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Updated twice: America legalizes torture; Dems get played badly

Posted by Joshua Holland at 6:24 PM on September 21, 2006.


This could not possibly have worked out any worse …
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This afternoon, the White House announced that a tentative deal had been struck with the Senate GOP "rebels" -- McCain, Warner and Graham -- that will basically continue the status quo on prisoner detentions and "coercive" interrogations. McCain, it appears, set up the Dems and the media most deftly, and then turned around and sold out America's values for a few primary votes in 2008.

Another measure passed the House that would essentially authorize the administration's formerly illegal domestic surveillance program. Both bills are headed for the Senate -- the detention compromise would then need to go back to the House -- and both are likely to bite Democrats hard on the ass come November no matter which way they vote.

The details of the deal remain somewhat murky. Bush is pleased, saying: "this agreement preserves the single most potent tool we have in protecting America and foiling terrorist attacks." McCain wouldn't say exactly what the White House had conceded, but the AP reports that the administration dropped its attempts to "redefine" Common Article Three of the Geneva Conventions, which bars "humiliating treatment and outrages upon personal dignity." McCain said only that "there is no doubt that the integrity and letter and spirit of the Geneva Conventions have been preserved."

The other sticking points were whether suspects would have access to classified evidence against them in "civilian status review commissions," and whether evidence gained through coercion -- including through the use of techniques long considered to be torture by human right groups --could be admitted. Graham said that there was a provision that would allow suspects access to classified evidence -- and what evidence won't be classified? -- if they are at risk of imprisonment or death, but an administration spokesman said they were interpreting that with a "high bar" and it wouldn't be automatic. Digby says a new JAG office will be formed to review classified evidence. I didn't see any mention about the use of evidence gained through "rough interrogation."

As I pointed out earlier this week, this is a compromise between two bad -- terribly bad and unnecessary -- bills. It was passed at gunpoint, with the administration threatening to discontinue coercive interrogations if they didn't get their way and nobody in the political class willing to call their bluff (remember, more than half of those being held are thought to be innocent and experts are pretty much in agreement that torture doesn't work anyway).

Just to refresh everyone's memory, this is the bill that provides a run-around for the Supreme Court decision in Hamdan back in June (the one that excited everyone so). The Court found that we have a functional judicial system and that kangaroo courts held at Gitmo violated the Geneva Conventions, and they found that Bush had overstepped his asserted powers as Commander-in-Chief. So Bush went to Congress and got legal authorization for the whole shebang. I haven't read anything about whether the compromise gives officials retroactive immunity from prosecution, as the administration hoped -- if you see something about that put it in the comments and I'll update this post.

Update: According to the Washington Post, "the two sides agreed on a list of specified crimes that could provoke prosecution of CIA interrogators and others. They also agreed that past violations of the Geneva Conventions, an international treaty barring degrading and humiliating treatment of detainees, would not result in criminal or civil legal action." Also: the measure "prohibits detainees from using the Geneva Conventions to challenge their imprisonment or seek civil damages for mistreatment, as the administration sought."

The political ramifications are even worse. The House today also passed Heather Wilson's (R-NM) surveillance bill, authorizing that whole electronic eavesdropping mess. Which means that Repubs are going to hustle two "national security" or "anti-terrorism" bills through committee and get votes next week before the Congress breaks for the election season.

Legislators of conscience should filibuster the Torture Bill, but there's just about zero chance of that happening -- there will be enough Dems who need to be "tough on" … whatever they're supposed to be tough on this week to get cloture just a month before a big election. The Nelsons will bite, as will Lieberman, and probably Martinez in that tough race in Jersey, maybe Cantwell -- just to name a few obvious ones. But even if they could muster the votes (and the cojon), the Repubs would be all over the airwaves whining about how they're coddling terrorists and hate babies and puppies.

This measure was right out of Rove's playbook for holding onto the House and Senate, and it was executed perfectly. Meanwhile, the Dems didn't even get in the game, apparently believing -- for reasons that are truly unfathomable -- that McCain and the other "mavericks" would, just this once, stick to their guns and do what's right.

Last week, the AP quoted Harry Reid (D-NE) saying the Dems were sitting on the sidelines "watching the catfights" among Republicans and quipping that the GOP was debating border security "because they have nothing else to do." Well, Harry, they found something to do. And you're the sucker this time.

As Chris Bowers pointed out last week, if the Dems don't turn out their base in big numbers this November, all the happy prognostications of a big win are going to dissipate like a puff of smoke in the wind. The fact that millions of progressives have to sit by and watch this debacle unfold with nary a peep from those supposedly on their side isn't going to help

Digby notes that as well, before summing the whole thing up quite neatly, if depressingly:

Here's how the optics look to me:

McCain, the Republican rebel maverick, showed that Republicans are moral and look out for their troops.

Bush, the Republican statesman and leader, showed that he is committed to protecting Americans but that he is willing to listen and compromise when people of good faith express reservations about tactics.

The Democrats showed they are ciphers who don't have the stones to even say a word when the most important moral issue confronting the government is being debated.

That about covers it. I need a drink.

Update 2: Scott Lemieux has some more details.

Also, I have no idea how E.J. Dionne remains so perky and upbeat all the time, but I should take a lesson -- this is by no means a done deal. They have one week to get the Torture Bill finalized and get two chambers to pass it, and last week Christopher Shays (R-CT) said he wasn't sure they had the votes to get it through the House.

In other words, this is no time to mope — there are representatives and senators who you need to contact. Tell them that coercive interrogation isn't effective, you don't trust the administration to decide what is and what is not acceptable and you see it all not as a question of national security but as a transparent political ploy.

One other thing to consider. As Josh Marshall put it, the "compromise is that we agreed not to reinterpret the Geneva Conventions, only to continue violating them." The Washington Post editorial board sees it the same way. That means that the legislation, on its face, may well be unconstitutional (ratified treaties become domestic law second only to the Constitution itself).

Digg!

Joshua Holland is a staff writer at Alternet and a regular contributor to The Gadflyer.


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Laws change nothing . . .
Posted by: JCR on Sep 21, 2006 7:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just curious - how would more legislation change the fact that prisoners are and will continue to be tortured in Eurocamps and probably in every banana republic? I mean the Geneva convention was basically being pissed on before this came to a vote so exactly what did you think codifying some easily sidestepped legislation would do to combat this kind of behavior, especially that which is being conducted outside our borders?

I mean honestly - this looks good on our human rights jacket but the contents of the file speaks for itself: prisoners will continue to be tortured one way or another because Bu$hco will get what it wants one way or another. People act as if laws are something this administration has any intent of respecting. Isn't this just more window dressing intended to pacify our last remaining allies? Yeah - when people like Sarkozy are elected, we'll be right back where we started now won't we?

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» Huh? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Huh? Posted by: JCR
» RE: Huh? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Laws change nothing . . . Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Laws Change EVERYTHING Posted by: AdamSelene40
quick question
Posted by: autonomie on Sep 22, 2006 2:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain, it appears, set up the Dems and the media most deftly, and then turned around and sold out America's values for a few primary votes in 2008.

Both bills ... are likely to bite Democrats hard on the ass come November no matter which way they vote.

In simpler terms, you say:

1. Torture is against American values
2. If Dems vote against torture, voters will punish them for it

What is your explanation for this logical incongruency?

(I am firmly opposed to torture, no need to make random assumptions about me. Hopefully that frees people to concentrate on the issue.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: quick question Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: quick question Posted by: Magginkat
» RE: quick question Posted by: Leman
» RE: quick question Posted by: midwestblue
» In a nutshell ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
Wash your hands of it Dems!
Posted by: brad on Sep 22, 2006 5:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What about obstaining from the vote? The Dems should just go home now, simply say they are not going to even take part in a bill on torture, that their is already an international rule of law. Realistically thay have already gone home and they played not part in this bill anyway, so why not just let the Rep's own this one? This of course won't happen because not only do the dems not have the cajones, they don't have the brains to come up with an offensive plan.

Wow, our nation is going to codify torture in law! What a day.

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Rove involved?
Posted by: amo on Sep 22, 2006 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been thinking from the beginning that this whole "rebellion" by some Senators was all a set up. Look, the idea of rejecting the Geneva Conventions outright would be a hard sell. So why not set it up that Bush gets to play his usual hardlined, hard-nosed, "I just want to do everything to protect America" role. Then, rather than having Senate Dems get to be the voice of reason, why not have a few select, well-credentialed in this area Repub Senators stand up to a fairly unpopular President during mid-terms -- when Americans seem to be leaning more towards the "we need a change, we need someone to control Bush" thinking. Perfect, in the end, they compromise -- the WH gets what it wanted all along (with a few modifications that they would have had to have accepted anyway) and Republicans get to go back campaigning saying "see we do have principles and we aren't just a rubber stamp" Sound familiarly Rovian?

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» RE: ove involved? Posted by: markusmark
Stalag 17
Posted by: famouspipeliner on Sep 22, 2006 6:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched Stalag 17 the other night...you know the old b/w WW2 picture...and the Nazis in the film are the vanguards of civilization compared to the GOP. An inspector from Geneva visits the camp, is allowed to talk with a prisoner (whose torture consists being kept awake) and verbally berates Stalag 17's commandant.
By legalization barbarism, the GOP has confirmed its moral status once and for all. The president is a war criminal by any standard...changing the terms of what 'torture' means by an an American statute doesn't mean a damn thing George. You could take a lesson from the Nazis in Stalag 17 by at the very least, trying to make it look like you are complying with Geneva.

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» and Water Boarding Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: and Water Boarding Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: and Water Boarding Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: and Water Boarding Posted by: JSquercia
» Waterboardinghouse Posted by: fifthworld
What will it take?
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Sep 22, 2006 6:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What will have to happen before the people of the US wake up to the fact that our government is out of control? We are a "loose cannon" in the world today, not the only one but we are the most dangerous one.

After WWII the German people told the rest of the world that they didn't know about the holocaust. We don't have that excuse. Our government bombs the innocent civilians in Iraq and tortures prisoners openly, in fact, proudly. We all know about it and give our tacit consent. It's not enough to say, "I didn't vote for them".

Harry Truman had a well-known sign on his desk "The Buck Stops Here". I think that slogan was in the wrong place. It should be on the frontdoor mat of every home in America.

What can we do? There is an election coming up. If you really are opposed to torture join The Lincolm Initiative. Stand up to both parties. Tell them both to come out against torture immediately. Tell them both that you can't vote for a party that's for torture. It's their choice. Tell them that if neither party is against torture you'll cast a protest vote for "Honest Abe". Maybe we can't stop torture but at least our consciences and the rest of the world will know that we tried. Stand up and be counted!
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.

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» RE: What will it take? Posted by: paschn
Bring Back Maher Arar
Posted by: Gaubladt on Sep 22, 2006 8:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without the ability for an injured party seek redress, justice would be denied and torture would become commonplace. For example, the Soviets had all kinds of laws against torture while their gulag was in full bloom.
Is there any way someone like John Conyers could subpoena "Maher Arar" and use the publicity to derail the tortue legislation.

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» Why Syria? Posted by: Jeanne
The author has it wrong - Dems played along, not got played
Posted by: DCostello2 on Sep 22, 2006 8:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sick and tired of people trying to 'revive' the Democratic party. The Democrats are just as guilty, if not more so, then the Republicans are. They don't need to be revived, they certainly didn't get played. They need to be dumped, just like the Republicans, and let's elect some representatives that actually represent the people they're supposed to represent.

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» You're simply wrong ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: You're simply wrong ...again. Posted by: Joshua Holland
» 2 sides, same capitalist coin Posted by: YinRising
Josh, I Got A Question
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 22, 2006 9:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you know of any nice english speaking countries that take American migrants? I do not recognize this country anymore and do not like many of the trends I see. I am not encouraged.

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» RE: Josh, I Got A Question Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Dang man Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Dang man Posted by: HeroesAll
» Panama's American community Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Josh, I Got A Question Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Josh, I Got A Question Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: Josh, I Got A Question Posted by: fifthworld
Distraction from Iraq Mess
Posted by: lessbread on Sep 22, 2006 1:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dems got played double. They got played per the article - this story is essentially a repeat of last Decembers McCain torture ban tango (just wait for Bush's signing statement) - but they also got played in that this flap distracted attention from the civil war in Iraq, an issue that loses the GOP support in the run up to the elections.

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whooliebacon
Posted by: whooliebacon on Sep 22, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain's pants are really on fire this time. Neo Con ='s liar.

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Democrats Sit Out Detainee Debate
Posted by: rwa on Sep 22, 2006 1:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(09-21) 05:33 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --

Congressional Democrats are sitting out an explosive debate on how to treat the nation's most dangerous terrorism suspects, bypassing a chance to challenge President Bush on a proposal that has infuriated international law experts and human rights groups.

The reasons are fraught with politics: They don't have to join in, and they could regret it if they did.

With November elections for control of Congress just weeks away, Democrats are letting a handful of Republican senators battle the Bush administration over the legal fine points of the White House detainee plan in hopes the GOP will bloody itself on the top-tier issue of security.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Wednesday that Democrats were "on the sidelines watching the catfights" among Republicans on terrorism legislation. He said they had little choice until the GOP settled on its position.

Democrats may attempt to amend the detainee legislation should it reach the floor of the House or Senate, and they say they will defend their record on national security. But it is unlikely party leaders will make much noise this election season to ensure terror suspects are afforded legal rights...

Once Democrats do weigh in, their strategy is to show there is no daylight between the two parties on fighting terrorism, Democrats say.

One result of the political maneuvering is that at least one major issue has been omitted from congressional debate. The president's proposal would allow suspects to be held indefinitely without "habeas corpus," the right to protest one's detention in court.

Under the president's plan and agreed to by McCain and other GOP senators, only detainees selected by the Pentagon for prosecution are granted legal counsel and a day in court.

"If this legislation passes, people like Khaled Sheik Mohammed will get a full trial, while hundreds of detainees who are not charged with any crime will be denied even a hearing to test whether there is any basis to hold them," said Joshua Colangelo-Bryan, a human rights lawyer.

"This is truly a bizarre result considering that ... the military does not even accuse a majority of the detainees of any involvement in violence," Colangelo-Bryan said...

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filibuster
Posted by: lb on Sep 22, 2006 5:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Frist threatened to filibuster if he didn't get his way. Why can't the Dems filibuster?

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» RE: filibuster Posted by: brad
the devil is in the house!
Posted by: saywhat? on Sep 22, 2006 7:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
somebody put a mouse trap on that teflon pan! oy

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Help! I'm being tortured!
Posted by: kablooie on Sep 22, 2006 7:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration is sheer torture -- and I ought to know, I suffered thru The Clinton Years during his governorship of Arkansas, and etc.

Equal opportunity misanthropism applies to all politicians.

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contradictions of the compromise
Posted by: brad on Sep 23, 2006 5:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The NYT this morning has a good analysis of the "compromise". See it linked text

It quotes many sources who say all that was accomplished is that they agreed to claim that they had a compromise, while the issues were not resolved and many of what Bush wanted stands.

The big question now is do Dems oppose it knowing they will not defeat it and that the Repubs will call them terrorist appeasers, or do they roll over and we get to watch our country slip further from its ideals?

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anthny
Posted by: tap on Sep 23, 2006 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read that McCain was a trusty when in prison in North Viet Nam, most likly he was never tortured because he gave up and ratted on his fellow airmen.
My reasoning is he is AMORAL and has no ethics if he could let this bill go forward.
The McCain I remember is during the primery election of 2000 when he was on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbart was interviewing him, McCain was dumb as a sack a stones, he had no idea that he was being taken by the guys on the bus.
Later he was thrown under the bus by the Bush kingpin Karl Rove and here again did not have a clue. I call McCain the MANCHURIAN Candidate. If anything this guy was brain dead after being in North Viet Nam POW camp from smoking to much Opiuim or given to many truth drugs to make him talk.
Anyway there goes some more of our freedoms and the world is less safe because of this regime. Lets all pray for the end of the world like the born again christains do and have done for centuries waiting for the end that never comes.
GOD BLESSED AMERICA

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mdruss42
Posted by: mdruss42 on Sep 23, 2006 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have asked on several other sites and am going to some of the right wing sites to ask the same thing.
HOW IS THIS TO PLAY OUT.
WHOSE SONS AND DAUGHTERS ARE TO APPLY THIS LEGAL TORTURE.
ARE WE TO HAVE UNIVERSITY DEGREES, SCHOLARSHIPS.
HOW DOES ONE GET SELECTED FOR ONE OF THESE SCHOLARSHIPS.

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» RE: mdruss42 Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: mdruss42 Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: mdruss42 Posted by: Joshua Holland
» And then of course Posted by: fifthworld
» And then of course Posted by: fifthworld
It's done by degrees
Posted by: RBurgess on Sep 23, 2006 1:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"- including through the use of techniques long considered to be torture by human right groups -"

I've noticed this, that torture is being defined down, the frame that is infiltrating here is- that only those bleeding heart activists would call the 'techniques' torture, (remember when it was called abuse?). I know Joshua Holland isn't doing this here, he is making the point that it is torture, but I have seen this same phrasing used to ghetto-ise people who are against torture.
That this debate is happening is a VERY ominous sign, from a stolen election in 2000, two wars of aggression, free speech zones, rallies only for the approved, enemy combatants outisde of all law, black sites, gitmo, voting controlled by partisan secretaries of state and corporations, NSA warrantless spying, to codifying torture in law barely six years later. A great-uncle of mine was swiss, he fled to England as the Nazi's rose, when he died I was helping to clear his house, I found Berlin Diaries by William L. Shirer amongst his few books. I would recommend that it as a prescient warning from history, go read it now, the clock is ticking.

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Typical McCain
Posted by: ng1944 on Sep 25, 2006 7:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is typical McCain,
bootlicker and Judas

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That's why totalitarianism works so well.
Posted by: vescalant on Sep 25, 2006 2:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fighting terrorism or communism or whatever enemy you choose is the best way to establish a totalitarian regime. If Dems oppose torture, they are being soft on terrorism and if they support it, they are selling their souls to the Devil. It is an assured no win situation for the opposition. A fine way to coopt opponents to the government, and force dissenters into accepting the government's point of view. That's why communism managed to survive so many years in the Soviet Union and its allies: they were fighting against a capitalist enemy bent on destroying them and had to impose a totalitarian regime to survive. Now it is America the one who has to prevail over terrorism and rogue states, and as long as the perceived threat, real or imagined, exists in the public mind, the totalitarian American state will survive.

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