ECONOMY  
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Why Conservatives Led the Fight Against the Bailout Deal

Their revolt was anything but an act of courage to protect American families.
September 30, 2008  |  
 
 
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On Monday, the Bush administration's massive Wall Street bailout went down to a narrow defeat in the House. After the 228-205 vote, markets crashed, and the usual partisan finger-pointing followed. According to the Washington Post, Speaker Nancy Pelosi "maintained that Democrats 'delivered on our side of the bargain' by getting 60 percent of House Democrats to support a bill that was built around the Bush administration's proposal, whereas 67 percent of House Republicans voted against it."

At first glance, it may appear that the 133 House Republicans who broke with their party's leadership did so out of principle -- that they bravely stood up against a massive cash transfer to those most responsible for precipitating the financial crisis in the first place. They appeared to be gambling a lot in taking that principled position, despite the fact that the bailout had drawn fire from across the political spectrum. The conventional wisdom, after all, has gelled around the idea that only an unprecedented cash infusion into the ailing banking system will stave off a potential Next Great Depression. The message many rebellious conservatives sent was that it takes courage to roll the dice with the world's economy six weeks before an election, even if the public was deeply skeptical of the measure (the reality is that almost none of the lawmakers who face tight races this fall voted for the bailout, fearing a backlash from voters; Congress is not known for courage or principle on the eve of an election).

And there's no question that the bill they and 95 of their Democratic colleagues killed was an extremely bad one, even if some token nods to "Main Street" had been added to help it go down lawmakers' throats more smoothly. Democrats abandoned a key provision -- one vehemently opposed by lenders -- to allow bankruptcy judges to modify mortgages that are in the process of foreclosure, and they accepted only token limits on executive compensation for companies that would be rescued under the plan (PDF). Worst of all was a vaguely worded provision that might have allowed the Treasury to buy up bad paper at the price at which it was originally booked, rather than at those securities' largely unknowable but deeply diminished current value. That would have essentially given a small investor class an opportunity to recover its losses at the expense of the American taxpayer (and future taxpayers, as the bailout would be financed through debt).

But a deeper look reveals another picture of the legislative fight that has occupied Washington since George W. Bush first proposed the bailout. Unlike most House Democrats, who voted against the bill in an attempt to send the plan back to the drawing board to get a deal that might better protect taxpayers and homeowners, House conservatives torpedoed the measure in order to advance their own alternative "bailout," one that's an ideologically motivated back door to bailing out Wall Street without doing anything for Main Street.

The plan is notably light on detail, even for campaign season, when politicians are loath to discuss the fine points of any proposal. But based on what can be gleaned from media reports, the heart of the "alternative" scheme is for the government to sell insurance for securities based on bad loans, rather than buy up the paper directly. Supposedly, the premiums would be high enough to assure that Joe and Jane taxpayer don't get fleeced.

On its face, that idea seems both fiscally sound and decidedly conservative, in the traditional sense of the word.

But remember what the immediate problem we face is all about. The financial industry is weighed down by an enormous "shit pile" of bad paper -- mortgage-backed securities, complex derivatives and insurance-like instruments that were supposed to make all these "creative" investment vehicles somewhat sound. That shit pile, impossible to value accurately, is threatening the whole economy, as lenders hunker down and hold onto their cash reserves in an attempt to ride out the storm of foreclosures, and that's making it tough for businesses and consumers to get credit they need to expand their operations or buy new gizmos.

That's not a situation that lends itself to a government-backed insurance policy. If the premiums aren't deeply subsidized by the American public, they'll be out of reach of troubled banks by definition -- after all, if they had enough cash to cover their bad debts, which will ultimately be the job of the insurer (that's you, me and the people we know), then they wouldn't find themselves on the brink of collapse to begin with. That means the government would still end up effectively buying up the banks' worthless paper piece by piece as the underlying assets on which that paper is written go belly-up. Think of it as the government selling fire insurance for houses that are already ablaze.

So the point was not to spare the taxpayer the expense of Wall Street's shit pile. By offering an alternative plan, House conservatives abandoned a negotiating process that was, at heart, about trying to modify the disastrous Bush-Paulson plan so that it didn't just bail out the financial sector's movers and shakers without getting some concessions for working America.

The other two tenets of the alternative plan are worse still.

In keeping with the tradition of a party that has one policy solution to all economic ills -- cutting taxes on the wealthy -- the conservatives who bucked their leaders also suggested cutting capital gains taxes, even if only on a temporary basis. It's a triumph of ideology over common sense. We've seen stock markets tanking, as investors flee like rats from a sinking ship, seeking safer ground in commodities, which have gone through the roof (oil prices have been moderated somewhat by expectations of a long slowdown that would cut demand). A tax holiday on capital gains would only encourage those investors with steely nerves (and gains) who are staying in the market to join the herd, getting out while it's tax-free to do so. That can only send the already sky-high prices for food, energy and everything else even higher into the stratosphere. Ordinary working people would end up paying on both sides of the deal -- getting soaked for Wall Street's Reckless Lending Insurance and then paying through the nose to put food on the table.

Adding insult to injury is the third leg of the "alternative" bailout plan: more deregulation of the financial sector.

That's nothing short of breathtaking in its audacity. It was a lax regulatory environment that brought us to the verge of collapse in the first place. Exotic security-backed loans -- loans that didn't conform to the standards in place for banks that held deposits, including subprime loans, mortgages given to people who misstated their income and loans with heavy prepayment penalties and huge balloon payments -- are, as one would expect, faring far worse than the kinds of traditional loans that are regulated by the Federal Housing Authority or backed by Fannie Mae. Regulations passed by Congress only three months ago, as the depth of the meltdown had become clear, made "coercing a real estate appraiser to misstate a home's value" and "making a loan without regard to borrowers' ability to repay the loan from income and assets other than the home's value" a no-no; if similar commonsense regulations had been in place over the past decade, the run-up of the real estate market wouldn't have been as frenzied, and we wouldn't see the skyrocketing number of foreclosures we're witnessing today.

Again, none of this is to suggest that Americans should shed a tear for the demise of the compromise deal struck between Treasury Secretary Paulson and the Bush administration -- it was a bad deal that deserved to go down in flames. But it's also becoming increasingly evident that some sort of intervention is necessary to prevent the crisis from spreading through the entire global economy. Rather than pugnaciously cling to a failed ideology by heaping lucre on the wealthiest in the hope that it trickles down to the rest of us, Congress should be going back to the drawing board and coming up with a bailout plan rooted in a modicum of economic justice.

The House conservatives who have proven to be such a fly in the ointment are trying to go the other way -- cooking up a plan that will only deepen Main Street's pain in the name of saving it from Wall Street's predations.

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.
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Don't Look a Gift Horse in the Mouth ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 30, 2008 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These Republican Representatives will be dog food in the session of Congress anyway.

Maybe a better article would have been over the crony capitalism the Democrats are endorsing ...

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» Oh, pish and likewise tush Posted by: HeroesAll

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Ronald Reagan is Dead
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 30, 2008 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are a few silver linings behind the recent dark clouds. One of them surely is the fact that Ronald Reagan died this week. I realize that the dirty old bastard physically died over three years ago. I refer to the ideological cesspool known as the Reagan Revolution.

Remember George W. Bush merely havested the crop of America's economic destruction. It was Ronald Reagan who planted the seeds.

Tom Degan
Palin For President

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» RE: Ronald Reagan is Dead Posted by: revjmike
» RE: onald Reagan is Dead Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: onald Reagan is Dead Posted by: jnick

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Because of Joshua's insightful article, I learned a new word.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 30, 2008 1:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PREDATIONS: plural for "the act of plundering."

As for the reason conservative representatives voted "Nay" yesterday, I don't give a damn. I'm just glad they stopped the Bush/Paulson plundering bill from being inacted.

Called me a hopeless optimist but I believe in the end, with the American people ready to kick ass if it doesn't, Congress will pass a recovery plan that gets us out of the mess we're in.

Future success, of course, assumes that Stupid Sarah and her senile running mate will lose on November 4.

Finally, if you are an undecided voter, learn the truth about Mean Old McCain and his so-called "heroic" POW record by clicking on: Vote Against McCain (one of the HOTTEST anti-McCain sites on the Web)

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the definition of insanity
Posted by: ozonehole on Sep 30, 2008 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As many have said before, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. More tax cuts for the rich, more deregulation - you'd think the Republicans would have learned by now what a fiasco this has been. They are truly insane.

Even the ultra-rich should be getting worried that their policies have brought the country to its knees. Their yachts and Learjets won't protect them from the angry mobs. Where are they going to hide? Let me guess - they'll stash their stolen cash in Swiss banks accounts, and go live in Colombia (drug lords and Wall Street bankers do have much in common). These great "patriots" will flee like rats the sinking ship that is America.

I almost feel sorry for Obama if he gets elected. And considering how poor last week's debate was, I'm beginning to think that both McCain and Obama now regret they ever wanted the president's job - maybe they're both trying to lose.

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» That's not such a bad idea Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: That's not such a bad idea Posted by: bobtr900
» And besides Posted by: slydad
» RE: That's not such a bad idea Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Ned's right Posted by: snick
» RE: the definition of insanity Posted by: GrantBurkeVT

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What a lod of crap!
Posted by: F-Abdolian on Sep 30, 2008 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sorry, but this is just total BS, the politicians did this because they know their ass is on the line, they know that Bush is unpopular and they want to distance themselves from him (unlike some stupid Democrats who are too dumb to read between the lines of this chess game).

The republicans won a great propaganda moment, while the so called 'liberal' democrats lost.

And in the mean time, both of them had absolutely no problem paying 100s of billions dollars (unlike the bailout this is paid at least every year), for the war in Iraq and Pentagon budget:


As Congress and the public focus on more than $600 billion already approved in supplemental budgets to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and for counterterrorism operations, the Bush administration has with little notice reached a landmark in military spending.

When the Pentagon on Monday unveils its proposed 2009 budget of $515.4 billion, annual military spending, when adjusted for inflation, will have reached its highest level since World War II.

Source NYT

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» I guess you read... Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: I guess you read... Posted by: F-Abdolian
» RE: What a lod of crap! Posted by: EdinIowa

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CAUSE = CURE
Posted by: GeraldD on Sep 30, 2008 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THIS CRISIS WAS CAUSE BY A HANDFUL OF CORRUPT DEMOCRATS AND A HANDFUL OF EQUALLY CORRUPT FANNIE MAE OFFICIALS.
THIS IS THE VIDEO THAT CORRUPT FANNIE MAE OFFICIALS & AT LEAST FIVE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS DON'T WANT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SEE:

SHOCKING FANNIE MAE VIDEO

If you agree, then PLEASE pass it along To All Your Friends. Someone Needs TO GO TO Jail For This !!

And Here Is Another Shocking Fannie Mae Video

ANOTHER SHOCKING TALE OF DECEIT

As Soon As The Source Of This Meltdown is exposed, the sooner those few will give up their strangle hold on the Democratic Party. And The Sooner This Sorry Chapter Will Come To A Close. But as Long As Those Corrupt Democrats are allowed to hide behind their flimsy accusations of Republican responsibility, this charade will continue. These corrupt Democrats broke it, now lets shine some light on them and disinfect the situation. The sunlight of knowledge is a miraculous disinfectant for political corruption. Will You Do Your Part And Pass These Videos Along To Everyone You Know?

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» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: wberger001
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: F-Abdolian
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: riley
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: AnnieGrace

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SOCIALIZED WALL STREET NO, SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE YES!
Posted by: caru on Sep 30, 2008 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i am really feeling for all these fat cats. give me a break. i do not need credit to run my life, no one needs to live in this system it is a complete illusion.

now listen. GEORGE BUSH HAS MURDERED 1 MILLION IRAQIS. ENOUGH DRAMA YET? NO NOW LETS GIVE HIS BUDDIES ALL THE REST OF THE MONEY SO WE REALLY HAVE A NATION OF CREDIT SLAVES.

they are all crooks upon crooks.


WE DESERVE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE NOW, THAT WOULD STIMULATE OUR ECONOMY AND GIVE A BREAK TO ALL BUSINESSES.


THE CROOKS NEED TO GO TO JAIL: BUSH, ROVE, PAULSON.

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One thing missing....
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 30, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nancy Pelosi factor..playing politics with all of our money. Does she know anything about how to form bi-partisan support for anything.

Like Bush, she is supposed to lead - they both failed miserably.

The timing and tone of her speech suggested she wanted the vote not to pass - blame is more fun than solving a problem!

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» RE: RECALL NANCY PELOSI Posted by: edgar_michel

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and now, the REST of the story...
Posted by: AnIndependentThinker on Sep 30, 2008 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Besides this grotesque malfeasance and malice contempt of the American citizens (not including house democrats in this definition), there may even be a more sinister, more devious basis for this "revolt." What if this whole ploy was in fact created as a "maverick" distraction by the McCain camp? With all the negative (and rightfully so) publicity of McCain's air-headed VP, what better thing to do than create a diversion tactic to keep the media off the Palin subject, and more critically, keep the public in a panic to not think about the VP...and sadly, thus is the REAL reason McCain went to Washington. He initiated a bar room free-for-all --- not on behalf of the American people, but so he could make a failed attempt to win the presidency. Worse than Bush, worse than Cheney, and HORRIBLE for America. What a piece of work this man is, and some of us ALMOST fell for it.

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» Walk Away from the Huff(Obama) Post Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Justice First, Then Bailout to US
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 30, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First We MUST hold all Responsible who have caused this Current National Disaster- CEO'sCFO'sCOO's Boardmembers and Politicans (John and His Staff & Advisors).they did not Justfuck Up Our country (Treason),but have caused Global Repercussions.
The FBI investigation into this financial apocalypse should be Billed as Investigations in to Anti Ameircan Activities - ie Treason.Start With Phil and Wendy Gramm. Then lets see how many 'Public Servants' want to Fuck with US!
The ONLY Bill they should be Passing is One who Clearly demonstrates the Principles of the 21st Century American 'Bottoms Up' Economic Stratedgy. Cut US the Checks, We'll Pay our Loans and even spend a little on a middle class Luxury- A $300.00 Outfit!Not $3,000.00 or $30,000.00 or $300,000.00 - We aren't Cindy McCain ya Know,We don't need a Elizabethian High Collared Gown ( at $3,000- the thing becomes a gown not a dress, regardless of length!)
So EVERY time OLD Johnny Boy says let's not look Back, he's reminding US exactly what and WHO he is hiding...Gramm over his Right Shoulder, and Davis over his Left!

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» All Roads Lead Back to Democrats Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Let's see how these same conservatives fare after the election in March 2009 when nobody's watching.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT on Sep 30, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's 5 weeks before election day when they know voters will pay attention just like gas prices. After the election is over, the economic pounding will return in full force.

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» Off shore Drilling ban expired: Drill Baby Drill Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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A question... Anyone?
Posted by: photon's feather on Sep 30, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just about an hour ago, I watched yesterday's Democracy Now program. (www.democracynow.org)

In the interview with Amy Goodman, Dennis Kucinich referred to a [nameless] former head of the FDIC who had told a group of Congressional members:

for the last several weeks, the Bush administration has been tightening up on the practices of banks, and are forcing them to have bigger reserves, which would help to create the current tight-money policies that we're seeing.

Not a direct quote, but a fairly accurate summary. (That last clause is almost verbatim.)

Who is this former head of the FDIC? Is it William Isaac, who wrote an article for the Washington Post, describing the bailout as unnecessary?

A Better Way to Aid Banks

Or is there a second former head of the FDIC that is against this bailout?

(If Kucinich did name this person, I certainly missed it - twice. I am not referring to Richard Fisher, Pres of the Dallas Fed Reserve, reported by Kucinich to be against the bailout.)

Curiouser and curiouser...

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the democratic leadership was still ready to sell us out...
Posted by: dauphin534 on Sep 30, 2008 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author and most of the posters are failing to note how this bill was bullshit. just as the so-called fisa "compromise" was bull-shit. the democratic leadership should finally be seen by all as morally bankrupt. we've always known repubs were bad, but i am thankful so many republicans started listening to the constituents and worried about their reelection chances with such a negatively viewed bill. when will more democrats follow their lead?

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» RE: I'm not a Republican, Posted by: oregoncharles

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Prediction for the Bailout
Posted by: US Citizen on Sep 30, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prediction on the Bailout. The Bailout will pass.
For a few days, Wall Street will have a large rally. Some nimble traders will make billions of dollars in stock deals. These nimble traders will be praised widely in the media for their acumen, but they have actually received inside detailed information ahead of time, including exact timing and specifics of the bailout actions. After a few days, the market will start falling again, and we will be in the same financial crisis we are now, except minus $700 billion..

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October and Rovian ideology
Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 30, 2008 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, it's October tomorrow. Bush is shunned by most Republicans now at the end of his presidency. He and his Sec. of the Treasury, Paulson propose a bailout plan with no oversight and unending refill options for 2 years. This is a perfect plan in that now almost ALL Republican's can show (right before the election) how they shun such measures, call for additional financial constraints and conservatism and are distancing themselves from the Bush administration. Democrats will be left holding a bag of stinking fish while most of us have suffered the most grievous crime in history. One that has been planned for years: witness the lack of regulation, assurances that the free market society will police themselves and the blatant handouts to this crew year after year after year.

We are completely being f'd.

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» hmmm Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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And...
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 30, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I think the bansk dug their own hole and now they are going to have to claw their way back out. Why the heck should we pay for them when we are having a hard enough time trying to support ourselves?

Jiff
Is your ISP watching you?

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Sour Grapes
Posted by: Romans1 on Sep 30, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Conservative Republicans simply had more guts and ethics than the Democrats in Congress. And it just kills you so you won't admit it.

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» THE DEMS DONT NEED US Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: Well, no... Posted by: oregoncharles
» Yes, true conservatives still exist. Posted by: countingdaisies

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Republican thinking is certainly fascinating
Posted by: Beck on Sep 30, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Head Republican Bush comes up with a plan for his Republican buddies who botched up Wall Street. Plan is pushed by Republicans Paulson and other lackies. Republican McCain, who has been bland on economics so far, is so stirred, he "cancels" his campaign and his appearance at a long-scheduled debate to return to Washington, where he has missed many, many votes. Bad bill is tampered with, voted on, fails. Due mainly to Republican "no" votes. Yet Democrats are blamed for the failure (last week Democrats were blamed for NOT backing the bill).

Democrat Pelosi apparently is suddenly so powerful in oration that SHE caused the failure, and the switching of many Republican votes from Ay to Nay. I never before saw this ability of hers, but apparently, even though relatively few Republicans were reported as being in the room, and those that remained for Pelosi's speech were not seen to appear particularly fascinated by it, the mere words of Pelosi were enough to turn Republicans away from their own consciences and sense of duty. (Memo to anyone: something must be done to mute the power of Pelosi. If she manages to remain in office, no one will ever again be able to vote their own conscience.)

There must be nothing so comfortable as being a Republican. Nothing, if you're Republican, is EVER your fault or your responsibility or especially your duty.

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» Republicans are scumbags. Posted by: andabottleof_rum

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As a Conservative Republican
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Sep 30, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do I get a invite now to the cool parties? I was happy that it failed. We need to get off the credit hog no matter what side your on. Its still Ironic how The House Speaker is in a rush along with Barny Frank to give President Bush what he wants.

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Liberals also led this fight
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Sep 30, 2008 6:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a Dkos diary by Democratic representative Tom Udall explaining his No vote.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/29/113437/784

Note the second comment - MY plan to restore liquidity to Main Street. Shoveling cash at Wall Street is classic trickle down - and won't work.

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» Liberals also led this fight Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Repubs want to buy your schools, water systems
Posted by: scheherezade on Sep 30, 2008 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many of the Republicans who voted against the bailout were hardcore neocon ideologues.

They know tinkle-down, privatization-driven economic theory's dead in the water if Congress steps in and mitigates 'market' discipline.

After the economy tanks (which will happen regardless of a bailout) they're hoping to help their pals buy out now-lucrative, sure-thing infrastructure investments like roads, bridges and water systems.

If Congress fails to prevent this, through a progressive, bottom-up style stimulus (as described elsewhere on this site), we can expect further economic devolution -- to where a small, feudal-style owner class wields military/policing control over a large, uneducated, unhealthy, working poor.

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We have only 72 hours to lobby Congress
Posted by: DorothyNed on Sep 30, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again GWB did not disclose what was in a bill. Or rather what wasn't in it.

We have 72 hours to send a message to Congress to do the right thing.

Here are the critical points missing in the bailout bill, which was defeated.

1. The bailout bill had NO enforcement provisions for the so-called oversight group that was going to monitor Wall Street's spending of the $700 billion;

2. It had NO penalties, fines or imprisonment for any executive who might steal any of the people's money;

3. It did NOTHING to force banks and lenders to rewrite people's mortgages to avoid foreclosures -- this bill would not have stopped ONE foreclosure!;

4. It had NO teeth anywhere, using words like "suggested" when referring to the government being paid back for the bailout. A bailout bill MUST have a PAYBACK clause with a specified deadline.

Over 200 economists wrote to Congress stating this bill might actually WORSEN the "financial crisis" and cause even MORE of a meltdown.

It is now up to US, the voters, to keep the pressure on. Remember YOU are the one paying for this bailout.

And remember if items #1 - #4 are not in the bill, who benefits in the END? The fat cat CEO's and fat cat stock holders. NOT you and me.

Contact your Congressperson TODAY. NO flat out bailout. All four items above MUST be in any bailout bill.

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Nancy Pelosi: JOKE
Posted by: fanny666 on Sep 30, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Almost Bush-like in the "Say one thing and do precisely the exact opposite thing" way, her floor speech before the vote:

"Our message to Wall Street is this: the party is over. The era of golden parachutes for high-flying Wall Street operators is over. No longer will the U.S. taxpayer bailout the recklessness of Wall Street."

Huh?

Support Cindy Sheehan, who is running against Nancy Pelosi

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Write/call: Bail out America - Take her back from Corporate State - Give her back to her people!
Posted by: Lifesabeach on Sep 30, 2008 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To all elected public servants representing the people of America:

I make the following recommendations regarding our economic crisis – STAND UP FOR AMERICA – Take her back from the corporate state and give her back to her people! I am concerned about the legality and constitutionality of the current economic practices in the US. Here’s how we can get back on track:

1. Freeze all foreclosures for Americans
2. Increase HOPE for Homeowner’s Act – keeping all Americans in a home, providing homes for the homeless recently [since 2006 when A.R. M.’s began causing foreclosures] foreclosed Americans
3. Emergency flat rate mortgage rate of 3-4% for ALL Americans – stimulates economy, housing market
4. Emergency increase in wages to a LIVING WAGE and FULL BENEFIT packages – provide all corporations who provide this a huge tax break – stimulates economy without penalizing corporations
5. Emergency Instant Heavy-handed Regulation of Wall St. – To be rethought and scaled back after economic stability with a long-range regulatory bill
6. Broker a deal with America’s wealthiest – They have proven success over financial management. Let them solve America’s Wall Street crisis and govern the ‘bail-out’.
7. End the War in IRAQ – Use this $9 billion per month to stimulate the economy - create jobs in green energy to remove our dependence on foreign oil, poor money into education in specific ways – fund the mandates, professional development, reward innovation, teach the 3R’s through the arts and electives, increase apprenticeship programs to reduce drop-outs, get in front of the parade regarding new jobs and bring them into the field of education.

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Election Hacking
Posted by: aonghus36 on Sep 30, 2008 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting that this financial crisis is just the thing to get people's minds off of the probability that our electronic voting machines are going to be hacked into, in order to sway the elections, probably to John McCain. It won't just be Repubs, either. People around the world like in China, Israel, and Russia will be interested in who gets elected here.

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Republican Psycho Trash
Posted by: Traven on Sep 30, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over the last twenty years had it not been for the 1700+ radio stations owned by Clear Channel, that bastion of right-wing group think only a true Nazi could love, and the twenty odd right-wing think tanks well funded by the richest 10,000 American families who together pumped the American body politic full mindless fantasies that someday you too, could be a billionaire, if only the market were set free; the ideological pure believers whether Republican congressmen or the typical Limbaugh listener wouldn’t have a clue what to say.

That these fools still repeat it now, only confirms their slavish devotion to prove they are truly clueless.

Their beloved capitalist system died in 1929, it was replaced by monopoly state capitalism in stages: WWII, the cold War and by the time the vast majority of us alive today were born State capitalism was a done deal.

Depending on which economist you ask and if He/She is honest, they will admit the United States has spent somewhere between 3-5 trillion dollars on Nuclear weapons production alone since 1945.

(FYI: The government and industry and most policy hacks do not like to talk about these figures it actually may approach 7 trillion.)

The nuclear weapons machine is a vast industry; at its height it employed hundreds of thousands: engineers, scientists, high skilled machinists, along with the thousands of support workers in facilities to design it, build it, test it, and then build vast secure facilities to store in and guard it – all curtsey of the US tax payer. The list of the hundreds of small and large corporations involved who made money off this vast industrial enterprise is mind numbing.

That is just the Nuclear weapons part, now thrown in the rest of the defense industry and multiply all those companies, and spending by a factor of a thousand and you might get a clue to what really drives the great American economy.

The whole American economy - every hot dog stand all the way up to the most fancy car dealer selling Italian race cars to Hollywood actors has depended on these massive outlays of billions over decades to keep going the whole machine humming alone – without these vast public expenditures the economy falls back into 1929.

Remember the pyramids?

That sometime over the last thirty-five years the richest 10,000 American families decided to dismantle the production of basic consumer side of our economy and send it overseas is the why, ( the short why), so many millions can no longer afford a mortgage.

Thrown in greedy banks, and investment firms, whose lobbyists pay off Republicans congressmen at ratios much higher than Democrats and the picture becomes clear real fast if one bothers to see reality.

Starting with S&L ‘reform’ in 1980s under Regan, through the 1999 passage of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act Republicans weighted in and voted just like the lobbyists wanted them too, yes many Democrats went along in 1999, but it was Republican party and their devotion to the ‘free market’ that led the charge for years.

The infinite wisdom of this free market reform can be seen here:

Between 1984 and 2004, the number of FDIC-regulated banks declined from 14,392 to 7,511. The proportion of industry assets held by the ten largest banks increased from 21 percent in 1960 to 60 percent in 2005.

It’s called monopoly state capitalism, run by fat cats to enrich fat cats and free enterprise and the free market did not enter the minds of the lobbyists who wrote these bills and it was bought and paid for by our 10,000 richest families and the whores of the Republican Party did what they were paid to do and voted it in.

Some would call all this a crime, some might even call it treason, but only a raving lunatic right-wing fool would call it courage.

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do not pass go . . .
Posted by: Quasar on Sep 30, 2008 10:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They didn't get social security so they are gunning for this 700 billion. They are stalling just so they can pressure congress into cutting that money loose down stream toward, where else, Wall St.

Obama can make his mark right now by pressuring his dems to do the right thing.

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If Only Joshua Could Understand the Part 9/11 Played
Posted by: edgar_michel on Sep 30, 2008 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11 was a radical approach intended to shore up slumping defense industries and increase capital circulation.

The fact that practically no-one got it then is the reason that everyone is now looking at this implosion of the economy.

When a country ceases to produce anything of real value and only uses its military might to force other countries to deal with it, it is only common sense that the economy is hyper-inflated and has lost most of its real value, otherwise the people of the world would b e beating a path to your door.

If this country had a reasonable leader in 2001, the necessary adjustments would have been begun then and not now, when adjustment is no longer the correct term for the needed alterations.

If, rather than foist a calculated deception upon the American people in order to go to war and boost the economy through defense industries spending, this administration might have taken that 100's of billions to trillions of dollars and pumped it into higher education and research so that alternative energy solutions might have been vigorously sought and found.

The idea was that the call to war would boost production of military hardware, the only high tech commodity the U.S. leads the world in, which would boost American productivity which would somehow turn all this bad paper to gold.

Fortunately, the 9/11 attack didn't have the universal appeal to war its architects had hoped for and there wasn't, also fortunately, the carte blanch scramble of young people to the local recruiting office this administration had hoped for.

When Americans look back on this time they will be disheartened to realize just how gullible they actually were. The war in Iraq didn't save our economy and it won't save our economy, all that happened is that 2,726 good people lost their lives on September 11, 2001, when the towers collapsed according to plan, which produced no real value, except perhaps Larry Silverstein became significantly richer.

We need to develop an alternative to oil pronto, and Americans should have been doing this for the past 30 years, or ever since the oil embargo of 1973, if this economy has any chance of surviving to the end of the decade.

We need real products that have real value on the international market that earn real profit, not abstract paper that only has value as long as no-one knows what its worth.

We need no more 9/11’s to stimulate the war industries and we certainly do not need to bail out these rough and tumble gamblers on Wall Street who foisted this whole affair upon us in the first place.

The American people had better wake up and realize that they are being fed deception after deception and they are swallowing each and every one of them in the order received.

What we need now is for the value of the economy to be properly assessed and accepted and then proceed forward on a much, much tighter budget and with a comprehensive regulatory body empowered to enforce sorely needed regulation, until such time as the American people can again compete on the international stage with real value, without the need for periodic calls to war to shore up their economic fictions.

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Another Act of Terrorism by the name I shall not speak but occupies 1600...
Posted by: Turiye on Sep 30, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... Pennsylvania Avenue. He Terrorizes the old folk, those that are not well read ergo do not really know what the hell is happening yet if the Terrorist and those on the other side of the aisle acting as surrogates of Terror INC.
Why would or should we have allowed Congress dare proclaim Yea, what was it, 8,9 days ago that the sky was falling? Those that sit on the wrong side of the aisle act as buffoons entertaining one another due to no regulation, left to run amok unchecked as one more example of Executive Over reach, as these kids between the ages of 23-35, played with workers pensions, 401K's, predatory mortgage lenders balking at telling the truth to hard working 1st time buyers exactly what a Balloon Mortgage or Teaser Rate meant, acting as players at a Black Jack table in Vegas. Blaming the loanees, the students, those that are NOT white men all the while the name I refuse to utter steps out from his lair and Terrorizes each time, do you not remember the announcement when we invaded Iraq? Very similiar, very unremarkable in the sense it is to be expected from that person whom has decimated OUR Constitution, Tortures, Kidnaps, Occupys Nations just because, the World is in ruins, financially, we are a World at war, we are still acting as the grand Provocateurs about Iran, and the World lays in ruin. What he has ruined with blatant, egregious acts so evil all the while a dumb ass smirk on that idiot face of his. Enough! NO WAR NO WHERE NO MORE. The money will flow in. This is a grand F$$K OFF to us because he wants to, he is that juvenile and evil at the same time to do such great harm and put such large scale fear into the hearts of the average Joe/Josephine, piss off Murderer!
This is as Terrorists Ply you with Lies

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Oh, I get it...
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Sep 30, 2008 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the R's who voted against the bailout bill did so because they're meanies who are just plain evil, whereas the D's who voted the exact same way did so because they're angels who always base their votes on truly altruistic reasons.

Maybe there was something else going on: of the 38 incumbent members of Congress from both parties who are considered vulnerable in the coming election, 30 voted against the bill, and only 8 supported the bill; by contrast, members of Congress from relatively safe districts were evenly divided — 197 for to 198 against. From all reports, the public was massively against this bill and was making their skepticism known to their members of congress, who voted accordingly in those instances where a close race compelled them to listen to their constituencies.

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» RE: Oh, I get it... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Obviously you don't ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Obviously you don't ... Posted by: Ahimsa

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Do not Vote Democrat or Republican
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Sep 30, 2008 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr Holland has a bias.

He is quite clearly a Democrat.

He quite clearly had a lot of trouble even pointing out the fact that the Democrats largely pushed this bill and the Republicans largely opposed it.

Its not his fault I guess. It is inherently human to hold titanic double standards for those in your group and those outside your group. Now if only everyone realized this about themselves perhaps the human race would not fall victim to team/group/tribal thinking time after time.


Now I am not encouraging people to vote Republican, a $700 billion Iraq war bill largely given to us by Republicans is just as bad as a $700 billion bailout bill largely given to us by Democrats.


Until the American public wakes up to the fact that neither of the 2 main parties represents us anymore, we will continue to get stuck with the bills on all sorts of illegal wars of aggression, corporate welfare, and pork barrel spending.


It is time to vote 3rd party (actually long past time).

If you want real change you have to change who you vote for (and become more self aware about your own tribe based thinking).

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» How do you figure? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Democrat? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How else do you explain your article's bias? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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This Is Just Posturing, Bailout Is Coming Folks
Posted by: cherylholmes on Sep 30, 2008 12:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These assholes on Capitol Hill are only posturing..they know they'll pass a bill to bail these rich bastards out, they're toying with us to get us sufficiently riled up!

Oct 1st begins the official use of the military to quash dissent in this country...maybe this is the October Surprise...our uprising, the military police state enacted, and FINALLY our government will get to use those domestic concentration camps.
The bailout will pass Michael but not before they have incited us into rioting in the streets so they can start killing us and locking us up forever...kinda like "poking the bear"

I wrote the below comments before I realized today what's really going on here...cheryl



Time for some good old Robinhood Political Justice..I'm so damned sick and tired of these greedy ass vultures I could scream! In fact I have been screaming about it all day! I don't know about any of you, but I simply can't afford to lose any more than I already have.

Biden stated Sunday, entitlements would have to be slashed to fund all the bailouts...that means..and he specified, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veteran's benefits, food stamps, AFDC, Head Start, all children's programs and elderly/senior programs under DHS. Why not just euthanize us and get it over with?

Oh that's right, then they wouldn't be able to "torture" us to death by starvation, sickness, homelessness...and we all know how they LOVE torture.

Entitlements, according to Biden are 40% of the federal budget. We, the poor are going to have to pay the most with our lives so these rich bastards can maintain their rich status....anyone who bitches abt socialism and agrees to the bailout is a liar...it's all abt when fascism becomes socialism and we will ALL lose. They will be no paying back the government...face it..no jobs, no income, means no way to make ANY mortgage payment so the banks will fail regardless of the bailout. The bailout isn't going to benefit anyone except these rich bastards! First they make a boatload of cash swindling prospective homeowners with their predatory lending practices, knowing full well they could never AFFORD to pay those mortgages, and now they intend to make yet another boatload of cash because we're stupid enough to allow it AGAIN! Meanwhile VULTURE Guiliani is circling Congress, his law firm gearing up to take over managing the financial institutions bailout funds..Lord knows the rethugs owe him..he's kissed enough of their asses...Payback time!

So, is this the October Surprise? Or will there be more?
I happen to think these bastards in Congress are just posturing because of the upcoming elections and WILL pass this no matter what we say or do. October 1st they have the help of the military to terrorize us legally and quash dissent...maybe they can start using those concentration camps huh?

Here's a list of the next bailouts...get ready...

foreign banks
credit card banks (credit card defaults)
insurance companies (Ike losses)
car manufacturers

Who am I forgetting???

Hold on, it's going to be a rough ride from now on!

Oh we have to bailout "Golden Sacks"
and UBS too!

Cheryl

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No, the markets did not crash
Posted by: GuitarBill on Sep 30, 2008 12:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The market lost 10% yesterday and today the market gained back 484 points of 700 points lost on Monday.

A 10% fall in the market is not a "crash".

If you want to talk about a market crash let's talk about Monday, October 19, 1987. On that day the market fell 508 points to 1739 (22.6%). By the end of October, stock markets in Hong Kong had fallen 45.8%, Australia 41.8%, Spain 31%, the United Kingdom 26.4%, the United States 22.68%, and Canada 22.5%.

Get a grip.

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How do you spell Economic Boom?
Posted by: flyingfox on Sep 30, 2008 1:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an alternative to the bail out of AIG. Not sure if the same principal would work with $700,000,000,000.


I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.
So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that
equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends
$25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband
and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who
lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back.
And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 economic incentive that is being proposed by
one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's
bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back
to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector
bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.


Sure it's a crazy idea that can work.

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the
$85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5
billion because $25.5 billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

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New Question: why is OBAMA FOR BAILOUT along with McCAIN?
Posted by: PointMan on Sep 30, 2008 2:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, could Obama & McClown both be working for the same Wall Street corporate crime gang?

Go figure.

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» Why of course they do Posted by: GuitarBill
» Duh! This is what I've been saying. Posted by: common intelligence

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Don't be fooled by the window dressing.....
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 30, 2008 2:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conservatives are just trying to make themselves look good. They know how to work the public opinion. Make the lefties look greedy and the righties look like 'apple-pie
Americans' They are'nt. They're the same corrupt bastards they always were. They just want to make us think they are'nt.
If you saw the vote results we saw the democrats supporting the bailout and the republicans not. Anybody fooled by this dog and pony show needs a brain transplant...today!!
In the 'Great Depression' Washington tried to prop up the markets. It worked for a short time then blammo...the depression. The same thing will happen if DC bails out Wall St again. With the democrats leading the charge,do you think they've become the sellouts the republicans have always been? No they just proved they are the same party.
They say they want to help out 'Main St.'. Well in my town main St. is full of businesses. The folks that need help live on 3rd or 4th street. So once again they've proved they are'nt concerned about real people just real wealthy people.
We,the People, have to keep up the pressure on these bums. Call DC everyday. Light the fires of public indignation and put their feet in it. It was'nt the conservatives that won this first battle for the people...it was US!!!! Conservatives understand 'Pass this law and you don't have a job anymore.' But it's a victory for the people and if we ease up on them we'll fall to the money sword.
DON'T STOP!! YOU'RE ALL DOING THE RIGHT THING.
refusing to get cornholed for Wall St.
Let the greedy suffer the losses they deserve. If we bail them out,WE OWN THEM!!!
By the way.....Has anyone ever proffered the idea of 'Flood upwardly economics'? You know, give the people,the real people,a share of 700billion or the 2 trillion they're seeking.
They say a person is worth 6.9 million..each. If they gave us all 1% of that,or, $69,000, debts would get paid,people would invest,start businesses and basically pump money back into the system. Unlike the rich,who would just find another loophole to shove 700 billion in.
SUPPORT THE NEEDY,NOT THE GREEDY

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Democrats attacked GSE regulators in 2004
Posted by: dover23 on Sep 30, 2008 2:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
time for the fanatical Dems to take their heads out of their butts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

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Plan 9 from Outer Space
Posted by: Sharkie on Sep 30, 2008 4:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Plan 9 from Outer Space

On August 29, 2008, $9,645,725,555,640.02 was the total public outstanding debt of the United States. By September 29, 2008, it was $9,945,578,231,981.59. That was an increase in debt of approximately one billion dollars for every day of September or$300 billion for the ninth month alone. One has to wonder why regime Treasury Secretary Paulson needs Congress to okay a paltry $700billion when in another few months he will have added at least that much and more to the nation’s debt anyhow.

In the movie Plan 9 from Outer Space, the characters evolved around a science-fiction like inability to ward off predators from another galaxy. They simply stood with arms pointed straight down, emitted a faint scream and let the spacemen have their way with them. I fear this same inability has appeared again from outer space, this time in the form of everyone ignoring current monthly statements of public debt, while actually Plan 9 is busy adding billions monthly to the total.

We have seen the manipulation of investments that have given a select few the freedoms to fleece all of human kind. There was the Financial Services Regulatory Relief Act of 2006 that created still another economic panic requiring us now to lend in a “counter-cyclic” manner when normal fiscal criteria counsels “don’t lend.” We have become possessed with such lending, such financial relief and ensuing stimulus. It has left us with a glaring stare, one that causes men who know that things are going quite wrong to say that things are fundamentally sound, a sort of Plan 9 effect on earthlings. We may as well have our spinal cords severed. Let’s see; blank stare with a wide-eyed gaze, un-founded optimism in panic stricken markets, a central bank that knows what's good for us, oh yeah, they’re here alright. It has to be, what else could explain it?

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Enough with the language, already
Posted by: Ahimsa on Sep 30, 2008 5:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come one
Can we please not use the Wall Street / Main Street stupid slogan anymore?
Can we use the beautiful language that we have at hand to express things without soundbyte language?
No wonder kids are writing school papers in text messaging lingo!

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» RE: nough with the language, already Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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parrotuya
Posted by: parrotuya on Sep 30, 2008 7:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let the markets collapse first and then pick up the pieces afterward. Imagine if Hoover tried to bail out Wall St. back in '29. What would have happened? Hoover gets 4 more years and the party continues until a bigger collapse occurs. Let those Wall St. geniuses eat cake!

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The gift horse
Posted by: Jeanne on Sep 30, 2008 10:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first post said it. We shouldn't be looking too hard at the fact the conservative Republicans scuttled it -- as did a lot of progressive Democrats. The rejection of this bill was a strange marriage of the conservative republican and the progressive dems who could see nothing in it for their constituents. I saw Rep. Culbertson (sp) from Texas on Rachel Maddow's show today, and I have to say, I bought his reasoning on voting against the bill. He tried to push aside Rachel's effort to cast it as a tactical Rep vs Dem contest and pointed out that the bill was against everything he, as a fiscally conservative republican believed in. It was, likewise, completely repugnant to progressive democrats like Dennis Kucinich. I think the only ones who want to see it pass as is are the banking interests and those in Congress that they own. Wall St. spoke today with one of the largest gains in history. So, what is the rush, precisely? I think we have time to consider the law that is going to get passed and I think Congress should weigh it very carefully. They need to get expert advice from economists who are not vested in paychecks emanating from their government or their Wall St. connections. I see no need to rush into any plan that isn't adequately vetted by honest, unbiased experts.

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Do you have the courage to stand up for Freedom?
Posted by: drblack on Oct 1, 2008 2:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you have the courage to stand up for Freedom and America?

No bailout unless regular Americans are given help,regulations are placed on ALL financial systems(hedge funds included.)
Bankruptcy law is put back to where it was before it was changed a few years ago in favor of the credit card companies. No one should go broke getting medical attention and strict limits are placed on interest.
Foreclosures are to be stopped and loans renegotiated.
No business can be "Too Big To Fail" and those that are to be broken up.
Business must pay its taxes and NO ONE can have secret off-shore accounts.
Those who created this mess should be investigated and treated like the criminals they are. No more shielding of the rich.
There must be harsh penalties for anyone who breaks laws related to finance.

This is your chance to save the USA and restore Freedom,Justice and the Constitution.

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'Was going to rave, but Thanks for everyone Reflecting true Insight here.
Posted by: common intelligence on Oct 1, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote a huge piece on this vote the other day to post.
But Joshua and all you commenting bloggers got it covered.
GOOD JOB. No sense in me adding dedundancy.

Now Let's keep it up.
Thanks to to the 94 Demos that stopped the bill. They played and important roll that must be recognized. The demo "pro" vote are traitors to the people.
O, and one important thing.......
That friggin knee shackin' cave-in woman Pelosi needs to have her as kicked! She's gutless and scared cause she's gots no balls to stand up to Bush Terrorists.

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There was NO DEFEAT - you morons
Posted by: ashbaines on Oct 1, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WAIT JUST A MINUTE -- Bush and the FED pumped $630 billion into the sytem Monday morning... just before the vote. Not a peep anywhere but a Bloomberg story... like the weather.

The NEXT DAY - Bush signs a $630 billion dollar spending bill... WHAT? we are supposed to think it's the same money?

And now we are still hearing about the $700 billion bailout.

They've spent 1 TRILLION, 260 BILLION in TWO DAYS !?!?!? and they want MORE????

Why are these men still breathing? -- Where are the gallows? the pitchforks?--the Jacobins??? --

NOt a PEEP anywhere but Crooks & Liars and Bloomberg.... not a fucking peep!!

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» Bush always gets what he wants. Posted by: countingdaisies
Alternet Comments:

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Don't Look a Gift Horse in the Mouth ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 30, 2008 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These Republican Representatives will be dog food in the session of Congress anyway.

Maybe a better article would have been over the crony capitalism the Democrats are endorsing ...

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» Oh, pish and likewise tush Posted by: HeroesAll

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Ronald Reagan is Dead
Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 30, 2008 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are a few silver linings behind the recent dark clouds. One of them surely is the fact that Ronald Reagan died this week. I realize that the dirty old bastard physically died over three years ago. I refer to the ideological cesspool known as the Reagan Revolution.

Remember George W. Bush merely havested the crop of America's economic destruction. It was Ronald Reagan who planted the seeds.

Tom Degan
Palin For President

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» RE: Ronald Reagan is Dead Posted by: revjmike
» RE: onald Reagan is Dead Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: onald Reagan is Dead Posted by: jnick

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Because of Joshua's insightful article, I learned a new word.
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 30, 2008 1:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PREDATIONS: plural for "the act of plundering."

As for the reason conservative representatives voted "Nay" yesterday, I don't give a damn. I'm just glad they stopped the Bush/Paulson plundering bill from being inacted.

Called me a hopeless optimist but I believe in the end, with the American people ready to kick ass if it doesn't, Congress will pass a recovery plan that gets us out of the mess we're in.

Future success, of course, assumes that Stupid Sarah and her senile running mate will lose on November 4.

Finally, if you are an undecided voter, learn the truth about Mean Old McCain and his so-called "heroic" POW record by clicking on: Vote Against McCain (one of the HOTTEST anti-McCain sites on the Web)

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the definition of insanity
Posted by: ozonehole on Sep 30, 2008 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As many have said before, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. More tax cuts for the rich, more deregulation - you'd think the Republicans would have learned by now what a fiasco this has been. They are truly insane.

Even the ultra-rich should be getting worried that their policies have brought the country to its knees. Their yachts and Learjets won't protect them from the angry mobs. Where are they going to hide? Let me guess - they'll stash their stolen cash in Swiss banks accounts, and go live in Colombia (drug lords and Wall Street bankers do have much in common). These great "patriots" will flee like rats the sinking ship that is America.

I almost feel sorry for Obama if he gets elected. And considering how poor last week's debate was, I'm beginning to think that both McCain and Obama now regret they ever wanted the president's job - maybe they're both trying to lose.

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» That's not such a bad idea Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: That's not such a bad idea Posted by: bobtr900
» And besides Posted by: slydad
» RE: That's not such a bad idea Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Ned's right Posted by: snick
» RE: the definition of insanity Posted by: GrantBurkeVT

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What a lod of crap!
Posted by: F-Abdolian on Sep 30, 2008 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sorry, but this is just total BS, the politicians did this because they know their ass is on the line, they know that Bush is unpopular and they want to distance themselves from him (unlike some stupid Democrats who are too dumb to read between the lines of this chess game).

The republicans won a great propaganda moment, while the so called 'liberal' democrats lost.

And in the mean time, both of them had absolutely no problem paying 100s of billions dollars (unlike the bailout this is paid at least every year), for the war in Iraq and Pentagon budget:


As Congress and the public focus on more than $600 billion already approved in supplemental budgets to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and for counterterrorism operations, the Bush administration has with little notice reached a landmark in military spending.

When the Pentagon on Monday unveils its proposed 2009 budget of $515.4 billion, annual military spending, when adjusted for inflation, will have reached its highest level since World War II.

Source NYT

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» I guess you read... Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: I guess you read... Posted by: F-Abdolian
» RE: What a lod of crap! Posted by: EdinIowa

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CAUSE = CURE
Posted by: GeraldD on Sep 30, 2008 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THIS CRISIS WAS CAUSE BY A HANDFUL OF CORRUPT DEMOCRATS AND A HANDFUL OF EQUALLY CORRUPT FANNIE MAE OFFICIALS.
THIS IS THE VIDEO THAT CORRUPT FANNIE MAE OFFICIALS & AT LEAST FIVE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS DON'T WANT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SEE:

SHOCKING FANNIE MAE VIDEO

If you agree, then PLEASE pass it along To All Your Friends. Someone Needs TO GO TO Jail For This !!

And Here Is Another Shocking Fannie Mae Video

ANOTHER SHOCKING TALE OF DECEIT

As Soon As The Source Of This Meltdown is exposed, the sooner those few will give up their strangle hold on the Democratic Party. And The Sooner This Sorry Chapter Will Come To A Close. But as Long As Those Corrupt Democrats are allowed to hide behind their flimsy accusations of Republican responsibility, this charade will continue. These corrupt Democrats broke it, now lets shine some light on them and disinfect the situation. The sunlight of knowledge is a miraculous disinfectant for political corruption. Will You Do Your Part And Pass These Videos Along To Everyone You Know?

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» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: wberger001
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: F-Abdolian
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: riley
» RE: CAUSE = CURE Posted by: AnnieGrace

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SOCIALIZED WALL STREET NO, SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE YES!
Posted by: caru on Sep 30, 2008 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i am really feeling for all these fat cats. give me a break. i do not need credit to run my life, no one needs to live in this system it is a complete illusion.

now listen. GEORGE BUSH HAS MURDERED 1 MILLION IRAQIS. ENOUGH DRAMA YET? NO NOW LETS GIVE HIS BUDDIES ALL THE REST OF THE MONEY SO WE REALLY HAVE A NATION OF CREDIT SLAVES.

they are all crooks upon crooks.


WE DESERVE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE NOW, THAT WOULD STIMULATE OUR ECONOMY AND GIVE A BREAK TO ALL BUSINESSES.


THE CROOKS NEED TO GO TO JAIL: BUSH, ROVE, PAULSON.

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One thing missing....
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 30, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Nancy Pelosi factor..playing politics with all of our money. Does she know anything about how to form bi-partisan support for anything.

Like Bush, she is supposed to lead - they both failed miserably.

The timing and tone of her speech suggested she wanted the vote not to pass - blame is more fun than solving a problem!

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» RE: RECALL NANCY PELOSI Posted by: edgar_michel

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and now, the REST of the story...
Posted by: AnIndependentThinker on Sep 30, 2008 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Besides this grotesque malfeasance and malice contempt of the American citizens (not including house democrats in this definition), there may even be a more sinister, more devious basis for this "revolt." What if this whole ploy was in fact created as a "maverick" distraction by the McCain camp? With all the negative (and rightfully so) publicity of McCain's air-headed VP, what better thing to do than create a diversion tactic to keep the media off the Palin subject, and more critically, keep the public in a panic to not think about the VP...and sadly, thus is the REAL reason McCain went to Washington. He initiated a bar room free-for-all --- not on behalf of the American people, but so he could make a failed attempt to win the presidency. Worse than Bush, worse than Cheney, and HORRIBLE for America. What a piece of work this man is, and some of us ALMOST fell for it.

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» Walk Away from the Huff(Obama) Post Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Justice First, Then Bailout to US
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 30, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First We MUST hold all Responsible who have caused this Current National Disaster- CEO'sCFO'sCOO's Boardmembers and Politicans (John and His Staff & Advisors).they did not Justfuck Up Our country (Treason),but have caused Global Repercussions.
The FBI investigation into this financial apocalypse should be Billed as Investigations in to Anti Ameircan Activities - ie Treason.Start With Phil and Wendy Gramm. Then lets see how many 'Public Servants' want to Fuck with US!
The ONLY Bill they should be Passing is One who Clearly demonstrates the Principles of the 21st Century American 'Bottoms Up' Economic Stratedgy. Cut US the Checks, We'll Pay our Loans and even spend a little on a middle class Luxury- A $300.00 Outfit!Not $3,000.00 or $30,000.00 or $300,000.00 - We aren't Cindy McCain ya Know,We don't need a Elizabethian High Collared Gown ( at $3,000- the thing becomes a gown not a dress, regardless of length!)
So EVERY time OLD Johnny Boy says let's not look Back, he's reminding US exactly what and WHO he is hiding...Gramm over his Right Shoulder, and Davis over his Left!

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» All Roads Lead Back to Democrats Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Let's see how these same conservatives fare after the election in March 2009 when nobody's watching.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT on Sep 30, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's 5 weeks before election day when they know voters will pay attention just like gas prices. After the election is over, the economic pounding will return in full force.

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» Off shore Drilling ban expired: Drill Baby Drill Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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A question... Anyone?
Posted by: photon's feather on Sep 30, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just about an hour ago, I watched yesterday's Democracy Now program. (www.democracynow.org)

In the interview with Amy Goodman, Dennis Kucinich referred to a [nameless] former head of the FDIC who had told a group of Congressional members:

for the last several weeks, the Bush administration has been tightening up on the practices of banks, and are forcing them to have bigger reserves, which would help to create the current tight-money policies that we're seeing.

Not a direct quote, but a fairly accurate summary. (That last clause is almost verbatim.)

Who is this former head of the FDIC? Is it William Isaac, who wrote an article for the Washington Post, describing the bailout as unnecessary?

A Better Way to Aid Banks

Or is there a second former head of the FDIC that is against this bailout?

(If Kucinich did name this person, I certainly missed it - twice. I am not referring to Richard Fisher, Pres of the Dallas Fed Reserve, reported by Kucinich to be against the bailout.)

Curiouser and curiouser...

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the democratic leadership was still ready to sell us out...
Posted by: dauphin534 on Sep 30, 2008 5:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author and most of the posters are failing to note how this bill was bullshit. just as the so-called fisa "compromise" was bull-shit. the democratic leadership should finally be seen by all as morally bankrupt. we've always known repubs were bad, but i am thankful so many republicans started listening to the constituents and worried about their reelection chances with such a negatively viewed bill. when will more democrats follow their lead?

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» RE: I'm not a Republican, Posted by: oregoncharles

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Prediction for the Bailout
Posted by: US Citizen on Sep 30, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prediction on the Bailout. The Bailout will pass.
For a few days, Wall Street will have a large rally. Some nimble traders will make billions of dollars in stock deals. These nimble traders will be praised widely in the media for their acumen, but they have actually received inside detailed information ahead of time, including exact timing and specifics of the bailout actions. After a few days, the market will start falling again, and we will be in the same financial crisis we are now, except minus $700 billion..

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October and Rovian ideology
Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 30, 2008 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, it's October tomorrow. Bush is shunned by most Republicans now at the end of his presidency. He and his Sec. of the Treasury, Paulson propose a bailout plan with no oversight and unending refill options for 2 years. This is a perfect plan in that now almost ALL Republican's can show (right before the election) how they shun such measures, call for additional financial constraints and conservatism and are distancing themselves from the Bush administration. Democrats will be left holding a bag of stinking fish while most of us have suffered the most grievous crime in history. One that has been planned for years: witness the lack of regulation, assurances that the free market society will police themselves and the blatant handouts to this crew year after year after year.

We are completely being f'd.

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» hmmm Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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And...
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 30, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I think the bansk dug their own hole and now they are going to have to claw their way back out. Why the heck should we pay for them when we are having a hard enough time trying to support ourselves?

Jiff
Is your ISP watching you?

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Sour Grapes
Posted by: Romans1 on Sep 30, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Conservative Republicans simply had more guts and ethics than the Democrats in Congress. And it just kills you so you won't admit it.

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» THE DEMS DONT NEED US Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: Well, no... Posted by: oregoncharles
» Yes, true conservatives still exist. Posted by: countingdaisies

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Republican thinking is certainly fascinating
Posted by: Beck on Sep 30, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Head Republican Bush comes up with a plan for his Republican buddies who botched up Wall Street. Plan is pushed by Republicans Paulson and other lackies. Republican McCain, who has been bland on economics so far, is so stirred, he "cancels" his campaign and his appearance at a long-scheduled debate to return to Washington, where he has missed many, many votes. Bad bill is tampered with, voted on, fails. Due mainly to Republican "no" votes. Yet Democrats are blamed for the failure (last week Democrats were blamed for NOT backing the bill).

Democrat Pelosi apparently is suddenly so powerful in oration that SHE caused the failure, and the switching of many Republican votes from Ay to Nay. I never before saw this ability of hers, but apparently, even though relatively few Republicans were reported as being in the room, and those that remained for Pelosi's speech were not seen to appear particularly fascinated by it, the mere words of Pelosi were enough to turn Republicans away from their own consciences and sense of duty. (Memo to anyone: something must be done to mute the power of Pelosi. If she manages to remain in office, no one will ever again be able to vote their own conscience.)

There must be nothing so comfortable as being a Republican. Nothing, if you're Republican, is EVER your fault or your responsibility or especially your duty.

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» Republicans are scumbags. Posted by: andabottleof_rum

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As a Conservative Republican
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Sep 30, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do I get a invite now to the cool parties? I was happy that it failed. We need to get off the credit hog no matter what side your on. Its still Ironic how The House Speaker is in a rush along with Barny Frank to give President Bush what he wants.

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Liberals also led this fight
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Sep 30, 2008 6:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a Dkos diary by Democratic representative Tom Udall explaining his No vote.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/29/113437/784

Note the second comment - MY plan to restore liquidity to Main Street. Shoveling cash at Wall Street is classic trickle down - and won't work.

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» Liberals also led this fight Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Repubs want to buy your schools, water systems
Posted by: scheherezade on Sep 30, 2008 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many of the Republicans who voted against the bailout were hardcore neocon ideologues.

They know tinkle-down, privatization-driven economic theory's dead in the water if Congress steps in and mitigates 'market' discipline.

After the economy tanks (which will happen regardless of a bailout) they're hoping to help their pals buy out now-lucrative, sure-thing infrastructure investments like roads, bridges and water systems.

If Congress fails to prevent this, through a progressive, bottom-up style stimulus (as described elsewhere on this site), we can expect further economic devolution -- to where a small, feudal-style owner class wields military/policing control over a large, uneducated, unhealthy, working poor.

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We have only 72 hours to lobby Congress
Posted by: DorothyNed on Sep 30, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again GWB did not disclose what was in a bill. Or rather what wasn't in it.

We have 72 hours to send a message to Congress to do the right thing.

Here are the critical points missing in the bailout bill, which was defeated.

1. The bailout bill had NO enforcement provisions for the so-called oversight group that was going to monitor Wall Street's spending of the $700 billion;

2. It had NO penalties, fines or imprisonment for any executive who might steal any of the people's money;

3. It did NOTHING to force banks and lenders to rewrite people's mortgages to avoid foreclosures -- this bill would not have stopped ONE foreclosure!;

4. It had NO teeth anywhere, using words like "suggested" when referring to the government being paid back for the bailout. A bailout bill MUST have a PAYBACK clause with a specified deadline.

Over 200 economists wrote to Congress stating this bill might actually WORSEN the "financial crisis" and cause even MORE of a meltdown.

It is now up to US, the voters, to keep the pressure on. Remember YOU are the one paying for this bailout.

And remember if items #1 - #4 are not in the bill, who benefits in the END? The fat cat CEO's and fat cat stock holders. NOT you and me.

Contact your Congressperson TODAY. NO flat out bailout. All four items above MUST be in any bailout bill.

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Nancy Pelosi: JOKE
Posted by: fanny666 on Sep 30, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Almost Bush-like in the "Say one thing and do precisely the exact opposite thing" way, her floor speech before the vote:

"Our message to Wall Street is this: the party is over. The era of golden parachutes for high-flying Wall Street operators is over. No longer will the U.S. taxpayer bailout the recklessness of Wall Street."

Huh?

Support Cindy Sheehan, who is running against Nancy Pelosi

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Write/call: Bail out America - Take her back from Corporate State - Give her back to her people!
Posted by: Lifesabeach on Sep 30, 2008 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To all elected public servants representing the people of America:

I make the following recommendations regarding our economic crisis – STAND UP FOR AMERICA – Take her back from the corporate state and give her back to her people! I am concerned about the legality and constitutionality of the current economic practices in the US. Here’s how we can get back on track:

1. Freeze all foreclosures for Americans
2. Increase HOPE for Homeowner’s Act – keeping all Americans in a home, providing homes for the homeless recently [since 2006 when A.R. M.’s began causing foreclosures] foreclosed Americans
3. Emergency flat rate mortgage rate of 3-4% for ALL Americans – stimulates economy, housing market
4. Emergency increase in wages to a LIVING WAGE and FULL BENEFIT packages – provide all corporations who provide this a huge tax break – stimulates economy without penalizing corporations
5. Emergency Instant Heavy-handed Regulation of Wall St. – To be rethought and scaled back after economic stability with a long-range regulatory bill
6. Broker a deal with America’s wealthiest – They have proven success over financial management. Let them solve America’s Wall Street crisis and govern the ‘bail-out’.
7. End the War in IRAQ – Use this $9 billion per month to stimulate the economy - create jobs in green energy to remove our dependence on foreign oil, poor money into education in specific ways – fund the mandates, professional development, reward innovation, teach the 3R’s through the arts and electives, increase apprenticeship programs to reduce drop-outs, get in front of the parade regarding new jobs and bring them into the field of education.

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Election Hacking
Posted by: aonghus36 on Sep 30, 2008 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting that this financial crisis is just the thing to get people's minds off of the probability that our electronic voting machines are going to be hacked into, in order to sway the elections, probably to John McCain. It won't just be Repubs, either. People around the world like in China, Israel, and Russia will be interested in who gets elected here.

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Republican Psycho Trash
Posted by: Traven on Sep 30, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over the last twenty years had it not been for the 1700+ radio stations owned by Clear Channel, that bastion of right-wing group think only a true Nazi could love, and the twenty odd right-wing think tanks well funded by the richest 10,000 American families who together pumped the American body politic full mindless fantasies that someday you too, could be a billionaire, if only the market were set free; the ideological pure believers whether Republican congressmen or the typical Limbaugh listener wouldn’t have a clue what to say.

That these fools still repeat it now, only confirms their slavish devotion to prove they are truly clueless.

Their beloved capitalist system died in 1929, it was replaced by monopoly state capitalism in stages: WWII, the cold War and by the time the vast majority of us alive today were born State capitalism was a done deal.

Depending on which economist you ask and if He/She is honest, they will admit the United States has spent somewhere between 3-5 trillion dollars on Nuclear weapons production alone since 1945.

(FYI: The government and industry and most policy hacks do not like to talk about these figures it actually may approach 7 trillion.)

The nuclear weapons machine is a vast industry; at its height it employed hundreds of thousands: engineers, scientists, high skilled machinists, along with the thousands of support workers in facilities to design it, build it, test it, and then build vast secure facilities to store in and guard it – all curtsey of the US tax payer. The list of the hundreds of small and large corporations involved who made money off this vast industrial enterprise is mind numbing.

That is just the Nuclear weapons part, now thrown in the rest of the defense industry and multiply all those companies, and spending by a factor of a thousand and you might get a clue to what really drives the great American economy.

The whole American economy - every hot dog stand all the way up to the most fancy car dealer selling Italian race cars to Hollywood actors has depended on these massive outlays of billions over decades to keep going the whole machine humming alone – without these vast public expenditures the economy falls back into 1929.

Remember the pyramids?

That sometime over the last thirty-five years the richest 10,000 American families decided to dismantle the production of basic consumer side of our economy and send it overseas is the why, ( the short why), so many millions can no longer afford a mortgage.

Thrown in greedy banks, and investment firms, whose lobbyists pay off Republicans congressmen at ratios much higher than Democrats and the picture becomes clear real fast if one bothers to see reality.

Starting with S&L ‘reform’ in 1980s under Regan, through the 1999 passage of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act Republicans weighted in and voted just like the lobbyists wanted them too, yes many Democrats went along in 1999, but it was Republican party and their devotion to the ‘free market’ that led the charge for years.

The infinite wisdom of this free market reform can be seen here:

Between 1984 and 2004, the number of FDIC-regulated banks declined from 14,392 to 7,511. The proportion of industry assets held by the ten largest banks increased from 21 percent in 1960 to 60 percent in 2005.

It’s called monopoly state capitalism, run by fat cats to enrich fat cats and free enterprise and the free market did not enter the minds of the lobbyists who wrote these bills and it was bought and paid for by our 10,000 richest families and the whores of the Republican Party did what they were paid to do and voted it in.

Some would call all this a crime, some might even call it treason, but only a raving lunatic right-wing fool would call it courage.

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do not pass go . . .
Posted by: Quasar on Sep 30, 2008 10:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They didn't get social security so they are gunning for this 700 billion. They are stalling just so they can pressure congress into cutting that money loose down stream toward, where else, Wall St.

Obama can make his mark right now by pressuring his dems to do the right thing.

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If Only Joshua Could Understand the Part 9/11 Played
Posted by: edgar_michel on Sep 30, 2008 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11 was a radical approach intended to shore up slumping defense industries and increase capital circulation.

The fact that practically no-one got it then is the reason that everyone is now looking at this implosion of the economy.

When a country ceases to produce anything of real value and only uses its military might to force other countries to deal with it, it is only common sense that the economy is hyper-inflated and has lost most of its real value, otherwise the people of the world would b e beating a path to your door.

If this country had a reasonable leader in 2001, the necessary adjustments would have been begun then and not now, when adjustment is no longer the correct term for the needed alterations.

If, rather than foist a calculated deception upon the American people in order to go to war and boost the economy through defense industries spending, this administration might have taken that 100's of billions to trillions of dollars and pumped it into higher education and research so that alternative energy solutions might have been vigorously sought and found.

The idea was that the call to war would boost production of military hardware, the only high tech commodity the U.S. leads the world in, which would boost American productivity which would somehow turn all this bad paper to gold.

Fortunately, the 9/11 attack didn't have the universal appeal to war its architects had hoped for and there wasn't, also fortunately, the carte blanch scramble of young people to the local recruiting office this administration had hoped for.

When Americans look back on this time they will be disheartened to realize just how gullible they actually were. The war in Iraq didn't save our economy and it won't save our economy, all that happened is that 2,726 good people lost their lives on September 11, 2001, when the towers collapsed according to plan, which produced no real value, except perhaps Larry Silverstein became significantly richer.

We need to develop an alternative to oil pronto, and Americans should have been doing this for the past 30 years, or ever since the oil embargo of 1973, if this economy has any chance of surviving to the end of the decade.

We need real products that have real value on the international market that earn real profit, not abstract paper that only has value as long as no-one knows what its worth.

We need no more 9/11’s to stimulate the war industries and we certainly do not need to bail out these rough and tumble gamblers on Wall Street who foisted this whole affair upon us in the first place.

The American people had better wake up and realize that they are being fed deception after deception and they are swallowing each and every one of them in the order received.

What we need now is for the value of the economy to be properly assessed and accepted and then proceed forward on a much, much tighter budget and with a comprehensive regulatory body empowered to enforce sorely needed regulation, until such time as the American people can again compete on the international stage with real value, without the need for periodic calls to war to shore up their economic fictions.

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Another Act of Terrorism by the name I shall not speak but occupies 1600...
Posted by: Turiye on Sep 30, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... Pennsylvania Avenue. He Terrorizes the old folk, those that are not well read ergo do not really know what the hell is happening yet if the Terrorist and those on the other side of the aisle acting as surrogates of Terror INC.
Why would or should we have allowed Congress dare proclaim Yea, what was it, 8,9 days ago that the sky was falling? Those that sit on the wrong side of the aisle act as buffoons entertaining one another due to no regulation, left to run amok unchecked as one more example of Executive Over reach, as these kids between the ages of 23-35, played with workers pensions, 401K's, predatory mortgage lenders balking at telling the truth to hard working 1st time buyers exactly what a Balloon Mortgage or Teaser Rate meant, acting as players at a Black Jack table in Vegas. Blaming the loanees, the students, those that are NOT white men all the while the name I refuse to utter steps out from his lair and Terrorizes each time, do you not remember the announcement when we invaded Iraq? Very similiar, very unremarkable in the sense it is to be expected from that person whom has decimated OUR Constitution, Tortures, Kidnaps, Occupys Nations just because, the World is in ruins, financially, we are a World at war, we are still acting as the grand Provocateurs about Iran, and the World lays in ruin. What he has ruined with blatant, egregious acts so evil all the while a dumb ass smirk on that idiot face of his. Enough! NO WAR NO WHERE NO MORE. The money will flow in. This is a grand F$$K OFF to us because he wants to, he is that juvenile and evil at the same time to do such great harm and put such large scale fear into the hearts of the average Joe/Josephine, piss off Murderer!
This is as Terrorists Ply you with Lies

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Oh, I get it...
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Sep 30, 2008 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the R's who voted against the bailout bill did so because they're meanies who are just plain evil, whereas the D's who voted the exact same way did so because they're angels who always base their votes on truly altruistic reasons.

Maybe there was something else going on: of the 38 incumbent members of Congress from both parties who are considered vulnerable in the coming election, 30 voted against the bill, and only 8 supported the bill; by contrast, members of Congress from relatively safe districts were evenly divided — 197 for to 198 against. From all reports, the public was massively against this bill and was making their skepticism known to their members of congress, who voted accordingly in those instances where a close race compelled them to listen to their constituencies.

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» RE: Oh, I get it... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Obviously you don't ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Obviously you don't ... Posted by: Ahimsa

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Do not Vote Democrat or Republican
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Sep 30, 2008 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr Holland has a bias.

He is quite clearly a Democrat.

He quite clearly had a lot of trouble even pointing out the fact that the Democrats largely pushed this bill and the Republicans largely opposed it.

Its not his fault I guess. It is inherently human to hold titanic double standards for those in your group and those outside your group. Now if only everyone realized this about themselves perhaps the human race would not fall victim to team/group/tribal thinking time after time.


Now I am not encouraging people to vote Republican, a $700 billion Iraq war bill largely given to us by Republicans is just as bad as a $700 billion bailout bill largely given to us by Democrats.


Until the American public wakes up to the fact that neither of the 2 main parties represents us anymore, we will continue to get stuck with the bills on all sorts of illegal wars of aggression, corporate welfare, and pork barrel spending.


It is time to vote 3rd party (actually long past time).

If you want real change you have to change who you vote for (and become more self aware about your own tribe based thinking).

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» How do you figure? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Democrat? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How else do you explain your article's bias? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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This Is Just Posturing, Bailout Is Coming Folks
Posted by: cherylholmes on Sep 30, 2008 12:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These assholes on Capitol Hill are only posturing..they know they'll pass a bill to bail these rich bastards out, they're toying with us to get us sufficiently riled up!

Oct 1st begins the official use of the military to quash dissent in this country...maybe this is the October Surprise...our uprising, the military police state enacted, and FINALLY our government will get to use those domestic concentration camps.
The bailout will pass Michael but not before they have incited us into rioting in the streets so they can start killing us and locking us up forever...kinda like "poking the bear"

I wrote the below comments before I realized today what's really going on here...cheryl



Time for some good old Robinhood Political Justice..I'm so damned sick and tired of these greedy ass vultures I could scream! In fact I have been screaming about it all day! I don't know about any of you, but I simply can't afford to lose any more than I already have.

Biden stated Sunday, entitlements would have to be slashed to fund all the bailouts...that means..and he specified, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Veteran's benefits, food stamps, AFDC, Head Start, all children's programs and elderly/senior programs under DHS. Why not just euthanize us and get it over with?

Oh that's right, then they wouldn't be able to "torture" us to death by starvation, sickness, homelessness...and we all know how they LOVE torture.

Entitlements, according to Biden are 40% of the federal budget. We, the poor are going to have to pay the most with our lives so these rich bastards can maintain their rich status....anyone who bitches abt socialism and agrees to the bailout is a liar...it's all abt when fascism becomes socialism and we will ALL lose. They will be no paying back the government...face it..no jobs, no income, means no way to make ANY mortgage payment so the banks will fail regardless of the bailout. The bailout isn't going to benefit anyone except these rich bastards! First they make a boatload of cash swindling prospective homeowners with their predatory lending practices, knowing full well they could never AFFORD to pay those mortgages, and now they intend to make yet another boatload of cash because we're stupid enough to allow it AGAIN! Meanwhile VULTURE Guiliani is circling Congress, his law firm gearing up to take over managing the financial institutions bailout funds..Lord knows the rethugs owe him..he's kissed enough of their asses...Payback time!

So, is this the October Surprise? Or will there be more?
I happen to think these bastards in Congress are just posturing because of the upcoming elections and WILL pass this no matter what we say or do. October 1st they have the help of the military to terrorize us legally and quash dissent...maybe they can start using those concentration camps huh?

Here's a list of the next bailouts...get ready...

foreign banks
credit card banks (credit card defaults)
insurance companies (Ike losses)
car manufacturers

Who am I forgetting???

Hold on, it's going to be a rough ride from now on!

Oh we have to bailout "Golden Sacks"
and UBS too!

Cheryl

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No, the markets did not crash
Posted by: GuitarBill on Sep 30, 2008 12:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The market lost 10% yesterday and today the market gained back 484 points of 700 points lost on Monday.

A 10% fall in the market is not a "crash".

If you want to talk about a market crash let's talk about Monday, October 19, 1987. On that day the market fell 508 points to 1739 (22.6%). By the end of October, stock markets in Hong Kong had fallen 45.8%, Australia 41.8%, Spain 31%, the United Kingdom 26.4%, the United States 22.68%, and Canada 22.5%.

Get a grip.

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How do you spell Economic Boom?
Posted by: flyingfox on Sep 30, 2008 1:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an alternative to the bail out of AIG. Not sure if the same principal would work with $700,000,000,000.


I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.
So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that
equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends
$25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband
and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college - it'll be there
Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car - create jobs
Invest in the market - capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who
lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back.
And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out a puny $1000.00 economic incentive that is being proposed by
one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's
bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back
to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector
bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.


Sure it's a crazy idea that can work.

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the
$85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or in
Washington DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5
billion because $25.5 billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

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New Question: why is OBAMA FOR BAILOUT along with McCAIN?
Posted by: PointMan on Sep 30, 2008 2:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, could Obama & McClown both be working for the same Wall Street corporate crime gang?

Go figure.

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» Why of course they do Posted by: GuitarBill
» Duh! This is what I've been saying. Posted by: common intelligence

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Don't be fooled by the window dressing.....
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 30, 2008 2:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conservatives are just trying to make themselves look good. They know how to work the public opinion. Make the lefties look greedy and the righties look like 'apple-pie
Americans' They are'nt. They're the same corrupt bastards they always were. They just want to make us think they are'nt.
If you saw the vote results we saw the democrats supporting the bailout and the republicans not. Anybody fooled by this dog and pony show needs a brain transplant...today!!
In the 'Great Depression' Washington tried to prop up the markets. It worked for a short time then blammo...the depression. The same thing will happen if DC bails out Wall St again. With the democrats leading the charge,do you think they've become the sellouts the republicans have always been? No they just proved they are the same party.
They say they want to help out 'Main St.'. Well in my town main St. is full of businesses. The folks that need help live on 3rd or 4th street. So once again they've proved they are'nt concerned about real people just real wealthy people.
We,the People, have to keep up the pressure on these bums. Call DC everyday. Light the fires of public indignation and put their feet in it. It was'nt the conservatives that won this first battle for the people...it was US!!!! Conservatives understand 'Pass this law and you don't have a job anymore.' But it's a victory for the people and if we ease up on them we'll fall to the money sword.
DON'T STOP!! YOU'RE ALL DOING THE RIGHT THING.
refusing to get cornholed for Wall St.
Let the greedy suffer the losses they deserve. If we bail them out,WE OWN THEM!!!
By the way.....Has anyone ever proffered the idea of 'Flood upwardly economics'? You know, give the people,the real people,a share of 700billion or the 2 trillion they're seeking.
They say a person is worth 6.9 million..each. If they gave us all 1% of that,or, $69,000, debts would get paid,people would invest,start businesses and basically pump money back into the system. Unlike the rich,who would just find another loophole to shove 700 billion in.
SUPPORT THE NEEDY,NOT THE GREEDY

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Democrats attacked GSE regulators in 2004
Posted by: dover23 on Sep 30, 2008 2:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
time for the fanatical Dems to take their heads out of their butts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

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Plan 9 from Outer Space
Posted by: Sharkie on Sep 30, 2008 4:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Plan 9 from Outer Space

On August 29, 2008, $9,645,725,555,640.02 was the total public outstanding debt of the United States. By September 29, 2008, it was $9,945,578,231,981.59. That was an increase in debt of approximately one billion dollars for every day of September or$300 billion for the ninth month alone. One has to wonder why regime Treasury Secretary Paulson needs Congress to okay a paltry $700billion when in another few months he will have added at least that much and more to the nation’s debt anyhow.

In the movie Plan 9 from Outer Space, the characters evolved around a science-fiction like inability to ward off predators from another galaxy. They simply stood with arms pointed straight down, emitted a faint scream and let the spacemen have their way with them. I fear this same inability has appeared again from outer space, this time in the form of everyone ignoring current monthly statements of public debt, while actually Plan 9 is busy adding billions monthly to the total.

We have seen the manipulation of investments that have given a select few the freedoms to fleece all of human kind. There was the Financial Services Regulatory Relief Act of 2006 that created still another economic panic requiring us now to lend in a “counter-cyclic” manner when normal fiscal criteria counsels “don’t lend.” We have become possessed with such lending, such financial relief and ensuing stimulus. It has left us with a glaring stare, one that causes men who know that things are going quite wrong to say that things are fundamentally sound, a sort of Plan 9 effect on earthlings. We may as well have our spinal cords severed. Let’s see; blank stare with a wide-eyed gaze, un-founded optimism in panic stricken markets, a central bank that knows what's good for us, oh yeah, they’re here alright. It has to be, what else could explain it?

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Enough with the language, already
Posted by: Ahimsa on Sep 30, 2008 5:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come one
Can we please not use the Wall Street / Main Street stupid slogan anymore?
Can we use the beautiful language that we have at hand to express things without soundbyte language?
No wonder kids are writing school papers in text messaging lingo!

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» RE: nough with the language, already Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com

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parrotuya
Posted by: parrotuya on Sep 30, 2008 7:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let the markets collapse first and then pick up the pieces afterward. Imagine if Hoover tried to bail out Wall St. back in '29. What would have happened? Hoover gets 4 more years and the party continues until a bigger collapse occurs. Let those Wall St. geniuses eat cake!

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The gift horse
Posted by: Jeanne on Sep 30, 2008 10:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first post said it. We shouldn't be looking too hard at the fact the conservative Republicans scuttled it -- as did a lot of progressive Democrats. The rejection of this bill was a strange marriage of the conservative republican and the progressive dems who could see nothing in it for their constituents. I saw Rep. Culbertson (sp) from Texas on Rachel Maddow's show today, and I have to say, I bought his reasoning on voting against the bill. He tried to push aside Rachel's effort to cast it as a tactical Rep vs Dem contest and pointed out that the bill was against everything he, as a fiscally conservative republican believed in. It was, likewise, completely repugnant to progressive democrats like Dennis Kucinich. I think the only ones who want to see it pass as is are the banking interests and those in Congress that they own. Wall St. spoke today with one of the largest gains in history. So, what is the rush, precisely? I think we have time to consider the law that is going to get passed and I think Congress should weigh it very carefully. They need to get expert advice from economists who are not vested in paychecks emanating from their government or their Wall St. connections. I see no need to rush into any plan that isn't adequately vetted by honest, unbiased experts.

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Do you have the courage to stand up for Freedom?
Posted by: drblack on Oct 1, 2008 2:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you have the courage to stand up for Freedom and America?

No bailout unless regular Americans are given help,regulations are placed on ALL financial systems(hedge funds included.)
Bankruptcy law is put back to where it was before it was changed a few years ago in favor of the credit card companies. No one should go broke getting medical attention and strict limits are placed on interest.
Foreclosures are to be stopped and loans renegotiated.
No business can be "Too Big To Fail" and those that are to be broken up.
Business must pay its taxes and NO ONE can have secret off-shore accounts.
Those who created this mess should be investigated and treated like the criminals they are. No more shielding of the rich.
There must be harsh penalties for anyone who breaks laws related to finance.

This is your chance to save the USA and restore Freedom,Justice and the Constitution.

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'Was going to rave, but Thanks for everyone Reflecting true Insight here.
Posted by: common intelligence on Oct 1, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wrote a huge piece on this vote the other day to post.
But Joshua and all you commenting bloggers got it covered.
GOOD JOB. No sense in me adding dedundancy.

Now Let's keep it up.
Thanks to to the 94 Demos that stopped the bill. They played and important roll that must be recognized. The demo "pro" vote are traitors to the people.
O, and one important thing.......
That friggin knee shackin' cave-in woman Pelosi needs to have her as kicked! She's gutless and scared cause she's gots no balls to stand up to Bush Terrorists.

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There was NO DEFEAT - you morons
Posted by: ashbaines on Oct 1, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WAIT JUST A MINUTE -- Bush and the FED pumped $630 billion into the sytem Monday morning... just before the vote. Not a peep anywhere but a Bloomberg story... like the weather.

The NEXT DAY - Bush signs a $630 billion dollar spending bill... WHAT? we are supposed to think it's the same money?

And now we are still hearing about the $700 billion bailout.

They've spent 1 TRILLION, 260 BILLION in TWO DAYS !?!?!? and they want MORE????

Why are these men still breathing? -- Where are the gallows? the pitchforks?--the Jacobins??? --

NOt a PEEP anywhere but Crooks & Liars and Bloomberg.... not a fucking peep!!

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» Bush always gets what he wants. Posted by: countingdaisies
 
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