COMMENTS: 116
Breaking the Drug Taboo: Group of Traumatized Veterans Gets Ecstasy Treatment
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Filner's choice of words is instructive, as are his sentiments: With upwards of 25 million veterans in the United States, not counting those overseas in the morally murky theater of Iraq and Afghanistan who may return home sometime after the 2008 presidential election, that's a lot of assistance and funding needed to head off what he called a "rate of veteran suicide [that] has reached epidemic proportions," to the point that it has doubled the suicide rate of civilians. Safeguards already put into place have failed, for a variety of reasons, and given the severity of the mental and physical problems carried by returning soldiers, some daring out-of-the-box thinking is not only desperately needed, but required.
Enter the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), and its currently funded trials using 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine -- otherwise known as MDMA, or ecstasy -- to treat post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Although the U.S. Army had carried out lethal dose studies of MDMA back in the 1950s, work which was not classified until the close of the 1960s, it was only centered on animals and was mixed in with a variety of other compounds. At the closure of that research, MDMA languished in clinical obscurity until its rise as a club drug in the '80s and '90s brought it the kind of attention that dooms better drugs to Schedule I classifications -- that is, illegality -- and lesser drugs to approval by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). But MAPS founder and president Rick Doblin became aware of MDMA in 1982, and since then has been convinced of its therapeutic uses. Accordingly, his organization has coordinated and/or funded recent studies into MDMA treatment of PTSD and has its eyes set on a higher goal.
"We're looking to make MDMA into a prescription medication in the United States, United Kingdom and elsewhere," he explained by phone.
So far, MAPS has gone a long way to helping legitimize MDMA treatment for PTSD, as well as anxiety in cancer patients and more. The organization is supporting and funding Dr. Michael Mithoefer's double-blind sessions and protocol on MDMA/PTSD, initially approved by the FDA in 2001 and due to conclude this June, as well as co-sponsoring a pilot MDMA/PTSD study with the Swiss Medical Association for Psycholytic Therapy and coordinating research at Harvard Medical School's McLean Hospital into MDMA's ability to aid the suffering of terminal cancer patients.
In short, MAPS is putting its money where your mouth is, in hopes of saving your brain and heart. And their help can't come fast enough, given hundreds of thousands of troops have already returned home from Iraq and Afghanistan to face everything from a possible economic recession to homelessness, homicide and suicide, with hundreds of thousands on the way behind them. According to some estimates, America can expect a minimum of 300,000 cases of PTSD, at a cost of over $600 billion, rivaling the cost of the wars themselves. And that's just the military wing of PTSD's vast network, which leans all too heavily on those who have suffered horrific experiences such as rape, violence, abuse and more. Post-traumatic stress disorder is a deadly assassin when it comes to the humanity's overall mental health, and its costs are extensive and lasting. This is why some physicians and professionals are keeping an eye on MDMA treatment, which so far has proven to be almost uniformly successful in helping patients work through their crippling traumas with the help of ecstasy's cathartic yet calming influence.
"I've seen each and every one of these patients, and, just as a clinical psychologist, it is impressive to see the degree of treatment response these folks have had," explained testing expert Mark Wagner, a clinical psychologist at the Medical University of South Carolina, to the Washington Post after serving as an independent evaluator of Mithoefer's work. "I didn't see a single individual who thought: 'Oh, yeah, this is great fun. I'm going to try to go out and use this for recreational use.' All of them took this very seriously and therapeutically."
Indeed, out of all of the MDMA research underway, it seems to be Mithoefer's work, conducted in a warmly lit cottage in South Carolina with his wife and registered nurse Annie, that seems best positioned to aid MDMA's American crossover from a Schedule I danger to a FDA-approved wonder drug. But that's just the beginning of a long, bureaucratically tangled road to redemption. "Michael's study is the furthest along," added Doblin, "and after June, we'll do the data analysis and submit our findings to the FDA. After that, we will work with the FDA to come up with ideas about phase three studies, and that's when we have to spend the millions of dollars and treat hundreds of patients."
Mithoefer's current study, in phase two and working with barely over 20 patients, is crucial, according to Doblin, "to prove safety and efficacy." Safety and efficacy are the prime obstacles standing in MAPS and MDMA's way, especially since the drug was given the Schedule I assignation in 1985, shortly after it was nicknamed "ecstasy" in 1984. Since then, studies have come and gone in hopes of proving its lethality, but, as with its cousin-in-controversy cannabis, nothing conclusive came of it. Doblin, Mithoefer and other interested physicians and figures from around the world have stepped forward to subject it to rigorous testing, and have found little to complain about. In fact, they've found quite a bit to celebrate, which has not sat well with the shrinking contingency of drug warriors intent on keeping MDMA from people who may need it.
"I find it important to discriminate between medical research and drug policy," asserted Pal-Orjan Johansen, a Ph.D. candidate at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology's department of psychology who has worked with Michael and Annie Mithoefer on MDMA treatment and research, via email. "One area cannot be used to promote the other, and vice versa. It is inconsistent with traditional medical ethics or outright unethical to block treatment development and research based on drug policy."
It may be unethical, but it certainly isn't inconsistent, at least within the last century, which found several drugs with specific medicinal properties, including MDMA and cannabis, nevertheless criminalized by governments across the world. And while it is true that some have loosened their hypocritical restrictions on such substances, many still harbor puritanical paranoias about them. In America, it has been far easier to obtain prescriptions for medicine that can kill you outright, such as oxycontin or vioxx, than for drugs that can chill you out. And that's before one even engages more dangerous legal substances, such as nicotine or alcohol, which have wrecked lives and ruined bank accounts. One could argue, with some success, that it would be inconsistent with traditional medical ethics to legalize such substances, even though their positives seem to far outweigh their negatives.
But, of course, this argument, stretching back for decades if not centuries, is not about ethics or health, but about money. Just ask Doblin, who's happy that Mithoefer's work has passed phase two with flying colors but nervous about the coming challenges of a much more expansive, and expensive, phase three.
"Where do we get five million dollars?" he answered with a question, when asked what will be phase three's biggest obstacle. When asked if a new administration, one less in love with the idea of wars on abstracts, would come to the rescue, Doblin was equally sanguine. "The change in administration won't make a difference. We're doing this now with the Bush administration. The level we're working at now is made up of mostly scientists interested in science over politics. From our perspective, the FDA is a delight to work with, because they focus on that science. It's not until it comes to policy that the political influences come in. But we're many, many years away from that."
For now, Doblin and his cadre of outside-the-box doctors are focusing on the data, which is growing by the day, and pointing to a possible light at the end of PTSD's long, dark tunnel. And that means navigating the labyrinth of not just the FDA, but also the medical establishment's program of rigorous testing and analysis.
"We are preparing a protocol to submit to the FDA in February to train therapists for phase three studies," he explained. "We're going to ask permission to administer MDMA to therapist trainees, so they know what the drug is about, and so they can practice with one another. We're transcribing audio and video of all the sessions, and developing a treatment manual. We're initiating contact with another group interested in MDMA for cognitive behavioral therapy."
So, what if it works? What if MDMA treatment of PTSD comes to pass, and everyone from rape and abuse victims to returning soldiers demand the catharsis that comes from ecstasy to help them normalize their turbulent lives? The scenario scares some politicians and physicians alike, but their fears of rampant XTC ravers gumming up the public works may, in the end, prove unfounded.
"It's not going to be a normal prescription drug like the antidepressants," promised Doblin. "It's only going to be administered under therapist supervision. There would be a chain or network of clinics where use would be limited to special training. Patients would be requited to spend the night in the facility. It's not like cannabis. Our approach is catharsis, enhancing the psychotherapeutic interchange. We want patients to integrate their trauma into their normal lives."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: drblack on Feb 11, 2008 12:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She couldn't hold a job, had few friends and was very insecure.
After one MDMA experience she turned around completely. She just took it with no shrink or even any talk of her past trauma.
It was the most amazing transformation I have ever seen.
This was back in 1986. I saw her recently and she is still doing great and it was all because of one dose of MDMA.
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» Yes it can!
Posted by: garry minor
» Yes (we) can!
Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Don't tell me, Obama's on X too!?!
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: MobileSucks on Feb 11, 2008 2:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last I had heard about MDMA in the media was that it causes brain damage and if you take enough of it, in the long term, what happens is that you become incapable of being happy. Or you can't get very excited about anything. It emotionally flat lines you. Some researchers actually said this and it was all over TV for a few days. That study was based on research done with rats or mice that were given insanely large amounts of the drug over extended periods of time. How can you trust the findings of any of these studies I'm not sure. If it's a drug that has been made illegal, the sky is the limit on what people can claim about it's supposedly hazardous effects. If it's legal...well usually a lot of people have to get sick and die before you hear much about it.
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» RE: rolling soldiers
Posted by: LeaveMeAlone
» RE: rolling soldiers
Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: Truth is the first casualty in war...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Truth is the first casualty in war...
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: Zuma on Feb 11, 2008 3:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: kelt65
» You got ripped off!!!
Posted by: garry minor
» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE:You didn't take MDMA...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: pizzmoe
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Posted by: myra on Feb 11, 2008 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:You obviously have never taken MDMA...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: williameon on Feb 11, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First they rip your world apart.
Then BU__! SH__! Sends you off to a
Phony Halliburton WAR
With a target on your back.
In Iraq you committed War Crimes.
Then you came back to
Bush-Zarro World
With the top of your head blown off!
Your dreams shattered.
Then it settles in,
Everything was a lie.
You were used and abused.
Do you think that Ecstasy is going to cure that?
There is only one cure!
Get rid of these, Dirty Hippocratic, Sato-Sadistic and Fascist Bass-Turds that sent you there.
Enough with the Wars already!
It is the worst possible thing we can do with our dwindling resources and loved ones lives.
The Shrub loves it.
They stay home, live high on the hog and get even richer.
Ecstasy is a Bummer!
Reality is tough.
It will make living in Bush-Zarro AmeriKaKa even harder.
Another placebo instead of the cure.
The Truth.
FREEDOM
You want to make their lives better?
Restore their faith in this Country!
Give back their Dreams.
Stop the Lies, Spies and Delusional Nightmares:
In this Cor‘pirate’ Hell Hole!
Ecstasy can only make it tougher.
There are safer and more reliable methods for integration.
There are many proven Relaxation, Exercise, Yoga and Meditative techniques.
There are as many ways as there is people.
Each path personal and unique.
Long walks with Mother Nature are very beneficial.
Occupying the conscious mind so that your inner Light/Spirit can shine.
Expand the possibilities and deepen the Experience.
All the veils will fall away and you will be home again.
What you were born.
With all your Limitless Potential.
I forgive you!
Please forgive me.
Peace!
Everything else is illusion.
The best cure of all?
STOP the WAR!
Protect and support your Family.
Stay Home!
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» RE: The Best Possible Answer of all? STOP THE WAR! Stay Home!
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: The Best Possible Answer of all? STOP THE WAR! Stay Home!
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: KAEL on Feb 11, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: KAEL
Posted by: grn1
» RE:Morally Murky.....??? Please
Posted by: Inlander
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Posted by: garry minor on Feb 11, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: schnoggi on Feb 11, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and to those who snicker in disdain at E, either you haven't done it (in which case just be quiet), or you did bad stuff, or you were just an exception. a good dose in a proper situation is a truly life-changing experience, and it is well time the cultural clenchers backed off.
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» RE: WORD! nm
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, yes, the real answer is to curtail the madness and inhumanity called war. Meanwhile, the drug companies are part of the war. The armed forces are doing experimental drug treatments of combat soldiers - involuntarily, I've read - to make them more inured to the horrors of combat and killing; to make them zombies basically. So, is this not simply the other end of that process, the "treatment" for the consequences of becoming a killing machine, though one still with a psyche, the heart and soul that have become traumatized?
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» RE: Stay human
Posted by: grn1
» RE: You obviously have no idea what you are talking about...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: Intellect on Feb 11, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The troops returning with PTSD are returning now.
Many, many years away is not good enough if this is really something that will help them.
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 11, 2008 7:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sure cure (Maybe NOT)
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: TRUE mick3
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: mick3
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 11, 2008 7:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a Vietnam Vet I can tell you from personal experience,Cannibas Hemp is a far better choice. After months and years of slaughtering and following absurd orders you need something to get by in civillian life and Hemp made the transistion much easier.
I can approve of wanting our people to regain the feeling of love and closeness and family after their return,but I think GENUINE feelings of Love,Family and Closeness is a far better remedy than a drug induced 'love mentality' especially since there's no guarantee that you'll be in a situation where those feelings will be returned. A let down under those circumstances could have disasterous results. At least if you're stoned and someone shoots you down you're more inclined to say
"Cool, I'll just go talk to someone else.".
I think the military squarely has it's collective head-up-its-ass on this one.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7
WE CAN DO BETTER.WE JUST NEED TO DO IT!!!
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» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: halkorp
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Posted by: goeswithness on Feb 11, 2008 8:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alchohol was number 5. Cannabis was 11. Ecstasy was 17 or 18. It was said that the risk of using it is "insignificant."
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» RE: Stop trying to corn-fuse these folks with the facts...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: About Ecstasy: the risk is small
Posted by: xtiml
» RE: About Ecstasy: the risk is small
Posted by: goeswithness
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Posted by: blogfrog on Feb 11, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone explain to me how taking a powerful psychotropic drug that rips you out of sober consciousness is in any way an integrating experience? And furthermore, I think the vets had enough of "integating their trauma" into their lives when the Bushmaster launched this unilateral agression and sent them into hell.
Which famous work of fiction speaks of a substance that all in society must take to maintain the state mandated "right" perspective and behavior?
This is getting scary folks...........
real scary.
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» RE:What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: blogfrog
» RE: What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: halkorp
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: I'd read it again now.
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: blogfrog
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Yikes
Posted by: LeaveMeAlone
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 8:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Fun" vs. suffering (or stoicism of some sort)is not the issue, as suggested by someone above. That's a cruel joke, spoken by someone who clearly doesn't know the horrors of combat and related traumatic experience. The issue is what really will help this horrendous kind of suffering in the long haul.
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» reconnecting w/ oneself---drug therapy
Posted by: codeye
» RE: MDMA is an introspective experience
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: donnee on Feb 11, 2008 9:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I found that I takes constant vigilance to keep the dark at bay,and the memories of horror from creeping in. Eventually your friends and family slip away, worn out and feeling helpless in the face of the storm that rides your ass, day in and day out with no respite.
It was a dog that finally saved me and then another dog, constant exercise that I wouldn't give to myself (because someone as horrible as I didn't deserve to be teated well) I gave to them willingly, the adoration I received just for coming home and having to come home to feed and care for them, kept me out of other bad situations.
Yeah talk therapy helped, drugs where more trouble than they were worth, what with the side effects and having to see the doctor on a regular basis. But my four legged shamans and Mozart are the best prescription I have found to finally feel semi-whole again.
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» RE: After years of dealing with PTSD
Posted by: xtiml
» RE: After years of dealing with PTSD
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: After years of dealing with PTSD
Posted by: babs
» RE: Become the tennis ball, and see what it does for you.
Posted by: jimidee
Comments are closed-
Posted by: unity1 on Feb 11, 2008 9:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when is this insane humanity going to grow up and learn - when are you americans going to wake up and realize war is NOT patriotic nor is it sane - so far you have killed over 3 million people - no wonder your solders are not coping - the Germans denied the human holocaust also
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» RE: How Ironic
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: How Ironic
Posted by: amazingjim
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Posted by: madmax427 on Feb 11, 2008 9:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: scottml on Feb 11, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: scottml
» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: scottml
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Posted by: xtiml on Feb 11, 2008 10:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:It is not that simple...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: nobody4prez on Feb 11, 2008 11:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Psychedelics are powerful, and they shouldn't be administered lightly, whether in experimental, clinical, or recreational settings; the disorders for which these medications are most likely to be helpful are sufficiently debilitating as to warrant consider treating them with commensurately powerful methods.
Consider: would you treat a mild headache with morphine? Of course not. Does this mean that morphine is useless? No! It just means it isn't a cure-all and shouldn't be used for mild headaches. If I had cancer, on the other hand, I'd rather have morphine than aspirin. Would a responsible psychiatrist use LSD with someone with a transient or mild problem? No. Should a responsible and appropriately-trained psychiatrist have the option to use powerful tools against powerful foes? Of course!
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» RE: Leary was just telling it like it was...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Psychedelics outside of Psychiatry
Posted by: MobileSucks
» If We Could Blow Some Politicians Minds, It would Be Good!
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: If We Could Blow Some Politicians Minds, It would Be Good!
Posted by: gellero
» RE: Psychedelics (should be) outside of Psychiatry
Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: Psychedelics (should be) outside of Psychiatry
Posted by: gellero
» How does a civilian "visit" with Pharm?
Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: How do you keep them down on the pharm...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: PeaceLove on Feb 11, 2008 11:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read The Secret Chief online, a beautiful book about a therapist who came out of retirement to conduct therapy using MDMA and psychedelics like LSD:
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/sctoc.html
Jacob postponed his retirement, completely enraptured by the effects of MDMA on himself and his patients. Over the next few years, he traveled around the country, quietly training groups of therapists in the use of MDMA in psychotherapy. He occasionally went to Europe to continue this work among European psychologists and psychiatrists.
At his memorial, I asked one of his oldest friends whether she had any idea as to how many people Jacob might have initiated over the years in the use of psychedelics, and she replied, "Oh, I would guess about four thousand, give or take a few." Rather extraordinary, for a man in his seventies!
I'm not entirely thrilled with the idea of granting an exclusive monopoly on such powerful sacred tools to the therapy community, but it's a start towards a more rational policy. At least the science can advance once again.
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» RE: Very insightful...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 1:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(This copy/pasted from kpfa.org today, 2/11; this is great material, getting a huge reception nationally. Go to the archives on the above station and see if you can catch it -- I believe Dr. B has a book out by this title, hence the talk... He's been doing a lot of speaking/interviews
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» RE: MDMA is not your run of the mill psychiatric drug...nm
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guess the poor lad's gonna lead lots of ECTSTASY after this tour of duty...Oy.
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» RE: From Rawstory, "Soldier, After Bipolar Treatment and suicide attempts, sent back to war zone
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: lilcheese71 on Feb 11, 2008 2:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not against using any drug to legitimately help people. However, you can't pop a pill for everything.
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» One pill makes you big, and one pill makes you small, and...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: gellero on Feb 11, 2008 2:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Society will never allow them. They are for select cognocenti.
Read 'Phikal' by Dr. Shulgin. He made and tried them all (200+ isomers). Cookbook included for Organic Chemistry majors.
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» RE: X
Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: X
Posted by: kelethian
» here's how
Posted by: gellero
» Society
Posted by: gellero
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 11, 2008 5:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Posted by: gellero
» RE: Opening the Doors of Perception
Posted by: jimidee
» Salvia
Posted by: gellero
» RE: Salvia
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Feb 11, 2008 7:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See above for the continuing misery of the world.
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Posted by: gellero on Feb 11, 2008 8:59 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Dboy on Feb 11, 2008 11:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After all, who are these 'traumatized' soldiers? Maybe he was the one who was traumatized by setting that 14-year old girls body on fire, along with her family, after raping her? That would certainly be traumatizing.
dboy
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» RE: Agreed...we did get off on a few tangents...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Agreed...we did get off on a few tangents...
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: logansafi on Feb 12, 2008 9:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are a group of 'workers' that are our ruling class's elite guard over the rest of us, by and large.
'Oh, Poor People, you have PTSD! You been treating others so damn bad it's begun to hurt even you... Oh the humanity!'
But I have noticed that nobody is particularly worried about other sufferers from traumatic exposures? Has anybody ever heard of any talk about other sufferers of PTSD needing special treatment, such as ER, ICU, or Burn Unit nurses, for just one example? What about those workers exposed to dangerous and toxic factory conditions that grind them down daily? What about cab drivers? And how about the inmates released from prisons?
'Oh, Cell Block Joe, you have a bad case of PTSD! Have some Ecstasy, Dude.'
We need to get over doting on vets as if they were some sort of fragile wilting elite flowers.... heroes, as they wish to often be known as. Most of them eagerly went into a military career with less thought than going into the Postal Service would have given them. And many later come out of the military, just as so many also come out of the Civil Service Postal Service, all tired of their earlier chosen and less than entirely satisfying job choice.
Simply put, the military is a ruling class set up elite that the rest of us continue to fund at the risk of our own PTSD.
'Hand me the marijuana and Ecstasy, please. What, I have know medical insurance? And no Social Security? What! The vets got it?!'
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Posted by: morticia on Feb 12, 2008 12:12 PM
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Posted by: Dboy on Feb 12, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
dboy
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Posted by: jeffreyDee on Feb 12, 2008 1:36 PM
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Posted by: richholland on Feb 12, 2008 6:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-no housing problems
-a good health insurance
- financial security
-cantalk about the problems freely
after the second world war and the colonial wars millions of europeans, soldiers and survivors of terror bombing and concentration camps were building a strong Europe based upon
democratic social ideas of welfare for everyone
instead for a small group of Rich families.
THis is the core of the problems.
A state has the duty to take care of her veterans.
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Posted by: sweet_byrd on Feb 13, 2008 10:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This feeds into my theory that American society (as opposed to individuals or sub-groups) really only begins to take an affliction seriously when it affects men.
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» RE: I'm not comforted by the implications of this for gynecological issues.
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: metamind on Feb 16, 2008 8:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Still, it's a mistake to substitute chemical empathy for the real thing. If you can use the chemical to learn how to do it for yourself then it can be a blessing. If you depend on the chemical to alter your consciousness then it can be a bad thing.
As with virtually every drug ... it's how you use it that matters most. Does it help you more than it hurts you or hurt you more than it helps you?
Ecstasy can open one's mind to a capacity to feel for others. If it is combined with psychotherapy it might even be useful in treating some forms of mental disease.
In the big picture we need to stop looking at mental illness as "just a chemical imbalance" and start looking at it as a composite of many different things, including diet, exercise, mental attitude, biochemical imbalance and psychosocial factors. Money is the cause of much depression ... that's our collective "spell" being cast upon each other in with evil consequence.
It's all US. WE are the problem. WE are the solution.
Teach virtue. It works.
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Posted by: drblack on Feb 11, 2008 12:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She couldn't hold a job, had few friends and was very insecure.
After one MDMA experience she turned around completely. She just took it with no shrink or even any talk of her past trauma.
It was the most amazing transformation I have ever seen.
This was back in 1986. I saw her recently and she is still doing great and it was all because of one dose of MDMA.
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» Yes it can!
Posted by: garry minor
» Yes (we) can!
Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Don't tell me, Obama's on X too!?!
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: MobileSucks on Feb 11, 2008 2:46 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last I had heard about MDMA in the media was that it causes brain damage and if you take enough of it, in the long term, what happens is that you become incapable of being happy. Or you can't get very excited about anything. It emotionally flat lines you. Some researchers actually said this and it was all over TV for a few days. That study was based on research done with rats or mice that were given insanely large amounts of the drug over extended periods of time. How can you trust the findings of any of these studies I'm not sure. If it's a drug that has been made illegal, the sky is the limit on what people can claim about it's supposedly hazardous effects. If it's legal...well usually a lot of people have to get sick and die before you hear much about it.
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» RE: rolling soldiers
Posted by: LeaveMeAlone
» RE: rolling soldiers
Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: Truth is the first casualty in war...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Truth is the first casualty in war...
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: Zuma on Feb 11, 2008 3:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: kelt65
» You got ripped off!!!
Posted by: garry minor
» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE:You didn't take MDMA...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: No pacifier
Posted by: pizzmoe
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Posted by: myra on Feb 11, 2008 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:You obviously have never taken MDMA...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: williameon on Feb 11, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First they rip your world apart.
Then BU__! SH__! Sends you off to a
Phony Halliburton WAR
With a target on your back.
In Iraq you committed War Crimes.
Then you came back to
Bush-Zarro World
With the top of your head blown off!
Your dreams shattered.
Then it settles in,
Everything was a lie.
You were used and abused.
Do you think that Ecstasy is going to cure that?
There is only one cure!
Get rid of these, Dirty Hippocratic, Sato-Sadistic and Fascist Bass-Turds that sent you there.
Enough with the Wars already!
It is the worst possible thing we can do with our dwindling resources and loved ones lives.
The Shrub loves it.
They stay home, live high on the hog and get even richer.
Ecstasy is a Bummer!
Reality is tough.
It will make living in Bush-Zarro AmeriKaKa even harder.
Another placebo instead of the cure.
The Truth.
FREEDOM
You want to make their lives better?
Restore their faith in this Country!
Give back their Dreams.
Stop the Lies, Spies and Delusional Nightmares:
In this Cor‘pirate’ Hell Hole!
Ecstasy can only make it tougher.
There are safer and more reliable methods for integration.
There are many proven Relaxation, Exercise, Yoga and Meditative techniques.
There are as many ways as there is people.
Each path personal and unique.
Long walks with Mother Nature are very beneficial.
Occupying the conscious mind so that your inner Light/Spirit can shine.
Expand the possibilities and deepen the Experience.
All the veils will fall away and you will be home again.
What you were born.
With all your Limitless Potential.
I forgive you!
Please forgive me.
Peace!
Everything else is illusion.
The best cure of all?
STOP the WAR!
Protect and support your Family.
Stay Home!
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» RE: The Best Possible Answer of all? STOP THE WAR! Stay Home!
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: The Best Possible Answer of all? STOP THE WAR! Stay Home!
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: KAEL on Feb 11, 2008 5:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: KAEL
Posted by: grn1
» RE:Morally Murky.....??? Please
Posted by: Inlander
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Posted by: garry minor on Feb 11, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: schnoggi on Feb 11, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and to those who snicker in disdain at E, either you haven't done it (in which case just be quiet), or you did bad stuff, or you were just an exception. a good dose in a proper situation is a truly life-changing experience, and it is well time the cultural clenchers backed off.
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» RE: WORD! nm
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, yes, the real answer is to curtail the madness and inhumanity called war. Meanwhile, the drug companies are part of the war. The armed forces are doing experimental drug treatments of combat soldiers - involuntarily, I've read - to make them more inured to the horrors of combat and killing; to make them zombies basically. So, is this not simply the other end of that process, the "treatment" for the consequences of becoming a killing machine, though one still with a psyche, the heart and soul that have become traumatized?
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» RE: Stay human
Posted by: grn1
» RE: You obviously have no idea what you are talking about...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: Intellect on Feb 11, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The troops returning with PTSD are returning now.
Many, many years away is not good enough if this is really something that will help them.
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 11, 2008 7:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sure cure (Maybe NOT)
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: TRUE mick3
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: mick3
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 11, 2008 7:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a Vietnam Vet I can tell you from personal experience,Cannibas Hemp is a far better choice. After months and years of slaughtering and following absurd orders you need something to get by in civillian life and Hemp made the transistion much easier.
I can approve of wanting our people to regain the feeling of love and closeness and family after their return,but I think GENUINE feelings of Love,Family and Closeness is a far better remedy than a drug induced 'love mentality' especially since there's no guarantee that you'll be in a situation where those feelings will be returned. A let down under those circumstances could have disasterous results. At least if you're stoned and someone shoots you down you're more inclined to say
"Cool, I'll just go talk to someone else.".
I think the military squarely has it's collective head-up-its-ass on this one.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7
WE CAN DO BETTER.WE JUST NEED TO DO IT!!!
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» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: jeffrey7
» RE: OK, let's!
Posted by: halkorp
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Posted by: goeswithness on Feb 11, 2008 8:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alchohol was number 5. Cannabis was 11. Ecstasy was 17 or 18. It was said that the risk of using it is "insignificant."
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» RE: Stop trying to corn-fuse these folks with the facts...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: About Ecstasy: the risk is small
Posted by: xtiml
» RE: About Ecstasy: the risk is small
Posted by: goeswithness
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Posted by: blogfrog on Feb 11, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone explain to me how taking a powerful psychotropic drug that rips you out of sober consciousness is in any way an integrating experience? And furthermore, I think the vets had enough of "integating their trauma" into their lives when the Bushmaster launched this unilateral agression and sent them into hell.
Which famous work of fiction speaks of a substance that all in society must take to maintain the state mandated "right" perspective and behavior?
This is getting scary folks...........
real scary.
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» RE:What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: blogfrog
» RE: What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: What is REALLY scary, Mr. Frog is that...
Posted by: halkorp
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: I'd read it again now.
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: blogfrog
» RE: I read Brave New World when it came out...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Yikes
Posted by: LeaveMeAlone
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 8:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Fun" vs. suffering (or stoicism of some sort)is not the issue, as suggested by someone above. That's a cruel joke, spoken by someone who clearly doesn't know the horrors of combat and related traumatic experience. The issue is what really will help this horrendous kind of suffering in the long haul.
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» reconnecting w/ oneself---drug therapy
Posted by: codeye
» RE: MDMA is an introspective experience
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: donnee on Feb 11, 2008 9:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I found that I takes constant vigilance to keep the dark at bay,and the memories of horror from creeping in. Eventually your friends and family slip away, worn out and feeling helpless in the face of the storm that rides your ass, day in and day out with no respite.
It was a dog that finally saved me and then another dog, constant exercise that I wouldn't give to myself (because someone as horrible as I didn't deserve to be teated well) I gave to them willingly, the adoration I received just for coming home and having to come home to feed and care for them, kept me out of other bad situations.
Yeah talk therapy helped, drugs where more trouble than they were worth, what with the side effects and having to see the doctor on a regular basis. But my four legged shamans and Mozart are the best prescription I have found to finally feel semi-whole again.
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» RE: After years of dealing with PTSD
Posted by: xtiml
» RE: After years of dealing with PTSD
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: After years of dealing with PTSD
Posted by: babs
» RE: Become the tennis ball, and see what it does for you.
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: unity1 on Feb 11, 2008 9:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when is this insane humanity going to grow up and learn - when are you americans going to wake up and realize war is NOT patriotic nor is it sane - so far you have killed over 3 million people - no wonder your solders are not coping - the Germans denied the human holocaust also
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» RE: How Ironic
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: How Ironic
Posted by: amazingjim
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Posted by: madmax427 on Feb 11, 2008 9:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: scottml on Feb 11, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: scottml
» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Your epiphany is not uncommon...
Posted by: scottml
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Posted by: xtiml on Feb 11, 2008 10:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE:It is not that simple...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: nobody4prez on Feb 11, 2008 11:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Psychedelics are powerful, and they shouldn't be administered lightly, whether in experimental, clinical, or recreational settings; the disorders for which these medications are most likely to be helpful are sufficiently debilitating as to warrant consider treating them with commensurately powerful methods.
Consider: would you treat a mild headache with morphine? Of course not. Does this mean that morphine is useless? No! It just means it isn't a cure-all and shouldn't be used for mild headaches. If I had cancer, on the other hand, I'd rather have morphine than aspirin. Would a responsible psychiatrist use LSD with someone with a transient or mild problem? No. Should a responsible and appropriately-trained psychiatrist have the option to use powerful tools against powerful foes? Of course!
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» RE: Leary was just telling it like it was...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Psychedelics outside of Psychiatry
Posted by: MobileSucks
» If We Could Blow Some Politicians Minds, It would Be Good!
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: If We Could Blow Some Politicians Minds, It would Be Good!
Posted by: gellero
» RE: Psychedelics (should be) outside of Psychiatry
Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: Psychedelics (should be) outside of Psychiatry
Posted by: gellero
» How does a civilian "visit" with Pharm?
Posted by: Itsthewater
» RE: How do you keep them down on the pharm...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: PeaceLove on Feb 11, 2008 11:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read The Secret Chief online, a beautiful book about a therapist who came out of retirement to conduct therapy using MDMA and psychedelics like LSD:
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/sctoc.html
Jacob postponed his retirement, completely enraptured by the effects of MDMA on himself and his patients. Over the next few years, he traveled around the country, quietly training groups of therapists in the use of MDMA in psychotherapy. He occasionally went to Europe to continue this work among European psychologists and psychiatrists.
At his memorial, I asked one of his oldest friends whether she had any idea as to how many people Jacob might have initiated over the years in the use of psychedelics, and she replied, "Oh, I would guess about four thousand, give or take a few." Rather extraordinary, for a man in his seventies!
I'm not entirely thrilled with the idea of granting an exclusive monopoly on such powerful sacred tools to the therapy community, but it's a start towards a more rational policy. At least the science can advance once again.
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» RE: Very insightful...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 1:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(This copy/pasted from kpfa.org today, 2/11; this is great material, getting a huge reception nationally. Go to the archives on the above station and see if you can catch it -- I believe Dr. B has a book out by this title, hence the talk... He's been doing a lot of speaking/interviews
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» RE: MDMA is not your run of the mill psychiatric drug...nm
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: fifthworld on Feb 11, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guess the poor lad's gonna lead lots of ECTSTASY after this tour of duty...Oy.
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» RE: From Rawstory, "Soldier, After Bipolar Treatment and suicide attempts, sent back to war zone
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: lilcheese71 on Feb 11, 2008 2:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not against using any drug to legitimately help people. However, you can't pop a pill for everything.
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» One pill makes you big, and one pill makes you small, and...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: gellero on Feb 11, 2008 2:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Society will never allow them. They are for select cognocenti.
Read 'Phikal' by Dr. Shulgin. He made and tried them all (200+ isomers). Cookbook included for Organic Chemistry majors.
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» RE: X
Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: X
Posted by: kelethian
» here's how
Posted by: gellero
» Society
Posted by: gellero
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 11, 2008 5:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Posted by: gellero
» RE: Opening the Doors of Perception
Posted by: jimidee
» Salvia
Posted by: gellero
» RE: Salvia
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Feb 11, 2008 7:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See above for the continuing misery of the world.
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Posted by: gellero on Feb 11, 2008 8:59 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Dboy on Feb 11, 2008 11:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After all, who are these 'traumatized' soldiers? Maybe he was the one who was traumatized by setting that 14-year old girls body on fire, along with her family, after raping her? That would certainly be traumatizing.
dboy
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» RE: Agreed...we did get off on a few tangents...
Posted by: jimidee
» RE: Agreed...we did get off on a few tangents...
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: logansafi on Feb 12, 2008 9:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are a group of 'workers' that are our ruling class's elite guard over the rest of us, by and large.
'Oh, Poor People, you have PTSD! You been treating others so damn bad it's begun to hurt even you... Oh the humanity!'
But I have noticed that nobody is particularly worried about other sufferers from traumatic exposures? Has anybody ever heard of any talk about other sufferers of PTSD needing special treatment, such as ER, ICU, or Burn Unit nurses, for just one example? What about those workers exposed to dangerous and toxic factory conditions that grind them down daily? What about cab drivers? And how about the inmates released from prisons?
'Oh, Cell Block Joe, you have a bad case of PTSD! Have some Ecstasy, Dude.'
We need to get over doting on vets as if they were some sort of fragile wilting elite flowers.... heroes, as they wish to often be known as. Most of them eagerly went into a military career with less thought than going into the Postal Service would have given them. And many later come out of the military, just as so many also come out of the Civil Service Postal Service, all tired of their earlier chosen and less than entirely satisfying job choice.
Simply put, the military is a ruling class set up elite that the rest of us continue to fund at the risk of our own PTSD.
'Hand me the marijuana and Ecstasy, please. What, I have know medical insurance? And no Social Security? What! The vets got it?!'
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Posted by: morticia on Feb 12, 2008 12:12 PM
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Posted by: Dboy on Feb 12, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
dboy
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Posted by: jeffreyDee on Feb 12, 2008 1:36 PM
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Posted by: richholland on Feb 12, 2008 6:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-no housing problems
-a good health insurance
- financial security
-cantalk about the problems freely
after the second world war and the colonial wars millions of europeans, soldiers and survivors of terror bombing and concentration camps were building a strong Europe based upon
democratic social ideas of welfare for everyone
instead for a small group of Rich families.
THis is the core of the problems.
A state has the duty to take care of her veterans.
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Posted by: sweet_byrd on Feb 13, 2008 10:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This feeds into my theory that American society (as opposed to individuals or sub-groups) really only begins to take an affliction seriously when it affects men.
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» RE: I'm not comforted by the implications of this for gynecological issues.
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: metamind on Feb 16, 2008 8:07 AM
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Still, it's a mistake to substitute chemical empathy for the real thing. If you can use the chemical to learn how to do it for yourself then it can be a blessing. If you depend on the chemical to alter your consciousness then it can be a bad thing.
As with virtually every drug ... it's how you use it that matters most. Does it help you more than it hurts you or hurt you more than it helps you?
Ecstasy can open one's mind to a capacity to feel for others. If it is combined with psychotherapy it might even be useful in treating some forms of mental disease.
In the big picture we need to stop looking at mental illness as "just a chemical imbalance" and start looking at it as a composite of many different things, including diet, exercise, mental attitude, biochemical imbalance and psychosocial factors. Money is the cause of much depression ... that's our collective "spell" being cast upon each other in with evil consequence.
It's all US. WE are the problem. WE are the solution.
Teach virtue. It works.
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