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Did Cheney Order Abu Zubaydah’s 83rd Waterboarding?

Posted by Emptywheel, Firedoglake at 4:06 PM on April 22, 2009.


We're mighty close to tying Cheney -- through just one degree of separation -- to "frivolous" torture. And I suspect he's aware of that.

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McClatchy reports that one of the reasons Khalid Sheikh Mohammed got waterboarded 183 times and Abu Zubaydah got waterboarded 83 times is that Cheney and Rumsfeld refused to believe they had no information on ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq. (h/t Hmmm)

The Bush administration put relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.

[snip]

A former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld demanded that intelligence agencies and interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration.

"There were two reasons why these interrogations were so persistent, and why extreme methods were used," the former senior intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity.

"The main one is that everyone was worried about some kind of follow-up attack (after 9/11). But for most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there."

This suggests that when Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded an additional time--perhaps his 83rd--against the judgment of the interrogators working with him directly, the "elements with CIA Headquarters" that ordered up the additional torture were being pushed by Cheney and Rummy (a suggestion JimWhite made here).

 

This is not to say that the interrogation program has worked perfectly. According to the IG Report, the CIA, at least initially, could not always distinguish detainees who had information but were successfully resisting interrogation from those who did not actually have the information. See IG report at 83-85. On at least one occasion, this may have resulted in what might be deemed in retrospect to have been the unnecessary use of enhanced techniques. On that occasion, although the on-scene interrogation team judged Zubaydah to be compliant, elements with CIA Headquarters still believed he was withholding information. [Redaction of more than one full line] See id, at 84. At the direction of CIA Headquarters interrogators, therefore used the waterboard one more time on Zubaydah. [Redacted] See id, at 84-85. [my emphasis]

I'll have more to say on the intelligence they got from Abu Zubaydah in a later post. But if Cheney can be tied--presumably through Tenet--to waterboarding sessions that even the torturers considered excessive, it sure explains why Tenet got the White House to endorse its torture program in a statement as one of the last things he did as DCI. And it explains why Cheney has been so quick to enter the fray with his torture apologies.

We're mighty close to tying Cheney--through just one degree of separation--to "frivolous" torture. And I suspect he's aware of that.

Digg!

Tagged as: torture, dick cheney


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Where is the Prosecutor?!
Posted by: hedgewytch on Apr 22, 2009 5:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want indictments and I want them NOW! I've been asking for accountability and justice for over 4 years. My representatives have ignored me. The evidence is overwhelming.

It's time for the American people to yell loudly and forcably now so they CANNOT IGNORE our call for JUSTICE anymore!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Thank you Bush and Cheney! Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Where is the Prosecutor?! Posted by: Longdream
Oh, the frivolity!
Posted by: Longdream on Apr 22, 2009 7:42 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That bastard looks like a torturer. You can't do it unless you enjoy it, and that's a fact.

I want a prosecutor, too. I also want a new era in the media and on the street--one of razor-sharp skepticism about every single twist, turn, trick and felonious maneuver that slithers out of the sideshow that Cheney and his minions bark from. I want them undressed, exposed and beaten, and their every word held up to ridicule and scorn.

I want them to know what it's like to be scared. That would be justice.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Oh, the frivolity! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Oh, the frivolity! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Oh, the frivolity! Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Oh, the frivolity! Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Oh, the frivolity! Posted by: Longdream
» What is there left to write then? Posted by: godsbreath64
» RE: Oh, the frivolity! Posted by: Razional Thinker
Wasting your time until you expose 9/11 as a lie
Posted by: pfgetty on Apr 23, 2009 3:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok, even if there comes evidence that Cheyney really did demand torture be used and types of torture that cannot escape the definition, he will be exonerated.
Why? Because Americans, during any legal proceedings about this, will be made to relive the horror and fear of the aftermath of that terrible day. And they will remember the threat to their lives and our nation.
And so, when we are told that the torturing brought "valuable informaion", a claim that will not be challenged because of "national security", Americans will remember how eager we all were to do anything to stop the terrorists from more attacks. For many Americans Cheyney will again see the hero, and for most it will seem reasonable to have cut legal corners to keep us safe.
Bush/Cheyney have nothing to fear.

UNLESS the media begins a campaign to look for truth about what really happened on 9/11. Our leadership will not allow it. They will allow the media to obsess about torture, because it will lead nowhere. But they know that a real look into 9/11 will ensure that most Americans will begin to awaken to the idea that 9/11 was an inside job. The evidence is there, sitting and waiting to be presented in the media. But even the alternative media has been threatened and pressured to never expose the truth about 9/11. We don't know exactly how or why. But in over seven years, NO real expose's about it, the biggest story of all time.

Going after those who allowed or demanded torture will lead to nothing, really. Waste of time.
Going after the truth of 9/11 will change the world.

Alternet, are you up to the job? Or will you just be one more bit of controlled media that carefully presents only what is allowed by our tyrranical government?
You could change the world.
Or you could just ensure that you will continue to exist by not stepping on anyone's toes?

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» Idiot! Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: Idiot! Posted by: johnsumner
Here comes the wheelchair...
Posted by: mtatasmith on Apr 23, 2009 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and the handicapped parking placard too I suppose - poor Dick and Rummy over there on Maryland's eastern shore chewing on their fingernails - waiting for the knock at the door. Forget about it, the Republicans are going to raise such a stink the likes you can't imagine and the good old Dems. led by Pelosi will cave. Makes me ill - maybe the International War Crimes Tribunal will come to the rescue - and shame on us or the U.S. if THAT happens!!

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The Mound of Sound
Posted by: rdrdrd1 on Apr 23, 2009 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last tattered thread of justification is finally fraying and the curtain of secrecy that has safeguarded Dick Cheney and Condi Rice - and others - is collapsing.

From the dungeons of medieval Europe to the torture cells of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia despots have resorted to the use of the rack, thumbscrews, hot irons and waterboards and always for the same purpose - to get people to say precisely what you want them to say, to extract false confessions.

When it became known that individuals had been waterboarded as many as 180 times that was all anyone needed to know about why. Res ipsa loquitor - the thing speaks for itself. It was to extract a false confession to link Saddam to al Qaeda. That has nothing at all to do with interrogation to get reliable intelligence. That was abjectly evil.

Now the reports in McClatchey show that Cheney pressured interrogators to waterboard suspects to extract proof linking them to Saddam and that Cheney pressured Justice Department lawyers to furnish opinions justifying or covering for his barbarism just as he'd pressured intelligence agencies to game the evidence on WMD.

Dick Cheney has earned a lifetime membership in the Greybar Hotel.

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The Citizen's-Arrest Mother-Lottery
Posted by: godsbreath64 on Apr 23, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheney and The minion,
Rumsfailed,
Gonzew,
Kall Karl KARL
on and on ...

Chain their nuts together,
build a glass
on ground zero,
to ONLY then,
move on.

Madame
Con-con
could strap on, so
she still won't have to
(move on).

Farewell mounting
US debt,
world disdain,
national tort.

Oh, but if only in a perfect world.

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» Um, that was a glass house Posted by: godsbreath64
» RE: Um, that was a glass house Posted by: Longdream
America was Wrong- Either Now or after WW2- Pick one
Posted by: Purple Girl on Apr 23, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Repugs have once again gotten themselves into a logic dilemma. Either America was wrong to torture prisoners at Gitmo & Abu Ghraib, or We were wrong to Prosecute the Nazi's who used those same methods after WW2.Are they suggesting the Greatest Generation was wrong? Are they suggesting the Nazi's had every right to use these methods against their 'enemies'?If so what other acts where justifiable during War time?
We have yet to hear about those being held in Black Prisons, where no legal CYA is required.When Cheney is begging for more Torture memos to be released, you have to wonder Why... what he wants to obscure or deflect attention away from. Could it also be a means to avoid furhter inquiry to the Assasination hit squad.Being forthright and an advocate of transparency has never been something Dick has been known for.Why Now?
Let's also be clear the ONLY reason we have this documentation is that the CIA Requested legal cover. What crimes were committed which a legal Brief was never requested. When you cut your political teeth in an admin which exercised and proclaimed Executive power & Priviledge 40 yrs ago, and then become VP in an admin who took it to even higher levels- You don't need 'no stinkin' Briefs esp when you are doing things outside the realm of the American Legal System,geographically.
So which is it- Condemn the Bushies or vindicate the Nazi's (and Pol Pot, and the Spanish Inquistion..). A simple fucking question, we all await your answer.

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CRONYISM OF ATTORNEYS IN DOJ AND THE JUDICIAL BRANCH:Collusion among Lawyers To Permit Torture
Posted by: IsidoroRDL on Apr 23, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an independent and nonpolitical federal civil litigation attorney I have for the past three decades sued the government for malfeasance under both Republican and Democratic Administrations.* This is because I know that history has shown that Democracies such as ours are precarious institutions. Constant vigilance must be maintained to preserve our Nation from undue government encroachment authorized by lawyers and judges.

Recall the sorry behavior of German judges and lawyers during Nazi era.

“Legal scholars are still perplexed to explain how a highly developed and sophisticated legal system – German law and jurisprudence under the Weimar Republic – became so readily corrupted and how legal actors – German judges and other judicial officials, lawyers, and law professors – could so easily become willing accomplices in this process. The sad fact is that legal sophistication did not inoculate German law and German legal actors from actively participating in the perverse changes being made to the German legal system during the Nazi era, including the legal exclusion of German Jews from the concept of “citizen,” and the Nuremberg Race Laws, which gradually transformed the non-citizen Jew into a subhuman not worthy of life. By the time the gas vans came and the human slaughter factories were built in Auschwitz and the other death camps, the murder of the six million Jews and other persecuted minorities was done completely within the framework of German law.” Yad Vshem The Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes Remembrance Authority, 2004.

More than 200 years ago Thomas Jefferson stated that, "[t]he germ of destruction of our nation is in the power of the judiciary, an irresponsible body - working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall render powerless the checks of one branch over the other and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."

Thus, we must make certain that we as a Nation, faced with the threat of terrorism, do not transform ourselves into legal tyrannies permitting government officials immunity for acts outside of their scope of employment, judicial capacity, or jurisdiction (see http://www.liamsdad.org/others/isidoro.shtml).

Isidoro Rodriguez, Esq.
Member of the Bar of the U.S. Supreme Court since September 11, 1992

*See Martinez v. Lamagno and DEA, 515 U.S. 417 (1995)(A FTCA suit I filed against a negligent DEA agent who caused an accident while driving drunk and having sex. There DOJ argued that there was no liability based on the"James Bond Defense").

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IT'S TIME TO MOVE AHEAD WITH THESE CHARGES
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Apr 23, 2009 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Either go ahead with full blown investigations immediately or dismiss all charges. Our own shameful, inhumane behavior is turning into a three ring circus and providing material for comedians. Talk radio/TV might have to find something else to rant about. It's disrespectful and another very serious matter is being made light of. We have a way of turning the most awful things into everyday 'stuff'. It's not possible to prosecute selectively. Many people would be brought down. But the U.S. knows about collateral damage. It's the price we have to pay. Why not move on. ANNA

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Look at this 1952 Supreme Court opinion re: Presidental Actions
Posted by: Razional Thinker on Apr 23, 2009 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So where did "oppositional Yoo" come up with the pres can do anything? Read as follows. It is related. Trust me.

In 1952 Supreme Court case Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer addressed President Harry Truman’s order to seize steel mills that had been shut down in a labor dispute during the Korean War. Truman believed the strike threatened national defense and thus he could act under his Article II powers in the Constitution.

But the Supreme Court overturned Truman’s order, saying, “the President's power, if any, to issue the order must stem either from an act of Congress or from the Constitution itself.”
Since Congress hadn’t delegated such authority to Truman, the Supreme Court ruled that Truman’s actions were unconstitutional, with an influential concurring opinion written by Justice Robert Jackson. My,my.

I believe it is called checks and balances.

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A quest for the truth, huh?
Posted by: willymack on Apr 23, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Truth my ass. Ol' quasimodo wanted somebody to say Saddam Huessein and Al Queda were in cahoots, and to hell with the truth. Any amount of torture was just fine with that evil degenerate. We need to jail the sorry lot of them whether they thought torture was "legal" or not.

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» RE: A quest for the truth, huh? Posted by: Longdream
Present/former Attorneys of DOJ Collusion with Judges of the Judicial Branch to Use Cronyism
Posted by: IsidoroRDL on Apr 27, 2009 7:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I write as a Nam Vet, a former White House appointee in both the Carter and Reagan Administrations, and as an independent federal civil litigation practitioner for the past three decades, to underscore that history has shown that Democracies such as ours are precarious institutions. Constant vigilance must be maintained to preserve our Constitution from government encroachment by legal sophistry of lawyers and judges acting to circumvent the limitations on the powers of by “the people” under the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

For this reason we must make certain that as a Nation faced with the threat of terrorism, we do not transform ourselves into legal tyrannies by permitting the legal profession to utilize cronyism to immunize government employees and judges from accountability for negligent, or criminal acts outside of their scope of authority, judicial capacity, or jurisdiction.

We must always recall the sorry behavior of German judges and lawyers use of cronyism during Nazi era which played in allowing Hitler to power, because, “[l]egal scholars are still perplexed to explain how a highly developed and sophisticated legal system – German law and jurisprudence under the Weimar Republic – became so readily corrupted and how legal actors – German judges and other judicial officials, lawyers, and law professors – could so easily become willing accomplices in this process. The sad fact is that legal sophistication did not inoculate German law and German legal actors from actively participating in the perverse changes being made to the German legal system during the Nazi era, including the legal exclusion of German Jews from the concept of “citizen,” and the Nuremberg Race Laws, which gradually transformed the non-citizen Jew into a subhuman not worthy of life. By the time the gas vans came and the human slaughter factories were built in Auschwitz and the other death camps, the murder of the six million Jews and other persecuted minorities was done completely within the framework of German law.” Yad Vshem The Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes Remembrance Authority, 2004.

The issue of “torture,” is a subpart of the larger issue of the criminal conspiracy of DOJ and judges to violate the Rule of Law. (http://www.liamsdad.org/others/isidoro.shtml).

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