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Marijuana Policy Project / By Bruce Mirken
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Why Smoking Marijuana Doesn't Make You a Junkie

The idea that marijuana is a "gateway" drug has been once again squelched by two new scientific studies.
December 19, 2006  |  
 
 
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Two recent studies should be the final nails in the coffin of the lie that has propelled some of this nation's most misguided policies: the claim that smoking marijuana somehow causes people to use hard drugs, often called the "gateway theory."

Such claims have been a staple of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy under present drug czar John Walters. Typical is a 2004 New Mexico speech in which, according to the Albuquerque Journal, "Walters emphasized that marijuana is a 'gateway drug' that can lead to other chemical dependencies."

The gateway theory presents drug use as a tidy progression in which users move from legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco to marijuana, and from there to hard drugs like cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine. Thus, zealots like Walters warn, marijuana is bad because it leads to things that are even worse.

It's a neat theory, easy to sell. The problem is, scientists keep poking holes in it -- the two new studies being are just the most recent examples.

In one National Institute on Drug Abuse-funded study, researchers from the University of Pittsburgh tracked the drug use patterns of 224 boys, starting at age 10 to 12 and ending at age 22. Right from the beginning these kids confounded expectations. Some followed the traditional gateway paradigm, starting with tobacco or alcohol and moving on to marijuana, but some reversed the pattern, starting with marijuana first. And some never progressed from one substance to another at all.

When they looked at the detailed data on these kids, the researchers found that the gateway theory simply didn't hold; environmental factors such as neighborhood characteristics played a much larger role than which drug the boys happened to use first. "Abusable drugs," they wrote, "occupy neither a specific place in a hierarchy nor a discrete position in a temporal sequence."

Lead researcher Dr. Ralph E. Tarter told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, "It runs counter to about six decades of current drug policy in the country, where we believe that if we can't stop kids from using marijuana, then they're going to go on and become addicts to hard drugs."

Researchers in Brisbane, Australia, and St. Louis reached much the same conclusion in a larger and more complex study published last month. The research involved more than 4,000 Australian twins whose use of marijuana and other drugs was followed in detail from adolescence into adulthood.

Then -- and here's the fascinating part -- they matched the real-world data from the twins to mathematical models based on 13 different explanations of how use of marijuana and other illicit drugs might be related. These models ranged from pure chance -- assuming that any overlap between use of marijuana and other drugs is random -- to models in which underlying genetic or environmental factors lead to both marijuana and other drug use or models in which marijuana use causes use of other drugs or vice versa.

When they crunched the numbers, only one conclusion made sense: "Cannabis and other illicit drug use and misuse co-occur in the population due to common risk factors (correlated vulnerabilities) or a liability that is in part shared." Translated to plain English: the data don't show that marijuana causes use of other drugs, but instead indicate that the same factors that make people likely to try marijuana also make them likely to try other substances.

In the final blow to claims that marijuana must remain illegal to keep us from becoming a nation of hard-drug addicts, the researchers added that any gateway effect that does exist is "more likely to be social than pharmacological," occurring because marijuana "introduces users to a provider (peer or black marketeer) who eventually becomes the source for other illicit drugs." In other words, the gateway isn't marijuana; it's laws that put marijuana into the same criminal underground with speed and heroin.

The lie that marijuana somehow turns people into junkies is dead. Officials who insist on repeating it as a way of squelching discussion about common-sense reforms should be laughed off the stage.
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Bruce Mirken is communications director for the Marijuana Policy Project.
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Hurray for no new news!
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Posted by: timebomb734 on Dec 19, 2006 12:29 AM   
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Anyone who actually thought marijuana was ever illegal for a legitimate public health risk should be laughed off the stage. This is a disappointing article that rehashes the same old crap any knowledgable person already knows about marijuana.

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» RE: Hurray for no new news! Posted by: Radicalizer
» RE: Hurray for no new news! Posted by: grinch
» RE: Hurray for no new news! Posted by: willymack
» Research is news Posted by: dhardisty

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Don't Decriminalize- Legalize
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 19, 2006 12:56 AM   
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I don't see a joint as being any different than someone drinking a beer- the only difference is the stigma of decades of government misinformation. The war against Marijuana is a farce and should be put away.

No, I don't do the stuff, but the day it becomes legal I'll be the first in line.

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» RE: Don't Decriminalize- Legalize Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Don't Decriminalize- Legalize Posted by: maxwell.bridges@maxbridges.us
» RE: Don't Decriminalize- Legalize Posted by: maxwell.bridges@maxbridges.us
» RE: Don't Decriminalize- Legalize Posted by: maxwell.bridges@maxbridges.us
» RE: Don't Decriminalize- Legalize Posted by: grammasanity

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Plan, Plant, Planet
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Posted by: equidave on Dec 19, 2006 1:03 AM   
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"Our present global crisis is more profound than any previous historical crises; hence our solutions must be equally drastic. I propose that we should adopt the plant as the organizational model for life in the twenty-first century, just as the computer seems to be the dominant mental/social model of the late twentieth century, and the steam engine was the guiding image of the nineteenth century.

This means reaching back in time to models that were successful fifteen thousand to twenty thousand years ago. When this is done it becomes possible to see plants as food, shelter, clothing, and sources of education and religion.

The process begins by declaring legitimate what we have denied for so long. Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous."

terence mckenna
from: http://deoxy.org/t_ppp.htm

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» Ok but Posted by: jwg
» RE: Ok but Posted by: equidave

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believe
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Posted by: rsaxto on Dec 19, 2006 2:16 AM   
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Since the Bushies don't believe in science, these worthwhile studies will have no effect as long as the Bushies remain in power. Out, you Brazen Bushie Bums.

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» RE: believe Posted by: timebomb734
» I'm losing money here... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: believe Posted by: rsaxto

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Colonel Pepper's Solution
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Posted by: treyhaltom on Dec 19, 2006 4:25 AM   
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Not only does it not make you a junkie, it tends to increase your IQ and enhances your understanding of subtler dimensions and circumstances.

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» DEFENDING POTHEADS??! Posted by: Argh the Defender
» RE: Colonel Pepper's Solution Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Colonel Pepper's Solution Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: Colonel Pepper's Solution Posted by: bornxeyed

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Less of a gateway if legal.
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Posted by: colinmeister on Dec 19, 2006 4:32 AM   
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The only logical reason I can see why smokers of marijuana might move to other illegal drugs is because they have to come into contact with dealers in illegal drugs to obtain their supplies. If a customer is buying marijuana, and the dealer asks if the customer has tried/would like to try cocaine, there is a chance that the customer might buy two drugs from the dealer instead of one.

Make marijuana legal, and this aspect goes away.

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» What I mean to say is... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Withdrawals? Nah Posted by: harpy
» Maybe we just like to get high Posted by: aaronfetty
» RE: Maybe we just like to get high Posted by: Madam Hatter

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Don't bogart that point, my friend
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bic Pentameter on Dec 19, 2006 4:38 AM   
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Pass the mic on to me...

I heard John Walters on NPR about 3 years ago with two other common myths: the increasing number of marijuana addicts and the vastly more potent marijuana of today.

First, we don't recognize marijuana addiction when it comes to disabilities and secondly, don't blame me if someone sold you ditchweed back in the day.

As for the first, I voluntarily stay away from it for extended periods whenever I want, and as for the second, it depended on who you knew or where you got it. Still does, to a degree,

I remember some 'Ganja' from '74 that left stains in the bag from the high resin content. One little skinny would take care of a roomful. I only wish someone else would bring more of that to town! Granted, there was a lot of mean green, but the redbud, Hawaiian, Thai stick, etc, was available too.

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» Not true at all Posted by: harpy
» RE: Not true at all Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Not true at all Posted by: Madam Hatter
» NPR is 90% Propaganda Posted by: rwa

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Pot
[Report this comment]
Posted by: crusty on Dec 19, 2006 5:20 AM   
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They dont call it dope for nothing. Most people use it to justify self medication instead of dealing with lifes problems head on. Its a big waste of time money and perfectly good brain cells... Give me Belgian beer any day. Or Italian wine. OR how bout this try living without a buzz.

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» RE: Pot Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Pot Posted by: JCR
» Absolutely! Posted by: Aim
» RE: Pot Posted by: sausage
» RE: Pot Posted by: crusty
» RE: Pot Posted by: JCR
» RE: What the heck? Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Pot Posted by: grolan
» RE: Pot Posted by: crusty
» RE: Pot Posted by: purplelotus13
» RE: Pot Posted by: crusty
» So what's the difference? Posted by: harpy
» RE: So what's the difference? Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Pot :only dopes call it dope Posted by: sasquuatch55

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Well duh.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: pball on Dec 19, 2006 5:44 AM   
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Post hoc ergo propter hoc...

Of course "hard" drug users are likely to have started with pot, not because pot causes hard drug use but because hard drug users passed it along the way to coke or crack or heroin or whatever.

It's like saying "Speeding is a gateway crime to MURDER! 100% of murderers committed speeding BEFORE they ever killed!" May be factually correct but that don't make it true (see link).

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Only a gateway because...
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Posted by: inanaturallight on Dec 19, 2006 5:55 AM   
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...because, as I did, once kids get ahold of some and try it they realize that the adults were filling them full of s**t about it, and thus about all drugs, so why not find out for yourself? I don't know what nutty propaganda and scare stories they use about it to our youth in modern times, in my day it was called physically addictive and was supposed to turn you into an instant Charles Manson, it was considered infinitely worse than alcohol at the time.
Some also seem to want to see it as a cure for the world's ills and that to me is a misperception as dire as that of the 'gateway proponets', but people are going to try to find escape, and the "legal" alternatives, tobacco and alcohol, seem to be more dangerous in myriad ways.
I suspect if we as a society were more truthful with our children about this and other things fewer of them would be trying to find escape in drugs. The society we live in drives our youth to escape at exactly the same time their sense of right and wrong and responsibility is developing, and if we as a society could find ways to delay this experimentation until "adulthood" I think we as a society would end up better off. Incarceration serves no one but the people running the incarceration business.

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» Excellent points Posted by: WhuThe?!?

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You could say welcome to the bleeding obvious....
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Posted by: cordas on Dec 19, 2006 6:33 AM   
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However whilst its so obvious to many, there are some people who are entrenched in a bizarre world of denial and make belief, where everything is tied together in very simple explanations that adsolve themselves and the state from any responsibility.

The ONLY way that hash is a gateway drug is that it introduces users to criminals who want to make money out of them, and these criminals want to get them onto "hard" addictive drugs.

Yes I know that ignores the influence of peer pressure, experimentation and those people who seeking the oblivion that hard drugs give, but if you remove the criminal link between hash and the hard drugs then the peer pressure will lessen as the peers will be less likely to take these drugs in the 1st place, after all they have to do the drugs for the 1st time just like "precious timmy who was led astray". Kids will always experiment and will always push the boundaries thats part of growing up, but removing this link will help to cut that down as well.

The last step to having a working drug policy would be for the state to give away hard drugs like crack and heroin free, to registered users, this could be done in a regulated and controled manner, but this could not be too tight or you would drive the users back to the black market.

Legalise the drugs, control those you don't want in society and you will drive the criminals out of the business (or turn them legitimate which would be my prefered option) and you will have less problems with drugs.

Just to drive the point home, how much of a problem is alcohol in the early 21st century compared to the early 20th when prohibition was in place and the mob ruled the trade?

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Dave's not here man
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Posted by: mat38 on Dec 19, 2006 6:45 AM   
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Look, pot is a gateway drug. So are chemically treated tobacco and booze. In fact, more kids today are getting high from slamming Robitussen PH (something I did back inthe seventies once - not fun).
Mind altering drugs are just that - mind altering. No matter how you spin, being high all of th time, well, it's not the best way to go through life.
Now, I believe we shold legalize it and give people the choice to have really good, clean, untreated and unadulterated weed. If we do that we can tax it, make hemp products much more usefull, especially as alternative fuel sources, and we can put an end to that disaster called the Drug War.
It's time for change.

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» RE: Dave's not here man Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Dave left man Posted by: jwg
» RE: Dave's not here man Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Dave's not here man Posted by: mat38
» RE: Dave's not here man Posted by: bornxeyed

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Again, missing the real point
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Posted by: P. Hermes on Dec 19, 2006 7:10 AM   
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Marijuana is banned because it runs counter to the prevailing American, narrow and unempathetic worldview. Pot's unlocking of empathy and deep thought is a danger to this adolescent and shallow society's valueless and aggressive way of thinking, expressing and living. No wonder smoking pot in America has become an increasingly "downer" experience. It's the society and its values that make any enjoyable substance a gateway drug.

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» RE: Again, missing the real point Posted by: Argh the Defender
» Well, no... you are wrong. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Well, no... you are wrong. Posted by: aonghus36

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Marijuana is safer than alcohol in every way!
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Dec 19, 2006 7:13 AM   
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Marijuana is safer than alcohol in every way!
Legalize pot!

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If I were any of you, I'd join the fight with the libertarians to ABOLISH THE DEA !!!
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 19, 2006 7:21 AM   
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That's the only way we can get rid of the motherfucking poisons marketed thanks to a RIGGED market for Big Pharma and market real solutions. Marijuana causes no death compared to alcohol and tobacco and yet the motherfucking DEA made marijuana illegal 70 years ago and gave us the Middle East crisis in the process (hint: hemp would have eliminated the need to beg the mideast for crude oil).

P.S.: I met a few DEA members who confessed that the vast majority of the DEA are HEAVY alcoholics and smoke at least two packs of cigarettes a day and I'm not joking!

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As if
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Posted by: LMNOP on Dec 19, 2006 7:22 AM   
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"Two recent studies should be the final nails in the coffin of the lie that has propelled some of this nation's most misguided policies: the claim that smoking marijuana somehow causes people to use hard drugs, often called the "gateway theory."

Oh yeah. The final nails. As soon as Curious George and his goons see and analyze this data, they'll be forced to stop calling marijuana a gateway drug because they are so open-minded, honest and dedicated to science and truth.

The people that promulgated that crap never believed it in the first place, and no data will affect their cant.

By the way, did you now that education is a gateway "drug" to a life of crime? It's a fact. Almost every person in prison started out in school years earlier.

Also, orange juice causes cancer. Virtually every cancer patient reports having consumed some in the twenty years preceeding the diagnosis of cancer.

This is the same quality of evidence offered for marijuana - most heroine abusers started out with pot. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You've got to be certifiable to believe anything coming from the American government is honest or sincere.

You cannot expect honest discourse with liars, and that is who dictates drug policy. They are not convinced of anything by scientific studies.

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Me too!
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Posted by: symcokid on Dec 19, 2006 7:24 AM   
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If taking a few 'hits' is good enough for the Bush daughters, it's good enough for me too!

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Puff Puff, Pass Pass!
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Posted by: tiptopshape on Dec 19, 2006 7:43 AM   
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I have been smoking marijuana since 1965, and the way I got started was by drinking 3.2 beer in high school and college, and smoking tobacco. The gateway drugs are these two, and not the other way around. Oh, by the way, I haven't gotten into other, harder drugs, I just stick with my pot. I'm 58 years old.

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» RE: Puff Puff, Pass Pass! Posted by: outlander55

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Marijuana used to be legal...
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Posted by: outlander55 on Dec 19, 2006 7:58 AM   
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until the alcohol and tobacco lobby urged the government to make it illegal. Most people who smoke pot don't drink liquer or smoke tobacco. It is all about economics.
Mother nature produces pot, man makes liquer. Who do you trust?

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believe nothing
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Posted by: pg on Dec 19, 2006 8:10 AM   
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you are a pea brain if you believe bush is the pot problem...

Think DuPont... they would hate to see people using hemp instead of Nylon or other synthetic fibres...

Think big Pharma Companies... they would hate to see people growing medicinal products in their back yards...

Think Oil companies... they would hate to see people using natural lubricants and they would hate to lose DuPonts business making syntheic fibre which mostly are made from oil.

Think big agra biz....and the list goes on...

The prohibition against pot is corporate and it is bigger and older than any one president

Then again, if Clinton admited he really did inhale now that he is not President...maybe we could make some progress...

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» RE: believe nothing Posted by: Shey
» RE: believe nothing Posted by: denverd

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Out from the shadows
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Posted by: JCR on Dec 19, 2006 8:13 AM   
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To anyone who believes marijuana is a dangerous drug, I can only say this: try it first. Used chronically, marijuana can become problematic, but here are some words to live by - aurea mediocritas.

To be completely honest, it is more carcinogenic than cigarettes but one should never consider (nor would they be capable of) smoking marijuana with the same frequency. Smoking marijuana even a couple of times a day is a very low risk activity when compared to the negative effects resulting from cigarette smoking, alcohol consumption and harder drug use. It appears that most readers are well aware that alcohol is responsible for far more deaths due to overdose and drunk driving, and most seem to understand that smoking dope does NOT kill brain cells the way alcohol obviously does. I don't think we need to go into the correlation between violent crime and alcohol do we?

Many have offered explanations why marijuana may or may not be a "gateway drug" but in the end it depends heavily on the person. Let's face it - some people may actually look for the next best high after tiring of marijuana (the vast majority do not however) while some may only end up using harder drugs as a result of their exposure to dealers and assorted "harder" users. Take marijuana out of scary basement apartments and into drug stores and remove that threat. Pot smokers usually come into contact with a few hardened rock star type party freaks who often use grass to bring them down from a long, coke-fueled night of partying. They may buy from those types who sell it to pay for meth. It's a bad situation for anyone to be in just to cop a bag.

It's complicated but what is apparent to me is that it has less to do with physical predisposition and more to do with the environment in which pot smokers find themselves. Take pot out of sketchy environments and put it where it belongs - out in the light of day where it can be examined and dealt with.

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» site your source Posted by: chrstof
» RE: Out from the shadows Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Out from the shadows Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Out from the shadows Posted by: bornxeyed
» What about vaporization? Posted by: Chris420

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Only a gateway drug because...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lahlah on Dec 19, 2006 8:28 AM   
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...of the propaganda associated with marijuana. If someone tries pot and realizes how inocuous it really is (even compared to alcohol), s/he might also assume the same is true for cocaine, heroin, and other addictive and dangerous drugs.

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The drug war's a religion, not a policy
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Posted by: spacecadet on Dec 19, 2006 8:50 AM   
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All the studies disproving this or that absurdity won't change one mind of one drug warrior. The real issue is this "12-step" religion that has brainwashed too large a part of our population. Even if you could prove that MJ (or any other drug) was totally harmless physically it wouldn't matter to these frauds. They would still consider anyone who used it, even in moderation, to be a spiritually unclean addict.

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» 12 step programs Posted by: churchofone
» RE: 12 step programs Posted by: Lauren
» RE: 12 step programs Posted by: spacecadet

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DUMB STONER... bring back the Sativas!
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Posted by: YinRising on Dec 19, 2006 9:03 AM   
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The "gateway" theory has NEVER shown causation, only correlation. It has always been easily debunked by pointing out the cannabis users' prior experience with drugs like caffiene.

The myth that gets me is the one that marijuana makes users "slow or dumb."
Most people fail to realize that there are differences in Marijuana.

Some make you feel energetic and creative, such as Sativa varieties.
Some do make users feel sleepy or relaxed, such as Indica dominant varieties. They are excellent for treating nausea however.

IGNORANCE, not knowing which is which, and therefore being unable to properly titrate, is the problem, not marijuana itself.

PROHIBITION creates and maintains this IGNORANCE.

PROHIBITION also reduced the amount of cannabis that was coming up through Mexico. This WAS mostly outdoor grown sativa that the hippies grew up on and helped expand their consciousness.

Now, because of PROHIBITION herb has to be grown indoors due to light, height, security and economic reasons. This bud is overwhelmingly Indica and is responsible for the lethargy that is seen in heavy cannabis(indica) users.

Imagine if the Government forced the drug store to remove the labels from the Daytime and Night time cold syrups. You'd probably see some groggy people walking around after taking the wrong one. But is that the fault of cold medicine, the patient, or the Government that forced the removal of the labels?

Bring back the Sativas!

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Take marijuana out of scary basement apartments and into drug stores and remove that threat.
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Posted by: boing007 on Dec 19, 2006 9:07 AM   
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Forget the drugstores, the government, whomever. Grow your own and to hell with paying more taxes than you do already.

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and how about this?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: punabear on Dec 19, 2006 9:15 AM   
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Google "marijuana lung cancer" You'll find that an exhaustive study done at the request of the government by one of their own researchers finds that is there no lung cancer caused by smoking marijuana. In fact it turns out that smoking pot PREVENTS lung cancer. I kid you not. Check it out.

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The main man will come across in grand fashion.
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Posted by: symcokid on Dec 19, 2006 10:01 AM   
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The New Years prediction is that George "DoobieYah" Bush will legalize marajuana before his two years in office is up. He wants to appease the folks so they overlook all of his atrocities and War Crimes in Iraq and elsewhere.

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» No way! Posted by: bifemmefatale

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Legalize LSD too!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Landbaron on Dec 19, 2006 10:05 AM   
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You can't take that the next day, it won't do nothing. Millions of people were enjoying that drug until a hand ful of people did something stupid. Look how many people are doing stupid things with alcohol? It would be perfect if they could find an antidote in case of a bad trip for someone who got scared.

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» RE: Legalize LSD too! Posted by: Aim
» RE: Legalize LSD too! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Legalize LSD too! Posted by: Landbaron
» Not the same stuff.. Posted by: harpy
» RE: Not the same stuff.. Posted by: aonghus36
» Never!! Posted by: harpy

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Employers are Hooked on Exploiting the Underclass
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Posted by: rwa on Dec 19, 2006 10:32 AM   
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Prison record? Plenty of employers will hire you at 50% off.
Failed a random drug test? You will lose out but somebody else will take advantage. Anymore, this is a major interest in maintaining the status quo. Though the prison industrial complex is a bigger influence.

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» Not all employers exploit Posted by: churchofone

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who ever said marijuana causes harder drug use
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Posted by: Windspear on Dec 19, 2006 10:37 AM   
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i think you could be the first to say that the the chemical substances of marijuanna causes a need for harder drugs. a gateway drug simply means that the use of marijuanna elevates the risk of using a harder/more dangerous drug in the future.

The large study that you cited supports that hypothesis. The context of marijuanna use serves to foster values, attitudes and relationships that facilitate the use of more dangerous drugs.

doesn't mean that everyone follows the same pathway to drugs or even gets addicted to more serious substances-only the the use of marijuanna has risks

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you guys are missing the point...
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Dec 19, 2006 10:39 AM   
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of course marijuana isnt a gateway drug.. nor is torture a useful tool to extract vital intelligence information from "terrorist suspects"...both claims are of course correct..but the point your missing is that the factual and/or scientific arguments against the govts individual positions dont matter...the only facts that do matter right now have been concisely stated by george orwell .."the object of persecution is persecution...the object of torture is torture...the object of power is power..."

its not about drugs...and the fact that bushs' lies are so laughably obvious strongly suggests that they are meant to be so in order to further humiliate the populace...

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unalienable right to life, liberty, and pusuit of happiness...
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Posted by: channing on Dec 19, 2006 11:15 AM   
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i have never understood where our federal government thought at any time that federal law could so dismiss this segment of our US Constitution, written in the PREAMBLE of the document... where does it say in the above sentence that we can regulate people's bodies (drugs, abortion, sex), or their definition of happiness (high, depressed, engaged/disengaged), or interfere with the LIBERTY of people who are not interfering with the life, liberty or happiness of other people?

i truly believe one day the people who grant government its power over us, will one day recognize that any law meddling with the people's constitutionally-guaranteed, Preamble-affirming right to choose for ourselves anything under the sun, that does not cause harm or injury to any other person is clearly defined as a violation of our constitution. this would include drug use, consensual sex among adults, seatbelts, obviously abortion, speech etc.,.

but there is one simple solution, particularly with reversing cannabis law:

ARREST US ALL OR CHANGE THE LAW!

if we only coordinate one single day across the country, say 4/20/?, and agree to show up at our local incarceration depot, each of us carrying a joint, bowl, bong, the facilities available for incarceration would prove entirely inadequate to uphold the law. in my little town of 150,000 people for instance, there are at least 10,000 regular users, and if even 1/3 of these chronic users showed up, the 3-4,000 people standing outside the jail singing or yelling or sign-carrying (violent-free and peacefully), ARREST US ALL OR CHANGE THE LAW!, well, the jail we have will hold a few hundred at most, with the rest waiting and insisting on justice, the justice to be arrested according to the law, or the termination of the law that cannot be upheld in the real world... where do you think our lawmakers would land, nationwide? National guard, or decriminalizing?

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Re: the drug war's a religion, not a policy
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Posted by: spacecadet on Dec 19, 2006 11:53 AM   
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Actually, the counselors don't make that much money. It's the owners and "medical" directors of the "treatment" centers who make the big bucks. Also, most of the people in the industry are members of AA or NA themselves and usually dominate the local groups. I've seen group consciences where the only people present (other than myself) were treatment center employees and probation office employees. And yes the steppers dominate the criminal justice system big time.

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painter
[Report this comment]
Posted by: inkings on Dec 19, 2006 1:02 PM   
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You don't have to smoke pot, just chew a little bit very slowly.

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» RE: painter Posted by: bornxeyed
» Chewing? ewww Posted by: Coleman

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America jails more than any other nation worldwide
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Dec 19, 2006 2:05 PM   
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... this is possible because the police will put you in jail for smoking a harmless plant... unless you're rich and white enough.

Since Nixon started the war on drugs in 1973, more and more Americans have had thier lives destroyed by a law that equates "marijuana" (note; it's a Mexican word) with nazi crank and heroin in severity.

It's a war alright... and the American people lost (and are in jail). Do not ever let a cop ruin your life over a joint.

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addicted to Science Fiction
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Posted by: may261989 on Dec 19, 2006 3:29 PM   
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The only thing weed has made me addicted to is the Sci Fi channel. I just cant weed(sorry!) myself off it.
Unless, of course, there's a "Medium" marathon on. Then I go cold turkey.

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Yeah, right...
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Posted by: TagsNOLA on Dec 19, 2006 3:45 PM   
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Whether weed is a gateway drug or not isn't even the point. Reefer is just another means of making people dull and stupid, anesthetizing us against hard cold reality. I'm surprised the government hasn't legalized it already. But if they ever did, I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Hasn't what the tobacco companies did with cigarettes, making them massively more addictive with all their chemical and genetic manipulation taught us anything? If the government legalizes pot, the trade gets funnelled into the larger corporate cartels who then jack with it until it's 10 times more potent that it already is and they'll *find* a way to make it genuinely physically addicitive and *then* they'll jack up the price ten times over.

Get real. Marijuana legaization is a bad deal for 'we the people.' They'll make *sure* of that. If it were not so, why would the billionaire George Soros be *for* legalization?

TagsNOLA

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» RE: Yeah, right... Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Yeah, right... Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Yeah, right... Posted by: bornxeyed

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Biggest Cash Crop in the Nation
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Posted by: lessbread on Dec 19, 2006 4:26 PM   
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Pot is called biggest cash crop

[quote]
...
A report released today by a marijuana public policy analyst contends that the market value of pot produced in the U.S. exceeds $35 billion — far more than the crop value of such heartland staples as corn, soybeans and hay, which are the top three legal cash crops.
...
Nationwide, the estimated cannabis production of $35.8 billion exceeds corn ($23 billion), soybeans ($17.6 billion) and hay ($12.2 billion), according to Gettman's findings.
...
[/quote]

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If Legal, Many Would Grow It/Such Hypocrisy!
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Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 19, 2006 5:10 PM   
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Well, how marijuana would be regulated if legalized I don't fully know but if legal in any form, many would start growing it and even if the government said not to grow it, that would be like prohibition and would never work. So, once marijuana is decriminalized it will be like it is in Amsterdam now, with everyone growing it basically for their own personal use. But, another part of the argument is what about the rights of the individual? Every doctor knows alcohol is a far more dangerous drug then marijuana, yet it is legal and you have a "right" to use it. You also have a right to use other drugs of dubious value. Such as many dietary supplements. Then you have drugs requiring a prescription, some even quite dangerous but which won't lbe pulled from the market because big Pharma controls the FDA. So US drug policy is simultaneously unscientific, hypocritical, and violates the fundamental rights of the individual. As for the so-called "war on drugs," with it's 1,000,000 prisoners in American jails and thousands of ruined lives and people killed, the only thing stupider I can think of is another war, the war in Iraq.

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» RE: AND THE ANSWER IS.... Posted by: bornxeyed

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Is it really good for you?
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Posted by: philobat on Dec 19, 2006 7:04 PM   
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It does cause memory loss. And it can cause cancer. But hey! Almost everything will give you cancer these days. Everything in moderation!

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» RE: Is it really good for you? Posted by: aonghus36

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Logged your IPs and your preferences
[Report this comment]
Posted by: appelpie on Dec 19, 2006 7:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We use large scale grid computing to mine data such as this site offers. Your internet browsing habits, blog posts, on-line commerce, and emails are compiled with your IP addresses to establish a profile of not only who you are, but what you think.
You're not anonymous. We obtain your names via the MAC addresses of the machines you use and the more-than-willing cooperation of your service providers.
We know more about you than think. So keep it up. Tell us what you think...
Porter Goss

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Government Can't Instill Fear Unless You Are Sober
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Posted by: hole11 on Dec 20, 2006 6:24 AM   
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The government or it's licensed lackys want us to believe whatever they say. If you are stoned you won't care. Matter of fact you would probably laugh at them and they won't like it. Eventually they will beat us, shock us or shoot us to get their point across. If we are not with them we are the enemy. Hang on...(puff), yeah, (cough cough) they know what is best for us...if we could give them more power...they might leave us alone...

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

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LIKE CREATIONISM
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Posted by: Just Curious on Dec 20, 2006 6:25 AM   
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Two recent studies should be the final nails in the coffin of the lie that has propelled some of this nation's most misguided policies: the claim that smoking marijuana somehow causes people to use hard drugs, often called the "gateway theory."

IT SHOULD BUT IT WON'T.

ARGUMENTS AGAINST CANNABIS AS AGAINST ALL THE OTHER DRUGS IS LIKE CREATIONISM IN THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION: MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, IT'S NOT BASED ON THE LOGICAL CONFUTATION OF ANOTHERS POINT OF VIEW, BACKED UP BY HARD SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. RATHER, IT IS AN OPINION DOGMATICALLY HELD AND DEFENDED - OFTEN INSINCERELY AND FOR POLITICALLY MOTIVATED REASONS.

ERGO, ARGUING WITH MOST ANTI-DRUGS PEOPLE (ESPECIALY IF THEY ARE FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT) IS LIKE ARGUING WITH A CREATIONIST: A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.

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» RE: LIKE CREATIONISM Posted by: richholland

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General agreement
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jmooney on Dec 20, 2006 10:50 AM   
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I generally agree with this although I do think that when one dabbles in any substance that reduces her or his inhibitions and judgment there is the possibility of unintended consequences, such as being introduced to a more troublesome substance. But the same can be said of alcohol and that's legal.

Had prohibition not be repealed, one could make a stronger argument for the illegality of pot. But with alcohol legal and a lot of evidence suggesting that pot is no worse than alcohol and is in some way actually healthier, we'll, I cannot see why pot continues to be illegal.

Sure, some pot smokers may graduate to other drugs, but I don't think it is the substance that is the gateway but, as the writer says, probably the sociology of purchasing the drug from someone who may have other drug "hook ups," and, as I said, the reduction inhibition while high on pot might make him or her more susceptible to being enticed into trying another substance. That is just common sense.

I choose to live free of all such substances and find life to be very rewarding that way. My previous experiences with substances haven't been all that sweet. I know some who do a little pot, a little drinking, and it is all good. But some of us can't. And we might not find that out until it is too late. So, as an end around on the entire problem, I just don't do it. But for others who can successful drink and or smoke pot (and I guess do other stuff recreationally, though that seems to get progressively harder as one goes up (or down) the drug scale), have at it.

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The Real Gateway to Common Sense
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Posted by: bassman on Dec 20, 2006 10:52 AM   
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Reporting common sense is not a waste of time. I saw a new study in the NYTimes last month that proves that eating vegetables (especially green leafy ones) is good for you! This might seem common sense to you, but in a country that either sent W to the White House twice (or a country that stood by as he illegally assumed control, I don't know which scenario is worse) everyone's nose should be rubbed in common sense daily. And by the way, as anyone with children can attest, spinning around for as long as you possibly can and then standing there in wonder as your perspective, and possibly all of your assumptions of reality, are challenged... that is the true gateway drug, and thank God!!!! www.wooleye.com

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Bush can't kick habit of military might
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Posted by: rwa on Dec 20, 2006 2:34 PM   
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HERE WE GO again: A new secretary of defense and yet another call for ending the war in Iraq by escalating it. What are they smoking in the Bush White House?

Even as government statistics now show marijuana is America's No. 1 cash crop, it is important to remember that militarism is the most dangerous drug threatening our sanity. Yet even formerly sober folks -- first Colin Powell and now new Secretary of Defense Robert Gates -- get a contact high from cozying up to the walking hallucinogen that is our president...

The convenient lie behind all of this is that U.S. military occupation is the indispensable agent of Mideast enlightenment. No, we have become the enablers of Iraqi madness, be it in the form of torture or the ascendancy of religious tyranny in Iraq where daily life has been reduced to an unmitigated horror.

Yet, like a junkie who needs one more hit to get his life in order, Bush is hooked on the drug of military might. If the Democrats continue to feed his dangerous habit they will only help Bush visit greater mayhem upon Iraq while undermining the core values of our own country.

Full article:(remove space)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/art icle.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/20/EDGOULJ69J1.DTL

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LSD should come under a perscription like marajuana
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Posted by: Landbaron on Dec 20, 2006 6:55 PM   
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It's not for the weak-minded!

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marihuana is a DRUG
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Posted by: richholland on Dec 20, 2006 9:16 PM   
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in Holland you are allowed to grow about 4 plants, besides that we have many coffeeshop where you can buy it legally but the coffeshop are NOT allowed to sell beer or alcohol.

Because ganja is just as bad as tobacco but in combination with alcohol and STRESSsituation it can cause CANNABISPSYCHOSES.
Therefor you can be arrested in Amsterdam drinking a can of beer and smoking a joint in the street.
Trading harddrugs still is a crime, but people who use it are not put in jail.
Please think about your American way of life, are you better off than the majority of Europe????
There is a movie of Denzel Washington: Deja Vu; are there really so many terrorists in America????
Does poverty mean that you were lazy or/and stupid???

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A man convinced againsy his will
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Dec 21, 2006 12:07 AM   
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"Two recent studies should be the final nails in the coffin of the lie that has propelled some of this nation's most misguided policies: the claim that smoking marijuana somehow causes people to use hard drugs, often called the "gateway theory.""

A man convinced againsy his will
Is of his own opinion still

Especially if he has a large monetary interest...

Ian

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THE SECRET IS OUT
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Posted by: hot under the collar on Dec 21, 2006 8:26 AM   
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One of the barriers of this issue is the liquor companies. Supposedly the propaganda movie "Reefer Madness" released in the 1930's was financed by liquor companies that were worried about losing customers as prohibition had just been lifted relatively recently.

Once governments realize the legalization of the drug will generate huge $ for them the process will begin. We should all remember as well that hemp is one of the most versatile plants on the planet and should be replacing man-made products like nylon rope for example that uses petroleum in its production which contributes to global warming.

As alchol should be consumed responsibly so should marijuana. If you are smoking pot all day long you have a problem just as you would if you drank alchol all day long. However consuming a minimal amount of pot in your own home and not driving while stoned is no more harmful than having a drink and a smoke (cigarette).

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» RE: THE SECRET IS OUT Posted by: richholland

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I'm happy to see all these fellow stoners on here.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sasquuatch55 on Dec 21, 2006 1:45 PM   
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Toke aaahn !

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Crap -- Now They All Know
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Posted by: roberteggleton on Dec 24, 2006 3:05 PM   
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Hi -- I'm a 55 year old therapist in a children's mental health program in West Virginia -- the state with the highest rate of child maltreatment deaths in the U.S. Author proceeds from the sale of my first science fiction novel are donated to prevent child abuse.

My novel just received its third book review. Unlike the first two, it mentions "bud" as a contributor to the protagonists' efforts to save the universe. While accurate, I hope it doesn't hurt sales to opponents before they can be converted.

Thank you and Happy holidays.

Robert Eggleton

Following are relevant links:

www.fatcatpress.com - the publisher, a few blurbs by authors, click on the book cover for a sample and to order (more blurbs, including one by Piers Anthony, are available on request).

www.wingspanquarterly.com -- a satirical essay about promotion of Rarity from the Hollow, click on the cover, then my name -- Robert Eggleton.

www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=30929 -- $2 more here, but different electronic formats, such as to take on the trail or to the beach.

okalrel.org/lynda_reads/2006/11/rarity-from-hollow-
(add: www. in front and by-robert-eggleton.html to the above address)

www.specficworld.com/books/index.html -- a site that gave me free advertising for a year.

www.baryon-online.com/baryon103/rarho.html -- 1st professional review, by a famous science fiction reviewer.

http://www.missourireview.com/tmr-blog/?p=310 -- second recent review by an editor of a major book review firm.

http://katlynstewart.com/author.htm -- 1st free advertising on a child abuse survivor site.

www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_06/rarity_hollow.html

There have been other contributors that were not mentioned above so as to eliminate redundancy of content.

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DEA b/s
[Report this comment]
Posted by: putman9 on Dec 25, 2006 7:26 AM   
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Mary jo is a depressant, just like alcohol. If you're a chronic and use it all the time, then its a problem in its effects on your brain. Everything in moderation...if its not instantly addictive- and pot is not physically addictive. It can remain in your fat cells for 6- mos. Your body produces it naturally-just like opiates.
Its not a gateway drug. I've done pot, and I won't do other drugs, since I know they are addictive. Its a natural substance. So is peyote a gateway drug leading to addiction of other drugs, when its used by Native Americans? Then why aren't they all addicts? (rolls eyes)

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» RE: DEA b/s Posted by: drblack

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Give me a break
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cosmicgold on Dec 26, 2006 8:26 AM   
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Statistically..more deaths, violence,rapes,and brutality have been induced by hard core drugs ie cocaine,crack,meth-amphetamine,and alcohol. the only thing I've ever noticed is that smoking weed has caused a 99% increase in the purchase of Twinkies!!! Happy trails!

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