These guys don't give a flying crap about the widdle biddy fetuses. Their objective is to control women's bodies and control sexuality, and impose and maintain patriarchy. Until they are confronted on these grounds, loudly and firmly 24/7, they will continue to submit such legislation and get away with it. Even if the bills fail, they will keep coming back because no one calls them out on the main issue, which is imposition of outmoded religious traditions upon society by theocrats.

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...I think it eluded me....

Call it whatever you want, Todd - I'm sure the Bill of Rights would have another name for it. Me, I call it a flagrant and unwarranted violation of personal privacy. The information that you want to make public is the business of a woman, her doctor, her family, and no-one else. Never mind that the public isn't entitled to know: what the hell makes you think the public even _wants_ to know!!?

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Answers to questions:
1: Fuck You.
2. Fuck You again.
3. Fuck You and the everyone you work for.
4. Fuck You and all your relatives.
5. Fuck You and all your friends.
6. Fuck You Oklahoma.
7. Fuck You Dan Sullivan.
8. And a big Fuck You to Todd Lamb. May you someday lay down with an extremely hungry lion.

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Now we know this law will end up on court, and will be struck down due to invasion of privacy on our health records.

But until that time I suggest that they also post information on every man who has gotten a prescription for vigara, has had a vasectomy, and how many children he has fathered(regardless of whether he pays support on them or not or has had them out of wedlock).

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That's a matter of public record when a child is born, even stillborn. Why not name the father of the child being aborted? Huh?
ANNA

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but it seems to me this is exactly the kind of demographic information that over time will support the fact that all kinds of women from all demographics get abortions.

Unless I'm mistaken*, there will be no names publicized here, only the demographic details. Is the census an invasion of privacy then?

*I take it all back if names are to be publicized. That would clearly be a ridiculous thing to do.

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We should try to make a list of the men who are the thought leaders of this 'movement' and start finding out the dirty details of their sex lives, publish that. Who is on viagra, who is closet gay or fooling around, venereal diseases, under aged prostitutes, surgeries, etc, etc.

I bet every one of them is a horrible hypocrite with some personal secrets they would like to hide. Perhaps they would find it educational to have a little taste of their own medicine.

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(and I use the term loosely) not a violation of HIPAA?

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Are you ashamed to have this information made public?? I get a kick out of the little ad that says 77% of men are against abortion and 100% will never get pregnant. Funny, when women NEED men to get pregnant. It's not just YOUR baby, but his too. So, you're upset that you are the ones who have to bear the burden of childbirth? GET OVER IT! Men are angry that sometimes they have to pay for sex...so what.

You gals need to understand it takes TWO to tango. Unless an arrangement has been made (in vitro, etc.) or the pregnancy is the result of a rape or something similar, the father has just as much a right to that child as the mother. PERIOD.

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I didn't know men went through the same crap as women when there was a pregnancy.I was around in the years before Roe V wade and I remember friends having miscarriages in the kitchen after an induced abortion.They used to find bodies after the botched ones.Guys used to have to punch their girl friends in the stomache because the girl would insist.The coat hanger was the back room tool of choice.Yes.Abortion is ugly and it would be great if they were no longer necessary.Too bad the same people that oppose abortion also oppose sex education and birth control.Why is that?

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In 1973, the Supreme Court guaranteed American women the right to choose abortion in its landmark decision Roe v. Wade. In Roe, the Court issued a compromise between the state's ability to restrict abortion and a woman's right to choose.

Since that time, the anti-choice movement has worked furiously to dismantle it – with the ultimate goal of overturning the decision altogether. Anti-choice activists are working hard in state legislatures, the courts, and Congress to take away our rights.

Making abortion access more difficult and dangerous is a key tactic of the anti-choice movement. Even with Roe v. Wade's protections still in place, 87 percent of U.S. counties have no abortion provider. Yet anti-choice lawmakers continue to impose a broad range of restrictions on women and their doctors, making abortion difficult, and in some cases nearly impossible, to obtain.

The anti-choice movement's ultimate goal is to outlaw abortion in all circumstances. While some states still have laws on the books that would ban abortion throughout pregnancy, Roe v. Wade's protections prevent these bans' enforcement. However, state legislatures across the country continue to consider enacting new total bans in order to challenge Roe in the courts. In addition, in the majority of state legislatures and Congress, anti-choice lawmakers have passed unconstitutional laws that would ban safe and medically appropriate abortion as early as the 12th week of pregnancy.

Women everywhere are under attack.

Anti-choicer's want to take away ANY MEANS you may have over your reproductive rights.

Anti-choicers are attacking your insurance, your privacy, and your equality.

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Abortion is a painful choice, never a happy unthinking occasion. In trying to think of nonviolent ways to move this emotionally charged issue, I envision courageous women wearing t-shirts and carrying signs that say simply:
I HAD AN ABORTION.
ASK ME WHY.

Let us tell our stories, long hidden. It is time they came to light. We can name the fathers, the circumstances, and why we came to such a hard choice. No need for shouting, just the simple truth. Everyone needs healing. Both women and men, everyone needs the full measure of truth.

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I'd like to know when the Federal government is going to get a spine and a set of stones and stop states from even introducing, much less passing, such ridiculous legislation. It is unConstitutional for states to enacts laws that contradict Federal laws.

The law discussed in this article is quite clearly in direct violation of HIPAA and privacy laws.

In Florida, two moron Rethuglican Reps., Ambler and Robaina, at the behest of their corporate buddies, have introduced a bill in direct contradiction to the Federal legislation just passed to help prevent homelessness, allowing renters in properties in the foreclosure process to stay up to 90 days. These two dipsticks are trying to circumvent the judicial process and pass legislation allowing condo associations the right to evict an owner's tenants, turn off utilities, and prohibit use of common areas, rather than dealing with the owner, which is what they're supposed to do, but they want to make it legal to harass the poor tenant instead. This is SO typical for Florida. I am in such a situation, and I am disabled, and I DARE these nitwits to try a stunt like that, so please support this petition:

linked text

Carol Tucker, MA
Court Reform-NOW

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So - women who've never had abortions can claim that they have had them...so that so many women make the claim that statistics is skewed and obviously flawed. Legislature will then vote to fine "liars" of course. By then, however, perhaps consciousness will be raised.

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Why on earth would anyone tell the truth in Oklahoma? If somebody demands that you give them info that's none of their business, you lie.

In this regard, it's handy that everyone who gets an abortion has to pay for it out of their own pocket. Since there's no insurance to tie you to your real identity, women are free to provide whatever info they see fit.

I'd hope to see a whole lot of Petunia Piggs, Sarah Palins, and Michelle Bachmanns on those Oklahoma websites, until the courts eventually strike it down.

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This guy Lamb is just another phony Christian pretending to do God's work when in fact his every breath is motivated by political and moral corruption. This data he wants to collect on women is based on pure racist hatred and misogynist spite.

Some of the questions are of legitimate medical and sociological interest but that is clearly not the intent of Mr. Lamb. His intention is to frighten and intimidate young women and their health providers, and along the way, he can suck up to the toothless morons who run the Republican Party in Oklahoma. I cringe at the thought of all the wives and daughters these monsters control.

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And those dipshit politicians will take Oklahoma straight down the slop chute into the Dark Ages.
Who knows? Maybe that's where they want to be.

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So I took the unbelievable liberty of cutting, pasting and re-posting it for all who need to read (for support) and for those numbskulls who haven't understood what this is all about.

Also to say a public thankyou to djnoll for the wonderful support you gave that girl.
Here's djnoll's text:

Guess what, Antonius?
Most of the women who get abortions do so for two reasons:

First, alone they cannot care for the child, whether financially or medically,and they are smart enough to realize that.

Second, the operative word in the first reason is "alone". The attitude you have shown in your posting indicates that you do not understand that most women who have a supportive partner will most probably not get an abortion. It is usually the ones whose husband or boyfriend does not want a child, or has abandoned the woman when she told them that she was pregnant that gets the abortion, unless it is a rape or incest or medically necessary abortion.

I can tell you from personal experience helping a young woman get to and from an abortion clinic that when the MEN outside that clinic started calling this girl a "murderer, baby killer" she was devastated. She was a recovering alcoholic and knew she could not care for a child. Her boyfriend had vanished the minute he knew she was pregnant. And when these cowards blocked my car as we were trying to leave, I got out and confronted them, asking which one of them would have adopted her child with fetal alcohol syndrome! Do you know how many of these concerned men stepped up? NOT ONE! I told them that they were hypocrites who were already emasculated if they could not accept such a child, and told them to move. They all slung away when they realized I would not let them spew their hate and their hypocrisy at this poor girl.

So, yes, you are right that the father has as much right as the mother to a child, but until I see those fathers in court to protect their children, until I see those fathers standing by the woman they have made pregnant, until I see those fathers stepping up and taking responsibility for raising that child no matter what, - until I see that, your comments are out of line and insensitive!

And that goes for all the men who will not adopt the child they force women to have when they stop abortions and force women to have children who end up in foster care or in the only homes a woman can provide with no help and who then become drains on the welfare system. You may be a man who had a girlfriend go through an abortion of your child (and I suspect that may be the case), but not all men are willing to take on a child alone and most men are not willing to bring a child with severe medical problems into an established home because of the problems (financial, medical, and emotional)that this can cause. So, Antonius, as you spout off your pious statements, perhaps you will consider that not everyone walks in your shoes, and that in fact most do not, and we feel that respect for others and their choices is important.

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Remind me please, isn't there some kind of a quote recited by every child every morning at every school before they go on to the day's work?

Something about every man having the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
OK, does that mean every person or only all the men?

Also, I realise that this equality thing hits some people right in the gut of their panic area, but you do pay lip service to it in, say, your aims for Iraqi or Afghani women; that's why you're there, right?

Common sense allows me to agree that men can never be equal to women.
For a start they will never, as the ad above reminds us, be able to carry children into the world.
Even assuming they would want to, which many women do, including those who can't, for whatever reason.

But also if men get raped, this cannot result in a pregnancy.
Many people reject advice from those who obviously can't have a clue what they are talking about.
Being pregnant is one area no man can personally visit.

So equality is not possible here.
(Note to the Christian Right: God in His wisdom made this choice.)
We could try to attain "separate but equal" though.

I still think the positive aspects of this questionnaire are – at best – questionable, but if this sauce is essential for the goose, then don't be greedy; let the gander have some too. He gets his own form to fill in, and it will also be published.

Here are the first eight questions that women AND MEN will have to reveal:

1. Date of abortion
2. County in which abortion performed
3. Age of mother / FATHER
4. Marital status of mother / FATHER
(married, (to each other?) divorced, separated, widowed, or never married)
5. Race of mother / FATHER
6. Years of education of mother / FATHER
(specify highest year completed)
7. State or foreign country of residence of mother / FATHER
8. Total number of previous pregnancies of the mother / CAUSED BY THE FATHER
Live Births
Miscarriages
Induced Abortions

Now THAT is my idea of common sense legislation.
I bet more men would rate my thoughts "five" than women will give me a "one".

Have a nice day.

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How is it that those who call themselves "pro-life" spend so much time, energy and money (tax, not their own) on trying to make life unbearably miserable for those who have it?

Believe me, nobody, but NOBODY, even thinks of an abortion unless she has VERY good reasons.

And – hallo, Antonius – I get your point about longing for fatherhood, I am sorry if you are grieving for a child your partner couldn't or wouldn't bring to term.

But if you want to father children, consult with your wife in advance, ok?

I am assuming you are married, for why would you entrust a woman you don't like enough to marry with your kids?

And men CAN adopt, if they want to – but perhaps only in those mature-thinking states which also take the lifetime happiness of single-sex couples seriously. Hmmmm......

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I would like to know who, what, where and how many are using this publicly funded or subsidized service. I do not believe this service should be free, and since it is a medical service we should at least have the minimalist of information which the questionare does provide. In the world of gender equality, the fact that the female may keep the child and then have the male answer every question asked of him by law is no less an intrusion on his life, right down to the last penny of his equity in life for many years to come. I do like the idea of at least acknowledging that when females expect free birth control as an afterthought, they should acknowledge at the very least the contributing party.

Males should take advantage of the sexual intercourse registry set up to announce your sexual relationships with just about anyone. Especially as insurance against the inconvenienced person taking the child to term without your permission, and then hitting you out of the blue at any time with an income request back dated for life. The repository some of these women call a womb does have a good economic turnaround if used correctly. However it is only good as long as females expect taxpayer handouts and jobs under parens patriae. Substituting daddy for Big Sugar Daddy is only as good as those who get funding for the doctrine. There is no large oasis of feministic Dystopian welfare on the horizon, it has been channeled into ideology. Idologies are very expensive, very !

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including, and especially, their sexual peccadilloes. Being Republican, a lot of Oklahoma lawmakers have a bunch of sexual hangups, for sure. It IS a state with lots of livestock, after all.

These cretins should worry more about the sorry state of their state, the needs of their citizens and the "intent of the framers", which they constantly quote without having a clue what the framers intended. As with JC, they attribute their strange worldview to the "framers", forgetting that fictitious biblical characters as well as living 18th century Constitution writers all had a high regard for humanity at their core. The Okie assholes just want to pander to the most fucked up of their Sooners.

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are nothing but an egregious form of intimidation that destroys the sancity of doctor-patient confidentiality. It also is the evident result of phoney religious ideology. It, in fact, is probably typical of the legislation created by the kind of politicians the armpit of the nation produces on a regular basis.

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during the Bush years. Our only hope is to keep feeding them rope and hope that they hang themselves. The legislature, both houses, is republican dominated. The newspapers are primarily right wing. The only real democratic paper in the state, The Oklahoma Observer, has a circulation of 25,000.

In most statistical cases Oklahoma is thankful for Mississippi. They are the buffer that keeps Oklahoma in 49th place. Even so, despite reports otherwise, Oklahoma's student population often places about mid pack on national student achievement tests. They do this inspite of schools that are funded down there with Mississippi. Think how this works. The quality of life in the United States has dropped to 30th place. Then Oklahoma is in 49th place in most measures. It is/would be interesting to speculate where Oklahoma would rate if she were an independant nation. It would be amazingly close to third world status.

The only thing Oklahoma has to brag about is the number of rich men she has and their willingness to supply the money to "buy" college football players. There is a question as whether educational institutions should exist to entertain an adult audience. Few entertain the question.

Oklahoma has faced a brain drain for decades. Everytime a bright young person is educated they have to leave the state to find employment. It wasn't just the Joads in the 1930s.

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