Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi was interviewed by a human rights group 2 weeks ago. During that interview, he stated that he was tortured during a 2002 interrogation designed to make him state that Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda were working together. He has just died of "apparent suicide" in a Libyan prison.

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Obama has been one disappointment after another since maybe February.

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The wrong body armour, vehicles not safe enough to withstand various IED's, inadequate medical care, worse care for mental disorders, multiple deployments to Iraq, and the list goes on. Like everything else these pictures will leak out and we'll see them anyway. Aren't we allowed to see what we're like? Who the hell cares what the Conservatives think. They're the ones who ordered all this. Will the pictures embarass Rush and Cheney? What gives, Mr. President? You're turning into a wimp. If we wanted conservatives calling the shots we would have voted for them. It's early on in your administration. Still time to grow a spine and act like a leader. This is not a popularity contest. I can't believe I'm writing this. And find out who runs these "stress Clinics". Fire them and put people in place who know what they're doing. Five soldiers are dead because they screwed up. They 'endangered our troops'. They should pay their dues. That's life. Lastly, alot of us out here prefer to know what's going on. We have that right. You might think about respecting it. The pictures will make their way out to the publc no matter what you do. Thanks, ANNA

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I guess W wasn't the ONLY Unitary Executive, huh?

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Obama had a chance, taking charge at a moment of unprecedented, simultaneous economic, military, diplomatic and constitutional crises, to take the high road and restore the rule of law, the Constitution, and a fair, transparent and sustainable economic system. Instead he has taken the low road and richly rewarded his fat-cat bankster contributors, the military-industrial complex, and war criminals.

It should be clear to everyone by now that both of the major parties are hopeless. We have to shake ourselves out of the self-fulfilling prophecies that small parties always fail, roll up our sleeves, and get enough Independents, Greens, Libertarians or whatever elected to the House in 2010 to deny either major party a majority. We will then be in a position to exert a great deal of influence to get our country back on track before it's too late--if it's not already.

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Obama finally putting America first..screw the ACLU, there only agenda is harming America. They could care less about our troops defending this nation or their right to harm this nation.. They care more about our enemy!

Lets hope Obama can stand strong and ignor them much like Bush did for the good of the nation!

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Obama just lost me 100%. What a kick in the teeth.

Hope he's content with being a one-term president.

I watched with great pride Senator Sheldon Whitehouse today holding hearings about torture. He's doing it to set up a perfect prosecution for these criminals. He's laying out the case, building a solid base. And Leahy is going to hold hearings to build on Sen. Whitehouse's sub-committee's findings. They are doing what is called "Due Diligence."

Only to have the President begin to pull the rug out from under their efforts. How else does Obama plan to undermine the prosecutions for the crimes committed under the Bush Junta?

I never would have thought that Obama would back Dick Cheney over the Democrats in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

I'm beyond disappointed... I'M SO PISSED OFF!

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President Obama has revealed that his primary concern is perception management. What became of all that talk about truth and transparency? Oh I get it. BHO would would explain it to me as overheated campaign rhetoric.

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I know, I know, the bones we were thrown for openness and transparency were thin gruel. That's the real disappointment here. We could have at least got DADT repealed and a few other decent gestures that wouldn't cost too much money, but this is as far as the gravy train goes. And if you think you're getting some kind of serious health reform there is still that swampland in Florida. . .

But it it enough for Obama to even claim that, at least at the beginning of his term, that he 'did some of the things' he promised before completely donning the clothes of the emperor of the national security state?

So now we have some pretty words, some pretty promises, and, as demonstrated, what the CIA calls a 'limited hangout:' a few documents, a few 'revelations' of things already widely known.

And then the door slams shut on anything else. The really 'bad stuff' in other words, stays hidden forever.

And now it's back to business as usual.

Darkness descends once again.

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What in God's name is Obama doing withholding information about what are obviously Federal Capital Crimes?

Who is Obama protecting from prosecution and Why?

Is Obama Soft On Crime?

Does Obama support a double standard of Justice for Americans? One standard for politicians, where Bush, Cheney and their appointed lawyers are protected from prosecution by their successors, Obama and his appointee lawyers? And another standard for the rest of us, where if We Voters violate Federal Laws like possession and distribution of POT, we will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

When Obama said "no one is above the law". was he just patronizing the voters?

Why would anyone obey any Federal laws if our elected officials and their appointees get to choose what laws they will obey and some they will ignore?

Obama needs to make sure that a Special Prosecutor is appointed soon to control the use of immunity by any investigatory commission that is formed by Congress.

We Must keep up the pressure on President Obama and on AG Holder to appoint a Special Prosecutor and in addition I think a congressional commission. The key thing here is that the commission be instructed not to give any immunity that a Special Prosecutor doesn't want given.

Please Sign The Petition at
Calling for a Special Prosecutor

http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG

I'm a 43 year Democrat and I support Obama.
He will get torture right.

If We Make Him Do It

.
----

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I have a question. Under the Geneva Convention, captured soldiers must be protected from "public curiosity". Doesn't that make the release of these torture pictures illegal? Unless torture victims' identities were securely hidden, wouldn't this be a horrible thing to do to them?

I understand that they should be available in court for prosecution, but it doesn't seem right that they should be released for public view.

Am I right or wrong on this and why?

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Does this mean they were never in danger?? It's a very incomprehensible statement.

Besides, I would've thought the Repugs would like the nation and the world to see their handiwork.

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So why are the Repugs afraid of releasing photos of their handiwork? Aren't they proud of 'em? Torture made America safe, no?

It's BULLSHIT when Pres Obama said the photos would hurt America or US troops overseas. All that those photos would have done is to condemn the Repug Party even worse than they are now. After all, those things occurred on THEIR watch!

Obama did 'em a favor. The Repugs owes Obama! And they're going to owe him BIG!!!

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I could careless whether these salacious photos are released to the media, as long as they are available to the legal Authorities to be used for the prosecution of Cheney,Rummy and Wolfie when the time comes.
Torture has been proven by the most objective organization with the most experience with what constitutes torture- The International Red Cross.
I have no interest in a 'Re do' in the fashion of Iran Contra. Ollie North 'took one for the Team', the purveyors of the MIC, and has been aptly rewarded ever since.
Why was it so easy to convict the AbuGhraib small fries- because the Left had once again focused it's myopic vision solely on them and not on the bigger picture.Once Again allowing the Godfathers to Walk off Scott Free, to continue their torture,rendition,Black Site and hit squad programs.
Let's be honest the Far Left has been as easily duped as the Far Right which has granted these Treasonous assholes an escape route every fuckin time. They throw you a lil' red meat and all is well.
We need not use the Miranda invoking threat of prosecution to get these minor operative to talk about the crimes which evidence has already been destroyed or was never created. do you think Cheney,Rummy & wolfie forgot the lessons of Nixon? Do you think they may have not bothered documenting (tapes,-emalis, memos) their more heinous crimes?Assuring there were no '18 minutes' missing from the record?
Come on Folks FOCUS! We need creditable,first hand accounts to to bear Witness to the other crimes we have yet not heard about. Who was on those Hit lists- International Leaders who would have derailed their Never ending Wars (Bhouto?), A person who could have provided evidence of an attack upon the citizens of this country by covert operatives (The Anthrax Scientist?).Someone who could have given a full accounting of the last few Decades of conspiratorial activities between players of the MIC and their Foreign Sponsors, the Saudis' (Saddam?).
They are playing you once again like a fiddle- plucking your strings to seranade you back to sleep.
In fact you are also playing the song they so want to hear- Prosecution for international War crimes being conducted Here, instead of in the international Courts. They are working very hard to provide enough grey area and doubt to get off under US legal statutes for the relatively minor crime Waterborading. and even if they do get convicted they are afforded the safe cozy confines of our prison system- they certainly will not face the gallows. Bear in mind our current Prison system is run by their Corp buddies too....Have ya Seen 'Good Fellows'?Protective custody, servants as body guards...
Obama has released info not for our sick morbid consumption but to provide access and evidence for the international community to use in formulating a case of international War Crimes. As long as that evidence doe not have a direct adverse effect on our current national defense, we should be providing anything the international community asks for or could use.
We as a nation should be focusing on the charges of Treason- misleading US into unnecessary and illegal invasions, Wiretapping, Abuse of Power, misuse of the Militry, our Taxes, our Legal system....
So find a bucket of Water and stick your head in it and extinguish the blaze of irrationality on your heads, the Photo are irrelevant to OUR part of the prosecution of these three Mother fuckers!
Note: Cheney admitted W only knew 'Basically' what was going on, so he Usurped the Office of the Presidency.Something We all knew anyway, but he confessed on national TV.Keep Taking DICK- 'anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law'

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as obama wonders if he's even gonna release the detainees after gitmo closes, and contemplates permanent residency for these folks at us military prisons without trial (latest AP report), ya gotta ask yerself, have we been duped? was Obama the only choice for a ruling class that understood another republican selling neocon strategy would bring down the country? better a democrat do it...
it's the oldest trick in the books ladies and germs, bush did it with rotating leadership in Iraq... don't blame petreaus for kimmits actions....
obama is just bush light.

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It's really sad to watch Obama legalize, excuse and condone Bush era crimes one after the other. What a huge disappointment this President is turning out to be. You'd think he had a narrow victory instead of a mandate. I sure which Kucinich had been elected. That is a man of principle and spine....

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I know one thing: we are expanding a detention center in Bagras to detain - without any cause - anyone who is in an area of violence who looks suspicious. Innocent people who are wrongfully detained will be hostile and they will attract attention from those at centers. Some of that attention will be abusive - and that will make them more hostile. And this will happen no matter what the official policy towards extreme abuse.
The basic problem is that we have presumed that anyone who gets in our way in foreign countries is fair game for abusive retaliation. While some of "those people" are bonafide criminals [whose example will be used to justify abuse on massive scale] most are people who are trying to go about their lives with hostile invaders in their land. They will be trying to walk a thin line between a hostile occupation force and those intent on isolating that force who feel justified in lashing out against "cooperative" locals.
We keep forgetting: Afghanistan is NOT our country. Soldiers in our country are only visible in sporadic nationalistic parades. They are constantly visible in occupied countries or countries under martial law with a significant resistance. There are a LOT of people in our country who would react in a hostile manner to the presence of armed soldiers in our streets to "quell civil unrest" and a majority of those upset vote Republican [the same bunch who seem to have no problem when those soldiers are in other peoples' faces]. They would go apoplectic if our armed soldiers started abducting citizens who displayed open resistance to their presence. Why do they have no qualms about soldiers doing exactly the same to Afghanis and Iraqis?

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that 9/11 was an Inside Job, either! So far, his disturbing decisions are outnumbering the few I've applauded by about 10 to 1. We've definitely been duped again! Downright shameful. Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive! End these ridiculous wars, prosecute the Bush/Cheney criminals (especially Bush & Cheney), and work to restore some American credibility again!

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Agree with Obama:
"their release would endanger our troops. It will also help the terrorist recruit more terrorist to kill our soldiers!"

But I do believe that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice should charged with war crimes.

Just my opinion!

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They committed suicide for fear the American were cannibals. Lets throw out the designed checks and balances built into our system and leave what is in those pictures to the imagination of the enemies the Bush Admin created. I think its pretty obvious the only laws that apply and or get enforced and prosecuted are the laws that are against the, lower upper class and below, citizens of what used to be America. Someone has threatened Obama and his family, I don't know who, maybe the FEDERAL RESERVE, or those who planned and carried out the staged mass murder we know as 9-11. If any other industrialized country behaved like America has in the last 9 years, the UN would be sending in troops to capture and prosecute Bush and his cronies. Oh wait, the UN, Bildibergers, CFR, Illuminati etc. are all in on it NEW WORLD ORDER, ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. TO THOSE WHO DOUBT ALL THE CONSPIRACY NUTS, YOU, ARE LOOKING PRETTY SILLY NOW.

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My guess is the photos show Bush Admin mucky-mucks standing around smoking cigars while the poor buggers are getting thrashed by US "agents"... maybe in one of 'em Timmy Geithner was getting Dick to sign checks for him or some shit.

Hell, maybe Barry was in one of 'em too.... just thinkin' out loud... or mebbe Georgie was poopin' in the b.g. and Obama thought that was just too tasteless for public consumption.

Either way, it's all shit. We need the evidence, documents, memos cables, transcripts, AND photos, all out there, all in the open so 'Merkaaners can get out of the childish pretend business and start owning our shit.

God dammit, where are the fucking adults?!

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...Obama got new information that led him to believe that releasing the photos WOULD be harmful...personally I want a president who takes new information and makes a new judgements based on the new information.

Remember 'stay the course'? do we really want another dimwit who chooses a path and then by god keeps marching on it, regardless of new circumstances? Flip-flop away, Mr. President. PLEASE adapt your strategy to new facts.

But why do we need to see them? What is the prurient fascination with them? We know they exist, were approved by Bush and they are horrific. The whole world doesn't need to see what monstrocities were done in our name under Bush and seeing them WILL inflame the Arab street...so, since they do NOT need to be released to the public in order to be subject to prosecution, what possible purpose would be served by showing the actual pictures? They exist, they are evidence and the only ones who need to see them are those prosecuting the perpetrators, aka the Bush Administration.

Did we need to actually SEE Jeffrey Dahmers handiwork to know the horror of his actions?

Methinks the same dynamic is at work that makes people rubber-neck an accident in hopes of seeing something terrible. Because you, Joe Sixpack, do not NEED to see these photos, you WANT to see them. How do I know?

Because of the massive hits the photos of that poor child who died in a car accident have recieved. Who on earth would want to look at the mangled corpse of a life snuffed out so early? apparently us. appalling.

But we love this stuff, to our shame. Nothing like a steaming pile of turrarists to get the red, white and blue blood charging, huh?

Consider that the president just MIGHT have more information that you do..I know that's hard for all the experts here, who seem to believe they know exactly what's what.. but you don't.

I think Obama is an intelligent, thoughtful man, unlike the baboon before him and until he gives me a reason to doubt him, I am going to assume he has more information than I do and trust him to act in a way that keeps both our physical selves and our fragile reputation safe.

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It is worth watching, Democracy Now! on torture 5/14.

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First of all, thank you Quannah for attacking my points, not me personally, like so many do here when you present points some take exception to.

If you re-read what I said, I never said it was a 'few bad apples'. Of course it was not. The war criminals are George Bush and Dick Cheney and they should go down as such. We should be.. and I am..humiliated and embarrassed at the actions of my government over the last 8 years.. and frankly, prior to that as well.

The only president I have any true respect for is the one who was president when I was born..Eisenhower, who, though he was a Repug, seemed to be a man of intelligence, honor and dignity.. but who knows.. I was only new born in 1959, so all I have is hearsay and history. Others since have done great things, like Kennedy and the promise of liberalism, Johnson and civil rights, Carter and the environment, Clinton and the economy, but each had serious shortcomings as well.

And of course, Nixon, Reagan and the Bushes should all die of shame for what they did to the country and the world and will fortunately go down in history as the fools and charlatans and enemies of the Constitution and the spirit of our democracy they were/are.

Further, I did not say the photos should be squelched and not used as evidence for prosecution, only that they do not need to be on the cover of OK! or USA Today or CNN and that Americans have a penchant for loving ugliness and enjoying pain and humiliation.
See: any reality show, COPS, How to catch a predator, etc.

We love to see'em squirm. It’s sickening.

But you make very valid points about the photos you mention. They DID change the way we think.. if only temporarily, since we are back to our old tricks and, as always, have failed to learn from the past.

So you have good points and you might be right. However, I still think that we have seen what we have done in the pictures we HAVE seen and adding fuel to the fire of hatred that burns across the globe at us really MIGHT put our service people across the world in greater danger, so a president that is trying to be circumspect and judicious in his actions, based on new information he received from his commanders in theater has my support. If he thinks releasing them might harm one young serviceperson, he’s right to be cautious.

Again, circling back to my original post, I want a president who considers new information and adapts accordingly. Just like I can take YOUR points/’new information’ and adjust my thinking, even if only slightly.

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I understand that we all know that there have been tortures, that our troops are already in danger as is, and that Obama is flip-flopping on the issue
But mass psychology points to images as the best way to change a perception or even to advertise an opinion.
If those photos are released, the Taliban will do everything to make sure that those photos get plastered on every television on the Middle East with propaganda slogans. They could create a riot that would put our troops in more danger than they already are.
As much as I don't agree with the actions of the previous and current administrations, on the subject of the terrorist photos, I do believe they have a valid point

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LOL! Yeah, 2thepoint frosts my cookies, too.

One last comment...I think that we are all a little overly sensitive to the possibility of nefarious conduct in our politicians, mostly because they tend to behave nefariously. Most especially if they are Repugs or have the last name Bush!

I am most certainly NOT in the 'Obama is a saint/ Jesus Christ/ the Second Coming' camp, but for the last 8 years, my knee-jerk reaction to anyone in politics might be a jading factor even now, so I am working to give him the benefit of the doubt.. as I said originally.. that he may be reacting to more information that we plebs have.

I want very much to not be as cynical as the last 8 years have made me and I really do believe that, in Obama, we have a person of discernment and circumspection, so, again, until he gives me a reason to doubt him, I will try to stay positive. If we aren't out of Iraq in 16 months, and it turns out to be 18-24, I am going to assume there is a valid reason. 3 years, not so much...still have health care and environmental issues a year from now? The Dow not over 15000? Yeah, these are not easy fixes and it will take time. As long as there is movement in that direction...solid movement.. I'm not going to trash Obama for not succeeding, only for not honestly trying and making headway toward success.

It seems a lot of people here on Alternet blogs really believed he would come in and fix everything in the first week and are now angry and disappointed that problems remain, lo, these many days hence. Days. It’s still less that 6 months.

Have any of us here completely solved every issue we have in our on lives in mere months? Maybe, maybe not. So why expect a mere human man to do so for 300 million of us?

As a New Thought philosopher, I believe negative attract negative; positive, positive. So I will keep throwing positivity toward this brand new administration and keep hoping for the best. Until I have good reason not to.

After all, I'm not an idiot, though I can guarantee 2thepoint would disagree with that. ;^}

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