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It's not like the Democrats are going to pick someone more liberal than Hillary. And the focus should be on a Democratic ticket that can win.

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Is Clinton the Ticket for Obama?

By Robert Scheer, Truthdig. Posted June 18, 2008.


It's not like the Democrats are going to pick someone more liberal than Hillary. And the focus should be on a Democratic ticket that can win.
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Why not Hillary? Not my first choice -- Al Gore is -- but I find all of the pro-and-con debate about Hillary Rodham Clinton to be beside the point. She is, as Barack Obama said, likable enough, and the Dems are not likely to pick anyone better.

It is certainly a great asset to have a formidable female vice presidential candidate, whose victory would further a legitimate aspiration of many of the nearly 18 million people who voted for her in the primaries. Nor is there a more progressive woman who would likely be added to the ticket. Clinton is about as good as the Democratic Party leadership will accept in their insistence on a right-of-center balance to Obama's purported liberalism.

Right of center she is. Just take the three major legislative accomplishments of the Clinton White House, whose record Sen. Clinton has trumpeted. First was President Clinton's so-called welfare reform that wiped out the federal obligation to deal with poverty. When Democrats claim to be the party of concern for the underdog, they must often refer to the federal welfare programs originated under Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal and Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. It was Clinton's mandate to gut those programs and devolve concern for the poor, including the 70 percent previously on welfare who were children, to the tender mercies of the states.

Add to the list of horribles from the Clinton years the Financial Services Modernization Act, passed at the president's insistence, and his refusal to even threaten a veto of it if a strong privacy provision that he half-heartedly requested were not included. It wasn't, and as a result, your private financial, health and other records held by previously segregated stockbrokers, insurance companies and banks were merged, along with those respective corporate entities. This law represents the dismantling of the major market regulations instituted by Roosevelt in response to the Great Depression, but don't look for Democrats or Republicans to be bragging about their vote for that one, in this time of the subprime mortgage meltdown.

Finally, there is the Telecommunications Act that permitted media merger mania; and all one needs to say about that assault on the diversity of ownership needed for a free press is that Rupert Murdock is a big buddy of the Clintons. And that's hardly just because they both shared an enthusiasm for the now widely discredited invasion of Iraq. Nope. Hillary Clinton, as she brags in her meetings with her financial backers, has faithfully carried water for the corporate elite while making appropriate noises about the little people.

But that is a time-honored tradition in the Democratic Party, and while I remain hopeful that Obama will break the mold, I never expected him to do so in his choice of a vice president. Despite being a moderate centrist, Obama has been tagged as something of an egghead in the mold of Adlai Stevenson. No match as a demagogue for John McCain, who has proven in the primaries that for the sake of election he will readily disregard logical consistency or factual accuracy.

That is particularly true in McCain's positions on the reckless expansion of the American empire, beginning with, but certainly not ending at, the ambition to colonize Iraq. So intent is he on waving the flag of mindless militarism that he will even betray his own experience and undermine the constitutional safeguards against torture. In his 1974 paper for the National War College on his prisoner experience, McCain wrote of "prisoners being ordered to sit, kneel, or stand for long periods of time deprived of rest or sleep" as "torture."

Yet, praising Chief Justice John Roberts for his dissent from the Supreme Court's extension of habeas corpus protection to Guantanamo prisoners who have experienced much worse, McCain dismissed the pleading of the tortured: "These are people who are not citizens." Well, neither was he a citizen of Vietnam when he attacked that country, and wouldn't it have been a good thing if his captors had been held accountable by an independent judiciary? Although McCain has in the past condemned torture, whatever he thought then, he does not now believe that judicial due process is a human right to be universally honored. Obama, who strongly supported the court's 5-4 majority decision, clearly does.

Whether he picks Clinton or not, the push is on for a Democratic ticket that can win -- a victory critical to the honor of this nation, given that one-vote Supreme Court majority.

Digg!

See more stories tagged with: clinton, obama, vice president, mccain, election 2008

Robert Scheer is the co-author of The Five Biggest Lies Bush Told Us About Iraq. See more of Robert Scheer at TruthDig.

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Obama is going to rock McCain's world and he will WIN without Hillary on the ticket
Posted by: foreverhope on Jun 18, 2008 10:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Three GOOD reasons Hillary should NOT be VP:

First was President Clinton's so-called welfare reform that wiped out the federal obligation to deal with poverty.

Add to the list of horribles from the Clinton years the Financial Services Modernization Act, passed at the president's insistence

Finally, there is the Telecommunications Act that permitted media merger mania; and all one needs to say about that assault on the diversity of ownership needed for a free press is that Rupert Murdock is a big buddy of the Clintons


Rupert Murdoch? There's another good reason to keep Hillary off the ticket.


But that is a time-honored tradition in the Democratic Party,

What time honored tradition?

and while I remain hopeful that Obama will break the mold, I never expected him to do so in his choice of a vice president.

Not me, I want him to break the mold in just about every way, so far he isn't disappointing me. And MOST IMPORTANTLY his VP choice is arguably the most important decision he can make.

Obama has been tagged as something of an egghead in the mold of Adlai Stevenson. No match as a demagogue for John McCain,

No match for McCain?? LOL! That's rich! McCain can't remember what he was told to say yesterday. He is one of the worst public speakers I have ever heard. Just hearing him drone on is good reason not to vote for him. And that wicked temper! Barack will toast him, I can't wait.

Republicans can 'tag' Obama anything they want, and they will, but it doesn't make it true and for most voters it won't stick. Obama is BRILLIANT in so many ways, he is DYNAMIC, and the American voter not so stupid as the republicans wish to believe. Comparing him to Adlai is ridiculous and another attempt to diss him, label him and try to bring him down.

No doubt there are positives to putting Hillary on the ticket, but there are also serious negatives. Barack promised to 'turn the page', change. The Clintons do NOT represent change or turning the page, they represent the past. Furthermore the administration of the FIRST and SECOND Clinton terms left much to be desired as noted.

The Clintons would have us believe that Hillary and Bill have been thoroughly vetted. If this were true, then why don't we have answers for:

FOREIGN CLIENTS: How will Hillary know whether Bill's advice serves U.S. interests or the interests of his Russian, Chinese, Indian, Kazakhstan, Dubai, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman or Brunei clients?

MONEY: Do the tax records for the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation, Clinton Library and Clinton campaign show a proper accounting for the funds received for the Clintons' private purposes versus charitable, public and political purposes?

PARDONS: Will Hillary "reject" contributions or compensation from persons she pardons unlike her husband Bill who accepted contributions from Marc Rich, partner of Viktor Bout (the merchant of death), and her brother Hugh Rodham who accepted compensation from drug lords who were pardoned by Bill?

Furthermore the Clintons destroyed the dem party in the 90's. By 1998 under the Clinton co-presidency, the GOP gained 48 seats in the House, 8 seats in the Senate, 11 governorships, and 1,254 seats in state legislatures, and that during their tenure, 439 (out of 1,998 Democrats) became Republicans as opposed to 3 Republicans who became Democrats.

I am hoping Barack will choose Jim Webb or possibly Joe Biden for VP. Whomever he chooses I am confident his choice will be made for all the right reasons. Obama is going to win by a landslide sweeping down ticket dems into Congress. It's going to be a GREAT year for dems and Barack is going to be a GREAT president!

BARACK THE VOTE!

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Sarcasm?
Posted by: Crazy H on Jun 18, 2008 11:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not getting the point, here, Robert. You start by telling us what a good choice she is, then spend the rest of the column enumerating her faults.

She's a strong woman with leadership qualities and experience, true. I'd have voted for her for president without hesitation.

But a Black/Woman ticket is just asking for trouble from both the sexists and racists still out there. Either one would have a better chance individually than they do together.

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Clinton as about as an anti-choice candidate the democrats could muster...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jun 18, 2008 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...what with her "government mandates" against individual health care choices.

The best we can say about the anti-choicers on the right is that those nasty turkeys only pick on ~50% of the population. Clinton goes whole on the hog and wants to use the force of government against 100% of individuals (perhaps excluding Congresscritters such as herself).

If Clinton adopts a more pro-choice platform with regard to how citizens are allowed to tend to their bodies, then maybe...maybe. Until then, like all anti-choice ideologues, she's diametrically opposed on the issue of health care to liberal--in the true sense of liberty--policies.

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Is that possible?
Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 18, 2008 6:50 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been waiting to buy my O8ama bumper sticker to see if Clinton will run. She got a moderate amount of support here in NC and McCain is only leading Obama by 4 points now. This in a state that for years has been no contest pro GOP in presidential elections. But I thought Clinton was rather too abusive to Obama during the campaign to be chosen as VP.

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JUST THE FACTS FOLKS
Posted by: RegisteredVoter on Jun 18, 2008 7:08 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again it seems as if the posted replies to this article are gathering information about Hillary Clinton's efficacy as a VP nominee from BLOG-BYTES.

I would have to say that either HRC or Gore would be viable VP candidates for Obama to ensure the Democratic Party can make a foothold in Washington again.

And before we get to excited to embrace Obama, remember that the McCain machine is poised and ready to strike. They will start digging so far into Obama's background to find ANYTHING to smear him with -- case in point - the attack on his wife.

Before you start judging how Hillary responded to him in the debates, take off your rose colored glasses and face reality. Politics is politics... it doesn't get dirty until the Repubs start crankin out the propaganda.
Lets face it, folks - Obama needs all the experienced help he can get. And if you take the time to visit the Washington Post or the Senate records, read the legislation that HRC has voted for and against. She has voted for more legislation that would benefit women's and children's health; impoverished families; senior citizens and the working class of the US than Obama could ever dream of.

Like it or not, Hillary haters, the woman is educated, savvy, and has tried to make a difference in the current Washington environment. Give credit where credit is due.

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» RE: JUST THE FACTS FOLKS Posted by: koolwoman
Don't put gunpowder near the stove
Posted by: GPFrank on Jun 19, 2008 4:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is quite some feeling out there. I recently talked with a lady friend who said she was so glad
(Sen) Clinton had been not nominated. If she had been, the lady said she would have killed herself . The lady is a Republican; not right wing but a pacifist and is on disability for Bipolar problems.

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Why Hillary Would Be a Liability No. 1
Posted by: Know More on Jun 19, 2008 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biggest problem with Senator Clinton is her inherent need to protect her husband's legacy, and the worst, least acknowledged, part of that legacy is his use of depleted uranium weaponry in the Balkans -- sadly, under the guise of a "peace mission".

These weapons are effective because they sharpen on impact, bursting into flames and releasing excess matter as tiny vaporized particles of easily-consumed/inhaled radiating uranium, which lay heavily in the atmosphere, and eventually the water and soil.

Both Papa and Son Bush administrations (with Cheney as Secretary of Defense and VP) have used the weapons heavily, in 1991 and since 2001, but the fact that Clinton used them in between the Bushs has kept the Democrats from highlighting the horrific truth about depleted uranium -- while the rest of the world is painfully aware of this atrocity.

Many consider the use of deleted uranium weaponry to be a war crime, since it cannot be limited to affecting "the enemy troops", nor even the enemy nation; nor can its damage be stopped at the end of the battle. In fact, the truth is that it eventually comes back to bite us all, especially since the area we have most bombed happens to also be the center of the world's greatest dust storms, so the particles travel across the global atmosphere.

If we are to move forward on this issue, Senator Clinton cannot be standing in the way.

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» RE: a VP is just a safety measure Posted by: carcinoid112
Why Hillary Would Be a Liability No. 2
Posted by: Know More on Jun 19, 2008 4:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Republicans have too much on her. Remember, Karl Rove put his assistant at the RNC, Timothy Griffin, in place as one of the replacement U.S. Attorneys - in ARKANSAS! -- WHERE HE COULD DIG UP ALL KINDS OF CLINTON HISTORY.

Though Griffin resigned the Arkansas post when Greg Palast turned over to John Conyers, Jr. the evidence that Griffin had sent out voter caging lists during the 2004 election campaign to illegitimately purge voter registration lists of urban, low-income and military voters (!). . .

He is now on McCain's team!


There was a reason Limbaugh was pushing Republicans to vote for Clinton in the primaries.

We shouldn't ignore these signs. We do not need her on the ticket.

All we need to do is keep highlighting the truth about the Bush administration and McCain's adhering to the NeoCon's demands.

And let Barack Obama continue to demonstrate what intelligent leadership looks and sounds like.

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Am I the only one?
Posted by: captain sassy on Jun 19, 2008 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is going to come across funky, but what the heck...

Am I the only one who thinks that if Hillary gets the VP nod, something will "happen" to Barrack after he wins the presidency?

I mean, c'mon, lots of people (many of whom could be said to have "been in the way") have met untimely demises...

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» RE: Am I the only one? Posted by: mdwoade
» RE: Am I the only one? Posted by: Sidra
» Am I the only one? Posted by: foreverhope
Simply put...
Posted by: Tombo on Jun 19, 2008 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
no. If Obama chooses Hillary, which I don't think he will do, he will lose my vote, since it will prove that he is an idiot. I am already pretty disgusted by his back peddling on his Iraq withdrawel statements and his statements regarding Israel, the right of Palestinian return, and Iran. This would just put me over the edge.

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» Yup Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Simply put... Posted by: wrnhart
To be...or not to be...
Posted by: JohnJlws on Jun 19, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is most surprising to me about this current election is the following:

-- 84% (as I remember) of Americans think the country is on the wrong path;
-- Bush’s approval rating probably won’t hit 30% even with the “my Presidency is ending” glow;
-- This President, his party and their nominee, McCain, have suspended and trampled on many of our guaranteed rights and our country, mine and yours, now tortures other human beings and this President, his party and thier nominee, McCain, think that's "just swell;"
-- The vast majority of Americans don’t support the war in Iraq and haven’t for some time;
-- There’s a list a mile-and-a-half long of things that demonstrate this President, his party and their nominee, McCain, don’t give a hoot about Americans, not the least of which is their stellar response to Katrina and now their equally as stellar response to the floods in the Midwest;
-- We have a private (Bush’s, his party and their nominee, McCain’s, friends), murderous, mercenary military force in Iraq that has as many “soldiers” in it as does our regular military and each of the mercenaries makes ten times as much as a U.S. military grunt for doing less hazardous work;
-- The economy, overseen by this President, his party and their nominee, McCain, and driven by the war, is in the toilet;
-- Gas will probably be in the $4.25 to $5.00 a gallon range, depending on what this President’s, his party and their nominee, McCain’s, daddies in Saudi Arabia decide to do, if not by the election, then shortly thereafter;
-- And I’m sorry, but John McCain? The man can’t complete a sentence any better than GW, has the delivery skills of a robotic Bob Dole, has zero plan and vision for Americans, and has more significant flip flops than a fish on the beach.

And none of the preceding is the surprising thing. The surprising thing is polls show a “dead-heat” for the presidency. Now you have to set aside the fact that the MSM must “sell newspapers” and therefore are going to make the unexciting downright nail-biting because if you parse the national polls, the race should go rather handily to Obama, but simply that this thing is close anywhere, any state, any city, any household should give anyone pause to consider every option.

Obama has run an exceptional campaign. Everything that was thrown at him failed to stop him. He came from 30 points down, with no fundraising capacity against arguably the most formidable political force in our nation’s recent history and won. The republicans are already bringing up the same old stuff that didn’t work during the primary and they’ve thrown some junk in about Michelle (there’s a winning strategy). If we’re stupid enough to buy this garbage as we did with the current idiot in the White House, then we deserve McCain. Obama should continue the process he started in looking for a VP. Besides Clinton there are other as viable candidates out there. I personally would look hard at Biden, but as with Clinton, I’d be a little hesitant to select another Senator.

Of course no one is asking me and I’m not the nominee, so who really gives a good gosh darn what any of us think? Maybe we should all get a life and find something productive that will actually help get Obama elected.

Obama '08

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» Not the more recent polls Posted by: westomoon
Anybody But Clinton
Posted by: funnyguy on Jun 19, 2008 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't even remember the last time I disagreed with Bob Scheer, but he is completely wrong about Hillary. She is thr most polarizing figure in modern politics and her ability and willingness to polarize is THE OPPOSITE o what Obama stands for. Her ability to polarize will unite the opposition and bring Reps to the polls to vote against her. She is extrmely weak among independents. Obama is leading by 13 to 19 points among women without her. Hillary represents the "politics as war" style of politics---exactly the opposite of Obama. And, she and Bill are dishonest, duplicitous and totally narcissistic. Hillary would be the worst VP choice possible.

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none
Posted by: m.tunney on Jun 19, 2008 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hilary is too much of a pedagogue to be electable as U.S. President or Vice-President. Her supporters are people, who are on the fringes of society such as women or anyone else, who feel slighted by the government in one way or other. But these people on the whole are complainers rather than fixers of problems. They don't seem to notice that Hilary has a list of praiseworthy ideals, which she has no power and no useful plan to turn them into reality.

Forcing everyone to have health insurance is a good example. If Hilary doesn't know that this dream of hers will never become a reality she does not need to be elected other than to help maintain the status quo by coming up with unapplicable and useless suggestions for change.

Talk is cheap but that is all that Hilary can bring to Obama's table as Vice-Presidente. Her own and Bill's track records are full of spooks in the closet such as their multifaceted relationships with Monsanto and Walmart.

Besides Hilary irritates the independent thinkers by her bossy approach to everything. Her schoolmistress personality sub- or consciously irritates a lot of people. As a woman I am not impressed by the fact that she is a woman. The first female President ought to be at least more lovable and endearing than Hilary is.

Putting Hilary on the ticket would hamper Obama just as much as Gore's choice of Lieberman, who is way too mealy-mouthed to be trusted. Witness the photograph taken of him with John McCain with their arms waving in the air, which reminded me of Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra walking on stage.

Just like the voters innately understand that Lieberman follows his own personal ambitions rather than those of his party or his country, they also understand that Hilary will do anything to become President sooner than later and will not stop grasping at blades of grass to play the part of being the 'Big Boss'. As such she is a liability to Obama because he cannot be assured of her loyalty towards him.

My question to Mr. Scheer is why that he is pushing so hard to keep Hilary in the presidential picture if she has already garnered such a large number of antagonists towards her perception of what constitutes good national government and foreign affairs. Why would Mr. Obama take her on if she is ballast rather than a true helpmate?

Let's pray that Mr. Obama picks a superb VP candidate that we can unite behind. Hilary's pervasive mismanagement of our national interest in the Iraq war is far too much for anyone Presidential candidate to take on. He can't be made to spend all his time to defend her flawed reasoning on her voting record.

Please Mr. Scheer rethink your support of Hilary Clinton for the Vice-Presidential slot.

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» RE: none Posted by: Docent
The DLC Is Over
Posted by: westomoon on Jun 19, 2008 12:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They've been too comfortable leading the party during its years of abdication. When I look at what the Republicans are accomplishing with their minorities in Congress, compared with the absolute Stockholm-syndrome behavior of the Dems over the past 10 years, I want to puke.

So we don't need to add any of the DLC's leading lights to the Obama ticket -- not Clinton, and not Gore. Obama has already made it clear that his "change" mandate starts with the Dem party -- choosing anyone from the [shameful] Old Guard would be hamstringing his efforts.

Also, the country is making it pretty clear they no longer need or want the Dems to be "Republican-lite", that DLC specialty. Scheer's article is so odd -- he actually makes a very good case for not putting Hillary on the ticket.

However, I don't think we need to worry. We have had our chance to choose the nominee -- the choice of running mate is his, not ours. Watching him finesse what was a pretty strong expectation that he would name Hillary to the veep job has made me confident that she will not add herself to the applicant pool, and that he will make a very smart choice for the veep slot -- one which will support the changes he is making to the Dem party. We really don't need to chew this tired old cud any more.

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Unbridled ambition
Posted by: RobNLA on Jun 19, 2008 3:01 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only reason she wants the VP slot is because of her reckless ambition to be President. She figures Obama stands a good chance of beating McCain, so why not be second in line for 4 years just in case something happens to Obama, right?

Plus you think Hillary or Bill would just stand aside and let Obama run the show if Hillary was VP? No way. They would try to take as much control as possible.

Obama has demonstrated during the primaries that's he's smart enough to avoid infighting problems in his organizations. No reason to think he was invite the queen of infighting as VP on his ticket.

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» Versus smooth judo Posted by: westomoon
NPR
Posted by: daodeyao on Jun 19, 2008 6:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert Scheer belongs on NPR not Alternet. He's an idiot!

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» RE: NPR and someone's idiocy Posted by: Know More
54% of dems want Hillary as VP
Posted by: Left of center on Jun 19, 2008 11:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only 43% don't. http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08.htm Scroll down about 1/3 of the way for the stats.
After Obama picks a non Hillary VP, McCain will be above 50% in the polls.

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Jean Clelland-Morin
Posted by: Velda on Jun 20, 2008 1:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should the candidate who paid the dues, has the resume and got the popular vote be asked to take a job that "is not worth a warm bucket of spit"? Hillary Clinton has more important things to do.

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Clinton was a closet Republican
Posted by: wrnhart on Jun 22, 2008 7:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr Sheer, let's face it. Bill Clinton was a closet Republican. I lost faith in him with his first appointment. Ron Brown; who everyone knew was about to be indicted for bribery. He pushed through every Republican program that the Republicans couldn't. You named several. I could never forgive him for NAFTA. I frankly didn't care who he was fucking as long as it wasn't me, but in retrospect, he did. I'm as big a Democrat as you will find but I couldn't make myself vote for a ticket a Clinton was on.
I too, would like Gore, but that doesn't seem likely. How about Edwards?

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dark-side
Posted by: wrnhart on Jun 22, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe Sheer has slipped over to the dark-side like lieberman only he is more subtle?

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