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Spitzer Did Nothing Wrong

By Annalee Newitz, AlterNet. Posted March 19, 2008.


Eliot Spitzer's decision to pay money for sex was personal. It's not like he issued a policy of mandatory hookers for everybody.
Annalee Newitz

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Also by Annalee Newitz

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May 7, 2008

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Writing Online: The Key to Literary Immortality
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Apr 23, 2008

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The outrage over former New York governor Eliot Spitzer hiring an A-list hooker makes me feel like throwing a gigantic, crippling pile of superheavy biology and economics books at everyone in the United States and possibly the world. Are we still so Victorian in our thinking that we think it's bad for somebody to pay large amounts of money for a few hours of skin-time with a professional? Have we not learned enough at this point about psychology and neuroscience to understand that a roll in the sheets is just a fun, chemical fizz for our brains and that it means nothing about ethics and morality?

The sad fact is that we have learned all that stuff, and yet most people still believe paying money for sex is the equivalent of killing babies on the moral report card. And yet nobody bothers to ask why, or to investigate past the sensational headlines. As far as I'm concerned, the one unethical thing Spitzer did was to hire a sex worker after prosecuting several prostitution rings. That's hypocritical of him, and undermines my faith in him as a politician.

But let's say Spitzer hadn't prosecuted so-called sex crimes before, and all he was doing was hiring a lady for some sex. Here is what I don't get: why is this bad? On the scale of things politicians can do -- from sending huge numbers of young people to be killed in other countries to cutting programs aimed at helping foster kids get lunch money -- hiring a sex worker is peanuts. It's a personal choice! It's not like Spitzer was issuing a statewide policy of mandatory hookers for everybody.

What really boggles the mind is the way so-called liberal media like National Public Radio and the New York Times have been attacking Spitzer's morals as much as the conservative Fox News types have. In some cases, they've attacked him more. The reasons given are always the same: sex work is abusive to women (male prostitutes don't exist?), and being paid for sex is inherently degrading.

Let's look inside one of those heavy economics books that I just beat you with and examine these assumptions for a minute, OK? Every possible kind of human act has been commodified and turned into a job under capitalism. That means people are legally paid to clean up one another's poop, paid to wash one another's naked bodies, paid to fry food all day, paid to work in toxic mines, paid to clean toilets, paid to wash and dress dead naked bodies, and paid to clean the brains off walls in crime scenes. My point is, you can earn money doing every possible degrading or disgusting thing on earth.

And yet, most people don't think it's immoral to wipe somebody else's bum or to fry food all day, even though both jobs could truthfully be described as inherently degrading. They say, "Gee that's a tough job." And then they pay the people who do those jobs minimum wage.

The sex worker Spitzer visited, on the other hand, was paid handsomely for her tough job. The New York Times, in its mission to invade this woman's privacy (though in what one must suppose is a nonexploitative way), reported that she was a midrange worker at her agency who pulled in between $1000-$2000 per job. She wasn't working for minimum wage; she wasn't forced to inhale toxic fumes that would destroy her chances of having a nonmutant baby. She was being paid a middle-class salary to have sex. Sure, it might be an icky job, in the same way cleaning up barf in a hospital can be icky. But was she being economically exploited? Probably a hell of a lot less than the janitor in the hospital mopping up vomit and cleaning up after you.

Sure, there are hookers who are exploited and who have miserable lives. There are people who are exploited and miserable in a lot of jobs. But the misery is circumstantial: not all hookers are exploited, just as not all hospital workers are exploited. It's basic labor economics, people.

Audacia Ray, former sex worker and editor of the sex worker magazine $pread, has pointed out that the public doesn't even seem to understand what exploitation really means. The woman who did sex work for Spitzer has had her picture and personal history splattered all over the media in an incredibly insulting way. Nobody seems to realize she's being degraded far more now than she ever was when Spitzer was her client. And she's not getting any retirement savings out of it, either.

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Duly Chilled
Posted by: Russ Wellen on Mar 19, 2008 11:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks, Annalee, for another great column. But your choice of words -- "and yet most people still believe paying money for sex is the equivalent of killing babies" -- might confuse.

To fundamentalist types "killing babies" means abortion. To them, paying money for sex is the equivalent of abortion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Duly Chilled Posted by: Persephone8
THANK you
Posted by: Crazy H on Mar 19, 2008 11:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For an intellegent, non-histerical look at the situation - from a woman's viewpoint, no less.

I'm astounded that people keep talking about his "unethical" behavior. It would have been unethical if he walked out without paying, but from all reports that's not the case.

I fully agree that the only "unethical" thing he did was to prosecute the people he was employing. But even that's mitigated somewhat - what else could he do? He couldn't very well throw the case out of court. Judges and cops often find themselves enforcing laws they don't agree with: but that is the law, and it would be unethical for them to ignore it.

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» RE: THANK you Posted by: Longdream
But he Did
Posted by: BCcovers on Mar 19, 2008 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But he did make an issue of going after prosecuation rings while AG. Not to mention always taking care to sensationalize these busts with press conferences and harsh words for the perpetraitors.

So it's cool for someone to persecute others for a crime, they, themselves commit and then get off scot-free when they get caught? I guess the rules for all the rest of us don't apply to a Democratic governor in your book. You're right the fact that it's sex does not matter. He could be engaging in hypocritical acts such as this with other issues like drugs or illegal gambling. I would still call for his head, that while I believe the laws in all of these vices (drugs, sex-work, and gambling) need major changes; we don't need a governor that feels he is above the law. This it seems is what you are advocating. A society where "Party Members" are exempt from the laws and regulations governing the lowly proletariat.

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» RE: But he Did Posted by: charemor1
» RE: But he Did Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: But he Did Posted by: patsy6
» RE: But he Did Posted by: BCcovers
The Loss is Ours
Posted by: JeanneDakota on Mar 19, 2008 12:30 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bravo. We have lost an effective public servant. Thanks to our reactivity, the nation will remember the scandal more than his many years of accomplishments. He could have been a presidential candidate.

A governor resigns and a president is impeached over sex scandals, yet a president who leads us to war on false information and kills tens of thousands faces no censure. Sex is more shocking than murder.

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» RE: The Loss is Ours Posted by: soulrebeljc
He messed with the Primal Forces of NATURE
Posted by: JSquercia on Mar 19, 2008 1:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With due acknowledgement of and Homage to NETWORK Eliot's crime was HE messed with the Primal Forces of NATURE that being the WALL STREET crowd . You know those guys who get paid Millions for losing Billions . He pointed out the Stock Market is RIGGED game and the small investor is viewed as a sheep fit only for SHEARING

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Pardon me, but this is the law we are talking about
Posted by: rickiey on Mar 19, 2008 2:21 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we have here, is a government official, who broke the law. Now, this law-breaking wasn't an oversight, it wasn't a little slip-up, this was a planned act, to violate the law.

Our elected officials should be held in account, when they break the law, end of story.

(I think we would all like to hold our current President in account as well)

I have no problem with legalizing prostitution. But for as long as it is illegal, I expect our officials to respect the law they are sworn to uphold.

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It's not fair....
Posted by: pangolin on Mar 19, 2008 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To the ladies who are "giving themselves" to thier boyfriends or husbands that other ladies get ten to twenty times the local base wage for their time. It's nothing less than union busting.

I mean when a woman works 40 hours a weeks diapering sick old men she should earn a bit more than the lady who works ten hours screwing healthy old men. The healthy ones smell better and pay extra when they make a mess. The sex workers also reserve the right to refuse service in ways that no hospital worker could ever survive. Sex workers just do not deal with poo.

Let's face it they handle the same parts, the diseases are the same, the hygiene protocols are the same (soap, water, latex), and the "escorts" clients are a LOT nicer to them. Certified nurses aides should get paid at least as much hourly and probably more.

Pity the poor dental hygienist that faces one bacterial ridden smokers mouth after another day in and day out. Think about the nasty things that you have dug out of your teeth when you were flossing daily and then think about the really nasty teeth you have seen. She's earning about one-quarter the hourly pay of somebody who gives oral massage to a well-washed and wrapped "sausage." Surely equal pay for equal work is her due.

As a man who patronizes sex workers and has supervised construction crews I can tell you that the sex workers appear to have the easier time of it. I have never heard of an escort missing several fingers due to an on-the-job accident while that is common on my crews. Chainsaws, ripsaws and chipper-shredders are far more hazardous than angry clients and the job injury statistics bear that out. Nothing you can say will make the chainsaw stop hurting you. Drivers regularly kill flagman just out of carelessness. Work is scary stuff.

The biggest hazard sex workers have to deal with is ignorance. I have several times used my paid client time to discuss safe-sex practices, hygiene and feminine health with providers. Everybody wants things clean. Still, the professionals are far more careful on average than bar pickups; I have had girlfriends refuse to allow me to use condoms but never an escort.

Decriminalizing sex work would make health education outreach far easier for everybody. It would also promote monitering of sex workers to screen out the underage or health-impaired and divert them to social services. It would be nice if there were social services to divert them to but that's another problem.

The fact that they can drive out a consumer oriented governer in a state with tens of thousands of homeless citizens for having sex with a consenting adult shows how STUPID AMERICANS ARE. You idiots let the Bush administration take away somebody helping you out due to a distraction.

How many foreclosures were there in New York last week that didn't make the paper? How many Wall Street felons had time to hide more fraudulently earned bonuses offshore while you worried about Spitzers sex life? Idiots.

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» RE: It's not fair.... Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: It's not fair.... Posted by: pangolin
» RE: It's not fair.... Posted by: abido0
» And yet... Posted by: mythago
» RE: It's not fair.... Posted by: 3rdI
RE: Let's call a Nutjob a Nutjob
Posted by: Crazy H on Mar 19, 2008 4:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nutjob.

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But he did prosecute sex crimes, and not too long ago.
Posted by: Longdream on Mar 19, 2008 3:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that prosecuting someone for using a prostitute is bull. They're even using the hundred-year-old piece of legislative crap called the Mann Act to do it, citing that Spitzer transported the woman over state lines, which is irrelevant in this case, and is a part of the law usually reserved to prosecute kidnappers and pedophiles. They had to dig deep if they were going to use the Mann Act, and that shows that somebody was out to get him.

Mann Act prosecution is the hallmark of law enforcement trying to get at someone who pisses them off. Charlie Chaplin had radical political views, and when an actress brought a civil paternity suit, the feds prosecuted him under the Mann Act. He was acquitted, but his reputation never recovered. He didn't work much after that. Jack Johnson, the first black heavyweight boxing champion was prosecuted and convicted under the Mann Act for transporting a prostitute over state lines. The case was racially motivated and damned nasty--the "prostitute" was his white girlfriend. The play "The Great White Hope" was about the Jackson case.

As far as I'm concerned, the one unethical thing Spitzer did was to hire a sex worker after prosecuting several prostitution rings. That's hypocritical of him, and undermines my faith in him as a politician.

But let's say Spitzer hadn't prosecuted so-called sex crimes before.....


I don't think we can separate that out, and not only because it's 'hypocritical'. His involvement may point to corruption that goes back to his days as Attorney General. Spitzer prosecuted a call-girl ring in 2004, in a very public investigation that embarrassed the people accused and their families. He became governor of New York in December of 2006. It's not too great a leap for me to think that he used some of the contacts he had in that case for his own comfort, perhaps even then. That bears deeper investigation.

Most of Spitzer's prosecutions as AG were about corruption in the finance and entertainment industries, and he did a lot of good for the little guy. It would be a shame to cast a shadow over all of his work, but if it should prove to be true that he was in bed with people he was prosecuting, he deserves to be sent up.

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The Only Thing?
Posted by: canadianlefty on Mar 19, 2008 4:37 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not going to engage with your analysis of sex work since I'm still figuring out my own, though I think you've oversimplified it quite a bit and I think a lot more needs to be said about power, oppression, and sexuality.

However.

I think you've completely missed a central ethical lapse in the Spitzer case: his violation of his relationship agreement with his partner. Of course there's no way we can absolutely know what that agreement was/is, but I think it is likely that it included sexual exclusivity. Rather than end the relationship or negotiate a new agreement, he violated it. Doesn't deliberately and repeatedly violating a core agreement in one of the most important relationships in your life strike you as an ethical lapse? One that may not deserve the kind of silly hypermoralizing that republicans throw at it, but one that is non-trivial nonetheless?

-- S.N.

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» RE: The Only Thing? Posted by: hms2004
» RE: The Only Thing? Posted by: wavydavy
» RE: The Only Thing? Posted by: soulrebeljc
High Crimes And Misdemeanors
Posted by: hole11 on Mar 19, 2008 5:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Politicians have to be accountable for oaths they break. It's that simple. Most high crimes are easy as well, counterfeiting, treason and piracy.

Misdemeanors mean bad conduct and people would consider paying for sex with another person while married is bad conduct.

Likewise the state has turned to us and blame us for all types of crimes that is considered bad conduct but doesn't really hurt anyone but the individual. So, lets at least hold officers accountable for their bad conduct.

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The law is pretty clear!
Posted by: carbon-based on Mar 19, 2008 5:51 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Transporting a women across state lines for sex?.. Visiting a prostitute? In NY that is illegal!

Considering Pelosi's draining the swamp..looks like all that is left is a bunch of democrats flopping around!

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» RE: The law is pretty clear! Posted by: talkville
» RE: The law is pretty clear! Posted by: carbon-based
Spitzer's done nothing wrong?
Posted by: Pauline2005 on Mar 19, 2008 7:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You think Spitzer's done nothing wrong? Going with prostitutes and risking bringing nasty diseases home to his wife is nothing wrong? You need to get a reality check. If that were me, I'd find the nastiest divorce lawyer I could and hang the bastard out to dry.

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» RE: Spitzer's done nothing wrong? Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: Spitzer's done nothing wrong? Posted by: El Hombre Malo
Sure he did something wrong
Posted by: LastVisibleDog on Mar 19, 2008 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It doesn't matter if cheating on your wife with prostitutes is morally or ethically right or wrong - the only thing that matters is that it is something that can be used against you. Any political idiot knows that. What Spitzer did wrong is leave himself open to political destruction. You know, seeing as you're the governor of New York, maybe lay off the hookers in order to protect your position and the people you represent since plenty of enemies will be waiting to go in for the kill. I'm astonished at how bone headed Spitzer was.

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» Max out Cynicism? Posted by: maddy
Mandatory hookers?!?
Posted by: kwalla on Mar 20, 2008 2:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sweet! Where do I sign up???

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On-point thoughts
Posted by: talkville on Mar 20, 2008 3:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks Annalee for pointing out things we should all be aware of these days, 2008 years or so since stonings and beheadings and other unsavory means of Judgment were used by some upon others.

Particulary on-point is the reactions and responses (and the ARE re-actions!) of such places as NPR and other media tagged as "liberal" -- moral self-righteousness and judgment of others seems to be something one can 'catch' it seems (not biologically of course, like a cold or the flu).

If no public funds were used in these activities of Mr Spitzer it indeed becomes a problem of a Single One and his behavior. He is an adult human being, his wife is an adult human being and their children are theirs and (I only can assume) are able to speak for themselves. It's fundamentally ludicrous to convert our entire mediatized environment into a Machine of Judgment and Advice to particular human beings; it is showing the devastating effect upon many thousands if not millions of people already. Most especially on the Left side of the aisle, this problematic should be considered with utmost care.

Activities like Stoning, Beheading, Torturing, Making Suffer etc. do not necessarily have to be carried out in an actual sense; there are also ideal and symbolic equivalents -- and these we are witnessing to an astonishing degree these days -- has Fox set a kind of 'norm'?

Judgment involves processes of Evaluation; we are also capable of processes of Reasoning. We need a bit more effort on both. If there's something like re-incarnation available to human beings, I tend to think that Loyola, Torquemada, Gobineau and a few other exemplary haters are moving around un-noticed among us.

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Nice article
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Mar 20, 2008 3:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny, refreshing, and outside the box.

With respect to the hooker, I'm not sure things are worse now than before the story broke. She can write her book, go on talk shows, make more albums, make videos, do movies, etc. I suppose all those things are exploitative, so to speak. But like the article says, most jobs are.

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» RE: Nice article Posted by: wavydavy
» RE: Nice article Posted by: bittershaman
» RE: Nice article Posted by: El Hombre Malo
Agree, BUT...
Posted by: Boston Flyer on Mar 20, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with what you say, BUT this behavior in my opinion is NOT ok for someone who has been given the power he has. Governors are some of the most powerful politicians in the country-- they manage enormous budgets and thousands of people. In exchange for this political power, they are asked to behave in a way that is above and beyond what we'd ask from virtually anyone else. One might think smoking pot is a harmless activity (I do), but if you're an FBI agent, I would REQUIRE you to NOT smoke pot (even though I think it's harmless in general). The same is true for elected officials, particularly powerful ones: in exchange for this power, you are asked to behave (during your term) in a way that I might not expect out of an 'average joe'. Powerful politicians are subject to blackmail; they should not put themselves in a position where their activity can be used against them. I believe that exchange is a perfectly fair one-- I can smoke pot and enjoy the company of prostitutes, but I can also (without being hypocritical in my opinion) demand my elected officials NOT engage in these activities while they're in office.

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» RE: Agree, BUT... Posted by: abido0
so now posters like me are supposed to make it clear that we are not pro-exploitation
Posted by: Suzon on Mar 20, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when it comes to other types of degrading employment?

That means people are legally paid to clean up one another's poop, paid to wash one another's naked bodies, paid to fry food all day, paid to work in toxic mines, paid to clean toilets, paid to wash and dress dead naked bodies, and paid to clean the brains off walls in crime scenes.

We have professionalized everything, haven't we? One of the clearest instances is the non-economically determined choice to turn over almost all your child's waking hours to a nanny or nursery school. Is it desirable that there are apparently no human transactions that don't require cash, check or credit card?

Call me old-fashioned, but I can envision a better society than the one we live in now where kids yearn for celebrity and to rake in millions. Who wants the kind of society where everything is okay as long as it's profitable?

Our present culture is such an abberation in human history. Not because it is evil compared to an innocent past, but because it is so stupid and short-sighted.

Sex is wonderful when it is truly voluntary but it can only be truly voluntary if you haven't been socially-conditioned to accept that selling carnal knowledge of your orfices is just a career option.

Is Las Vegas the template for the future?

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Prostitution SHould Be Legalized
Posted by: Persephone8 on Mar 20, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and taxed like any other business. Prostitution is legal in many parts of Europe.
It is overseen by government agencies. It is safer for the women
and eliminates the organized crime aspect of prostitution. It also reduced the spread of sexually transmitted disease.

In addition, I don't actually care that Spitzer was into call girls. It is a
beautiful twist that he gets busted after prosecuting "crimes"
connected to prostitution and prostitutes .

Also, the main reason I am happy he got busted is because he originally refused to implement The REAL ID Act, as many other States are doing- he caved- and agreed to implement the REAL ID Act.

Could it be because he was being blackmailed by Republicans?

(IMO) He didn't lose his position because of the sex scandal- it was because he went after very rich and powerful people on Wall Street
and his Achilles Heel was call girls.

We, as Americans need to transcend these limiting ideas about sex and morality. Politics and religion are a dangerous combination when it comes to power.

The Constitution, Bill of Rights and our Unalienable Rights are the core issue and basis for the laws and ideals that govern us-.
When the politicians uphold their worn oath of office-and we demand
our sovereignty under the Constitution and Bill of Rights - we will have a chance to be a vital and dynamic country again.

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Clever but soul-less argument
Posted by: Pirate Queen on Mar 20, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Annalee, you're making the kind of clever but soul-less argument that makes my stomach turn. The majority of hookers come from abused backgrounds into drug-addicted foregrounds. You shoot yourself in the foot by comparing paid-for sex to say, toilet cleaning, as that's exactly what these "escorts" are reducing themselves to: septic tanks. And imagine yourself comtemplating sex with a spouse after he'd gone there. Get real, on a heatfelt level.

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What Spitzer Did Do Wrong
Posted by: art614 on Mar 20, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do agree that considering sexual acts as "crimes" is ludicrous, as long as the acts only involve consenting adults of the human species. And the Mann Act is absolutely ridiculous. But here's what Spitzer did which was overwhelmingly wrong--and it's something I haven't heard anyone else in the media even mention in passing. According to the FBI tape, the woman involved said that Spitzer had wanted her to do something unsafe--i.e., not require him to wear a condom--but she refused. THAT'S what he did wrong. He had a wife who he'd been married to for 21 years! He was willing to put her in danger of her life. And even if he were single, do you think he'd have been any more consideration of his non-charging partners? This, rather than his sexual needs, shows a fatal flaw in his character: no integrity. Or, to put it in a term his cultural background would certainly have made him familiar with--he wasn't a mensch.

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Spitzer was lazy, stupid and chose to ignore facts.
Posted by: Intellect on Mar 20, 2008 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Spitzer was lazy, stupid and chose to ignore facts -
Fact 1 - That as a Democratic Governor of a state he would be a highly valued target of the Republican Administration that fired their own AGs because they would not find ways to prosecute high ranking Democrats even though no crimes committed by them could be found.
Fact 2 - Prostitution is illegal, and whether it should or should not be, it is.

Spitzer, knowing the power of the state and how easily it would be for his political adversariess to track his money transfers did them anyway - laziness! He made no effort it seems to cover his tracks, and knowing that the fed was wiretaping phone calls, especially those of its enemies, he used the phone to make the plans - How absolutely stupid!

He could have gone to Nevada, or somewhere out of the country where prostitution was legal, but instead thought he could break the law with impunity, and as a former AG he was well aware of what laws he was violating.

There is obviously more to this story, something much more sinister than just using a prostitute, as he resigned almost immediately. If it was just having sex with a prostitute he could have hung on to his office as Vitter and Craig are doing.

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Great analysis
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Mar 20, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was such a refreshing change from all the "but paid sex is so degrading" nonsense I keep reading from all ends of the political spectrum. I have only two points to add to the argument. The first is that I find it ludicrous that it's legal to make pornographic movies in which the participants are paid to have sex with each other in front of cameras, knowing that other people will pay to purchase or rent the movie so they can obtain vicarious pleasure from it, but it's illegal to do it if no one is filming it.

The second point - one that I have made many, many times on this site - is that people sell their bodies for all kinds of profit in activities from modeling to boxing. If the argument against prostitution is that it's degrading to women (as if putting it on film while they perform is not), so is turning them into clothing hangers.

If the argument against prostitution is that it's dangerous and some women are physically or psychologically damaged by it, the same can be said for the pressure to remain so thin they stop menstruating. It can also be said for activities as seemingly positive as playing football. I know few people who played football seriously, even in high school or college, who do not have some kind of knee or neck or other physical problems, however minor. And (my favorite example) boxing almost always results in permanent physical injuries.

Laws against money for sex are antiquated, moralistic, and probably come from a variety of factors including the desire of men to control women. This is not likely to be a reason now, since so many women are working outside the home, but at one time it was seen as a way for women to earn a living independent of a husband. It was probably viewed as a threat to marriage - why would a woman want to pick up after a man, cater to his whims, cook, clean, do laundry, and be expected to have sex with him at the end of a hard day for free if she could simply have the sex and get money for it?

Annalee is so right! Exploitation is everywhere from Walmart to the troops in Iraq.

But Spitzer is still a fool and a hypocrite for prosecuting prostitution while making use of the services and being so incredibly careless about it. He also broke a committment to his wife. Her anguished appearance on stage with him as he issued his apology was painful to watch. I don't know if he expected her to do this or if she objected to it, but to give this some perspective, imagine a man standing faithfully by his wife as she apologized to the world for having sex with another man - paid or not.

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» RE: Great analysis Posted by: agathena
» Excellent response! Posted by: LeeAnnG
I can think of one thing...
Posted by: richenza on Mar 20, 2008 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...getting his wife to stand next to him while he admitted to being a slutty hypocrite on national TV.

If I were his wife, I'd have waited until he was finished, then slapped him. It would be only fair - a physicla slap-in-the-face in front of the entire nation... in exchange for the emotional one.

Just sayin'.

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Spitzer's Sins
Posted by: JohnU on Mar 20, 2008 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The worst thing Spitzer appears to have done is subject his family to public humiliation. I say appeared because we really don't know if his wife and children knew about and were OK with his paying for sex. Probably not, but I know many relationships where it would have been known and approved of. The next worse thing is that he appears to have betrayed the trust of his family. I think these things are really, really bad, and they are built into our sex negative culture.

The other bad thing he did was to launder money so that his payments couldn't be associated with him and so the IRS wouldn't get it's cut. This is a by-product of sex work being illegal. If it weren't for the stupid anti-sex laws, Spitzer wouldn't have broken the other laws.

John U

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» RE: Spitzer's Sins Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
Question for women
Posted by: fiddler83 on Mar 20, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bill Gates offered you $1 million dollars for a massage the ended with a hand job, would you do it?

If you answered no, do you think there should be a law enusring nobody else can take him up on his offer?

Do you think there should also be a massive amount of funds dedicated to ensuring that nobody else takes him up on his offer and jails anybody who does?

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» RE: Question for women Posted by: arthurread
» RE: Question for women Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Question for women Posted by: igancedo
» RE: Question for women Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Question for women Posted by: El Hombre Malo
AT LAST! the voice of reason appears
Posted by: agathena on Mar 20, 2008 9:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men in leadership have been having affairs/unpaid sex/paid sex from the beginning of history and i imagine during pre-history too. It relieves the tension and burden of leadership, I imagine. As long as it does not interfere with their state obligations why all the fuss? We have a "clean-living" man in the WH now and look what terrible harm he has wrecked upon the world.

I agree with the writer, it was the hypocrisy stupid. Also some lawyers are furious with Spitzer for being legally stupid in wiring large amounts of money from a bank that he had previously fined for $20,000.

New York state lost a competent governor.

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Deb
Posted by: debmcd on Mar 20, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not like he did something that thousands of men don't also do every day. And it's not like he destroyed two countries and ordered the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. It's time for the right to get off their high horse. They're all a bunch of self righteous whores themselves.

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» RE: Deb Posted by: Knot_Rich
In the real world...
Posted by: mythago on Mar 20, 2008 9:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But let's say Spitzer hadn't prosecuted so-called sex crimes before, and all he was doing was hiring a lady for some sex."

But he had, and he wasn't. Not only had he made a point of busting 'prostitution rings' just like the one he hired, he was apparently engaging in financial shenanigans to cover it up--and possibly using public funds to do so. In your imaginary world where Spitzer was pro-decriminalization, had an open marriage and used money out of his own pocket to pay for sex? Maybe he did nothing wrong. In the real world, yes, he did. Why are you trying to excuse that?

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Hypocrisy
Posted by: Urgelt on Mar 20, 2008 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't care if a politician has a private sex life. His business.

I do care when he presents himself as a moral crusader in public, attacking the very things he himself indulges in privately.

We should demand of our elected officials honesty, not hypocrisy; humility, not arrogance. A democracy needs public servants, not power-driven rulers who think themselves above the rules they make and enforce for others.

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the real news and what really happened
Posted by: andreas on Mar 20, 2008 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that any discussion about Spitzer that focuses on the prostitution issue is playing into the hand of Bush and the bankers who were in cahoots over the predatory lending scheme that is now hurting the US economy and so many families. When I first heard about the Spitzer situation, my first thought was, what was he doing to block Bush and the power elites? A few days later the answer came in Greg Palast’s email newsletter. Read Greg Palast : http://www.gregpalast.com/elliot-spitzer-gets-nailed/
I think real news sources should just drop the prostitution issue, or deal with it as a less important aside if they wish, but first get to what it was meant to hide.

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legalize prostitution
Posted by: vasumurti on Mar 20, 2008 12:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prostitution should be legal. Someone once commented that using attractive women in advertising--magazines, billboards, etc. (what to speak of stripping, working in topless bars or merely posing nude!) is a subtle form of prostitution--women using their bodies for income.

Lisa Clark-Flory writes in Salon.com:

"At $25-$30 per hour, prostitutes make approximately four times what they likely would outside of the sex industry. Of course, that doesn't take into consideration on-the-job risks like contracting an STD (condoms were used in only a quarter of dealings) or being assaulted; researchers estimate that sex workers are assaulted an average of once a month. There's also the threat of being arrested, but according to the Economist, 'Prostitutes are more likely to have sex with a police officer than to be arrested by one.'"

Problems such as contracting STDs, being assaulted, pimp violence, etc. would not exist if prostitution were legal. Prostitution was legal in ancient India for the same reason the Prohibition of alcohol failed in the United States.

Commenting on Srimad Bhagavatam 1.11.19, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami writes:

"By tricks of chance, one may be obliged to adopt a profession which is not very adorable in society...even in those days, about five thousand years ago, there were prostitutes in a city like Dwarka...This means that prostitutes are necessary citizens for the proper upkeep of society. The government opens wine shops, but this does not mean that the government encourages the drinking of wine. The idea is that there is a class of men who will drink at any cost, and it has been experienced that prohibition in great cities encouraged illicit smuggling of wine.

"Similarly, men who are not satisfied at home require such concessions...It is better that prostitutes be available in the marketplace so that the sanctity of society can be maintained."

Even some conservatives concede that prostitution can be victimless. In a 1995 column entitled "Prostitution as a Privacy Right," Robert Craig Paul, a syndicated columnist for the Washington Times, wrote:

"If a woman's right to control the use of her reproductive organs permits her to enter into a cash transaction with an abortionist, then how can this fundamental right of privacy not apply to other transactions involving her use of her body?

"...abortion has been against the law and restricted with greater intensity for more of our history than prostitution, reflecting social norms that abortion, viewed as infanticide, is more immoral than prostitution...

"In contrast (to abortion), prostitution is entirely an act between consenting parties that does not affect the bodily integrity, identity and destiny of a third party (the unborn)...

"It is legal nonsense that privacy conveys the right to abort, but not the right to ingest drugs or engage in sodomy...

"It will be interesting to watch the court sort out on the basis of Roe v. Wade why it is legal for a woman to contract for abortion but not prostitution."

Again, prostitution should be legal.

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» RE: legalize prostitution Posted by: kylefoley76
spitzer
Posted by: kylefoley76 on Mar 20, 2008 2:25 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i have just witnessed the resignation
of the governor of new york, Lord.
although only in office for a year,
as attorney general
he courageously attacked the wealthy,
he wrangled their greed in razor-coil,
and he punished their gluttony of cattle.
rather than become captive to luxury's spice,
and wholly subject to its intoxo-junk,
he instead fought for the poor's falcon-freedom,
their lot striving to uplift and illumobellish.

sadly he was also intensely suffocated
by lust's merchants of night-death,
his spirit cruelly hijacked by its oven,
ever his self by its onslaught flooded.
unfortunately the femme's eyes of diamomazement,
her hair-silk and lips of merlot
eviscerated his reason and robbed him
of the elysian serenity of rationality.

lust kills, Lord, it ostracizes the spirit to fen,
it enmaggots the soul with howl,
and it inspires dissonance and cacophony within.
had i an abundance of luxo-wealth and rave-power, Lord,
it could very easily have been me
who was just now bludgeoned and decapitated,
me who was encompassed by the shadow,
me who was subsumed in night-thunder.

i pray more free from lust's talons to be,
less surrounded by its paratroopers of slice,
its noxio-annoyo siren reduced to a whisper,
rather than an ocean-defeaned roar.

mar 11




53

it is obvious, Lord, what happened.
in attacking greed's worm-wench,
in confronting wall street's lash-vultures,
always their wrath-foam profligate,
his name fabulo-glittered in the press,
he undoubtedly eclipsed in narcìssum,
him the bloom-flashing arbiter of justice,
his self the new empire state building,
comet-diamond from his mind arising.

undoubtedly he was the best
attorney general in the nation,
no reason to believe that he would
not have become our most effective governor,
the sloth-merchants swine butchering,
their platmo-flash to smut-gold morphing.
a sudden tsunami of justice crashing,
a weird freak of sunshine
amid an oil-ocean of savàjo.

instead the ego's wrath-talons
his soul dispossessed, obesified,
the gremlins of arrogance surrounding him,
all sorts of warlocks of pride gunning him.

please, Lord, heal this one of our leading politicians,
guide him back into the lumino-flash of mind-treasure,
return him to the fold of beato-bliss,
the flash-beacons surrounding him,
rather than the heinous lust-warts,
cherub-blithe, moon-kiss, and silverado,
instead of junk-jaws, witch-death and gash.

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Yay, Annalee is back!
Posted by: DaBear on Mar 20, 2008 8:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Word, chica!

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What do you bet Mark Brener walks?
Posted by: Adler Berriman Seal on Mar 20, 2008 11:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much do you want to bet that Spitzer's pimp is never meaningfully punished?

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so you want your daughters to be whores?