It was interesting, too, to read the comments on the Yahoo comments board after the news article about this. Most of the comments expressed the same belligerent ignorance about Islam and Muslims as that expressed by the callers to the show.

Will we ever learn?

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Are Americans really getting hopelessly and madly sick?
Is this the land of freedom that America wants us to believe in? Have the Americans not learned from past History? It is simply disgusting.

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actually there's another side to this story.
lots of people are on record as saying these guys were behaving extremely suspiciously, and the whole thing could well be a PR ploy to make the West look bad. dig deeper. An Arabic speaker overheard them yammering away about what a great guy Bin Laden was and how the west deserved to be taken down, or something along those lines. It's not as clear a situation as it's being made out to be. Careful in your haste to righteous anger you don't get played.

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America is attacked by a group of Muslim men, losing over 3000 people, planes and skyscrapers in NY. The entire country is changed as a result: airport security, Homeland security, Patriot Act, generalized hatred from around the world by Muslims. People are constantly warned about red alerts to yellow alerts and given a sense of insecurity. A group of Muslim clerics decide to get in a corner of the airport and pray. Now. Logically, what would one think was their motive? Why in an airport and being a VIP, why not in a sky room or designated area for such? Did they frighten fellow passengers? No doubt. Was it intentional manipulation of American terror? Yes. I believe it is unfair and disingenuous to expect any less from the airline. They are private (sort of) and have the right to decide who flies and who doesn't.

Homeland security has enough on its hands then to worry about manipulative so-called religious men creating such chaos. I know the games and they were playing it and doing it well. The effect, this article and an innocent expression on a studied man's face, what a crock and what suckers we are.

Under today's system, they HAD TO know what they were doing. If they had been black men, grouped together, walking down the street towards a white woman with a large purse, would there be outrage if she clutched it tightly and crossed to the opposite side of the street? I a group of tattooed skin head types congregated around a lone black person, would they be wrong to assume the worse? History is the best predictor of future events and given our very recent history, there is no doubt in my mind that this was a concerted plan by who knows who. Progressives? In my opinion, what the middle eastern men did WAS enact a form of terrorism- in the name of religion. A blind man should be able to see this. Now, Americans are arguing for the rights of the people who hate us and attacking Americans who are on the right. This position reflects a Stockholm syndrome, in my view.

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How can the cops threaten someone with arrest if they speak?

I thought the first amendment prohibits a restriction upon free speach? Or is "free speach" now discretionary to the police state?

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White, born and raised primarily in the States, Muslim. That's bound to turn some TSA heads...

And just the other day I heard the Republican Party on C-SPAN talking about 'maintaining the Republican stance as the party of freedom in business and personal lives'. God Willing that this kind of blatent nonsense never graces the pages of a Congressional bill.

I guess US Airways is enjoying living in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, so they probably won't mind losing out on the business of the imams.

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Look, there's plenty of information that shows their behavior to be odd and suspicious -- just not on lefty blogs or websites.

Moreover, I think any unproven belief in god (whether you're Jewish, Muslim, or Christian) is dumb, just as is belief, without proof, that I'm going to fall into a hole tomorrow because, say, the moon's in Aquarius.

The thing is, there aren't large numbers of astrologers who want to kill people who don't share their belief in astrology, nor is there an ensuing lack in "moderate astrologers" speaking up against those who condone violence.

The Jewish and Christian Old Testament and the Koran both stand for some pretty ugly stuff. See the link to my blog:

http://tinyurl.com/se5er

Again, the difference is, there aren't large numbers of Christians or Jews who use that text to exhort those of their "flock" (an excellent term for any of the gullible who believe, without evidence, in god) to murder those who don't share their particular brand of gullibility.

No, I don't have some hatred of Arabs or Muslims. But, I have to be honest -- there are a large number of Muslim people who use their religious text (and the idiotic belief that they'll get 72 virgins for murder in the name of Islam) to justify heinous acts against the rest of us.

Wake up, lefties. Before somebody slits all our throats.

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I am prompted to make my first post here, after reading AlterNet for months, by the extreme bigotry being expressed here and by callers to the DC talk show quoted above. One main cause of bigotry is lack of education, and bigots ofen display their ignorance by their bigoted behaviour and words.

Ignorance of the Law: schnoggi says "lots of people are on record as saying these guys were behaving extremely suspiciously" when there is in fact no record yet disclosed; I'd like to see the complainants display some balls and testify under oath as to what they alledgedly heard.

Ignorance of the Story: ddsharper says "The guy is acting so damned innocent", but before judging him hear his whole story. The AlterNet video clip is a small part of the interview. The rest is here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/29/1436216

Ignorance of Religion: ddsharper says "I think Islam is dangerous. It has proven itself so." If so, then Christianity and Judaism have also proven their depravity and danger. The slaughter by Christians during the Crusades and the murder of innocents by Israel today stand out. We all have blood on our hands.

Ignorance of History: ddsharper again "They enclave [sic] and kill Africans so F them"....ah, so F your American ancestors who enslaved and killed Africans too, huh? Get a mirror!

Ignorance of Islam: ddsharper, you are a treasure trove of bigotry, "They are slick and sneaky" where Islam teaches the same as other religions where one of the 5 pillars of Islam is giving to charity and is required. I wish all conservative Christians in America were equally sneaky.

Ignorance of the Facts: I am getting tired of ddsharper "America is attacked by a group of Muslim men," but we can equally say by a group of Saudis, but we aren't singling them out. And a small group of extremests doesn't represent the whole of a religious tradition. That's as shallow as it is bigoted.

Ignorance of Logic: "A group of Muslim clerics decide to get in a corner of the airport and pray. Now. Logically, what would one think was their motive?" Uhh, I think there motive was to follow the dictates of their religion and peacefully pray to God (see The Five Pillars of Islam again, which prescribes when to pray as well.) Are you going to ban public prayer for Christians too, in case a small group of them go off their nut and pull a mini Crusade after praying to God?

"This is not racism, bigotry or anything of the sort." Methinks he doth protest too much.

My God, I can't go on...! ddsharper's whole post entitled "Logical Cause and Effect" is like a badly written definition of "bigot". My despair at the thought that there are so many Americans who would agree with ddsharper is blessedly releived by the KNOWLEDGE that all my American relatives and American friends display the best in American Judeo-Christian values and political thinking:
• freedom of speech (1st Amendment)
• freedom of religion (Bill of Rights)
• tolerance and compassion (like Jesus would display)
• a hunger for knowledge (not blissful ignorance)
• the rule of law (not the rule of fear)

Your homework all you bigots (especially ddsharper), so that you can emerge from ignorance, is to start with a quick review of Islam at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Five_Pillars_of_Islam

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Well with our rights taken away and our education in the toilet and the Christian Right maintaining they are the only right religion...We have prejudice alive and well. And it will get worse, not better as the economy fails, and gosh, do those Muslims have more money than me???? And then the police will find reason to go in and smash their businesses and oust them from their homes and put them in internment camps...And then after we are nuked (because the stakes are so much higher) we might think we made a mistake somewheres.

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In our local paper today, the Arizona Republic, there was more information regarding the Imams who live here in Phoenix. Their prayer was not what sparked the crew's suspicions. The Imams changed seats from their assigned seats to the first row in first class, and the exit doors midway and at the back of the plane. They requested seat belt extenders and then placed them on the floor in front of them instead of using them. Air Marshalls say this is the exact behavior they would look for from terrorists.

The Constitution not only guarentees us the right to freedom OF religion, but also, freedom FROM religion. I do not believe any religious groups should be allowed to perform ceremonies in public places like airports, stadiiums, and malls. There is a time and place for performing rites; not in public. I don't care if it is Christians, Jews, Wiccans, Hindus, or Muslims. I have the right to be in a public place and not subjected to what I feel is a personal conversation with the god(s) or godess(es) of my fellow humans. I believe that people should conduct their prayers and ceremonies in their temples, churches and private residences. I am not intolerant, just wary; if we open the door for one group, we must open it for all. Where do we draw the line on public displays of belief?

On a side issue, regarding the Muslim man who was just elected to Congress. Let me say that in this day and age I was delighted that my fellow Americans could be open minded and hearted enough to actually elect a Muslim to office. It has been reported that he does not wish to be sworn in by holding his hand on a Bible, but wishes to use a Koran instead. Could someone please explain to me why our officials are not made to place their hand on a copy of the Constitution when taking their oaths? This is truly the one document they are swearing to abide and uphold to the best of their ability. It is also the one document that binds all Americans together. Our religious and political differences aside, the Constitution should be the ONE thing that we Americans all agree upon and fight for.

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I remember back in 6th grade, the only year I had to say the pledge of allegiance in school, that it ended like this.

...liberty and justice for all.

Now I realize that for much if not most (or all) of American history that has been a lie (ask slaves, women, native Americans, labor, Japanese Americans, etc..). But as an idealist it is something I think we should strive for and I think this is a case of injustice and that their liberties were violated.

Now some people say that they shouldn't have prayed in a group, or that their behavior brought upon themselves, but that is blaming the victim mentality. Everyone that uses that argument should think deeply upon whether or not they would say a woman that wore provactive clothes was asking for the rape because it is a similar comparison.

Ahmed Tharwat wrote a commentary about it which can be found here that blames the imans for their behavior, once again blaming the victims.

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when given anonymous access to internet, telephone, radio, or to violence (like in a riot or crowd) people will resort to base insticts and desires. Think of how many virulent comments you can't find on Alternet (a progressive) site against Cheney, Bush, Lee Raymond, Jews, Evangelicals, etc. Actually I'm somewhat surprised considering I'm sure the NSA monitors the board and ip address. I'm sure some posters have received the proverbial 'knock on the door'. But it proves that if progressive and those will, probably the most access to information, can rant, call for murder, make anti-jewish tirades then imagine what uneducated people whose only 'news' the mainstream media, or, worse, some right-wing shock-jock!

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It’s a sorry state of affairs in Amerika when the world sees all this unnecessary FEAR, ignorance, bigoted hatred, and paranoia surrounding Muslims -- or anyone who looks remotely like Joe Public’s perception of a Muslim -- all created courtesy of your “democratic, freedom defending” Gu’mint. And most of you dumb-assed fools bought into it, hook, line and sinker! Pawns. Haven't you figured out yet that 9-11 likely was a false flag attack, a long planned Illuminati conspiracy which may not have anything to do with bL or Muslims in the first place. bL did deny involvement right off the bat. The attack on the WTC may have been a devious ruse to scare the shit out of you folks (a common tactic used throughout the years by various gu’mints) so your Administration can get away with doing whatever the fuck it wants without any accountability or oversight by citizens. To name a few: warrantless eavesdropping... threatening, planning, and contemplating the use of nuclear weapons... torturing people... invading countries that are no threat to the U.S.... extrajudicial imprisonments... trampling all over your Constitution... and pretending there is a War on Terror.

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on This thread. Get yourself new Brains, some of you! You make Osama Bin Laden sound like a pillar of wisdom. Americans of Your kind can't understand that we're laughing at you in the rest of the world for your naivity. And...your watery Beer, too.{:@

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Thanks laoma for adding "Freedon of/ from Religion". This is where bigoted thinking breaks down, as there seems to be little freedon FROM religion in American public schools. The debate continues over classroon prayer (Christian, I assume) and the posting of the 10 Commandments.

I admire a person who has faith that they express through prayer, and myself try to live by the tenets of God's commandments, but publicly funded schools in America should be free OF religion. Student clubs with voluntary attendance are fine, as most schools that have them have clubs for various religions, and it is a student's choice.

Also, Chattyjane mentioned (in a calm and reasoned voice, I should add) that the Imams suspiciously changed seats. I appreciate Chattyjane's approach and offering this information. This is how a civilised discussion takes place. May I offer a correction? As PLexius pointed out, and according to the Imam speaking on DemocracyNow!, the airline changed his seat to first class, first row, to reward him as a VIP passenger and frequent flyer. No other Imams changed the seat originally assigned to them by the airline (although it is possible they selected there own seats at the time of booking, a nice service from airlines). Plexius also reminds us that two of the Imams who are rather large asked for seat-belt extenders.

If we are afraid of passengers offering their better seat to a handicapped person, or for asking for a service freely provided by the airline (seat-belt extenders), then we fail to reflect on FDR's words:

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror..."

Bush has America gripped in such a heightened state of fear that I can only characterise it as terror. Bush and his buddies are terrorising Americans through fear mongering, and average Iraqis through violence. we will not be able to reconcile the actions of Bush in the past 5 years until he is impeached, indicted, (presumably) convicted, and imprisoned. (Notice the rule of law in what I am calling for, less than what Bush offers his enemies and victims.)

Hmmmm, long post again, but like Chattyjane I keep my mind open until all the facts are in. US Air was invited on DemocracyNow! to offer their story, but declined to appear. The Imams were never charged with any crime, and no evidence has been sworn to in a court against them. At this point they sound completely innocent, and Homeland Security could have locked them up for weeks while investigating their background, searching their checked luggage for explosives, and a myriad of things.

I thought one tenet of American law was "innocent until proven guilty". If anyone can CITE a fact of illegal activity by these Imams, I am all for their arrest. Not just heresay, but something the claimant would swear in an affidavit, or physical evidence that can be presented in court. There is none thus far: can anyone show me any?

I agree that suspicious activity is a good tool in helping authorities sort out who to more closely inspect, but the suspicious activity itself is no crime. The police found absolutely no evidence of the Imams of comitting or planning to commit any crime: they are innocent as is evident from their release from custody.

Maybe I had better save further points for new subject lines....

TokyoTuds

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... that our physical isolation makes it even easier for the corporate media to make that isolation even more complete. Add to that the needless expense of travel, and Americans see relatively few people of other cultures, while Europeans and others almost can't throw a rock without hitting another country. We're deliberately kept ignorant and fearful - those of us susceptible to such things.

In Germany they pay pennies per minute for a phone call to the US that would cost me fifty bucks, and their airline fees are a fraction of ours. Same for most of Europe. They routinely get exposed to other cultures, and most realize that people are people whatever their religion or language.

Doing something about that would change things here a lot, I think.

And I'm a Texan in Oregon who also doesn't like the pissy beer here.

Ian

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To all USA officials:

When confronted with a new experience, don't think, (over)react!!

Then go and do the impossible by getting drunk on Bud.

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"They requested seat belt extenders and then placed them on the floor in front of them instead of using them".

Just maybe they were waiting for the captain to turn on the seat belt light before using the extenders. The seat belts can be binding for many people so they wait until the last minute to belt up. And maybe the floor was just an easy place for the extender until ready for use, though I suppose the Imans could have held onto the extenders along with all of the other ten or so things people are usually holding.

"Air Marshalls say this is the exact behavior they would look for from terrorists."

The above is one of the reasons we are in trouble in this country. Seat belt extenders are about 10 - 12 inches long and can be used to ??????? Besides extending the seat belt another 10- 12 inches.

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