Still think that we're a nation NOT in decline?!

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Why am I not surprised? This congress give's GW a free ride to do whatever illegal act he wants to do.

And the Democrats do NOT have a high moral ground to stand on...they joined to pass this terrible bill.

When are the American people gunna wake up and notice that with every "patriotic" bill passed, every "anti-terror" bill passed that more and more of their rights are being flushed down the toilet?

And the freakin' republicans are coming up in the polls again...guess the scare em tactics do work on "we the people".

People love to be scared...thus the popularity of the slasher movies...

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i am shocked and discussed that our elected reps,or anybody would legalize TORTURE!!!how can any normal human condone torture?this just can't be!what can we the people do to correct this horrific hell-law?shameful! sorrowful!shocking!

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I can not believe that "civilized" men and women would do such a thing. I feel like this is a bad "B" movie and I am stuck in the middle of it. America is sliding down into an abyss that will be hard to climb out of. The anti -Christ is amoung us.

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My American friends - With the majority of the public, the military and the intelligence services against Bush, a small group of conservative extremists managed to pass this bill to ALLOW TORTURE, indefinite detention of suspects without firm evidence and free interpretation of the Geneva convention right under everyone's noses.

YOU ARE ALL LIVING IN A FASCIST NATION.

And yet everyone keeps silent. Too much comfort. Too much complacency. Shame on you.

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And george w. bush is the fucking anti-christ.

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This is but another abuse coming down the pike. It is now a train out of control and there is nothing short of revolution that will stop it! There is nothing else to do now but watch it end in fire and smoke. No vote, no politician, no letters, no phone calls, no emails no money will change their mind. The die is cast, welcome to Nazi America, land of the imprisoned!

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I propose a new commercial to be played in the district of every Rep or Senator that votes for this bill. To show the sights and sounds of a human being waterboarded. And an announcer or in silent print says something like this. "Imagine if our goverment received faulty intelligence about this detainee. Imagine if he is innocent. Imagine that the whole world is watching.........."

"Rep or Sen. XYZ voted for a bill that makes it perfectly legal to torture people suspected of terrorism. Is this really America?"

Won't happen, but too many people are willing to look the other way on this stuff because they don't have to be confronted the REALITY of going along with an evil administration.

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Everyone so lacking in spirit as to vote for 'I am the decider' to torture at will as the judge of all men is strong on terror (can't get enough of it, can't spread it fast or far enough, and ,weak on democracy, .

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We have a Regime taking over America and it's been here for 6 years. Mr. Bush will stop at nothing to make things go his way. This is just another SLAP in the face of all America. But wait, the best is taking place within the next 2 days. That's the total retroactive immunity from his WAR CRIMES. Contact your Representatives immediately. This individual should be tried by a panel of of his peers, not the one's he chooses. Impeachment proceedings are more than warrented. This boy has done far more damage to America than President Clinton and President Nixon put together!!!

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When will we STOP giving George Bush control??? Enough already..he needs to be impeached before it's too late...re-defining the Geneva Convention!?!?!? Where does the "sanctioned" arrogance stop?

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After this I have lost all hope, The u.s.a. is down the drain. I have told all of my friends that Mr. Bush would be the next president, they he ha me, but now they see the truth has come out, I say before the next presidental election we will get Mr. Ben and have a attack of some sort and Mr. Buish will call off the election and he will be the next president. This bill we just passed is the one that got the ball rolling now it is down hill for him the rest of the way, What a shame the u.s.a. had to end by this president. BUT IT HAS ENDED ALL WE CAN DO NOW IS CRY AND PRAY. bigtime

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Caved to "Dear Leader's" temper tantrums, I see.

I don't recognize this country anymore, do you?

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... it makes you a damn fool. Laws that revoke our Constitutional rights are bad laws. A bad law is one that gets rid of due process and equal protection under the law. This torture bill is a bill of attainder. It is a bad law because there is no due process or equal protection under the law. Congress is forbidden to pass Bill of Attainders, Article 1, section 9, clause 3. A bill of attainder is a law that inflicts pains and penalties on a person without a judicial trial. It violates the separation of power by allowing an administrative agency, not a court of record, to conduct a trial and inflict punishment. When Congress passes laws that circumvent the Constitution such as this torture bill and the Patriots Act is another very good example, it commits an unlawful criminal trespass on people’s inalienable rights guaranteed in the Constitution.

Simply speaking this torture law, like so many others before it, has no legal standing. To have legal standing requires jurisdiction. Administrative agencies have no jurisdiction because they are not recognized by the Constitution. Only a court of law has the power to charge a person with a crime or offense. Only a court of law can establish legal jurisdiction over a person because only a court of law was established by the Constitution, Judicial Branch. Congress, or the defense department, or IRS, or social security, attorney general, FBI, CIA etc, cannot issue a notice to appear and hold a trial and inflict pains and penalties because they are not a court of law. If done correctly and according to the Constitutuion these agency must go to the courts and ask the courts to issue a public document that proves the accused was given fair notice about the charges.

A court of public record is due process in the works. Our Rights are unconditional and non-transferable. Due process is an unconditional and non-transferable right. This means Congress cannot change the Constitution by passing a law that puts conditions on our rights. The Veterans Administration, Social Security, Defense Department etc are administrative agencies amonst the 1000’s we have established. They have hearings not trials. When records are absent or secretive so is due process. Absence of due process makes the whole process unconstitutional, null, void.

Congress is strictly forbidden by the Constitution to pass bills that single out a person and allow for the infliction of pains and penalties without a judicial trial. This is called a bill of attainder. Congress also does not have the power to conduct a trial and therefore cannot give away power it does not have. This, however, has not stopped Congress from doing it but it is still a malicious, intentional criminal trespass by Congress on our rights as persons entitled to due process and equal protection under the law. According to the Constitution there are no exceptions to Article 1 section 9 clause 3.

And where is the Supreme Court who is supposed to be in charge of judicial review of Unconstitutional Law? What are they waiting for?

Congress is a product of our own making. To allow Congress to conduct itself without any supervision is irresponsible. In much the same manner as it would be to allow our children to go unsupervised.

Congress is acting like a tyrannical 4 year old. The rules of this democracy are spelled out very plainly and clearly in the Constitution. However, Congress is ignoring the rules and making up their own. Allowing Congress to do this is no less irresponsible then a parent allowing their children to rule the household. Children need discipline and rules to live by or they become overbearing, uncivilized and intolerable. Chaos and an abundance of disharmony and unhappiness is the byproduct. Conclusion on next post.

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As responsible adults we teach our children that actions have consequences. If our children break the rules then they can expect some penalty or punishment to follow. We are allowing Congress to break all the rules our Constitution has duly ordained and established for this democracy without any consequences. This is extremely foolish behavior on our part. This sets very bad precedent. Congress will continue to misbehave because they can and there is little hope that they will of their own accord impose any restrictions limiting their belligerent attitude. Do you know any 4 year old that is capable of self-regulating? Congress for obvious reasons was never meant to be in charge. This government is our responsibility.

Congress is breaking the rules by giving away powers it does not have. Our only recourse as adults is to take our responsibility seriously and impose penalties on our ‘wards’ as promised. There are consequences for misbehavior. In the next election we can impose well-deserved penalties on the bullies and troublemakers by removing them from office.

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Torture, that is. It DOES work for the people authorizing and carrying out the torture. How? It is a big time sexual experience. A turn on. Power is a great aphrodisiac. No one brings attention to that because it wouldn't be the 'Christian' thing to do. Discussions like that aren't allowed. Sorry to go against the grain. But this is not as distasteful to some as it is to others. Countless studies bear this out. Thanks, ANNA

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When I've looked at the history of the USA one thing has always puzzled me. Why did they fight against Hitler during WWII, after all they have always seemd to have more in common with genocidal despots than with free societies. Their methods of empire building have always reeked more of the Congo than any other - All the benefits of Empire, None of the Responsabilities. Even the language they use for self-defence, "Homeland Security" etc begins to reek of "The Thousand Year Reich."

So when I hear that Torture is now being legalised, it doesn't to be honest surprise me at all. I gave up, almost totally,on the USA a long time ago, and now the process is complete. Which makes me sad. I've known many Americans, and most of them have been very nice, warm people, if a little naive. There's a line in the Alatriste books about the Spanish which seems apropos.

"...what we Spaniards (Americans) are like, how our good and gentle people have always been abused, and how easy, because of our generous impulses, it is to win us over, and push us to the brink of the abyss out of meanness or incompetence, when we have always deserved better."

You've lost what you were, ironic realy, a born-again President, has led you all to a second Fall.

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