;)

jdfu!

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only the unthinking will be considered 'patriots'

my kingdom is no part of this world pfft! jesus must be rolling over in his grave.

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I am quite frankly SHOCKED that a Democratic representative at any level and from any part of the US would conduct themselves this way.

Telling a citizen to "get out of that seat" is unacceptable. Each and every citizen who appears before a committee deserves to have his or her voice heard. Just because this particular citizen holds a different religious belief does not justify how he was treated.

Rep. Davis should step down IMMEDIATELY. Any and all committee assignments should be pulled. Drop this bigot like a hot potato and replace her with a real Democrat.

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That's... awesome. I think that's my word for it.

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..is that anyone who disagrees with her version of a previously lionized kind of prejudice is either a criminal or insane, or maybe both.

She is a religious authoritarian who believes that her views about religion should be made law and enforced by penalties, perhaps stoning?

She probably pretends to dislike the similar craziness of others who like the authoritarian brand of Islam, too.

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Guess whose philosophy is REALLY the dangerous one, Ms Davis.

It is bad enough that religious bigots want to force everyone else to believe as they. But they pass this hatred onto their young, in many cases.

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The believers in the completely unprovable, the invisible undefinable force that they still manage to define, establishing all sorts of attributes depending on the specific religious flavor, suffer their greatest apoplexy in regard to atheists. Wherever there is at least some belief in mumbo jumbo, there is, in their minds, hope; and some commonality. The atheist truly does present a horrifying and threatening reality. It must have been the same for those who did not believe the earth was the center of the universe, scoffed at the idea of witches and demons, or weren't convinced that the world was flat. In those times, these people were the decided minority. And they were occasionally burned alive by the good followers of Jesus.

One would think, however, this paragon of government would at least try to disguise her fear and disgust since it is of a quite unconstitutional stripe. Could this be an example of just how degraded the constitution has become if public officials do not any longer make any attempt to conceal their trampling all over it? Oh, folks, what trouble I am seeing. This land of liberty is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

Who of us did not see the spectacle of the early presidential race when the candidates were falling all over themselves trying to out-god one another? Who among you did not find that frightening? It was almost as bad as the Democrats trying to out-salute the Republicans in 2004 ("John Kerry reporting for duty." The cringe I experienced with that one created a muscle cramp that almost put me in the hospital). Perhaps this time was worse? I didn't cringe, having learned my lesson along those lines, but rather experienced a severe form of nausea, usually reserved for people who lie to little children about Boogie Men, sell two thousand dollar vacuum cleaners in the ghettos of the uneducated poor, as if dust was a major component of these folks' problems, or steal from the local Toys for Tots fund.

The level of disconnect between the American theory and principles of government and our elected representatives and many of our citizens is on a steep rise. Beware, for one day some folks may show up at your front porch and not have any Christian magazines to bother you about; they just may beat you to death with a cross.

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I sent the following email to the legislator in question, at mdavis2147@aol.com:

Ms. Davis:
It has come to my attention that you ordered a man with beliefs about the nature of human existence different than your own to leave his seat while he was testifying before the House State Government Administration Committee in Springfield, Illinois on the basis *of* those beliefs. You also stated, falsely and in contravention of the US Constitution which denies our government the privilege of telling us citizens that we may not petition our government for a redress of grievances, that he had 'no right to be here'.

You have violated the letter and the spirit of the US Constitution which limits and / or denies the ability of the government of which you are part to deny the people the free exercise of their rights. You should be impeached and convicted on that basis.

I demand in the name of the People of the United States of America that you resign from your government post and instead confine your unconscionable statements about those with different beliefs to the pulpit and congregations of the United Church of Christ, if they will allow you to speak out.

I recommend that anyone else horrified by this arrogance take similar action. She has no right to sit in office-- and unlike her, we citizens have the authority to say that anywhere we choose.

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I wonder how religious davis actually is. Does she actually believe in God and his message or does she like giving money to churches for political leverage? I believe if her constituents "loved" God as much as she did they would fund the church themselves without legislative help.
I believe that humans easily forget God for political power and we see that in our politics today. The religious people, instead of voting for the morally sane candidate, they vote for the person who says that they supposedly "talk" to God. That same person is the one who is laughing as thousands of Iraqi civilians are being brutally murdered.

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that what i don't understand about big government lovers. big government means many people like monique will have a significant say in your life. i rather have a crazy neighbor over a crazy judge or politician with powers of life, death, seizure, and incarceration.

thinking government will ever fall into your line of thinking is fantasy...weakening it isn't.

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Here is the email I wrote to Ms. Davis:
Ms Davis:

I have just finished reading the report of your fundamentalist aspersions against Mr. Sherman during his testimony Wednesday afternoon before the Illinois House State Government Administration Committee in Springfield; and I am shocked!

As a citizen of this nation, I hold these truths to be self evident and constitutional; that the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by Congress or the preference of one religion over another, or religion over non-religion.

Your accusations and judgmental language clearly illustrates the limits of your character, and thus your inaptness for public office. I do not appreciate your efforts to disenfranchise and discriminate against atheist and non-religious believers.

Shame, shame, shame on you Ms. Davis, by calling for Mr. Sherman to vacate his seat and to shut up you have crossed that all too well traveled line from public servant to public tyrant. I believe you have shown yourself to be truly un-American.

Sincerely,
Bryan Duggan
Coos Bay, Oregon

Why is our quality of life and the security of our liberties so often threatened by a christian fundamentalist world view? I long for a republic as dreamed by Mr. Jefferson:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802"

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that while the Republicans may often be our enemies, the Democrats aren't necessarily our friends.

People of sense need to band together against those who would misuse the public trust, whatever party they might belong to.

Misappropriating public funds for religion is a violation of the public trust and the Constitution of the United States. Imagine the outcry if this money had been going to a Buddhist or (gasp!) Muslim cause. It's no less vile when committed in the name of the majority religion.

And once again, it's up to a prominent atheist to correct a prominent Christian on matters of morality and legality. No matter how righteous the cause, stealing other people's money to pay for it is immoral and unethical. As an unbeliever, I think it's time to stop pretending that religious folk have a monopoly on virtue.

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that about says it all. hate to see what she would teach children,,,, the earth is flat? the earth is 6000 years old? anyone who is not like her should be stoned to death? it is illegal for a public official,an officer of the court, to behave this way, she should be removed immediately.

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Democrats are freakin' nuts in Illinois! Especially CHICAGO Democrats.

I've never seen such an ignorant, egomaniacal, rude, self-centered, slick, law-breaking, idiotic, incompetent, completely bat-shit crazy bunch of fools in my life! At least none that would compare to the morons we're at the mercy of since the Dems took over our Governor's office nearly six, looooong years ago. The incompetent cronies they have put in place in our state agencies would rival ole' Brownie. And they are completely out of control.

Being a lifelong Democrat, I proudly voted for "Blago" when he was running for his first term as Governor, with high hopes for positive change after decades of a Republican power stranglehold. Imagine my shock and disappointment when we got this insanity instead.

I've always said, "The worst Democrat is better than the best Republican." I'm not so sure anymore. Take our previous Governor, Republican George Ryan - yes, I know, he's in PRISON now - at least he put a moratorium on the death penalty and emptied our death row by commuting all the sentences to "life."

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Rather than demanding her resignation, this Monique Davis should step up to the podium and profusely apologize for her irrational, pro-xian outburst. We all had our 'bad hair days' and she's no different from anyone else. Other reasons could be that she was 'on the rag' or undergoing a mid-life crisis and that does make for strange behavior, as she has vociferously demonstrated.

See, even atheists can bestow forgiveness. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on that.

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I've seen enough examples of conservative attempts to infiltrate and corrupt the Democratic party to last a lifetime. My favorite was the local congress critter who ran as a Democrat and once elected promptly changed his political party back to Republican. They have been trying to get anti-abortion moles into our party for decades.
We can talk about being 'all inclusive' till we're blue in the face, but this is what happens when you try to play both sides, you make people think both parties are just different heads on the same beast.
Cut her off!

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There is no such source and cause of strife, quarrel, fights, malignant opposition, persecution, and war, and all evil in the state as religion. Let it once enter our civil affairs, our government would soon be destroyed. Let it once enter our common schools, they would be destroyed. Those who made our Constitution saw this, and used the most apt and comprehensive language in it to prevent such a catastrophe.
~Justice H.S. Orton, Wisconsin Supreme Court

(Concurring opinion in Weiss v. the District Board, decided on March 18, 1890, ruling bible readings and devotionals in public schools unconstitutional.)

Rev. El Mundo
Pastor, WVCSR

Click HERE to listen to Davis' harangue.

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Here is my email to the Representative and I ask others to join the effort to impeach her:

Ms. Davis:
Your outburst against Rob Sherman when he attempted to testify before the House State Government Administration Committee lays waste to your 20 years of good work representing the South side of Chicago.
I have appeared before many Illinois Committees over the last 40 years, met with governors on issues, sat on the board of several civil liberties groups, and have never seen (actually I only listened to your rant) such rude and ignorant behavior.
Shame, shame on you and I have signed up, and agreed to donate $1,000, to the effort to impeach you. Both the Illinois and the US Constitutions protect our rights to be heard and to not be discriminated against on the basis of our religion, or lack there of.
You make me feel ashamed to be a civil rights activist, lifelong Democrat and past supporter of your work. I have also written Barack Obama asking him to publicly denounce you. I agreed with most of what Dr. Jeremiah Wright has said over the years and believe that Barack was correct to attend his church, but you have gone off your medications and over the edge and must be removed from office.
Sincerely,
James Swanson
Chicago, Illinois

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"Chicago atheists, you know what to do: next election, campaign against Monique Davis. Get someone who is not a raving nutbag to run. Right now, her district needs to flood her mailbox with letters of protest. You can find her contact information online; let her know that you do not appreciate her efforts to disenfranchise and discriminate against you."

Please note that the same goes for Chicago NON-atheists:

You don't have to be an atheist to object to bigotry or to speak out in defense of the Establishment Clause and the separation of church and state. Our country's most fundamental values transcend specific systems of religious belief or non-belief.

The more people of varying faiths (and non-faiths) who flood Monique Davis's mailbox with letters of protest, the better! It would be appropriate for her to step down now, after this outrageous incident. Whether she does nor not, though, the Democrats in her district should start working right now to find someone else -- someone who holds real democratic (i.e., American!) values -- to represent them.

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In my opinion, fundamentalist Christianity is MUCH more dangerous than atheism.

This woman needs a course or two in constitutional law and American history. That, and a good whoop up side the head! (Just kidding there....)

VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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I have expressed my profound and unremitting anger to Ms. Davis and stated that she lacks the fitness to serve the people of Illinois. Mr. Sherman is owed a public apology from Ms. Davis and if she is unwilling to do so, she should without delay, resign her position.

She has violated one of the fundamental precepts of this country in an unconscionable fashion. The Bush administration has already done it's dirty work in trashing the Constitution. It is frightening that a Democrat would follow suit. God (or whatever) help us all.

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Though I do not agree with Ms. Davis' conclusions her fire is very much needed in the US. House and Senate. Did any of you witness any part of the sickening Pretraeus/Crocker/Senate orgy yesterday?

Now, there's a place for emails and gatherings of millions of voting citizens from all 50 states. Washington DC.

A Fascist Dictatorship with growing military powers is in place and a Dem prez frontrunner being quadruple teamed and zero real serious outrage, compaired to a state legislator going off on a person protesting the alleged misappropiation of a few hundred thousand bucks. Where is the moral equivolence campared to more than two million dead, dying, displaced, damaged human beings and an estimated 3 trillion dollar$ ripped off by politicians and their friends and family? No end in sight. And we take it like an abused hild endures child abuse.

As to the defense that "religion" is unprovable, "Atheism" is more unprovable than most forms of religion. While some phenomina can be attributed to the supernatural there is no human being dead, alive or unborn who can prove conclusively with scientific proof that there is no God.

I share this thought because the pro and anti religion emotional breakdowns posted thus far negate the point that it sems you both are attempting to make. Cool your bias. If you are really sure why all the yelling, stomping, and high blood pressure? Calm down. Be believable. Or not.

Again as for Ms. Davis, bring her to DC. and turn her loose on the likes of Pretraesus and Crocker. I know what I believe. I don't care what Ms. Davis believes. At least she acts like she really believes whatever it is . More than can be truthfully said about the current crop of go along to get along DC. Democrats.

Monique Davis for kick ass tutor.

(Liberty to correct typos granted.)

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............believes in this particular superstition proportionally more than other minorities. To excuse them for that would be patronizing in the extreme. Let's hold them to the same standards of rationality as we would hold others.

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The only group left in America to be hated and vilified with impunity are the atheists. (My guess is that the Democratic "legislator" responsible for that outburst thinks an atheist is a Satanist. No that it matters...she's still full of crap.)

The next time a church has some snarky comment on atheism on their sign (a tradition around Easter, by the way), substitute the N-word for "atheist." No one would dare say something like that except to an atheist today.

It's past time that should change, before the "Christians" get out their torches and start to stone atheists.

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TAKE YOUR OUTRAGE TO WASHINGTON DC.

"....there is no human being dead, alive or unborn who can prove conclusively with scientific proof that there is no God."

There's also no human being dead, alive or unborn who can prove conclusively with scientific proof that there are no teapots circling the Earth or gnomes and fairies buried deep under the petunias in my garden. So, what's your point?
~Rev. El

My point is: we who are the "We The People" of our nation's documents have lost our nation to clever criminal devotees of Fascism because we are more devoted to one sub-group identity or another than to a sense of security in who we are as individuals. In this particular instance Atheism seems to be the defining "sub-ism." Defend it if you must.

My sub-point is: it is no different, and to an objective observer, one who finds a sense of greater somebody-ness in the religion of Atheism is no smarter than one who finds the same in the religion of Christianity or Islam or Judaism, Hinduism or any of the other many religions of the world. Some man or woman invented all of them at some point in time.

Thanks for your question. If you still miss my intent I will try again.
-----------------------------------------------
RE: Take your Outrage to DC.
Posted by: blackie4aces on Apr 9, 2008 1:00 PM

You wrote:
"I don't care what Ms. Davis believes. At least she acts like she really believes whatever it is."

Uh, this is, perhaps, one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen in a long time. Think about it.

Belief is not prima facia good. Hitler believed in his ideology. And belief can be very powerful, but not necessarily inherently good. I would imagine that many, or at least some, torturers of the Spanish Inquisition "believed" they were doing god's work, as I am sure that American torturers believe they are doing the patriotic work of the nation. But, my friend, just belief don't make it so.

Now, what is your point, and why did you abridge my statement? I said "I know what I believe." Implicit in that declaration is "I don't need any religion to convince me to believe the existence of God or who God is or is not." Therefore, I don't care what Rep. Davis, you, or George Bush's mother believes regarding Atheism or Jesus, or the mother of Jesus believes or what Roman Catholics believe about her. I Don't Care. It is none of my business.

I began with "my conclusions are different from Ms. Davis'"

You brought your opinion to this conversation and I brought mine. They differ.

YOU WROTE:
"And incidentally, atheism is not a belief. It is the absence of belief in an uproven and likely unprovable proposition. It is not a positive or alternative reaction to the impulse to superstition of human beings; it is a rejection of that impulse as anything rational or constructive."

In other words, by your definition Atheism is an opinion. Your conclusion is opinion is not belief.

Why argue against the nonexistent? Did you say Ridiculous? And whoever told you that it is anyone's job to prove the existence of God lied to you.

YOU WROTE:
"Modern fascism has arisen in the birthplace of the Reformation, Germany, and the seat of the Roman Catholic Church, Italy. It took root for the longest period in Europe in Spain, a deeply religious country. It flourishes in South America, also devoutly Catholic. In America the closest we have come to modern fascism, incorporating many, though not all- yet-characteristics of fascism, has been during the administration of George Bush, who owes his election to Chrisian religious fundamentalists and Evangelical Christians."
(cont. below)

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No, The Supreme Court.

No,No, No - 1930s Americana.
Are you aware of a thwarted coup attempt against Pres. FDR? Read the musings of Gen. Smedley Butler. All this pre-dated Gingrich, Atwater, Reagan, Rove, Bush, Cheney/Bush, PNAC et al but are all connected. Henry Luce was advocating American Fascism long before Faiwell, Robertson, Shaeffer, Reed et al organized the White racist religious Right.
I like real science, real music, real good food, fun and real history. But thanks for your version of history.

YOU WROTE:
"If I were you, when talking up religion and belief systems, I'd stay away from fascism. The kind of belief you are talking about seems to go hand-in-hand with fascism."

Don't assume. You misjudge badly.
I am anti-Fascism and anti- Police State.

You see, I was born poor and raised by wise people. I haven't voted against my economic interest because I have not drunk the fear "Blacks and Mexicans" kool-aid like 50% of my dumb fellow Americans did since Nixon. Repub and Dem. If you are one of them Repent and work and Vote for real CHANGE in '08.

I do not talk up religion. I detest all religions. My only label is HUMAN. Got That? HUMAN. You're really given to hearing what wasn't said. Why? What's your agenda? Did you splice and dice Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr's words?

If I were you when defending the people you are defending I would stay away from using the distraction of Ghosts like Hitler, who pale in comparison to today's vicious White racist Anti-American punks holding forth in DC. staying the course and commiting Genocide around the Globe.

What is at stake is bigger that your issues with a God concept. Rep. Davis for kick ass tutor, because "at least she acts like she really believes in whatever it is she believes in." Not trying to trick or trap you or "members" of your group. Too much us against them already. We need more WE.

She eems to or she acts like. The operative word is act as in ACTION. Less talk and more action. You might find that your need to look good and appear smart has resulted in your becoming pseudo educated beyond your limited intelligence.

Thanks for sharing,


Take Your Outrage To DC.

Children Are Watching.

Peace.

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I consider western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ’s Christianity.

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When human conditions degrade due to the dependence of the people on the products of the civilization for the management of life the ones who regained the real human consciousness demanded that life should be based on its own System that they called the Truth. They were Zoroaster in ancient Iran, Buddha in India, Christ and Mohammad in the Middle-East. Though religious faiths just give some sort of mental exercise they do not express our spirituality as it can be had only when we belong to the System. Christ called it entering the 'Kingdom of God', similar to the ancient version of 'yoga'- union with God/the System of God. The System is the basis of knowledge and life, an aspect that Christianity denies to its followers.

When Christianity got developed it gave importance to what Christ did not teach, for example relating life to the Bible. Moral dimensions of the society get affected whenever people relate themselves to speculations. Morality, like spirituality, can be had only when we relate ourselves with various aspects of the System of Life. The various aspects are parents, other members of the family and the society, and Nature. The present civilization that cannot survive without destroying is the product of the religious perceptions that impose divinity in their own systems. All these systems cannot be sacred as they have no value in the System of God/Life.

The Iraq war is the product of this alien vision that is unethical and anti-culture. The theology that says that all the sins can be redeemed through prayer can generate only more and more sins- you sin and then wash it away with the faith-detergent, then again do the same so that you need not have any conscience in living. Bush is a product of this view of anti-culture. The religious faith that does not moderate human actions is an agent of degradation.

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