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It's Still Rape: A Much Needed Dose Of Sanity On Roman Polanski

Posted by Little Light, Feministe at 4:00 PM on September 28, 2009.


The message right now seems to be: If you have enough money, talent, and celebrity friends, you should just be left alone to rape underage girls and get away with it.
romanpolanski

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Dear newsmedia, Facebook page, friends, and assorted coworkers:

I have a little quiz for you! I know you like quizzes. But first!

A trigger warning for discussion of rape.

Let's say a 44-year-old man invites a 13-year-old girl over to his house. First it's so that he can take pictures of her -- "modeling." Then, even though she says she's uncomfortable and he made her feel unsafe, he convinces her mother to send her over for a second session, where he plies her with champagne and, allegedly, drugs her with Quaadludes and, over her protests and begging, performs multiple sex acts on her.

Do we agree that this is rape?

Let's say he’s charged with that rape, among other charges, but to avoid standing trial he jumps bail and flees the country.

Still unconvinced?

Let's say right after he gets to another country, he begins a public and supposedly-consensual relationship with a different fifteen-year-old girl, one who had stated before that she was feeling exploited in the industry in which both of them worked.

This is looking pretty solid, right? But what if there are mitigating circumstances?

What if it's been thirty years since the crime, and the now-grown woman who made the original accusation has asked that charges be dropped, because she knows her perpetrator will never face consequences or stand trial and she can't take another round of the trauma of being known the world over as that 13-year-old the famous guy raped, especially now that she has a husband and kids? Still rape?

Let's say he said he thought the 13-year-old was 18. Still rape?

Let's say he said she asked for it. Are you convinced?

Let's say he’s rich and influential and popular and has a lot of wealthy, influential friends, and shortly after he flees the country, the 13-year-old changes her story and asks that he be left alone. Still rape?

What if he had a really, really hard life -- war, loss, murdered loved ones. Still rape?

What if he's a genius, a virtuoso artist with many fans -- still rape?

What if he's really sorry? He's been punished a great deal already, after all. In the thirty years since fleeing the U.S., the guy has been forced to stay out of the country and live in comfort in his country of birth instead, where he is ostracized and blacklisted by the film industry in which he works -- and so is everyone who dares to work with him, including pilloried, hard-up, blacklisted actors like Jack Nicholson, Harrison Ford, Johnny Depp, Ewan McGregor, and Adrien Brody? In fact -- let's throw this in -- he was so dishonored and shunned by his colleagues he had to have a friend collect his Academy Award for him.

Still rape?

So are you upset that this man has been arrested and may finally stand trial?

Then why are you upset when that man is Roman Polanski?

But, I've heard from plenty of places, isn't there a statute of limitations for this kind of thing? Well, if there were, he wouldn't have been arrested. Alternate answer: if she were you -- or, if you can't go there, your little sister -- what are your feelings on that statute of limitations? At what point do we just say, hey, it was just child rape, can't we drop it?

But, can’t we just drop a mere statutory rape charge after thirty years? You mean because the other charges were dropped on a plea-bargain, drugging a girl and having sex with her stops counting as a flat-out rape no matter what her age?

But, she's grown-up now, can’t we just drop it? She wasn't then. And if she were, it would still be rape.

Isn't this just stuffy Americans judging a brilliant man on sexual peccadilloes like they always do, because Americans can't handle sex as a culture? Yes. Absolutely. The rest of the world thinks raping kids is a-okay, whoops, our bad, we're just too uptight about drugging people and forcing sex on them. You know us Americans. We're always up in arms about sexual assault this, consent that.

But he's an old man now. Yes, and due to the Oldness Exception Act of 1967, old people are no longer accountable for felonies and shouldn't face consequences for doing things that are wrong.

But he’s really talented, and I really like his movies. That's. Nice.

But we don't know all the facts!

That's what a trial is for.

If you believe arresting people and making them stand trial is worth anything, why the objection? Why the international outcry and circulation of petitions and raging French government officials?

Because seriously, the message I'm hearing is, if you have enough money and celebrity friends, if you're talented enough, if you're charming enough, everyone thinks that you should just be left alone to rape underage girls and how dare anyone call you on it or even suggest that you have to stand trial like anyone else. And the same news media that pruriently reports the horrible details of similar crimes done by non-famous people will back you up on it.

This, my friends, is what a rape culture looks like.

Digg!

Tagged as: rape, roman polanski, statuatory rape


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Right on
Posted by: deejayvee on Sep 28, 2009 4:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't beleive that anybody is trying to defend this asshole.

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» RE: ight on Posted by: News Nag
» France's CORRUPT Justice System Posted by: Prairie Waif
» BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM Posted by: BankingOnHeaven
Here's a quiz for you
Posted by: sliver on Sep 28, 2009 7:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How often is someone extradited from Switzerland on a Los Angeles warrant? I would guess not often.

So the reason people object to the deal is because they are making an example out of Polanski only because he is famous.

In my own opinion, the creep is clearly guilty of a horrid crime, so I have no problem with making an example of him.

But I do have a problem with making a big deal about this case when there are many criminals running around free. Right there in Switzerland, how many U.S. corporations and CEOs launder dirty money and avoid paying taxes with their Swiss bank accounts? How many Blackwater killers will be arrested this year for illegal crimes that we are paying them for? Why are Bush and Cheney not arrested for the war crimes of invading a nation for non-defense reasons and then torturing prisoners? If international justice really had any guts, they would send Polanski back with a planeload full of criminals.

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» RE: Here's a quiz for you Posted by: News Nag
» RE: Here's a quiz for you Posted by: EKSwitaj
» RE: Here's a quiz for you Posted by: Seranvali
roy12le
Posted by: le12roy on Sep 28, 2009 7:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that " Little Light" has some obligation to use her real name if she's going to issue such a strong opinoin.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Her real name. Posted by: NickJones
» RE: roy12le Posted by: News Nag
What if....
Posted by: cats.anon on Sep 28, 2009 8:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What if we were talking about a priest who had a history of raping young boys, who are now grown up. Just forget it?


I didn't think so........

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What if.... Posted by: NickJones
» RE: What if.... Posted by: Wacre
» RE: What if.... Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: What if.... Posted by: Wacre
I am on the side of the victim in this case. Everyone needs to read what the victim herself has to
Posted by: Comrade Rutherford on Sep 28, 2009 7:57 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am on the side of the victim in this case. Everyone needs to read what the victim herself has to say.
Here is just a sample of her statement:

"I have survived, indeed prevailed, against whatever harm Mr. Polanski may have caused me as a child.

I am surprised and disappointed with the District Attorney, who (1) has refused to cause the dismissal of this case, and (2) has, yet one more time, given great publicity to the lurid details of those events, for all to read, again. True as they may be, the continued publication of those details causes harm to me, my beloved husband, my three children, and my mother. I have become a victim of the actions of the District Attorney. [...]

If Polanski cannot stand before the Court to make this Request, I, as the victim, can and I, as the victim do."


Here is the link to the 5.6MB PDF of her entire brief to the court.

http://reporter.blogs.com/files/polanski.pdf

Hauling Polanski into court serves ONLY one purpose: to traumatize the victim yet again solely for the gain of the district attorney.

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It's probably more a case of
Posted by: ankhet on Sep 28, 2009 8:57 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
scandal fatigue. We're sick of hearing about the old perv after so many years. Fed up with endless revivals of his dalliances and of the "controversy". (to me, there's no controversy. Jail him, finally already.) What's taken so long - in 30 years you couldn't bring this creep in? Obviously, judging by the age of the new pubescent object of his affection, he's learned nothing.

Take care of him, slice, dice, and serve him up, and get him off our horizon.

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» Actually... Posted by: batmagoo
To Comrade Ruthford, you fail to mention
Posted by: drfun on Sep 28, 2009 9:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that the victim already settled with Polanski for a substantial sum of $'s.

It's not about the victim re-living her trauma, it's about a pedophile who ran away from his crime and has not served his time to society for his vile offense.

Talented or not, if Polanski walks free it only proves there are two kinds of justice, one for the well connected and the other for the rest of us.

If Polanski had not been a coward and run away from his crime, he would have already paid his debt to society and not worry about being extradited.

Now he should have to do the time for the crime plus extra for being a fugitive.

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let's have the facts before letting off hot air
Posted by: realthog on Sep 29, 2009 3:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are so many errors of fact in the original article that any debate based on it is worthless. Can't AlterNet find someone else making the same argument as Little Light but with a better connection to the reality of the case?

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So, He Used His Fame & Fortune to Shield Himself from Consequences
Posted by: Carol Burns on Sep 29, 2009 4:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and now his fame & fortune is coming back to bite him in the .... So what? Do the crime; do the time. The victim in this case doesn't want the publicity, and who could blame her? But rape is a capital offense. It's no wonder that Manson and his gang of crazies hated Polanski; he represents the privilege of the uber-rich. But nothing: not talent, not intelligence, not his rough upbringing, NOTHING, absolves him from his crime(s). I wonder how many other children he has forced into demeaning and soul-shattering sexual acts?

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No, morons...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Sep 29, 2009 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is STATUTORY rape. Both he and his now 40 something year old "victim" have said since day one that it was consensual sex.

That is very very different than just plain rape.

But hey... don't let that stand in the way of this circus that wastes time and resources in a nearly bankrupt state which could be better spent pursuing actual rape cases.

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» RE: No, morons... Posted by: Rungle
» two questions for you... Posted by: Rungle
» Wrong Posted by: dudelette
» RE: No, morons... Posted by: TennMom
» RE: No, morons... Posted by: Seranvali
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
Posted by: BankingOnHeaven on Sep 29, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pedophile Polanski should join the FLDS and move to the YFZ Ranch in Texas. Then he could have sex with underage girls and call it religion.

http://www.bankingonheaven.com/

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Making an example?
Posted by: zipper696 on Sep 29, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
clearly this is a piece of grandstanding by both the FBI and the CA prosecutor's office.
There have been countless times Polanski visited and stayed for weeks at his house in Gstaad when he could have been arrested.
As pointed out above it was STATUTORY rape and what has been swept under the carpet here is that it was the "victim's" mother who instigated the initial contact with the party crowd at Jack Nicholson's place. There is little doubt that the mother pimped out her daughter and made sure she looked "old enough" to gain entry to the movers and shakers of Hollywood. I suspect that is a major part of the reason the victim wants the business closed (as well as the large but undiscosed settlement she has already received).
Nicholson's parties were notorious for sexual excesses, free flowing drugs and unlimited supplies of available young women - how young? Nobody bothered to ask. If they were there it meant that they were prepared to "do anything" to get started in the movie business.

Am I an apologist for a rapist? I don't think so. Polanski had been to these orgies many times before and indulged in all the vices available to him, this time he unwittingly committed a crime and when the plea bargain deal worked out was rejected by the judge even though approved by the prosecutor he saw that he was being "made an example of" and blew town.

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» RE: Making an example? Posted by: davmills
» "very obviously been a minor" Posted by: zipper696
» RE: Making an example? Posted by: Seranvali
Thank you!
Posted by: g on Sep 29, 2009 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Were this guy some schmuck from the Boondocks, there would be a public and media lynching. When child rapists are charged, even decades after the fact, people (and journalists) show up with pitchforks. A difficult life is not an excuse to use your power to treat others as objects. People who defend Polanski must have lost their moral compass.

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» Defending Polanski ? Posted by: zipper696
Douglas
Posted by: dwkinney on Sep 29, 2009 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, I question the accuracy of the article.
Second, I suspect there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. I wouldn't be surprised if the "victims" mother encouraged the whole thing.

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» You are spot-on... Posted by: batmagoo
» He Pleaded Guilty Posted by: dudelette
» Oh, please Posted by: dudelette
THIS IS NOT ABOUT US
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 29, 2009 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Polansky has always been perceived as sleazy and he is rich and famous. But I think the one who deserves the most consideration here is the victim. She has stated that 'she's over it'. A trial would drag her into a typical Hollywood type scene and ruin her life. No one has a right to do that. The public can't possibly be that self rightious. It's the need people have for yet another three ring circus. Be patient, in another week we'll have another scandal. The woman should be left alone. ANNA

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» RE: THIS IS NOT ABOUT US Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
No surprise from "Pretty Woman" Hollywood
Posted by: scheherezade on Sep 29, 2009 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No surprise the same Hollywood who presented "Pretty Woman's" street prostitution as glamorous and "fun" is now rallying around a pedophile.

And female celebrities hustling to defend their important and oh-so-talented "men" bear a striking resemblance to the sad Morman polygamist dishrags recently in the public eye. Maybe the two groups can form a clatch and trade domestic advice.

Just another affirmation of how deeply conservative, and grossly unhumanistic, the "creative" film industry really is at its power core.

Polanski's crime was no accident - it was part of an ongoing pattern. He molested 15-year-old Nastassja Kinski shortly thereafter, by her own public admission. His colleagues surely knew.

Film industry hacks who self-identify as "liberals" really need to find another cause.

Most of the industry's "artistic" output is grounded in the sexual -- a topic the industry's shining mediocrities have finally managed to rehash to the point of dullness.

Polanski's criminal activites are symptoms of an industry that had little integrity, artistic or otherwise, to begin with. His personal venality is simply a reflection of a wider "creative" milieu that is, at its core, based in money and deep-seated misogyny.

Don't drop the soap in the shower, Roman.

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France's CORRUPT Justice System
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Sep 29, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ah! The French are easing their collective guilt as being collaborators with the Nazis who slaughtered Roman Polanski's Mother, can you not acknowledge they are seeking to clear some of the horrific outcomes due to trading their WWII collective conscious for continuation of the booze, dancing and delights unavailable to countries with the dignity to refuse to sell their souls?

Now, under Sarkozy, a generous soul, filled with compassion for those who have been wronged, is trying to ease the collective guilt of the populace, and after all, the crime was 30 years ago, can't you see that? *sarcasm*

They have no difficulty besmirching, and destroying, the reputation, and future, of a well respected, University Professor, based solely upon questionable eyewitness testimony (hearsay and inadmissible in USA and Canadian Courts) that it was an Arab, they all look alike you know, whom the eyewitnesses accuse of planting a bomb, in 1980, outside a Synagogue. This was a heinous crime; three Frenchmen and a woman visiting from Israel were killed. Admissible evidence? Justice? Nope, gotta get those AHRABS, the "War on Terror" you know.

Hmm, so it's okay to let a criminal who had accepted a plea bargain in place on his guilt of sexual assault, but not okay to provide justice for/to Hassan Diab, Ph.D.?

The French Justice system is based upon the whims of the Prime Minister. Sarkozy recently demoted the Minister of Justice because she wouldn't disclose who fathered her child; a very attractive woman, Sarkozy's jealousy got in the way of justice and French Justice Minister Rachida Dati was "asked to take another position."

French Justice is a *Good Old Boys* Clubhouse and Ms. Dati got in the way of the Salon of Nicholas and was removed from her position as Minister of Justice.

Sarkozy says it wasn't about Gender or race (Ms. Dati is of Moroccan heritage). If it isn't about either, then why is it okay that the gender and racial background be mitigating circumstance upon which the argument for the freedom of Roman Polanski is based?

France has a duality (and more) of it's corrupt justice system. It persecutes the innocent and rewards the guilty.

Justice from Sarkozy's France? Hardly.

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Say an auto mechanic rapes a 13 year old girl
Posted by: billwald on Sep 29, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and 50 years later he has not been charged with any new sexual offenses. Can we not say he has been rehabilitated?

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» No Posted by: jcalhoun
I think everyone has missed a few facts
Posted by: clvngodess on Sep 29, 2009 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I post this as a childhood rape victim, myself. Mine was brutal, as in violent. It wasn't an attempt at seduction, as this case indicates.

In reading an article posted by the actual victim (who is now an adult with kids of her own, a life of her own, that continually gets ripped apart and old wounds reopened, only to continue the victimization) Polanski did time in jail, was tried, a conviction was negotiated with the judge (time served, extensive fines, and extensive probation), who then changed the sentence, a surprise to both sides of the trial.

When the agreed upon deal was switched at the last minute by the judge, Mr. Polanski was suddenly facing 50 years prison time, instead of the mutually agreed upon sentence. It was at this time, that he fled.

You can read the victim's take on all this here:
http://reporter.blogs.com/files/polanski.pdf

Here:
http://digg.com/d315mho

I'm not in defense of Mr. Polanski, I'm defending the wishes of the victim. How many times must she relive groundhog day? And what is our sick fascination with this man and his appetite for young women?

At some point we need to look toward the women and girls who are abused daily and have no voice. This is where we must focus our energy. Not on the sensationalization of one man, one judge, and one victim.

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Deb
Posted by: debmcd on Sep 29, 2009 10:01 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't condone rape at all, but I remember this extremely well and you should probably read up on the entire event before you start writing about something. He didn't jump bail to keep from going to trial. I can't believe this is even being persued. Even the so called victim said enough is enough.

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» "So Called" victim? Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
There is one item missing in this indictment...
Posted by: djnoll on Sep 29, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the reason Polanski left the country. In previous reports on this matter over the last 30 or so years, it is clear that it was not trying to avoid taking responsibility for the crime. He was willing to plead guilty - a plea bargain had been worked out and financial restitution to the girl was negotiated as part of a civil trial. He left because the judge was going to throw out the plea bargain, not let him change his plea, and sentence him in a manner that abridged his rights to a fair trial. Any of this sound familiar? It happens everyday in this country, only not to the rich and famous.

Polanski admits to doing the things with which he was charged and he agreed to criminal punishment in keeping with the plea agreement - which I will admit as a woman, mother, and grandmother, I found far too lenient - but I find it even more horrifying that he negotiated an agreement that was acceptable to the prosecutor's office, the girl and her family, and to him, only to have a judge decide he should be made an example of in breach of his civil rights.

If the author wants to present a case for rape, fine. It was rape, even Polanski agreed with that 30 years ago. In almost any venue in the world including the United States, rape has a statute of limitations attached to it, except where the victim is murdered. This statute expired a long time ago, and the victim herself does not want this made into a public circus again that could damage her marriage and her children. For the City of Los Angeles to proceed at this point in time is expensive and pointless except for publicity for some self-righteous prosecutor.

Polanski fled this country instead of being deported after serving a criminal term, which was part of what the judge wanted anyway. Yes, he has had a successful life, but I suspect that the victim is not concerned with that. I suspect she is concerned with not having to see her family drug through the filth that this nation's media will inflict on them to make a point about Polanski and her.

It is time to put this one to rest, and say that one got away. And maybe the next time some judge decides to make an example of someone, he will make good and sure that he cannot flee the country!

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I am old enough to remember this case...
Posted by: olderworker on Sep 29, 2009 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I remember my parents explaining that it was just because the girl was only 13 that Polanski had been charged (statutory rape, in other words). But having recently read more details, I was HORRIFIED that the French police did not send him back to the U.S. for trial.

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Polanski is creepy
Posted by: free2disagree on Sep 29, 2009 4:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No drugged and drunk 13 year old can give consent for sex, whether her mother was in the building or not. Yeah, I am just so sure that a 13 year old's dream first time is to have anal sex forced on her by a 44 year old she has only met twice.

This woman was failed by her parents, by Polanski, by the press, by the courts, and by the dominant culture over and over. It is a testament to her personal inner strength that she went on with her life, got married and had children despite this unfinished horror lurking in the background.

While I appreciate that she does not want it to get dredged up once again, given the sensationalistic way it is portrayed, Polanski must still be held accountable, however late, for any kind of justice to occur, and to keep him away from other girls, since most predators have many more victims than just the ones for which they are caught.

If he were not a famous influential director with rich and powerful friends, he would have gone to prison. He got to go off and make movies in Europe, while she had to heal alone and without closure.

It also does not make it OK for him to rape children because he lived through the Holocaust and his mother died in Auschwitz, or because his pregnant wife and friends were killed by the Manson family. That might help to explain why he is so messed up about women, but it does not excuse wrong behavior.

It makes Rosemary's Baby an even more creepy movie when you see how Polanski's real sex life is metaphorically mirrored in the plot. Just trade out a pimp mother for a pimp husband. Sacrifice the innocent. Yeah, I'm sure she wanted it too.

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To Those Who Argue Otherwise
Posted by: mallamv on Sep 29, 2009 5:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't believe there is any discussion over what should happen to this child rapist. I can't believe the sob sisters who worry about what may become of him. When it comes to child molesters, all bets, all sympathy, all compassion, all understanding is as nothing next to the crime. Even criminals have a code that defines what a child molester left in a general lockup can expect. By the way, there are no extenuating circumstances when an adult first terrorizes than assaults a child. And when did "genius" --even loosely used to designate talent--become synonymous with "anything goes" morality. I don't give a fuck if Nicholson had parties and everyone bung holed everyone else--unless there were children involved. The participant above who questioned, if only rhetorically, if he was taking the rapist's side because Polansky was just another hedonist caught up in a hedonistic culture, and...well, that's why, and let's all go home and leave the pervert to his own devices --rethink your values, my friend, and find new role models. Jesus!

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does anybody KNOW what the victim is saying?
Posted by: Bearzerker on Sep 30, 2009 3:19 AM   
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thats what i would like to know...
if the woman says she was raped then we need to deal with this...

myself, i dont trust anything i hear or read until the full story comes out...
saves alot of BS from piling up

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It's good to see some sanity in the bullshit
Posted by: DaBear on Sep 30, 2009 9:05 AM   
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Little Light has got some serious fact-checking problems. Thankfully the more erudite Alternetters have caught them for "her" (I don't know the gender of Little Light, so I'm guessing).

The best quote I've seen as yet is from Luc Besson: "I do not know the history of the process. (...) I feel a lot of affection for [Polanski], he's a man I really like and I know him a bit, our daughters are very good friends but there is a justice, [and] it is the same for everyone."

Compare that sanity to the hysteria-riddled British writer Joan Smith who said "Now the past has caught up with him, and Polanski is facing extradition and the prison sentence he deserves. His supporters urgently need to locate their moral compass and stop making excuses for an unrepentant sex attacker." [Italics mine] "sex attacker" doesn't actually fit the facts. It does fit Smith's willowy emotions and self-projectionism, and therein lies the crux of the problem in this whole affair: is it possible to observe and evaluate a situation in a lucid manner if one's emotional maturity is non-existent or severely challenged? I'm gonna guess it's not really possible.

There are far too many hystericals spewing off about the "sick old man" and the "innocent 15 year old" (Natassja Kinski) and the presumed and factually incorrect details underlying the man's flight from the US in the first place, all of which merely serves to cloud a rational look at what happened with the 13 year old he admitted to drugging and was willing to pay for until the "deal" went south in the eleventh hour. Unfortunately for Feministing, they have a pattern of hysteria-fomenting that's as rich and dense as their more lucid moments. I chalk that up to youth and activist wiring. Shit happens. For some people whatever makes them personally feel icky turns into broad brushes and cries for "off with his [old] head!" That kind of idiocy needs to be shuttled already. It's the 21st century but 'Merkaaners are stuck in the 18th. Such a clusterfuck.

The good thing is that this raises all the whackos' issues and we can get them out in the open and maybe have a decent conversation about it all. Oh wait, this is 'Merkuh, conversations aren't possible.

Okay, so, nevermind.

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Poet and Novelist
Posted by: rocksandwords@yahoo.com on Sep 30, 2009 10:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rape here is an unimaginative word and an imprecise one. Where feelings run hot, people seldom want precision or clarity, certainly not a "mot juste". First, I believe this young woman was nubile; nubile is a very precise word, meaning mariageable, or sexually attractive or mature. Physiologically, most of us do mature sexually about twelve or thirteen, women one to two yeasrs ahead of men. It sems they had consensual sex. Yes he was older, he was the seducer. She was seduced not raped. The judge recognized that and let Mr. Polanski plead guilty to one count of sex with a minor. When Polanski became aware the judge would renege on a plea bargain worked out by his attorney he fled the country. In Hollywood the nubile young women mature early and don't wait for the legal age to start having sex. An LA policeman, a sergeant, in Hollywood division, had consensual sex with a fifteen year old in his Law Enforcement Explorer Post about this same time, seved no jail time, was reduced in rank, and forfeited a month's pay. Hollywood High School hires only married teachers for these same reasons. Polanski has become an artist instead of just a filmmaker. Certainly his lapse of judgment has haunted him all these years. Justice, to be justice, must be compassionate. If the young woman who shared this experience with him can forgive him, why can't you and the others who look to Alternet Peek for a little enlightenment. Whoopi Goldberg is not condoning his act; she like I am looking for some sense of proportion in the law. Just as one state can not extradite you for parking warrants in another state, neither should any foreign country extradite to the largest police state on the planet for this minor offense. So many of you who read this are not even aware of how serious a police state you are living in. Wake up. There is yet time.

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» RE: Poet and Novelist Posted by: hmass
vladdie
Posted by: Vlad the impaler on Sep 30, 2009 12:52 PM   
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I am not defending Polanski's behavior but at what public expense does tracking him down, extraditing him, and trying him come at? If he was some ordinary Joe, and not a celebrity would any prosecutors be chasing him in Europe? We've got a lot of serious crimes that cops are often too dis-interested in solving, yet Roman Polanski must be brought to trial?

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Just the facts... you decide
Posted by: hmass on Sep 30, 2009 2:10 PM   
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I think a lot of people supporting Polanski don't realize what actually occured. Roman Polanski coaxed a young 13 year old girl with drugs (GHB I believe), champagne, and forcibly had sex with her. Here are some facts for you:

1.) He knew she was underaged because he had to ask her parents for permission to take photos.

2.) He drugged her with the GHB date-rape drug.

3.) He gave her champagne

4.) On many occasions she said "No - I don't want to do this", or "No I want to go home".

5.) He performed oral sex, anal penetration, and vaginal penetration

6.) After the rape, she testified crying in the car.

7.) Polanski was charged with Rape, but plead guilty with and got a lesser charge of Statutory-rape.

8.) He settled for and undisclosed sum with the victim on a civil lawsuit.

9.) Whoopi Goldberg is a collosal idiot.

Follow the link and you will see the official testimony of the girl. Read the whole thing and then decide if you still want to support him.

I think a lot of people were under the impression that he didn't know her age, it was consensual, it wasn't a big deal, it was "technical" rape, etc...

Rape Victim Testimony

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Absolutely!
Posted by: Seranvali on Sep 30, 2009 9:45 PM   
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I don't see how drugging a thirteen year old and having sex with her is not rape.

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POLANSKI = LIBERAL "VALUES"
Posted by: reelman on Oct 1, 2009 6:07 PM   
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POLANSKI = LIBERAL “VALUES”

Okay, you read that long ago a big time Hollyweirdo Roman Polanski did a bad thing…
now you hear some Hollyweirds are rallying to his “defense”…to HIS DEFENSE.

What did this Polanski do?
He gave a 13 year old girl a Lude and champagne.
He raped the 13 year old girl
He sodomized the 13 year old girl

Then what happened?
He was arrested and convicted after pleading of a FELONY (sex with a minor).
He jumped bail 30 years ago.
He recently made statements defending/excusing his felony!

Now tell us silly basic morality folks why this man is being defended?
(Oh, I forgot, the modern liberal (aka democrat) is a fantasy-based creature whose religion is SECULAR socialism)

What does this also tell you about those Hollyweird “feminist” champions?

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

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» RE: POLANSKI = LIBERAL "VALUES" Posted by: Vlad the impaler
Here is a link to the victims original transcript from the rape trial
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Oct 2, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As you read this try to bear in mind that she was only 13. If you still believe he should be aquitted after reading it then you may have issues yourself.

Splice the two together for link (60 character allowance)


http://geekslovesex.com/roman-polanski-underage-rape-trial

-transcript-original-documents

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So how long do we go on "raping" the victim?
Posted by: clvngodess on Oct 2, 2009 2:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How long?

Each and every time this douchebag ends up in a media frenzy, no one gives shit about the victim, who would like to move past this crap.

And every time this douchebag ends up in the media, her life, her well-being is victimized by all of us going over the gory details of how this douchebag sodomized her.

It's HER request that we put this to rest. But NO! We obsess over this and refuse to allow HER to get on with living.

We are all the rapists in this instance.

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How come nobody mentions statute of limitations?
Posted by: leerhok on Oct 3, 2009 3:54 AM   
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Simply because everybody has accepted as a defensible fact the US treats crime like authoritarian nations (China, Burma, Iran, Saudi, etc) and not like most western liberal democracies?

Capital punishment, long and hard/cruel sentences and deficiencies in statute of limitations are examples the US does not look (up) to Europe, but to China and muslim countries in this respect.

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