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Rick Warren Doubles Down, Accuses Critics Of 'Christophobia'

Posted by Jed Lewison, Daily Kos at 4:37 PM on December 26, 2008.


Rachel Maddow has the video and takes Warren to task for his hypocrisy.

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Via John Aravosis at AMERICAblog, Rick Warren is doubling down and accusing his critics of "hate-speech" and "Christophobia."

 

Rachel Maddow has the video, and takes Warren to task for the hypocrisy of saying that it's unfair to call his views hateful while simultaneously accusing his critics of hate speech. Moreover, as Rachel notes, Warren flat-out lies about his comments comparing gay marriage to pedophilia and incest.

Setting aside Warren's role as inaugural invocation speaker (for a brief moment), I don't think there's any way to defend what he is now saying. I accept the proposition that it's possible to disagree on the issue of gay marriage without calling someone names.

But there's really no comparison between gay marriage and incest or pedophilia, and if Warren thinks they are equivalent, he's either a fan of incest and pedophilia, or he has serious problem with gay people. And calling his critics "Christophobes" just makes matters worse.

A simple apology from Warren for having made the comparison probably would have made this whole controversy go away. But now he's doubling down, and it's just making matters worse.

:::

Anytime Rick Warren's name is mentioned, there seems to be a fair number of people who just want the issue to get swept under the rug. I have great sympathy for that view. I want this mess to go away, too. Obviously, the last thing we need is a divisive force at the inauguration.

But it's important to remember that it is Rick Warren who is the divider, and the real division isn't between those who think he should speak at the inaugural and those who don't, it's between those who would deny gay citizens the same rights and privileges as everybody else, and those who believe gay citizens deserve the same rights and privileges as everybody else.

That's the real division, and Rick Warren is on the wrong side. Unfortunately, we're stuck with him, barring any unforeseen developments. But that doesn't mean we have to resign ourselves to accepting his views -- nor does it mean that Rick Warren has ruined the inauguration.

The truth is that this is a situation that demands a complex political position, recognizing that Obama's team screwed up by inviting Warren without losing sight of the fact that inauguration day will still be a great day, signifying not just the end of Bush's reign, but also the triumph of this nation over the terrible scourge of racism.

:::

Rick Warren's presence at the inauguration is a fitting symbol of the work that is still to be done, and perhaps the best thing that has come out of this whole affair is that those who support gay rights have learned how important their voice is.

In the end, Barack Obama's record on gay rights will be measured by what he accomplishes, and what he is able to accomplish will in large part be determined by what we as citizens empower him to achieve.

In recent days, we've once again seen the fundamental truth of those three little words: yes we can.

As Obama himself has said many times, it's not about him. It's about us, and what we can achieve, united. We have so much work to do, and we can't lose site of the fact that part of that work is achieving full equality under the law for all citizens, regardless of sexual orientation.


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Those poor oppressed straight, white, christian, men
Posted by: sonofloud on Dec 26, 2008 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will they ever get a break???

"For once the rich, white man has the power" - Monty Burns

PS like organized religion doesn't control the government enough already???

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» It all ends shortly anyway... Posted by: SevenStarHand
T.M. Scruggs
Posted by: tmscruggs on Dec 26, 2008 5:26 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We" are stuck with him? Those who hit the streets here in Iowa and basically got Obama to where he will be in a month didn't do it so that he would appoint a bunch of right-wing Clintonites to fill his cabinet and now, just to spit in our faces, invite this reactionary to the inauguration.
So much for "change" -- Obama supporters here in Iowa are puking in the snow.

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» RE: T.M. Scruggs Posted by: leland61
» RE: T.M. Scruggs Posted by: kungfuma
The only thing I like about Pigface Warren speaking at the inauguration...
Posted by: pelican beak on Dec 26, 2008 8:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... is that he gets to endure a lengthy time with a high profile being displayed before the public as the lying opportunist he really is.

Obama has given us this opportunity - "OK American people - let the rest of America know what you really think about this guy." Not a day goes by now that he doesn't face scrutiny on a big stage that he wouldn't face otherwise. I look forward to a huge crowd turning their back on him when he speaks on Jan 20. Nobody should pass up a single opportunity to mock this Christoclown for the obvious hypocritical fool he really is.

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» Now just a minute! Posted by: gnaw_bone
Christophobia?
Posted by: darter22 on Dec 26, 2008 8:35 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rick, your assholery is real and your Jebus is not. It's not your imaginary friend I don't like, it's your f@cked up "values".

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» Amen.... Posted by: SevenStarHand
Interesting Revelation from Warren
Posted by: Friend Of Jonathan on Dec 26, 2008 8:44 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By accusing everyone who has criticized him of being 'Christophobes', Rick Warren has committed the penultimate blasphemy: he has declared himself to be Christ.

Because the criticism has been of him, and his statements, which do not reflect anything Christ taught. So, when Warren defines criticism of his statements as hatred or rejection of Christ, he is declaring himself to be Christ.

So, Rev. Warren, if you or your flunkies are reading Alternet: I know Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ is a friend of mine, and reverend, you are no Jesus Christ.

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Here's the rub........
Posted by: peridot on Dec 26, 2008 10:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rick Warren is nothing. Just another huckster on the make. Obama on the other hand is using this hypocrite to play a sort of wedge politics game knowing full well that there are more religious whacko's out there than gays. MESSAGE TO Mr. OBAMA.....
Democracy is the real religion of America, We don't need another moralizer. Drop this kind of political-religious bullshit. We didn't elect a national reverend. You were elected to a constitutional office, not a fucking pulpit. Happy New Year.

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Racial Prejudice or Gay Prejudice-Not so different
Posted by: zoez on Dec 27, 2008 12:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but wonder if Rev. Warren had expressed racial prejudice, instead of prejudice against gays, if Obama would still be so enthusiastic about him?

Why is it OK for blacks to look down on gays now? I guess gays are the last group left to discriminate against.

This from a white, straight, older woman who strongly supported Obama. I think he could have made a better choice of Rev. for his inauguration. Why couldn't he have picked someone who tries to bring people together in the true spirit of Christianity?

I am disappointed in Obama, and think Rick Warren is a mean, nasty guy hiding under the cloak of religion.

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» RE: Prejudice is taught Posted by: Lauren
Alas, Christ!
Posted by: Penros on Dec 27, 2008 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, how they love to hide behind Jesus! who never said a word against homosexuality, abortion or many "sins" the Xians have made up. They spend hours grubbing around in the Really, Really Old Testament looking for ways that they can feel superior by throwing a mote in their neighbors' eyes. It's a lot easier than dealing with the log in theirs that blinds them to the truth.

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Alas, Christ!
Posted by: Penros on Dec 27, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, how they love to hide behind Jesus! who never said a word against homosexuality, abortion or many "sins" the Xians have made up. They spend hours grubbing around in the Really, Really Old Testament looking for ways that they can feel superior by throwing a mote in their neighbors' eyes. It's a lot easier than dealing with the log in theirs that blinds them to the truth.

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Christians have always Feared the 'Evangelicals'
Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 27, 2008 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as the Muslims have to contend with looney Tunes sects, so do Christians.
Granted most 'Christian 'sects reject Gay marriage and Abortion. But NOT all Chrisitian sects have such a morbid facination with St Johns Revelations.
No matter how they try todisguise it, Evngelicals have a mental Boner about End of Days.
This is not a purely Christian obsession - aka Jihadists.
This belief that the end will come in some fiery of Battle between Good & Evil, That they and they alone will be 'saved' or rewarded is far older than Christianity. Christians were told by Jesus that 'Only the Father Knows' when the end will come.So discussion about 'signs' is presumptuous. Not to mention discussing (and claiming) Who will be spared or saved is an Exercise in 'Pride' (one of 7 deadly sins)
Add to that the FACT that Jesus welcomed Outcasts, and 'sinners' into his ministry...
Saddlebacks Website basically stating 'Gays need not apply' throws their adherence to Jesus' teaching in question.
Thus such Evangelical dogma (agendas) is fundementally Non Christian.
Warren (and the Rest of the 'Evangelicals') Doesn't need to prove he is not an asshole, he needs to Prove he's even a Christian.

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» Finish Jesus' admonition Posted by: floridahank
» RE: Finish Jesus' admonition Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
This, too, shall pass
Posted by: sawdust on Dec 27, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The more energy we waste on Rick Warren, the more energy we waste, period. He is the latest populist and sensationalist version of Sarah Palin. He is a practitioner of Jesusology, which is not Christianity, but a soul-less cover for biases of all manner. The idea of Christ is completely over-dubbed by the notions of popularity, power and the implicit notions that it is acceptable to be hateful, bigoted, spiteful and disingenuous if you say, "The Bible Tells me So". Horsehockey.

It is better he pray now and go away. Get him and his ilk out of the way early on, and let us move on. The more attention he gets, the more he wants. He lives in a world of comfortable delusion and we should stop enabling his life style by talking about him too much. Stop helping him stick the ego needle in his arm.

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What? Me Superstitious?
Posted by: pcushniesr on Dec 27, 2008 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am now sticking pins into my Rick Warren doll! Take that in the eye that sees evil where it doesn't exist! Take that in the ear that cannot truly hear! Take that in your filth-spewing mouth! Take that and that and that!

And please, Mr. Obabma, don't ever cause me to make a doll of you!

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Who is this Christian and what do we know about him?
Posted by: shaman0979 on Dec 27, 2008 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This fellow has evangelical Southern Baptist written all over him, irrespective of how nondenominational his church is. Yes, he has a right to his viewpoint, and his queer notion that the Bible and all it's post-Enlightenment fundamentalist interpretation, fell to earth one day, written in a Readers Digest vernacular. I, as well, have a right to call his worldview, based on literalist biblicism, twisted hermeneutic and other such rampant disfiguring of ancient faith tradition,.....blatant crap!

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dick
Posted by: rtmyth on Dec 27, 2008 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wonderful charlatan with millions of gullible, ignorant contributors; only in the USA. We are the laughingstock of the world.

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I CALL FOR ALL YOU WHO WILL ATTEND
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Dec 27, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the inaguration to BOOOOO this creep when he comes on to spout his lies and other bullshit.

If you are reading here and are attending, I CHALLENGE YOU!!
I would if I was able to attend.

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The underlying theme here..
Posted by: bluepilgrim on Dec 27, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just gays and gay marriage, nor just keeping women in the 'place', or the other specifics; it that Warren is Christian right wing, with all that implies, and that he did not just happen to show up from a grab bag for the inauguration: Obama took the trouble to quite deliberately choose this guy, instead of some 'generic cleric' who would have gone unnoticed. This is 'sending a message'.

The message is, basically, progressives, and the center, for that matter, can stuff it. It's along the same lines as his choosing banksters, war mongers and conservatives for his cabinet, and his plans to leave troops and bases in Iraq, escalate the the war on Afghanistan, support his support for Zionist attacks on Palestine, for domestic spying and control such as with the FISA bill vote, and for 'faith-based' government services. This is symbolic of his reluctance to repudiate the policies of Bush and neocons (which he is apparently going to let get away with their crimes).

Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth. He says it's not about him but about us. This is not about Warren but about Obama, and his choices -- and the more choices he has made the further from any idea of "us" I am. I am not part of 'us' with Warren, who represents a very real threat to American democracy. Obama is drawing lines, and I'm on the other side of them; I'm guessing that many people are.

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» I hope you're wrong Posted by: sunspot
» RE: I hope you're wrong Posted by: bluepilgrim
Whatever the "god" of the ..........
Posted by: tap17x on Dec 27, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...........Old Testament hates is a good candidate for something to love. Said "God" is a pathological sadist. And many people worship him. How scary. Rick, read the fucking Bible, including all its hateful messages, contradictions, and errors, and stop your pitiful propagandizing for bucks.

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» It's symbology stupid... Posted by: SevenStarHand
It's just a possibility, but.......
Posted by: tap17x on Dec 27, 2008 9:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
......I wonder if Obama chose this asshole to tell us not to expect too much of him. He has horrible problems to deal with so he may not be able to get much done. The Refucklicans will be waiting to pounce with their ever-ready supply of lies.

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MORE ELECTION RHETORIC?
Posted by: openeye on Dec 27, 2008 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess I am just not enough of a dyed in the wool activist rebel, complete with Cyclopsian vision, as there is still a part of me that would like to see some human decency in the dialogues. I find Rachel Maddow's tone of voice and her consistent smirking to be disturbing, especially considering that she is taking down Warren for HIS "hate speech." Well, how about that old Golden Rule? (Pretty much all we will ever need...) I am rather tired of the pot calling the kettle black, of taking down one another for being human and retreating to our respective soapboxes instead of perhaps beginning with an assumption that there is a person who could possibly expand their vision - ourselves included! I think Maddow appears more concerned with furthering her own career in her efforts to "reveal" what a reprehensible human being Warren is. Lets face it, most of the stuff in the video were questions that had been fed to him, and if you have ever had an auto accident, you know how utterly misleading questions with an agenda from your insurance agent can be - even when you believe you are telling the truth! I thought his answers were reasonable considering that he thinks much differently than most of us who are reading this. I'm not sure that Maddow's attacks are going to do much to expand his vision - but it sure does provide yet another channel for vitriolic diatribes against people who think differently.
Come on people, you say you want PEACE. Well, it begins with being willing to listen. I know we have been pushed into an abyss for the last 8-plus years, but we have the chance to make something new out of this mess. Obama is a cautious man I believe, and he is working on getting his bearings. Yeah, we don't like the "repeats" he is pulling along, but my thought is that this man thinks - as opposed to our former "decider" - and once he has made the transition and watches things running a bit, he will work diligently to effect change. At least that is my hope. My own thoughts are that we need to let a lot of this whole corrupt system just die, and get on with the real issues of our time, which are rules and regulations that promote equality, fairness and support for the WHOLE planet. Working on what this country alone needs - well, that is the past to me. To paraphrase Gandhi a bit - we need to BE the change we want to see. So come on Maddow - walk your talk!

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» RE: MORE ELECTION RHETORIC? Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Meet the New Boss...
Posted by: mishi on Dec 27, 2008 1:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any progressive who places high hopes on liberal Democrat is doomed to disappointment, but at least Slick Willie waited till after his inauguration to b***h-slap us with DOMA and DADT. Slick Barry apparently feels no such compunctions. What with his backtracking on campaign pledges, reactionary appointments, and picking Jesus H. Warren, O is shaping up to be not even a New Democrat, but another George H. W. Bush. Hope I'm wrong, but...

I'm heartily sick of Obama-heads telling us to have faith in his post-ideological brilliance, but not as sick as I am of straight commentators chidling us qu**r folks not to be offended.

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» RE: Meet the New Boss... Posted by: tennismom
» RE: Meet the New Boss... Posted by: openeye
I'm Phobic Of Warren's "Christ"
Posted by: rgoalierob on Dec 27, 2008 1:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It ain't MY Christ.

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Rick Warren is a Charlatan and hypocritcal Hack..!
Posted by: TJColatrella on Dec 27, 2008 1:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rick Warren is a hack and a charlatan and his selection should give us all pause as to just how much change we will see with the Obama regime, as well as casting a cloud upon the judgment of our President elect, considering also some of his terrible Cabinet selections...

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Waynep
Posted by: waynep on Dec 27, 2008 7:09 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a dyed in the wool, old fashioned liberal. I am a 60 yr. old straight white guy who has stood proudly with my gay friends and support to equality. I think religion equals superstition, with a mean twist in application. All religions. Having said that...my friends, we won the war..we elected our candidate..he will make good changes, and hopefully will be able to do it with a larger backing of the general population than we could generate on our own. We NEED not to sabotage everything we have accomplished by getting bent out of shape over who is going to pray at the inauguration. Do you really think it is going to make a damn bit of difference?
Rick Warren is not the devil. He is far from the most evil of the televangelist types. He actually seems to try to do some good for someone other than himself. He is simply wrong on many issues. So, probably, are most of us. He is not being put on the cabinet. He is not becoming a spiritual adviser to Obama. He is just going to say some generic little prayer that will mean diddly crap in reality. Save your energy and enraged dialog for something important. We do no one a service by screaming that the sky is falling every time someone does not meet our standards of policy purity. If Warren can be helpful on issues regarding poverty and environment (issues on which he is closer to us than most evangelicals), thank you. Those are important issues as well. We have the power to fix what needs to be fixed, to create the allies that we need, to bring success regarding the causes we believe it.
This prayer thing is WAY to little to being raising a sweat over. Truth will prevail in the end.

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» RE: Waynep Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Waynep Posted by: Lauren
Wasting time and energy
Posted by: Dracon on Dec 28, 2008 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why worry about some charlatan preacher who will get 5 minutes of airtime for his bizarre ideas? What importance does it have compared to the question of holding the outgoing administration responsible for their assorted misdeeds?

Why waste our time writing about uninportant decissions we do not happen to agree with when there are giant problems and questions confronting us? Write about investigating Catherine Harris, Rove, the lack of impeachment proceedings against Cheney and Bush ! Question the president elects stance on these questions, do not waste effort on criticizing which liar will swear him into office. That is a waste of the most precious resources we have.

Want to know why liberal media gets clobbered so often? Wasting our influence. we squander it on unimportant things!

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» RE: Wasting time and energy Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Wasting time and energy Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Why not Rev. Fred Phelps
Posted by: corgyn on Dec 28, 2008 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is just a matter of style - they both are gay bashers and both need to be isolated and rejected.

What amazes me is that belief in one imaginary friend gets you a slot at the inauguration and and another's imaginary friend gets them locked in a padded room.

Delusional either way - it is time to stop being nice to idiot Xians - I'm no longer an atheist - I am an anti-theist

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» RE: Delusional either way Posted by: Lauren
An Invocation is A Prayer
Posted by: dhoa1 on Dec 28, 2008 12:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of this discussion, it seems to me, about who is speaking the invocation at Barack Obama's First Inauguration, is quite unnecessary. Mr. Obama has chosen a person who is an experienced Christian minister, and what Mr. Warren says in the invocation are words that will be addressed to God, asking for his support and guidance. End of story.

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Ridiculous
Posted by: maddy on Dec 28, 2008 1:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They imagine that he will ram some of his secular ideas into them with a furious force. But that is not true, his appointees are all fair minded and highly intelligent.

By implication then, are secularists neither fair-minded nor highly intelligent? Ever read up on the number of founding fathers who were agnostic or atheists? (Hint: it's not a small percentage.)

So, the separation of church and state, which, by the way, was a founding principle of the United States? The rule of law? Defending the Constitution? Universal health care? A renewed public infrastructure and government oversight of corporations? And, oh, historically? We're the ones that fought to end slavery, to give women the right to vote, to secure the rights of laborers to have decent wages, and to end Jim Crow. In other words: WE are the ones who asked the U.S. to live up to its founding promises of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," and "All men are created equal." Yeah, we secularists sure are batsh** crazy aren't we?!!!!!

As opposed to, ya know, 8 years of Bush in which we had all of the following "rammed" with a "furious force:" torture, illegal and perpetual war, singing statements, unwarranted wiretapping of U.S. citizens, crony capitalism, and the collapse of both our public infrastructure and the U.S. economy.

Give me a break. The American people voted in a landslide victory for OUR values and policies, not those of the radical Christian right who want to replace our Constitution with a Christian theocracy! And yet we have to endure these repeated attacks on us that somehow we are the dangerous ones, the ones who we must be "kept in our place," while their hatemongers are welcome at the table. Ridiculous.

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RE: Slow And Easy
Posted by: AuntBec on Dec 30, 2008 12:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other words, Rick Warren is just a big fat tube of KY Jelly? Do you really think that these Christoidiots can ever be "put at ease"?

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So the bloggers think they can make Obama their puppet...
Posted by: Jasonix on Dec 28, 2008 5:25 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea here seems to be that if all the bloggers gang up and raise a ruckus, they can make Obama do whatever they want. They think that Warren is a perfect opportunity to test their muscle. They hope to make it impossible for non-cultural leftists to take part in the new order - even though they elected a black evangelical Christian who talked about his conversion experience and personal relationship with Christ on the trail, and attended a black evangelical church for two decades, they fantasize that they're on the verge of installing an anti-religion regime that'll sweep away all traditional ideas about how humans should behave. Once they've scuttled Warren, they'll be after James Howard Kunstler (who called homosexuality "gender confusion" and notes casually that gender equality between men and women is the result of cheap energy) and a host of others who have done great work in various areas related to genuinely important issues - global warming, war, poverty, peak oil - but who aren't sympathetic enough toward people who want to f*ck and smoke whatever they want without anyone being able to even mention that stupid actions one does with one's body can have serious consequences.

That's because there are a whole lot of "progressives" out there who really care only about f*cking and smoking and ensuring that morality gets re-written so no one looks down their noses at them. Most of these "progressives" would be quite happy to have a society where millions are starving, New York City is underwater, and coal plants belch filth into the sky so long as they aren't the ones starving or swimming, and no one questions their prerogative to hump whatever they like.

What we need is a real alternative media that cares a lot more about the immediate threats to human survival and a lot less about "cultural" crap.

I could be way off-base, of course, and AlterNet's real agenda might be to re-invigorate the Religious Right so that AlterNet will have something to write about.

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Justifiable phobia
Posted by: Jeanne on Dec 28, 2008 5:39 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the Crusades (and probably before), the world has had repeated experience with Christians on a mission. It never turns out well for native peoples, or non-Christians. And it often turns out badly if you're the wrong brand of Christian when BrandX is on the mission and you're not BrandX. So, in my opinion, the "phobia" is justifiable caution, skepticism, and rejection of the track record of Christians. Rev Warren shouldn't take it personally.

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RE: POOR RACHAEL? No way! She is hot, a rising star.
Posted by: Lauren on Dec 29, 2008 12:53 PM   
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I saw that it was reported Anderson Cooper had unkind words to say about her, the report was vastly overblown. There is a word for that, it is called stirring up trouble. Anderson's comments were quite bland, HE is a gentleman. I hope no one thinks stirring up conflict between the two of them is a way to get ratings.

It worked for Keith because Billo is such a nonsensical blowhard, Rachel and Anderson should both strive to be good at delivering us the news, not dissing each other. I hope it is beneath them both.

Here is some juicy news, we finally get to talk about jewish people. Yeah! (first time ever, I guess it is was the pagan Yule - thank you Great Spirit, it was just what I wanted for Christmas but was too afraid to ask)

The Third Rail of “Israel” Cools in the Blogosphere
By: Jane Hamsher Monday December 29

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RE: POOR RACHAEL
Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney on Dec 29, 2008 1:47 PM   
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No, we all don't agree. I think what ever they are paying her is not nearly the amount she is worth.

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ESS,S JIM RODRIGUEZ
Posted by: SJR505 on Dec 29, 2008 7:18 AM   
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Yes, Rachel should adhere to reporting the news...She should be the last person to talk about "Gays", since she has got a partner...
What is needed is another "so-called" pastor to renounce this insidious person....
Remember, recordar :


One day we will learn that the heart can never be totally right if the head is totally wrong. Only through the bringing together of head and heart – intelligence and goodness – shall man rise to a fulfillment of his true nature.- Martin Luther King Jr.,

But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong. - 1 Corinthians 1:27

It is so much easier sometimes to sit down and be resigned than to rise up and be indignant. S Jim Rodriguez, Eclecticist Spirit Seeker

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» RE: SS,S JIM RODRIGUEZ Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Invocation? At a governmental function?
Posted by: RON_KING on Dec 29, 2008 9:25 PM   
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How is this not a violation of the establishment clause?

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ...”

And while congress made no law requiring an invocation, they might as well have if such religious ceremonies are allowed to be performed at government functions. The meaning behind the clause is that no US Government official may show favoritism for one religion over another. To remove favoritism, EVERY religion must be invited to perform a similar ceremony. For those that argue that atheism is a religion, yes, let an atheist stand up and perform whatever ceremony conveys “invocation” to them. We should be done about time to “swear in” the next holder of the office.

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Oh Good Gawd
Posted by: AuntBec on Dec 30, 2008 12:52 AM   
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I freakin' HATE religion and all the bullshit and nonsense it brings with it, including all of us feeling the need to talk about this shit........

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Ha ha ha, Moon-bats...none of the Warren articles made the "most read" list
Posted by: Jasonix on Dec 30, 2008 7:26 AM   
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Hey, Moonbats - if you check the site's statistics, you see that none of the Warren articles are on the "most read" list. That's because NOBODY CARES.

Having established that all this hype about Warren is a complete waste of time and effort, let me go on to state a few heresies:

Gay people are entitled to work at their jobs, apply for credit, determine who makes medical decisions, and shares their property without any harassment from the government. Gay people are not entitled to have no one question their lifestyle, or have no one express disgust or disapproval. As long as these expressions of disgust and disdain are not taking place at your job and do not involve attempts to physically intimidate you or take away your property, and as long as people respect your right to be left alone when you say enough's enough, then other Americans have every right to say that they think you're icky, sinful, or whatever.

You have no legal protection from bad reputations or the dislike of others. There is no such right in the constitution.

Every single person in this country is subject to the displeasure of someone else on account of something about them. People who smoke, people who have straight sex in ways that others disapprove of, people who don't exercise, people who do exercise, people who wear tacky clothing, people who wear good clothing, people who are smart, people who are dumb, etc. all face the displeasure of some portion of the public. The right of each person is political tolerance - the right to do what one wants to do if it doesn't hurt others. That right doesn't include the right to be universally liked, to walk around in your own bubble without ever hearing someone express their discomfort at what you do.

Obama is the president of all Americans - including those that don't like you. We all have to come together to work on more important things than your social acceptance right now.

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AMERIKKKA GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT!
Posted by: Noor on Dec 31, 2008 8:50 AM   
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AMERIKKKA is indeed what you say, currently a laughing stock around the globe for one reason or another. Yawl never learn from the past! And you fell for Obummer the same way you fell for Clinton. "Change" "hope" yada yada and then, disillusion. This time skin colour was part of the plan. No one bothered to check his lineage to see that he, too, is of the royal (spits) Merovingian bloodline. And when it did come out that he was related to Cheney, no one listened, the story was buried.

But you are not a laughingstock due to this big mouthed religious buffoon who will soon pass into obscurity. This buffoon is where he is to distract you all from the reality of your nation's criminal negligence and participation of what is being done in Palestine. I dare not even blame the Zionists because then my message will be ignored and most will go off on a racist or anti Semitic rant at me.

Focus your attention on lives of those being erased by genocide for political points in their homeland. Take action, contact your leaders and talk to them about this horror. This bigot is NOTHING! These lives and the crimes being committed are MAJOR and by doing nothing, we all are complicit in it. Do you really want to be able to say, "yes it was a holocaust and I ignored it."?

THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN PALESTINE, THE GAZA STRIP. THINK OF THE GENOCIDE YOU SUPPORT WHEN LAPDOG OBUMMER FOLLOWS THE PATH OF HIS PREDECESSORS BY OBEYING HIS MASTERS AND THAT DISGUSTING PELOSI PERSON IN PROMOTING GENOCIDE!

This fuss over a non entity like what's his name is a diversion to keep you from thinking of what is! And what is is... GENOCIDE.

You all should be wise enough to know about this time tested technique. Give the masses something to complain about and they will not focus on the IMPORTANT things!

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