COMMENTS: 69
America's Gulag Just Keeps Growing
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The United States continues to rank first among all nations in both total prison/jail population and per capita incarceration rates. The United States has held first place for decades, followed by China (with more than four times our population) at 1.6 million and Russia at 885,670, according to the International Centre for Prison Studies at King's College in London.
America's prison population explosion is fed in good part by the failed drug war policies of the past 30-plus years. Back in 1980, around 50,000 people were incarcerated for drug law violations. The total is now roughly 500,000. And this number does not even include hundreds of thousands of parolees and probationers who are incarcerated for technical violations, such as a drug relapse, nor does it include nondrug offenses committed under the influence of drugs, or to support a drug habit, or crimes of violence committed by drug sellers.
The Liptak piece describes criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized countries as being mystified and appalled by the number of Americans incarcerated and length of the prison sentences. "The U.S. pursues the war on drugs with an ignorant fanaticism," said Vivian Stern, a research fellow at the Centre for Prison Studies at King's College in London. In the past Europeans came to America to study the prison system, but now they look at U.S. policies to see what not to do.
Two powerful forces are at play today. On the one hand, public opinion strongly supports alternatives to incarceration for nonviolent and especially low-level drug law violators -- and state legislatures around the country are beginning to follow suit. The paramount example to date is Prop. 36, the Californian "treatment instead of incarceration" ballot initiative in 2000 that won with 61 percent of the vote notwithstanding the opposition of political and law enforcement officials. On the other hand, the prison-industrial complex has become a powerful force in American society, able to make the most of the political inertia that sustains knee-jerk, lock-'em-up policies. There are some prosecutors quoted in the Times story who try to spin the draconian sentences as the byproduct of democracy: that elected officials are just responding to their constituents' desire to lock up the bad guys and throw away the keys. There's no doubt some truth in this, but far more insidious is how many politicians exploit fears about drugs to make themselves look "tough on crime."
Voters should be outraged that their tax money continues to be wasted on failed drug war policies. It's time for a change.
Despite hundreds of billions of dollars spent and millions of Americans incarcerated, illegal drugs remain cheap, potent and widely available in every community; and the harms associated with them -- addiction, overdose, and the spread of HIV/AIDS and hepatitis -- continue to mount. Meanwhile, the war on drugs has created new problems of its own, including rampant racial disparities in the criminal justice system, broken families, increased poverty, unchecked federal power and eroded civil liberties. Our elected officials need new metrics to determine whether progress is being made.
It's time for a new bottom line for U.S. drug policy -- one that focuses on reducing the cumulative death, disease, crime and suffering associated with both drug misuse and drug prohibition. A good start would be enacting short- and long-term national goals for reducing the problems associated with both drugs and the war on drugs. Such goals should include reducing social problems like drug addiction, overdose deaths, the spread of HIV/AIDS from injection drug use, racial disparities in the criminal justice system, and the enormous number of nonviolent offenders behind bars. Federal drug agencies should be judged -- and funded -- according to their ability to meet these goals.
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 25, 2008 12:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: williameon on Apr 25, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush/Chainey
Stinking War!
It's Big Business
A Dirty Business.
The Big Business of War!
Put everyone in jail.
Making widgets for 25 cents an hour!
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road!
Hello Maximum Security.
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Posted by: dave1616 on Apr 25, 2008 4:57 AM
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please see , www.discussrace.com
AND www.strategytalk.org
"usa & the america's"
"my biracial american experience"
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Posted by: bluesmanjohnson on Apr 25, 2008 4:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obvious solution: a modified Libertarian/Progressive approach. Legalize it and tax it. Let the soft stuff and organic stuff flow freely, regulate harder drugs (i.e., make people go to licensed clubs and stay a certain time), and prohibit and concentrate on the things that lead to serious public health problems, like meth. This is so simple and obvious, which explains why we can't get our sh*t together on this issue.
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» It worked in Europe
Posted by: robbie.seal
» As succinctly as I've heard it...
Posted by: Anon12
» RE: As succinctly as I've heard it...
Posted by: liberalibrarian
» The US has managed to create a level of FEAR...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: It worked in Europe
Posted by: jroth420
» "Prohibit things that lead to serious public health problems.."
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: zeofredo on Apr 25, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personal freedom: the next big commodity boom!
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» Irrational?
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Irrational?
Posted by: zeofredo
» RE: Irrational?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Irrational?
Posted by: e rice
» The USA is already a Police State
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The USA is already a Police State
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Apr 25, 2008 6:50 AM
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The so called law of the land has been out of control since before the Spanish American war. The numbers of innocent inmates has topped 60% since 2001. NO ONE IS DEALING WITH THIS! The American legal system has never been legal it was adopted from English common Law in Whole Cloth. No one ever Voted this legal system into being. WE HAVE NEVER BEEN OUT OF THE MONARCHYS RULE in the Courthouse.
It took less than twenty five years to put us back into a taxation slavery and no one has bitched. The taxes you pay on Salaries are not legal you pay them because you are told to. There EXISTS NO LAW COVERING INCOME TAX YOU PAY IT BECAUSE YOU ARE A GOOD SLAVE! You have even placed an illegal system in charge of your welfare and bow and scrape to its wishes. You are living the life you do because you would rather have JOE be responsible for your safety. You will continue to live with the result of that as long as you do nothing to change it!
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» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: Nightstallion
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: EncinoM
» I am scrolling sideways to read
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: Knobby
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Posted by: picket on Apr 25, 2008 7:36 AM
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This good ole USA needs some REAL Leadership but $$$$$$$$$ and profit rules...soooo What can we do????
Keep up the GOOD fight maybe truth and honor wins in the end.
Do not fall for Media PROPAGANDA. I hear people repeat deceptive statements all day long and in the end they will vote with the billionaires against their own BEST interests.
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Posted by: kungfoofighterx on Apr 25, 2008 7:47 AM
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Then there are the corporate prisons. What is that all about?
What about prison labor. How much military equipment is made by prisoners in the USA. They got to be making more than license plates.
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» The threat of rape
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: The threat of rape
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The threat of rape
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A crazy culture requires musical interpretation.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: jroth420
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Posted by: Mexitli on Apr 25, 2008 8:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Second, the market economy cannot handle the extra people.
Third, another purpose of locking up minorities is because it looks bad to white people when minorities do well in the economy and white guys struggle.
That's offensive to whites.
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» RE: It's not about DRUGS
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» completely agree
Posted by: e rice
» RE: It's not about DRUGS
Posted by: robert.noll
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Posted by: vasumurti on Apr 25, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Each year, the U.S. government spends more than $30 billion on the drug war and arrests over 1.5 million people on drug-related charges. Over 318,000 people are now behind bars in the U.S. for drug violations, greater than the total number of people incarcerated for all crimes in England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain combined.
Our government is calling for billions of dollars to fight a drug war it can't win. Roughly 75 percent of this money goes to enforcing laws and regulations, but only 15 percent goes to drug education and prevention, and a only a meager 10 percent goes to treatment for addicts.
During the 1950s, long-term prison sentences against drug users choked the courts, strained and disrupted prisons and drove black-market prices even higher. The latest casualty in the drug war has been our civil liberties: mandatory drug testing so we can all be “drug free”. Some of these tests have been struck down by the courts, where the government is the employer. But others have been upheld. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia denounced these drug tests as “an immolation of privacy and human dignity in symbolic opposition to drug use.”
Even putting America under martial law will not solve the nation's drug problem. Iran executes hundreds of drug offenders. Malaysia has hanged dozens of drug users in the past few years. In neither country has the drug problem receded. In fact, in Malaysia, the addiction rate continues to rise. On the other hand, the Dutch government, with its liberal social and political philosophy, tolerates drug use, and the addiction rate is declining.
According to a 2003 Zogby poll, two of every five Americans say “the government should treat marijuana the same way it treats alcohol: It should regulate it, control it, tax it, and only make it illegal for children.” Close to 100 million Americans, including over half of those between the ages of 18 and 50, have tried marijuana at least once. Military and police recruiters often have no alternative but to ignore past marijuana use by job seekers.
In 1996, California voters passed a law to regulate medical marijuana within the state. In 2000, voters in California approved an initiative allowing people who are arrested for simple possession of drugs to go through a rehabilitation program rather than through the court process that would result in prison. Since the program began, most agree it has been very successful. It results in less recidivism and is considered cheaper than imprisonment.
Rufus King, a Washington, DC lawyer who has served on the President's Commission on Law Enforcement and the Administration of Justice, calls the drug war, “A worthless crusade.” According to King, drug use is a social problem, not a law enforcement problem. He observes: “Cigarette use is declining through changes in cultural values in the population. Like most smokers and alcoholics, most users of illegal drugs poison themselves because they want to be intoxicated. No human force can do them much good until they want help.” King is optimistic that the current anti-drug hysteria will subside, and responsible and reasonable drug law policies will be adopted.
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» RE: nding the Drug War
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: vasumurti on Apr 25, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The use of wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping emerged during the Prohibition era. Roy Olmstead was a suspected bootlegger whom the government wished to search. It placed taps in the basement of his office building and on wires in the streets near his home. No physical entry into his office or home took place. Olmstead was convicted entirely on the basis of evidence from the wiretaps.
"In his appeal to the Supreme Court, Olmstead argued that the taps were a search conducted without a warrant and without probable cause, and that the evidence seized against him should have been excluded because it was illegally gathered. He also argued that his Fifth Amendment right not to be a witness against himself was violated.
"By a 5-4 vote, the Court rejected his arguments and upheld the government's power to wiretap without limit and without any Fourth Amendment restrictions, on the grounds that no actual physical intrusion had taken place.
"Olmstead's Fifth Amendment claim was also dismissed on the grounds that he had not been compelled to talk on the telephone, but had done so voluntarily. Thus the Court upheld the government's power to do by trickery and surreptitious means what it was not permitted to do honestly and openly. It wasn't until 1967, in a similar case involving gambling, that the Court overruled the Olmstead decision by an 8-1 margin and recognized that the Fourth Amendment applied to wiretapping and electronic surveillance.
"Interestingly, these cases arose in the context of crimes like bootlegging and gambling. During the past twenty years, the majority of wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping by both state and federal officials has been in cases involving drug dealing and gambling.
"Serious crimes of violence, such as homicide, assault, rape, robbery, and burglary, are rarely the target of electronic eavesdropping, which is not normally a useful tool in such cases.
"From the beginning, when wiretapping was virtually invented to enforce laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol, to the late 1960s, when gambling was a major target, to the present, when the use and sale of drugs other than alcohol are the main target, these intrusive devices have been used mostly to enforce laws aimed at punishing and proscribing personal conduct that society deems immoral.
"Because such conduct essentially involves private activities among consenting adults who are all likely to want to keep those activities secret, they are harder to investigate and prosecute than crimes like robbery or burglary, in which an unwilling victim will probably aid any investigation...the invasion of privacy inherent in wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping remains with us as part of the legacy of our attempts to criminalize personal conduct.
"The other major use of electronic eavesdropping has been to punish political dissent. For decades, former FBI director J. Edgar Hoover used wiretaps and other electronic devices to spy on political figures and citizens not yet suspected of having committed a crime. He built vast dossiers on their political activities and personal lives. Special units of local police called 'Red Squads' did the same."
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» RE: privacy and civil liberties
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Apr 25, 2008 9:06 AM
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You will never find the answer if they have you asking the wrong questions!
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» RE: The War on Drugs and the Corrections Complex is big BUSINESS!
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Apr 25, 2008 9:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The horror of it all!
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
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» RE: leagalize pot?
Posted by: Lauren
» mencken defined a puritan as
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: PaulK on Apr 25, 2008 9:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Little or no education against gangs. For that matter, no protection in school or outside of school against gangs picking on kids. Why don't they just set up a recruiting booth next to the vice-principal's office?
McFood. Kids wire out in school because of all the allergy-inducing chems in the food.
No reintegration into society. Guys get out with maybe $50 and that won't even pay the damage deposit on an apartment. Worse, they have no skills. So they throw bricks through windows and become lifers. No other choice. I hope we all enjoy paying for a million geritol convicts at $40,000 a year per head for 30 more years. That equals $1.2 trillion down the drain, and for nothing, bunkies. These old codgers no longer have any street cred at all, no particular reason to commit crimes, and might be just as happy pulling jobs, going fishing on the weekends and paying taxes.
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» RE: Other reasons that we put people in jail
Posted by: ALANHESTER
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Posted by: chiefwanadubie on Apr 25, 2008 9:31 AM
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» When the government
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: When the government
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: nomomorons on Apr 25, 2008 10:35 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Missing the OLD (Cold) War:
MaryEllen Kersch
As one who grew up in fear of the total obliteration of the planet, I never thought I would say this, but I sort of miss the Cold War these days. Not the diving under solid objects during “fall-out drills” in school, or being on the alert for strange-looking airplanes potentially carrying real weapons of mass-destruction, --those were not fond childhood memories. However, in retrospect, The Cold War united the people of our country in a sense of who we were and what we stood for. The United States, during that era, certainly earned its position as the moral leader of the world. The big difference between us and the Commies was that we valued human dignity. We set the standards, worldwide, for the proper treatment of people under all circumstances; we spoke out against torture, oppression, starvation. We urged all nations to be, as we were, compassionate to those less fortunate than us and courageous against those who degraded our fellow humans. We practiced the golden rule. We did it because we knew it was right.
Here we are, six years after some lunatics, who still remain free, committed atrocious acts against us and we seem to have lost the moral compass that guided us so well. During the Cold War, we never would have put children in prisons. (We even agonized and apologized for our interment camps of WWII!) But that is precisely what we are doing now, under some convoluted grant of power in the name of, but having nothing to do with, Homeland Security.
For over a year now, the Commissioners Court in Williamson County, Texas, has acted as contractual “provider” in a corrupt contract with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (known chillingly, appropriately, as ICE) for the administration of T Don Hutto “residential’ facility. T Don Hutto was a founder of the firm that owns and operates this prison-pretending-to-be-a-residential-facility. Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the largest --and hugely profitable-- private operator of prisons in America, actually runs this shameful facility on a pass-through contract with the County. Under this arrangement, CCA gets 2.8 million tax dollars a month (approximately $84,000 a year for each tender little body they “detain”), and the County gets a dollar a day a body. (Curious that the County is even involved; ICE could contract directly with CCA since CCA owns the prison in the first place. But, as some legal experts say, with the County in the loop, the County very likely shares any legal exposure. And the County collects $12-$15 thousand a month from the Feds for going along.)
The human beings held at T Don Hutto are not criminals; they are charged with no crimes, nor are they suspected of being a threat to us, or our homeland security. Many of the children are actually citizens of this country.
The Bush administration (and the Republican Williamson County Commissioner Court) justify this shameful partnership by citing their dedication to “family values.” Keeping the kids together with mom, you know.
Many experts say, and several governmental agencies (including Congressional groups) urge, that people awaiting disposition of their applications for amnesty and/or immigration ought to be equipped with an electronic device and allowed to go with responsible family members or church groups pending a decision by our authorities. It would be considerably cheaper—and far more humane. There are such programs in a number of other communities. But maybe they didn’t have a vacant prison owned by a corporation that donated lots of campaign dollars to lots of elected officials.
In the former era, during the Cold War, this is the sort of dishonorable thing the Commies would have done. But not the United States of America.
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Posted by: mom'z the word on Apr 25, 2008 10:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When our framers wrote the Constitution they were particularly astute to this nonsensical and injustice idea of a debtors prison. Evidence that we are in the mist of a revolution back to old English law is the recent conviction and imprisonment of Wesley Snipes for tax evasion.
The Constitution is very clear about what constitutes a crime. There are only 2 types of crimes according to the Constitution. The first is criminal the second is civil. Criminal offenses, simply put, are public offenses that involve harming another person or their property. The remedy is incarceration. Removing the threat to the public by incarceration. The second is civil. Again, simply put, civil offenses have to do with private and personal laws. Such as contracts, business, money transactions, due and owning private matters. Remedy is never incarceration. This is reserved solely for criminal activity. Remedy for civil is to repay the money, liens, attachments, evictions etc.
Having a Debtor’s prison, is a sure sign of the decline and fall of an empire. Drug use as it is presented in this article is another example of the abuse by the Justice Department on our Constitution. Private procession of ‘drugs’ such as marijuana that pose no threat to the public is a bastardization of the criminal justice system. Incarceration of the individual for private conduct in the sanctuary of his own home was never the intent of our Framers when they wrote the Constitution. Using Possession to convict persons of criminal activity has resulted in more people in our jails not for actual crimes committed on the public but rather for assumptions that a crime may or could be committed. Possession is not the act but rather the assumption of an act. Assuming a crime is different that actually committing a crime. Do we really have enough room to house all these ‘criminals”?
Again, I do think our Framers having just immigrated to the new world from despotic England would have made every effort to insure that the laws in this country would prevent a repeat of the mistakes and harm of English practices such as Debtors prisons and denial of individual rights and freedoms. Unfortunately these rights are guaranteed but not observed in our Constitution by our current Justice System. Quite the pity. The writing is on the wall. We are headed back to the past and that is our future.
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» RE: Quite the pity
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Quite the pity
Posted by: mom'z the word
» RE: Quite the pity
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: b253@yahoo.com on Apr 25, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US has the highest prison population and the highest/per capita prison population.
The US is the freest country in the world.
Now both can't be true can they. Yet few people know the first and many people believe the second.
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» doublethink?
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Apr 25, 2008 10:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why does America have SIX TIMES the incarceration rate as the median rate among all countries?
Either America is really a police-state, as many of us believe, or else Americans are truly evil by nature and are many times more likely to commit felonies in the first place (which many of us believe as well).
Either way, we're fucked.
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» RE: ither Way
Posted by: ALANHESTER
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Posted by: tom cady on Apr 25, 2008 11:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a world that contains Laffer curve, an Axis of Evil, Iraqi Freedom, Mission Accomplished, Clear Skies, Clean Waters, Healthy Forests, Family Values, No Child Left Behind, and a Patriot Act it is a good reminder for our time.
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Posted by: graffen48 on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 25, 2008 9:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of mind. Reference "Das Heilig" by Rudolph Otto.
Religion is supposed to produce "numinous" feelings,
of which there are several types.
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Posted by: blurider on Apr 26, 2008 3:30 PM
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I've learned that DEA's 'feed' on their own records - especially the monetary value of the busts they make annually and this method of funding DEA's applies uniformly, nationwide but the cops or their unions alone can't possibly have that kind of power and influence.
Gradually I've observed the proliferation of a huge, politically influential prison industry in the U S of A and a lot of senators and representatives eagerly writing laws aimed not at justice or even at 'law and order' but at keeping a constant inflow of 'criminals' to fill those cells. Somehow it seems that their ownership and investment in this system must be related to their support.
The irrational fear of drugs, from it's beginnings with Harry Anslinger and Wm Randolph Hearst was a perfect beginning and probably served as the seminal model for our 'crime industry' but it now goes far beyond the War on Drugs.
As long as we have a fearful, self righteous but poorly informed citizenry, made up of people who view themselves as special', exceptional', righteous and/or 'chosen' and rulers who are quite willing to wage all kinds of 'wars' against the interests and the well-being of their own citizenry, they'll continue to prey upon the fears of the public who support their actions and we'll have national industries exploited by the elites for their own profits - an evil, criminal enterprise in the guise of an 'anti-crime', 'anti-evil', 'anti-terror' government agency - actually an industry in the service of profit!!
A prison industry the size of General Motors and an out-of-control military-industrial-complex are just two of the most common ways we are being exploited by those 'public servants' who would be our rulers. They no longer view us as labor or even as consumers but as so much fodder for their cannons and their privatized government enterprises.
Recall how at the beginnings of the Bush/Cheney regime our biggest Dick told America how he intended to deal with the issue of his divestment of his interest in Halliburton. Did anyone else notice a subtle shift, a notable difference regarding his 'legal and ethical obligation' to his constituency?
I suspect we can all draw our own conclusions about our nation's future from this moment.
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Apr 27, 2008 3:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
thats getting smaller and smaller...
sooner or later they are gunna be forced to take a look at this disturbing trend...
is silly how the rich all ways seem to get off easy,
while the poor colored guy get 15 years for [thinking about] selling crack...
what gets me most pissed is that its an offense that you are making against yourselves!...
you are the person thats consuming this product and because of it... you get sent to prison for life?...
and "they" call this justice?...
just who's getting the right to call this justice anyways?
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Posted by: Dianka on May 6, 2008 4:27 PM
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Posted by: Dianka on May 11, 2008 7:50 AM
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Right now, it appears we are rushing to fill the demand for super-cheap labor, and this is central to the rush to imprison more people. Remove the incentive. It would then become a disadvantage to states to continue their prison-filling frenzy, dramatically reducing the prison population to those whose crimes are truly serious, and who present a legitimate threat to society.
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 25, 2008 12:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Democracy
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Posted by: williameon on Apr 25, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush/Chainey
Stinking War!
It's Big Business
A Dirty Business.
The Big Business of War!
Put everyone in jail.
Making widgets for 25 cents an hour!
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road!
Hello Maximum Security.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: dave1616 on Apr 25, 2008 4:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
please see , www.discussrace.com
AND www.strategytalk.org
"usa & the america's"
"my biracial american experience"
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Posted by: bluesmanjohnson on Apr 25, 2008 4:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obvious solution: a modified Libertarian/Progressive approach. Legalize it and tax it. Let the soft stuff and organic stuff flow freely, regulate harder drugs (i.e., make people go to licensed clubs and stay a certain time), and prohibit and concentrate on the things that lead to serious public health problems, like meth. This is so simple and obvious, which explains why we can't get our sh*t together on this issue.
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» It worked in Europe
Posted by: robbie.seal
» As succinctly as I've heard it...
Posted by: Anon12
» RE: As succinctly as I've heard it...
Posted by: liberalibrarian
» The US has managed to create a level of FEAR...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: It worked in Europe
Posted by: jroth420
» "Prohibit things that lead to serious public health problems.."
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: zeofredo on Apr 25, 2008 5:32 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personal freedom: the next big commodity boom!
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» Irrational?
Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Irrational?
Posted by: zeofredo
» RE: Irrational?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Irrational?
Posted by: e rice
» The USA is already a Police State
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The USA is already a Police State
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Apr 25, 2008 6:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The so called law of the land has been out of control since before the Spanish American war. The numbers of innocent inmates has topped 60% since 2001. NO ONE IS DEALING WITH THIS! The American legal system has never been legal it was adopted from English common Law in Whole Cloth. No one ever Voted this legal system into being. WE HAVE NEVER BEEN OUT OF THE MONARCHYS RULE in the Courthouse.
It took less than twenty five years to put us back into a taxation slavery and no one has bitched. The taxes you pay on Salaries are not legal you pay them because you are told to. There EXISTS NO LAW COVERING INCOME TAX YOU PAY IT BECAUSE YOU ARE A GOOD SLAVE! You have even placed an illegal system in charge of your welfare and bow and scrape to its wishes. You are living the life you do because you would rather have JOE be responsible for your safety. You will continue to live with the result of that as long as you do nothing to change it!
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» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: Nightstallion
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: EncinoM
» I am scrolling sideways to read
Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: Irrational?! I will protect my own thanks. For irrational Judges there is one cure!
Posted by: Knobby
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Posted by: picket on Apr 25, 2008 7:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This good ole USA needs some REAL Leadership but $$$$$$$$$ and profit rules...soooo What can we do????
Keep up the GOOD fight maybe truth and honor wins in the end.
Do not fall for Media PROPAGANDA. I hear people repeat deceptive statements all day long and in the end they will vote with the billionaires against their own BEST interests.
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Posted by: kungfoofighterx on Apr 25, 2008 7:47 AM
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Then there are the corporate prisons. What is that all about?
What about prison labor. How much military equipment is made by prisoners in the USA. They got to be making more than license plates.
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» The threat of rape
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: The threat of rape
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The threat of rape
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A crazy culture requires musical interpretation.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Crazy culture.
Posted by: jroth420
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Posted by: Mexitli on Apr 25, 2008 8:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Second, the market economy cannot handle the extra people.
Third, another purpose of locking up minorities is because it looks bad to white people when minorities do well in the economy and white guys struggle.
That's offensive to whites.
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» RE: It's not about DRUGS
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» completely agree
Posted by: e rice
» RE: It's not about DRUGS
Posted by: robert.noll
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Posted by: vasumurti on Apr 25, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Each year, the U.S. government spends more than $30 billion on the drug war and arrests over 1.5 million people on drug-related charges. Over 318,000 people are now behind bars in the U.S. for drug violations, greater than the total number of people incarcerated for all crimes in England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain combined.
Our government is calling for billions of dollars to fight a drug war it can't win. Roughly 75 percent of this money goes to enforcing laws and regulations, but only 15 percent goes to drug education and prevention, and a only a meager 10 percent goes to treatment for addicts.
During the 1950s, long-term prison sentences against drug users choked the courts, strained and disrupted prisons and drove black-market prices even higher. The latest casualty in the drug war has been our civil liberties: mandatory drug testing so we can all be “drug free”. Some of these tests have been struck down by the courts, where the government is the employer. But others have been upheld. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia denounced these drug tests as “an immolation of privacy and human dignity in symbolic opposition to drug use.”
Even putting America under martial law will not solve the nation's drug problem. Iran executes hundreds of drug offenders. Malaysia has hanged dozens of drug users in the past few years. In neither country has the drug problem receded. In fact, in Malaysia, the addiction rate continues to rise. On the other hand, the Dutch government, with its liberal social and political philosophy, tolerates drug use, and the addiction rate is declining.
According to a 2003 Zogby poll, two of every five Americans say “the government should treat marijuana the same way it treats alcohol: It should regulate it, control it, tax it, and only make it illegal for children.” Close to 100 million Americans, including over half of those between the ages of 18 and 50, have tried marijuana at least once. Military and police recruiters often have no alternative but to ignore past marijuana use by job seekers.
In 1996, California voters passed a law to regulate medical marijuana within the state. In 2000, voters in California approved an initiative allowing people who are arrested for simple possession of drugs to go through a rehabilitation program rather than through the court process that would result in prison. Since the program began, most agree it has been very successful. It results in less recidivism and is considered cheaper than imprisonment.
Rufus King, a Washington, DC lawyer who has served on the President's Commission on Law Enforcement and the Administration of Justice, calls the drug war, “A worthless crusade.” According to King, drug use is a social problem, not a law enforcement problem. He observes: “Cigarette use is declining through changes in cultural values in the population. Like most smokers and alcoholics, most users of illegal drugs poison themselves because they want to be intoxicated. No human force can do them much good until they want help.” King is optimistic that the current anti-drug hysteria will subside, and responsible and reasonable drug law policies will be adopted.
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» RE: nding the Drug War
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: vasumurti on Apr 25, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The use of wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping emerged during the Prohibition era. Roy Olmstead was a suspected bootlegger whom the government wished to search. It placed taps in the basement of his office building and on wires in the streets near his home. No physical entry into his office or home took place. Olmstead was convicted entirely on the basis of evidence from the wiretaps.
"In his appeal to the Supreme Court, Olmstead argued that the taps were a search conducted without a warrant and without probable cause, and that the evidence seized against him should have been excluded because it was illegally gathered. He also argued that his Fifth Amendment right not to be a witness against himself was violated.
"By a 5-4 vote, the Court rejected his arguments and upheld the government's power to wiretap without limit and without any Fourth Amendment restrictions, on the grounds that no actual physical intrusion had taken place.
"Olmstead's Fifth Amendment claim was also dismissed on the grounds that he had not been compelled to talk on the telephone, but had done so voluntarily. Thus the Court upheld the government's power to do by trickery and surreptitious means what it was not permitted to do honestly and openly. It wasn't until 1967, in a similar case involving gambling, that the Court overruled the Olmstead decision by an 8-1 margin and recognized that the Fourth Amendment applied to wiretapping and electronic surveillance.
"Interestingly, these cases arose in the context of crimes like bootlegging and gambling. During the past twenty years, the majority of wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping by both state and federal officials has been in cases involving drug dealing and gambling.
"Serious crimes of violence, such as homicide, assault, rape, robbery, and burglary, are rarely the target of electronic eavesdropping, which is not normally a useful tool in such cases.
"From the beginning, when wiretapping was virtually invented to enforce laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol, to the late 1960s, when gambling was a major target, to the present, when the use and sale of drugs other than alcohol are the main target, these intrusive devices have been used mostly to enforce laws aimed at punishing and proscribing personal conduct that society deems immoral.
"Because such conduct essentially involves private activities among consenting adults who are all likely to want to keep those activities secret, they are harder to investigate and prosecute than crimes like robbery or burglary, in which an unwilling victim will probably aid any investigation...the invasion of privacy inherent in wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping remains with us as part of the legacy of our attempts to criminalize personal conduct.
"The other major use of electronic eavesdropping has been to punish political dissent. For decades, former FBI director J. Edgar Hoover used wiretaps and other electronic devices to spy on political figures and citizens not yet suspected of having committed a crime. He built vast dossiers on their political activities and personal lives. Special units of local police called 'Red Squads' did the same."
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» RE: privacy and civil liberties
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on Apr 25, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You will never find the answer if they have you asking the wrong questions!
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» RE: The War on Drugs and the Corrections Complex is big BUSINESS!
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Apr 25, 2008 9:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The horror of it all!
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
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» RE: leagalize pot?
Posted by: Lauren
» mencken defined a puritan as
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: PaulK on Apr 25, 2008 9:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Little or no education against gangs. For that matter, no protection in school or outside of school against gangs picking on kids. Why don't they just set up a recruiting booth next to the vice-principal's office?
McFood. Kids wire out in school because of all the allergy-inducing chems in the food.
No reintegration into society. Guys get out with maybe $50 and that won't even pay the damage deposit on an apartment. Worse, they have no skills. So they throw bricks through windows and become lifers. No other choice. I hope we all enjoy paying for a million geritol convicts at $40,000 a year per head for 30 more years. That equals $1.2 trillion down the drain, and for nothing, bunkies. These old codgers no longer have any street cred at all, no particular reason to commit crimes, and might be just as happy pulling jobs, going fishing on the weekends and paying taxes.
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» RE: Other reasons that we put people in jail
Posted by: ALANHESTER
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Posted by: chiefwanadubie on Apr 25, 2008 9:31 AM
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» When the government
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: When the government
Posted by: Lauren
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Posted by: nomomorons on Apr 25, 2008 10:35 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Missing the OLD (Cold) War:
MaryEllen Kersch
As one who grew up in fear of the total obliteration of the planet, I never thought I would say this, but I sort of miss the Cold War these days. Not the diving under solid objects during “fall-out drills” in school, or being on the alert for strange-looking airplanes potentially carrying real weapons of mass-destruction, --those were not fond childhood memories. However, in retrospect, The Cold War united the people of our country in a sense of who we were and what we stood for. The United States, during that era, certainly earned its position as the moral leader of the world. The big difference between us and the Commies was that we valued human dignity. We set the standards, worldwide, for the proper treatment of people under all circumstances; we spoke out against torture, oppression, starvation. We urged all nations to be, as we were, compassionate to those less fortunate than us and courageous against those who degraded our fellow humans. We practiced the golden rule. We did it because we knew it was right.
Here we are, six years after some lunatics, who still remain free, committed atrocious acts against us and we seem to have lost the moral compass that guided us so well. During the Cold War, we never would have put children in prisons. (We even agonized and apologized for our interment camps of WWII!) But that is precisely what we are doing now, under some convoluted grant of power in the name of, but having nothing to do with, Homeland Security.
For over a year now, the Commissioners Court in Williamson County, Texas, has acted as contractual “provider” in a corrupt contract with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (known chillingly, appropriately, as ICE) for the administration of T Don Hutto “residential’ facility. T Don Hutto was a founder of the firm that owns and operates this prison-pretending-to-be-a-residential-facility. Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the largest --and hugely profitable-- private operator of prisons in America, actually runs this shameful facility on a pass-through contract with the County. Under this arrangement, CCA gets 2.8 million tax dollars a month (approximately $84,000 a year for each tender little body they “detain”), and the County gets a dollar a day a body. (Curious that the County is even involved; ICE could contract directly with CCA since CCA owns the prison in the first place. But, as some legal experts say, with the County in the loop, the County very likely shares any legal exposure. And the County collects $12-$15 thousand a month from the Feds for going along.)
The human beings held at T Don Hutto are not criminals; they are charged with no crimes, nor are they suspected of being a threat to us, or our homeland security. Many of the children are actually citizens of this country.
The Bush administration (and the Republican Williamson County Commissioner Court) justify this shameful partnership by citing their dedication to “family values.” Keeping the kids together with mom, you know.
Many experts say, and several governmental agencies (including Congressional groups) urge, that people awaiting disposition of their applications for amnesty and/or immigration ought to be equipped with an electronic device and allowed to go with responsible family members or church groups pending a decision by our authorities. It would be considerably cheaper—and far more humane. There are such programs in a number of other communities. But maybe they didn’t have a vacant prison owned by a corporation that donated lots of campaign dollars to lots of elected officials.
In the former era, during the Cold War, this is the sort of dishonorable thing the Commies would have done. But not the United States of America.
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Posted by: mom'z the word on Apr 25, 2008 10:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When our framers wrote the Constitution they were particularly astute to this nonsensical and injustice idea of a debtors prison. Evidence that we are in the mist of a revolution back to old English law is the recent conviction and imprisonment of Wesley Snipes for tax evasion.
The Constitution is very clear about what constitutes a crime. There are only 2 types of crimes according to the Constitution. The first is criminal the second is civil. Criminal offenses, simply put, are public offenses that involve harming another person or their property. The remedy is incarceration. Removing the threat to the public by incarceration. The second is civil. Again, simply put, civil offenses have to do with private and personal laws. Such as contracts, business, money transactions, due and owning private matters. Remedy is never incarceration. This is reserved solely for criminal activity. Remedy for civil is to repay the money, liens, attachments, evictions etc.
Having a Debtor’s prison, is a sure sign of the decline and fall of an empire. Drug use as it is presented in this article is another example of the abuse by the Justice Department on our Constitution. Private procession of ‘drugs’ such as marijuana that pose no threat to the public is a bastardization of the criminal justice system. Incarceration of the individual for private conduct in the sanctuary of his own home was never the intent of our Framers when they wrote the Constitution. Using Possession to convict persons of criminal activity has resulted in more people in our jails not for actual crimes committed on the public but rather for assumptions that a crime may or could be committed. Possession is not the act but rather the assumption of an act. Assuming a crime is different that actually committing a crime. Do we really have enough room to house all these ‘criminals”?
Again, I do think our Framers having just immigrated to the new world from despotic England would have made every effort to insure that the laws in this country would prevent a repeat of the mistakes and harm of English practices such as Debtors prisons and denial of individual rights and freedoms. Unfortunately these rights are guaranteed but not observed in our Constitution by our current Justice System. Quite the pity. The writing is on the wall. We are headed back to the past and that is our future.
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» RE: Quite the pity
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Quite the pity
Posted by: mom'z the word
» RE: Quite the pity
Posted by: EncinoM
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Posted by: b253@yahoo.com on Apr 25, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US has the highest prison population and the highest/per capita prison population.
The US is the freest country in the world.
Now both can't be true can they. Yet few people know the first and many people believe the second.
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» doublethink?
Posted by: e rice
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Apr 25, 2008 10:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why does America have SIX TIMES the incarceration rate as the median rate among all countries?
Either America is really a police-state, as many of us believe, or else Americans are truly evil by nature and are many times more likely to commit felonies in the first place (which many of us believe as well).
Either way, we're fucked.
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» RE: ither Way
Posted by: ALANHESTER
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Posted by: tom cady on Apr 25, 2008 11:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a world that contains Laffer curve, an Axis of Evil, Iraqi Freedom, Mission Accomplished, Clear Skies, Clean Waters, Healthy Forests, Family Values, No Child Left Behind, and a Patriot Act it is a good reminder for our time.
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Posted by: graffen48 on Apr 25, 2008 1:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 25, 2008 9:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of mind. Reference "Das Heilig" by Rudolph Otto.
Religion is supposed to produce "numinous" feelings,
of which there are several types.
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Posted by: blurider on Apr 26, 2008 3:30 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've learned that DEA's 'feed' on their own records - especially the monetary value of the busts they make annually and this method of funding DEA's applies uniformly, nationwide but the cops or their unions alone can't possibly have that kind of power and influence.
Gradually I've observed the proliferation of a huge, politically influential prison industry in the U S of A and a lot of senators and representatives eagerly writing laws aimed not at justice or even at 'law and order' but at keeping a constant inflow of 'criminals' to fill those cells. Somehow it seems that their ownership and investment in this system must be related to their support.
The irrational fear of drugs, from it's beginnings with Harry Anslinger and Wm Randolph Hearst was a perfect beginning and probably served as the seminal model for our 'crime industry' but it now goes far beyond the War on Drugs.
As long as we have a fearful, self righteous but poorly informed citizenry, made up of people who view themselves as special', exceptional', righteous and/or 'chosen' and rulers who are quite willing to wage all kinds of 'wars' against the interests and the well-being of their own citizenry, they'll continue to prey upon the fears of the public who support their actions and we'll have national industries exploited by the elites for their own profits - an evil, criminal enterprise in the guise of an 'anti-crime', 'anti-evil', 'anti-terror' government agency - actually an industry in the service of profit!!
A prison industry the size of General Motors and an out-of-control military-industrial-complex are just two of the most common ways we are being exploited by those 'public servants' who would be our rulers. They no longer view us as labor or even as consumers but as so much fodder for their cannons and their privatized government enterprises.
Recall how at the beginnings of the Bush/Cheney regime our biggest Dick told America how he intended to deal with the issue of his divestment of his interest in Halliburton. Did anyone else notice a subtle shift, a notable difference regarding his 'legal and ethical obligation' to his constituency?
I suspect we can all draw our own conclusions about our nation's future from this moment.
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Apr 27, 2008 3:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
thats getting smaller and smaller...
sooner or later they are gunna be forced to take a look at this disturbing trend...
is silly how the rich all ways seem to get off easy,
while the poor colored guy get 15 years for [thinking about] selling crack...
what gets me most pissed is that its an offense that you are making against yourselves!...
you are the person thats consuming this product and because of it... you get sent to prison for life?...
and "they" call this justice?...
just who's getting the right to call this justice anyways?
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Posted by: Dianka on May 6, 2008 4:27 PM
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Posted by: Dianka on May 11, 2008 7:50 AM
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Right now, it appears we are rushing to fill the demand for super-cheap labor, and this is central to the rush to imprison more people. Remove the incentive. It would then become a disadvantage to states to continue their prison-filling frenzy, dramatically reducing the prison population to those whose crimes are truly serious, and who present a legitimate threat to society.
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NYC Police Accused of 'Anal Assault' Over Marijuana Use
Do Employers Really Need to Give Drug Tests for Pot?
False Claims on Rockefeller Drug Law Reform Lead to Credibility Gap for Prosecutors




