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The Missing Link in Creationism

By Sean Gonsalves, AlterNet. Posted December 10, 2007.


How can social conservatives deny Darwin's theory of evolution while espousing social Darwinism?
Gonsalves

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Also by Sean Gonsalves

Whistle-Blowers Under Attack
The government's attempt to gut a law protecting whistle-blowers does not bode well for our First Amendment rights.
May 12, 2008

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Government secrecy does not make us safer; it undermines the Constitution.
May 6, 2008

The News Media: Watchdog or Lap Dog?
It is becoming more and more difficult for the news media to undertake serious investigative reporting.
Apr 28, 2008

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In my neck of the woods -- actually Woods Hole in Falmouth, Mass. to be exact -- a new front in the "Culture War" has opened up.

A federal lawsuit has been filed against a biologist at the world-famous Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution by a zebra fish researcher named Nathaniel Abraham, alleging his civil rights were violated when he was fired because his belief in creationism.

The same day that story broke in the Cape Cod Times, the Associated Press had a story about how anti-evolutionists have come up with a new strategy in the battle against the unifying principle of the biological sciences.

The AP reported: "arguments for inserting skepticism, rather than religious concepts, into evolution lessons emerged after a federal court ruling nearly two years ago struck down the teaching of intelligent design in biology classes in Dover, Pa., said Michael Ruse, the director of Florida State University's program on the history and philosophy of science."

Ruse calls it "Strategy No. 4." What were the first three strategies? Strategy No. 1: Prohibit teaching it. The 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial put an end to that strategy.

Strategy No. 2: Get creationism taught in schools -- the literal biblical account of creation -- as an alternative to the "theory" of evolution. But courts rejected that strategy in the 1980s, Ruse said.

Strategy No. 3: Promote "Intelligent Design (ID)" -- the notion that "the universe's order and complexity is so great that science alone cannot explain it."

That strategy hit the legal wall in Dover, Penn., where a judge ruled that ID was religion-in-drag, pretending to be science, which meant teaching it in public schools constituted a violation of the separation of church and state.

And that brings us to Strategy No. 4: "Ruse described it as presenting evolution as an 'iffy hypothesis' instead of what it really is -- a scientific theory 'that's accepted like the Earth goes around the sun.'"

The new strategy seems to be losing steam too. "A suburban Atlanta school board abandoned its effort to put stickers in high-school science books saying that evolution is 'a theory, not a fact,' and South Carolina's Board of Education rejected a proposal to require students to 'critically analyze' evolution."

I don't know what strategy our zebra fish creationist is employing but I do know that in the "culture wars," as our conservative brethren call it, the teaching of evolution is considered nothing less than a satanic assault on the image of God.

I confess my heresy: like the Jesuit theologian/paleontologist Pierre Teilhard did 50 odd years ago, I'm a believer whose made his peace with evolution. But then, I've never understood why science and faith are discussed as if they're mutually exclusive. Folks who think evolution is an inherently atheist argument or those who think evolution disproves the existence of God are people with little imagination.

The evolution vs. creationism debate may be an unavoidable political fight but much more relevant and revealing is what many evolution-believing secular conservatives and evolution-denying religious conservatives have in common: a belief in social Darwinism.

A popular misconception is that Darwin coined the phrase "survival of the fittest." Actually, Darwin's thing was "natural selection," which turns out to involve lots of cooperation.

The origin of "survival of the fittest" can be traced to British philosopher Herbert Spencer, who had an illustrious career justifying racism and imperialism with his pseudo-science 50 years after Darwin published The Origin of the Species.

Spencer bastardized Darwin's theory and attempted to apply his misunderstanding of evolution to politics and economics. Thus began a political tradition in this country that has reached its apogee today, in which public policy is seen as a vehicle to prevent the weak from being "parasites" on the "fit."

Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich marvels as I do at how "the modern Conservative Movement has embraced social Darwinism with no less fervor than it has condemned Darwinism."

Listen to Spencer's own words: "Society advances where its fittest members are allowed to assert their fitness with the least hindrance."

Listen to any domestic policy debate about crime or education and you'll hear Spencer lurking beneath the surface in arguments justifying everything from war to incarceration rates to wealth disparities.

All that supply-side, Ronald Reagan, freedom stuff about meritocracies and the liberal conspiracy to "dumb-down" America with egalitarianism is social Darwinism -- in defense of the liberty of the "natural aristocracy."

So while science battles evolution-opponents, I'm trying to understand a conservative political species that opposes evolution on religious grounds while supporting social Darwinism on the political and economic grounds.

There's a missing link here.

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See more stories tagged with: evolution, intelligent design, creationism, darwin

Sean Gonsalves is a syndicated columnist and news editor with the Cape Cod Times.

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A helping hand
Posted by: rocketman on Dec 10, 2007 7:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no doubting science when you can prove it. Evolution seems to be with a doubt indisputable. Religious types discredit themselves whe they deny it's validity in evolution.

But when it comes to the universe in all it's grandness and expanse, it is true that no one can explain how the first speck of existence came to be, nor can this vastness we exist in even be fully comprehended.

How did something come from nothing.. interesting questions that for many leads to the theory of a helping hand by some greater being! Faith is a wonderful thing!

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» RE: A helping hand Posted by: aethr
» Big Bang Theory Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: johnclark
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: Big Bang Theory Posted by: johnclark
» RE: A helping hand Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Proof Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: A helping hand Posted by: Tombo
CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Dec 10, 2007 7:48 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this article is great. It exposes the hypocrisy that is rampant in right wing governance. Right wing is exclusive - excluding those who are not wealthy, (and keeping those who are not wealthy down), etc. The left wing is inclusive as it recognizes symbiosis as the natural process of living. I am very glad Mr. Gonsalves exposed the true origin of the "Survival of the Fittest" saying. It certainly makes sense in how this wrongheaded saying has been applied. As it stands, today's mores I believe should more aptly be termed "Survival of the Meanest and Greediest". What makes us human beings separate from animals is that we supposedly have the ability to have compassion and reason....and the assumption that we will use that to make a better world for all, not just for a select few. In any case, cronyism and lots of other advantages such as inherited wealth undermine the superiority theory quite well. Not one of the "Fittest" has ever done anything completely by himself, without mentors, without his predecessor's taxes paying for infrastructure, the courts, and our own federal state and local government's actions. However, the extremist, exclusive plutocratic ones would like you to think they embody true Darwinism - that they alone are superior by accomplishment. By getting others to believe this, they have been able to divide and conquer by suppressing wages for those who are "unskilled", and so on.

What accomplishments have these self-overrated humans done? I dare them to say that they did anything all by themselves. The constantly self congratulatory have no place in human life since no infant nor child could survive without help. Symbiosis is the true and rightful state of humanity.

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No imagination here!
Posted by: daniel1982 on Dec 10, 2007 8:49 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Folks who think evolution is an inherently atheist argument or those who think evolution disproves the existence of God are people with little imagination.

I'm afraid I am one of those people with little imagination. I don't see how you can square evolution with God. Evolutionary theory says we (and all life on earth) are explained by an unthinking process which started from very simple chemicals and progressed for hundred of millions of years and which had no particular goal in mind.

If you believe in God, and you believe he had a hand in our creation - whether he manipulated evolution as it progressed, or if he stacked the initial pre-condition before the Big Bang so that we may arise; This idea goes against the unplanned nature of evolutionary theory. In other words if you have God (intelligently) designing us, then that goes against evolution.

The Selfish Gene by Dawkins is probably one of the best books on Evolution and is accessible to the average reader. I got depressed for a few days after I read it as it destroyed my lingering faith in God. It left me with the notion that either Evolution is right or God is right, but not both at the same time.

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» RE: No imagination here! Posted by: Jbuuty
» SP Mistake Posted by: daniel1982
» Personal reasons Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: Personal reasons Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Personal reasons Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: Personal reasons Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: Creation, Evolution and Myth Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Creation, Evolution and Myth Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Creation, Evolution and Myth Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Creation, Evolution and Myth Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: No imagination here! Posted by: WillieD
» RE: No imagination here! Posted by: Jbuuty
Excellent article
Posted by: Jbuuty on Dec 11, 2007 1:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AMEN! I have found it very interesting (and sad) how conservatives and liberals, Christians and atheists, etc. have adopted the discredited theory of social Darwinism as the basic model for explaining social and economic differences.

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Sean Gonsalves rocks yet again
Posted by: johnclark on Dec 11, 2007 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's always brilliant, no matter what topic he takes on. I forwarded Sean's great work that appeared here on NCLB to my PTO list.

I've spent many years pondering the question of how social Darwinism has survived for so long. It's proponents have waged catastrophic wars, killed many millions through starvation, mis-measured us through biased IQ testing (Sean has also written well on this subject), and still this sociopathology named "survival of the fittest" has yet to be thrown into the dustbin of history.

I see it's survival tied to the survival of it's companion, the Dialectic, and its two German philosophers, Hegel & Marx, who put forward their dialectical theories. Much of the 20th century was the struggle of these twin theories. Just read "The End of History and the Last Man" to see what I mean. Fukuyama has wound up eating some of those words in public (to my great amusement).

When we talk about dialectical materialism, we also have to mention Marx's Robin: Freddy Engels. We all remember him, don't we? The communist who made his cash running England's dark, satanic mills (said mills responsible for global warming).

The social Darwinists spent much of their time destroying/belittling any worldview which got in it's way -- can you say Kronstadt, Barcelona, The Killing Fields ... on one side, Concentration camps, Iran-Contragate, War Worlds, the "Afgan-resistance" ... on the the other?

Liberal/conservative, capitalist/communist, republican/democrat, all share the blame to where we've come. When the Bible/Torah/Koran becomes a rulebook to punish people, the overarching message of said books -- love one another, or die, gets lost. When it becomes justification for ignorance, Calvinism (old skool social Darwinism), and murder, people like Dawkins will pop up to throw the thing out, including it's messages of humanism, love, and compassion.

And that won't us any closer to where we need to go, will it? We're still caught in this either or, black or white, right or wrong dialectical struggle to be explained as "survival of the fittest" in the winners history books, and used to justify every man for himself, and God against all.

MLK was murdered by the sociopaths because his revolutionary message was "love your enemy". At the time of his murder, he was organizing the Poor Peoples Campaign, whose goal was to bring all poor people together, black/white/brown/red/yellow. We know what happened after. The sociopaths were able to divide us yet again.

Although they tried, counter ideas such as mutual aid, co-operation, humanism, ... have yet to be snuffed out by the sociopaths. My copies of Kropotkin, Zinn, Perlman, and Comfort still sit on my shelf, and there ain't nothing they can do about it.

All of this has taught me to give up hate, anger, and selfishness. I've learned it's the only way I can evolve. Only when I walk in another man's moccasins will I be able to move him (or sometimes her). The only way we humans can survive will be to bury the DNA strands categorized as social Darwinism in the same London graveyard as Spencer & Marx.

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God is easy to find, if you want to...
Posted by: rcfa on Dec 11, 2007 11:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Darwinism asserts nothing about an "unthinking process". It asserts that evolution works by means of random i.e. stochastic processes and natural selection.

But what is random? Random is, what we can't explain with laws.

So if you have to have God, call God's influence in this world what we perceive as random processes, processes outside of laws, things that can only be described in aggregate as probabilities.

Got a problem with that? Then you truly lack imagination. If you can accept that God who's supposedly omni-present (like random processes), turned into a man with a white beard and took some lumps of clay and tried his luck as ceramic artist before coughing on the clay and turning it into living matter, then why is it impossible to accept that God works through random processes?

Oh, yeah, I forget, The Bible doesn't lie, and The Bible tells the truth.

Let's step back for a moment. If your two year old ask you how a computer works, are you going to start a lecture about quantum physics, transistors, logic gates, magnetism, etc. or are you going to make up a little metaphor to satisfy that curiosity in a way that your kid can comprehend?

What do you think some poor shepherds a few thousand years ago would have done if God had dropped a few volumes of scientific literature in their laps to explain how the world came about? I can tell you: they would have used it to start their camp fires.

Now you take the culture into account of the middle east, where ornamental story telling isn't considered lies, but an art form, and you instantly know that you have to be a moron to take The Bible as a factual account of how things happened.

So even if you're a believer, The Bible is a metaphor, that hints at the big picture and focuses on the moral/ethical aspects of belief, and does so in a language that could be understood with the knowledge and culture of its time. It's not supposed to be working as a science book today.

Once that's clear, science and religion, if you think you need to have it, can get along just fine.

Personally, I try to live in an ethical way, and if there's an afterlife or God, I'll find that out in time. In the mean time, I'm busy enough doing the right thing, rather than obsessing about and discriminating against people who have not found The One True Way.

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We know what we feel and what we reason
Posted by: PaulC on Dec 12, 2007 1:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I understand from listening to people of "faith" is that they are positing two alternative states of mind: the scientific and the emotive. The former they see as an operative state and the latter as a state of being. I think they get in trouble when they attempt to combine the two into one. You can have an emotive experience and there is nothing more that science can say about it except "ok, if you say so". And science can predict an outcome based upon reasoned analysis, while the emotive state can say nothing of it beyond transitioning to another emotive state. Sure, science might be able to predict emotive states but that knowledge does not alter the fact that the emotive state is what it is - it has its own internal reality that is the experience itself, while science has its own external reality that is what we usually refer to as "reality".

The difference here is that external reality reflects our faculty to reason and function, while internal reality is a state of being. Positing a god into external reality is pointless because the latter is an abstraction to the internal state of being - we do not, for example, emotively experience a pile of dirt, a plant or another being (although we can empathize with it, which is to adjust our internal emotive state).

Neither, however, does it lessen the emotive state by analyzing it or claiming to understand it, because it remains what it is, and any such understanding will be contextual at best because the abstraction of understanding can never actually become the emotive state, can never become concrete, and all proofs are based upon axioms which are abstractions.

The difference between Western and Eastern religions is that Western religion confuses external reality with emotive reality in order to exert control over its "flock", i.e. other beings inhabiting external reality. Eastern religion, on the other hand, understands this duality and makes no effort whatsoever to posit an external god. What it does instead is attempt to stimulate the emotive being to behave in ways that provide it stability and contentment, encourage it to embrace reason when dealing with reality and to enter into empathic states to increase harmony among all emotive beings.

Both religious models are "valid" insofar as they both exist, but I find the Eastern religions to be closer to "truth" (an abstraction) and at the very least more conducive to harmony in both external and emotive states of existence. To see this one need only look at the incessant hatred and violence that surrounds Western religion, its embrace of slavery, genocide and all manner of things in the pursuit of a command-and-control methodology that exists for its own sake. That is, it is an attempt to solidify the external reality into an emotive reality by enslaving the emotive reality to its external abstracted reality. This is a sort of neurosis that can, and does, create great harm to the emotive being and creates a "trapped external reality state" that is no longer responsive or aware. The latter results in the zomby-like cult thinking that gave us Jonestown and other suicide cults as well as primitive sacrificial rites.

peace,
Paul

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Social Darwinism is political payola
Posted by: PaulC on Dec 12, 2007 2:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, great article!

Now:

> So while science battles evolution-opponents, I'm trying to understand a conservative political species that opposes evolution on religious grounds while supporting social Darwinism on the political and economic grounds.
> There's a missing link here.

As outlined in my prior post, it is because Western religion confuses science and being that it opposes evolution. And it confuses the two because it seeks control in the real world, political control to create an institutionalized church.

It is because Western religion is a political animal, not a strictly religious one, that it promotes Social Darwinism. It does the latter because this gives moral cover to power-hungry men who control society in return for becoming anointed as the official state religion, squashing the competition and providing a luxurious lifestyle for its church leaders and ministers.

Just look at the luxurious lifestyles of the fundamentalist preachers, of all people. And look at how George Bush has worked feverishly to move these same fundamentalist religions into state sponsorship and state monies. This is no accident. It is a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch your back" sort of arrangement.

The tragedy in this is first how it tears down free society and enslaves its people. But what does it say about these religions that they feel the need to become secular to remain viable? Think of the tragedy of living a lie and being consumed by self-doubt and fearing how every new scientific discovery poses another threat to your religious beliefs. It is sad to see these people live their lives in fear, forcing them to scream ever louder "I am right and you are wrong!", spiraling into hatred of those different from themselves, shutting down the ability to reason for oneself out of utter fear of what lies beyond.


peace,
Paul

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Evolution vs. I.D.iocy
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Dec 12, 2007 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A polar opposite between these two is that, as a "THEORY" Evolution is something which sciense and scientists constantly explore in order to learn more.

The other stuff is put out by those other types as fact.

Therein lies the difference between those capable of free, deep thought and those who have theirs done for them.

The Darwinists are constantly attempting to LEARN more about evolution and all the atentive factors.

The id'ers have limited out at "case closed".

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THE FUNDAMENTAL LIE OF EVOLUTION
Posted by: aberdeen on Dec 12, 2007 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All evidence and human experience overwhelmingly indicates that nothing has ever designed itself from the top down, or appeared on it's own volition. No matter how many dominos one lines up, something has to cause the first dominio to fall or else, none of them will fall.

There is zero evidence that anything has ever appeared as a result of "natural", "unguided" processes. Thus, the modern theory of evolution is fundamentally, a lie, based on facts not in evidence.

It is infinitely less plausible to conclude that the universe appeared on it's own, than it is to conclude that the pyramids of Egypt appeared on their own, over a long period of historical time, without the aid of designers and builders.

Who is this author trying to kid, other than himself?

The Myth of Modern Science

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» Wow Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Wow Posted by: johnclark
I guess I' gotta get deeper on this one ...
Posted by: johnclark on Dec 12, 2007 10:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my last post, as I sometimes have trouble getting to the point.

Missing link = determinism (aka Calvinism, Zionism, economic-determinism{aka Marxism}, social Darwinism {RTFA}, ect, etc, etc)

In practice, determinism becomes the justification:

We must be GOD's chosen people because HE gave us the guns & horses we need in order to kill all of these Indians (NDN) and take their lands.

GOD gave Israel to the Jews in the Bible so it doesn't matter how many Arabs (Palestinians) die.

IQ tests prove that whites are smarter then blacks; that's why all of our presidents are white.

I could go on. Any thinking person, without having to think too much, can easily blow each one of the above statements up without really trying.

I believe in free will. I can't prove it though.

The first question to ponder is: did God put Eve in the garden knowing that she liked to make apple pie, or did he put her there because things didn't work out between Adam and Lilith?

Our scientists ponder that question by putting the Hubble in space and building the Large Hadron Collider. Just look at Islamic iconography to see both God and math together. In fact, I'm waiting to see if E8 can be proved when Hadron goes online.

But, of course, I'm wrong. An ID'er just gave me proof that dinosaurs and man lived on the Earth at the same time. It's a 22 minute science film called "The Flintstones".

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There is no god, there's a lot we don't know yet
Posted by: thekidde on Dec 12, 2007 2:17 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and we'll never know really cool stuff if the religious ignorance of the past and belief in magic and people in the sky keeps interfering with discovery. Shit happens, good people get cancer, prayer is bullshit, take care of yourself, your family and then your neighbor and don't elect any fundamentalists-they're all batshit crazy.

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Please See New American Prospect (Dec. 2007)
Posted by: jmmartin on Dec 12, 2007 4:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amazing that I came upon this bloglet even as I was reading (on the throne) an essay by Simon Lazarus in the new American Prospect, "Repealing the 20th Century." Lazarus's thesis is that the Roberts Court of Supremes appears to be hell-bent on reading into our Constitution enactment of Spencer's dimwitted theories on laissez-faire libertarianism. This involves an "aggressive campaign to neutralize constraints" on both business and government. (He notes that no less brilliant a justice than Holmes warned, in a 1905 decision, "The Constitution does not enact Mr. Herbert Spencer's Social Statics.") It is a fine article and dovetails nicely with this one. Recommended.

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» Lazarus' article site: Posted by: herbal
Knuckleheads and the First Amendment
Posted by: willymack on Dec 12, 2007 7:42 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's right there, folks; the very first words of that amendment give us freedom FROM religion as well as the right to practice any religion (or none at all), as we please. Religious fanatics have no business dictating what our public schools teach our children, and if they don't like it, they can get the hell out of this country.

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Cultural Inmaturity and Psychological Incongruity
Posted by: VoteHope on Dec 12, 2007 9:25 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The essence of the Social Darwinism and adaptation of misrepresentations of Darwin, if not denial of common sense, is the product of bad education and theater based knowledge.

We learn 80% of what we know from visual sensory input and when that visual information is interpreted for us we associate the visual information with auditory or textual information, which strengthens the thoughts and establishes long term memory. Incongruent thought can be established as easily as things that make sense.

Multiple reasonings accounting for the same event, such as creation of the world and our social order, should trigger a critical interpretation of the facts and resolve the accounts as factual, reasonable, and real, or not. Religious views are all complex and reasonable, but they differ enough that they can not agree or explain things using the same laws of nature or reason. Therefore, one is more correct than others would also be a kind of intellectual Darwinism and those who adapt to this "one" explanation are voluntarily rationalizing an denying the validity of the other equally valid non factual explanations religions offer.

It would seem that over time people would see our history, as we do our own childhoods, and realize the things that are in common with others and things we take seriously that remain infantile in retrospect. At one point in our lives cartoons seem realistic and after conservation of volume, mass, form, time, and other dimensions of cognitive realization, we know what is more real and cartoons have their own logic and are not real.

From Quetzalcoatl to Zeus and Buddha to Mohamed and Christ to Spider Woman and thousands of other creation deities we know people want to know how, who, what, when, where, about our existence and beginnings. We also know each religion is as real as any other to the people who believe them. They are art forms and philosophical structures that help people order their lives and societies.

That said, when will we see that those variations of god and believers also form groups who kill each other because of their religious convictions. The idea of a god permitting war, mass murder, starvation, mutated infants, disease, and continued ignorance of ourselves is a god of hate and like Bergman's spider concept, a monster.

God is a concept of our own infantile wish to control our world, our lives, and other people. The explanations of creation are cartoon logic and offer a dummy down effect to critical thinking in exchange for belonging to like minded needy damaged people.

Look at this video of the Mormon religion. They are all variations of the anthropomorphic rendering of deities and projected ego or self as important to the deity, and this video shows the clear cartoon logic of the idea of a "god."

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/233.html

We need to mature as a species and move our cultures beyond cartoon logic and psychological incongruity based religious authority. Life is too short for this nonsense.

One world

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Render to Ceasar...
Posted by: macdon1 on Dec 12, 2007 9:45 PM   
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It seems even Jesus agreed with the separation of church and state when he stated "render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's." However, it does not mean that the public sector is exempt from following basic moral principles. It seems a lot of folks in public life equate right wing religious fanaticism with morality. Recent events have demonstrated that they barely have a nodding acquaintance.

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Resolution of Evolution
Posted by: herbal on Dec 12, 2007 10:43 PM   
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There is a disarmingly easy way to reconcile the fundamentalist Christians and Science.

My friend, perhaps even best friend is a Conservative Baptist, and I (Degree in anthropology), came to agreement or mutual understanding. A true faith in God for Christians entails a belief in One God. Man is incapable of knowing the mind of God and is exceedingly vain to pretend to know how He created and creates. Yes, God continues to create, we agreed, and there is agreement among all Christians that there is spirtual evolution or unfoldment. What thinking Christian would pretend by faith to know details of how creation was accomplished or that it is finished? Furthermore, if we wish to impart our Christian beliefs into our children, we would not set ourselves up for failure by tempting our faith with opposing scientific, demonstrable fact. For example, bacteria can be seen mutating under a microscope, or birth defects are mutations. Evolution, by a body of evidence, consists of two variables; mutation and genetic drift. Genetic drift is evidenced by dog and dairy cow breeding.

Put simply, our main point of convergence is this: If God is omniscient and omnipotent, The Creator, by definition, is responsible for Creation whatever science proves or disproves and whatever God's methods. Are we mortals going to limit God's power by saying that one of God's days is equal to a mans' day in Creation (Genesis)? Man or TV preachers are going to put their expectations forth as limits to God's power and ability?

Conversely, Creationism irreconcilable? Science is not pretending to place a spurious definition of what was before the 'big bang' or why it is thought there was cause for one. Einstein was deeply spiritual, for example, saying, "There is a greater intelligence at work in the universe besides man's". Isn't it interesting how God works? How science works? Where is the dichotomy? A priori, it does not exist. If Darwin (the Presbyterian minister) found out, God was the final cause for it all anyway. An abiding and confident faith knows science is simply description and technological exploitation (not necessarily good) of the universe.

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» You missed the point. Posted by: herbal