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Bad Medicine?
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And so -- judging by the actions of the attorney general after that statement was issued -- are drugs. Although a wide expanse of independent and government-funded research into cannabis has proven the drug to be less dangerous than sometimes-lethal, but nevertheless legal, substances such as alcohol and tobacco, that accumulating body of evidence did nothing to shrink the growing impasse over marijuana (cannabis).
In fact, barely two years later, and in the midst of a frenetic Department of Justice scramble to secure America against the sort of terrorists that assaulted us on 9/11, there stood Ashcroft and his colleagues, announcing the arrest of...Tommy Chong. For selling -- what else? -- bongs.
Although Chong's son Paris was the chief architect of the company Chong Glass -- as well as its Nice Dreams series of smoking pipes -- it was Tommy (the stoner icon that helped make Cheech and Chong one of 20th-century counterculture's funnier experiments) that "was the more responsible corporate officer, because he financed and marketed the product," U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan told LA Weekly. The punishment came down on Chong, ironically enough, on September 11, 2003: Nine-month prison bid, $20,000 fine and more than $100,000 in personal assets seized.
And while some may not blink at that sentence, it's fair to rewind the clock some before moving onward into America's continuing war on weed.
In the mid-'90s, when Dan Burton, Jr., son of the virulently anti-drug U.S. Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN), was busted in Louisiana for transporting almost eight pounds of marijuana, and was found a scant six months afterwards in his Indianapolis residence with 30 cannabis plants and a shotgun nearby, the feds declined to prosecute the case. Instead, Burton was ordered by a Louisiana judge to engage in community service. (This is the same Rep. Burton who tried to pass a bill that would subject some drug traffickers to the death penalty, and who obsessively helped rake President Clinton over Monica Lewinsky's coals.)
When Republican congressman Spencer Bachus' son Warren was apprehended in 1993 for possession of cannabis -- as well as possession of the kind of drug paraphernalia that cost Tommy Chong nine months of his life and a suitcase full of $100 dollar bills -- the younger Bachus wasn't even convicted. In fact, he was set free after paying $56 in court expenses.
Fast forward several years later and nothing, as far as the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) is concerned, seems to have changed on the cannabis front.
Unless you ask the 500 law enforcement and child welfare service agencies across the 45 states that participated in the National Association of Counties (NACO) recent survey on drugs, in which over 58 percent of those polled argued that meth -- not marijuana -- is the nation's top drug epidemic. In fact, less than 20 percent polled named cocaine as a major culprit, and an even smaller contingency laid the blame at the feet of cannabis. All of which seems to conflict with the arguments of the DEA and Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) -- which is managed by the nation's drug czar, John P. Walters -- who contend that cannabis is still the nation's de facto drug problem.
This attitude seems to fly in the face of scientific facts, whether they are provided by cannabis anti-jail groups like the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP) and National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws (NORML), or hard-science advocates like the nonprofit Institute of Medicine (IOM), a component of the National Academy of Sciences which conducts research and dispenses advice to the nation-at-large on medicine, biology and health.
"Both the DEA and ONDCP[‘s missions are] to make sure that marijuana remains illegal," argues Keith Stroup, NORML's executive director. "ONDCP regularly puts out press releases and runs public service ads claiming marijuana is the number one drug problem we face in America today. Keep in mind, alcohol kills 50,000 people each year; tobacco kills 430,000 people each year. Marijuana has never killed anyone from an overdose in the history of mankind."
Stroup's assertions are supported by evidence from far and wide. Regarding the ONDCP's so-called public service announcements, the drug czar's online bio proudly claims Walters is responsible for "ads linking drug trafficking with terrorism," as well as those "focusing on the harms of marijuana," although there is no specific mention of how such controversial methods have decreased cannabis use. In fact, the bio only claims that Walters' cannabis tactics "have been credited with helping change youth attitudes and behavior toward drugs," although it doesn't mention how.
Furthermore, the DEA's April 2005 release on the dangers of cannabis -- entitled "Marijuana: The Myths are Killing Us" and penned by top administrator Karen Tandy -- argues first that "America is not suffering from anything that the truth can't cure," before launching into a sloppy critique of medical marijuana that it freely admits "three-fourths of Americans over the age of 45 support." How sloppy, you ask? The first paragraph of the release, which is invested in disseminating (as Tandy argues) the "truth" about cannabis, tells the tale of a 14-year-old Californian who died not from marijuana, but from ecstasy. The weed connection? Her young friends thought they could save her by stuffing cannabis leaves in her mouth.
It gets worse. Tandy goes on to frame the argument in the type of "Myth/Fact" binarism that plays well in medical brochures, but lapses immediately into obfuscation in the first example: — "Myth: Marijuana is Medicine" -- by following it with "Fact: Smoked marijuana is not medicine" (emphasis added). By shifting the spotlight from cannabis to its more popular ingestion system (inhalation by smoking), Tandy erects a guilt-by-association condemnation of marijuana that continues for eight paragraphs. Not exactly hard science.
By the time she gets to a landmark IOM study, conducted in 1999 and funded by none other than the ONDCP, Tandy wanders aimlessly off the reservation, claiming that IOM "researchers who conducted the study could find no medical value to marijuana for virtually any ailment they examined, including the treatment of wasting syndrome in AIDS patients, movement disorders such as Parkinson's disease and epilepsy, or glaucoma," although the IOM's release on the study claims that "Marijuana's active components are potentially effective in treating pain, nausea, the anorexia of AIDS wasting, and other symptoms, and should be tested rigorously in clinical trials."
Further, when the IOM took on the task of affirming the popular myth that marijuana is a so-called "gateway" drug, they were unequivocal in their assessment that "there is no conclusive evidence that marijuana acts as a 'gateway' drug." Tandy, meanwhile, had no room for conclusion and evidence: "Marijuana is a gateway drug," she baldly claimed in the release. Her evidence? "Rarely do we meet heroin or cocaine addicts who did not start their drug use with marijuana."
When asked to comment on the discrepancy, the IOM's media officer Christine Stencel was noncommittal, albeit in a pointed fashion. "I'm sorry, but I cannot offer any theories or explanations for statements made by any other groups or organizations. We stick to stating facts as supported by evidence, not conjecturing about others' interpretations or reasonings."
Fair enough; it's all about the facts with the IOM. So I moved on to the DEA to ask about the inconsistency, and was passed on to Rogene Waite, a DEA public information officer with an AOL email address. Rather than tackle any of my questions head-on, Waite responded by arguing that, "Congress enacted laws against marijuana in 1970 based in part on its conclusion that marijuana has no scientifically proven medical value, which the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed in 2001 in United States v. Oakland Cannabis Buyers' Cooperative." She neglected to mention that her statement was lifted directly from Tandy's press release -- which also appeared in the March 2005 issue of Police Chief magazine.
Further, when asked to explain the U.S. vs. Oakland Cannabis Buyers Cooperative case, or the more recent (and controversial) case of Gonzales vs. Raich (previously known as Ashcroft vs. Raich), Waite broke from her script to explain via email that the "DEA has NEVER [emphasis hers] targeted the sick and dying, but rather, criminals engaged in drug cultivation and trafficking."
But, again, the evidence shows the contrary: Far from being a "drug trafficker" of any sort, Angel Raich is, according to a declaration filed under oath by her doctor, Frank Henry Lucido, a violently ill patient allergic to conventional medicine, one who will "suffer imminent harm without access to cannabis."
Indeed, Lucido claimed, "it could very well be fatal [for Raich] to forego cannabis treatments." To combat her terminal illness, Raich procured cannabis from a series of caregivers, which is legal under California law yet maddeningly illegal under a federal law called the Controlled Substances Act. As a result, the DEA raided her home in 2002 and destroyed all cannabis plants in her possession. If that's not targeting the "sick and dying," I'm sure Raich is still waiting for an explanation for what is.
Invoking the Controlled Substances Act as a basis for their seizure and destruction of Raich's property didn't work well as an excuse when the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals granted Raich and her co-plaintiff Diane Monson a preliminary injunction to prevent the federal government from interfering with her life, arguing along the way that they found "that the appellants have demonstrated a strong likelihood of success on their claim that, as applied to them, the Controlled Substances Act is an unconstitutional exercise of Congress' Commerce Clause authority" (otherwise known as the oft-abused Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution that empowers the Congress "to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes").
"They said, 'Hold on! What we're doing is within California, it's completely non-commercial, we're not selling anything,'" explains Bruce Mirkin, communications director for the Marijuana Policy Project. "'There's no interstate commerce here, so the feds should have no authority. That was a perfectly reasonable common-sense look at the situation." But in the end, that common sense was not so common, and the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that Raich and Monson had indeed violated the Commerce Clause.
"Unfortunately," Stroup explains, "the Supremes made ... a drug exception to the line of recent cases in which they had limited the power of the federal government to legislate, based on the interstate Commerce Clause. Because the subject was marijuana, the court found the federal government could legislate, even when the marijuana had never crossed a state line, and no money had traded hands. What an intellectually embarrassing decision! I knew we were in trouble when I found myself agreeing with the dissenting opinion of Clarence Thomas."
Indeed, although Sandra Day O'Connor put forth the persuasive federalist argument that the Supreme Court's "overreaching stifles an express choice by some States, concerned for the lives and liberties of their people, to regulate medical marijuana differently," it was the much-maligned Thomas who seemed most confused by the decision, explaining that "In the early days of the Republic, it would have been unthinkable that Congress could prohibit the local cultivation, possession, and consumption of marijuana."
He's right: according to Martin Booth's exhaustive book Cannabis: A History, "both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson -- who were landowning farmers -- cultivated hemp as an important cash crop." In fact, Jefferson was known to prefer growing hemp to tobacco.
In other words, the DEA, ONDCP and DOJ can try invoking the U.S. Constitution as proof that Congress has the ability to regulate marijuana cultivation and usage, but that is a case even the Founding Fathers would not make. And though the criminalization of cannabis continues to be marred by labyrinthine legalese and the sloppy condemnations of Tandy, and even though, according to Booth, cannabis has been cultivated since "prehistory, [and] it may have been among the first plants to be farmed" -- the trend toward legalization, and perhaps not just for medical purposes, is a runaway train that cannot be stopped.
"We're seeing an increasing number of organizations from all sides of the political spectrum starting to question these policies," explains Mirkin. "We've had reports just in the last six months or so from the Sentencing Project, which tends to be on the left side of the political spectrum, as well as the American Enterprise Institute and Citizens Against Government Waste, who are much more on the conservative side. But they are all essentially saying the same thing: This doesn't make sense. We're pouring money down a rat hole and very possibly doing more harm than good."
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Posted by: churchofone on Aug 9, 2005 4:04 AM
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» Exporting your War to Canada
Posted by: hiroprotagonist
» Holy crap, I didn't know
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: xporting your War to Canada
Posted by: jakstrate
» READ THE BIBLE !!!
Posted by: nitsua1023
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Posted by: Maria on Aug 9, 2005 4:11 AM
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For a more detailed assessment of current research, this article is excellent.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3561-1565337,00.html
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» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: Gaseyd
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: dsnider
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: cannabis flower
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side STUPID PROPAGANDA
Posted by: AlterNug
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side STUPID PROPAGANDA
Posted by: smidget2k4
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: hover1
» please get your facts right... this is propaganda
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: Lazerai
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Posted by: smarba on Aug 9, 2005 4:49 AM
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Sam Abrams
14607
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» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: trent
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot = TRUE
Posted by: Ullern
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: cry0fan
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Posted by: OldRedleg2 on Aug 9, 2005 5:16 AM
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My personal observations/experiences of heavy THC users gave me the impression that they became a bit paranoid about others, tended to become reclusive, and unfortunately, some decided to graduate to other, more “stimulating” drugs.
Some of the comments regarding the historical cultivation of marijuana are very misleading. Proponents of the legal growing of hemp would probably argue vociferously that hemp, a very useful fibrous plant material, has no real useful THC to continue to have it banned. I believe it continues to be banned mainly because too many people confuse it with marijuana, plus the fact that it resembles the weed so closely that powers-to-be believe they would have too much difficulty separating the two.
We will continue to fail on our war on "nouns" (or have they also been downgraded to "struggles?") as long as we continue to only focus on the effects and symptoms, and nearly completely ignore the causes. We are so used to seeing everything resolved in an hour of television that we are not patient enough to work for the real solutions.
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» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: dsnider
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: gpm
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Iana_g
» No personal comment:
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: gpm
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: kwest10
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Silent_Snake86
» RE: Scientific Study
Posted by: tkd82arty@netscape.net
» RE: Scientific Study
Posted by: cannabis flower
» RE: Scientific Study
Posted by: tkd82arty@netscape.net
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Posted by: gtroyp on Aug 9, 2005 6:13 AM
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There are plenty of orguments against putting another drug into the marketplace, but this is not a drug that is any way out of the marketplace. Marijuana's marketplace is just a little harder to find than 7-11. Now on the other hand, 7-11 has to check ID's and collect taxes which your local dealer will not do. Teenagers will tell you it is easier to get pot than beer, did I mention we were not
protecting" anybody?
It is high time (pardon the pun) that a real fight be made to end the insanity of prohibition (again). Keeping a product illegal that can be grown in a flower pot, in a ditch, or in an untended field is pointless. The United States is the only reason that this drug is illegal anywhere in the world. And, the rest of the world is deciding that even over our objections, and our promises to withhold monies, that it is not worth fighting pot. Our own prisons would have more room if we quit this stupid fight.
Everyone, and I believe every last person, knows that pot is not going to kill, maim, or ruin the life of anyone. We must stop caring if our politicians ever used it, if they argue for it's legalization, or if they toke up on camera. OK, we're a ways a way from that.
The time has come to stop bullshitting about medical marijuana and get right to the point. Marijuana should be legal, in every way, in every state, now. The fight is not to get high legally. The fight is to keep otherwise productive and peaceful people out of jail and the criminal justice system. Not to mention the dollars a monitored marketplace could PROVIDE to the government, instead of bleeding it dry.
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» RE: Come On people
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Come On people
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» Here, here!!
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Here, here!!
Posted by: Iana_g
» AGREE 10000%
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: FCAlive on Aug 9, 2005 6:24 AM
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This is not a logical argument. Nobody ever overdosed on tobacco and very few dies directly from alcohol poisoning.
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» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: gtroyp
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: tke919
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: trent
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: Iana_g
» Just plane stupid
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: Ahimsa
» y´all forgot to mention...
Posted by: brasilaron
» fuck you
Posted by: freetheweed
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Posted by: gtroyp on Aug 9, 2005 6:27 AM
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The Times article
and another with a different take
from a working paper in psychiatry.
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» RE: The times article mentioned
Posted by: projectpeace
» all things in moderation
Posted by: meldada
» Get REAL
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: The times article mentioned
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» this article is an exageration thats meant to misinform... see my reply above
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: this article is an exaggeration that's meant to misinform... see my reply above
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: Iana_g on Aug 9, 2005 6:30 AM
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From the beginning, marijuana was blamed for crime, cultural contamination, loss of good ol' American values and illegal immigration. As long as these issues are combined with marijuana, the same republicans that you call RINOs, along with the extreme religious right, oppose legalization when it comes to a vote.
Meanwhile, the republicans you love to hate (Clarence Thomas is an excellent example) will vote for states' rights and narrower government involvement and will rule against prohibition every time.
So called marijuana activists continue trying to back door legalization by talking about medical marijuana. It is ridiculous when most republicans want the government out of the healthcare industry all together. They should instead try to appeal to the broader issue, such as, why is a PLANT illegal?? Can an honest federalist/republican defend making a plant illegal? Especially when the government has only the flawed opinions driven by the New Deal to justify the drug war?
Is it possible that marijuana users are too afraid of losing a few planks in their overall platform to risk a true drive to free the weed?
If we are serious about legalizing marijuana, then we have to seek out intellectually honest republicans and frame the argument with words they understand; like federalism, self determination, original intent, death to the nanny state, etc...
It is true that one can be a federalist, if not a Randist or objectivist, and still enjoy a daily dose of Mary Jane. I do! And I see the current arguments for and against for what they are: Intellectual dishonesty.
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» Watch your back
Posted by: Michiganman
» Yes, I'm paranoid, open forum
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Finally, An Issue I Can Get Excited About!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Finally, An Issue I Can Get Excited About!
Posted by: smuney
» RE: Finally, An Issue I Can Get Excited About!
Posted by: nietgal
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Posted by: rnagisetty on Aug 9, 2005 6:34 AM
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War is good and an unsuccessful war is better.
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» Sarcasm never hurt anybody
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: projectpeace on Aug 9, 2005 6:42 AM
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» RE: Herbs Are Not Drugs, correction...
Posted by: projectpeace
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Posted by: martinholsinger on Aug 9, 2005 6:45 AM
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I agree with the post above in certain respects--I think our current exploitative, commercial distribution model is ill-suited for cannabis, which I believe requires a certain amount of instruction/initiation for proper use. I would like to see it legalized for personal use and distribution only, not for corporate exploitation.
I believe the psycho-medical objections raised above are best answered by a paradigm change in the way we view the mind in this culture. The current psychological model sees it as a passive organ that is easily disrupted and can only be mediated by administering medications. I think we need to adopt the Eastern model--the mind is like a muscle; it can be strengthened and developed through proper exercize of one's attention.
Meanwhile, keeping it illegal does a great disservice to those who do have difficulties that seem to result from marihuana use. I have observed a great many marihuana users over the last forty years, and I have never met anyone whose life became difficult after they started using marihuana, who did not have obvious psychological indicators. I think that here, too, we need to change the way we look at things . Psychological difficulty is not to be avoided--it is an opportunity for growth, and those whose encounter with their shadow side is lubricated by marihuana use need to be midwifed into their new self, not shut down with antipsychotics.
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» RE: the real reason why marihuana is still illegal
Posted by: projectpeace
» RE: the real reason why marihuana is still illegal
Posted by: JohnTodd
» RE: the real reason why marihuana is still illegal
Posted by: Ahimsa
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Posted by: Twist on Aug 9, 2005 8:15 AM
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Regardless of my purist stance on the constitution, I can understand why the other justices of the Supreme Court see a regulation of the personal growth of cannabis as regulating interstate commerce. If cannabis were legal it would definitely have a vast and far reaching impact on the processed drug and intoxicant industry, not to mention the fiber and paper industry.
Now in a free society you would think that the government wouldn’t simply favor business over people’s rights and personal decisions, but I don't think we live in one of those anymore. In a free society you need a good reason to make something illegal, not simply because you favor one lifestyle over another.
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» RE: It is exceptionally simple
Posted by: cannabis flower
» RE: It is exceptionally simple
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: Hefeweizen on Aug 9, 2005 8:22 AM
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What should be done is that pot should be legal as a medicinal plant and decriminalized for anyone else. In this case the ones that need it for medicinal purposes can get a quality product with their prescription, and the ones who like to use it for personal reasons would not have to go to jail. PLus that way the big corporations like tobacco firms won't be able to genetically modify it, make it more addictive (like they did it with cigarettes) and make money of selling people something that is used more for spiritual purposes rather than just to get a buzz. If you need a buzz, go get a bottle of whiskey or something!
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» RE: American self-centeredness
Posted by: AnarchX
» RE: American self-centeredness
Posted by: hotlipsin61
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Aug 9, 2005 8:41 AM
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Just like Prohibition handed the highly profitable beer/wine/spirits business over to criminals, making them rich and funding their spread, the 'War on Drugs' has been a cash cow for gangs and other criminal elements. What a mess.
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» AGREE 10000%
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: nietgal on Aug 9, 2005 8:47 AM
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So please don't smoke or spit anything, including cannabis. Swallow it, patch it, rub it on you but PLEASE DON"T SMOKE OR SPIT IT. I don't want you to volunteer your medications to the general public.
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Posted by: churchofone on Aug 9, 2005 9:00 AM
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However, Big Pharma and the liquor interests certainly don't want any competition from pot. Might cut into their sales a bit!
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» RE: Grow your own
Posted by: Iana_g
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Posted by: billdake@sbcglobal.net on Aug 9, 2005 9:10 AM
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I doubt that many of our elected officials care much about whether or not we consume marijuana, because the preponderance of evidence shows that it is relatively harmless. The concern is that people who smoke pot tend to be peace loving.
President Nixon wanted to nuke Vietnam and did not, because the anti-war activists had stirred up the populace and the war was becoming more unpopular daily. People were watching the war on TV and asking, why are we there, is it really worth all the lost lives or the misery of disabled Vietnam veterans? Nixon claimed that Marijuana was the drug of choice for these peaceniks. It was Nixon who wanted the War on Drugs and who threw the Presidential Commissions Report on Cannabis in the wastebasket, because he did not like their conclusions. The thirteen scientists found Marijuana to be the least harmful of intoxicating substances and that it seemed to be beneficial for many human ailment and the biggest harm was caused by the laws that punished users. Without Cannabis the War on Drugs is meaningless, because 20% of Americans consume pot and 4% would account for all the rest of the drugs put together and with pot out of the picture there is no reason for the War on Drugs. They called it the Gate Way Drug, to color it bad and there is some truth to that, because it is illegal and categorized as a useless drug in the company of all the others. People (kids) who have found out by experiment that pot is harmless, may try other drugs. This gate would not be open if not for prohibition, because pot is no more a gateway than mother’s milk (or even a bottle). It could be argued that Milk is a gateway, because it is the first food and all food comes after.
Arguably it could be said that pot saved us from an Atomic war and that if pot were the intoxicant of choice for the American people we would never go to war and perhaps if the world were to follow, we would evolve beyond war. Actually the evidence shows that if it were decriminalized, there would be less consumption, but the influence should be there especially if decriminalized worldwide. Unfortunately our industrial military complex is the power that rules and the hawks just say no to pot.
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 9, 2005 9:11 AM
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Has anybody checked out the average alcohol consumption rate of Congress lately? Our president seems to be slurring his words more than in years past; is anybody watching him, like they are watching the sick and dying who use medical marijuana to ease their suffering? Have over-the-counter medications (or constrictive robes) dulled the senses of Supreme Court justices? After all, they seem incapable of understanding even plainly-written sections of our Constitution. In other words, who's watching the watchers?
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Posted by: canuck on Aug 9, 2005 9:11 AM
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Currently, your government is asking my country - Canada - to extradite Marc Emery, a famous pot activist, because he sold pot seeds that went across the border. While this is a crime in both counties, Canada has not enforced this law in 20 years. I'm sure that my government will do the right thing and refuse, but it still makes me worry about how far your government will go in its efforts to win the war.
All i can say is that if you guys truely want to end the war then DEMAND CHANGE. That was all it took to get the ball rollin up here in Canada
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» RE: DEMAND CHANGE, if only
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 9, 2005 9:15 AM
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5,000 years of written Human History. Some cultures use it from the cradel to the grave. The recent findings of 'Cannabis
Psychosis' is itself suspect. Owning to the fact that the very
symptomatology of the disease is also that of over exposure to mercury.The very stuff that's been raining down on us from coal burning for the last 175 years. Now factor in coal's
slimy cousin oil,burning also for more than 100 years. As the mercury contant risen over time, so did the amount we absorbed and the rates of neurological,circulatory,mental and
physical problem from fetal development,all through life. If
they ever owned up to the truth, the Class Action lawsuits that would result,would not only be right,but, would stunt the
government and squash industry. That's why they passed laws in 1933 to keep farm based multi-use produsts off the
market in favor of the ill-concieved abundance of a filthy
fuel.Now take into consideration that Hemp seed are second to soy in protien content,#1 in ALL 11 essential amino acids
our Human bodies need,and #1 in linoleiac and lenolitic
essential amino acids that REBUILD the Human IMMUNE SYSTEM. Healthy body,strong immune systems mean you
won't see the doctor much. The Women's Temperance League
got Judges to order drunken abusive men onto 'Hashish Therapy'. why? Stoner households have greatly reduced 'domestic violence' than drinker households.Potheads
are pacifists.in a war society like ours,Stoners are an anathma
to the ruling class's design.Hemp CAN give us cleaner air,
better clothes,paper, fuel and healthful foods. It's up to US to give it to ourselves. We are the Power,it's time to BE the Power.
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» RE: Cannabis the Law and Us
Posted by: bambic
» RE: Cannabis the Law and Us
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» AGREE 10000%
Posted by: Michiganman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bambic on Aug 9, 2005 9:29 AM
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Because I was using marijuana for the relief of pain in my back caused by two herniated discs, I must now take Hydrocodone, an addictive, lethal-if-you-overdose drug.
And who is reaping the financial benefits?
The pharmaceutical companies. When I am randomly drug tested, they'd rather find opiates in my urine than THC.
Just a thought...
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» NOT A SON OF A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN
Posted by: trutex
» PITIFULL, I'm With You
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Bambic
Posted by: gonzoskismet
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Posted by: Ahimsa on Aug 9, 2005 10:07 AM
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» BEEN DONE, Europe
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Is there something we can do?
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: mt on Aug 9, 2005 10:08 AM
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Past Month Past Year Lifetime
Grade 2002 2003 2002 2003 2002 2003
8th grade 8.3 7.5 14.6 12.8 19.2 17.5
10th grade 17.8 17.0 30.3 28.2 38.7 36.4
12th grade 21.5 21.2 36.2 34.9 47.8 46.1
taken from www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov
Ok. Even the White House knows we aren't winning. 46%? What if every one of them was busted their first time? 46% of our youth would be in jail.
This law cannot be upheld any more. To do so is rediculous. Legalization is the only way. Take the dealer out of the picture. Have the youngster get carded. I don't know about anyone else, but in high school marijuana was very attainable more so than alcohol. Alcohol was really hard to get. It almost always involved a "cool parent" or family member to get alcohol.
This law should upset every parent. Whether you like it or not, your son or daughter has a 1 in 2 chance of trying marijuana. What if they were put in jail for that? Rape still happens in "juvie." I hear horror stories about it.
Your 12 or 13 year old could be around a 17 year old violent offender.
The only things wrong with cannabis are the laws!
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Posted by: harpy on Aug 9, 2005 12:01 PM
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Another point, look at who benefits by keeping marijuana illegal. Drug companies and liquor companies. They put a lot of money into lawmakers' pockets to make sure they have no competition.
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» RE: Prison is BIG business
Posted by: mrsmagoo
» Corruption is the business of the US
Posted by: herb
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Posted by: taiwanjohn on Aug 9, 2005 12:07 PM
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There's also a rather longer treatment of all "consensual crimes" in general, which can be read online for free. It's called Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do by Peter McWilliams.
Good stuff!
--jrd
PS: Hmm... I can't get that last link to end... the system is not recognizing the </a> tag... Whatever...
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» RE: ecommended reading...
Posted by: Iana_g
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Posted by: JoeEbola on Aug 9, 2005 12:14 PM
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» Rod from Canada
Posted by: Rod from Canada
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Posted by: its the economy, stupid! on Aug 9, 2005 2:34 PM
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well at least make sure that your not high while Iran is getting nuked to high heaven, that'll be shameful, but if you actually plan on taking your one life seriously and are thinking about shaping some history for the future of mankind, get down with the larouche youth movment, www.wlym.com, if call me personally 702 279 7719, ask for george rogers, not soros.
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» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: rococohobo
» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: pjrsullivan on Aug 9, 2005 2:54 PM
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Squeeze them until their eyes pop out is the mantra of the murdering rich.
From the time of the Romans, any law that did not follow its stated intent, was declared a fraud and was non-enforcable.
Our drug laws, like our criminal class that created them, are frauds.
Our nuclear war criminal class has attempted to launch nuclear missiles on us, and they are still trying to do this. They, the murdering rich, and their phony drugs laws and prison camp society are going.
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» WTF Alert
Posted by: nickptar
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Posted by: Michiganman on Aug 9, 2005 6:01 PM
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» Jesus say's, exodus 30:22-24
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: Jesus say's, exodus 30:22-24
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: john henry on Aug 9, 2005 6:35 PM
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» RE: the good times are gone
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: the good times are gone
Posted by: nitsua1023
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Posted by: nitsua1023 on Aug 9, 2005 6:52 PM
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» ALL DRUGS COME FROM PLANTS, from God
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: ALL DRUGS COME FROM PLANTS, from God
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: harvestmeister on Aug 9, 2005 7:44 PM
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First off, if marijuana is ever legalized for medical use, you can totally forget about it being legalized for recreational use. No prescription drug is currently approved for recreational use and probably never will be. If there is one I'm not familiar with, I look forward to being corrected. (Don't bother listing alcohol, I've never heard of anyone being prescribed Budweiser or Jack Daniels).
Secondly, the way the American public has been exposed to the potential of medical marijuana, via CNN and frequent video of "cannabis clubs" in California, with the bead-dangling, tie-dye shirt wearing hippie chicks serving up bowls of buds to "sick people", who for all intents and purposes look pretty healthy on TV; or the recent images shown to America after the recent Supreme Court ruling, where "patients" are shown picking and choosing their "variety" of medicine from a counter while other "patients" sit at tables with drinks in a "club" to partake of their "medicine" has totally soured the American vision of medical marijuana (I'm talking about the other 49 states).
Since when do people pick up their prescriptions and take their medicine in a communal setting with others? I've never heard of or seen a "valium club" or a "penicillin club" or any other prescription drug "club".
If, when the topic of medical marijuana was first approached, the images shown to America were of patients approaching a pharmaceutical window, turning in their prescription to the pharmacist, receiving a sealed bottle or package of their medicine, putting it in their pocket, taking the medicine home, and medicating themselves in the privacy of their home, I truly believe that there would be legal, federally endorsed, medical marijuana today.
Instead, they made it look like a bunch of people partying in a nightclub.
However, since I for one would much prefer to see legalization for recreational use, in hindsight, I'm kind of glad they did approach it in this way. For I am pretty sure that as long as that is the image being presented to the American public about marijuana as medicine, I have no worries about it ever being legalized for medical use.
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» As if...
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: As if...
Posted by: harvestmeister
» RE: As if...
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: As if...
Posted by: harvestmeister
» RE: As if...
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: As if...
Posted by: harvestmeister
» RE: As if...
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: drich on Aug 9, 2005 8:13 PM
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» RE: Hemp is not marijuana
Posted by: heatherj
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Posted by: Michiganman on Aug 9, 2005 8:43 PM
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» RE: Censorship..BAD from Bambic
Posted by: bambic
» RE: Censorship..BAD
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Censorship..BAD
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» Hey Michiganman...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» In solidarity with Michiganman...
Posted by: herb
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Posted by: uptownkid on Aug 10, 2005 9:16 AM
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On the issue of psychosis, puerperal psychosis affects 1-3% of all new mothers according to About.com (http://womensissues.about.com/library/blwyntkppp.htm) -- No marijuana mentioned there.
I wonder how much people suffer from psychosis? And out of the total, what's the percentage that use marijuana. If it's substantially less than 50% which i think it is... then you can't really blame marijuana. Maybe so much people use marijuana that it's likely you'll find people with psychosis or who's predisposed to having the condition who's using the herb. It's the same with buying and selling marijuana. So much people sells it that it's likely terrorists are selling it as well. Dosen't mean every purchase is lining bin laden's pocket! Maybe just a coincidence and not as the gov. would like you to believe in an effort to support their cause.
Drugs in this country is precieved in a weird way. Prescription Drugs bought from "drug" stores are 1000% more dangerous. Our current president is a former coke-head who obviously was still capable of making something of himself - "President"
GEORGE W. BUSH and every president before him has sent teenagers/KIDS/ADOLESCENTS to JAIL and PRISON for smoking a herb that, at it's worst, causes "personal" bodily harm that's less severe than other legal substance. YOUR KIDS are subjected to humiliating searches, stabbings, assault and bullying by both other inmates and corrections officers. SENDING KIDS to jail over marijuana smoking should be considered a CRIMINAL ACT. I rather get cancer of the BODY and die a happy, free man than to be put away in a cage like an animal for smoking weed. I've seen knives in jail made from all sorts of items, including "real" rambo-type knives stuffed in inmates butts that's waiting to puncture someone's body.
Do you want to subject your kids to that kind of condition? for what? lol silly nation... smoke more weed! Wisen up... Obesity is resposnible for over 300,000 deaths a year. FOOD is worst than weed in terms of fatalities. OH YEAH!... think there isn't drugs in JAIL? Think again... Prison is a University for Crime -- Not a place for teenagers who's only offence is marijuana possession.
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Posted by: Stephen Lint on Aug 10, 2005 10:08 AM
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http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/jewell.htm
"This is your brain on Marijuana". What is NOT being explained is the TRUE effects of marijuana on the human brainwave patterns. What we see being displayed in that commercial are ALPHA waves. According to ALL reputable studies from the likes of Cornell University and many many more, marijuana does lower the Alpha pattern BUT it throws the brain back into BETA where it performs its BEST thinking and in depth examination. It allows for deeper scrutiny. It is proven by university research to be beneficial to the body and to move the brain from an Alpha brainwave patter to its proper Beta brainwave pattern. Is this the reason what has been labeled by leading university research, as being the safest and most beneficial drug on earth has been deemed illegal?
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Posted by: doneman2000 on Aug 10, 2005 11:06 AM
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» RE: One Reason The Right Hates Pot
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: nearnorth on Aug 10, 2005 12:51 PM
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Except that the gun has about a million chambers and still only one bullet.
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Posted by: kamala on Aug 10, 2005 3:07 PM
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And many people on serious mind altering prescription drugs that treat depression and anxiety could probably benefit from a simple joint, what would that do for the drug companies bottom line? I think cannibis is one of gods greatest gifts to us. It is pure hippocracy, propaganda, imperialist control and capitalist greed that keeps this herb restricted.
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Posted by: kamala on Aug 10, 2005 3:17 PM
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Posted by: heatherj on Aug 10, 2005 5:15 PM
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1. The pharmaceutical industry--obvious reasons
2. The paper industry--hemp is a renewable resource that makes paper as good as or better than trees.
3. The lumber industry--hemp fiber can be made into building products, such as particle board, also
4. The cotton industry--obvious reasons
5. The synthetic (petroleum-based) fabrics industry, as hemp makes better fabric than some of the synthetics & hemp oil can be used to make plastics and synthetic fabrics. In fact, one of the prime movers behind the campaign to illegalize pot, back in the 1930's was E. I. duPont, who didn't want hemp, for which better processing methods had just been invented, to cut into his nylon business. The other big mover was William Randolph Hearst, who used his newspapers in the campaign to ban pot, because he didn't want cheaper hemp paper cutting into his lumber interests.
6. The oil industry. Lots of good fuel can be made from hemp oil.
7. Here's the big one--THE GOVERNMENT. Another big reason pot was banned was that all those federal agents that were enforcing prohibition needed a new job when it was repealed. Now, we can't have all those unemployed cops and DEA agents, can we? As well as no longer having good reason for much government intrusion into the lives of Americans.
8. The prison industry. Many prisons are privately run, AND provide basically slave labor for major corporations.
9. The alcohol and cigarette industry probably would lose money, as would organized crime, but I think it would probably be minor. It's been my experience that most heavy drinkers are not people who would be all that interested in pot, and I expect organized crime makes a lot more money with the more expensive drugs.
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» and
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: gltirebiter on Aug 10, 2005 6:14 PM
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this is a political and social purge, make no mistake. the drug warriors are no more interested in the health of the people than the man in the moon. what they are interested in is creating a criminal class that cannot vote and a superstructure that requires huge amounts of tax dollars to support courts, cops, prison builders, prison guards (and their unions), probation officers, etc ad nauseum. this is all about the destruction of personal freedom and responsibility and the suppression of true american values.
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» RE: it makes perfect sense
Posted by: heatherj
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Posted by: dee.halz on Aug 11, 2005 5:30 AM
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Having been through cancer treatment, I KNOW how expensive the drugs for chemo-induced nausea are. In my case, if insurance hadn't covered it, it would have been $50 to $100 per pill! It is not just morally reprehensible that medical marijuana is being fought--it is criminally abusive. Because the drug companies cannot patent a plant (yet--give Monsanto time to genetically modify it), people are forbidden to grow it so they could have access to a much more affordable medicine.
More and more people in this country can't afford health care, but government does nothing about that because the insurance industry is so effective at opposing reforms. More and more people can't afford necessary medications because Big Pharma opposes reforms.
It's about time this country returned to government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Dee
Lowell, MA
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» Watch DEAWatch
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: Ambioric on Aug 11, 2005 4:04 PM
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If someone has underlying schizophrenic tendencies they should be cautious. Because of my experience I often question other smokers I know and only ever heard of 2 other people around here experiencing something similar. Take this all with a grain of salt however, stories I've heard of bad acid trips are as bad or worse (ergot poisoning not a pleasant way to go).
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» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Mycos
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Bearzerker
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: smidget2k4
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Bearzerker
» RE: I'm guessing I've experienced what you mention
Posted by: Mycos
» RE: I'm guessing I've experienced what you mention
Posted by: Bearzerker
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Posted by: Lauren on Aug 11, 2005 8:15 PM
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One thing I realised with this exceptional and very pleasurable, but ego destroying, experience was that it seemed very simular to the historical accounts of experiences of most of the major religious leaders. Zorastor, Jesus, Mohamaded, Budda, ect. I strongly believe Jesus was a pothead.
Imagine the total distruction of the religious right's arguments when confronted with a society of peaceful communers with god and nature. There goes the wiki wiki consumer economy.
You dont have to imagine their reaction, just read the history of Native American religions. To us the pipe is sacred, as are the various sacred plants we smoke in it. The smoke carries our prayers to the four winds, to the great spirit (Allah).
God can be a drug experience, one that opens one's mind to greater perceptions. But then, I am a lifetime religious thinker, reader, ect. It doesn't work for everyone.
I would encourage everyone to read about Native American religion. It is very accessable and nurturing. Look in the history section at Borders Books, you wont find us included in the religion section. Religious predjudice against Native Americans is alive and very strong in America. It fuels the drug war.
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» RE: Lauren
Posted by: Lazerai
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Posted by: Mycos on Aug 11, 2005 9:42 PM
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In light of the recent arrest and extradition request of Marc Emery for the heinous crime of selling marijuana seeds to US citizens, I have petitioned our government to ask US authorities to arrest and extradite American gun-dealers who sell weapons to persons they know to be Canadian or be Canadian resellers. After all, isn't it all about protecting our own citizens from the hands of those foreign devils who's actions wreak death and destruction on our soil? Or do you suppose that our respective government officials will say that this kind of an action against the US would be out of proportion?
I surely hope that no such person exists anywhere within our government. If they do, they should be immediately stripped of any power or authority they may have over those of us who remain rational....in the U.S. I believe you refer to us as "the reality crowd". Heh! IMO, "out of proportion" doesn't begin to even hint at the reality of your governments actions on Emery, the War on Drugs, War on Terror, etc, etc, etc. ad nauseum. I'm reminded of the London Daily Newspaper headline which expressed the rest of the worlds profound sense of utter confusion and amazement when Bush was re-elected. "How Can 56 million People Be So Stupid?!!" Indeed.
And while we're here, doesn't US law strictly forbid the DEA to engage in the deliberate obstruction or sabotage of the electoral process? If so, then why isn't Karen Tandy being taken to task for her statement to Seattle journo Joel Conelly regarding her attempt at obstructing those American voter campaigns that advocate marijuana-law reform? That's democracy isn't it?
Mycos
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» Will someone please tell me...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Will someone please tell me...
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: mr ogre on Aug 12, 2005 11:42 AM
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Posted by: KevinOwen@rehabilitatenz.co.nz on Aug 12, 2005 9:11 PM
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see full article
linked text
Report and recommendations on
methadone and other disastrous psychiatric
drug 'rehabilitation' programs
Drug addiction is not a disease. Real solutions do exist.
Clearing away psychiatry’s false information about drugs and addiction is not only a fundamental
part of restoring hope; it is the first step towards achieving real drug rehabilitation.
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» RE: rehab Fraud Scientology's Drug Sham
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: jducote on Aug 14, 2005 4:39 PM
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» Need an answer?
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: duluth1941 on Aug 15, 2005 7:37 PM
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» RE: Pot, Weed, Marijuana, Mary Jane et all
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: KJSIA42 on Aug 30, 2005 9:26 AM
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Posted by: acaryatid on Sep 26, 2005 6:08 AM
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Safety has nothing to do with American policy on drugs or anything else. American policies all center on protecting the turf of the Russell Trust members. It's about the money, money for the families of the Russell Trust Corporation.
The RTC was initially formed as a cartel by the opium dealing families of Forbes and Russell in the 1800's. They've executed a flawless business plan over the last 135 years and now control the country. How else can you explain a guy like Dubbya as "leader" of the world's greatest superpower.
Today there are about 700 members who's business interest include oil, drugs, alcohol and tobacco. In 1934 they too control of the money supply and made the FED a private enterprise. The growing national debt isn't really to China it's to their banking interests which have been moved under claims of global trade improving our economy.
Are Americans feeling better off from the expansion into foreign markets? Until Americans wake up and see this as the organized crime operation they are we will continue to have corporate killing, treasury looting and a handful of beneficiaries robbing us of our freedom and destroying the planet for our children.
Americans may think of themselves as divided by political parties but the fact is the 1% who benefits is the Russell Trust and the 99% are the rest of us.
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Posted by: churchofone on Aug 9, 2005 4:04 AM
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» Exporting your War to Canada
Posted by: hiroprotagonist
» Holy crap, I didn't know
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: xporting your War to Canada
Posted by: jakstrate
» READ THE BIBLE !!!
Posted by: nitsua1023
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Posted by: Maria on Aug 9, 2005 4:11 AM
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For a more detailed assessment of current research, this article is excellent.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3561-1565337,00.html
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» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: Gaseyd
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: dsnider
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: cannabis flower
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side STUPID PROPAGANDA
Posted by: AlterNug
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side STUPID PROPAGANDA
Posted by: smidget2k4
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: hover1
» please get your facts right... this is propaganda
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: Cannabis from the dark side
Posted by: Lazerai
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Posted by: smarba on Aug 9, 2005 4:49 AM
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Sam Abrams
14607
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» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: trent
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot = TRUE
Posted by: Ullern
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Why power-junkies (right or left) hate pot
Posted by: cry0fan
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Posted by: OldRedleg2 on Aug 9, 2005 5:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My personal observations/experiences of heavy THC users gave me the impression that they became a bit paranoid about others, tended to become reclusive, and unfortunately, some decided to graduate to other, more “stimulating” drugs.
Some of the comments regarding the historical cultivation of marijuana are very misleading. Proponents of the legal growing of hemp would probably argue vociferously that hemp, a very useful fibrous plant material, has no real useful THC to continue to have it banned. I believe it continues to be banned mainly because too many people confuse it with marijuana, plus the fact that it resembles the weed so closely that powers-to-be believe they would have too much difficulty separating the two.
We will continue to fail on our war on "nouns" (or have they also been downgraded to "struggles?") as long as we continue to only focus on the effects and symptoms, and nearly completely ignore the causes. We are so used to seeing everything resolved in an hour of television that we are not patient enough to work for the real solutions.
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» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: dsnider
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Kelly
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: cry0fan
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: gpm
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: OldRedleg2
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Iana_g
» No personal comment:
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: gpm
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: kwest10
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Some personal comments:
Posted by: Silent_Snake86
» RE: Scientific Study
Posted by: tkd82arty@netscape.net
» RE: Scientific Study
Posted by: cannabis flower
» RE: Scientific Study
Posted by: tkd82arty@netscape.net
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gtroyp on Aug 9, 2005 6:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are plenty of orguments against putting another drug into the marketplace, but this is not a drug that is any way out of the marketplace. Marijuana's marketplace is just a little harder to find than 7-11. Now on the other hand, 7-11 has to check ID's and collect taxes which your local dealer will not do. Teenagers will tell you it is easier to get pot than beer, did I mention we were not
protecting" anybody?
It is high time (pardon the pun) that a real fight be made to end the insanity of prohibition (again). Keeping a product illegal that can be grown in a flower pot, in a ditch, or in an untended field is pointless. The United States is the only reason that this drug is illegal anywhere in the world. And, the rest of the world is deciding that even over our objections, and our promises to withhold monies, that it is not worth fighting pot. Our own prisons would have more room if we quit this stupid fight.
Everyone, and I believe every last person, knows that pot is not going to kill, maim, or ruin the life of anyone. We must stop caring if our politicians ever used it, if they argue for it's legalization, or if they toke up on camera. OK, we're a ways a way from that.
The time has come to stop bullshitting about medical marijuana and get right to the point. Marijuana should be legal, in every way, in every state, now. The fight is not to get high legally. The fight is to keep otherwise productive and peaceful people out of jail and the criminal justice system. Not to mention the dollars a monitored marketplace could PROVIDE to the government, instead of bleeding it dry.
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» RE: Come On people
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Come On people
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» Here, here!!
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Here, here!!
Posted by: Iana_g
» AGREE 10000%
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: FCAlive on Aug 9, 2005 6:24 AM
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This is not a logical argument. Nobody ever overdosed on tobacco and very few dies directly from alcohol poisoning.
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» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: gtroyp
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: Iana_g
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: tke919
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: trent
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: Iana_g
» Just plane stupid
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Make better arguements
Posted by: Ahimsa
» y´all forgot to mention...
Posted by: brasilaron
» fuck you
Posted by: freetheweed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gtroyp on Aug 9, 2005 6:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Times article
and another with a different take
from a working paper in psychiatry.
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» RE: The times article mentioned
Posted by: projectpeace
» all things in moderation
Posted by: meldada
» Get REAL
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: The times article mentioned
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» this article is an exageration thats meant to misinform... see my reply above
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: this article is an exaggeration that's meant to misinform... see my reply above
Posted by: Mycos
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Iana_g on Aug 9, 2005 6:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the beginning, marijuana was blamed for crime, cultural contamination, loss of good ol' American values and illegal immigration. As long as these issues are combined with marijuana, the same republicans that you call RINOs, along with the extreme religious right, oppose legalization when it comes to a vote.
Meanwhile, the republicans you love to hate (Clarence Thomas is an excellent example) will vote for states' rights and narrower government involvement and will rule against prohibition every time.
So called marijuana activists continue trying to back door legalization by talking about medical marijuana. It is ridiculous when most republicans want the government out of the healthcare industry all together. They should instead try to appeal to the broader issue, such as, why is a PLANT illegal?? Can an honest federalist/republican defend making a plant illegal? Especially when the government has only the flawed opinions driven by the New Deal to justify the drug war?
Is it possible that marijuana users are too afraid of losing a few planks in their overall platform to risk a true drive to free the weed?
If we are serious about legalizing marijuana, then we have to seek out intellectually honest republicans and frame the argument with words they understand; like federalism, self determination, original intent, death to the nanny state, etc...
It is true that one can be a federalist, if not a Randist or objectivist, and still enjoy a daily dose of Mary Jane. I do! And I see the current arguments for and against for what they are: Intellectual dishonesty.
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» Watch your back
Posted by: Michiganman
» Yes, I'm paranoid, open forum
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Finally, An Issue I Can Get Excited About!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Finally, An Issue I Can Get Excited About!
Posted by: smuney
» RE: Finally, An Issue I Can Get Excited About!
Posted by: nietgal
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Posted by: rnagisetty on Aug 9, 2005 6:34 AM
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War is good and an unsuccessful war is better.
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» Sarcasm never hurt anybody
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: projectpeace on Aug 9, 2005 6:42 AM
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» RE: Herbs Are Not Drugs, correction...
Posted by: projectpeace
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Posted by: martinholsinger on Aug 9, 2005 6:45 AM
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I agree with the post above in certain respects--I think our current exploitative, commercial distribution model is ill-suited for cannabis, which I believe requires a certain amount of instruction/initiation for proper use. I would like to see it legalized for personal use and distribution only, not for corporate exploitation.
I believe the psycho-medical objections raised above are best answered by a paradigm change in the way we view the mind in this culture. The current psychological model sees it as a passive organ that is easily disrupted and can only be mediated by administering medications. I think we need to adopt the Eastern model--the mind is like a muscle; it can be strengthened and developed through proper exercize of one's attention.
Meanwhile, keeping it illegal does a great disservice to those who do have difficulties that seem to result from marihuana use. I have observed a great many marihuana users over the last forty years, and I have never met anyone whose life became difficult after they started using marihuana, who did not have obvious psychological indicators. I think that here, too, we need to change the way we look at things . Psychological difficulty is not to be avoided--it is an opportunity for growth, and those whose encounter with their shadow side is lubricated by marihuana use need to be midwifed into their new self, not shut down with antipsychotics.
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» RE: the real reason why marihuana is still illegal
Posted by: projectpeace
» RE: the real reason why marihuana is still illegal
Posted by: JohnTodd
» RE: the real reason why marihuana is still illegal
Posted by: Ahimsa
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Twist on Aug 9, 2005 8:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regardless of my purist stance on the constitution, I can understand why the other justices of the Supreme Court see a regulation of the personal growth of cannabis as regulating interstate commerce. If cannabis were legal it would definitely have a vast and far reaching impact on the processed drug and intoxicant industry, not to mention the fiber and paper industry.
Now in a free society you would think that the government wouldn’t simply favor business over people’s rights and personal decisions, but I don't think we live in one of those anymore. In a free society you need a good reason to make something illegal, not simply because you favor one lifestyle over another.
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» RE: It is exceptionally simple
Posted by: cannabis flower
» RE: It is exceptionally simple
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: Hefeweizen on Aug 9, 2005 8:22 AM
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What should be done is that pot should be legal as a medicinal plant and decriminalized for anyone else. In this case the ones that need it for medicinal purposes can get a quality product with their prescription, and the ones who like to use it for personal reasons would not have to go to jail. PLus that way the big corporations like tobacco firms won't be able to genetically modify it, make it more addictive (like they did it with cigarettes) and make money of selling people something that is used more for spiritual purposes rather than just to get a buzz. If you need a buzz, go get a bottle of whiskey or something!
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» RE: American self-centeredness
Posted by: AnarchX
» RE: American self-centeredness
Posted by: hotlipsin61
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Aug 9, 2005 8:41 AM
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Just like Prohibition handed the highly profitable beer/wine/spirits business over to criminals, making them rich and funding their spread, the 'War on Drugs' has been a cash cow for gangs and other criminal elements. What a mess.
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» AGREE 10000%
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: nietgal on Aug 9, 2005 8:47 AM
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So please don't smoke or spit anything, including cannabis. Swallow it, patch it, rub it on you but PLEASE DON"T SMOKE OR SPIT IT. I don't want you to volunteer your medications to the general public.
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Posted by: churchofone on Aug 9, 2005 9:00 AM
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However, Big Pharma and the liquor interests certainly don't want any competition from pot. Might cut into their sales a bit!
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» RE: Grow your own
Posted by: Iana_g
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Posted by: billdake@sbcglobal.net on Aug 9, 2005 9:10 AM
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I doubt that many of our elected officials care much about whether or not we consume marijuana, because the preponderance of evidence shows that it is relatively harmless. The concern is that people who smoke pot tend to be peace loving.
President Nixon wanted to nuke Vietnam and did not, because the anti-war activists had stirred up the populace and the war was becoming more unpopular daily. People were watching the war on TV and asking, why are we there, is it really worth all the lost lives or the misery of disabled Vietnam veterans? Nixon claimed that Marijuana was the drug of choice for these peaceniks. It was Nixon who wanted the War on Drugs and who threw the Presidential Commissions Report on Cannabis in the wastebasket, because he did not like their conclusions. The thirteen scientists found Marijuana to be the least harmful of intoxicating substances and that it seemed to be beneficial for many human ailment and the biggest harm was caused by the laws that punished users. Without Cannabis the War on Drugs is meaningless, because 20% of Americans consume pot and 4% would account for all the rest of the drugs put together and with pot out of the picture there is no reason for the War on Drugs. They called it the Gate Way Drug, to color it bad and there is some truth to that, because it is illegal and categorized as a useless drug in the company of all the others. People (kids) who have found out by experiment that pot is harmless, may try other drugs. This gate would not be open if not for prohibition, because pot is no more a gateway than mother’s milk (or even a bottle). It could be argued that Milk is a gateway, because it is the first food and all food comes after.
Arguably it could be said that pot saved us from an Atomic war and that if pot were the intoxicant of choice for the American people we would never go to war and perhaps if the world were to follow, we would evolve beyond war. Actually the evidence shows that if it were decriminalized, there would be less consumption, but the influence should be there especially if decriminalized worldwide. Unfortunately our industrial military complex is the power that rules and the hawks just say no to pot.
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 9, 2005 9:11 AM
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Has anybody checked out the average alcohol consumption rate of Congress lately? Our president seems to be slurring his words more than in years past; is anybody watching him, like they are watching the sick and dying who use medical marijuana to ease their suffering? Have over-the-counter medications (or constrictive robes) dulled the senses of Supreme Court justices? After all, they seem incapable of understanding even plainly-written sections of our Constitution. In other words, who's watching the watchers?
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Posted by: canuck on Aug 9, 2005 9:11 AM
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Currently, your government is asking my country - Canada - to extradite Marc Emery, a famous pot activist, because he sold pot seeds that went across the border. While this is a crime in both counties, Canada has not enforced this law in 20 years. I'm sure that my government will do the right thing and refuse, but it still makes me worry about how far your government will go in its efforts to win the war.
All i can say is that if you guys truely want to end the war then DEMAND CHANGE. That was all it took to get the ball rollin up here in Canada
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» RE: DEMAND CHANGE, if only
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 9, 2005 9:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
5,000 years of written Human History. Some cultures use it from the cradel to the grave. The recent findings of 'Cannabis
Psychosis' is itself suspect. Owning to the fact that the very
symptomatology of the disease is also that of over exposure to mercury.The very stuff that's been raining down on us from coal burning for the last 175 years. Now factor in coal's
slimy cousin oil,burning also for more than 100 years. As the mercury contant risen over time, so did the amount we absorbed and the rates of neurological,circulatory,mental and
physical problem from fetal development,all through life. If
they ever owned up to the truth, the Class Action lawsuits that would result,would not only be right,but, would stunt the
government and squash industry. That's why they passed laws in 1933 to keep farm based multi-use produsts off the
market in favor of the ill-concieved abundance of a filthy
fuel.Now take into consideration that Hemp seed are second to soy in protien content,#1 in ALL 11 essential amino acids
our Human bodies need,and #1 in linoleiac and lenolitic
essential amino acids that REBUILD the Human IMMUNE SYSTEM. Healthy body,strong immune systems mean you
won't see the doctor much. The Women's Temperance League
got Judges to order drunken abusive men onto 'Hashish Therapy'. why? Stoner households have greatly reduced 'domestic violence' than drinker households.Potheads
are pacifists.in a war society like ours,Stoners are an anathma
to the ruling class's design.Hemp CAN give us cleaner air,
better clothes,paper, fuel and healthful foods. It's up to US to give it to ourselves. We are the Power,it's time to BE the Power.
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» RE: Cannabis the Law and Us
Posted by: bambic
» RE: Cannabis the Law and Us
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» AGREE 10000%
Posted by: Michiganman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bambic on Aug 9, 2005 9:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because I was using marijuana for the relief of pain in my back caused by two herniated discs, I must now take Hydrocodone, an addictive, lethal-if-you-overdose drug.
And who is reaping the financial benefits?
The pharmaceutical companies. When I am randomly drug tested, they'd rather find opiates in my urine than THC.
Just a thought...
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» NOT A SON OF A REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN
Posted by: trutex
» PITIFULL, I'm With You
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Bambic
Posted by: gonzoskismet
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ahimsa on Aug 9, 2005 10:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» BEEN DONE, Europe
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: Is there something we can do?
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: mt on Aug 9, 2005 10:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Past Month Past Year Lifetime
Grade 2002 2003 2002 2003 2002 2003
8th grade 8.3 7.5 14.6 12.8 19.2 17.5
10th grade 17.8 17.0 30.3 28.2 38.7 36.4
12th grade 21.5 21.2 36.2 34.9 47.8 46.1
taken from www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov
Ok. Even the White House knows we aren't winning. 46%? What if every one of them was busted their first time? 46% of our youth would be in jail.
This law cannot be upheld any more. To do so is rediculous. Legalization is the only way. Take the dealer out of the picture. Have the youngster get carded. I don't know about anyone else, but in high school marijuana was very attainable more so than alcohol. Alcohol was really hard to get. It almost always involved a "cool parent" or family member to get alcohol.
This law should upset every parent. Whether you like it or not, your son or daughter has a 1 in 2 chance of trying marijuana. What if they were put in jail for that? Rape still happens in "juvie." I hear horror stories about it.
Your 12 or 13 year old could be around a 17 year old violent offender.
The only things wrong with cannabis are the laws!
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Posted by: harpy on Aug 9, 2005 12:01 PM
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Another point, look at who benefits by keeping marijuana illegal. Drug companies and liquor companies. They put a lot of money into lawmakers' pockets to make sure they have no competition.
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» RE: Prison is BIG business
Posted by: mrsmagoo
» Corruption is the business of the US
Posted by: herb
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Posted by: taiwanjohn on Aug 9, 2005 12:07 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's also a rather longer treatment of all "consensual crimes" in general, which can be read online for free. It's called Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do by Peter McWilliams.
Good stuff!
--jrd
PS: Hmm... I can't get that last link to end... the system is not recognizing the </a> tag... Whatever...
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» RE: ecommended reading...
Posted by: Iana_g
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Posted by: JoeEbola on Aug 9, 2005 12:14 PM
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» Rod from Canada
Posted by: Rod from Canada
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Posted by: its the economy, stupid! on Aug 9, 2005 2:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
well at least make sure that your not high while Iran is getting nuked to high heaven, that'll be shameful, but if you actually plan on taking your one life seriously and are thinking about shaping some history for the future of mankind, get down with the larouche youth movment, www.wlym.com, if call me personally 702 279 7719, ask for george rogers, not soros.
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» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: rococohobo
» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: George Soros loves Drug money!
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pjrsullivan on Aug 9, 2005 2:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Squeeze them until their eyes pop out is the mantra of the murdering rich.
From the time of the Romans, any law that did not follow its stated intent, was declared a fraud and was non-enforcable.
Our drug laws, like our criminal class that created them, are frauds.
Our nuclear war criminal class has attempted to launch nuclear missiles on us, and they are still trying to do this. They, the murdering rich, and their phony drugs laws and prison camp society are going.
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» WTF Alert
Posted by: nickptar
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Posted by: Michiganman on Aug 9, 2005 6:01 PM
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» Jesus say's, exodus 30:22-24
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: Jesus say's, exodus 30:22-24
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: john henry on Aug 9, 2005 6:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: the good times are gone
Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: the good times are gone
Posted by: nitsua1023
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Posted by: nitsua1023 on Aug 9, 2005 6:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» ALL DRUGS COME FROM PLANTS, from God
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: ALL DRUGS COME FROM PLANTS, from God
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: harvestmeister on Aug 9, 2005 7:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First off, if marijuana is ever legalized for medical use, you can totally forget about it being legalized for recreational use. No prescription drug is currently approved for recreational use and probably never will be. If there is one I'm not familiar with, I look forward to being corrected. (Don't bother listing alcohol, I've never heard of anyone being prescribed Budweiser or Jack Daniels).
Secondly, the way the American public has been exposed to the potential of medical marijuana, via CNN and frequent video of "cannabis clubs" in California, with the bead-dangling, tie-dye shirt wearing hippie chicks serving up bowls of buds to "sick people", who for all intents and purposes look pretty healthy on TV; or the recent images shown to America after the recent Supreme Court ruling, where "patients" are shown picking and choosing their "variety" of medicine from a counter while other "patients" sit at tables with drinks in a "club" to partake of their "medicine" has totally soured the American vision of medical marijuana (I'm talking about the other 49 states).
Since when do people pick up their prescriptions and take their medicine in a communal setting with others? I've never heard of or seen a "valium club" or a "penicillin club" or any other prescription drug "club".
If, when the topic of medical marijuana was first approached, the images shown to America were of patients approaching a pharmaceutical window, turning in their prescription to the pharmacist, receiving a sealed bottle or package of their medicine, putting it in their pocket, taking the medicine home, and medicating themselves in the privacy of their home, I truly believe that there would be legal, federally endorsed, medical marijuana today.
Instead, they made it look like a bunch of people partying in a nightclub.
However, since I for one would much prefer to see legalization for recreational use, in hindsight, I'm kind of glad they did approach it in this way. For I am pretty sure that as long as that is the image being presented to the American public about marijuana as medicine, I have no worries about it ever being legalized for medical use.
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» As if...
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: As if...
Posted by: harvestmeister
» RE: As if...
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: As if...
Posted by: harvestmeister
» RE: As if...
Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: As if...
Posted by: harvestmeister
» RE: As if...
Posted by: LMNOP
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drich on Aug 9, 2005 8:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hemp is not marijuana
Posted by: heatherj
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Posted by: Michiganman on Aug 9, 2005 8:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Censorship..BAD from Bambic
Posted by: bambic
» RE: Censorship..BAD
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Censorship..BAD
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» Hey Michiganman...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» In solidarity with Michiganman...
Posted by: herb
Comments are closed-
Posted by: uptownkid on Aug 10, 2005 9:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the issue of psychosis, puerperal psychosis affects 1-3% of all new mothers according to About.com (http://womensissues.about.com/library/blwyntkppp.htm) -- No marijuana mentioned there.
I wonder how much people suffer from psychosis? And out of the total, what's the percentage that use marijuana. If it's substantially less than 50% which i think it is... then you can't really blame marijuana. Maybe so much people use marijuana that it's likely you'll find people with psychosis or who's predisposed to having the condition who's using the herb. It's the same with buying and selling marijuana. So much people sells it that it's likely terrorists are selling it as well. Dosen't mean every purchase is lining bin laden's pocket! Maybe just a coincidence and not as the gov. would like you to believe in an effort to support their cause.
Drugs in this country is precieved in a weird way. Prescription Drugs bought from "drug" stores are 1000% more dangerous. Our current president is a former coke-head who obviously was still capable of making something of himself - "President"
GEORGE W. BUSH and every president before him has sent teenagers/KIDS/ADOLESCENTS to JAIL and PRISON for smoking a herb that, at it's worst, causes "personal" bodily harm that's less severe than other legal substance. YOUR KIDS are subjected to humiliating searches, stabbings, assault and bullying by both other inmates and corrections officers. SENDING KIDS to jail over marijuana smoking should be considered a CRIMINAL ACT. I rather get cancer of the BODY and die a happy, free man than to be put away in a cage like an animal for smoking weed. I've seen knives in jail made from all sorts of items, including "real" rambo-type knives stuffed in inmates butts that's waiting to puncture someone's body.
Do you want to subject your kids to that kind of condition? for what? lol silly nation... smoke more weed! Wisen up... Obesity is resposnible for over 300,000 deaths a year. FOOD is worst than weed in terms of fatalities. OH YEAH!... think there isn't drugs in JAIL? Think again... Prison is a University for Crime -- Not a place for teenagers who's only offence is marijuana possession.
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Posted by: Stephen Lint on Aug 10, 2005 10:08 AM
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http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/jewell.htm
"This is your brain on Marijuana". What is NOT being explained is the TRUE effects of marijuana on the human brainwave patterns. What we see being displayed in that commercial are ALPHA waves. According to ALL reputable studies from the likes of Cornell University and many many more, marijuana does lower the Alpha pattern BUT it throws the brain back into BETA where it performs its BEST thinking and in depth examination. It allows for deeper scrutiny. It is proven by university research to be beneficial to the body and to move the brain from an Alpha brainwave patter to its proper Beta brainwave pattern. Is this the reason what has been labeled by leading university research, as being the safest and most beneficial drug on earth has been deemed illegal?
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Posted by: doneman2000 on Aug 10, 2005 11:06 AM
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» RE: One Reason The Right Hates Pot
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: nearnorth on Aug 10, 2005 12:51 PM
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Except that the gun has about a million chambers and still only one bullet.
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Posted by: kamala on Aug 10, 2005 3:07 PM
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And many people on serious mind altering prescription drugs that treat depression and anxiety could probably benefit from a simple joint, what would that do for the drug companies bottom line? I think cannibis is one of gods greatest gifts to us. It is pure hippocracy, propaganda, imperialist control and capitalist greed that keeps this herb restricted.
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Posted by: kamala on Aug 10, 2005 3:17 PM
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Posted by: heatherj on Aug 10, 2005 5:15 PM
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1. The pharmaceutical industry--obvious reasons
2. The paper industry--hemp is a renewable resource that makes paper as good as or better than trees.
3. The lumber industry--hemp fiber can be made into building products, such as particle board, also
4. The cotton industry--obvious reasons
5. The synthetic (petroleum-based) fabrics industry, as hemp makes better fabric than some of the synthetics & hemp oil can be used to make plastics and synthetic fabrics. In fact, one of the prime movers behind the campaign to illegalize pot, back in the 1930's was E. I. duPont, who didn't want hemp, for which better processing methods had just been invented, to cut into his nylon business. The other big mover was William Randolph Hearst, who used his newspapers in the campaign to ban pot, because he didn't want cheaper hemp paper cutting into his lumber interests.
6. The oil industry. Lots of good fuel can be made from hemp oil.
7. Here's the big one--THE GOVERNMENT. Another big reason pot was banned was that all those federal agents that were enforcing prohibition needed a new job when it was repealed. Now, we can't have all those unemployed cops and DEA agents, can we? As well as no longer having good reason for much government intrusion into the lives of Americans.
8. The prison industry. Many prisons are privately run, AND provide basically slave labor for major corporations.
9. The alcohol and cigarette industry probably would lose money, as would organized crime, but I think it would probably be minor. It's been my experience that most heavy drinkers are not people who would be all that interested in pot, and I expect organized crime makes a lot more money with the more expensive drugs.
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» and
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: gltirebiter on Aug 10, 2005 6:14 PM
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this is a political and social purge, make no mistake. the drug warriors are no more interested in the health of the people than the man in the moon. what they are interested in is creating a criminal class that cannot vote and a superstructure that requires huge amounts of tax dollars to support courts, cops, prison builders, prison guards (and their unions), probation officers, etc ad nauseum. this is all about the destruction of personal freedom and responsibility and the suppression of true american values.
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» RE: it makes perfect sense
Posted by: heatherj
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Posted by: dee.halz on Aug 11, 2005 5:30 AM
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Having been through cancer treatment, I KNOW how expensive the drugs for chemo-induced nausea are. In my case, if insurance hadn't covered it, it would have been $50 to $100 per pill! It is not just morally reprehensible that medical marijuana is being fought--it is criminally abusive. Because the drug companies cannot patent a plant (yet--give Monsanto time to genetically modify it), people are forbidden to grow it so they could have access to a much more affordable medicine.
More and more people in this country can't afford health care, but government does nothing about that because the insurance industry is so effective at opposing reforms. More and more people can't afford necessary medications because Big Pharma opposes reforms.
It's about time this country returned to government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Dee
Lowell, MA
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» Watch DEAWatch
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: Ambioric on Aug 11, 2005 4:04 PM
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If someone has underlying schizophrenic tendencies they should be cautious. Because of my experience I often question other smokers I know and only ever heard of 2 other people around here experiencing something similar. Take this all with a grain of salt however, stories I've heard of bad acid trips are as bad or worse (ergot poisoning not a pleasant way to go).
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» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Bearzerker44
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Mycos
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Bearzerker
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: smidget2k4
» RE: yours is the reason that pot should be legal
Posted by: Bearzerker
» RE: I'm guessing I've experienced what you mention
Posted by: Mycos
» RE: I'm guessing I've experienced what you mention
Posted by: Bearzerker
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Posted by: Lauren on Aug 11, 2005 8:15 PM
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One thing I realised with this exceptional and very pleasurable, but ego destroying, experience was that it seemed very simular to the historical accounts of experiences of most of the major religious leaders. Zorastor, Jesus, Mohamaded, Budda, ect. I strongly believe Jesus was a pothead.
Imagine the total distruction of the religious right's arguments when confronted with a society of peaceful communers with god and nature. There goes the wiki wiki consumer economy.
You dont have to imagine their reaction, just read the history of Native American religions. To us the pipe is sacred, as are the various sacred plants we smoke in it. The smoke carries our prayers to the four winds, to the great spirit (Allah).
God can be a drug experience, one that opens one's mind to greater perceptions. But then, I am a lifetime religious thinker, reader, ect. It doesn't work for everyone.
I would encourage everyone to read about Native American religion. It is very accessable and nurturing. Look in the history section at Borders Books, you wont find us included in the religion section. Religious predjudice against Native Americans is alive and very strong in America. It fuels the drug war.
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» RE: Lauren
Posted by: Lazerai
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Posted by: Mycos on Aug 11, 2005 9:42 PM
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In light of the recent arrest and extradition request of Marc Emery for the heinous crime of selling marijuana seeds to US citizens, I have petitioned our government to ask US authorities to arrest and extradite American gun-dealers who sell weapons to persons they know to be Canadian or be Canadian resellers. After all, isn't it all about protecting our own citizens from the hands of those foreign devils who's actions wreak death and destruction on our soil? Or do you suppose that our respective government officials will say that this kind of an action against the US would be out of proportion?
I surely hope that no such person exists anywhere within our government. If they do, they should be immediately stripped of any power or authority they may have over those of us who remain rational....in the U.S. I believe you refer to us as "the reality crowd". Heh! IMO, "out of proportion" doesn't begin to even hint at the reality of your governments actions on Emery, the War on Drugs, War on Terror, etc, etc, etc. ad nauseum. I'm reminded of the London Daily Newspaper headline which expressed the rest of the worlds profound sense of utter confusion and amazement when Bush was re-elected. "How Can 56 million People Be So Stupid?!!" Indeed.
And while we're here, doesn't US law strictly forbid the DEA to engage in the deliberate obstruction or sabotage of the electoral process? If so, then why isn't Karen Tandy being taken to task for her statement to Seattle journo Joel Conelly regarding her attempt at obstructing those American voter campaigns that advocate marijuana-law reform? That's democracy isn't it?
Mycos
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» Will someone please tell me...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Will someone please tell me...
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: mr ogre on Aug 12, 2005 11:42 AM
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Posted by: KevinOwen@rehabilitatenz.co.nz on Aug 12, 2005 9:11 PM
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see full article
linked text
Report and recommendations on
methadone and other disastrous psychiatric
drug 'rehabilitation' programs
Drug addiction is not a disease. Real solutions do exist.
Clearing away psychiatry’s false information about drugs and addiction is not only a fundamental
part of restoring hope; it is the first step towards achieving real drug rehabilitation.
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» RE: rehab Fraud Scientology's Drug Sham
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: jducote on Aug 14, 2005 4:39 PM
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» Need an answer?
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: duluth1941 on Aug 15, 2005 7:37 PM
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» RE: Pot, Weed, Marijuana, Mary Jane et all
Posted by: Mycos
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Posted by: KJSIA42 on Aug 30, 2005 9:26 AM
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Posted by: acaryatid on Sep 26, 2005 6:08 AM
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Safety has nothing to do with American policy on drugs or anything else. American policies all center on protecting the turf of the Russell Trust members. It's about the money, money for the families of the Russell Trust Corporation.
The RTC was initially formed as a cartel by the opium dealing families of Forbes and Russell in the 1800's. They've executed a flawless business plan over the last 135 years and now control the country. How else can you explain a guy like Dubbya as "leader" of the world's greatest superpower.
Today there are about 700 members who's business interest include oil, drugs, alcohol and tobacco. In 1934 they too control of the money supply and made the FED a private enterprise. The growing national debt isn't really to China it's to their banking interests which have been moved under claims of global trade improving our economy.
Are Americans feeling better off from the expansion into foreign markets? Until Americans wake up and see this as the organized crime operation they are we will continue to have corporate killing, treasury looting and a handful of beneficiaries robbing us of our freedom and destroying the planet for our children.
Americans may think of themselves as divided by political parties but the fact is the 1% who benefits is the Russell Trust and the 99% are the rest of us.
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NYC Police Accused of 'Anal Assault' Over Marijuana Use
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