This illustrates one of the dangers of organized religion - it's authoritarian structure. Those that bow to an authority like a church and eschew reason, even for what seem like benign purposes, are (at least collectively) ripe for influence by other authorities, who may not be so benign.

Question authority. Demand evidence!

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I imagine most clergy out there, especially in the South, would be at least as -- if not more -- excited about this prospect than they would be about the actual "Rapture."

It's probably no coincidence we're seeing Blackwater set up camp in areas like San Diego, where anti-fascist dissent is likely to be strongest.

In the Bible Belt, most will go quietly; and happily turn informant.

People who do not live in the South don't understand the nature of religion as an institution down here.

Southern Christianity is less a philosophy or a spiritual guide than it is a career choice and very lucrative local business prospect.

People tend to assume churches are somehow overseen by central administrators, but this is often not the case in the South.

One can, for example, open up an Assembly of God or Church of Christ franchise, pay the central organization a fee for using the name, and register the local church as a nonprofit like any other.

Then, all collections, donations, daycare fees, etc. are tax-free, and may be used by whatever management decrees. And management, by most states' laws, can consist of one person.

I have seen $170,000 pastor salaries in small town churches where the median salary is in the $25,000 range. Add to that land and other donations, and you find a real incentive to keep people obedient.

Generally, the worse the job situation, the more churches per capita one finds in the Bible Belt, and the more aggressive "church leaders" become in recruiting new members and hustling donations (like sending teenagers out to panhandle).

And considering the potential of racking up even more loot in a martial law situation, church "leaders" have everything to gain and nothing to lose if government moves against public freedoms.

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but ol' Alex has been talking about this program for over 2yrs on his local radio show in Texas. Amazing, maybe some of the 'conspiracies' are true, huh??

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I guess this time they really blew it. The rural areas sure need some getting together and along with it proper representation, not sellout representation.

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Instead of being outraged at the prospect, these shills for Bush are selling this like it's some kind of great idea. Bastards.

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Hopefully this sort of thing will WAKE UP the democratic voters and other people who want to destroy the 2nd Amendment. They say things like "these people don't need no *assault weapon* to go deer hunting!". Well guess what...we want assault weapons to protect ourselves and our country from fascists/christians/world govt. Time for the left to wake up and get armed.

Dboy

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They'll be like Hitler's Brown Shirts. Crazed ideologues drunk on an elixir of hate and fear.

There's millions of them here in the South. Just waitin' for the signal. Might as well give Charles Manson a badge and a gun.

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Tyrants ally themselves once again with religion for the suppression of the free will of the people.

And no one will bat an eye in the mainstream... because we need it. I mean... what if the real world turned into TV and Jack Bouer had to save us all from a fate worse than death... and worse than losing all our rights... then we would need every source of supposed authority there to do the government's bidding. Because as we all know, and as the writers of our constitution knew... you can ALWAYS trust government.

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Wait one frigging, fragging second! This is NOT a Christian nation. This is a democracy - a nation that honors diversity, promotes individuality, and allows the freedom to have privacy, choice, as well as the choice NOT to be publicly spiritual or religious.

I am sick to death of ONE NATION UNDER GOD. Some Americans do not believe in a God nor do they read or follow doctrine or scripture. Up until Bush took office, that was just fine. Why - now that the most evil, un-Christian man imaginable has taken the presidency illegally twice - must this nation become ruled by, controlled by, and dictated to by Christians? That makes no sense.

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Capitalism in its death throes will soon plunge into its final economic crisis. This has become apparent even to the ruling class (pick up a Wall Street Journal). The only respite for the masters and their system will come from widening their war (see Cheney’s call to strike Iran) and tightening the repressive apparatus to the point that a pool of near slave labor is made available.

No matter our various concerns for spiritual matters we who grew up in the US and other industrialized countries are about to be put in touch with material deprivation like we have never known. The camps are being constructed, the parallel internet is being set up, the private armies are being raised. Soon only "good Germans" will have access to food, fuel and shelter.

It is not a matter of if but when the final assault on the people will begin. How long, not long. History is replete with nervous people just beyond the circle of the most oppressed advising passive or no resistance. There have been some revolutionaries who have moved to soon but can we condemn Nat Turner or John Brown for hating injustice so deeply and loving the people so much.

When our bourgeois democracy is shut down completely, an insurgency will become our only option. We must enlist people and accept the leadership of people in this insurgency without regard to race or nationality. Unbeknownst to most oppressed white workers in this country, unity with his/her African-American, Hispanic and immigrant counterparts is the only hope of salvation. Racism and xenophobia and every other tactic of division have been the lifeblood of capitalism with good reason. Our unity is the only potentially deadly threat to this system. White supremacy, Black-nationalism, religious fundamentalism, sexism, homophobia, and all the crackpot schemes and nihilistic cults of the bourgeoisie, like al-Qaeda, are dead ends for all of us.

We must not succumb to defeatism or fatalism. For if history is a guide, leaders, warriors will step forward and point us in the direction of our only hope of survival—socialism. As the great man said, "We as a people will get to the promised land."

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And who do you supposed they'll be rounding up - for our own good? Cowboy mentality? You betcher ass!

Ian

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So why are we letting it happen?

This is absolutely an OUTRAGE and an AFFRONT to everything the U.S. is supposed to stand for.

However, as noted previously, the financial collapse of the global capitalist system is nigh. You hear explanations of all shades and colors but they all agree that we are witnessing the slow motion train wreck of everything the Western world has built since WW2. Some blame "the Communists" (seriously), some blame Bush, some blame hedge funds, some blame the rich - IT DOESN'T MATTER PEOPLE, WAKE THE HELL UP AND PREPARE.

Like dude said earlier, HOW LONG? NOT LONG!

Either be prepared or perish.

Talk to anyone from virtually any walk of life, there is a shadow of doom resting over our entire nation and NOBODY will be unaffected by what's coming. Everyone feels it coming, it is the slow motion train wreck and we feel it in our bones before we can ever hear the whistle.

I just hope I can make it out of the country before things really tip off. The U.S., without its opulence and shopping mall market hedonism, would be one of the most unstable places on Earth. So many competing agendas and groups.

It's martial law or civil war and dissolution of the Republic - THAT'S what we're facing here. It's real, it's soon, and it's going to be one of the ugliest global catastrophes in human history. No country will be unaffected, and nobody will be completely safe.

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is right around the corner.

plur

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The pastors get the power of gunpoint to add to their sermons and convert a few souls (which is to say, gain power over them); the government gets the assured cooperation of those already convinced to follow an authoritarian church. This is how a new repressive regime is built from the turmoil that follows global-warming-related disasters or post-peak-oil fallout.

The members of the business class will be safe behind their community gates and their private police and military forces (unless we can convince the members of these organizations to side with the rest of us). This is the class to which most mainstream Republicans and Democrats belong, a class that stands to gain great power-- yet we wonder why Congressional opposition to the Bush administration's anti-civil-rights initiatives amounts to little more than theater.

Are we distracted by it? Do we play their game?

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This is a truly scary scenario that the government is putting forward. Clergy have a long tradition in America as chaplains--those who can help victims and survivors talk through their shock and grief at the scene of a disaster. Many clergy went straight to lower Manhattan in the wake of 9/11 to help with just that--other clergy went to Katrina-ravaged gulf coast for that purpose. Most clergy go through something called Clinical Pastoral Education before getting approved to be ordained--I did this. It meant serving as a Chaplain in a hospital for three months, where I and other students learned some of the major tenets of pastoral care in a crisis. One of the PRIMARY tenets is that you don't even DARE to convert anyone--you help victims/survivors by making space for them to talk and actively listening to them. You don't talk at them or try to comfort them with trite platitudes or government-vetted Bible passages. The Red Cross and other groups have list of trained chaplains of many faiths they can call on during disasters to provide this kind of listening and presence.

My sense is that only the most conservative clergy would buy into this very different obedience scheme from the US government. There's been a lot of clergy and church bashing in the comments above, some of it deserved, but it's also valuable to remember that religious faith is one of the things that has historically helped people RESIST government oppression--think of the civil rights movement in the US, and of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the other clergy who plotted to assassinate Hitler.

The Bush administration has tried to co-opt religion for election strategies, for its "faith based initiatives", for its hateful anti-gay messages, and now for enforcing obedience during martial law. This is despicable. Bill Moyers comments on this issue articulately in his video opinion piece about Karl Rove, also linked to from Alternet Video. Watch it!

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Religion is a SCAM. ANY religion, there are 10,000 to
choose from. ALL preachers, priests, imams, rabbis,
iatolas, etc. belong in jail for "grand theft bunko".

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Can remember when most of our elections were reasonably fair: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when women's bodies were their own property: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when our government answered to the people and not special interests: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when the MSM was reliable and not afraid to challenge demagogues like Sen. Joseph McCarthy: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when we NEVER, EVER started a war: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when people took two weeks of vacation every summer: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when women chose whether they wanted to work or stay home with the kiddies: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when our country was never in debt: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when our country was a beacon of freedom and democracy: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when one family could NOT control our country like a monarchy: NOT ANYMORE
Can remember when only a few were religious fanatics and hypocrites: NOT ANYMORE

It's approaching midnight in America, folks. Time to stand up and THROW THESE BASTARDS OUT!

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Politics and religion are one and the same thing, in that their leaders seek to CONTROL people. Any dirty lie or dirty trick will do, because the crying need to get people to do and think what the politicians and preachers want them to is akin to a craving that no amount of control will satiate. Think of them as alcoholics, drug addicts, or the gambling-addicted. There's a void in their lives that they seek to fill with their self-destructive activities, but, of course, never do. The inability of most of us to recognize the danger they represent only serves to reinforce their behavior, because they invariably take the rest of us with them when they fall.

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Interesting article, interesting comments. Some seem to be truly looking for an answer, others are the same old anti-Christian rhetoric. To them I'd ask - please, discern the difference between a Christian and a Religionist. But I digress...

I've seen so many commenter's asking for or demanding the impeachment of BushCo and I can understand why. I'm Canadian but this American government terrifies me! The one sense that keeps coming when I read these comments is...about 1/2 way through that process, there will be a "disaster" perfectly timed for "full martial law." I believe Americans are living under soft martial law already, and most don't know it. I also believe that the current government will be the last "elected" in the States. Quoted because I don't believe he/they were "elected" at all - I believe they were placed.

I'd be willing to bet there are more than a few clergy, who have already given your security branch lists of names of those they believe to be anti-government. (Which of course would mean anti-God because every one knows that George is his messenger...and yes, my tongue is in my cheek.) On those lists will be names of people they smile and shake hands with every Sunday, perhaps more often than that. One of the major differences between a Christian and a religionist.

There is a reason the Bible tells us that father will be against son, daughter against mother, etc. ...this sets the groundwork for that passage to come true. And it will. Families will begin to see one another as "the enemy within," and the camps will overflow - filled by people doing what they perceive to be the right thing.

For many, the phrase "he who hath ears, let him hear!" will mean nothing until they begin to see with their eyes. The puzzle pieces are already on the table, we only need to put them together - then what the eyes see, the ears will hear.

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fundamentalist religions will be at the forefront of this event to quell 'we the people'. They are Catholicism a fundie religion, my religion, and the evangelical fundies. These are both totally committed right wing fundamentalist religions, as are the Islamic fundies. The Mormons are part of this as well but they are such a small religion(4-6% of the population) that we don't have to worry about them.
The Catholic Church did this before, during and after WWII when it was an endorser and supporter of Hitler nad the Nazis Party. Now the Church is tightly aligned with Bush43 and the Republican Party. All of these fundamentalist religious groups go to whomever has the political power, Hitler then and Bush now.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and both of these religions want and are working for FAR MORE POWER than they already have. They want dominion and domination over the lives and deaths of everyone, even those who are not of those faiths.

This all began when Pope John Paul II aligned himself and the Catholic Church with the Repuklikkkan Party, the party of hate and intolerance and death for profits and political power. They have sold themselves to the Republican party and the Bush crime family for the promise of political power and domination over everyone. WHY?

Because both of these fundie religions are totally convinced their way is the right way. They are 'moral relativists' because they cherry pick the teachings of Jesus and the laws fo God that support only their own purpose.

For example, God gave us a soul and He gave us FREE WILL, the right, duty and responsibility to choose our way through life. Even God has chosen to not take away that which He has given. AND YET, both of these religions are doing that very thing, taking away our FREE WILL.

This is hypocrisy, blasphemy and scarilege. It is also the sinofPRIDE, which is setting onself equal to God and making God-like decisions over the lives of others. If the Catholic Church wants to make decisions over the lives of Catholics who knowingly and willingly allow them to do that, that is okay. But to assume that privilege over the lives of everyone else is setting themselves equal to God. And that is just plain WRONG, and an abomination unto God and man.

As the Catholic Church and the right wing fundies take over the lives of others it sins against God, the Father of us all. Because it chooses to damage and control we, the children of God. To sin against us IS too sin against God.

Each of us has the responsibility to find our way through life. There is no way that the Church has that right of dominion over us and no way can it take away our God given rights, our rights and responsibilitities.

I could write much more as I have so often in the past but most/almost all of you can understand that YOU have the right to live your life as you see fit and you know that instinctively whether you are religious or not. In fact religion has nothing to do with anyones understanding of those principles. In fact these two right wing religions are totally guilty of takng our freedoms and right of choice away from us.

Oh well, the Catholic Church has not learned in 2000yrs so it will never learn these facts. It can rationalize any and all of it's positions. It has lost all humility, and regard for the lives and souls of others.
We as human beings have certain inalienable rights just because we are human beings.

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- is THIS enough for you to wake up yet? What else do you need to see? What else has to be proven to you that what you were warned of for years now has finally happened. All the pieces are in place - the legal frame work to imprison Americans, the camps to house them, a fully opperational propaganda system as the opiate of the masses to quell upraising and those that don't can be labeled terrorists and have this special police go after them.....

and yet - still nothing from the average American.

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.............is get the Republicans out of office. They no longer allow dissent even within their own ranks, especially on religious issues. They are dictators and need to be overthrown.
Democrats aren't perfect, but they will be a lot better if they actually have some power again. Democratic politicians are as scared as we average Americans, right now.
We need such a massive voter turn-out in the next election that it wont be possible for them to steal it for the third time.

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DEROGATORY STATEMENTS AGAINST POPE JOHN PAUL II ARE JUST PLAIN WRONG! JOHNPAUL II STATED YEARS AGO THET HE BELIEVED THAT GEORGE W. BUSH COULD BE THE ANTICHRIST! HE ALSO STATED THAT HE BELIEVED THAT BUSH HAD FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE 911 ATTACKS. THESE FACTS ARE STATED PLAINLY ON THE INTERNET. SO WHY CREATE FEAR WITHIN YOUR OWN MIND AND IN THE MINDS OF OTHERS WHEN YOU KNOW NOT WHEREOF YOU SPEAK. CHECK THE INTERNET AND INVESTIGATE 911TRUTH.ORG.........PEACE !

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Now the phrase "cowboy mentality" is being used against those who reject Bush's "cowboy mentality." Clever, very Goebbelsian.

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... is an enemy of mankind.

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"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." -- Thomas Jefferson

Mark my words...martial law is only a few years away; we'd better be prepared to resist.

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This is a clear example of how this government is scheming to hijack this country. Buzzflash and/or Common Dreams reported this item awhile back ago of getting right wing American Talibangelists to basically brainwash people into thinking that the Government is protecting us. But from whom? If it wasn't for this faux concept of religion, we wouldn't have all this pain and misery in the world to begin with. Religion, or the belief thereof has caused too much death and destruction in the world since the "scientific" beginning of time. If martial law is ever implemented, I just hope these so called pastors, preachers, evangelists, et al, have gotten right with their respective god, because they will probably be the first persons taken out. And I will be there ready to defend myself and my family from either these frauds or the government. Enough said.

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You guessed it; religion. Religion is so organized and contrived. Has anyone seen those catchy, quirky phrases that churches put on their marquees? It all comes from a book of how to woo the masses into submission. It's all a scam, but they continually rake in the money from all the gullible people. Just about anybody can construct a building and call it a church (Think Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker, etc.). Hell, most "clergy" probably got their "calling" not from some mystical god; rather, they more than likely got it from some study at home or internet pastoral paper pushing outfit. These people need to get real jobs. But why should they? They're raking in the dough so fast, predicated upon the self-imposed guilt of their flock of fools.

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So why the surprise?
Politicians and the clergy are in the same business.
Both are in the control business. Both want compliant and grateful masses to support them and to pay for their excesses. Both lie constantly about their importance.
One lot saying that they are the intermediaries between man and god and that they are therefore the gates to ultimate bliss. The other claim to have the interests of the individual at heart and to protect and lead them to some millenial future.
The stock in trade for both is the lie.
Both are the floating gasy turds of societies all.

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Wow, you would almost thing with the increasing evangelical proselytizing that is going on in the military and the emergence of powerful mercenary forces, that with the collapse of central authority in DC, we will see the scenario described in the Republic of Gilead (as in Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's Tale) or a "Christian America" (as in the "Parable of Talents" by the late great Octavia Butler) emerge.

Scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMrz_ivl8jo

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The mainstream Protestant and, I believe, Catholic community plus Jewish, Muslim and other faith leaders are the MAJORITY of US faith leaders (if you don't know that, you've been punked by the media) who would adamantly oppose being part of support for martial law. We have NO interest in helping this nation lose any more of its civil rights or abetting a naked power grab from this administration. OK - a lot o clergy would be apathetic or scared, but we have a long tradition of leadership of positive, progressive movements (Civil rights, anti-war, etc., etc., etc.) and of leadership against governmental abuses of human rights. Secular rights people - get to know who the clergy are within your community who will be your allies on this!

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Mark 13
Signs of the End of the Age
1As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!"

2"Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 4"Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?"

5Jesus said to them: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 6Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many. 7When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 8Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains.

9"You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. 11Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

12"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 13All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

14"When you see 'the abomination (the anti-christ coming has a light of the church serving the government "the 1st beast") that causes desolation'[a]standing where it[b] does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15Let no one on the roof of his house go down or enter the house to take anything out. 16Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 17How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again. 20If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ[c]!' or, 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. 22For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible. 23So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

24"But in those days, following that distress,
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[d]

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