COMMENTS: 109
12 Eye-Opening Thoughts About the Bailout's Defeat
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To help readers cut through the media overload, we've gathered together a dozen views from smart, alternative thinkers on the bailout, the politics surrounding its defeat and predictions about where the economy, and the government's actions, might go from here.
What Happened
There's been quite a bit of discussion about exactly what happened with the bailout bill ...
Robert Kuttner offers his views, along with some suggestions for the Democratic leadership looking forward ...
In refusing to provide enough votes to enact a bipartisan bailout bill, Republicans may well have done Democrats a favor. The Democratic leadership gave up several provisions that their members wanted, including more relief for homeowners. But the Republican leadership took the position that they had extracted all they could get, and GOP House members were now free to vote their consciences. In practice that meant listening to the uproar of constituent backlash against a bill that did much for Wall Street and little for the common American. So the easy Republican vote was "No."
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had been promised that 80 or 90 Republicans would vote for the bill. That way, both parties could share responsibility. But in the end, just 66 Republican votes materialized.
According to my sources, once Pelosi learned of the double-cross, she told the Democratic whips to make it a conscience vote on the Democratic side as well. With the likelihood of voter indignation and the strong possibility that this bill would not fix what was broken, Pelosi was not prepared to make this primarily a Democratic bill. Knowing that the Republicans were walking away from the deal, she held the roll call anyway, to make clear just whose failure this was.
When the vote came up short, she held it open a few minutes but made rounding up additional supporters the Republicans' problem. When the votes did not materialize, she banged the gavel, and the bill went down.
What now?
... The moment for this bill may have passed. Pelosi was also facing growing rebellion in Democratic ranks.
... Both parties will now go back to the drawing board -- and it is here that Republican calculations may have backfired, big time. For while many Republican legislators are posturing populist, they really don't have anything up their sleeves that is true to right-wing ideology, that will please angry taxpayers, and that will fix the problem. Vote No is not a program, and as the crisis deepens the vote will look increasingly cynical and opportunist.Veteran journalist Peggy Simpson writes about the partisan dynamics ...
Pelosi not only had to work for the Paulson plan, she had to immunize her own folks against a potential campaign crusade by GOP ideologues that this was "socialism, socialism, socialism," foisted off on the public by Democrats now in charge of both houses of Congress.
Voters, meanwhile, had been persuaded this was indeed a taxpayer bailout for the rich, not a rescue plan for the very financial structure of the country. Their calls to congressional members ranged from 100-1 against to 300-1 against ...
Pelosi said from the outset that many liberal Democrats would not budge from the opposition. She also continued the tradition of the late House Speaker Thomas "Tip" O'Neill of understanding that "all politics is local" and that if a vote would mean sure defeat back home, the member could get a pass.
Pelosi and her team told Boehner they could get between 125 and 140 Democrats and that Boehner and Blunt would need to find between 80 and 100 Republicans. That seemed feasible Sunday.
On Monday, Pelosi delivered, Boehner fell short ...
Boehner said Pelosi had chased away a dozen wavering Republicans when she gave a speech saying the vote on this unpalatable $700 billion rescue plan had been made necessary by eight years of Bush policies, including lax oversight on Wall Street ...
Pelosi could have skipped the partisan speech on the eve of the vote -- but she was still trying to rally reluctant Democrats to swallow the bitter medicine.
Few Republicans had been on the House floor to hear Pelosi's speech, and none reacted when they heard it. It was later, after the shocking setback of the vote itself, that GOP leaders seized on the Pelosi speech to rationalize their own failure.
Ultimately, however, the blame-Pelosi excuse didn't help against Boehner.
It made him look even weaker. He had gotten only a third of his House Republicans to back the bill, far short of what he had promised. ... It turns out that Boehner knew hours before the vote ... that Republicans would be far shy of their goal, which could spell defeat for the overall bill.
If Pelosi had known that, she might have delayed the vote. That might have alarmed the markets but probably wouldn't have spooked them the way the actual defeat did.David Brooks says that we're witnessing an epic failure of governance ...
This generation of political leaders is confronting a similar situation, and, so far, they have failed utterly and catastrophically to project any sense of authority, to give the world any reason to believe that this country is being governed. Instead, by rejecting the rescue package on Monday, they have made the psychological climate much worse.
George W. Bush is completely out of juice, having squandered his influence with Republicans as well as Democrats. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is a smart moneyman, but an inept legislator. He was told time and time again that House Republicans would not support his bill, and his response was to get down on bended knee before House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
House leaders of both parties got wrapped up in their own negotiations, but did it occur to any of them that it might be hard to pass a bill fairly described as a bailout to Wall Street? Was the media darling Barney Frank too busy to notice the 95 Democrats who opposed his bill? Pelosi's fiery speech at the crucial moment didn't actually kill this bill, but did she have to act like a Democratic fund-raiser at the most important moment of her career?
And let us recognize above all the 228 who voted no -- the authors of this revolt of the nihilists. They showed the world how much they detest their own leaders and the collected expertise of the Treasury and Fed. They did the momentarily popular thing, and if the country slides into a deep recession, they will have the time and leisure to watch public opinion shift against them.The Plan
Some of the brightest economic minds have weighed in on why they endorsed or opposed the plan, and some discussed what they'd do differently ...
David Cay Johnston asks some pertinent questions ...
Questions abound: Do we believe in markets, which can be volatile -- or only in managed markets biased by government policy to the upside? Or do we believe in corporate socialism?
Is our economy so fragile that it cannot withstand shocks? Or is it fundamentally sound, as Senator John McCain was declaring until just days ago? And if our economy really is fragile, just how will borrowing $700 billion more to pay for bad loans make things better for anyone but the lenders and some of their customers?
What assurance do we have that borrowing $700 billion will not make things worse? None.
Keep in mind a paper released last week by two economists at the International Monetary Fund, who studied 42 banking crises over the past 37 years. Their conclusions (not the IMF's) are: Bailouts often do not work, they often result in more bad practices, and they distort economies by transferring wealth from taxpayers to bankers and their customers.
Perhaps the dissolution of this bailout bill means that we will now get a serious look at just where the problem is, how pervasive or concentrated bank problems are, and whether there are less expensive options ...
Maybe we will also get answers to some hard questions. Like:
- Why was the CEO of Goldman Sachs in the room when government officials decided to bail out the insurer AIG, especially since Goldman has about $20 billion, half of its shareholder equity, at risk on AIG? Keep in mind that Treasury Secretary Paulson is the immediate former CEO of Goldman.
- Why was Lehman Brothers, a Goldman competitor, the only Wall Street firm in trouble so far left to collapse on its own? The Wall Street Journal reports today that it was the collapse of Lehman (which because of its structure may not have been an attractive firm for purchase) that "triggered the cash crunch around the globe."
- Has Treasury obtained from every bank the amount of its illiquid assets, which would tell us if the problems are concentrated at a few banks or are pervasive?
- Would a temporary provision in the bankruptcy code, allowing people with toxic mortgages to get their loans rewritten or pursued to foreclosure, be a cheaper and better alternative?
Disclosure, transparency, options -- those should be the issues in the next few days.Paul Krugman explains that the taxpayers wouldn't really be picking up that whole $700 billion tab, and suggests a different approach to the credit crunch ... "Where Will the Money Come From?"
In the end, the U.S. government will rescue the financial system -- not today or tomorrow, maybe not Thursday, but soon, and for the rest of our lives, or anyway until the next crisis.
But, people ask me, where will we get the money? Won't we have to borrow it from the Chinese?
Actually, no.
(To understand why), a real-world example: the rescue of Wachovia. The FDIC got Citi to take over Wachovia's assets and liabilities with a deal under which the feds limit the losses -- they will cover any losses on mortgage paper over $42 billion -- in return, basically, for receiving a share of ownership, in the form of warrants and preferred stock. No actual money changed hands, which illustrates a fundamental principle: recapitalization doesn't mean laying out real money, at least initially -- it just means having taxpayers take on some of the risk.
A large-scale recapitalization would probably take the form of a giant swap of debt for equity: The Treasury would issue several hundred billion dollars' worth of bonds, and give them to financial firms in return for preferred stock. The bonds wouldn't have to be sold to outside buyers -- they would simply be credited to firms' balance sheets.
The effect would be that if the financial firms did well, taxpayers would share in their good fortune via those stock holdings; if firms did badly, they could meet their obligations by selling some of those bonds, which would cut into the value of all their stock, including the stuff Uncle Sam owns. So as in the case of Wachovia, what's really happening is that the taxpayers are taking on some of the risk.
So is all this magic? No, over time Treasury has to pay interest and principal on the bonds it issues; the value of the bonds comes from the fact that people believe the U.S. government can do that ...James Galbraith thinks the bailout was the least-bad possibility, so he reluctantly endorsed it. But, like Krugman, he thinks there are better ways to skin this cat ...
The question now is, could the purposes of this bill be met with a smaller appropriation. In my view, the best way to answer that question is to ask: What problem does $700 billion solve? The answer to that is, we do not really know. On the face of it, the exposure to bad mortgage-backed securities is considerably larger; the purchase plan in the bill would inevitably bail out some inessential as well as essential investors and institutions, thus wasting a fraction of the resources; and we do not know the full extent to which banks need new capitalization in order to remain solvent. The reasonable presumption, therefore, is that TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) would buy time; one hears estimates that the authority would be used at a rate of $50 billion a month, though the basis for that estimate is not clear. A smaller appropriation would buy less time.
How much time is needed? There is in my view very little prospect that economic recovery will restore housing prices and personal incomes within a reasonable time -- that is, before the $700 billion runs out. Therefore, it seems to me unlikely that this issue will finish here; more will be needed at a later date. However, on the assumption that one can trust and monitor the actions of the Treasury to assure that it carries out its mandate in good faith, there is an argument for appropriating the full sum now: It will help ensure that the system will hold into next year. A smaller appropriation increases the risk of a major crisis in the relatively near term. By how much and when? No one can say.
If one does not trust the Treasury to act in good faith and in compliance with the spirit and letter of the monitoring and enforcement provisions, then of course there is no case for this bill ...
Whatever happens, if my analysis is correct, even if the bill is passed the issues will not go away. The $700 billion will permit parts of the banking system to be reorganized. I doubt it will cure an underlying problem of illiquid securities many times larger than that. I believe that as banking consolidation proceeds, alongside the decline and fall of the "shadow banking system," the fact that deposit insurance, regulation, disposition of bad assets and enforcement are the sensible way forward will become increasingly apparent. In short, I would do these things now if I could. But if they are not done now, they will still have to be done later, even if this bill is passed.John Hussman, of Hussman Funds, weighs in ...
However the final legislation is written, the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) being rushed through Congress will evidently be built around its single worst provision, which is that the Treasury will have authority to purchase distressed mortgage securities from U.S. financials ...
Does this transaction protect the institution against failure? No! If you buy the bad assets off the balance sheet at their market value, nothing changes on the liability side! You may have improved the "quality" of the balance sheet, but you've provided no additional capital. At best, you've allowed the bank to liquidate its assets more easily to meet continuing customer withdrawals in the vicious cycle described above.
The only way that buying the questionable assets will increase capital on the liability side of the balance sheet is if the Treasury overpays for them.
A better approach would be for the government to provide capital directly, in the form of a "super-bond," in an amount no greater than the debt to bondholders. The "super-bond" would be subordinate to customer liabilities, so it could be counted as capital for the purpose of capital requirements, and would be seen by customers as a legitimate cushion of protection. However, in the event of bankruptcy, it would have a senior claim in front of both stockholders and even senior bondholders. Do that, and you've actually got a mechanism to protect the financial system while at the same time protecting customers and taxpayers. Ideally, the super-bond accrues a relatively high rate of interest so that financials have an incentive to shift to private financing as soon as possible, but you would also defer the interest until the bank meets a minimal level of profitability to make sure that the financing doesn't strain the institution's liquidity.Floyd Norris, chief financial correspondent fro the New York Times, agrees that huge financial bailouts come with inherent risks ...
The banking industry is in trouble with or without this bailout. Its efforts to change accounting rules to hide its problems are sad and appalling. The defeated bill would have authorized the Securities and Exchange Commission to suspend the mark-to-market rule, which forced the banks to admit how badly they had gambled and lost. The S.E.C. has already yielded to political pressure and barred short-selling in financial stocks, so it is possible it would yield to the accounting pressure as well ...
Absent the defeated bailout, the government is picking off weak banks one by one, arranging takeovers (takeunders might be a better term) when they can. In both the Washington Mutual and Wachovia deals, the depositors are doing fine, while shareholders suffer. That discourages bank runs by depositors, which is good, but encourages what we will call "stock market runs" by shareholders of any bank that might be in the same league as those banks. (If your bank ever bragged about its mortgage lending, look out.)
The risk of a big bailout always was that it would make investors think the banks were in even worse trouble than they appeared to be. Henry M. Paulson Jr., the Treasury secretary, tried to structure this bailout as a purchase of assets, so that banks taking the money would not be tarnished by doing so. But the decision to force those banks to turn over equity may have killed that move, and the changes to be made in the bill now could well make it more punitive. That could be good for a sense of justice, but bad for containing the crisis.Where Do We Go from Here?
Dean Baker asks an important question: Even if one opposes the deal in its current form, at what point does inaction become deeply irresponsible?
The Democrats have made good progress in getting the Bush administration to move from the $700 billion blank check proposal that we saw last weekend. ... However, there is still much that is missing.
(This week's debacle) leaves the question of whether the Democrats can responsibly walk away from the bailout. This involves a tough call. The financial system was really shaken by the events of last week when Lehman Brothers went under and AIG was about to follow suit. However, Ben Bernanke and Henry Paulson were able to duct-tape things together with the cooperation of the other major central banks.
The financial markets remain extremely unsettled and more bad news is a virtual certainty, but Bernanke and Paulson have lots of duct tape at their disposal. The sort of financial breakdown that we all fear remains a possibility, but my bet is that they will be able to deal with whatever crises develop.
There is one other point worth considering in assessing the responsibility of a walk-away strategy. Suppose the Paulson plan goes through. It is virtually certain that the economy will weaken further and the number of foreclosures and people without jobs will continue to rise.
This is the fallout from a collapsing housing bubble. Families that have seen most of their home equity disappear will feel the need to cut back their consumption and increase their savings. We have a huge cohort of baby boomers at the edge of retirement, most of whom have accumulated almost no wealth during their working lifetime. When these families respond to their loss of home equity by cutting back their consumption it will deepen the recession.
In this context it might prove very important to have the resources needed to provide a substantial stimulus. In principle, even a $700 billion bailout package would not be so large as to preclude a further stimulus next year. However, there is no doubt that this bailout will make further stimulus much more difficult to sell politically. In this sense it is hard to view supporting a bad bailout package as the responsible course of action. While the bailout may lesson a presumably small risk of financial breakdown, it could have the effect of making the recession much longer and more painful than necessary. This would not be responsible.Sarah Anderson, Chuck Collins, Dedrick Muhammad and Sam Pizzigati from the Institute for Policy Studies argue that the tab for the bailout -- whatever its particulars at the end of the day -- should be picked up by Wall Street, and that the rest of the economy needs some relief as well. ...
Lawmakers in Congress appear to have assumed that the federal government will simply borrow more money to foot the bill for the bailout. The national debt ceiling will rise to a whopping $11.3 trillion, up from $8 trillion a year ago.
But this rush to borrowing merely shifts the bailout burden onto the backs of future taxpayers. Congress needs to change course -- and develop a "pay as we go" plan that makes Wall Street pay. The lion's share of bailout funding should come from the high-finance gamblers and the wealthy CEOs who have so profited from our casino economy.
Funding the Bailout: Basic Principles
- Wall Street and speculators should pay now for the mess they created.
- Instead of borrowing from the super-wealthy beneficiaries of the casino economy, we should tax them.
- Any bailout should stimulate the real economy with investments in Main Street, not just Wall Street.
Broadening the Bailout Dollars
The debate over the bailout has so far concentrated on the $700 billion purchase of "troubled assets" proposed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. A real "bailout" would also target the troubled households of working American families. A $200 billion "Main Street Stimulus Package" could bolster the real economy and those left vulnerable by the subprime mortgage meltdown.
This package should include:
- A $130 billion annual investment in renewable energy to stimulate good jobs anchored in local economies and reduce our dependency on oil.
- A $50 billion outlay to help keep people in foreclosed homes through refinancing and creating new homeownership and housing opportunities. These funds could also help those locked out of the American Dream to purchase homes through nonspeculative mortgage programs.
- A $20 billion aid package to states to address the squeeze on state and local government services that declining tax revenues are now forcing.
Robert Reich lays out some of the problems facing lawmakers at the height of an election season, and makes a prediction for this week ...
House leaders will schedule another vote as soon as they can convince twelve of the naysayers, from either party, to approve.
Wild card: angry voters who go to the polls in five weeks. Conservatives don't want government to take over the free market. Liberals don't want Wall Street fat-cats to get a free ride. And the more the public focuses on the bill, the angrier they become. (Polls show about a third of Americans in favor, a third opposed, and a third undecided; the percent in favor is growing slightly, but the percent against is growing even faster.)
Wild card on the other side: The Dow is dropping precipitously. Roughly half of all American families have some retirement money in the stock market. And even if they don't own shares of stock, an increasing number are feeling the pinch of an economy gradually grinding to a halt. (This week's employment report will not be very encouraging.)
Don't expect easier sailing in the Senate. Fewer than a third of the Senate is up for re-election on Nov. 4, but they're all hearing from angry constituents.
Prediction: A scaled-down bill will be enacted by the end of the week. It will provide the Treasury with a first installment of $150 billion. Treasury can use it to back Wall Street's bad debts with no-interest loans of up to two years, until the housing market rebounds. Or to invest in Wall Street houses directly, in exchange for stocks and stock warrants. There will be strict oversight. Congressional leaders will promise further installments, but with conditions calling for limits on salaries and relief to distressed homeowners.And Brad DeLong predicts that the government will have to limit investors' risk in the future ...
I don't believe that after this the price of risk will ever again become a free-market price, just as after the Great Depression the short-term price of liquidity -- the short-term interest rate -- ever became a free-market price. The federal government, in one form or another, is going to be in the business of insuring debt securities against steep declines in value. Securities that are not so insured will simply not be traded. What Fannie Mae did for "conforming" home loans, the Treasury or some other government agency will do for derivative securities. It will offer insurance, charge for that insurance, and supervise and oversee financiers much more strictly.
... The market fundamentalists in other sectors will need to be quiet for quite a while. We have just seen financial markets rife with moral hazard, agency and adverse selection problems crash spectacularly. Is this a situation in which we should move health care -- also rife with moral hazard, agency and adverse selection problems -- toward a free market configuration? No. Market regulation needs to be smart. But first market regulation needs to be.So much for the experts. Use the comments to share your own views.
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Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 1, 2008 12:33 AM
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"We can do better," says DeFazio. "We should start again on a new package."
That's exactly what the Oregon populist is doing with a new proposal, the "No BAILOUTS Act" (Bringing Accountability, Increased Liquidity, Oversight, and Upholding Taxpayer Security). Introduced Tuesday with co-sponsorship from some of the most outspoken critics of the Paulson machinations – including Ohio Democrat Marcy Kaptur, a leader of the anti-bailout movement in Congress – the measure would impose a securities tax equivalent to one quarter of one percent of profits and empower the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to deal more effectively with bank failures.
"The plan is based on a proposal made last week by former FDIC chair William Isaac, who recalled that in the 1980s Congress enacted a "net worth certificate" program – which allowed the federal agency to shore up the capital of weak banks to give them more time to resolve their problems – and the FDIC resolved a $100 billion insolvency in savings banks for a total cost of less than $2 billion.
"It was a big success and could work in the current climate," argued Isaac. "
The No Bailout Act ...
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Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Oct 1, 2008 1:18 AM
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What a scary and yet exciting time to be alive!
One more thing. If you are an undecided voter, learn the truth about Old Man McCain and his so-called "heroic" war record) by clicking on: Vote Against McCain (one of the HOTTEST anti-McCain sites on the Web)
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Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 1, 2008 1:28 AM
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Stiglitz " the financial institutions have all these toxic products -- which they created -- and since no one trusts anyone about their value, no one is willing to lend to anyone else. The Paulson approach solves this by passing the risk to us, the taxpayer -- and for no return.
The second problem is that there is a big and increasing hole in bank balance sheets -- banks lent money to people beyond their ability to repay -- and no financial alchemy will fix that. If, as Paulson claims, banks get paid fairly for their lousy mortgages and the complex products in which they are embedded, the hole in their balance sheet will remain."
The bailout artists will be back for more installments at $700 billion each to fix the problems Stiglitz has outlined. Anyone who tells you that the current plan will pay for itself or make a profit is a liar, a fool or both.
This whole assault on our wallets has been orchestrated by Paulson, The Fed and the Wall Street Bankers. Over 90% of the toxic paper can be found on the books of those same Wall Street Banks. Europe and Asia have largely written theirs off and are now screaming at America to do the same but the Wall Street Banks want us, the American Taxpayer to pay for their losses!
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Posted by: skizum on Oct 1, 2008 2:37 AM
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We need to keep a bit of a common sense perspective here. Our entire economic system is just a virtual construct for managing the flow of goods and services. The problems the markets face now is the abstract concept of DEBT. This DEBT is threatening channels through which the (re)distribution of wealth flows. However, if we completely remove the economic construct, all the natural resources, goods, services, people and houses etc. that were there yesterday will still be there tomorrow. We just need to find a better way to manage it all.
I'm no financial expert but it seems logical to me that any immediate solutions for a stimulus or bailout plan should:
• favor the homeowners who are most at risk
• identify what industry mechanisms/laws/people enabled our current economic debacle and no longer rely on them
• inject the minimum amount of liquidity into the system to keep it stable while we reevaluate and redesign the fundamentals of our economic construct.
The bigger challenge here is that our current economic construct was set into chaos by unleashing the power of human aggression and dominance loose. Any truly effective reevaluation, regulation and redesign of our economic systems must deal with understanding these and other motivations of basic human behavior. Otherwise, human behavior and ingenuity will continue to cyclically recreate a new set of loopholes and rationalizations leading us into another imbalanced end game.
Unless our economic systems are based on a more fundamental understanding and balancing of our basic universal needs, as humans, then we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of inequity and unbalance until the resulting consequences leave life on our planet unsustainable.
I, for one, am not ready to yield, no even worse, give in to the notion that the financial constructs of the world are the bottom line of determining the conditions of human existence. Clearly, our current system of capitalism is not meant to create sustainable balance, equity, peace and the pursuit of happiness...but we can create one that does if it is based on those principals.
So far, the die has not been cast in this latest round of political drama, in large part because of the voice of the masses; let's at least continue to keep that up.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 1, 2008 3:45 AM
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Ever notice that when it comes to things like SCHIP, they let it go but when it comes to bailing out Wall $treet, oil drilling, war spending, terri schiavo, and other rightwing shit they actually go out of their ways to pass it? Main Street had better realize that they elected pols which gave Wall $treet the power to FUCK and RAPE Main Street !
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Posted by: lizard010 on Oct 1, 2008 3:51 AM
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Posted by: Drume on Oct 1, 2008 4:11 AM
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Alternatively, you may phone the United States Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121. A switchboard operator will connect you directly with the Senate office you request.
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Oct 1, 2008 4:20 AM
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http://www.senate.gov/
general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Oct 1, 2008 4:22 AM
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There must be a small number of individuals responsible for this financial fiasco: follow the money and the paper trail. Hold these ultra-rich financially responsible, including our corrupt President and Vice President. Monday came and went, and hell did not freeze over. What's the hurry? The hurry is that this is a robbery, and the robber barons have to make a clean getaway!
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Posted by: chlamor on Oct 1, 2008 4:30 AM
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By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted September 26, 2008.
It's 'empire spending,' not 'defense spending.'
On Wednesday, the House passed a mammoth defense bill by a 392-39 vote. It's expected to clear the Senate with little difficulty next week.
It was part of a trillion-dollar stop-gap measure to keep programs running through next March, allowing lawmakers to skip town without passing a final budget. The Associated Press reports, "The legislation came together in a remarkably secret process that concentrated decision-making power in the hands of a few lawmakers."
In keeping with the tradition of recent years, Bush held a gun to his own head and threatened to pull the trigger if his demands weren't met. According to the AP, "To earn President Bush's signature rather than a veto, House and Senate negotiators dropped several provisions he opposed. They include a ban on private interrogators in U.S. military detention facilities and what would have amounted to congressional veto power over a security pact with Iraq."
In other words, Congress also maintained recent tradition, swearing not to give Bush a blank check and then whipping out their pens and signing a blank check.
The number that the House sent to the Senate for "defense" -- $612 billion for the coming year -- is eye-popping. Imagine a stack of 612,000 million-dollar bills. Quite a pile.
That number's a sham, however. The budget calls for $68.6 billion for the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan in 2009. War costs this year totaled $182 billion, according to the Federation of American Scientists.
The House passed the Brobdingnagian spending measure 11 months after George W. Bush vetoed a bill -- one passed with a lot of bipartisan support -- that would have added $7 billion measly dollars per year to the State Children's Health Insurance Program, covering 4 million more uninsured children. You'd be hard-pressed to find a clearer sign of national psychosis.
Google title for link.
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» RE: emember this article?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: emember this article?
Posted by: JSquercia
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Oct 1, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» fear mode
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: I Agree With Anderson, Collins, Muhammad and Pizzigati...
Posted by: mopar1938
» RE: I Agree With Anderson, Collins, Muhammad and Pizzigati...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I Agree With Anderson, Collins, Muhammad and Pizzigati...
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Oct 1, 2008 4:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once Paulson goes, then the "mark-to-market" accounting rules can be temporarily suspended to give the markets some breathing time. Then it's up to Congress to step back, review the plans put forth by non-partisan, professional economists, and finally decide what's best for the country. Remember how the Patriot Act was passed in a fit of panic? That's what this administration likes to do--act before they think. It's time to reverse that process.
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» RE: Time to step back
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: imors on Oct 1, 2008 4:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: it's the economy, stupid?
Posted by: Drume
» RE: it's the economy, stupid?
Posted by: BigRon
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Oct 1, 2008 5:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Fascist parasite corporate crime rule the "Fed" represents is the core cancer behind all the smoke and mirror BS at a Washington-MSM axis. An ongoing Ponzi sham that political stooges have tiptoed around for a hundred years. That said, tinkering at the margin will only delay the inevitable. And the inevitable will be a relentless nightmare absent real reform.
Here's the skinny on the a private Fascist bank monopoly "Federal Reserve" Corp (never federal with less than no reserves):
The Federal Reserve sham basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to “FED” banks. The “FED” creates money out of thin air, then loans it back to the government [ i.e. the people ] charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt.
“I believe that [private cartel] banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the [cartel] banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the [private cartel] banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
PRESIDENT THOMAS JEFFERSON (a founder of America on private cartel rule over his future nation. In a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin, 1802. Published 1809)
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» Abolish the "Federal" Reserve!
Posted by: edgeofnowhere
» RE: Abolish the "Federal" Reserve!
Posted by: Lauren
» Abolishing the "Federal" Reserve won't change a thing. The Fed has little control over the economy
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: milltom on Oct 1, 2008 5:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lorenbliss on Oct 1, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile the fact that no enactable bailout proposal includes bankruptcy and foreclosure relief underscores again the infinitely vicious pro-ruling-class, anti-working-class bias -- indeed treachery -- of the people we working class folk elected to represent us.
Which leads to the terrifying probability that once the working class recognizes the magnitude by which we have been betrayed, we will stay home from the polls in droves.
As a result, the Skinnerian, rule-by-behavior-modification fascist (Democrat) presidential candidate could lose, and -- especially given the disciplined conformity of the fundamentalists and evangelicals -- the theocratic, rule-by-maximum-brutality fascist (Republican) candidate could win.
Thus the nation would plunge the final distance into genuine JesuNazi tyranny, effectively becoming the Fourth Reich. Free-thinking women, unpopular minorities, atheists, agnostics, Pagans and other "heathens" or "abominations" would be forced into the role of scapegoat/public enemy imposed on the Third Reich's Jews and savagely persecuted accordingly. Meanwhile a foreign policy unequivocally based on global conquest -- "Conquer the World for Christ" -- would lead to thermonuclear war, undoubtedly with Russia and/or China, which would extinguish all human life on the planet, quite possibly reducing it to an ecological barren unsuitable for life of any recognizable kind.
All this is at stake not because of the economic crisis per se but because the Democrats are too greedy to do anything for us working class folk -- in return for which we shrug our shoulders, mutter the ultimate response of the truly hopeless (“whatever”) and cast our ballots not into the ballot box but into the trash.
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» RE: Big Danger in Bailout Trickle-Down Economics
Posted by: jon B
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Posted by: JohnHKennedy Denver CO on Oct 1, 2008 5:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Pelosi took Impeachment Off The Table, she told all of the voters and all of the World that an election was more important than standing up for the Constitution and the Rule Of Law.
Pelosi has lost the respect of her own party.
My Democrats have lost the moral authority to accomplish much of any anything.
Standing up to Bush and Cheney is the last thing they will do. Doing the right by the voters on the bailout is doubtful. They will do the politically expedient thing of course covering their own butts for the election.
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» RE: By Ignoring impeachment, My Dems have lost the moral courage to save America
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: By Ignoring impeachment, My Dems have lost the moral courage to save America
Posted by: Ethical1
» That's why my wife and I are very angry with this party and can't wait to vote for Ralph.
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: the fairness fella on Oct 1, 2008 5:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, irrespective of how liquidity is achieved in the body of the bailout, the top of the bailout, the preamble, must be about consequences.
The management of any company needing bailout must accept heavy personal fines in order for their entity to qualify. The size of the fines would be a function of the amount of help the company needs.
If the public knew that CEO X was facing a 20 million dollar fine, this would do two things.
1. Make sure the aid is really needed because top management is going to do everything it can to avoid the fines and the stigma attached.
Thus, if there is any other way out, fixing the mess themselves, they'll be highly motivated to find it.
Secondly it sends a warning to future shady operators that they are on a very dangerous path....with consequences.
This is a plan every citizen can understand and which appeals to our basic ideas of fairness. Most people are not assessing the bailout ideologically. They want something which feels right and prudent.
That's the top. The tail of the new bailout has to be help for those duped into risky mortgages.
If necessary, their debts have to be either forgiven, or restructured in ways which make repayment possible by poorer folks in a stressed enconomy
Top and tailed like this, the public should then rapidly swing behind the revised bailout
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» RE: thefairnessfella
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: thefairnessfella
Posted by: Ethical1
» RE: sorry about your parents
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffreytaos on Oct 1, 2008 6:13 AM
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Posted by: mopar1938 on Oct 1, 2008 6:37 AM
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I think this bail out problem should be decided by the Americn people and put it on the upcoming election on 11/4/2008. That is the only way we will find out what the country wants and not depend on the politictions and their self intrests.
It is about time we take control of our own destiny and not rely on people who will do what they want and not listen to the voters.
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Posted by: Stogie on Oct 1, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Greenback's Value Spiralling Towards Zero
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Greenback's Value Spiralling Towards Zero
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: crazy carlos on Oct 1, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Carlos
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Posted by: phindrup on Oct 1, 2008 7:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It certainly hasn't done much the citizens of the US, and has been utterly disastrous for all those countries where US ideology has been forced upon them via the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank.
If this forces the closure of US overseas bases and causes US citizens to take a real hard look at themselves, their communities and debt/greed driven existence then it will have been a blessing for the world at large.
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» RE: worth saving?
Posted by: BigRon
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Posted by: craigandrew on Oct 1, 2008 7:27 AM
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Have a nice day C:)
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Posted by: pearce on Oct 1, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By David Swanson
SNIP:
I want a bill immediately to ban predatory mortgage lending, ban states
from preventing cities from restricting predatory lending, and commit
the federal government to allowing states full freedom to restrict
predatory lending.
I want a bill establishing a maximum wage at 10 times the minimum wage,
and including all forms of income in that calculation (and raising the
minimum wage how ever much required to pass the bill). I want the tax
system created by that bill to pay for any necessary bailouts, and want
such bailouts enacted and overseen by Congress.
I also want a Tobin tax on all transactions in finance, insurance, and
real estate, including currency transactions.
I want Congress to haul fraudulent bankers into Washington and force
them to testify, fire them without compensation as part of any bailouts,
and refer them to the Justice Department for prosecution.
I want serious regulation of Wall Street.
I want a five-year moratorium on foreclosures, and a bailout of
homeowners equal to any bailout of bankers.
And, finally, I want $700 billion invested in green energy jobs
immediately, to be paid for by a tax on carbon emissions.
In fact, I would like to see all of these steps included in a single
bill called the "Honest Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008."
Somebody explain to me why that wouldn't be a good move for our economy
and a smart political step for those who propose it.
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» RE: "WHAT I WANT"
Posted by: boing007
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 1, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JIff
Online Privacy Center
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» RE: Wall Street - can go to hell!
Posted by: symcokid
» Wall $treet deserves the DEATH PENALTY as do pols voting to bail them out !
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: eeezzz on Oct 1, 2008 8:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Obama is walking right into their trap
Posted by: jon B
» RE: Obama is walking right into their trap
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: ashbaines on Oct 1, 2008 8:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The NEXT DAY - Bush signs a $630 billion dollar spending bill... WHAT? we are supposed to think it's the same money?
And now we are still hearing about the $700 billion bailout.
They've spent 1 TRILLION, 260 BILLION in TWO DAYS !?!?!? and they want MORE????
Why are these men still breathing? -- Where are the gallows? the pitchforks?--the Jacobins??? --
NOt a PEEP anywhere but Crooks & Liars and Bloomberg.... not a fucking peep!!
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» RE: THERE WAS NO DEFEAT YOU IDIOTS
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: symcokid on Oct 1, 2008 8:53 AM
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» RE: No matter what, nothing they do is going to matter.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Oct 1, 2008 9:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about dividing $700 billion equally amongst every citizen 18 or older. I could use that $3000+. I need insulation and a heat pump for my home. I'm tired of being cold and getting sick because of it. Why not help us less fortunate people instead of giving money to people who already have more than they really know what to do with it? This is sickening!
Hell, I can't even really afford glass to build solar heat collectors but these damn thieving politicians will let me freeze so somebody like paulson can make millions of more dollars. When these parasites on Wall Street start freezing in the winter, wonder how they're going to feed themselves, have no medical insurance, and can't afford to see a doctor, then maybe we should bail them out.
How did these people get so vile?????
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» RE: I want my check.
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: grkjr on Oct 1, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VOTE FOR INTEGRITY.. VOTE FOR NADER.
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Posted by: dogwhisperer on Oct 1, 2008 10:07 AM
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» RE: Speed bump in the path of the Bailout Juggernaut
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 1, 2008 12:48 PM
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Posted by: JSquercia on Oct 1, 2008 1:48 PM
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 1, 2008 2:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under Presidential Directive/HSPD-20, a single National Continuity Coordinator is responsible for coordinating the development and implementation of Bush's Federal continuity policies. Currently, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is the National Continuity Coordinator...'
All of the tools are in place for the administration to declare a national emergency and rule from the oval office by decree with no input from congress and it's all legal. The people who enabled it are the same people you are looking to for leadership.
I'm not saying it will happen, but it's never been more possible. Time to revisit the rise of the Nazis pre 1939 for clues. They didn't take it seriously until it was too late.
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» RE: National Emergency as Pretext For Police State?
Posted by: Von
» BINGO! GIVE THE MAN A CUPIE DOLL!
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Pretext For Police State? Thanks for saying it...
Posted by: snick
» Check This One Out Too
Posted by: InsertNameHere
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Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 1, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democrats.com reports that this version of the bailout plan has an additional item:
"So how did Congressional leaders respond to their defeat? They made the bill worse by adding $100 bilion in tax breaks favorng the rich. They didn't just put lipstick on the pig, they added pearls!"
Talk about insults.
Toll-free numbers for Capitol Hill switchboard:
1-800-473-6711
1-800-828-0498
Toll number:
202-224-3121
FILIBUSTER??
They also remind us that it would take only one populist Senator to mount a filibuster.
Their suggestions:
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Jon Tester (D-MT)
Jim Webb (D-VA)
Ron Weyden (D-VA)
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» RE: CALL YOUR SENATORS! THE NEW PLAN IS EVEN WORSE!
Posted by: Drume
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Posted by: cbishopp on Oct 1, 2008 2:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we vote against it then the men who control our currency (a slap in the face of the constitution to have anyone but the government print money) close down capital markets, stop lending, call in debts, and take back all the property and possessions which were not theirs in the first place.
This is a sham and a travesty but our officials know that if the fed called in the debt we owe for the printing of our own currency it would bankrupt the country immediately. That is of no value to them so let's give them...oh, how about 700 Billion! Is that enough? Will that ensure slavery for at least a generation if not longer?
Call your senators, call your representatives but it won't stop the bankers from breaking your back as soon as we try to assert ourselves.
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Posted by: jooljetkmae on Oct 1, 2008 2:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right now I'm so disgusted with the Democratic Party leadership that I don't care if they lose the Congress. They deserve to lose. I think Obama wins the White House, but he might find himself with a Republican Congress thanks to the political spinelessness of the Democratic leadership in Congress.
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Posted by: zrants on Oct 1, 2008 4:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
TAKE THE TIME - The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 is an improvement over the original Paulson plan. We have time to perfect the plan further.
LOAN THE MONEY - Buying questionable properties requires setting values on unknown properties, and means taking on unknown debt as well. Given the choice between loaning cash or bailing out, loaning seems the best, least risky choice. Congress can determine what to do with the profits when they materialize.
HOUSING VALUES - As a California resident who watched housing prices spiral out of reach for years, I have mixed feelings of relief that real estate prices are falling, and sympathy for owners of the over-priced property stuck with bad loans. We need control on both prices and interest rates. Surely someone in Congress can figure out how to protect the interests of both Main Street and Wall Street.
REGULATE - We need to re-install the regulatory systems that have been dismantled. Laying off large numbers of regulators to make government smaller and cheaper has resulted in unsafe products and a financial system out of control. We need a regulatory system that protects the rights of US citizens, not corporations.
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 1, 2008 4:49 PM
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» RE: Ha!
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: encinalito on Oct 1, 2008 4:51 PM
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Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 1, 2008 5:31 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with Stiglitz that we are not likely to go over the edge. But I also agree that it looks like we are in for a long, hard haul to dig ourselves out of this hole.
Anyone who was paying attention and who was not invested in the scams being run on us could see that it could not continue forever. When ruled by "Take the money and run" it doesn't need to go on longer than it takes to salt yours away.
We got a lot of houses built. We need a lot of houses. Whether we can reconcile what we did with what we need will depend on how much it hurts. A McMansion parts into a fourplex very nicely. And they are in nice neighborhoods, too.
We need protection for those on the fringe, and with the welfare masacre under Clinton, all that was left was jobs. With jobs going the way of the passenger pigeon, we better hope she is a phoenix and will rise again.
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Posted by: MSharp on Oct 1, 2008 9:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
spending on her waist-full habits.
Don't you love the vernacular "bailout"
and "rescue"?
None of these can be done to a gambler
hotly intent on letting it ride.
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Posted by: wildbill on Oct 1, 2008 11:56 PM
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Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 1, 2008 12:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We can do better," says DeFazio. "We should start again on a new package."
That's exactly what the Oregon populist is doing with a new proposal, the "No BAILOUTS Act" (Bringing Accountability, Increased Liquidity, Oversight, and Upholding Taxpayer Security). Introduced Tuesday with co-sponsorship from some of the most outspoken critics of the Paulson machinations – including Ohio Democrat Marcy Kaptur, a leader of the anti-bailout movement in Congress – the measure would impose a securities tax equivalent to one quarter of one percent of profits and empower the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to deal more effectively with bank failures.
"The plan is based on a proposal made last week by former FDIC chair William Isaac, who recalled that in the 1980s Congress enacted a "net worth certificate" program – which allowed the federal agency to shore up the capital of weak banks to give them more time to resolve their problems – and the FDIC resolved a $100 billion insolvency in savings banks for a total cost of less than $2 billion.
"It was a big success and could work in the current climate," argued Isaac. "
The No Bailout Act ...
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» RE: The House Democrats Have a Plan: The No Bailout Act ...
Posted by: Drume
» RE: The House Democrats Have a Plan: The No Bailout Act ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: The House Democrats Have a Plan: The No Bailout Act ...
Posted by: ozonehole
» RE: The House Democrats Have a Plan: The No Bailout Act ...
Posted by: Drume
» RE: The House Democrats Have a Plan: The No Bailout Act ...
Posted by: Drume
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Oct 1, 2008 1:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a scary and yet exciting time to be alive!
One more thing. If you are an undecided voter, learn the truth about Old Man McCain and his so-called "heroic" war record) by clicking on: Vote Against McCain (one of the HOTTEST anti-McCain sites on the Web)
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» Senate Phone Number
Posted by: Drume
» I'M A DECIDED VOTER
Posted by: hoorah
» RE: Odd bedfellows...in Wonderland
Posted by: suejim@gate.net
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Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 1, 2008 1:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stiglitz " the financial institutions have all these toxic products -- which they created -- and since no one trusts anyone about their value, no one is willing to lend to anyone else. The Paulson approach solves this by passing the risk to us, the taxpayer -- and for no return.
The second problem is that there is a big and increasing hole in bank balance sheets -- banks lent money to people beyond their ability to repay -- and no financial alchemy will fix that. If, as Paulson claims, banks get paid fairly for their lousy mortgages and the complex products in which they are embedded, the hole in their balance sheet will remain."
The bailout artists will be back for more installments at $700 billion each to fix the problems Stiglitz has outlined. Anyone who tells you that the current plan will pay for itself or make a profit is a liar, a fool or both.
This whole assault on our wallets has been orchestrated by Paulson, The Fed and the Wall Street Bankers. Over 90% of the toxic paper can be found on the books of those same Wall Street Banks. Europe and Asia have largely written theirs off and are now screaming at America to do the same but the Wall Street Banks want us, the American Taxpayer to pay for their losses!
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» All for nothing
Posted by: jon B
» RE: All for nothing
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Paulson, The Fed and Wall Street Hold America Hostage ...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Paulson, The Fed and Wall Street Hold America Hostage ...
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: skizum on Oct 1, 2008 2:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to keep a bit of a common sense perspective here. Our entire economic system is just a virtual construct for managing the flow of goods and services. The problems the markets face now is the abstract concept of DEBT. This DEBT is threatening channels through which the (re)distribution of wealth flows. However, if we completely remove the economic construct, all the natural resources, goods, services, people and houses etc. that were there yesterday will still be there tomorrow. We just need to find a better way to manage it all.
I'm no financial expert but it seems logical to me that any immediate solutions for a stimulus or bailout plan should:
• favor the homeowners who are most at risk
• identify what industry mechanisms/laws/people enabled our current economic debacle and no longer rely on them
• inject the minimum amount of liquidity into the system to keep it stable while we reevaluate and redesign the fundamentals of our economic construct.
The bigger challenge here is that our current economic construct was set into chaos by unleashing the power of human aggression and dominance loose. Any truly effective reevaluation, regulation and redesign of our economic systems must deal with understanding these and other motivations of basic human behavior. Otherwise, human behavior and ingenuity will continue to cyclically recreate a new set of loopholes and rationalizations leading us into another imbalanced end game.
Unless our economic systems are based on a more fundamental understanding and balancing of our basic universal needs, as humans, then we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of inequity and unbalance until the resulting consequences leave life on our planet unsustainable.
I, for one, am not ready to yield, no even worse, give in to the notion that the financial constructs of the world are the bottom line of determining the conditions of human existence. Clearly, our current system of capitalism is not meant to create sustainable balance, equity, peace and the pursuit of happiness...but we can create one that does if it is based on those principals.
So far, the die has not been cast in this latest round of political drama, in large part because of the voice of the masses; let's at least continue to keep that up.
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» RE: That's why I'm voting for Eugene E Ruyle
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 1, 2008 3:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever notice that when it comes to things like SCHIP, they let it go but when it comes to bailing out Wall $treet, oil drilling, war spending, terri schiavo, and other rightwing shit they actually go out of their ways to pass it? Main Street had better realize that they elected pols which gave Wall $treet the power to FUCK and RAPE Main Street !
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» Terri Schiavo and the Declining Price of Oil
Posted by: stellabloo
» RE: Terri Schiavo and the Declining Price of Oil
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Don't look now but ... to solve congress...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Don't look now but ... to solve congress...
Posted by: BigRon
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Posted by: lizard010 on Oct 1, 2008 3:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Drume on Oct 1, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternatively, you may phone the United States Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121. A switchboard operator will connect you directly with the Senate office you request.
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» RE: Guys, the Senate Votes Today
Posted by: djnoll
» Set up a "politics" section on your computer
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Oct 1, 2008 4:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.senate.gov/
general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Oct 1, 2008 4:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There must be a small number of individuals responsible for this financial fiasco: follow the money and the paper trail. Hold these ultra-rich financially responsible, including our corrupt President and Vice President. Monday came and went, and hell did not freeze over. What's the hurry? The hurry is that this is a robbery, and the robber barons have to make a clean getaway!
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» Here's How - Call Now (Senate Phone Number)
Posted by: Drume
» RE: Isn't This White Collar Crime?
Posted by: jon B
» RE: Isn't This White Collar Crime? Absolutely!
Posted by: Lauren
» Name thy crime
Posted by: jon B
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Posted by: chlamor on Oct 1, 2008 4:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted September 26, 2008.
It's 'empire spending,' not 'defense spending.'
On Wednesday, the House passed a mammoth defense bill by a 392-39 vote. It's expected to clear the Senate with little difficulty next week.
It was part of a trillion-dollar stop-gap measure to keep programs running through next March, allowing lawmakers to skip town without passing a final budget. The Associated Press reports, "The legislation came together in a remarkably secret process that concentrated decision-making power in the hands of a few lawmakers."
In keeping with the tradition of recent years, Bush held a gun to his own head and threatened to pull the trigger if his demands weren't met. According to the AP, "To earn President Bush's signature rather than a veto, House and Senate negotiators dropped several provisions he opposed. They include a ban on private interrogators in U.S. military detention facilities and what would have amounted to congressional veto power over a security pact with Iraq."
In other words, Congress also maintained recent tradition, swearing not to give Bush a blank check and then whipping out their pens and signing a blank check.
The number that the House sent to the Senate for "defense" -- $612 billion for the coming year -- is eye-popping. Imagine a stack of 612,000 million-dollar bills. Quite a pile.
That number's a sham, however. The budget calls for $68.6 billion for the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan in 2009. War costs this year totaled $182 billion, according to the Federation of American Scientists.
The House passed the Brobdingnagian spending measure 11 months after George W. Bush vetoed a bill -- one passed with a lot of bipartisan support -- that would have added $7 billion measly dollars per year to the State Children's Health Insurance Program, covering 4 million more uninsured children. You'd be hard-pressed to find a clearer sign of national psychosis.
Google title for link.
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» RE: emember this article?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: emember this article?
Posted by: JSquercia
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Oct 1, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» fear mode
Posted by: socialpsych
» RE: I Agree With Anderson, Collins, Muhammad and Pizzigati...
Posted by: mopar1938
» RE: I Agree With Anderson, Collins, Muhammad and Pizzigati...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I Agree With Anderson, Collins, Muhammad and Pizzigati...
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: Democritus on Oct 1, 2008 4:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once Paulson goes, then the "mark-to-market" accounting rules can be temporarily suspended to give the markets some breathing time. Then it's up to Congress to step back, review the plans put forth by non-partisan, professional economists, and finally decide what's best for the country. Remember how the Patriot Act was passed in a fit of panic? That's what this administration likes to do--act before they think. It's time to reverse that process.
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» RE: Time to step back
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: imors on Oct 1, 2008 4:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: it's the economy, stupid?
Posted by: Drume
» RE: it's the economy, stupid?
Posted by: BigRon
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Oct 1, 2008 5:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Fascist parasite corporate crime rule the "Fed" represents is the core cancer behind all the smoke and mirror BS at a Washington-MSM axis. An ongoing Ponzi sham that political stooges have tiptoed around for a hundred years. That said, tinkering at the margin will only delay the inevitable. And the inevitable will be a relentless nightmare absent real reform.
Here's the skinny on the a private Fascist bank monopoly "Federal Reserve" Corp (never federal with less than no reserves):
The Federal Reserve sham basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to “FED” banks. The “FED” creates money out of thin air, then loans it back to the government [ i.e. the people ] charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt.
“I believe that [private cartel] banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the [cartel] banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the [private cartel] banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
PRESIDENT THOMAS JEFFERSON (a founder of America on private cartel rule over his future nation. In a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin, 1802. Published 1809)
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» Abolish the "Federal" Reserve!
Posted by: edgeofnowhere
» RE: Abolish the "Federal" Reserve!
Posted by: Lauren
» Abolishing the "Federal" Reserve won't change a thing. The Fed has little control over the economy
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: milltom on Oct 1, 2008 5:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lorenbliss on Oct 1, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile the fact that no enactable bailout proposal includes bankruptcy and foreclosure relief underscores again the infinitely vicious pro-ruling-class, anti-working-class bias -- indeed treachery -- of the people we working class folk elected to represent us.
Which leads to the terrifying probability that once the working class recognizes the magnitude by which we have been betrayed, we will stay home from the polls in droves.
As a result, the Skinnerian, rule-by-behavior-modification fascist (Democrat) presidential candidate could lose, and -- especially given the disciplined conformity of the fundamentalists and evangelicals -- the theocratic, rule-by-maximum-brutality fascist (Republican) candidate could win.
Thus the nation would plunge the final distance into genuine JesuNazi tyranny, effectively becoming the Fourth Reich. Free-thinking women, unpopular minorities, atheists, agnostics, Pagans and other "heathens" or "abominations" would be forced into the role of scapegoat/public enemy imposed on the Third Reich's Jews and savagely persecuted accordingly. Meanwhile a foreign policy unequivocally based on global conquest -- "Conquer the World for Christ" -- would lead to thermonuclear war, undoubtedly with Russia and/or China, which would extinguish all human life on the planet, quite possibly reducing it to an ecological barren unsuitable for life of any recognizable kind.
All this is at stake not because of the economic crisis per se but because the Democrats are too greedy to do anything for us working class folk -- in return for which we shrug our shoulders, mutter the ultimate response of the truly hopeless (“whatever”) and cast our ballots not into the ballot box but into the trash.
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» RE: Big Danger in Bailout Trickle-Down Economics
Posted by: jon B
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Posted by: JohnHKennedy Denver CO on Oct 1, 2008 5:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Pelosi took Impeachment Off The Table, she told all of the voters and all of the World that an election was more important than standing up for the Constitution and the Rule Of Law.
Pelosi has lost the respect of her own party.
My Democrats have lost the moral authority to accomplish much of any anything.
Standing up to Bush and Cheney is the last thing they will do. Doing the right by the voters on the bailout is doubtful. They will do the politically expedient thing of course covering their own butts for the election.
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» RE: By Ignoring impeachment, My Dems have lost the moral courage to save America
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: By Ignoring impeachment, My Dems have lost the moral courage to save America
Posted by: Ethical1
» That's why my wife and I are very angry with this party and can't wait to vote for Ralph.
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: the fairness fella on Oct 1, 2008 5:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, irrespective of how liquidity is achieved in the body of the bailout, the top of the bailout, the preamble, must be about consequences.
The management of any company needing bailout must accept heavy personal fines in order for their entity to qualify. The size of the fines would be a function of the amount of help the company needs.
If the public knew that CEO X was facing a 20 million dollar fine, this would do two things.
1. Make sure the aid is really needed because top management is going to do everything it can to avoid the fines and the stigma attached.
Thus, if there is any other way out, fixing the mess themselves, they'll be highly motivated to find it.
Secondly it sends a warning to future shady operators that they are on a very dangerous path....with consequences.
This is a plan every citizen can understand and which appeals to our basic ideas of fairness. Most people are not assessing the bailout ideologically. They want something which feels right and prudent.
That's the top. The tail of the new bailout has to be help for those duped into risky mortgages.
If necessary, their debts have to be either forgiven, or restructured in ways which make repayment possible by poorer folks in a stressed enconomy
Top and tailed like this, the public should then rapidly swing behind the revised bailout
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» RE: thefairnessfella
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: thefairnessfella
Posted by: Ethical1
» RE: sorry about your parents
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: jeffreytaos on Oct 1, 2008 6:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: mopar1938 on Oct 1, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this bail out problem should be decided by the Americn people and put it on the upcoming election on 11/4/2008. That is the only way we will find out what the country wants and not depend on the politictions and their self intrests.
It is about time we take control of our own destiny and not rely on people who will do what they want and not listen to the voters.
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Posted by: Stogie on Oct 1, 2008 7:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Greenback's Value Spiralling Towards Zero
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Greenback's Value Spiralling Towards Zero
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: crazy carlos on Oct 1, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Carlos
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Posted by: phindrup on Oct 1, 2008 7:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It certainly hasn't done much the citizens of the US, and has been utterly disastrous for all those countries where US ideology has been forced upon them via the International Monetary Fund or the World Bank.
If this forces the closure of US overseas bases and causes US citizens to take a real hard look at themselves, their communities and debt/greed driven existence then it will have been a blessing for the world at large.
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» RE: worth saving?
Posted by: BigRon
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Posted by: craigandrew on Oct 1, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have a nice day C:)
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Posted by: pearce on Oct 1, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By David Swanson
SNIP:
I want a bill immediately to ban predatory mortgage lending, ban states
from preventing cities from restricting predatory lending, and commit
the federal government to allowing states full freedom to restrict
predatory lending.
I want a bill establishing a maximum wage at 10 times the minimum wage,
and including all forms of income in that calculation (and raising the
minimum wage how ever much required to pass the bill). I want the tax
system created by that bill to pay for any necessary bailouts, and want
such bailouts enacted and overseen by Congress.
I also want a Tobin tax on all transactions in finance, insurance, and
real estate, including currency transactions.
I want Congress to haul fraudulent bankers into Washington and force
them to testify, fire them without compensation as part of any bailouts,
and refer them to the Justice Department for prosecution.
I want serious regulation of Wall Street.
I want a five-year moratorium on foreclosures, and a bailout of
homeowners equal to any bailout of bankers.
And, finally, I want $700 billion invested in green energy jobs
immediately, to be paid for by a tax on carbon emissions.
In fact, I would like to see all of these steps included in a single
bill called the "Honest Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008."
Somebody explain to me why that wouldn't be a good move for our economy
and a smart political step for those who propose it.
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» RE: "WHAT I WANT"
Posted by: boing007
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 1, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JIff
Online Privacy Center
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» RE: Wall Street - can go to hell!
Posted by: symcokid
» Wall $treet deserves the DEATH PENALTY as do pols voting to bail them out !
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: eeezzz on Oct 1, 2008 8:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Obama is walking right into their trap
Posted by: jon B
» RE: Obama is walking right into their trap
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: ashbaines on Oct 1, 2008 8:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The NEXT DAY - Bush signs a $630 billion dollar spending bill... WHAT? we are supposed to think it's the same money?
And now we are still hearing about the $700 billion bailout.
They've spent 1 TRILLION, 260 BILLION in TWO DAYS !?!?!? and they want MORE????
Why are these men still breathing? -- Where are the gallows? the pitchforks?--the Jacobins??? --
NOt a PEEP anywhere but Crooks & Liars and Bloomberg.... not a fucking peep!!
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» RE: THERE WAS NO DEFEAT YOU IDIOTS
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: symcokid on Oct 1, 2008 8:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: No matter what, nothing they do is going to matter.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Oct 1, 2008 9:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about dividing $700 billion equally amongst every citizen 18 or older. I could use that $3000+. I need insulation and a heat pump for my home. I'm tired of being cold and getting sick because of it. Why not help us less fortunate people instead of giving money to people who already have more than they really know what to do with it? This is sickening!
Hell, I can't even really afford glass to build solar heat collectors but these damn thieving politicians will let me freeze so somebody like paulson can make millions of more dollars. When these parasites on Wall Street start freezing in the winter, wonder how they're going to feed themselves, have no medical insurance, and can't afford to see a doctor, then maybe we should bail them out.
How did these people get so vile?????
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» RE: I want my check.
Posted by: Von
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Posted by: grkjr on Oct 1, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VOTE FOR INTEGRITY.. VOTE FOR NADER.
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Posted by: dogwhisperer on Oct 1, 2008 10:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Speed bump in the path of the Bailout Juggernaut
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 1, 2008 12:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JSquercia on Oct 1, 2008 1:48 PM
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 1, 2008 2:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under Presidential Directive/HSPD-20, a single National Continuity Coordinator is responsible for coordinating the development and implementation of Bush's Federal continuity policies. Currently, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is the National Continuity Coordinator...'
All of the tools are in place for the administration to declare a national emergency and rule from the oval office by decree with no input from congress and it's all legal. The people who enabled it are the same people you are looking to for leadership.
I'm not saying it will happen, but it's never been more possible. Time to revisit the rise of the Nazis pre 1939 for clues. They didn't take it seriously until it was too late.
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» RE: National Emergency as Pretext For Police State?
Posted by: Von
» BINGO! GIVE THE MAN A CUPIE DOLL!
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Pretext For Police State? Thanks for saying it...
Posted by: snick
» Check This One Out Too
Posted by: InsertNameHere
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Posted by: photon's feather on Oct 1, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democrats.com reports that this version of the bailout plan has an additional item:
"So how did Congressional leaders respond to their defeat? They made the bill worse by adding $100 bilion in tax breaks favorng the rich. They didn't just put lipstick on the pig, they added pearls!"
Talk about insults.
Toll-free numbers for Capitol Hill switchboard:
1-800-473-6711
1-800-828-0498
Toll number:
202-224-3121
FILIBUSTER??
They also remind us that it would take only one populist Senator to mount a filibuster.
Their suggestions:
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Jon Tester (D-MT)
Jim Webb (D-VA)
Ron Weyden (D-VA)
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» RE: CALL YOUR SENATORS! THE NEW PLAN IS EVEN WORSE!
Posted by: Drume
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Posted by: cbishopp on Oct 1, 2008 2:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we vote against it then the men who control our currency (a slap in the face of the constitution to have anyone but the government print money) close down capital markets, stop lending, call in debts, and take back all the property and possessions which were not theirs in the first place.
This is a sham and a travesty but our officials know that if the fed called in the debt we owe for the printing of our own currency it would bankrupt the country immediately. That is of no value to them so let's give them...oh, how about 700 Billion! Is that enough? Will that ensure slavery for at least a generation if not longer?
Call your senators, call your representatives but it won't stop the bankers from breaking your back as soon as we try to assert ourselves.
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Posted by: jooljetkmae on Oct 1, 2008 2:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right now I'm so disgusted with the Democratic Party leadership that I don't care if they lose the Congress. They deserve to lose. I think Obama wins the White House, but he might find himself with a Republican Congress thanks to the political spinelessness of the Democratic leadership in Congress.
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Posted by: zrants on Oct 1, 2008 4:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
TAKE THE TIME - The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 is an improvement over the original Paulson plan. We have time to perfect the plan further.
LOAN THE MONEY - Buying questionable properties requires setting values on unknown properties, and means taking on unknown debt as well. Given the choice between loaning cash or bailing out, loaning seems the best, least risky choice. Congress can determine what to do with the profits when they materialize.
HOUSING VALUES - As a California resident who watched housing prices spiral out of reach for years, I have mixed feelings of relief that real estate prices are falling, and sympathy for owners of the over-priced property stuck with bad loans. We need control on both prices and interest rates. Surely someone in Congress can figure out how to protect the interests of both Main Street and Wall Street.
REGULATE - We need to re-install the regulatory systems that have been dismantled. Laying off large numbers of regulators to make government smaller and cheaper has resulted in unsafe products and a financial system out of control. We need a regulatory system that protects the rights of US citizens, not corporations.
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 1, 2008 4:49 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ha!
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: encinalito on Oct 1, 2008 4:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 1, 2008 5:31 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with Stiglitz that we are not likely to go over the edge. But I also agree that it looks like we are in for a long, hard haul to dig ourselves out of this hole.
Anyone who was paying attention and who was not invested in the scams being run on us could see that it could not continue forever. When ruled by "Take the money and run" it doesn't need to go on longer than it takes to salt yours away.
We got a lot of houses built. We need a lot of houses. Whether we can reconcile what we did with what we need will depend on how much it hurts. A McMansion parts into a fourplex very nicely. And they are in nice neighborhoods, too.
We need protection for those on the fringe, and with the welfare masacre under Clinton, all that was left was jobs. With jobs going the way of the passenger pigeon, we better hope she is a phoenix and will rise again.
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Posted by: MSharp on Oct 1, 2008 9:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
spending on her waist-full habits.
Don't you love the vernacular "bailout"
and "rescue"?
None of these can be done to a gambler
hotly intent on letting it ride.
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Posted by: wildbill on Oct 1, 2008 11:56 PM
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Tax the Corporations and the Rich or Take Draconian Cuts -- the Decision Is Ours
Fury at Wall St. Banks Fuels Public Action for Move Your Money Campaign
Why Congress Wants You to Shun Your Local Bookstore and Shop at Amazon Instead




