Do you believe in the end of the world?

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Lets face it, all religions are completely ridiculous.

There is absolutely no material physical evidence to prove the validity of any religion.

Any honest person will admit that.


Religion requires blind faith, belief without proof, belief without evidence.

Belief without proof brought us the war in Iraq.

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which seems to include almost every Republican nowadays. This panel was mostly composed of annoying, ignorant people. That is why I never watch the Sunday morning shows.

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BARF!!!

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That not everyone is blasting Lawrence O'Donnell for his rhetoric. I think he had valid questions for Mitt that no one is willing to touch with a 10 foot pole.

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to see that they are talking about the "atheist" voting block.

It has become that important, huh?

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All anyone needs to do is a little research on Mormonism. Check out it's origins and it's inventor, John Smith. It isn't rocket science. Check it out for yourself. I did and came to the opinion that it's origins are pretty unbelievable.

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Mormonism is not worthy of any PC platitudes. It was founded by a charismatic charlatan with a messianic complex and continued after his murder(which made him a martyr)by a sociopathic, racist, rapist. It's scriptures and precepts are so outlandish they would guffaw an acid tripping JRR Tolkien.

That it gathered the earnest momentum it has over the past century and a half is not a testament to it's truth, but proof that people will follow anything promising them eternal life. Especially if they get their own planet to rule.

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Think of Mormonism what you will -- and it is fair to ask Romney and every other candidate what core beliefs he/she has -- but do so based on fact. It was primarily Brigham Young (who followed Joseph Smith) who reflected his times and created the racial policies mentioned. There is no support of this attitude toward "negros" or "Blacks" or "African Americans" in LDS scripture. Joseph Smith was actually very much against slavery; his abolitionist views in Missouri helped get him killed. Smith proposed that the fed gov sell some of its vast national land holdings, take the money and compensate slave holders, and thereby free every slave. Smith said God did not play favorites based on external characteristics. During the time of Smith, there were numerous Black members, including priesthood holders and temple goers. Likewise, while Young fervently preached against the mixing of the races and the ordination of Black members to the priesthood (Blacks COULD be members and some were even then), I know of no major Church leader who owned slaves or supported slavery. In contrast, many Christian denominations of the 1830s-1860s, especially those in the South, justified slavery. Like other religious groups with roots in those times, most LDS denounce racism and admit that any racial policies their church may have had were by men, not of God.

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Buchanan was the one spouting nonsense...secularism is NOT a religion.
The absence of religion is not a religion it is reason. It is science and empiricism.
Superstition is bad for Freedom and prosperity.
The Taliban and Osama Bin laden have the same goal as Pat Robertson, Falwell, Billy Grahmn and christian evangelicals: they all want religious based government.
The USA became great through Freedom and science. The USA needs to truly live up to its promise of Freedom and get rid of superstition in order to be great once again.

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They are all arguing over each other's delusions.


God Is Imaginary

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With the exception of O'Donnell and McLaughlin, the entire panel of bubbleheads demonstrated very well that their brain synapses are tightly twisted around their large intestine.

Remember the words of Diderot (and I paraphrase): Not until the last stone, from the last church falls on the empty skull of the last priest will humankind be truly free.

Rev. El Mundo
WVCSR

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...if a scientologist were a presidential candidate. the religious precepts of both lds and scientology are based on totally wacko scenarios. at least with the scientologists, there is a possibility that life does exist somewhere out there, independent of earth. that there was an angel named moroni (tooo easy, can't go there) seems unlikely in the extreme. in either case, how could a rational person vote for a mormon or a scientologist? oh, wait. i forgot. virgin birth, transmogrification... yeah, those are totally believable. as if.

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...to get in there and shout and scream with them. Impossible to listen to.

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" If there was no God, man would surely have invented one."

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"Those who would have us believe absurdities would make us commit atrocities."

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Galileo Galilei

“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God with has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use”

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All of the Abrahamic religions, including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, are based upon monotheism and ancient myths that were designed to explain the unexplainable. The good they did, and in some ways still do, was to attempt to find ways of living well and explore spirituality. Great works of visual art, literature, and philosophy have sprung from deeply held religious beliefs.

On the other hand, these same religions have been used as excuses to commit acts of unbelievable cruelty and barbarism.

Whether any religion has been more a force of good or evil can be debated forever. But what amazes me about most discussions concerning one over another is that they are just not all that different. Yes, to be sure, Mormonism has its totally loopy, nutty ideology. But it's surely no more unbelievable than the notion that earth, a tiny, tiny speck in the vastness of the universe and beyond, is the recipient of God's special treatment and love. Or that an omniscient, omnipotent god found it necessary to send his "only begotten son" to die a human death in order to "save humanity" from its sins. All religions are based upon assumptions that cannot be proven, and most are pretty much a matter of a suspension of disbelief in notions that are rather unbelievable out of the context of pure faith.

Abrahamic religions are all based upon texts, the Old Testament, New Testament, and Koran, that were written thousands of years ago by people who believed the earth was flat, had never heard of bacteria or black holes or even the continents of the Americas. The animals in the story of the ark would not have included kangaroos or polar bears or penguins.

What we have here is a clash of ideas that are really simply variations on a theme. They are different in details, but not in basic substance. I am aware that there are other differences, but the main difference between Christianity and Islam is that Muslims don't believe Christ was a deity, although he is seen as a prophet of god. Both Islam and Christianity believe in one god, heaven, the devil, and punishment and reward for a person's life on earth. The rest is mostly incidentals, and everything in the Bible and Koran is up for interpretation anyhow, and not just because of translation issues.

I recently read that if Jesus could come back to earth, he would find that modern Islam is much more closely related to the Judaism of his time than any other "modern" religion. That may or may not be true, but it's very likely that none of the Christian sects would be in any way recognizable to him.

It's a very sad commentary on the human need for exclusivity and confirmation of specific dogma that people actually want to go to war with others who have very similar, although not identical beliefs. The vitriolic hatred of Islam and demonizing of Mormonism by so many Christians would be absurd if it were not so destructive.

Incidentally, I have very good friends who are Mormons. They are among the kindest, most gentle, family-oriented, tolerant, creative, and loving people I've ever met. They are also culturally and politically leftwing. We have discussed our differences in religious views, and they know I'm an agnostic. It makes no difference in our friendship. Mormonism may be a "fringe" religion with a lot of so-called destructive principles, but all the Mormons I know personally are quite wonderful.

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It seems as though O'Donnell misses the real issue with Romney's speech. Certainly, his church had some beliefs that are incompatible with what is currently acceptable in America but the real problem is that Romney claimed that "...freedom needs religion." Calling Romney's flavor of faith into question is counter productive. Calling Romney's lack of conviction in the system of government that he would lead is what's important.

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MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE DIED BECAUSE OF RELIGION.
RELIGION IS THE BASIS FOR EVIL.
I BELIEVE IN FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.
I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE SUPERNATURAL.
I AM A RATIONALIST.

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I saw Larry O'Donnel's blowup live and in color on Sunday. Take a chill pill Larry and call me when you're ready to disavow Margaret Sanger and the rest of her bunch that gave us Planned Parenthood
She's one of your heros, Larry, isn't she? So let's talk about her background and see how she stacks up againt the founders of Mormonism

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It was a wonderful shouting match. If Romney believes that the Book of Morman was revealed to Joseph Smith while he looked in a hat with a rock in it, Romney should say this I believe.
Romney is really trying to persuade the Christian Conservatives that Mormonism is not a cult; but he doesn't want to go into the embarassing details.
Buchanan's sniviling about "God" being driven out of the public domain is pathetic. Christians overwhelmingly own and run this country and have the almost unlimited resourses to spread their claptrap; and Buchanan makes it sound like they're powerless.
Blah and Blather; Bah Humbug
Keith Campbell, Denver

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I don't have a problem with god, it's generally his fan clubs I have a problem with.

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A cult is defined with the following criteria:

*Cults have adherents who become increasingly dependent on the movement for their view on reality.

*Important decisions in the lives of adherents are made by others.

*Cults are characterized by making sharp distinctions between "us" and "them," "divine and satanic," "good and evil," etc. that are not open for discussion.

*Cults have leaders who claim divine authority for their deeds and for their orders to their followers.

*Cults have leaders and movements that are unequivocally focused on achieving a certain goal.

Wow! According to this criteria, the Bush Administration and its followers are cultists!

In any case, much of this describes fundamentalists of all stripes including many of the fundamentalist Christian churches. It certainly describes early Catholicism.

It's been said that the difference between religions and cults is the number of their followers, general social acceptance, and the length of time in which they have been in existence. I think that pretty much covers it.

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Video:
What Mormon Theology Is Really All About


Crimes of the State Blog

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At one level both politics and established religion are childish. As a small child in a religious school, I used to hope that nobody knew that I was a catholic because I would be embarassed that anybody would think that I believed the stuff the nun was telling me. As an eight year old I understood what load of crap conventional religion was. As I got older I perhaps needed the support of a specific structure and became a firm defender (apologist). I even became a monk.
More recently I have rediscovered the wisdom of my younger self.


The officials of both, politicians and clergy of all stripes are in deep collusion. They both want to control the lives of others. BEing both religious and overtly political is to win the jackpot. Look at Ayatollah Khomenei and the other psychopaths have gained both. Chairman Mao was another. The religion there was belief on the one true and holy party with Mao as god.

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...said that secularism is a religion...

Secularists do NOT:

Have "churches"

Collect money from people (especially the poor) on the fear that to not do so they may not go to a "better" place after they die.

Do not use fear to obtain their goals of an aristocracy.

Ask that their beliefs be taught in the schools.

Do not have a "Pope"..especially one that is a former Nazi.

Do not molest little boys in their "places of worship."

Do not hate gays but are gay at the same time.

Etc. etc. ad nasium

I would appreciate some additions to my list.

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