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Better to have sex with boys than girls?

Posted by Evan Derkacz at 9:34 AM on December 12, 2005.


'Cause boys like it.
18-hansel
Hansel and Gretel hold hands as they enter the unknown forest.

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Are we too prudish about woman/boy sex?

Kate Zernike's Ideas & Trends piece in the Times poses the possibility that while it may not be all that savory for adult women to have sex with teenage boys it shouldn't be illegal -- or rather that we should re-examine the age of consent.

Fine, I'm all for that, and it's a refreshingly uncomfortable piece (with curiously fake-sounding names: Dr. Shakeshaft? Dr. Finkelhor? Are you kidding? Am I too immature for sex?)..

But why just woman/boy sex? Why is it only okay to broach the subject when the genders are arranged thus (and just forget about gay and lesbian age gaps...)?

When it comes to consensual sex of differing ages the variables and attitudes splinter off into a thousand pieces. I won't speak to all of them, obviously, but the whole concept of "consent" breaks down as you roll the biological/cultural clock backward. Few would argue that a "yes" from a 5-year-old carries much weight in the sexual arena, while a 13-year-old's "yes" is debatable. After all, it wasn't too long ago that 13-year-olds regularly married -- even the concept of a "teenager" is relatively new.

Granted, married 13-year-olds were nearly always women and nearly always married to older men -- sometimes much older. But I'm not arguing for a return to this social norm, far from it. I'm merely questioning why the discussion of "consent" in this context is confined to the woman/boy configuration...

If I may make a few statements that risk revealing too much...

When I was a teenager I was terrified and giddy about sex. To my friends, I appeared as giddy and excited as they did, though no doubt they were as terrified as I was. Terrified about what it meant, how well we'd do, what it would feel like. You know, everything.

We were supposed to want it. We were teenage boys. Movies, books, jokes (Q: what does Adidas stand for? A: All day I dream about sex...), and not least of all our bodies told us this was so.

Messages to the girls, I suspect, were chiefly about waiting until someone pledged something to them. Love or some nascent form of it. Going steady, whatever. But it wasn't something they were meant to crave, meant to feel in their unmentionable parts.

Why go here? Because this debate over whether adult women should or shouldn't have sex with teenage boys surrounds the obvious fact that teenage boys dream about sex. That they want it. That's why they're not "harmed," as the article says.

But why isn't the same question being asked about adult men sleeping with teenage girls? Don't they "want it" just as badly? Isn't this ostensible urge to "protect" girls actually just another effort to remove agency from maturing girls, to retain some Puritanical notion of female sexuality?

In fact, we're constantly told that girls mature faster than boys, physically and emotionally. So why the taboo?

I suspect we just don't want to believe that girls of a certain age could or would consent and G-d forbid enjoy it. And emerge unharmed. By the same token, I think we're just as reluctant to believe that the mythic red-blooded American boy may not be ready for sex. May be harmed by it.

An honest discussion about the age of consent, with the great variations in human sexual development, shifting cultural norms and unexamined biases is going to take some serious work. But it could be fun.

Digg!

Evan Derkacz is a New York-based writer and contributor to AlterNet.


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modern society
Posted by: liberalibrarian on Dec 12, 2005 10:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First--Dr. Finkelhor is an expert in the field of incest/sexual abuse and sexuality.
I think that age of consent laws should stand at 16 for both sexes. Teenagers need to be free to focus on school, life goals and other things they need in this society. (we are not in the Middle Ages although I often think we are in the Dark...) Teenage sex education, however, needs to be opened up to include much more than the ludicrous "abstenence". OK--teenagers are likely going to have sex with other teenagers. But a teenager of either sex is no match for a mature adult's experience, persuasiveness, money, whatever.

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» RE: modern society Posted by: Evan Derkacz
» RE: modern society Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: modern society Posted by: mazur
» RE: modern society Posted by: kissmypineapple
» RE: modern society Posted by: Evan Derkacz
» RE: "preyed upon" Posted by: mazur
» RE: modern society Posted by: gmknobl
» RE: modern society Posted by: gmknobl
» RE: modern society Posted by: anthony poe
from my experience...
Posted by: wearesilhouettes on Dec 13, 2005 6:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a very interesting article, and I can relate to in in many ways, I think. I could be a good role model/teacher about this subject because I have first hand experience. I am a relatively young woman who, during her teenage years,(16) had a secret (only because of taboos) relationship with a 37 yr old man. He was my friend, someone I knew through my family for years, and he was not taking advantage of me; however, a question I often think of is how could an older man resist a young nubile woman when the chance presents itself? This is probably where the pedofilia comes in, but I honestly beleive in some cases it can be sincere affection. I guess I would advise for any younger person to not get involved with an older stranger, for obvious reasons. Anyway, I was more mature than my other friends in highschool, and had a steady relationship before that, which I guess prepared me mentally and emotionally for "man-x". It only ended because we hated the secrecy, and it was impossible - no one would be able to deal with it because of our age difference. Of course, I went back to dating boys my age, even though they were irresponsible and all they wanted was sex. SO, I guess my point is, I think it should be the other way around - younger girls with men - only because they mature faster (yes, I think so) and can probably make responsible decisions about the relationship. It would be a rare occurance if it happened out in the open anyway, because most young girls really don't find 40 yr olds attractive, on the whole. If older women pursue younger boys, I think that situation is more prone to becoming something of a controlling situation because it would only be centered around sex (I don't know what kind of older woman would be interested in talking about highschool matters). And, older men could take control of the girls, so it can be either way. I think you can really judge only by a "case by case" basis. But, I think the cutoff age should really be 15...I think if the person is younger than that it could have psychological implications...just a thought (what is the average age of puberty these days anyway?). In the end, I agree with the other poster in that this subject will never see the light of day in any midly conservative household. It's just too taboo and too titallatingly erotic to discuss in American culture.

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» RE: from my experience... Posted by: Evan Derkacz
end the hysteria
Posted by: schnoggi on Dec 13, 2005 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
curious people will consider any viewpoint, and I actually read some interesting things on NAMBLA's website of all places, that ring quite true. The main tool of powermongers if fear, especially to the point of hysteria. You don't gain power by peddling grey areas, you gain it by finding things that you can sell as utterly black and white. And as is also typical, the extent to which you manufacture hysteria about one topic is often a giveaway for what you're trying to get away with behind the smokescreen. Liberals have to be careful not to be so oppressive in their protectivism that they really aren't much better than the mindless faux-puritans on the right. If we made far more effort to teach people about the dynamics of power, and the implications of deceit, then maybe much of the predatory behavior we want high (and arbitrary) age of consent laws to prevent would be less prevalent. But then people's bullshit detectors might actually work, which is hardly something powermongers want the education system to accomplish. As it stands, the anti-pedophilia laws in this country are well into the area of thought policing; supposedly if you express the intent to travel to a country with lower age of consent laws for purposes of underage sex, you can be jailed. this is absurd, and it's just the sort of creeping insidious erosion of rights that you want very much to be vigilant against.
I think the puritanism in this country is largely a farce; "they" want to retain the power of sex to help sell things in boxes, so of course they want to keep strumming it as a dangerous source of power that only qualified priests are allowed to administer (where have we heard that crap before: everywhere, Drug War for example), keep shouting its evils out the front door to keep the price at the back door nice and high.
Repression leads to uncontrolled outbursts. Admitting that we are mostly horndogs by nature and coming up with ways to integrate that into a healthy society, well it's no guarantee, but ultimately there isn't much other choice.

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Where were those older women...
Posted by: truthteller on Dec 13, 2005 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when I was a teenager. I don't think for most teenage boys that losing their viginiity to an older woman would be an emotionally scarring experience. When you're a 14 or 15 year old guy the thing that occupies most of your random (and not so random) thoughts is "getting laid". Learning about sex from someone older, more experienced, and with a safe, private place to do it would be better than trying to bully your same-age girlfriend into it in the backseat of a car. You often see things in movies or on TV about Uncle so and so buying his nephew a hooker for his 16th birthday. There's been a long history of that sort of thing in our media, if not in reality.

Really, the most eggregious thing Mary Kay Latuerno (sp?) did was getting pregnant by her young lover. It is irresponsible to put a teenager in that position, and she could have prevented it. My first reaction to hearing about her (and Bill Maher's as well) was "she's a patron saint to horny teenage boys everywhere". And in talking to male co-workers and other friends, I think there just might be a concensus to that opinion.

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It's religion that binds us
Posted by: popsicle67 on Dec 13, 2005 12:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is the false comfort of religion and the people who need it that makes any sex taboo. what happened to people 10 thousand years ago or more when they had younger-older relationships going. I doubt they went to hell because it hadn't
been invented yet. All of this control adds up to one thing, money, if we take away the sin we take the churches money.
Now to be sure there are clear-cut instances where much wrong can be done and pain and suffering can result but we have a proven way of dealing with perverts that seek to injure
or dominate,DEATH, just liquidate all those who force themselves upon the innocent. No recidivism, No lengthy reeducation, No chance taken. I know this is a harsh solution but finding a so-called higher power doesn't stop the madness.

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Dreaming and the Brick Wall
Posted by: saretto on Dec 14, 2005 9:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For me, growing up we always look for the older girls. They had more "experience" and were more "developed". Our society is very much a puritanical society. In Europe a naked blonde walking down the street will most likely not have a crowd of whistling men drooling and following her. That, I feel, is because we treat sex very immaturely in this country. We hide it, we whisper about it, it's still dirty and somewhat verboten. We have a tremendous epidemic, it seems, with internet porn addiction among males 25-45. Why is that?? Why do they feel the need to hide it.
With regard to the age of consent, our country thrives on walking that line of the younger woman, whilst demanding and affirming silently that she is eighteen when in our minds she is 16-17. Just over that tender fleshold of the forbbideen. "American Beauty", "Lolita", "The Crush", "Poison Ivy", etc. There is a push in our society to make it acceptable the dynamic of Older Man-Young girl. The other way it is exciting for males.
In ancient Rome, people had young lovers. I have always wondered how they faired psychologically since it was socially acceptable. It was not an issue. In the Elizabethan era people married at 14 because they only lived to 30. This was acceptable.
The laws about people travelling to other countries to have sex with children is American policing it's citizens and that is good. But when we criticize other countries we are falling into our reviled role of "World Police". When we were criticing Amsterdam for its sex and drug laws I laughed.
What will happen when there are no more places to hide your sin?? When we have no outlet for our animal and dark sides?? We will burst, we will pop. Everyone needs to be naughty. So long as you hurt no one else I don't care.

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