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Democracy and Elections

Why the Antiwar Movement Can't Budge the Dems to Leave Iraq

By David Sirota, Crown Publishing. Posted June 5, 2008.


If the anti-war movement can't find a way to hold Dem politicians accountable, then don't expect anything more than the status quo.
2003968309244839153fs
david sirota: the uprising
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The following is an adapted excerpt from David Sirota's new book, "The Uprising: An Unauthorized Tour of the Populist Revolt Scaring Wall Street and Washington" (Crown Publishing, 2008). It first appeared in In These Times.

The nationwide opposition to the Iraq War is based on a host of populist impulses. Some people hate it because they think lives are being sacrificed to pursue the oil industry's agenda. Some despise it because, without a military draft, the U.S. casualties -- 4,000-plus and counting -- are disproportionately working-class kids. Still others abhor the war because it drains scarce resources away from pressing priorities at home. And yet, despite this groundswell of antiwar sentiment, the campaign to stop the war is adrift and dysfunctional.

On the one side are groups like United for Peace and Justice, that head what progressive activist Matt Stoller has deemed "The Protest Industry" -- a clan "made up of those who decided that participation in the system was immoral" because they "have seen 'compromise' many times before and think they know where it leads."

At Protest Industry rallies against the war in Iraq, you will find no effort to hone a basic message. You will see a sea of signs demanding (1) the end to a war with Iran that hasn't happened, (2) the impeachment of President George W. Bush, (3) the arrest of Vice President Dick Cheney, (4) the elimination of the death penalty, or (5) the overthrow of the U.S. government by Maoists who reason that the "world can't wait to drive out the Bush regime."

These demonstrations are boisterous but ephemeral displays whose chaos and lack of message reinforce a self-defeating fringe image.

On the other side of the antiwar movement is a group of organizations and apparatchiks that have launched an operation called Americans Against Escalation in Iraq (AAEI) -- a coalition of mainly Washington, D.C.-based advocacy groups, pooling cash and staff for "a major, multimillion dollar national campaign to oppose the president's 'surge' proposal to escalate the war in Iraq," as its website says.

Within the uprising against the war in Iraq, AAEI and its allies are the "professional" side of the antiwar effort. Consider them The Players.

The Players imagine that the war will end not after a massive investment in long-term, on-the-ground local organizing against war, but by the short-term coordination of a few elite actors -- political consultants, donors, politicians and maybe one or two organization heads -- in front of a map of media markets and congressional districts.

The Players make their moves with campaign contributions, TV spots and PR campaigns -- the conventional weapons in a media war -- and they are playing their game in Washington for Washington. In contrast to the Protest Industry, they believe the only way to effect change is to play an inside game.

Hollywood for ugly people

Media coverage is currency in the nation's capital. There, celebrities are people like Washington Post columnist David Broder, MSNBC's Chris Matthews and Time magazine's Joe Klein -- people known to almost no one in the country at large.

Within the Beltway, however, they are influential celebrities because they appear on obscure chat shows, from C-SPAN's "Washington Journal" to Fox News' "Special Report" to MSNBC's "Hardball."

Our nation's capital has become Hollywood for ugly people.

Washington's self-absorbed fetishization of tiny-audience TV shows might be funny -- except that the Iraq War was largely started because of this closed-circuit media obsession.

In the march to war, neoconservatives, like The Weekly Standard's William Kristol, staked out beachheads on Fox News sets, while so-called liberal hawks, like The New Republic's former editor Peter Beinart, dug trenches in CNN studios. These pundits established support for the war as a criterion of political respectability and a mark of worthiness for media access.

Now, out in the real world, beyond the confines of the TV studios, it's all gone to shit -- all of it. The American public -- which was ambivalent about supporting the unilateral invasion -- is now firmly opposed to continuing the conflict.

Many of Washington's pro-war TV "celebrities" are trying to flee their previously televised warmongering. Klein of Time magazine, for instance, appeared on CNBC a month before the Iraq invasion to state, "War may well be the right decision at this point -- in fact, I think it probably is." By 2007, he claimed with a straight face, "I've been opposed to the Iraq War ever since 2002."

In light of this, The Players believe that by funneling money into organizations like AAEI, pulling PR stunts and putting attack ads on television against pro-war legislators in Congress, they can make this antiwar uprising successful without organizing millions of Americans into a cohesive long-term movement. They believe, in short, that if a war can be started because of Washington's obsession with television, it can be ended because of that same obsession.

Washington's rules

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See more stories tagged with: iraq, democrats, david sirota, the uprising

David Sirota is a senior editor at In These Times and a bestselling author whose newest book, “The Uprising,” will be released in May 2008. He is a fellow at the Campaign for America’s Future and a board member of the Progressive States Network—both nonpartisan organizations. His blog is at http://www.credoaction.com/sirota.

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Why the Antiwar Movement Can't Budge the Dems to Leave Iraq
Posted by: jporter on Jun 5, 2008 1:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a crock. Our Congress has no financial paybacks for getting us out of Iraq now. However, if one cared for the States of this United Union, we would be out of Iraq now. It is my opinion that you have each soldier in this combat area, in fact all Middle Eastern areas, lay down his/her rifle and get on the next airplane headed for America. Leave all gear and supplies to the Iraqis. Most of it does not work for us, so it will not work for them. Notify all mercinary contractors that we are leaving NOW and they should do the same. It is their call, not ours. This is how you end the war now and I would have no bad feeling for doing it this way. Look at all the lives and money we would save. Take care of America first.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sorry, I disagree Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Sorry, I disagree Posted by: adp3d
» RE: Sorry, I disagree Posted by: progdem
» Great Comment Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Sorry, I disagree Posted by: progdem
» Lets see the evidence. Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Lets see the evidence. Posted by: motamanx
» What? Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: What? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: What? Posted by: Libsrule
» Stop being a wheenie Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Stop being a wheenie Posted by: progdem
» Stop being a wheenie Posted by: robbie.seal
» Yep, America first - what a notion! Posted by: carbon-based
Obama has been against the war from day one
Posted by: foreverhope on Jun 5, 2008 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Barack Obama was opposed to the war in Iraq from day one, before we invaded, even while he was running for the Senate, and knowing his opposition might be politically unpopular.

“I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world and strengthen the recruitment arm of al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.”

Barack Obama, 2002

Barack Obama is the only candidate running for president who voted against using cluster bombs in Iraq and the only candidate who supports banning the use of landmines.

The war CAN'T go on, we are running out of cannon fodder, our National Debt is rising by FIVE THOUSAND $$$$$$$ per second. No one is asking McPAIN how he will pay for his never-ending war, or where he will find bodies to fight it. We couldn't leave when it was 'bad', but now the 'surge' is supposedly 'working', things are 'better', now we are 'winning'?

On the other hand, we MUST NOT allow our dovish values cloud our judgement. We need a strong defense.

Once commited, to say war is very complicated would be a gross understatement. GWB went into Iraq with a hacksaw and drill. As Obama has said, we need to be just as careful extracting troops from Iraq as GWB was reckless and careless in committing them to war.

I don't EXPECT, I don't even WANT, Obama to explain exactly what he will do or how he will end this war, although he has outlined a plan. That is why we elect a president, to make those decisions, after thoughtful deliberation, with the right advise. A president with integrity, character, courage and good judgement, leadership abilities, a commander-in-chief.

However, I do EXPECT once in office, and with the right advise, an exit strategy will be developed, it is being developed now, to begin safely bringing our soldiers home as soon as possible. Obama has outlined a method to do that and has commited himself to it publicly FROM DAY ONE. Obama is the ONLY candidate that has talked about the improving the conditions of our veterans.

The exit strategy should also include whatever needs to be done to rebuild Iraq, without military occupation. We need to care properly for our returning soldiers, their conditions are deplorable.

Our military needs to be rebuilt too, thanks to GWB it is a mess, everything is a mess. God help President Obama and this country.

I am to the left of Ghandi, literally, I took a test once.

HOWEVER, ALTHOUGH I DON'T WANT A HAWK FOR PRESIDENT, I DEFINATELY WANT TO BE SMART AND OUR COUNTRY TO BE PROTECTED.

I have every confidence Barack Obama has the ability to bring some sort of logical end to GWB's war madness ASAP and begin moving our country in a better direction, restoring the rule of law and our Constitution. Our Constituion, which as been repeatedly raped by GWB/CHENEY.

President Obama will desperately be needing the push, shove and influence of the anti-war protesters. GET OUT THERE! Barack can't do it on his own, he needs Congress, he needs all of us. They, Congress, need to hear our collective voices. Don't vote and think your job is done. It won't happen over night, but with our help Barack can make the rest listen and, I have no doubts, with Barack's leadership, and our help, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN and EVERYTHING CAN CHANGE!

Yes we can

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» You are correct Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: You are correct, not Posted by: Lauren
» Not sure who you are? Posted by: robbie.seal
» I will watch him Posted by: foreverhope
Yabba-dabba-doo
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jun 5, 2008 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Ralph Nader so correctly opined in the runup to the 2000 election..."there is no difference between the Republican and Democratic parties." Amen. As we approach yet another national fiasco in November, name one blogger that is seeking elective office or will have sufficient input to influence any outcome. McCain is right....we're in Iraq to stay and while Bush negotiates such permanence with the lapdog "government," the politicians spout more yabba-dabba-doo and Americans wonder what the hell happened to Mayberry.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Yabba-dabba-doo Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Yabba-dabba-doo Posted by: Col. Jackleg
» RE: Yabba-dabba-doo Posted by: motamanx
Obama sides with the Israeli - Saudi axis in the Middle East...
Posted by: non-person on Jun 5, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The WHO said it best, didn't they?

From Al Jazeera today:

Arabs shocked by Obama speech

Arab leaders have reacted with anger and disbelief to an intensely pro-Israeli speech delivered by Barack Obama, the US Democratic presumptive presidential nominee.

Obama told the influential annual policy conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Council (Aipac): "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided."

His comments appalled Palestinians who see occupied East Jerusalem as part of a future Palestinian state.

Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator, told Al Jazeera on Thursday: "This is the worst thing to happen to us since 1967 ... he has given ammunition to extremists across the region".

"What really disppoints me is that someone like Barack Obama, who runs a campaign on the theme of change - when it comes to Aipac and what's needed to be said differently about the Palestinian state, he fails."

here's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
.

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Obama's Nom is Only the beginning of the End Of Neo CONs
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 5, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As 26 yr Voting Dem from MI I have had enough of the BS rhetoric of those Claiming allegeince to MY Party for the last 4 decades.We got rid of the Racist Dixie Crats' i tis now time to exorcise Ourselves of the Neo Cons in Blue.
Obama is Not the Threat to these covert operatives (DLC and their enablers)It is US old School Dems who have reused to buy into their CON. Why is it No DLC'er has been able to 'Seal the Deal' with the Base since '92 (Hillary) - because we could smell their Corp Whore Stench a mile away.With or With Our Obama we will end this Reign of Terror Perpetuated by the neo CONs comflagued in Red and BLUE! I intend to not only Run the Placators/Appeasers In Blue out of My State, I will be pushing for Prosecutions for these Treasonous acts which have brought My Great state to It's Knees. So Beware of the use of the Term 'Expereince' it is a Confession to your crimes.Michigan felt the last 'oil Crisis' - We demanded new fuel effeciient vehicles to end the ME Oil reliance and subservience. But we were Ignored and Blocked intentionally so the Big 3 could continue to line their Pockets with Blood Money. I lay the Hostage Crisis, both 'Oil Crisis' and 9/11 at the door step of the Big 3 and their co conspirators in the Oil industry, and of course their minions who seized Public office. I consider their actions over the last 35 yrs to constitute Treason, crimes against Humantiy and ultimatlely War Crimes. They placed US and Our citizens in harms way to further their Own profit margins and Power Internationally .they ahve Spit on My ancestors graves who gave their blood sweat and tears to build those companies from Garage Hobbies to Multinational Corps. And what have they given back in return- they haveundermined the middleclass, seized our economy, spilled our blood and traded their allegience to foreign 'royals'

Cave Adsum MI and national 'Public' Servants there is not just be a 'pink slip' but a Indictment awaiting YOU!

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» A good example Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: A good example Posted by: Lauren
» Yes, they are Posted by: robbie.seal
Well gee whiz. The answer is so friggin' simple.
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT on Jun 5, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People like the author will continue to keep supporting the Democratic Party BLINDLY despite their blatant disregard for their base. And to top it off, here's a perfect review of the book and the author itself from the candidate he keeps ignoring on his blog no matter how many times he gets asked about him:

http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/06/03/the-uprising/

And yeah, I and several others got banned from his blog for blindly supporting Obama all the while giving true progressives such as Nader no relevancy whatsoever.

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Great Article
Posted by: robbie.seal on Jun 5, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though I do not agree with everything this author says, I may read the book, just to see how much more I do or don't agree with.

Look at the pieces to the puzzle of why the anti-war movement is not succeeding as it could.

1) You have the professional anti-war movement folks who will put aside their objective in order to win a seat... even if the person they are pushing isn't really anti-war. You have those who will promise you everything to get into that seat or keep it, but once in the seat will do whatever needs to be done to keep it.

2) You have the totally dedicated anti-war folks who will never lay their objective aside for expediency. The only problem is the number that go overboard and scream for mass trials, bomb recruiting stations, tell mothers of fallen soldiers their sons/daughters were murderers... Those people drive away the mainstream American.

Your mainstream Americans and many of your military do not support this war, but they shy away from those who go overboard like they would a maggot filled carcass. If you want the bulk of our society to see your point, you need to stop giving them reasons to turn away from you.

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» RE: Great Article Posted by: Lauren
» Then pull your head out... Posted by: robbie.seal
» Great Comment Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Then pull your head out... Posted by: Bastet62
» You're an idiot Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Great Article (?) Posted by: oregoncharles
» Good Point Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Great Article Posted by: vivachavez
» I'd love to Posted by: robbie.seal
dick
Posted by: rtmyth on Jun 5, 2008 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are no party distinctions, only the power elite and the masses. The power elite want continuous war, and since they are in control, we, the masses, will pay the costs. Only an organized, vigorous protest by the masses can bring about change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: dick Posted by: Dboy
Oh David - you just don't get it
Posted by: Bastet62 on Jun 5, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, as a person who would definitely like to see the Bush regime driven out I AM NOT A MAOIST! I never will be unless forced to! I am a registered democrat AND a member of World Can't Wait - Drive Out the Bush Regime, AND I still believe that the Constitution of the U.S. is a damn good document. What draws people to World Can't Wait is its "Call", a call signed by THOUSANDS including many celebrities and other famous people and I can guarantee you that they are also NOT MAOISTS! The call of World Can't Wait has been eerily prescient in the fact that it long ago stated the logical trajectory of where the Bush regime was/is headed, and this regime has more than surpassed the fears of many - we have all been shocked and awed by the savageness of the Bush regime, a regime which has gone even beyond what we could have imagined a few short years ago. The large amount of protesters in the streets, while I agree that they are not unified in their messages, shows that this gov't no longer represents the people and the people in their anger and frustration at the lack of representation have taken to the streets - a movement that I believe will continue to grow. After the election frenzy has died down, and it becomes clear that the next president will continue most if not all of the same Bush agenda, the streets will be filled w/even more of these "boisterous but ephemeral displays" which in their "chaos" may lead to the very changes so necessary to not only save this country, but the planet too!

It is Main Stream media and others like Sirota here who continue to marginalize the will of the people! It is they who perpetuate the "fringe" myth of who the protesters are and what they're about. These "fringe" protesters are made up of YOUR NEIGHBORS, FRIENDS, and FAMILY. They are IRAQ VETS, SOLDIERS, GRANDPARENTS, PARENTS, and YOUTH - they are AMERICANS!!!!!!

Go to worldcantwait.org and READ THE CALL and see if you aren't compelled to add your signature!

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The Democrats are a Pro-war party.
Posted by: oregoncharles on Jun 5, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you think they were lying when they said they supported the war?

Anyone over 50 can tell you, because they remember the Vietnam War. I'm 62, and I remember it really well: it wasn't Republicans that got us into the Vietnam War, but it was a Republican who (reluctantly) got us out. Nixon was a bad man and a dangerous president; but he got us out of the war, because, in the end, he had to.

The strategy Sirota is advocating amounts to picking around the edges. Does anyone see any sign that it's working? 60 new anti-war Reps (by his count, in another post), a clear mandate, and the Party's policy remains iron-clad.

So go after them, yes, but do it when it counts: November. Make them fear for their re-election and their control of Congress - which they've had, mind you, for 2 years now. Satisfied? Want more of the same? Then vote for a Democrat in November.

At least in Oregon, you'll have a real alternative: the Greens are running good candidates in (at least) 3 House districts. Dozens of other states are doing the same. We're the only real national Peace Party, to say nothing of the rest of the progressive agenda, and we need your help. We sure aren't going to be flooded with corporate money, like, say, Obama.

So if you're serious about making a real change, quit doing the same old thing. You already know it doesn't work. That's a brick wall, folks. Paint it Green.

P.S.: I didn't mean to argue that McCain is more likely to end the war than Obama, but that's the lesson of history. Take it as you will. Personally, I'm working and voting for Cynthia McKinney and our Congressional candidates.

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» You had me until... Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: You had me until...:McKinney Posted by: oregoncharles
themanwithadog
Posted by: the man with a dog on Jun 5, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Independant (uk leading newspaper) is running a story that Bush wants 50 military bases,control of Iraqi airspace below 29,000 feet and legal immunity for american soldiers and contractors in Iraq
. This deal being negotiated in Baghdad is hoped to be completed before Bush leaves the White House. This would perpetuate the american occupation indefinitly regardless of the outcome of November election.
The newspaper has in its posession a number of actual facts to substantiate their story
Your idiot president is determined to undermine the stability of the middle east for the future.
God bless America and democracy

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» I read that this am... Posted by: robbie.seal
» Off your meds? Posted by: robbie.seal
bring back the draft
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 5, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...with no exemptions. If the upper middle-class base of the Democrats would realize that there is a distinct possibility that their precious Johnny (or Jane's) ass is in-line to get shot-off in Iraq (or Afghanistan or Iran), attitudes would change in a BIG hurry! Then the Lexus Liberals would be forced to change their "armchair" opposition of the war into something more direct. And believe me these people KNOW how to apply pressure to their congressmen!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: bring back the draft Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: bring back the draft Posted by: alternetrose
» RE: bring back the draft Posted by: progdem
Realistically,
Posted by: oregoncharles on Jun 5, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not convinced that political activism can end the war (occupation, to be precise), even though that's what I'm doing.

The Viet Nam War ended for 3 reasons:

(1) The Vietnamese won.

(2) Because American soldiers increasingly refused to fight, and increasingly also attacked officers who tried to make them. It was a slow-motion mutiny. If you want to end the war, talk to the people doing the fighting.

(3)And also because the anti-war movement became a serious threat to public order. It wasn't polite, legal, orderly, or even all that non-violent. It filled the streets of Washington, shut down the city, and refused to move until thousands and thousands were rounded up to clear the streets. It blocked trains, fought the police and National Guard, and got a few members killed. It was THAT close to a real, for sure uprising.

Oh, yes: it also defeated Hubert Humphrey, a pro-war Democrat.

So I think Sirota is wrong on a key point: our best hope may lie with the "Protest Industry," when they get angry enough to get real. When they do, I'll show up. Meantime, I'll try to diselect Democrats and give all of you a real progressive and populist alternative.

Make 'em sweat:

Vote Green.

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» RE: ealistically, Posted by: progdem
» RE: ealistically, Posted by: oregoncharles
» Current antiwar movement Posted by: mutualaid
There could be no better evidence . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jun 5, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There could be no better evidence of the disconnect between parents and children, between the elders of our society and youth, and between the U.S. citizen and history than an article and comments concerning it like this one. Anyone who believes that our "elected" representatives or president actually control the course of the nation simply hasn't been paying attention since 1948.

That, of course, is the year the military industrial complex began its silent coup d'etat - creating as its first asault on our democracy the CIA. The latter's now successful effort to take over the nation's mind - the news media - followed immediately: Operation MOCKINGBIRD.

The power of MOCKINGBIRD, moreover, is demonstrated in the fact that the public actually believes, calls, this an election. ALL of these people are owned by the corporations that rule here and decide what the nation's course will be, else they would not have been selected to "run" for office. Nothing but a military industrial complex coup can explain a military the Brobdingnagian size of ours or its hegemony around the world.

For Pete's - no for the sake of all of us - READ THE NATION'S HISTORY!

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WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jun 5, 2008 10:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dem and the repub get their water from the same well. That well wants war to aquire the resources of any land they wish to point their guns at. This government is about 'Profit and Plunder' plain and simple. If you truly want Peace and at least some means of becoming a more enlightened society than we must,WE MUST take back the country.
We have the right to throw out this system. We have the right to change the rules the cops operate under, We have the right to disband the Supreme Court and set a better one. It's time we stopped being sheep for the rich.
Every person,of every age is given Life,Liberty and pursuit of happiness by the gift of being born as a child of God. Nowhere does any document we hold as our standardbearer say 'Only the rich shall have rights,liberties,freedom and the ability to lead. We are the Leadership of the country and it's time to take out the trash
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08

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and he is not a politician.
Posted by: outsideagitator on Jun 5, 2008 10:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ralph really understood how to go after the power structure and the politicians who did their corporate master's bidding but he did not understand the nuts and bolts of electoral politics. His use of the term consumer rather than citizen is a good case in point. Also, his turning back on the Green Party and its rank and file activists after the elections shows his lack of knowledge about electoral politics and what it takes to build a party in order to effectively compete in that arena.

He is not a bad guy, just wrong an that point.

Joseph





Joseph

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» RE: Hmmm, yes... Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Hmmm, yes... Posted by: progdem
Dems couldn't overide a Bush veto!
Posted by: deeannef on Jun 5, 2008 11:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, no matter how much you want to hold our congress to task, it still boils down to the fact that they could pass all the bills they want, but unless they could overide Bush's veto, it was a pointless exercise, i.e. 66 votes, NOT 51! It is simple math.

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» RE: See my post below. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Dems couldn't overide a Bush veto! Posted by: Gazette del Popolo
If at first you don't succeed...
Posted by: outsideagitator on Jun 5, 2008 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author (Steve Sirota) points out the following: "Say what you will about the anti-Cheney zealots, the pro-impeachment activists and other assorted Protest Industry followers, they may be utterly disorganized and lack real-world political strategies, but at least their activism is about more than a sporting event. They aren't just demonstrating to help one set of politicians defeat another set of politicians. And as importantly, they don't dream of stopping just one war because that's what is considered politically expedient.
They dream of changing society's long-term outlook on war itself."

I believe that Steve is essentially right here. Changing society's long-term outlook on war is going to be no easy task however. What it will take in my opinion is a large anti-war/pro peace movement that is dedicated to daily resistance to the current war which includes guerilla theater of all sorts and at every level, non-violent civil disobedience, disruptive actions aimed an jamming up the everyday functioning of the society at large and the building of long lasting cross ethnic and generational divides that not only talk peace but build institutions how ever small at first, that promote the idea of a peaceful world...a peaceful planet. It will take sacrifice and determination and I am not sure that we are the people that can do it. We have such a mean streak that runs through our national character that folks who try may well be ruthlessly crushed while the majority tut tuts, wrings their hands and....does nothing.

I am a Vietnam Vet and member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. We tried, and many of us are still around...still trying but we are not enough. I am proud of each one of them and proud of our history....and proud of the younger brothers and sisters in the Iraq Veterans Against the War.

Joseph

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Dems Couldn't Override a Veto? (Once Again:)
Posted by: oregoncharles on Jun 5, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They don't have to, to end the war. They have to do nothing: NOT pass the funding bill for the war. The Bushies even made it easy for them, by making it a separate bill. In the Senate, it only takes 41 votes, to sustain a filibuster. NOT passing a bill can't be vetoed, but refusing the funding ends the war by withdrawing authorization. It's basic politics, and rest assured, every member of Congress understands it. If not, they certainly shouldn't be there.

But the Democratic leadership in Congress has gone to great lengths to make sure the funding bills pass. They're still doing it, even after the House voted one down. That means they SUPPORT THE WAR. I don't know how many times we have to say this: if they pass the funding, they SUPPORT THE WAR. And Obama voted for it, each time it came up. Nor does he say he'll withdraw all our troops: he'd leave about a third of them there, a recipe for disaster.

Next lesson:

Barack Obama SUPPORTS THE WAR, despite what he said when it didn't matter, and despite what he says now on the campaign trail.

Next: Why does Bush still have the veto power? Because the Democrats - that's THE DEMOCRATS in Congress refuse to take it away from him, or even try. So they support Bush, too. That's why they keep voting for his policies, always just enough of them.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you have to face reality sometime.

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» Good post, Charles. Posted by: robbie.seal
» Wrong again Posted by: brunowe
» RE: You're confused. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Sure, but Posted by: oregoncharles
What have you done, Mr. Sirota???
Posted by: Elainebrower on Jun 5, 2008 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have you sent a son off to 3 tours of duty in the so-called war on terror? Have you lost time at work, and been threatened with losing that job if you don't stop protesting and getting arrested? Have you spent any time at all in jail defending the constitution and our freedom from this Regime? Do you have nightmares of death and destruction or the marine corps. showing up at your door when you awaken every damn day or when you get home from work every damn night? You should not be allowed to be a "pundit" on the anti-war movement, only those in it should be able to speak about it! You do not understand the complexities of the issues we are facing as a people who are trying to fight the monster of this government. All of your books should be taken off the shelves and burned! Why won't publishers work with people like me who have given up an entire existence to stop the war and change the direction of this Country? You are not, and you and Scott Ritter can take a hike off a steep cliff!

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» Attacking each other is not the answer! Posted by: outsideagitator
The Demcorats are taking their instructions from AIPAC..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Jun 5, 2008 5:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems the Democrats are taking their marching orders from AIPAC who are nothing less than blood thirsty war monger zealots, who's own children will not go and fight and do the dying..

I expect the next 4 years to be worse than even these last 8 after seeing that AIPAC conference..

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Too many chiefs, and too few indians.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jun 5, 2008 10:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As always, everybody has their own idea, and few are willing to postpone their pet peeve or put aside their private gripe to take action.

We had massive anti-invasion public demonstrations before the decision to go into Iraq. No one in power was willing to notice that we were being lied to. It's not that we never before had presidents who shamelessly lied to us. The ones who went public about the Shrub's fascist tendencies were ridiculed as nuts.

But that was then, and this is now. Now we need new leadership. We can only hope that those we elect in November will have the wisdom and the courage to shake off the Bush shackles.

So get back in the fight. If you're already in the fight, then find a way to get it together with comrades (flash signal? code word? hell, no; people who work together are comrades). We gotta do it, and can only do it together.

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The forgotten anti-war movement...
Posted by: NolanLawson on Jun 6, 2008 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the main thrust of your article, but you're missing one major group that's also leading the anti-war movement: Ron Paul Republicans. Last weekend, those of us in Washington State went to the Republican State Convention and, although a minority, we persuaded the body to pass a resolution stating that the military actions in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq were unjustified because they were effected by presidential force, and therefore the Republican Party should only support formal declarations of war authorized by Congress. (Something McCain, with his hungry eyes set on Iran, would probably not approve of.)

It was a small victory, sure, but the fact that we did it within the Republican Party (now dominated by neoconservatives) speaks to the power this particular branch of the anti-war movement can have. I just wish we could get more props from places like AlterNet about the work we're doing from the inside.

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