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Ahmadinejad to Columbia Students: What Do You Mean There Are Gays In Iran!?

Posted by Steve Benen at 3:00 PM on September 24, 2007.


Steve Benen: It’s exactly why Columbia was right to extend the invitation. What better way to make a fool of Ahmadinejad than to offer him a microphone?
Ahmadinejad to Columbia Students:

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This post, written by Steve Benen, originally appeared on The Carpetbagger Report

Putting aside the question of whether Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad should be able to visit Ground Zero, the other controversy of the week involved whether Ahmadinejad should be a guest at Columbia University in New York. The right has argued, vociferously, that the university is misguided for providing a platform to a dangerous nut. His ideas should be shunned, most conservatives argue, not considered in an academic setting.

I understand the argument, but I find wholly unpersuasive. Ahmadinejad is, regrettably, the head of state of a nation with tremendous geo-political significance. His perspective, no matter how offensive, matters. It is entirely consistent with American traditions and values to subject Ahmadinejad's oppressive ideas to scrutiny. Let him defend his beliefs in an open setting, standing or falling on their own merit.

Critics were unable to shut down Ahmadinejad's appearance today, and by all accounts, that was most certainly a positive development.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad took the stage at Columbia University on Monday to a blistering reception from the president of the school, who said the hard-line leader behaved like "a petty and cruel dictator."
Ahmadinejad smiled as Columbia President Lee Bollinger took him to task over Iran's human-rights record and foreign policy, and Ahmadinejad's statements denying the Holocaust and calling for the disappearance of Israel.
"Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator," Bollinger said, to loud applause. He said Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust might fool the illiterate and ignorant.
"When you come to a place like this it makes you simply ridiculous," Bollinger said. "The truth is that the Holocaust is the most documented event in human history."
Ahmadinejad, not surprisingly, protested the introduction, calling Bollinger "rude," and his comments "an insult to information and the knowledge of the audience here."

Which is fine. It's part of a free exchange. Bollinger thinks Ahmadinejad is insane, and said so. Ahmadinejad thinks Bollinger is insulting, and said so. I'm a big fan of lively debate.

And it got even livelier during the Q&A with students.

If you haven't seen it, consider this clip to your right (via Aravosis):

For those of you who can't watch video clips from work, a student asked about the treatment of gays in Iran -- as a rule, they're executed -- and Ahmadinejad responded, "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country."

Did you notice the crowd's reaction? The students were laughing at him. Ahmadinejad became the subject of mockery and ridicule, simply by showing up and stating his ridiculous beliefs.

It's exactly why Columbia was right to extend the invitation. What better way to make a fool of Ahmadinejad than to offer him a microphone?

Digg!

Tagged as: iran, discrimination, gay rights, ahmadinejad, homosexuality, homophobia, columbia university

Steve Benen is a freelance writer/researcher and creator of The Carpetbagger Report. In addition, he is the lead editor of Salon.com's Blog Report, and has been a contributor to Talking Points Memo, Washington Monthly, Crooks & Liars, The American Prospect, and the Guardian.


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View:
idiot exchange
Posted by: comradebob on Sep 24, 2007 3:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Agreed, letting this guy have a mic was a fine idea. Sort of like letting W have one without a phonetic Teleprompter... in both cases, the speaker's imbecility becomes undeniable.

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» RE: idiot exchange Posted by: blitzmesser
Freedom of speech
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Sep 24, 2007 3:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a strong believer in giving people enough rope to hang themselves, or letting them put their foot as far in their mouth as it will fit.

Could it be possible that he was joking? Either that, or he is being honest, since they probably executed all the gays in his country.

Lighten up and enjoy the show, America. Are you afraid people might agree with what he says?...If it helps, think of him as Bill O'Reilly with a mustache.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Facing off on level ground
Posted by: k_pr on Sep 24, 2007 4:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone know if someone actually challenged him on Quranic interpretation? If not then we are simply judging him by our standards as he judges us by his standards. In the end both sides consider the other evil. If anyone actually challenged his viewpoint with his own sacred text, now that would be taking a stand.

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» RE: Facing off on level ground? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Speech Overshawdowed....
Posted by: CatDad on Sep 24, 2007 5:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by the inconsiderate and inappropriate introduction from the President of Columbia...As with the "taser" episode at the Kerry speech...this inflammatory introduction makes one question the commitment to free speech and toleration of ideas which run counter to corporate and establishment thought in THIS nation.

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» invited just to be ridiculed? Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
Very educational
Posted by: g on Sep 24, 2007 5:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, if only someone had the guts to introduce GW as "a petty and cruel dictator." Then again GW Bush does not have the guts to meet people in an unscripted context. Anyone making against Bush such comments as were made on Ahmadinejad would get tasered or worse. No, I am not an admirer of Ahmadinejad. I greatly enjoy seeing him being mocked in public. But doesn't the fact that American students cannot use the same freedom with their own president trouble anyone?

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» RE: Very educational Posted by: pathways
» RE: Very educational...really? Posted by: blitzmesser
Has Bush been introduced as a war-criminal?
Posted by: PakiBoy on Sep 24, 2007 7:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when he visits Amerikan institutions? Now that would call for some real courage!

What courage does it take by the President of a prestigious University to call Ahmedinnejad a dictator or holocaust denier (which he is not)? Bollinger has made himself a hero in the eyes of liberal fools and right-wing loonies.


Imagine how fast Bollinger would be driven out of office, say if an Israeli PM had come to speak at the university, and Bollinger had asked him why do the Israelis deny the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and have an apartheid system worse than South Africa?

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» RE: Has Bush been introduced as a war-criminal? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» best point so far Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
Bollinger's introduction was disgraceful...
Posted by: justaguy on Sep 24, 2007 8:58 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.....and clear evidence of the double standards inherent in AmeriKKKan discourse.

The whole stage managed sham was a poor reflection on all concerned. And it was stage managed.

ALL ABOARD progressives!!

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» Oh, and Steve Benen? Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Bollinger's introduction was disgraceful? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Dictator? Posted by: justaguy
This speech was not about Gays in Iran
Posted by: logansafi on Sep 24, 2007 10:52 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This speech was not about Gays in Iran at all, and this commentator is totally off the wall in highlighting that. What is it with alternet for putting this Right Wing stuff online?

The president of Iran hardly came off as a nut at all, but came off as somebody who wanted a peaceful Middle East instead of what the nuts in Washington DC want.

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» RE: This speech was not about Gays in Iran? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Did he now? Posted by: justaguy
What a farce!
Posted by: KRieck on Sep 25, 2007 1:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although I am no fan of Ahmadinejad and know him to have proven himself to be an embarrassment to his country, I am equally disappointed, no, ASHAMED, by the reception given to him by one of America's premier intellectual institutions, particularly since they INVITED him to come and speak. Like him or not, like the government he represents or not, he is a head of state. Sure, take him to task and ask tough questions, but the sort of ridicule that went on was unacceptable. What sort of people invite someone as a guest only to make fun of him? This is not the sort of thing I would expect from an ACADEMIC institution committed to critical INTELLECTUAL engagement! Perhaps I am too old-fashioned, but to me that means, even if your counterpart is an idiot, you engage him politely and seriously. It IS possible to ask tough questions RESPECTFULLY. Would anyone have treated President Bush (who is little better than Ahmadinejad) this way, had they invited him to come and speak? To me this event leaves little to celebrate. Rather than as tribute to freedom of speech and political thought, I consider it to be sad testimony that Americans no longer seriously reflect on what the commitment to freedom of speech and thought really entails.

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» My thoughts exactly Posted by: lb
» RE: What a farce! Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: What a farce! Posted by: Mercedes
He deserves to say his thoughts
Posted by: Frankstank on Sep 25, 2007 3:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then to face the heat in a public realm. To stop him speaking is not only a denial of free speech, it also gives his more repellent thoughts too much dignity. But like the case of Hitler, it is worth remembering certain political philosophies will take all the liberties we give them, while waiting for the moment to take them all away.

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Sniveling Cast-in-Concrete Pseudo-Intellectuals
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive on Sep 25, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Quite a few easily offended cast-in-concrete intellectual curmudgeons have responded on this site that they were “disappointed, no, ASHAMED” by the reception given to Ahmadinejad. That after all he was invited by Columbia to speak and he is a “head-of-state”.

Take a close look at those “reasons” for treating this pocket-dictator with more deference. First, being invited by a prestigious and untethered University Professor in, what Ahmadinejad himself would characterize as, “The land of the Great Satan”, should place him on guard with a vengeance. It is NOT going to be a friendly venue. No utterance by Bollinger was “disrespectful” except to sniffing pseudo-intellectuals. My point, why do these (sniff, sniff) easily offended intellectuals bother to respond. They are so removed from the new American values and incredulity. BOTTOM LINE: We can no longer suffer so-called ACADEMIC INTELLECTUAL engagement and mores. It is a waste of time and our offended incredulity quotient screams for removal of these snivelling ones from any discourse.

Lastly, saying that... Rather than as tribute to freedom of speech and political thought, I consider it to be sad testimony that Americans no longer seriously reflect on what the commitment to freedom of speech and thought really entails...is just some more amazing sniveling INTELLECTUAL SNOBBERY, blathering incoherently about civility in an uncivil world. How ineffectually effete!

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» yay! Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Sorry, pal... Posted by: Suz
Churl
Posted by: fg on Sep 25, 2007 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't realize Columbia had a repulsive churl as its president. Columbia? The Ivy League? It's the Bush League if you ask me.

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I'm so happy
Posted by: leland61 on Sep 25, 2007 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm so happy that he got the mic and the stage. It was a clear demonstration of his duplicity, his inability to tell the truth, his clear ethical depravity and his disgusting religiosity.

He appeared on 60 Minutes as well. He was just as disgusting there and was even more evasive. His stupid grin, however, reminds me of the Bush monkey look - with facial hair.

He is not an atypical representative of Islamic leadership, however, and we need to keep that in mind. Forewaned is forearmed. The Quran says that it is perfectly OK to be evasive and even to lie when dealing with the infidels - and that means anyone who isn't a Muslim.

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» RE: I'm so happy Posted by: blitzmesser
Awestruck
Posted by: heinz57 on Sep 25, 2007 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, he is right up there with our own fool, GW, but our fool would not go to an Iranian university to speak. Possibly no teleprompters or pre-screened questions.

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RE: SO WHAT?
Posted by: leland61 on Sep 25, 2007 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He lied. He evaded. They murder homosexuals if they find them out. Of course there are homosexual people in Iran. We are everywhere. Only Christofascists and Islamofascists - like this guy - want to live in denial. And he isn't even Egyptian.

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» RE: SO WHAT? Posted by: Basenjis
Exactly.
Posted by: justaguy on Sep 25, 2007 6:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That was my take as well.

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Braver than our selected leader
Posted by: DeaconJ on Sep 25, 2007 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The lynch mob attitude of Columbia University's audience was
entirely shameful. He was obviously joking that there are no
homosexuals in Iran, that is obviously a joke. The hi degree
of language and cultural barriers are so apparent but Amerikans
and even those who can afford the lifelong debt of going to a 4 year college like Columbia are now nothing more than myopic diatribe of neo-brownshirts. So embarrassing.

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» RE: You are a racist moron Posted by: PakiBoy
» You're a "progressive"? LOL. Posted by: justaguy
BE MY GUEST!
Posted by: spratling on Sep 25, 2007 9:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bollinger's "introduction", which should have been perfunctory, rather than a staged, personal/political platform, was a disgraceful insult to fair-mindedness, and to a foreign leader, but most of all, to the institution itself. How do you possibly justify excoriating an invited guest speaker, even if under the guise of "free speech?" What a sad commentary on what this country stands for, when an alleged intellectual academic resorts to a verbal onslaught of this type. Evidently, it was a prime-your-audience, stoke-the-hate-flame intro, which unabashedly presumed the mindset of the audience. This is Columbia? An academic institution that presumably promotes independent thought? What a victory for cloning!

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» RE: BE MY GUEST! Posted by: leland61
» RE: BE MY GUEST! Posted by: Basenjis
Can people please do their research for once
Posted by: Graeme on Sep 25, 2007 10:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On Ahmadinejad and Iran? He is not the head of state! He's not even the head of the armed forces. His role is roughly analogous to American Vice-Presidents before Cheney, or prime ministers in dual systems such as Egypt's. He doesn't determine foreign policy. He doesn't set the budget. He doesn't have the authority to attack any other state.

Neither has he called for the destruction of Israel or claimed the Holocaust never happened, for that matter. Please, people, read Juan Cole and others who actually speak Farsi and know what they're talking about before jumping to conclusions on this very important subject.

The sad thing about the Columbia debacle isn't Ahmadinejad, who has never said anything more controversial in my book than what Bush says on a regular basis, but his reception. Bollinger should be ashamed of himself. No other head of government would ever have been treated in such a fashion, regardless of the nonsense they spew. Far from an objective forum for academic freedom, this was a setup, only it went wrong. Iran was to play "the enemy," from the beginning; impartiality was nowhere to be seen. The entire thing was disgraceful. Contrary to the assertion made by the above article however, the only one who came out looking reasonably good was Ahmadinejad.

Freedom of Speech is a desirable and honourable goal in and of itself, not because allowing it might help certain interests achieve their political goals.

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What an ignorant, delusional ass
Posted by: mercury613 on Sep 26, 2007 1:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like most homophobes, he probably has a guy or two on the side himself.

A few African leaders have said the same thing. It doesn't change the facts. We're everywhere. Everywhere.

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STOP VIEWING THE WORLD FROM YOUR AMERICAN PERCPECTIVE
Posted by: JusticeForAll on Sep 28, 2007 9:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
3 points:
1. There are people everywhere in the world who have sex with people of the same sex. NOT ALL OF THEM identify as homosexual or gay. In fact some languages LACK words describing gay or straight. So stop imposing your language and perspective and identities on everyone everywhere in the world.

2. If anyone thinks that bringing this issue up will help "gays" in Iran or the Middle East you are wrong! this issue makes Middle Easterners reject the "gay" identity because it is perceived as a part of an imperialist ideology.

3. WHY do we have to listen to Ahmadinejad or Bush? Why do we have to amplify and focus on the stupid things that they say?

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Conext
Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 29, 2007 11:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country."

I'd have to say that this statement is accurate. Their homosexuals are nothing like ours. When ours come out of the closet, they face ridicule. If theirs did, they face imprisonment or worse.

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To staunch defenders of this leader on Alternet..
Posted by: FrozenFox on Sep 30, 2007 4:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To deniers of this man's incompetence, particularly you saying

1) He didn't say that the holocaust never happened!
2) He didn't say that Israel should be wiped off the map!
3) He didn't say they didn't have homosexuals!
4) He was just kidding??

If you have a valid argument in the first place, it generally requires a presentation of proof to be accepted. There is decent reason to trust in the competence of professional translators, those on-scene or otherwise (whom have scarcely spoken up in the man's defense), but we have no reason to trust you saying they are wrong. Perhaps in your infinite wisdom of translating foreign language that not a single one of you I've seen has presented (please do correct me if I'm wrong, I've not read all of the posts, but most), you can offer some actual explanation to your arguments? We could make some *gasp* progress!

.. and come on now, be practical; we can't all learn a new language whenever trouble comes to/from some place that can't directly speak English (FSM forbid!). Hence why we rely on professional translators. I imagine most of you defending him and hating on others here don't know any more for sure than those hating on the guy themselves, and just assume it was intentional misguidance somewhere along the line.

Tell us, "correct" translators filled with outrage at all of this unwarranted mockery.. "When Ahmadinejad said the word ___, the media/govt/etc understood it to mean __, but the real translation according to ____ is __, and the words __ actually mean __" etc. Perhaps you would get a better response than from ad hominem IM RIGHT YOURE STUPID ASSHOLES AND BAD LEFTISTS, REALLY FASCISTS! crap. Point to a REPUTABLE resource, or ANYTHING beyond "trust me, he didn't say that ;D" as I'm sure someone's documented it somewhere for you if you don't know the language yourself. There's enough "IS NOT" "IS TOO!" squabbling here.

That aside.. personally, I don't "truly" care on this particular subject either way, or I'd have done the research myself and then said all of this.. except, I just wish this (or more importantly, OTHER future) discussion of issues to move beyond.. well, step 1, which is frequently the impasse here. Step 1's getting rather old, which is, I suppose, the real reason for the rant. If you feel any attacks so wrong and unwarranted as to hate on each other, surely someone would provide proof as to why sooner or later. ...right?

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