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There Goes the Electrical Grid

By Molly Ivins, AlterNet. Posted July 12, 2005.


We're about to repeat a huge mistake that will let the big oil companies jack up our electric rates.
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The trouble with deregulation is that it always takes some disaster like Enron before we realize there was a reason for the regulation to begin with.

We are about to repeat one of the huge mistakes of the 1920s and '30s because we have forgotten why PUHCA (pronounced Pooka) was instituted in the first place. PUHCA is the Public Utility Holding Company Act, passed in 1935, which prevents concentration of ownership of power plants. Both the House and Senate versions of the energy bill contain a repeal of PUHCA.

As Kelpie Wilson points out in an article for Truthout, "For 50 years we have had reliable, cheap electric power that has allowed strong economic growth, and no PUHCA-regulated energy holding company has ever gone broke."

PUHCA was partially repealed in the '90s, and even that much deregulation was part of what led to Enron, Westar and other slight mishaps.

PUHCA puts utilities under strict regulation by both state and federal governments. It restricts ownership of utilities to public or private companies that are in the business of producing power.

The most likely candidates to take over power companies are the big oil companies, now awash in cash. There goes the electrical grid: Why fix it when you can charge more for doing nothing?

Lynn Hargis, an attorney who spent 10 years at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and is now with Public Citizen, says repeal means a repeat of the same dreary mistakes. In the 1920s, three huge companies owned half of the nation's power plants and built them into speculative power-holding companies that used the reliable money from utilities for flights of fancy in the stock market.

When you are paying your electric bill to ExxonMobil, Halliburton or some Chinese firm, you will see why this is a monumentally bad idea. (Speaking of the veep's former home company, according to HalliburtonWatch.org, the company is employing its workers in Iraq through its subsidiary in the Cayman Islands. This means Halliburton won't have to pay unemployment benefits for the workers when they return home.)

CROW EATEN HERE: This is a horror. In a column written June 28, I asserted that more Iraqis (civilians) had now been killed in this war than had been killed by Saddam Hussein over his 24-year rule. WRONG. Really, really wrong.

The only problem is figuring out by how large a factor I was wrong. I had been keeping an eye on civilian deaths in Iraq for a couple of months, waiting for the most conservative estimates to creep over 20,000, which I had fixed in my mind as the number of Iraqi civilians Saddam had killed.

The high-end estimate of Iraqi civilian deaths in this war is 100,000, according to a Johns Hopkins University study published in the British medical journal The Lancet last October, but I was sticking to the low-end, most conservative estimates because I didn't want to be accused of exaggeration.

Ha! I could hardly have been more wrong, no matter how you count Saddam's killing of civilians. According to Human Rights Watch, Hussein killed several hundred thousand of his fellow citizens. The massacre of the Kurdish Barzani tribe in 1983 killed at least 8,000; the infamous gas attack on the Kurdish village of Halabja killed 5,000 in 1988; and seized documents from Iraqi security organizations show 182,000 were murdered during the Anfal ethnic cleansing campaign against Kurds, also in 1988.

In 1991, following the first Gulf War, both the Kurds and the Shiites rebelled. The allied forces did not intervene, and Saddam brutally suppressed both uprisings and drained the southern marshes that had been home to a local population for more than 5,000 years.

Saddam's regime left 271 mass graves, with more still being discovered. That figure alone was the source for my original mistaken estimate of 20,000. Saddam's widespread use of systematic torture, including rape, has been verified by the U.N. Committee on Human Rights and other human rights groups over the years.

There are wildly varying estimates of the number of civilians, especially babies and young children, who died as a result of the sanctions that followed the Gulf War. While it is true that the ill-advised sanctions were put in place by the United Nations, I do not see that that lessens Hussein's moral culpability, whatever blame attaches to the sanctions themselves -- particularly since Saddam promptly corrupted the Oil for Food Program put in place to mitigate the effects of the sanctions, and used the proceeds to build more palaces, etc.

There have been estimates as high as 1 million civilians killed by Saddam, though most agree on the 300,000 to 400,000 range, making my comparison to 20,000 civilian dead in this war pathetically wrong.

I was certainly under no illusions regarding Saddam Hussein, whom I have opposed through human rights work for decades. My sincere apologies. It is unforgivable of me not have checked. I am so sorry.

Digg!

Molly Ivins writes about politics, Texas and other bizarre happenings.

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Proof Molly's no conservative
Posted by: drmeow on Jul 12, 2005 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not that we needed it, but this article is proof positive that Molly's no conservative. No conservative columnist would ever admit that they were wrong and apologize for it - especially not a mistake that would take some effort to fact check. Kudos to you, Molly! (Even if we haven't killed more people than Saddam did, the war is still wrong and, if we keep it up for as long as Saddam was in power, we’ll probably surpass his number.)

» RE: Proof Molly's no conservative Posted by: patriotlawyer
» RE: Proof Molly's no conservative Posted by: Captain America
» RE: Proof Molly's no conservative Posted by: redskins_fan
Energy concerns for us all
Posted by: Joel on Jul 12, 2005 6:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for all the great writing over the years... I appreciate the insight into Oil Companies buying up Electric Companies because it just makes sense...they are not investing in renewable energy sources much, nor in oil exploration, so I'm thinking you are right on target.

Hooray for integrity
Posted by: bettsoff on Jul 12, 2005 6:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The BA goons could take a lesson in owning up to their mistakes.

We're probably more efficient than Saddam
Posted by: ecr111 on Jul 12, 2005 8:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's say 100,000 Iraqis have died as a result of our actions over the past 2 years. That's 50,000 per year. If Saddam killed 300,000 over 30 years, that's 10,000 per year. So we're killing Iraqi civilians 5 times faster than Saddam did! Even if the actual number is 20,000, that's still 10,000 per year, matching Saddam's rate.

Why aren't they celebrating their new liberation? Do they hate freedom? And why don't you see these numbers in the news?

Now, now, Molly!
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 13, 2005 3:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, I love you, Molly Ivins! You're a national treasure. You made a error of fact and you promptly admitted it. The administration of George W. Bush has, for almost five years now, made one stupid blunder after another on top of too many lies to count. Entire volumes have been written about those lies with more to come I'm sure. At a press conference last year the First Fool was asked to name one error of judgement he made during his term of office - just one! Could he think of one? Nah!

Don't be too hard on yourself, Molly. Cole Porter put it well, "You're the tops!
Love,
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

» RE: Now, now, Molly! Posted by: Arminius
» RE: Now, now, Molly! Posted by: Tom Degan
» Hey Kool Aid Man!!! Posted by: sinland41
America is killing innocent Iraqi's
Posted by: apodapa on Jul 13, 2005 3:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And one innocent Iraqi civilian killed by the United States is a war crime.

Ownership of oil companies
Posted by: bookwoman on Jul 13, 2005 6:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, should we sell Unocal to the Chinese. That would really diversify ownership of one of the biggest oil producers in the country. Still I would rather see an American conglomerate own it than have it go into foreign hands where it can be used to manipulate oil prices. Remember how the Japanese lost World War II and then came back to win the economic wars. We should go back and read the "Art of War". "War" is not necessarily a violent act; it can be carried out in other ways.

» RE: Ownership of oil companies Posted by: whereisthe logic
Energy Bill - No Suprise
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jul 13, 2005 6:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Though we the people have the clout;
To vote the politicians out;
We'd still be ruled by sleazy "smarties";
Who give money to both parties;
And here's the truth without a doubt;
We can't vote those rascals out.

http://www.lincolninitiative.org

It does no good to rant and holler;
We can't outvote the mighty dollar;
The people that our votes elected;
Work for the dollars they've collected;
For citizens to take the reins;
We'll have to finance all campaigns

Blinders
Posted by: wbell on Jul 13, 2005 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's depressing how willing even an intelligent author like Molly is to sweep under the rug the fact that the Clinton administration carried on Bush Sr's genocidal sactions and kept the Iraq war going, resulting in the death of over 1 million people. To only count the deaths that occured during the current administration's stewardship of this insane violence is very dishonest. To deal with this war, the American public needs to confront the fact that this war of conquest has been fully supported by both parties for over 10 years now, at the cost of millions of lives and billions of dollars. The Iraq war did not stop when Bush Sr left office, and did not start up again from scratch when Bush Jr invaded. Something very signification was gonig on in that time, and it should not be swept under the rug.

» RE: Blinders Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Blinders Posted by: tjpsgem
» RE: Blinders Posted by: jawbone
» You're nuts Posted by: sinland41
TagsNOLA
Posted by: TagsNOLA on Jul 13, 2005 7:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You gotta hand it to the lady, she even eats CROW with panache!

She is right, of course, about repeal of PUHCA and about deregulation in general. Dick Cheney and company, even in the face of Enron and other speculative corporate scandals is going full steam ahead with his "neo-chaos" agenda. He is a slimeball among slimeballs, the "Lex Luthor" of American business and politics. He has no shame. Long before Enron and other speculative robber baron companies were ripping off the electric utility rate base in California, Lyndon LaRouche and his friends were warning that this was the inevitable result of energy deregulation. Indeed it has been the OBJECTIVE of deregulation all along. Ms. Ivins was bang on when she wrote that the objective of PUHCA was to staunch the hemmorage of revenues from electric utilities into the hair brained speculative schemes of a band of blood sucking parasites. But the abuses go well beyond siphoning off of revenues and diverting the funds away from investments in routine maintenance and capital improvements of the power grid. Electric power has been transformed into a commodity for speculation even as the underlying infrastructurue is being gutted by other schemes such as asset stripping. This is also ongoing not only in the power grid, but also in the transportation grid, most notably the airlines and railroads.

The reforms of the FD Roosavelt administration are being systematically dismantled to meet the demands of the neo-fascist neo-con crowd for more tribute. They have obtained control over the institutions of state and over the mass media while the population has been put to sleep, robbed of its vitality with catastropically dumbed down (outcome based) public education, mind numbing entertainment, drugs and sex.

Interesting that Halliburton is using an offshore Grand Caymen Island cutout corp. to pay their help in Iraq. It is bad enough that the Whitehouse lets them get away with this, but even worse that Congress had not intervened to stop this and other equally flagrant abuses. Congress is not doing its job of "oversight."

Sincerely,

TagsNOLA

Have we all be deceived about Hussein?
Posted by: LoisC on Jul 13, 2005 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is Hussein really guilty of all that our gov't is claiming he did? If you read the article below you may discover it was the US and not Hussein that was responsible for the deaths referred to in Molly's Article.

The Falklands Alternative
America’s motive for invading Iraq
The Falklands Alternative

You don't ever see any of our presidents walking freely among US citizens without guards .. why is that. Just one quote from this excellent article:

"Even today in 2003, all Iraqi citizens are free to carry loaded automatic weapons on the street, because President Hussein has nothing to fear from his own people."

When we will stop believing what the US gov't, CIA, the U.N. and others say about countries they seek to destroy or steal resources from?

A model of the right way to admit wrong
Posted by: lorijh on Jul 13, 2005 8:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a different world this would be if our leaders simply followed the Molly's model here: admit it when you're wrong, and be willing to look at how or why you erred. This only further raises my esteem of you, Molly.

boydranchitos
Posted by: boydranchitos on Jul 13, 2005 9:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly, allow me to concur with the many others here by saying thanks for providing the example of how adults behave when they have mispoken. Too bad examples are so badly needed right now.
Thanks for all you have done and continue to do. What a fine American!

Arne
Posted by: arayhans on Jul 13, 2005 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I appreciate Molly's aplolgy, she should pack her bags and go live in Iraq without all our freedoms. I have family members fighting to keep the terrorists out of this country and they are protecting us from the ilk of Molly Ivins who claims journalistic freedom to lambast all Americans by comparing the number of dead there at the hand of a tyrant and brutal dictator and with the number who died while our troops (i.e. - us!) were there. We have gone to remove the madman Saddam Hussein and liberate the Iraqi people and if she is properly counting perhaps she needs to add a third category. How about listing how many the Terrorists killed in this time frame. While we removed Saddam, most of the deaths Molly Ivins should be counting should be attributed to the evil, callous, terrorists who murder and maim innocent people at will. Why don't you tell that truth and stop supporting the terrorists and giving them more rights and credence than our honorable military who are fighting to keep those creeps from your front door.

Your misquotes are verbal terrorist bombs aimed at harming my family and me. We will defend your freedom to speak but I think you should sit down, shut up and retire into never-never land. Go sit in some corner and meditate on the damage you have done along with Hanoi Jane and Senator Kerry, Senator Kennedy and the other whining liberals who are working to bring on socialism and communism.

"Shame on you" is hardly enough to equal the harm you have done. Apology accepted but watch every word you speak. And start being pro-American for a while if you can.

» RE: Arne Posted by: ryanu
» RE: Arne Posted by: rogerg
» RE: Arne Posted by: medicinestick
genaboo
Posted by: genaboo on Jul 13, 2005 2:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes apparrently removing this madman was a real mistake, to think that if you had your way he and his sons would still be raping, killing, looting, and stealing the rest of the worlds aid. Yes I agree the world must have been a better place with him still in power. Hey if this invasion was such a bad idea perhaps you would be in favor of the US just letting him go and saying "we're really sorry"

Willingness to correct
Posted by: Santa Fe Dude on Jul 13, 2005 2:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was glad to see Molly being willing to correct her massive error. Hate interferes with clear thought. If Molly could give up a lot of her Bush hate and Republican hate maybe we could all try to figure out how to make the World a better place.

Remember the Marsh Arabs..a glorious culture that Saddam Hussein destroyed. Thank goodness Bush took steps to eliminate the sanctions on the Iraqi people especially the children.

It is a shame that a less violent method wasn't found to achieve that worthwhile goal. Maybe without partisan politics here and our competition with Old Europe, a better solution might have been found.

The mind continues to boggle
Posted by: sterlingwisdom on Jul 13, 2005 2:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I continue to be amazed at how some people think (and I use the term loosely).
Molly Ivins discovers she made a mistake and publicly corrects herself. No one else made her do it. She did it on her own. According to one writer this makes her a "liar." How in the world does that compute?
Another says the war in Iraq is legal because the Dems voted for it. The Dems did so after Bush lied to them. So by that writer's logic if I convince you to give me money, say to invest in my business, by lying to you that is legal because you gave me the money.
Another writer . . . but I grow weary. Molly Ivins is an intelligent woman and an excellent writer. She may not always be right but she is always reasonable. Which is much more than can be said for a large number of her critics.

If Molly were really honest...
Posted by: Arminius on Jul 13, 2005 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She would report the number of Iraqi children who died as a result of sanctions Bill Clinton fought to keep placed on Iraq because Clinton said Iraq had WMD. The Duelfer Report stated that Saddam had essentially dismantled his WMD programs in 1991.

When Lesley Stahl confronted Madeleine Albright with the figure of 500,000 dead children, Albright, responded, "The price is worth it." Osama picked up on this and said he would send Clinton "messages with no words" in response. Those messages were delivered in August 1998, October 2000, and, of course, 9/11.

http://www.retroactiveimpeachment.com

» Nice Try Posted by: sinland41
» RE: Nice Try Posted by: Arminius
» RE: EXCUSE ME!!!??? Posted by: chemwarman
» RE: an apology Posted by: chemwarman
Just who has died and who has done the killing.
Posted by: AbeDrinkin on Jul 13, 2005 2:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for admitting and correcting your mistake. It takes a certain level of maturity to reexamine facts which were previously fixed in your mind. This separates you from many (of the most vocal) people on both side of this debate. With that in mind I would invite you and whoever else might be reading this to take a minute and look at a few pages of this DATABASE and look past all the talking points.

Take a look at who has been killed. And who has done the killing. Its all there in a plain black on gray table format. Who knows maybe someone will examine the facts and form an opinion from those facts, rather than the other way around.

Damned if We Do ..., & Bush Lies? ...
Posted by: windex66 on Jul 13, 2005 2:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good to see at least one Liberal journalist has (finally) checked the facts. Isn't America - or let's say non-Liberal Presidents - always set up for a "Damned if We Do, Damned if We Don't" Conundrum by the Liberal media? If Bush had done nothing after 9/11... they would tell us how weak he was. (And why was our bombing Serbia OK? And how many civilians did Clinton kill?) BTW, you note that I don't claim Bush is a Conservative - he is a Country Club Republican, not a Conservative in the ways of George Will or Ronald Reagan.

20,000? Seems like it still might be an inflated number to me... how many of these folks, anyway, were really murderers, rapists, torturers, and thugs?

Bush Lied? Excuse me... so that also means that Al Gore, Bill Clinton, the Israelis, Madeline Halfbright, etc., also lied? BESIDES - our strength got us Libya!!! HUGE victory! PLEASE read the New York Times OP-ED piece titled: "Mideast Climate Change." (Do an exact title search in yahoo or google.) Even the Liberal NYT gives Bush some huge kudos. Sometimes when you make eggs you have to break a few eggs.

I sometimes wish Blair and Bush would launch air strikes against every terrorist training camp - all at once, at night - no ifs, no ands, no butts. Pakistan, Syria, etc. The day we wake up with a nuclear bomb going off in Chicago or Philly, we will respond in a far worse manner.

Cheerio, Mark

P.S. Unemployement now at 5%!!!!

CyberWarrior
Posted by: CyberWarrior on Jul 13, 2005 3:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly,

Considering your age (and mine), you should find it appalling that anyone (including yourself) would refer to the civilian casualties in Iraq as war crimes. Moreover, to even insinuate or point a finger at anyone wearing the uniform or acting on behalf of the United States (e.g., the Bush Administration) is wanting for historical accuracy. Deliberately fire-bombing Japanese cities night after night (100,000 dead in one night in Tokyo alone) or working with the Brits to destroy Dresden, Germany, via the setting of a deliberate fire storm (80,000-120,000 dead in one night) are really elements of war crimes. How quickly we forget that one of the most liberal presidents in our country’s history (FDR) led the US Armed Forces when these atrocities occurred. Yet, as a true liberal, you look to spread disinformation, ask us to accept your mea culpa, and then write another article attacking the free enterprise system. Guess you must have forget about the success of LBJ’s “Great Society” (a total failure) as well – something he thought would be paid for by tax revenue generated from the corporations manufacturing war material during the war in Viet Nam. Of course, another aspect of a liberal is the constant support of dumb-downed public schools. If your readers were truly educated, they would be able to see through your political diatribes masquerading as editorial opinion, and they would also know what history has taught us, which is why the US military shows far more restraint under a Republican president than it ever did under any Democratic president in history.

» RE: CyberWarrior Posted by: medicinestick
what are you smoking?
Posted by: tapir on Jul 13, 2005 3:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congratulations to Ms. Ivins for admitting her mistake. The posted comments, however, are mostly pitiful. Don't you see a difference in innocents dying by Saddam's intentional acts, as opposed to those who have died as an unfortunate consequence of our removing Saddam and trying to help Iraq? Take a deep breath, pretend Clinton is still President, and ask yourself why innocent civilians are still dying in Iraq. If you can name one goal, other than "death to the infidels", of the terrorists we're fighting there, I'd love to hear it.

Molly is a perfect example...
Posted by: coloradopete on Jul 13, 2005 3:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly is a perfect example of someone who uses inflammatory rhetoric to get you left wingers all crazed with anger over an issue she KNEW was wrong from the beginning. And Molly, if you honestly thought that more Iraqi civilians were killed by this US war than Saddam killed in his 25 years of tyranny, than you are not even qualified to teach 1st Grade History. let alone "report" on this issue.

So the point is, that Molly KNEW that what she was saying couldn't have possibly been accurate unless she is a complete idiot, which I'm sure is not true. Therefore, unless she is an idiot, she was engaging in politically based, left-wing and anti-American rhetoric for the sake of jazzing up you uneducated lefties who possibly believed her non-sensical "fact" that Saddam had killed less people than the USA has in 3 years.

And I might add that Iraqi civilians in this war who died, were not killed deliberatly by the USA, as Saddam deliberately killed his victims with mass executions, poison gas, torturing, maiming, putting people into sacks and then tossing them over a building ledge...I could go on.

While Molly has apologized, it is too late and not enough. She knew from the beginning that she was wrong, yet put it out there for you people to digest. Once the effect wore off, she then recanted...quite a transparent move that any semi-intelligent person could detect.

Thumbs up Molly
Posted by: Tom in Oregon on Jul 13, 2005 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly,

As an unabashed member of the right wing conspiracy, needless to say I disagree with you on most everything.

But I serve another Master, one who spoke of grace and forgiveness. It takes a bit of guts to step up to the plate, admit your error and apologize. For what it is worth, you are forgiven to the extent that I can grant forgiveness and grace.

Let's move on.

» RE: Thumbs up Molly Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Thumbs up Molly Posted by: medicinestick
» RE: Thumbs up Molly Posted by: Tom in Oregon
Without Morals
Posted by: Dale 1 on Jul 13, 2005 3:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly Ivins is a left-wing liberal idiot. Obviously this site is edited to only include left-wing liberal views, so I don’t expect anyone will read this.

Anyone paying any attention to almost anything would have to dismiss Molly as an idiot. How could she have missed the gassing of the Kurds? How could she have missed the total disregard of 15 UN Resolutions? How could she have missed the repeated violation of the “No-Fly Zone” firing on coalition forces?

More recently, did Molly notice the filmed achievements of “beheadings”? There were three. One of them (with sound) added the squealing of a pig being killed – for affect). Cool – Only the United States of America is worst, according to her. The US raised/lower the A/C in a murderer’s cell. Now that’s something to report----

» RE: Without Morals Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Without Morals Posted by: Reconman
Otis
Posted by: Otis on Jul 13, 2005 3:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kudos on admitting Saddam's ethnic cleansing and murder. What I don't understand is that Clinton went to war in the Balkans for the same thing, yet liberals remained silent. Not only was the Hussein Regime engaged in mass murder, torture, rape, and ethnic cleansing, the UN admitted that beaucoup weapons of mass destruction were unaccounted for. Why does the current administration deserve to be constantly be criticized by liberals for not finding all of the WMD? Oh, I forgot - they're Republican.

Don't Worry Molly It Was The Thought That Counts
Posted by: Leblow on Jul 13, 2005 4:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am grief stricken. Why did you apologize? You never apologize no matter how wrong you are when you are attacking the Bush adminstration. Facts are not important. Emotion is what is important and dead civilian headcounts no matter how outrageously wrong add fuel to the fire. Retract your apology now.

Remember, we want the death penalty for Karl Rove!! Bush continues to authorize dumping of toxic chemicals in the Potomac. And you know the rest of what we say. Just say it and quit apologizing. Howard Dean just says what pops into that head of his and he NEVER apologizes even though he is never right.

Apologize to the troops
Posted by: freeyoke on Jul 13, 2005 4:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, Ivins opened her big mouth without checking the facts and apologized for being gullible. She's only sorry it wasn't true. Inflating civilians deaths would help make every man and woman into babykillers (a la Vietnam). This dovetails with the stupid prison stories about Abu Grabhib and Gitmo that few care about and only serve as ammo for the far left and propaganda in the Arab world.

Wars are sad affairs but repeating lies does reveal a political agenda. Better to tar Bush and company with the Iraqi tarbaby for the 2008 election than try to have a relatively stable and democratic Iraq. Remember Kerry's plan for Iraq? There never was one beyond trying to recruit 40,000 more US soldiers. I say this to ANY political partisan. "If you don't have a better plan, shut your yap."

just a second here
Posted by: vivvy on Jul 13, 2005 4:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For heaven's sake, we are losing sight of the point. Saddam's murderous evil acts were wrong. So are ours. Any killing of innocents is wrong and evil. We can argue forever about who is worse, how to interpret statistics, who killed more or at greater rates than who.
Molly again shows her sanity and integrity by taking responsibility for an error. She has done more to bring light to injustice for more years than almost anyone, by very far, and sniping at her is again missing the point.
Obfuscating doen not change reality, just messes it up more.
The need here is to make all violence an unthinkable response, period. The whole consciousness of the human race has has to be brought into the light. This is easy and fun, kids, try it! See, it feels good already, just thinking of it!

» You people don't get it Posted by: sinland41
The nuke nightmare
Posted by: freeyoke on Jul 13, 2005 4:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The day we wake up with a nuclear bomb going off in Chicago or Philly, we will respond in a far worse manner."

That used to be a fantasy but now I think will happen in my lifetime. Bush will get blamed anyway for NOT doing enough to combat terrorism. I wonder what Pres. Hilliary Clinton (God forbid) will do if an American city is nuked? First, blame Bush. Second, apologize to the terrorists since we pissed them off. Third, fire a few cruise missiles off in retaliation. Fourth, accuse the vast right-wing conspiracy of treason for questioning her patriotism.

Molly has apologized and should have
Posted by: modmission on Jul 13, 2005 4:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly was wrong and owned up to it . The President of the United States has not ordered the execuction of civilians . The United States Military has made every effort to save life while battling terrorism. Somewhere someone said , War is Hell. I agree. However I agree with the fact that in order to get to Heaven you got to raise a little Hell.

Thanks Ms. Ivins...but, uh....
Posted by: aubreyw on Jul 13, 2005 5:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uhhh....I think it's great Ms. Ivins made such a gracious retraction and correction....I'm just wondering why a national columnist wasn't aware of the magnitude of deaths caused by Saddam as a matter of course.....it's not like this item hasn't been in the news the past decade or so. I would venture a guess that not even Napoleon Dynamite would have gotten this one wrong.

The liberal default position: Blame America First
Posted by: sinland41 on Jul 13, 2005 5:07 PM   
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Lefties like Molly Ivans and Dickie Durben profess support for our troops in one breath and accuse them of committing mass atrocities in another. Ms. Ivans claimed that "we" read: our heroic service men and women killed more Iraqi civilians than Saddam. Senator Durben compared the actions of our troops to that of Adolph Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot.

What lefties fail to understand is that America doesn't target civilians and we treat our captured enemies better than the best prisions our own troops have ever had to endure. What other country uses tax payer dollars to supply religious materials and "Culturally appropriate" meals?

I hope your crow was tasty, Ms. Ivans. But you still don't get it. Instead of blaming America and our troops first, maybe you should get your head out of your rear and look at the real horrors that our enemies are committing against innocent men and women all around the world.

Body Count Contest II: US versus al Quaeda
Posted by: splendid on Jul 13, 2005 5:07 PM   
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Hmm. From 2000 through today, who has killed the most noncombatants in the entire world?

Is it al Quaeda or the US military and its contractors?

The key word is "waiting"
Posted by: jeff54321 on Jul 13, 2005 5:39 PM   
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The tell-all keyword in Molly's statement is "waiting."

Molly says:

"I had been keeping an eye on civilian deaths in Iraq for a couple of months, WAITING for the most conservative estimates to creep over 20,000, which I had fixed in my mind as the number of Iraqi civilians Saddam had killed."

By using the word "waiting" Molly is essentially making it known that she's anxious for the Iraqi civilian death toll to top 20,000. Shame on you, Molly.

RE: Careful: Sensitive Information that might burst your bubbles!
Posted by: Reconman on Jul 13, 2005 6:11 PM   
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All deaths in Iraq during his removal and reestablishment of stability rest squarly on the shoulder of Sadam and those who are complicit (including War protestors world wide). Take your responsibility and try to sleep until morning.

Apology unaccepted
Posted by: US_Soldier on Jul 13, 2005 6:32 PM   
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I am currently in Baghdad, have been for almost a year.

One of my solders asked me, "Why do Americans hate us?"
I didn't understand and asked him to explain. "Every day in every paper and on TV they are saying we are commiting attrocities. They make us sound horrible."

I assured him that is not what the American people think. I told him when you go home on leave and walk through DFW you will know that the real Americans, that matter, appreciate what you do.

To all of you Democrats, Media Types, and Anti-war protestors,

Each time you sensationalize a trivial story you kill Americans, every time you call for our withdrawal you bolster the insurrection. Yes, you have the right to say what you want and I am willing to lay down my life defending your rights. There are ideas worth fighting for and dying for. If Americans are not willing to fight for freedom and democratic government world wide, who will?

The price for freedom in this world is the blood of the American soldier. No nation has ever gained or preserved its freedom without the American soldier.

So Molly we dont want you to apologize for you inaccuaracies. We want you to apologize for supporting and giving hope to the enemy. We want you to apologize for hoping the American Army will fail in Iraq so Bush and the Republicans will fail. You seem concerned about the deaths in Iraq, what have you ever done to make it better?

» RE: Apology unaccepted Posted by: freeyoke
» RE: Apology unaccepted Posted by: PowerTeam
Waiting...?
Posted by: evdebs on Jul 13, 2005 7:28 PM   
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Your tough and no nonsense apology for the screw-up on the numbers of those murdered by Saddam is without reproach. At the same time, I find it a bit strange that anyone would sit around watchng a death toll increase to the point where it might be used to make a political statement: "I had been keeping an eye on civilian deaths in Iraq for a couple of months, waiting for the most conservative estimates to creep over 20,000, which I had fixed in my mind as the number of Iraqi civilians Saddam had killed."
Will you answer this question: Was it a matter of simply waiting...or was it one of waiting and hoping for the toll of those slaughtered men, women and children to reach your magic number?