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Burning Questions for the Authors of 'Marijuana Is Safer'

By Paul Armentano and Steve Fox, AlterNet. Posted August 15, 2009.


The authors of a new book on misconceptions about marijuana respond to the torrent of comments on an excerpt published on AlterNet.
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Marijuana is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink? by Steve Fox, Paul Armentano and Mason Tvert
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On August 6, AlterNet posted an excerpt from the new book Marijuana Is Safer: So Why Are We Driving Americans to Drink? (Chelsea Green, 2009).  Reader response was overwhelming. Within hours, the excerpt was AlterNet's most trafficked and commented upon features of the week. 

Co-authors Paul Armentano and Steve Fox have responded a selection of several of the comments, as well as some of the most common questions they have received since Marijuana Is Safer was released.

AlterNet: What do you believe are the biggest misconceptions about marijuana?

Paul Armentano: There are two broad misconceptions about marijuana.  On one side, you typically have those opposed to any change in marijuana policy claiming that the plant is far more dangerous to the user and to society than it actually is.  On the other side, you sometimes have proponents of cannabis law reform arguing that it is virtually harmless.  Both positions are incorrect, and we go to great lengths to explain this fact in Marijuana Is Safer.  The bottom line: no potentially mind-altering substance is harmless, including marijuana.  But by any measurable standard, marijuana is much safer than alcohol, and our book provides readers with an objective frame of reference – the legally regulated use of alcohol by adults – for which they can objectively compare the use of marijuana.  For those readers who don’t believe that marijuana is safer than booze, our book will change they way they think about pot; for those readers who already support changing our antiquated and draconian pot policies, our book will change the way they talk about marijuana.

AlterNet: In Marijuana Is Safer, you compare and contrast the relative harms and legal status of marijuana and alcohol. So, in what ways is marijuana safer? 

Steve Fox:  Marijuana is safer than alcohol in virtually every way that matters.  First, marijuana is far less toxic.  Alcohol, quite literally, is a poison. That is why excessive alcohol use often causes vomiting.  The body is rejecting the poison.  And, as most people know, consuming too much alcohol can result in an overdose death.  Marijuana, on the other hand, is virtually non-toxic  to healthy cells and major organs.  In fact, the active components in marijuana – known as cannabinoids -- actually mimic chemicals naturally produced by the body (so-called endocannabinoids) that are necessary for the maintenance of proper health.  Further, unlike alcohol, marijuana does not depress the central nervous system, making an overdose impossible, regardless of how much a person consumes.  (There are no recorded marijuana overdose cases in history.)  Beyond overdose deaths, the U.S. government estimates that consumption of alcohol is the primary cause of about 35,000 American deaths annually. And those are deaths attributed just to the adverse health impacts of alcohol ingestion on the body – not deaths from alcohol-induced accidents or incidents. The comparable government figure for marijuana deaths is zero. 

That said, contrasting the health effects of the two substances on the body is just one part of the equation.  The more troubling aspect of steering Americans toward alcohol is that alcohol use is far more likely to be associated with violent crime.  We devote almost an entire chapter in the book to detailing the multitude of alcohol-driven offenses.  We discuss campus-based sexual assaults and other acts of student-on-student violence.  We also provide federal government statistics demonstrating the staggering number of alcohol-related violent crimes in this country.  We even include information about alcohol-related violence from around the world.  By contrast, marijuana use is not associated with an increased likelihood of violent behavior – or even risk of serious injury.  Just the opposite.  It is actually more likely to tamp down tensions and aggressive behavior, as the former chief of the Seattle Police Department explains in the foreword to the book.


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Paul Armentano is the deputy director of NORML (the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws). Steve Fox is director of government relations for the Marijuana Policy Project. They are co-authors, along with Mason Tvert of the book Marijuana Is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink (2009, Chelsea Green).

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Drowning Is Dangerous.
Posted by: melpol on Aug 15, 2009 1:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Safety factors on the use of marijuana and alcohol must be focused on the person that is using them. Broad brushing the issue is stupid and will not produce a valid answer. The safety factor on water consumption must be based on the person drinking it. Drowning is dangerous and water must be consumed in moderation.

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» RE: Drowning Is Dangerous. Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Drowning Is Dangerous. Posted by: Rossisaurus
2 National Government studies find, punishment worse than Pot!
Posted by: hardwroc on Aug 15, 2009 1:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first "drug Czar" created by Nixon was told to do an in depth study of Cannabis. His results were that the punishment for possessing Pot, was worse than any effect of Pot.

The second major study found very nearly the same.

Far from PUSHING the use of pot, we just need to stop ruining lives, and wasting vast quantities of resources to arrest, prosecute, and incarcerate people that are hurting No one.

This has proven to be a "just because" law, and has done more harm than good.
We repealed prohibition for a good reason, and that very same reason exists again. Why do we refuse to learn from the past?
If prohibition was a bad idea then, it certainly makes no more sense NOW.

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This is a good overview but forgot to mention the ethnic cleansing effect
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Aug 15, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They still refuse to discuss it as religious jihad against us as a distinct group of people. Why is that?

Well I should be glad we are finally discussing family violence and sexual violence against women. But I gotta wonder why the police never care about that.

Not wonder too much, I found out the hard way. I can see into the hearts of men. I know what is on their mind by what is on their face. They gang up against women like me to put me in my place.

I think pot prohibition is a cover for racism, rape and abuse. And then after the fact, it is a criminal conspiracy to cover it up, a vicious cycle of abuse.

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liquor lobby rules us all
Posted by: littlepitcher on Aug 15, 2009 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole and entire reason for marijuana prohibition is that the liquor lobby is fighting tooth and nail against home-grown intoxicants.

That said, I don't trust the medical evidence gathered by either pressure group. I've seen quite a few early deaths from lung cancer of daily marijuana smokers.

The accident data is also specious, since most states do not test for cannabis intoxication after auto accidents.

I still favor legalization, but would like to see a test developed which would reveal recent use, rather than the metabolic tests which show residual cannabinoids for up to three months post-consumption.

Remember, NORML is a lobby, and lobbyists slant the facts their way.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Re: Lobbyists slant the facts Posted by: rationalthought
» RE: e: Lobbyists slant the facts Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: e: Lobbyists slant the facts Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: lung cancer from marijuana? Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Please explain your post Posted by: kettleblack
» I have an honest question Posted by: Karlh
» RE: I have an honest question Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: I have an honest question Posted by: bearglove
» RE: liquor lobby rules us all Posted by: RumbleFish
The Ghost of Anslinger is still haunting us
Posted by: xvictor on Aug 15, 2009 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He must still be laughing hard from his fiery sanctum in Hell.

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» RE: Obama is laughing at us today Posted by: kettleblack
Ms. K.C.
Posted by: kathrynchandler on Aug 15, 2009 6:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not withstanding serious international and domestic issues i.e. nuclear disarmament, terrorism, national healthcare reform etc., I sincerely believe that the 2 greatest accomplishments of the first decade of the 21st century will have been the election of the first Black man to the Presidency, and the legalization of marijuana. Thanks, for a truly enlightened article; we on the so-called 'left' have been saying many of these same things for years.

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» Amen, sister. Posted by: grindermonkey
NORML "Tax and Regulate" Model is Bullshit
Posted by: bcainw on Aug 15, 2009 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
===========
AlterNet: Let's say marijuana becomes legal. How would you envision it being regulated, produced, distributed, and sold?

Paul Armentano: We devote an entire chapter of Marijuana Is Safer to addressing this topic. In short, rules regulating the sale and use of many legal products, and alcohol in particular, are complex and vary greatly according to state and local laws. Nowhere in the United States is booze legal in the same manner that oranges are chewing gum are legal. In virtually all cases, the laws regulating alcohol’s possession, sale, and use are designed to reflect cultural mores, maximize public safety, and discourage abuse – particularly among young people. We propose that similar standards should govern the regulated sale and use of cannabis.
===========

Bullshit. We can brew our own beer without any taxing or regulation. And that is how it should be with Marijuana. NORML has said again and again that it supports personal cultivation. I don't believe them and I think this proves that they support a "tax and regulate model"

The answer is the MERP Model. This is the best solution and serves the common good of everyone. To learn more:

MERP Headquarters
The Marijuana Re-Legalization Policy Project (MRPP) = "MERP"
http://www.newagecitizen.com/MERP.htm

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Legal cannabis would reduce alcohol, tobacco and pharmaceutical product consumption.
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Aug 15, 2009 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's no doubt. The guy who drinks a six-pack every night after work might stop if he could smoke a joint instead. The anti-depressant pill-popping crowd and the pain medication pill-popping crowd would be able to treat both problems at once (cannabis is a noted anti-depressant and pain reliever) without worrrying about dying of a drug overdose, the way Heath Ledger did.

Indeed, if Heath Ledger had chosen cannabis over his pills, he'd still be with us today - and that goes for many other people as well.

This is part of a more general approach to all drug sales - for example, some cities have started to ban tobacco sales at drug and grocery stores, and instead restricting sales to specially licensed tobacoo dealers - much like a liquor license. What if drug and grocery stores couldn't sell hard liquor, either?

Personally, I don't believe your average drug/grocery store should be selling cannabis, either. Such sales should be restricted to licensed dealers and growers who are carefully regulated and taxed, and people should be allowed to grow their own, just as homebrewing beer is legal - as long as you don't start selling it.

Limiting sales of all recereational drugs (including tobacco and alcohol) to a limited number of registered sites is also the best way to limit underage access to the real killers - tobacco and alcohol and prescription pharmaceuticals.

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» RE: oh yes it is Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: maybe, Posted by: grammasanity
Obama disappoints...
Posted by: xvictor on Aug 15, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
after he said he will NOT favor legalization. perhaps I should give him the benefit of the doubt because his administration is young and still needs some seasoning. For him to go and say he will legalize at this early stage might provide fodder for the sicko rightwingers, bleating that he's "soft on crime", label him as the "presidential dope pusher" or some nonsense crap like that.

During his administration, Bill Clinton knuckled under easily from the onslaught and had to prove he was a man in front of those rabid foaming-at-the-mouth majority repugs by militariziing the nation's police forces.

But Clinton was not the first one. Dem House Leader Tip O'Neil had succumbed to the 'soft on crime' mania during the Reagan administration and helped draft harsh barbaric legislation that was devoid of all sense, virtually outdoing the Repugs own tortuous version. Even sitting judges felt they were out of line.

Please, Mr. Obama, show some sense and don't knuckle under. do the right thing.

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Marijuana is not a cure for alcoholism or any other addiction
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 15, 2009 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is disingenuous to use a potential drop in the use of other drugs as a selling point for legalization. There is no evidence that such a drop will occur; it is entirely hypothetical. While it does seem likely that the MJ alternative might cause a small number of people to reject a more harmful drug, it is more likely that a larger number of people will simply add MJ to their daily regimen of alcohol and pills. This is not the winning argument, and people who favor legalization should avoid it.

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» I don't want to be wrong Posted by: leafsong1
» Cure, no; basis for cure, YES Posted by: tokerdesigner
» RE: Cure, no; basis for cure, YES Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» You misjudge me Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: You misjudge me Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: You misjudge me Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: You misjudge me Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Portugal Posted by: finch
» RE: Cannabis is the smartest choice Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» But it worked for me Posted by: thornwolf
» Point taken Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: But it worked for me Posted by: jennymac
Marijuana is a gateway drug to tobacco use
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 15, 2009 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is little to distinguish munchies from a cigarette craving, and aside from eating something, only a nicotine buzz relieves it. Nicotine addiction piggybacks on anything the addict does for pleasure, but its affinity for a fresh MJ high is worse than that for a freshly filled stomach or freshly climaxed genitalia.

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» RE: leafsong1 is a big time liar Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Sister, I don't deserve that Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: ON THE CONTRARY Posted by: grammasanity
» No it is not! n/m Posted by: RR#1
Where is the study on the link between MJ use and obesity?
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 15, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being slothful and lumpy is not a direct health hazard, but it is an indirect one.

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Marijuana is a gateway drug to euphoria, the single greatest threat to corporations.
Posted by: grindermonkey on Aug 15, 2009 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is unsafe to drive whether you are drunk, stoned or sober. More sober drivers are involved in accidents than any other group. Random polls, informal surveys and casual utterances at reputable bars during rush hour lead to this undeniable conclusion and suggest that spending rush hour in a bar is far safer than driving. Marijuana induced euphoria, however, solves the problem conclusively by preventing the user from taking a job further than walking distance from home but within walking distance to a bar.

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and not to mention
Posted by: TrembleTheDevil on Aug 15, 2009 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That our drug laws have lead the number of black imprisoned for illicit drug use to become so laughably disproportionate that the Department of Justice is now lying about them:

When Justice Lies

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» RE: and not to mention Posted by: TrembleTheDevil
Just let us grow our own: untaxed and unregulated
Posted by: bcainw on Aug 15, 2009 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just let us grow our own: untaxed and unregulated. The idea that Marijuana needs to be heavily regulated is crap. If you can brew your own beer why can't you cultivate your own Marijuana?

Here are 4 things that MERP will do that will not be achieved through the inititatives supported by NORML, DPA, MPP and many other moneyed organizations:

(1) Defund all of the Mexican, Islamic and other drug cartels.
(2) Defund all of the local drug gangs
(3) Cripple the movement toward a centralized Globalist Government
(4) Reclaim the liberties lost in the wake of 911
An Overview of the MERP Model for Marijuana Re-Legalization
http://www.newagecitizen.com/MERP/RelegalizeNowObama02.htm

So WHY won't any of these organizations support the MERP Model?

MERP is supported by some of the most prominent member of the "real" drug reform movement: John Sinclair, Krystal Cole, Ron Kasinsky, Bruce Cain and Jodie and Marc Emery. With such prominent support, WHY no support from NORML, DPA and MPP?

Supporters of Marijuana Re-Legalization Under the MERP Model
http://www.newagecitizen.com/MERP/MERP_Support_Status.htm

If you really want to "grow your own" then please get on our mailing list. This is the "real deal."

Get on my mailing list:
http://www.newagecitizen.com/EmailListSignUp.asp

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Legalize Marijuana in California
Posted by: ab390 on Aug 15, 2009 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our current marijuana laws are impossible to enforce. Despite decades of eradication and arresting 800,000 Americans a year, pot is still easier to buy for most high school kids than beer.

Keeping marijuana illegal does not benefit our children. It benefits special interest groups: the alcoholic beverage industry, the prison industry, police departments and their suppliers, government bureaucrats, and drug cartels.

It is immoral to prevent responsible adults from choosing to use a less harmful substance in place of alcohol. If pot were legalized, alcohol use would decrease along with its social costs.

Tell your legislators to support California Assembly Bill 390 to legalize, tax, and regulate marijuana for adults. Visit yes390.org

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Re-Legalize Marijuana Now, Obama
Posted by: bcainw on Aug 15, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re-Legalize Marijuana Now, Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=japj6qctSmk

The time has come for the People of Planet Earth to rise up and demand the Re-Legalization of Marijuana.


My name is Bruce Cain and I am the current editor of the website “New Age Citizen.” I am an expert on drug policy issues and used to be known as “Professor Hemp” during my tenure as editor of the nationally distributed magazine: New Age Patriot which was published from 1989 through 1997.

This is the first, in a series, of discussions focusing on how we are going to go about Re-Legalizing Marijuana in the United States and throughout the planet.

In the weeks between the election and the inauguration President Obama created the change.gov website in order to gather policy recommendation from the American People. To Obama’s surprise the most recommended “change,” from the American People was to Re-Legalize Marijuana for both medical and personal use.

And how did President Obama respond to “We the American People?” He flatly rejected the will of the American People by stating:

“I am not going to Legalize Marijuana.”

Next, merely days after he was inaugurated he allowed the Federal Drug Enforcement Administration to raid multiple Medical Grow Operations in California and other states where the people passed initiatives to allow the Medicinal use of Marijuana. This was a blatant betrayal of his campaign promise to stop the DEA raids on “Medical Grow Operations.”

Well, President Obama, we are no longer going to tolerate your dismissive “Yes We Can’t” on Marijuana Re-Legalization. It is no longer “Yes We Can’t” unless it serves the interests of the Global Elite whom I believe you represent. From now on our battle cry will be “We Demand” that you Re-Legalize Marijuana.. We aren’t taking “no” for an answer any longer. Frankly 70 years of Marijuana Prohibition is 70 years too long.

For the entire essay goto:

http://www.newagecitizen.com/MERP/RelegalizeNowObama01.htm

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One big reason why pot is illegal is because big pharma, alcohol & tobacco complexes don't want any
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Aug 15, 2009 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
competition from a weed that anyone can grow & can't be patented!

Another big reason is that illegal pot invents plenty of make-work for cops, lawyers, private prison industry, DEA, etc., etc.,

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If the government can crush and burn our clunkers then we should be able to roll and burn a joint.
Posted by: grindermonkey on Aug 15, 2009 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's only fair; we may not be corporations but we have feelings of despair that need attention as well.

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Prohibition is the cause [Lion's share] of criminal activity...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Aug 15, 2009 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and funds organized crime while fueling gangland turf wars just like how Al Capone made his fortune from selling his blackmarket item of choice.

if we legalize then the criminal aspect that prohibition funds goes away as well.

Lets start focusing on the harm prohibition causes...
support LEAP and their HARM reduction strategies!

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Strictly in the interest of advancing the discussion here ;.)
Posted by: stellabloo on Aug 15, 2009 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Currently the big difference between alcohol and other drugs is that alcohol consumption is called "drinking" which is something we all do everyday to stay alive and use of other drugs (i.e. questionable or illegal use) is called "shooting up" , "popping pills", "huffing", and of course, "smoking". All of which are artificial means of delivery with attached stigma.

Therefore, in the interests of fairness and justice, I give you the recipe for pot butter (this is not your mother's pot brownie!):

But first, a couple of disclaimers and a bit of background:

THC, as mentioned above, is fat soluble. Therefore, butter can be used to extract the THC from any grade of plant (i.e. stems, leaves, sativa flower ...). Historically, wide-spread cultural use has involved the consumption of marijuana, rather than its combustion. Smoking flowertops was something poor people did at a time when tobacco, opium and hashish were smoked by the wealthy.

A short digression on that note, by the turn of the last century, hash and hemp had become two entirely separate things, neither of them stigmatized. The marijuana plant was simply so plentiful that copious quantities of high potency indica strains were grown in hotter climes (lebonese hash, anyone?) and the crystals were simply rubbed off the flowertops through a screen and compressed for shipping and sale.

The other way of extracting THC is with alcohol and this was the most common form of marijuana use in mainstream american society - right up to prohibition, Lydia Pinkham's Vegetative (vegetative, get it?) Tonic for Feminine Complaint was a best-seller, a medicine cabinet staple right along with laudanum (alcohol-based extract of opium) - both commonplace OTC home remedies.

Presently smoking is preferred to eating pot because usage can be better controlled: cooking pot is a long and smelly process and it's easy to eat too much ... leading only to a few hours of pleasant slumber but this is usually not the intended effect! On the other hand, eating is a natural activity, the high lasts almost twice as long, and goodies prepared with pot butter are virtually indistinguishable from the regular kind.

Get a cooking pot. Add whatever you're planning to cook. Cover with water. Add butter e.g. two lbs for a big pasta pot of leaves or 1/2 lb for a saucepan of bud). Bring to gentle boil for 1-2 hours, 3 for really big stalks. Strain through cheesecloth RESERVING LIQUID and try to press out as much liquid as you can. The leaves are now ready to be thrown away. Set the bowl or pot of liquid in your fridge overnight. By morning the butter will have formed a cake on top of the liquid and can be easily removed. Scrape off any gunk on the bottom of the cake and discard remaining liquid.

Save the butter in your freezer until ready to use in your favorite recipe. Of course you could just put it on toast with jam but where's the creativity in that? One last word of learned wisdom: Always remember that no one ever, ever eats just one half of a cookie - adjust your recipe accordingly ;.)

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what about the carcinogens in weed?
Posted by: masthead on Aug 15, 2009 10:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
last i heard about it, weed has twice the carcinogens than tobacco so that's unhealthy. marijuana is also four times more potent than it was in the sixties and seventies, therefore someone, like my friend, who doesn't have a tolerance for it could end up in the intensive care unit. besides if you buy it from a bad source it could be laced with another narcotic.

why can't people just get high on nature

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» RE: Marijuana makes you peaceful Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» No, pot smoking inhibits cancer Posted by: thornwolf
» 4 Times More Potent? Posted by: iolanthe
Safer than ETOH ??
Posted by: jkilccdc on Aug 15, 2009 11:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These guys are pretty naive if they believe that "pot smokers" will eschew other drugs including beverage alcohol. Its interesting to sit in an AA meeting at the county jail and hear someone say; "I was okay. Then I smoked a joint and I don't know what happened".
I would suggest that education is a beginning step. Decriminalization is a possibility and is long overdue, but the lack of generational studies and long term follow up studies on cannabis preclude its acceptance as a "legal" drug.
There are no studies on its use with other drugs nor on the synergistic effects when used with other drugs. As far as the study on medical effects its important to remember that gene and chromosonal damage are associated with tobacco, only chromosonal damage with cannabis - does this make it safer than tobacco?????? Lots of questions.

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» Safer alternatives to "joint" Posted by: tokerdesigner
Prohibition For Dummies
Posted by: SpiritMatter on Aug 15, 2009 3:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PROHIBITION FOR DUMMIES
Even killing is not prohibited in man’s or God’s law! It is regulated. The police and citizens have the right to use deadly force to defend themselves. How much more should less harmful behaviors be regulated instead of prohibited?

Prohibition increases disrespect for the law.
Freedom with reasonable and just regulation increases respect for the law.

Prohibition benefits both the tax sucking enforcement bureaucracies and the crime organizations.
Freedom minimizes tax sucking enforcement bureaucracies and crime organizations.

Prohibition destroys the lives of otherwise productive law abiding citizens.
Freedom allows otherwise law abiding citizens to be productive.

Prohibition tears apart more families.
Freedom keeps more families together.

Prohibition punishes the users, who are usually in the majority, with the abusers.
Freedom respects the intelligence of the users and punishes only the abusers.

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location location location
Posted by: doalive on Aug 15, 2009 4:46 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in the fat cells as some of us have may have heard,,,is prime real estate for an un earthly cocktail,dis placed and remodafied (kraft-fOOds)a malady,obiesity,unlike say war disease,which in itself an isidious recalitraince capable of only feeding on it self,or any other locally availed source,(hydra,proto,zymn and or lazy ass catalyst further propagating a path of fatalist dimension and exspansive at that,similiar to the early precurser cancer sent to famaliarize the anti gen the truer nature the local dynamics the home universe or aka structure of physics the nearer solar star,,,location as host and food source or in this case fuel and empire infinite finite or and demise,,,PS fuel for thought or something else,consider it yer self the thing much higher than the fyres involved reguards what they sell and why primative and ignarent as currently arrayed,etc,etc and on & on forever till the beginning aka the end OO not to mention taxes afganistain and of course the underworld powers alias that _-? 00ooOO*!*

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» Holy shit, You're Nuts! Posted by: iolanthe
Depends on what "safe" is.
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 15, 2009 4:54 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, I can drink a beer and walk senselessly. Smoke MJ and I wouldn't be walking strangely. I might even be a little more saner. But here's the problem. You know those silly drug testings for employment that you do upon getting hired or when your employer subjects you to random drug testing? We USAns are scared to death of being unemployed just because of THC testing so in our desperation, we'll happily get drunk but not smoke MJ. I don't see Obama changing that especially since VP Biden was a drug czar. I support MJ over alcohol but our hands are tied behind our backs.

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» RE: Depends on what "safe" is. Posted by: Malkavian
The natural function of your endocannabinoids
Posted by: Defenestrator on Aug 15, 2009 5:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alright all you Ron Paul haters. Listen up ! HR 1866 is gonna rescue America from
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 15, 2009 6:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MJ prohibition so let's show a little respect and jam those Congressional phone lines tell your Congress people

SUPPORT HR 1866 !!

PS: MR OBAMA, TEAR DOWN THIS CANNABIS PROHIBITION WALL !!!

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kettleblack said (Part 1 )
Posted by: SamFox on Aug 15, 2009 7:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Remember the town hall meeting where Obama brushed aside the question of legalization with a laugh and a put-down of the VERY PEOPLE WHO HELPED GET HIM ELECTED, the online community.
That's as close as we will get to legalizing cannabis.
He is owned by the corporate industrial complex. "

This seems to be a true statement as afar as I can tell. From SAFER-

"The raids continue - when will the policy change?


Dear ASA Supporter,

On Wednesday, August 12th, officers representing seven different law enforcement agencies conducted raids in Los Angeles on two medical marijuana dispensaries and the owner's home. Please urge our President and Attorney General to stop this practice.

Dozens of officers representing the DEA, FBI, IRS, LA County Sheriff, and three city police departments executed the paramilitary style raids, which included helicopter air support. According to the Los Angeles Times, they even shot the dog.

While nothing yet is confirmed, ASA has learned that the raids may have been conducted over allegations of tax evasion and failure to pay workers' compensation. This does not seem to justify the presence of seven different law enforcement agencies. Despite California law and recent court decisions, are medical marijuana facilities still being singled out? Heavy-handed tactics like these seem to contradict the President's stated intentions of creating a new federal policy on medical marijuana.

From California cities to the Iowa Board of Pharmacy, more and more communities are taking the time to explore reasonable regulations facilitating access to medical marijuana. It is time for the federal government to follow suit.

Please urge President Obama and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to end DEA raids and develop a sensible national policy on medical marijuana.

Thank you for your help!

Sanjeev Bery
National Field Director
Americans for Safe Access "

SamFox





----------------------------------------------------------


____________________________________________________________

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kettleblack said (Part 2)
Posted by: SamFox on Aug 15, 2009 7:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is more on Obama letting the raids continue. At their website there are links for protesting the NON change in the Fed's MMJ policy-

From Drug Policy Alliance--

"You Can Make a Difference

Dear SamFox,

Urge your representative to support legalizing medical marijuana.


Email your representative

Why is this still happening?

Federal and local agents raided two Los Angeles-area medical marijuana dispensaries this week. During the raids, agents arrested the owner of the dispensaries, seized property and money, and shot a dog.

Why is the Justice Department still using Bush-era tactics to go after medical marijuana providers when, as a presidential candidate, Obama declared medical marijuana raids a waste of federal resources? Are you as outraged as I am? Ask Congress to end this ongoing federal interference by legalizing medical marijuana.

Congressman Barney Frank (D-MA) has introduced legislation to legalize marijuana for medical use. Tell Congress you support safe and legal access to medical marijuana. Write to your representative today.

Sincerely,

Bill Piper
Director, Office of National Affairs
Drug Policy Alliance Network"

SamFox

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» Don't forget HR 1866 ! Posted by: maxpayne
You obviously have never smoked pot you sanctimonious, Mr. Rogers wannabe.
Posted by: thedevil666 on Aug 15, 2009 9:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could try to smoke several kilos of pot and not end up in the I.C.U. I would probably not be able to smoke a quarter-sack before I fell asleep.

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Honesty is the best policy
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 16, 2009 12:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm 110 percent for legalization. Who should be able to say which way we help our harm ourselves? But I don't think we should be making arguments with questionable evidence. Smoking hurts the lungs; the blood, the body. Cigs are the worst, in part because of the nicotine and the tar. But the additives to make them taste good and preservatives contain hundreds of cancer-causing agents. I used to do some health writing and practically every illnesses is made worse by smoking.

Arguing that marijaua doesn't cause X, Y, and Z cancers is nice, but not when there's no evidence it doesn't help cause cancers A, B, C, D ... I consider that tack dishonest, or at least, disengenuous.

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» RE: Honesty is the best policy Posted by: kenhymes
» RE: Honesty is the best policy Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Honesty is the best policy Posted by: igotnews
The hysteria around marijuana isn't new.
Posted by: SicfkOfBush on Aug 16, 2009 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many years ago I began to receive a magazine called Aramco World Magazine, although I never knew why that prescription came about. It was probably related to my memborship in the American Chemical Society since Aramco is a short word for Arabian American Oil Company. Unfortunately, I still have only one issue of the magazine and a related book. In one issue, an issue that I can no longer find, there was described a semi-hysteria about certain cafes that were equated to opium dens. All this hysteria took place some hundreds of years ago. It was not a recent thing. However, the public views toward the drug and those cafes were very similar to the present views toward marijuana. The words marijuana or opium could be substituted for that drug in that article's description and the description would flow forward without having to change a word except marijuana or opium instead of that one for that drug. The drink containing that drug: coffee. Ignorance reigns.

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POt
Posted by: aablinko on Aug 16, 2009 12:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dude, I don't think a little pot ever hurt anyone. I been hittin it for 30+ years and I am still sharp as a tack!

RT
Online Privacy when it Counts

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Pot is not risk-free
Posted by: anneberm on Aug 16, 2009 4:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"marijuana is not as scary as he or she probably thinks it is"
Actually, from my experience, marijuana is far scarier than you think. I assumed it was as safe as everyone said when I tried it as a teen back in the seventies. It caused hallucinations, an extremely frightening mental reaction, and flashbacks for weeks afterwards. And no, it was not laced with any other substance. The friend I was smoking with did not have an unusual reaction like mine-- it only gave her a normal high. We shared the same joint -- and it was only one. I've never had any mental problems either before or since.
Based on my one extremely negative experience I can only say that a person's reaction to ANY mind-altering drug can be unique and unforeseeable and also potentially dangerous. I am very tired of the decades-long campaign to portray marijuana as harmless.

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» RE: Pot is not risk-free Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: Pot is not risk-free Posted by: anneberm
» RE: Pot is not risk-free Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Pot is not risk-free Posted by: oregonox
I have been smoking weed for over 40 years
Posted by: thethinkingman on Aug 17, 2009 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . I have my own engineering business with 427 employees.

I haven't been drunk in 5 years and I still enjoy an occasional beer or a glass of wine with dinner.

Drinking leads to arrogance, insensitivity and aggression while pot does the opposite.

It's just insane to make pot illegal. I am not a criminal I am a well adjusted , responsible family man and there are a lot of people like me out there.

Legalize it and let's worry about more important shit.

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thanx for your support
Posted by: itouch backup on Aug 17, 2009 9:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
M2TS Converter

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I Don't Like Smoking Either; I Eat My Cannabis
Posted by: iolanthe on Aug 17, 2009 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm both a recreational and medical cannabis user.

I have a tendency to get infections and such in my lungs.

I quit smoking tobacco at age 17, after having smoked tobacco for only 3 years. Even at that not-very-responsible age, even with a physical addiction that was difficult to shake, it was clear to me that tobacco was just too hard on my respiratory health.

Although I had encountered cannabis recreationally by that time, I still found the smoke quite irritating, but, unlike with tobacco, at least I wasn't inhaling it daily ... or even weekly.

Around that time, somebody gave me a cannabis brownie ... and a good brownie recipe! Once I learned to informally titrate the dose (edibles can be quite strong!) I realized I had found my answer. ;->

I am now nearly 60, intelligent, productive, happily married, and in excellent health. I occasionally consume a half-brownie before a concert or party, when I want to feel relaxed and a little buzzed but don't want to deal with a hangover or the bad case of the Stupids that alcohol sometimes creates.

I consume an entire brownie when I feel a migraine headache coming on. Works like a champ -- far better than the Imitrex I used to use. These headaches used to put me in the ER. Thanks to the fine and reliable products of Cali's (semi)legal cannabis dispensaries, I haven't visited the ER for a migraine in over 12 years.

Gee ... maybe that's why a lot of the pharma industry is so hellbent on keeping pot illegal. Dollars out of their pockets.

How could I forget? America is run for the benefit of huge corporations.

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Legalize Marijuana!!
Posted by: bwaren on Aug 18, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time to legalize marijuana. Expunge the records of millions of innocent African Americans and others who's lives have been ruined by incarceration and the crime of keeping those who toke from getting a good job. Billions spent on prisons, guards, cost of incarceration, etc. are breaking our country. Make it legal, tax the hell out of it and let it work for us.

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grow it ...eat it.....wear it.....and smoke it.....
Posted by: bluetara on Aug 18, 2009 11:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
so are we all going to wait , cross our fingers and pray that big daddy will legalize this most amazing plant. its very simple....stop being afraid and grow it...we don't need permission. stop being hamsters in a cage...maybe even bolder yet, turn your back on the cyst-em. go take a permaculture design course or put your kids through one to be self sufficient. the mandatory indoctrination camp we call education kills intuition, creativity and our imagination and it instills fear not to challenge authority. we are our own authority.

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I beg to differ with almost anyone here
Posted by: Malkavian on Aug 19, 2009 7:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hear me, Jaffa! :)

I'm sure the authors did a great, balanced job of describing just how cannabis can be risky.

However, it's extremely telling to watch the discussion spawned by the article about the book. It all gets sucked down into the black hole of safe, unsafe, does cannabis cause .... yada yada.

Analytically the political and safety questions are almost two separate issues.

You would really, really want to know just how cannabis can be risky when you contemplate using the drug. It's like a kitchen knife: you're so much better off knowing the technique that makes it possible to literally chop onions with your eyes closed.

However, trying to make cannabis sound "safer" in the context of politics is misleading as it sends the message that it's somehow relevant as to the legal status.

Indeed, it is not!

Marijuana isn't unsafe, it's un-special. Treating alcohol and cannabis differently is simply one thing: discrimination. The same sort of discrimination that goes into racism, misogyny and gay hating. That is all it can logically be used for in politics.

It should ALWAYS be said that:

From the fact that a drug is "dangerous" it does NOT logically follow that prohibition is the best solution. All alternatives must be evaluated.

Not even the prohibitionists believe "danger" to be a necessary and suficient reason for criminalizing it: many things are both legal and risky.

Thus, WE should not enter the discussion on the premise that "if only we could demonstrate the relative safety of cannabis ...". Really, that approach has been tried since, well, for a really long time!

In fact, a dangerous drug (relatively speaking) - like heroin - would benefit tremendously from legal, (strictly) regulated markets? Cannabis can't kill, but for your Cousins of Principle doing heroin the prohibition induced excess death is no laughing matter.

The REAL question is: given a choice of different policies which is the best for handling the risks posed by cannabis?

"Best" being constrained by our most fundamental values of personal freedom, pluralism and the right to remain secure in person and property as long as you don't infringe on your neighbors identical rights. Y'know ... The Constitution. Or the Golden Rule.

I prefer that arena by far.

The legalization cause has everything in common with women's rights, gay rights, and the anti-racism movements.

Did these Ancestors of Principle argue that "blacks aren't so bad, y'know, so we should allow them to ride the bus with the whites"?

Did they try to stress the "relative harmlessness of homosexuals"?

Did they argue that "women should actually be allowed to vote, because their voting isn't really very dangerous, in fact their levels of aggression might make for a more peaceful society and World Peace"?

I submit the unifying, moral principles of the legalization movement are these:

1) discrimination is WRONG!
2) punishing people who have inflicted no harm upon others is WRONG!

Prohibition is succesful, because they set the agenda, thereby determining what we talk about.

We must not accept that agenda.
We must not play their games.

Gil must expand his vocabulary.

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» RE: You mean abolish the ONDCP? Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: You mean abolish the ONDCP? Posted by: Malkavian
"More heat than light . . ."
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Aug 20, 2009 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another subject where there is more heat than light. How could the author possibly know the truth of many things he says? How does he know no one every died of marijuana use? Does he include all the persons killed by drivers under the influence of pot? All those who killed with a weapon or beating while "high" or otherwise un-hinged by cannabis?

Does he know how many people died of smoking marijuana laced with pesticides and herbicides that happened to be on the plants?

This is scientific nonsense, political polemic with an obvious posture. As I remarked elsewhere here, anyone who ingests anything like a drug, alcohol, or the like - something he purchased from a peddlar or "pusher" - is being stupid in the extreme.

It's bad enough that we buy produce from countries who demonstrate their contempt for human life, countries like China, but to tolerate people who encourage use of marijuana under similar conditions are at least criminal in their attitude, and probably in their actions, too.

If I ought be reported to the FBI - as one writer here insisted - for my reflections on a quote from John Stuart Mill, then this guy ought be reported, too.

Our country being what it is - that mostly on account of people like my AlterNet detractor - he, like me, is probably already a target of our fascist government.

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Which is more criminal?
Posted by: joebanana on Aug 22, 2009 5:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The pursuit of happiness, or the kidnapping, and imprisonment of someone in that pursuit. If what I do, causes no harm, or damage to others,the government hasn't got the power to deprive me of my freedom, it says so in our constitution. No where does it say the government has control over a person's lifestyle, as long as it causes no harm to others. And under just what statute does this law fall? public safety? crime prevention? personal injury? The law prohibiting it, causes these things, not pot. Food is a drug, it effects people in way's they don't realize, some people need a nap right after a certain food, some get an energy boost, some get scatter brained, and some people, food can kill, like peanut allergies, shell fish, milk, sugar MSG, some of these reactions can be far more extreme than a couple of bong rips in some people, but the government doesn't ban food. And some of the sh*t the FDA approves is a serious joke. Now, all these big-pharm corps. are trying to make a synthetic "pot" with the "therapeutic" properties, but not the "high". Think of all the millions of wasted dollars, when, all they got to do is put a seed in the ground, and apply water.

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MTS to AVI Converter
Posted by: boay on Aug 25, 2009 7:51 PM   
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MTS to AVI Converter,best MTS to avi converter

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