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Democracy and Elections

Ohio's Election Stolen Again? State May Face 600K Voter Purge in Coming Weeks

Advancement Project and Project Vote. Posted August 13, 2008.


Voting rights attorneys say hundreds of thousands of voters could be purged from voter rolls.
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Editor's note: In 2004, election integrity activists challenged the results of Ohio's presidential election before the Ohio Supreme Court, and convinced Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones (D-OH) and Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) to challenge the state's Electoral College vote before a joint session of Congress. The reaction by Ohio's then Republican-controlled Legislature was to enact a series of election reforms that punished likely Democratic voters. Some of the laws adopted were later thrown out in court, such as penalizing voter registration drives. But others, including a technical process to require certain voters to prove their registrations are valid on Election Day -- or lose their right to vote, remain in effect. Two of the nation's top voting rights groups, Advancement Project and Project Vote, this week reported 600,000 Ohio voters could be effected. This article is a combination of the releases both groups issued this week. George W. Bush beat John Kerry by nearly 119,000 votes in Ohio in 2004. -- Steven Rosenfeld, AlterNet Democracy and Elections editor.

Columbus, Ohio August 13, 2008 -- Nearly 600,000 eligible Ohio voters may be dropped from the voter rolls if Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner doesn't act to protect these voters, according to findings based on publicly available information discovered by Advancement Project and Project Vote.

These voters -- disproportionately voters of color and young voters -- are subject to being removed from Ohio's voter registration rolls without notice or a hearing because of the state's vague regulations on vote caging, a process that enables representatives of one political party to challenge the voter registration credentials of voters at polling places on Election Day.

The Ohio counties with largest numbers of returned notices prior to March 2008 Presidential Primary are Cuyahoga, Franklin, Hamilton, Lucas and Summit, where Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and Toledo are located.

The mechanism of caging or challenging voters dates back to legislation passed soon after the 2004 presidential election.

In 2005, Ohio's General Assembly introduced legislation, House Bill 3 (H.B.3) that overhauled Ohio's election system. H.B. 3, in part, requires voter information mailings and amends Ohio's challenge statute(s). In particular, it requires that 88 county boards of election mail all Ohio registered voters a non-forwardable notice 60 days before the election. Each board must compile into a list any notices that are returned as undeliverable. These lists, in turn, are available as public records to any individual or group seeking to use the list as a "caging list" to challenge voters.

The amended challenge law no longer requires the county boards to provide Ohio voters with notice that they are being removed from the voting rolls or a hearing for them to defend themselves of a challenge. Rather, the Ohio law permits the boards to review their own records and make a determination to the validity of the challenge.

This law was effective beginning 2006 and covers all primary, general, and special elections from 2006 through the November 2008 General Election. Advancement Project finds it extremely interesting, that this law "sunsets" effective January 1, 2009.

"A single returned piece of mail is not a reliable basis for challenging the right to vote," said Donita Judge, Ohio staff attorney, Advancement Project. "Mail may be returned for many reasons, including errors in the database from which the mailing is derived, errors in the mailing labels, failure to include an apartment number or poor matching criteria."


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How "Interesting"...
Posted by: grumble-bum on Aug 13, 2008 7:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, Ohio is at it again.

Not content with a damn near international reputation for disenfranchising its own voters, earned in the last Presidential election cycle, State officials have apparently decided to shoot the moon.

What gall.

Of course, Ohio isn't alone on this brave crusade towards a brave future of voter suppression. Recent changes in neighboring Indiana law have seemingly been designed to have a similar negative impact on minority & student populations.

This thirty-two year old guy pines for the innocence of childhood & the debates over redistricting. How mild & petty that archaic form of vote rigging seems, in this age of blatant, arrogant dismissal of our most basic rights.

A word to Ohio, & my former home, Indiana;

I'm not sticking up for you fuckers anymore. It looks like you really do suck.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Hmmm... Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: How "Interesting"... Posted by: KDelphi5950
» Maybe You Should Pay Attention. Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: How "Interesting"... Posted by: lively56
» RE: How "Interesting"... Posted by: greenthumb
At it Again
Posted by: Urstrly on Aug 15, 2008 4:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, now we know that the Democrats really did carry Ohio in '04, so the Republicans seem to have found a way to make sure those voters they cast out can't come back. A real catch 22. If they can't win it outright, they will always use the back door, and it seems that having a Democratic Secretary of State is of little avail.

Shame!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: At it Again Posted by: billslm
» RE: At it Again Posted by: willymack
» RE: At it Again Posted by: KDelphi5950
» RE: At it Again Posted by: KDelphi5950
» RE: At it Again Posted by: lively56
A sign of hope that offsets Ohio vote purging
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 16, 2008 2:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite efforts by the Pentagon to control photo coverage of Barack Obama when he visited our troops in Kuwait and Iraq, it was obvious that the GIs loved him.

Now. according to C-SPAN which announced the numbers yesterday, soldiers overseas are donating more money to Obama's campaign than Unfit McCain's -- by a ratio of six to one.

U-RAH!

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet [For the benefit of first-time AlterNet visitors]
Seven Reasons to Vote Against Unfit McCain

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WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO??
Posted by: DEBKAMAINE on Aug 16, 2008 4:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thank you for my biggest worry about this election. I do not run into ANY Republican who would vote for ANYTHING that resembled Bush. I know that the campaign lies will make McCain look different from the Bushite that he is. There is great number, however, that are watching closely, and I have NO doubt that Obama will win this big. I saw my town turn out for Obama earlier this year and I saw my caucus bring out a few thousand versus the usual 70. So, I have NO worry about who will win.

I am worried SICK, however, about the cheating. I just read somewhere that Rove is advising the McCain campaign, and that others of the Bush regime are in McCain's advisery committees.

The motivation is certainly FANTASTIC for this regime...they are going to be tried for war crimes, they are going to see all kinds of people come out of the woodwork. People are going to write books and many many facts are going to come to the surface, probably brining up even more proof and more need for law trials.

We allowed 2 elections to be stolen. We allowed the last one to go by and we rarely even talk about how it was stolen. We buckle under the rough and tough Republican attitude that if we talk about it, we are conspiracy theorists. OKAY, WE DON'T BUCKLE UNDER. I am stating that we have not even talked about the last stolen election.

SO..........................what are we going to do if, on the day after the election, the media does what it did, Rove does what he did..........what are we going to do if it is called for McCain?

I happen to believe that the polls are lying to us. I do not believe that there is ANY way that this is a close race. I believe that the media has used pollsters to very gradually brainwash us into believing that it is possible that McCain could win. Did we not laugh at the idea when it was new? Here was McCain telling us that the war was going to go for many years. Here he was singing "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iraq...or was it Iran?"

Anyway, I am worried..I am VERY worried. I do not believe that Obama would fold as quickly as Kerry did. I worked too damn hard for Kerry to give up as he did and I am still angry about that.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO THE DAY THAT THEY CALL THIS ELECTION FOR MC CAIN and we see people standing in line in Ohio for 7 hours and we see exit polls calling a sure win for Kerry. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO????

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?? Posted by: HoldmAccountable
» RE: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?? Posted by: madVoter
» RE: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?? Posted by: madVoter
» RE: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?? Posted by: Passacaglia
» RE: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?? Posted by: greenthumb
Michigans Primary was Rigged.
Posted by: Purple Girl on Aug 16, 2008 5:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Michigan was handed to Clinton on a silver Platter- It may happen again in Nov for Mac, so Hillary has her chance to take th eWH in 2012.If Obama wins in Nov that would eliminate Hillary's chance for one more shot at it for 8 yrs- She will not giv eup that easily (still hasn't conceded and Now has the audacity to armtwist for a roll call at the conventions- she ain't done yet)
How they Pulled it off- Date change with knowledge that it would 'invalidate' the vote- did it anyway. Then got Edwards & Obama to remove names- Hillary did not. Then media used the mantra "Clinton the only (top tier) candidate on the ballot- thus causing those who did not support her to NOT go to vote.Then 'scrambled' the names listed on the Dem Ballot- Repub ballot in my distrcit was in Alphabetical order. My Dem ballot read 'Kucinich, Clinton, Dodd,Gravel, Uncommitted'.Then these out of Alph order ballots were fed into Diebold SCAMtrons which have to be pre programmed to tally the counts correctly...Did it count any mark on the first line as a Clinton vote???
why did the Republican Sec of State Land choose to pay more for all these 'short run' ballots- costs less when all are the same. Why and How did Diebold pre program each districts SCAMtrom to read all these uniquely configured ballots- and Why did Land pay extra for such work to be done? Or did she?
Why did Levin and most other dems in this state push for this Date change when they knew it would cause our Primary to be 'Not counted'. why did they not care the media was misrepresenting the number of candidates on the ballot (allowing a suppression of Dem voters).Why did they not care that the Dem ballot was 'scrambled'. Why did they not reconfirm the machines were able to differentiate between the various ballot styles? Why did they not care when I wrote them about my concerns. Why did they not even care about the additional cost to US for these numerous ballot styles and tech costs???
Because they wanted Hillary to Win. Levin is chair to The Armed Service Com- which Both Hillary & Mac are members.Same committee who failed to provide Oversight of Our military use, mission, Troop requirements, equipment needs, after care and allowed Private contractors to be used in place of Our military personnel (In No Bid contract agreements)
Why would Michigan be a 'Win' for Mac- because these 'Democrats' are working on the same Team. Willing to give Mac his Four yr term with the guarantee in '12 Hillary takes the 'Gold'.
Had Edwards been on the ballot- he would have taken the 'White male Union worker' votes. If Obama was on the Ballot he would have bet him with the liberal and minority vote. Hillary
would would have been blown out entirely.
Which Michigan- it won't be Just the 'Republicans' stealing it - it will be the 'Dems' handing it to them....both in this state work for the Corps- Big 3, the Pusher for the Oil Corps.
Cheney Corp and Clinton Corp are the same entity just flying differnet color flags They Have STOLEN!Same as the Corps over seas have done to US as camoflgue for their immoral & unethical business practices, leaving US the sitting Ducks!
Fuck these Corporationist in both parties...DIVIDE & CONQUER THEM AS THEY DID US- FROM WITHIN.

OBAMA/HAGEL '08

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» RE: Michigans Primary was Rigged. Posted by: KDelphi5950
Its as American as apple pie
Posted by: citizenjoe on Aug 16, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republicans do it; Democrats do it -- and no one is going to stop it. So now the Republicans are more outrageous than the Democrats-- look the system is broken and Obama is not going to fix it. So learn to live with it-- now the Republicans have become a fascist party, so the new fascists do it and win, maybe. Hey its as American as apple pie. --Joe

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REVOLT!
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Aug 16, 2008 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sick and tired of hearing about Ohio's corrupt election practices. Rather than diddle about it in equally corrupt courtrooms and a controlled legislature, has it occured to the disenfranchised voters to revolt and overthrow their corrupt governance? A few burnings and body bags worked damned fine in the 1960s and we are not so far removed from "burn baby burn" to witness its reincarnation. In my view, its overdue and the only recourse left to Americans that want to take back their rightful heritage of constitutional governance. I'm off base or too rad? Bullshit. What the hell do you think the basis is for the right to bear arms [US Constitution, Amendment 2]!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» let's be clear Posted by: jeffreytaos
» RE: let's be clear.... Posted by: sasquuatch55
» the right to bear arms Posted by: jeffreytaos
» RE: VOLT! Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: VOLT! Posted by: Ambercat
» RE: VOLT! Posted by: jeandarc
» Use to revolt, now I just Vomit! Posted by: common intelligence
not to be televised
Posted by: jeffreytaos on Aug 16, 2008 6:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the revolution will not be televised. A few things from the sixties did nothing but derail the true message of peace and love. Remember we were in a war, so the message of Peace had resounding meaning, it was not a joke. Love had meaning too, as it echoed the words of a Christ figure who stated we should try to love each other, thus the bumper sticker "make Love, Not War" The ethos of the sixties is alive and well my friend. What's dead is any desire to overthrow anything. The understanding of Zen would engage your mind to think of how all things pass, like the ebb and flow of the ocean. A televised flag burning does little to organize the people, to educate the masses, or to find legitamate ways of preserving our democracy. It is a democracy, my friend. We now have very specific laws against terror at home and abroad. I reccomned you consi=der these laws before encouraging our anxious youth to actions they would likely regret. Last, the enemy of the sixties was the infiltrator, the one who spied on behalf of the government against the organizations that worked for true social change and non-violence. To the youth, stand by your moral high ground, and the dark ships will pass in the night, a new dawn will bring the light of reason. We won't wait 500 years for the dark age to pass, it will pass in a short time, as educated people are the real threat to the dictators of this world.

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SO WHERE THE HELL ARE THE DEMOCRATS?
Posted by: Phred42 on Aug 16, 2008 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They only way that the Dems can ignore this is if they are the Silent Partners of the Neocons.

They have had 2 years - ..... nothing

If the Dems allow another Election to be stolen They will be a complete laughing stock and only the really lame-brained will support them

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I'm tired of hearing about this crap
Posted by: NotNeoCon on Aug 16, 2008 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right to vote is a Constitutional right afforded to all American citizens in good standing. For those that are disenfranchised (unfairly kept from voting), and then refuse to take matters in their own hands, shame of you. You are a low life, and afraid to defend the Constitution. How about some good old fashion ass kicking to send the message that you're not accepting this shit? In my mind the act of disentrancing a lawful citizen from voting is a more serious crime that kicking the perpetrator’s ass!

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Riddle Me This...
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Aug 16, 2008 8:19 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a college student and If I live in Kentucky and is register to vote in Kentucky however I attend school in Akron Ohio and I also register to vote, should I be allowed to "vote twice"?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: iddle Me This... Posted by: weenie
» RE: riddle Me This... Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: iddle Me This... Posted by: HoldmAccountable
» In New York State Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: iddle Me This... Posted by: BlackbirdHighway
Why?
Posted by: lamac66 on Aug 16, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it so hard for Dems to get ahead and stay on top of this? Repubs are dilegent when looking after processes that benefit them. It's unbelievable.

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» Dems are on top of it Posted by: Ambercat
» Why? AND THE ANSWER IS .........PELOSI Posted by: common intelligence
Can you say (p)Resident McCain?
Posted by: HoldmAccountable on Aug 16, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, here we go again - AND it's been done similarly in New Mexico, and Colorado. Here in AZ we are fighting like hell to get control of these black box voting machines (the wholesale stealing of elections) AND voter registration dumping (the retail stealing of elections). WHY is this not on the front page of the so called "Liberal media"??
I KNOW this next election will be stolen, as were at least 40 seats in the 2006 midterm elections which would have given the democrats a VETO PROOF MAJORITY! Why does the corporate media ignore the most important issue of all? And why would Obama ignore this issue? He "lost" the N.H. primary - and that was probably stolen too!
So, unless someone has the guts to stand up and CONTEST THE VOTE, we'd be better off living in Ukraine where the people REVOLTED, went on STRIKE said NO, wore orange to be in solidarity- and changed the outcome of the "election".
THIS IS WHAT WE MUST BE WORKING ON- because until we have the right to have our vote count as we intend it - we are slaves to this unelected government, and can change nothing!!

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Hey, all...FYI, I'm an Ohioan and
Posted by: mobilone on Aug 16, 2008 1:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a very progressive, even radical Dem. I worked the Kerry-Edwards campaign in Cincinnati, and as a pollworker in the 2007 and 2008 (primary) elections. So much for my bona fides...
Here's the story on registrations in Ohio. If you haven't voted in the last two Presidentials, 8 years, you are automatically removed...purged. In spring 2008, there were about 7.8 million voters registered. I believe registrations run about 80-85% of eligible (over 18) Ohioans. This purging standard applies to all, no party issues here.
County BoE's mail a card to the individual's last known postal address, to remind them to make sure that their registration is at their current postal address. It's up to the individual to be responsible for keeping their registration current. In Ohio, you can check this online in most counties or at the Sec. of State's website, or a phone call in smaller counties which don't have a full website. I can't fault the BoE's here.
If a card is returned to the BoE by the USPS as undeliverable, the BoE's can purge that voter as not a legally registered voter, The rethugs especially have used this to convince BoE's to remove these names. In the case of members of the armed forces who are away from home and could not receive their card, the rethugs have used this to remove them, without thorough follow-up. This was especially prevalent in the South, which has a higher proportion of military than the rest of the country.
HOWEVER, there needs to be a follow up, SOME method, to assure that every eligible voter who wants to be, or thinks they are, registered, IS. This is very labor intensive, and in an era of cell phones, non-published land lines, people moving around, last name changes due to marriage or divorce, college students moving to campuses "out of town," it is a true struggle for BoE's to assure that every eligible voter is correctly registered.
So 600,000 is less than 8% of all registrations here in Ohio, IMO not out of line considering deaths, moving, name changes, etc. This is key to understanding the raw numbers when not all the factors are adequately explained in news releases.
The very best thing YOU can do, IMHO, is to ask everyone you know, whether at work, friends, casual contacts, whatever, to make SURE their registration is current. It's the individual's CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY.
In Ohio, last day to register for this year's general is Oct 6 (30 days before election day.) In Ohio, due to the wording in a rethug-written law (a few years back) there is a brief period this year from Sept 30-Oct 6 when one can both register AND vote on the same day. Of course, the BoE has to determine that your address is legally accurate, etc. for your vote to be counted. There will likely be some problems during that week...
The key thing is: every year, EVERYONE needs to check if their OWN registration is current and accurate. Pass it on!

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Different in Seattle!
Posted by: asjogren on Aug 16, 2008 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The process in King County, WA is incredibly rigorous, secure, and designed to facilitate everyone's vote.

I just finished training as a Poll Worker and Supervisor. I tried to find holes in the process which would enable tampering with the vote - I failed. And I used to try to break software for a living! The process designers did a fantastic job.

The only way I could think of to circumvent the system would be for a malicious party to manufacture identification cards for registered voters who they know WILL NOT show. So perhaps the only hole would be to fraudulently vote for someone who died within the last few weeks.

Besides accuracy and security, our job as Poll Workers is to facilitate the vote. Anomalies result in allowing a Provisional Ballot. So - someone who votes mail-in AND in-person gets a Provisional Ballot in-person. The post process catches this. Someone who votes in his home precinct AND a second will get a Provisional Ballot in his non-home precinct. Again, the post processing of Provisional Ballots catches the duplication. And son, and son on...

Someone who votes a Provisional Ballot gets a stub with a number. They can check by phone or by the Internet to see what happened to their ballot no later than the following Monday.

In addition to the published voter roles, the County prints a list of post-publishing changes. Every effort is made to allow someone to vote.

What a difference from what is written here about Ohio!

Elections CAN be secure, accurate, and widely enfranchising.

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Henry Green
Posted by: Truelass on Aug 16, 2008 4:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Canadian I am no longer shocked by the stories I read on American voting practices. Corruption and swindling, denying Rights and Liberties to makes a mockery of the possibility of Fair Elections in the US. Sending observers overseas to monitor the fairness of elections seems ironical when they are coming from a country that has never understood the meaning of democracy inside its own borders. When will the American people start to challenge the two old line parties with the same interests and just smarten up?

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» RE: Henry Green Posted by: binkey
» We need to act in solidarity. Posted by: greenthumb
Will the Right Steal the Election Again?
Posted by: macdon1 on Aug 16, 2008 7:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then most people will accept the lame explanations offered by the media? If it happens:
1.dig up your yard and plant food crops so you won't starve when the economy collapses
2.build a big fence around your house to keep out marauders and hope Blackwater doesn't come to your neighborhood
3.bend over and kiss your a.. goodbye

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Campaign news Ohioans should consder: Unfit McCain plays the POW card -- AGAIN!
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 16, 2008 8:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During a speaker's forum featuring Barack Obama and John McCain in Lake Forest, California, hosted by Rev. Rick Warren on August 15, 2008, the Arizona senator played his well-worn POW card several times.

On one occasion, he described being tortured by the North Vietnamese. In his 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, McCain said the torture took place in an enemy prison camp called "The Plantation."

On March 25, 1999, two POWs, Ted Guy and Gordon Larson, told the Phoenix New Times that they could not guarantee McCain had been tortured before his interrogations.

Said Larson to the New Times, “Between the two of us, it is our belief, and to the best of our knowledge, that no prisoner was beaten or harmed physically in that camp [The Plantation]. My only contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The Plantation, to the best of my knowledge and Ted’s, he was not physically abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp that people were released from.”

In 2005, the late great war hero, Colonel David Hackworth, a popular TV guest commentator who received 78 combat awards, including the Distinguished Service Cross, Silver Star, Bronze Star and eight Purple Hearts during Korean and Vietnam conflicts, wrote the following about McCain:

Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of
the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings,
torture, broken limbs--all inflicted during
savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was
a witness to these accounts. A former POW
says, “No man witnessed another man during
interrogations. We relied on each other to
tell the truth when a man was returned to his
cell.”

The United States Navy says two eyewitnesses
are required for any award of heroism. But
for the valor awards McCain received, there
were no eyewitnesses, less himself and his
captors.


Col. Hackworth ended his article with:

McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war
hero by conventional standards, but rather a
tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying
the war hero card.


During Rev. Warren's speaking forum, McCain was asked about his greatest test of courage. Again playing the POW card, he said it was when the North Vietnamese offered to release him early and he turned it down.

Col. Hackworth addressed that issue as well in his article by asserting:

McCain refused an early release. An act of
valor? Three former POWs told me he was
ordered to turn it down by his American POW
commander and he “just followed orders.


Hackworth didn't state the obvious, that had McCain violated his POW commander's order and gone back to the United States early, he would have humiliated his family and ruined his Navy career.

To Vietnam veterans who know about the senator's REAL war record, he is a traitor who gave up military secrets in return for hot coffee, cigarettes and other special favors from the enemy. For that reason, the North Vetnamese contemptuously nicknamed him "Songbird." Some Vietnam vets call him the "Manchurian Candidate."

Most certainly, rather than a principled patriot, Songbird McCain is a pandering politician who will say anything to win an election. Unfortunatey for freedom-loving Americans, the war hero charade will probably work.

Get ready for another four years of absolute rightwing Republican misery.


Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran (for the benefit of new AlterNet visitors)
Seven reasons to vote against Unfit McCain

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Here's an idea: LETS DO SOMETHING!!!!
Posted by: madVoter on Aug 16, 2008 8:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I posted this under a different comment on the same page. If anyone has a chance, check out my page. I haven't started anything yet, but I'm looking for people to contribute.

The voting system in this country is a FARCE. I have already donated to places to help fix this, but no one will let me know what I can do individually. I spent 10 minutes putting this site up:

http://americansagainstvoterfraud.wordpress.com/

Just check it out. Let me know what you think.

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LETS DO SOMETHING!
Posted by: madVoter on Aug 16, 2008 8:47 PM   
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Anyone want to contribute, to the site:

http://americansagainstvoterfraud.wordpress.com

reply to this post!

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The better question
Posted by: Passacaglia on Aug 17, 2008 7:16 AM   
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The better question is What are YOU going to do about it? When people are lumped together, nothing really ever gets done. It is the "by committee" syndrome.

I have checked out the Voter Fraud site posted by madvoter and when I'm satisfied it is taken seriously, I will too and donate. I see no comments other than my own there.

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If Obama doesn’t pick Hillary for his running mate, he will lose Ohio and more.
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 17, 2008 9:50 AM   
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I couldn’t help feeling alarmed after watching the August 15 speakers’ forum hosted by Rev. Rick Warren that featured McCain and Barack Obama.

Going first, McCain answered questions by Rev. Warren that were supposedly kept secret before the evening event. As reported by the Los Angeles Times, McCain “had the easier task in the back-to-back interviews before about 2,800 members of the evangelical church in Lake Forest. He drew frequent applause with crisp answers intended to reinforce his conservative credentials.”

“McCain, an Episcopalian who attends a Baptist church in Phoenix, has frequently been criticized by evangelical leaders for failing to speak as openly about his faith as Obama and for relying on well-worn stories about how he found God as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. He did not diverge from that practice Saturday night.”

When asked about abortion, according to the L.A. Times, “McCain immediately responded that a baby's rights begin at conception. Perhaps seeking to tamp down alarm among conservatives over his recent comment that he's open to a running mate who favors abortion rights, he continued: ‘I will be a pro-life president, and this presidency will have pro-life policies.’"

McCain’s uncompromising position on abortion should worry women who believe in choice -- Democrats, Republicans and independents. It so happens they were Hillary’s core constituency in the primary elections. No one can better represent their interests than Senator Clinton.

If Obama chooses someone else for his running mate, he will pass up the opportunity of winning over the 18 million Americans who voted for Hillary in the primaries. In that case, Barack will lose to Unfit McCain and our national rightwing Republican nightmare will continue.


Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran (for the benefit of new AlterNet visitors)
Seven reasons to vote against McCain

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THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION (FEC) IS CONTROLLED BY THE BUSH
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Aug 17, 2008 12:41 PM   
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administration. Do you suppose that they will find any flaw in all of this? The republicans have the power and they are going to use it to try to keep it. They say that they don't believe in democracy. At that point they surely aren't liars.

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This is why we need...
Posted by: Quannah on Aug 17, 2008 3:24 PM   
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a Constitutional Amendment GUARANTEEING us the Right to Vote.

This is the only way the Republics can win, and they are gonna milk it for all it's worth because they know the laws are going to change as soon as the new Congress is sworn in in January, 2009.

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The problems Pelosi. But we can affect Ohio's lean to the Right.
Posted by: common intelligence on Aug 17, 2008 5:00 PM   
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SHE is the biggest foot dragger in congress,

I have heard her say that the game plan is to not "divide" the country but to bring it together. HELL,( she alienates the the democrates themselves.)

As well that game plan is to first GETcontrol of congress and the Executive Branch, there fore bagging "it".

ALL this before the DEMS drop the hammer.

That there by supposedly meaning to Really initiate the so called real change into the Government. But I ask, "change what?"

There are rumors that a new 911 investigation would insue as well as bringing charges against the Bush machine, out side of the envelope of Impeachment. Of course you know she's full of shit no matter what the rumors or real intentions are.

Now put this in your pipe and smoke it.....You've all noticed gas prices are dropping. Right?

Of course, just prior to the election. IT happened just before the 2004 election too. It's the end of summer and everyone is needed to "lighten up". Congress is in recess and people are being bombarded withreasons to vote from both parties.

Well now watch what happens after the election.
Regardless of who gets elected the price is going right back up. But it'll be blamed on Russia! Of course. It's the old bat and switch reapplied to distract and redirect the attention of the masses.

Any way you loo at this whole friggin country, "my fellow Americans " of the former nation, we people are being played.

In short, the men behind the curtain of illusion have set the stage to appear to resemble this election as a Democratic process.

And if a state like OHIO has all this control over the bottom line than the election is a fraud in every sense of the word.

In the state of California where I reside I have set letters to suppiers of products that are manufactured in Ohio that, " until you state changes it's republican bent preferences I will not buy anything from that state!".

Manufacturing in that state is huge. If people in other states refuse to by products from OHIO it can have an affect.
Those of us in business can buy products from other states. LIke Kitchen cabinets that come from Kraftmade®, made in Ohio. STOP IT.
I now buy from Oregon.

Consumers have a respossibility to inquire as to the source of products they buy, and even the shippers that deliver the products. Then vote accordingly!

SO I've done what I can.
What will you do?

But then do you really think it matters what the fuck we want or do has any affect? I don't really, but I make a gawd damn effort!

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This needs national coverage
Posted by: Jeanne on Aug 18, 2008 5:29 PM   
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It also needs for Ohio citizens to speak out and act out on assuring the rights of its citizens to vote. I don't think any of the above (coverage, speaking out, action) are likely. Americans are living in denial. We are told we have the greatest democracy in the world, and yet, when elections are tampered with repeatedly, we simply repeat the homily, "...the greatest democracy, the greatest democracy, the greatest democracy." What dopes.

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» Not everyone is asleep. Posted by: greenthumb
This post is only for independent thinking, objective, and rational readers.
Posted by: EagleX on Aug 18, 2008 6:48 PM   
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It is apparent that the Left is the main instigators of voter fraud. Note that the following small sample of Democrat voting fraud is from non-aligned or Left leaning sources:

Acorn fraud reported by CBSNews


Acorn fraud rampant, albeit ignored by the fringers on Alternet.



Misuse of taxpayer dollars and corruption from Acorn


Felony charges against Acorn associates in Washington


Disturbing developments in Nevada


Cheating in PA


But do the Alternet fringe really care if US voting rights and our Constitution is being undermined?

Yes, but only if the abuse runs counter to their fringe ideological beliefs, otherwise bring it (voter fraud) on!

I also guarantee that none of the rabid automatons who are lockstep haters of all things conservative irrespective of fact and logic will never conduct objective research into voter fraud from all parties, they will only focus on small snippets of selective data that "confirm" their flawed interpretation of reality

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You don't know anything
Posted by: Romans1 on Aug 19, 2008 9:47 AM   
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I've been on a board of elections and you don't know what you're talking about. Ohio, like all states has at least 600,000 invalid registrations. People change addresses etc. and don't keep their voter information current. Voter rolls should be purged to prevent voter fraud, the specialty of Democrats.

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Bd. of Elections keeps cheating
Posted by: KDelphi5950 on Aug 19, 2008 2:20 PM   
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Sure, Ohio was stolen in 2004--caging, challenging--I saw it aLL.But the "party of the peopel" should have the Rust Belt in a landslide--and you dont. The DNC KNEW Ohio was stolen in 2004 and did NOTHING.When Strickland tries to explain it to you, he is a "redneck"--well, go find some progressive in Georgia. And Obama offers NOTHING to people newly impoverished in the mIdwest. It didnt help that his robots called/wrote/emailed everywhere , talking about how "stupid, white trash" the Rust Belt was--if the Dems lose this election, after 8 yrs of neo-cons--Youd do better to look in the mirror instead of Ohio. If ONE STATE could throw off this election--you need to disband. The DNC has screwed up again. Blame it on anything you like--if you would LISTEN you would know what the truth was--I'm sick of working for a party that doesn twork for me--I've been a Dem all mylife, except when I left to vote Socialist--I'm going back.Blame it on race, if you like--its not true. At least, not in Ohio. Stupid? Maybe...are you smart enough to win an election without the Clintons?? We'll see...Oh, Ive got an MS--Cum Laude. I just dont talk about it al the time. Why dont you nominate someone who is not an Ivy League Blue Blood or Blue dog for a change?

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