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The Tragic Arkansas Shooting and Conservative Hate Speech

Posted by Steven D., Booman Tribune at 3:52 PM on August 14, 2008.


Conservatives have long called for the heads of prominent liberals. Looks like they got their wish.
gwat600.1

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I've waited to make my first comments about the murder of the Chair of Arkansas' Democratic Party. I wanted to make sure that there was no personal connection between the shooter and Bill Gwatney, and apparently there wasn't one. Instead, there are some initial eerie similarities between the shooter Timothy Dale Johnson, and the man who massacred members of the Unitarian church in Knoxville, Tennessee last month. Both, for example had just lost their jobs, and both were very, very angry about that fact:

Wreaths and flowers lined the sidewalk in front of Arkansas' Democratic Party headquarters Thursday while police and others tried to explain why a man who lost his job at a Target store drove more than 30 miles and fatally shot the party's chairman.
Until Wednesday morning, when he wrote profanity-laced graffiti on a store wall, Timothy Dale Johnson had been a good employee in a stockroom, a Target spokeswoman said.

Johnson apparently lived alone and had never married. Under most circumstances he probably would have continied this isolated, but not all together unproductive life. He probably had certain emotional difficulties with people. According to neighbors he kept to himself, yet was considered a model employee at target. Yet, after losing his job, the first action he decided to take was to murder a prominent liberal and Democrat, much like Jim David Adkisson decided to take his rage and anger at his personal situation out on the "liberal" church in Knoxville. Both chose to use firearms to murder innocent people they did not know personally. It is logical to assume that they both chose their targets to make a statement. Indeed, we know for a fact that Adkisson, the church shooter, wrote a specific hate filled manifesto detailing his reasons for targeting the most prominent "liberal" church in Knoxville for his massacre.

I don't think it is a coincidence that within a few weeks, another disturbed individual who had lost his job (at least by his own perception -- Target is denying they terminated him), chose to shoot someone associated with "liberals" and "Democrats." The right wing bloggers and talk show hosts can deny their complicity in these "random" actions, and, indeed, legally they are not responsible for the criminal actions of a few "rogue" individuals. However, their writings and commentary, widely disseminated has spread a culture where violence against liberals, Democrats, feminists, gays, blacks, immigrants, Muslims and any other out group is frequently expressed as "comedy" or in fantasies of wish fulfillment. They can claim all they like that they cannot be held accountable for the aura of hatred they have engendered in American society, but their protestations ring hollow.

People too young to have lived through the Civil Rights era might not remember that much of the same hate speech was prominent among conservative, racist and nativist circles. The result was a wave of violent attacks on prominent liberals and activists, and I am not just referring to the Kennedy brothers and Dr King. A whole host pf people were murdered by those who felt entitled to take the lives of those who threatened their political ideology. The bombings in Birmingham, church burnings, Medgar Evers assassination and many other acts of violence.

Since the rise of talk radio and Fox News in the 1990's we have seen the slaughter of hundreds of people at the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City by individuals with right wing leanings. We have seen reports of numerous arrests of right wing "terrorists" (though they are never labeled as such in the media or by the Bush administration) who have planned massacres of "illegal immigrants" and other violence. We have experienced another wave of African American church burnings. We have seen numerous murders of gay men and women, where the defendants raise the ludicrous excuse of "gay panic" as a defense for their evil, premeditated killings.

It's past time for members of the the right wing wurlitzer to apologize for their hate speech and to renounce any further use of the language of extermination with respect to their political, religious and ideological adversaries, as well as their demonization of minorities. I don't expect them to do so, but it would be the right thing to do, and aren't they always preaching about how much more moral and decent their movement is compared to us "Leftards' with our evil gay agendas, our eco-terrorists, our traitorous failure to "support the troops" and a myriad of other imagined sins?

All I know is no prominent liberal spokespersons have made the following statements:

"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for." -- Rush Limbaugh
"I would have no problem with [New York Times editor Bill Keller] being sent to the gas chamber." -- Melanie Morgan
""[T]he day will come when unpleasant things are going to happen to a bunch of stupid liberals and it's going to be very amusing to watch." -- Lee Rogers
"And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we're not going to do anything about it. We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead." -- Bill O'Reilly
"Howard Dean should be arrested and hung for treason or put in a hole until the end of the Iraq war!"-- Michael Reagan
"Some liberals have become even too crazy for Texas to execute, which is a damn shame. They're always saying -- we're oppressed, we're oppressed so let's do it. Let's oppress them." -- Ann Coulter
"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee. ... That's just a joke, for you in the media." -- Ann Coulter
My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building." -- Ann Coulter
"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too." -- Ann Coulter
And Joe Wilson has no right to complain. And I think people like Tim Russert and the others, who gave this guy such a free ride and all the media, they're the ones to be shot, not Karl Rove. -- Rep. Peter King (R)
Where does George Soros have all his money? Do you know? Do you know where George Soros, the big left-wing loon who's financing all these smear [web]sites, do you know where his money is? Curaçao. Curaçao. They ought to hang this Soros guy. -- Bill O'Reilly
"Has there ever been a more revealing moment this year?" Mr. Rove asked. "Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals." -- Karl Rove
Miller is not alone, though some are more sanguine when it comes to evaluating the roster of contenders. Here's a note I got recently from a friend and former Delta Force member, who has been observing American politics from the trenches: "These bastards like Clark and Kerry and that incipient ass, Dean, and Gephardt and Kucinich and that absolute mental midget Sharpton, race baiter, should all be lined up and shot." -- Kathleeen Parker
Right now, even people sitting on the fence would like George Bush to drop a nuclear weapon on an Arab country. They don't even care which one it would be. I can guarantee you -- I don't need to go to Mr. Schmuck [pollster John] Zogby and ask him his opinion. I don't need anyone's opinion. I'll give you my opinion, because I got a better stethoscope than those fools. It's one man's opinion based upon my own analysis. The most -- I tell you right now -- the largest percentage of Americans would like to see a nuclear weapon dropped on a major Arab capital. They don't even care which one. They'd like an indiscriminate use of a nuclear weapon.
In fact, Christianity has been one of the great salvations on planet Earth. It's what's necessary in the Middle East. Others have written about it, I think these people need to be forcibly converted to Christianity but I'll get here a little later, I'll move up to that. It's the only thing that can probably turn them into human beings. ... Because these primitives can only be treated in one way, and I don't think smallpox and a blanket is good enough incidentally. Just before -- I'm going to give you a little precursor to where I'm going. Smallpox in a blanket, which the U.S. Army gave to the Cherokee Indians on their long march to the West, was nothing compared to what I'd like to see done to these people, just so you understand that I'm not going to be too intellectual about my analysis here in terms of what I would recommend, what Doc Savage recommends as an antidote to this kind of poison coming out of the Middle East from these non-humans. -- Michael Savage
Funny, but I have never heard of Michael Moore or Phil Donahue or Keith Olbermann or Al Franken or Nancy Pelosi or Barack Obama or Dennis Kucinich or Howard Dean or (name your favorite liberal here) making public statements recommending the murder of of conservatives, media figures, politicians, or judges. They blame us for 9/11 and Katrina but as Jesus said: And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

That's a pretty big beam, my conservative friends. Start doing something about it before we see any more innocent people killed.

Digg!

Tagged as: target, bill gwatney, arkansas' democratic part, timothy dale johnson


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Of COURSE you haven't heard any liberal journalist advocate ...
Posted by: wolfgangmo75 on Aug 14, 2008 3:59 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... violence against others.

That is because by all accounts they are actually human whereas the right wing ****tards on the air at the behest of corporations are not.

The article talks about not being able to hold the talk show hosts liable for the acts of a few lunatics, but that is just a matter of legislation. If we elect a congress that will make it illegal then it will be.

I would like to see the corporate managers and CEO's held personally responsible. Let's get old testament on their butts.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Real Threat
Posted by: QQOblivion on Aug 14, 2008 6:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush regime has categorized "eco-terrorists" as the number one domestic terrorist threat. Number one.
But how many people have the so-called eco-terrorists killed?

Now, how many people have the KKK killed? the neo-Nazi skin-heads? the church shooter? Eric Rudolf (spelling?) and other gay bashers and abortion-clinic bombers? TIM McVEIGH and TERRY NICHOLS? the anthrax mailer? Etc Etc
EVERY American terrorist that has killed Americans on American soil that I can think of was a rightwing loony. No exceptions.

Why doesn't the FBI look at the REAL terrorist threat to America for once!?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The Real Threat Posted by: hagwind
» RE: The Real Threat Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Real Threat Posted by: hms2004
» The FBI Posted by: EinMD
I don't care
Posted by: rickiey on Aug 14, 2008 6:31 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't care how many right wing loonies listen to other right wing loonies, and go even loonier and kill people. There isn't a figure on the number of dead bodies that is worth restricting our freedom of speech for. Numbers don't go up that high.

Rush Limbaugh, Savage, Michael Moore, Hannity, O'Reilly and the lot. I can't stand them all, I think they are all bad for America, and I want them all to be able to have their say.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I don't care Posted by: pkricker
» RE: I don't care Posted by: paulaH
» RE: I don't care Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I don't care Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: I don't care Posted by: mercianomad
» RE: I don't care Posted by: greenthumb
» RE: I don't care Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I diot Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: I diot Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I diot redux Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: I don't care Posted by: Mr. G
Waving the White Flag....
Posted by: CatDad on Aug 14, 2008 8:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democratic Party has completely capitulated on the issue of gun control...They don't want to "offend" white male hunters in certain key states....

The NRA has triumphed....their point of view is now official public policy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Waving the White Flag.... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Waving the White Flag.... Posted by: greenthumb
» Are you kidding? Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Waving the White Flag.... Posted by: LionHeart
Overused fascist rhetoric "Blame Game"
Posted by: Aposterioriperception on Aug 15, 2008 12:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A well referenced statement from an arrogant conservative in 1996 says volumes about right wing pundits and their hate-mongering freeper listeners when it comes to blaming liberals for everything they find wrong about American society, as if we don't have enough real problems, we have semantic context and perspective challenged flame-throwers wallowing in the gutter because forming a substantial argument is "intellectual banter" and their elitist snob of the month club rules won't allow that, better to just pander to knee-jerk emotional irrationalism, it's worked so far, why change a "winning" meme, after all, for the hard core conservative, it's all about winning, who cares if the facts don't support your argument?

More or less, the guy said that when a conservative policy/idea/regulation/harassment
fails, it's never the poor thought process of the conservative ideologue who wet-dreamed the
fecal mind-dump, it's always standard policy to "blame liberals/liberalism" since we all know most liberals are too spine-less to defend their reputation against mind-less conservative scape-goating when the inevitable conservative mistake collapses under it's own paper-mache shell, the perpetual failure will always be juxtaposed with another unrelated liberal stereotype strawman.

I think it's long overdue to ignore the typical "angry liberal" label, and bring the heat where the chickenhawks are most hypocritical, military service, I'd be the first one to admit that for years, I drank the
kool-aid and I thought that being in the military meant being conservative, but upon closer inspection, these chickenhawks really mean, "support the weaponization of the troops"

(in reality, they support burial of the troops, because it's cheaper if you don't have to pay a dead soldier, "cheap labor" applies to dirt poor "volunteer" soldiers, not just those same demonized immigrants who perform the crop picking jobs that anger thousands of right wingers who haven't figured it out that it's their fellow conservative business owners who refuse to offer a living wage, therefore, the jobs they spew vitriol about being stolen are jobs none of them would do without a gun pointed at their head, but then again, they might get turned on by the thought of that scenario, never mind!)

not the troops per se, since their actions constantly betray their empty rhetoric about the troops, whereby, they support huge contracts for defense contractors, but when it comes time for a raise or giving the troops support here at home and while deployed, the first excuse out of their pie-holes is: "we can't afford it", but watch how many back-flips these idiots will perform when a defense lobbyist tickle their re-election fund and there is no cost too large or a fellow politician's swing vote that they won't bend over backwards to pander for their non-constituent Special Interest Corporation.

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Stupid, Stupid Americans
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 15, 2008 1:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both of these shooters are symptomatic as to why Americans, in general, are viewed by the rest of the planet as so mind-bendingly stupid. Both of these men were thrown overboard years ago by a system that is, for the most part, a creation of conservative Republicans. And yet both of them were so brain-washed by right wing propaganda, they blamed their woes on liberals. It also should be noted that both shooters were from the south. It may not be a nice thing to say and a lot of you might like to hear this but is a fact that cannot be denied: Your average southern voter is not that bright. Just look at the quality of people they regularly send to congress. Someone of the "substance" of the recently deceased Jessie Helms would not have even made it to the primaries in most northern states.

I know it's wrong to claim that they're all idiots and I'm not even implying that. But, jeez Louise, what's the matter with so many of them? The south does not need to rise, the south needs to wait the fuck up.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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» RE: Stupid, Stupid Americans Posted by: buzzsaw
» RE: Stupid, Stupid Americans Posted by: buzzsaw
» Holy crap, how do you ... Posted by: wolfgangmo75
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» By the way... Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: By the way... Posted by: Karina
» RE: By the way... Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: By the way... Posted by: LauraK
» By the way, Mr "Mensa level IQ" Posted by: GuitarBill
» Jeez, guys, Posted by: OldRedleg
» RE: Jeez, guys, Posted by: greenthumb
» It may be a "Bible Belt" thing. Posted by: wheresarah
» RE: Stupid, Stupid Americans Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: Stupid, Stupid Americans Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Stupid, Stupid Americans Posted by: buzzsaw
Take It From Someone in the Hood
Posted by: NoPCZone on Aug 15, 2008 2:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The late Senator was no progressive (or liberal) by any means. The Arkansas Democratic Party is about as DLC as it gets and supports 'Right to Work' Laws and any number of other things that would place them far away from the Progressive/Liberal mindset and values.

I don't pretend to know why this man decided to drive into Little Rock and choose this particular person, but it may have more to do with his family name than his position as Chair of the State Democratic Party. The Gwatneys are well known through their heavily advertised auto business- a staple of local advertising for longer than most of us could remember. Maybe he was looking for someone well known or maybe he thought he had an axe to grind against the business...

Like the author, I lament the harsh and hateful speech doled out by the NeoCon echo chamber and other wing-nuts, but have yet to see anything in particular that would suggest that his motivations were particularly political or directed to the late Senator in particular. Otherwise, I think his conclusion is a bit of a stretch.

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Think about America under a McCain administration as opposed to governance by Barrack
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 15, 2008 3:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Unfit McCain becomes president, I see no end to the divisiveness in America that is tearing our country apart. God knows how many more liberals and progressives will be murdered on the street.

Conversely, with Senator Obama in the White HOuse, there would be a chance that we the people could come together again.


*Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, lifelong registered Republican and ardent Obama supporter.
Seven Reasons to Vote Against Unfit McCain

*For the benefit of first-time AlterNet visitors.

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But first he went to the Baptists...
Posted by: smendler on Aug 15, 2008 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The one irrgularity in this very tempting narrative is this (from the AP) :

>>After the shooting, Johnson sped away in a truck, stopped seven blocks away at the Arkansas State Baptist Convention and pointed a gun at the building's manager, police said. When asked what was wrong, the gunman said "I lost my job," according to Dan Jordan, the church group's business manager.

I want to know more about how that interaction played out. (And if Johnson has shot someone at the ASBC, I wonder what kind of screeds we'd be seeing about "the war on Christians"...!) Clearly the building manager defused the situation somehow, but no one in the media seems to be following up on that angle.

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» Yes, he did Posted by: BobKincaid
» Bwahahahahahahahaha Posted by: wolfgangmo75
Unfortunately...
Posted by: BeckyD on Aug 15, 2008 3:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I find talk radio's rhetoric vile and disgusting and it wouldn't surprise me to find a connection between it and the Arkansas shooting, as far as I know, there's no actual evidence (yet) in this situation linking the two.

If we make accusations based purely on speculation, we're not much better than the radio pundits who blame liberals for everything from the price of oil to acne. That's not to say we shouldn't be pointing out the hateful words of Coulter, Savage and the rest. We don't need to link right wing hate speech with this shooting in order to condemn such speech - it condemns itself.

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» RE: Unfortunately... Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Unfortunately... Posted by: greenthumb
» RE: Unfortunately... Posted by: buzzsaw
Best defense is a good offense
Posted by: sfortuna on Aug 15, 2008 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time to change the paradigm "A liberal is someone who will die for their believes, a reactionary someone who will kill for them". We all know who would win the culture war if it escalated into violence. The right wing are motivated not from principal or morality or even theology, but the utter terror that someone, anyone, may hold an upper hand in competing for resources and is thus a threat to their survival. It's simply a pure form of Darwinism exhibited by the limbic-brain herd driven to fear and panic through the constant struggle to acquire. I'm sure Hitler's ovens and Stalin's gulags were filled with the meek, the intelligent, the kind and gentle folks whose names do not survive history. Fascists need to dominate and control as much as flowers need sunlight. They enjoy striking the turned cheek, because those who show moderation and patience do not possess the vital survival instinct they pride themselves on and are thus subhuman. You cannot reason with the hysterical ball of misfiring synapses that is the reactionary mind, and unless you want to occupy a mass grave yourself, be prepared to take drastic measures to defend yourself.

To those of you who feel your lives are worth defending, I suggest you band together in localized militias. Learn survival and guerilla techniques, learn how to spot surveilence, LEARN HOW TO SHOOT. Militias could investigate and retailiate when a liberal enclave is attacked. It would be a thing of beauty to see liberals as not only willing to die, but willing to kill in order to preserve the safety of their loved ones.

The left has had too many martyrs and not enough lions. In an age of peak oil, financial instability, water crisis and climate change will be ever more paranoid delusionals who view your life as a threat and your possessions as their rightful due. Whether tycoon or middle class, they view life as a zero-sum game
where for every winner there are multiple losers and the ends justify the means. Our government is of the same mindset, and I caution my "Can't happen here" bretheren to consider a contingency plan in case you're wrong.

To the rest of you who would like to believe there is no true evil in the world, and that good intentions conquer adversity, I advise you to walk softly and carrry a Glock 30. If not, at least shut up if your friends do. Realize you are not going to get rid of the millions of guns hidden away in attics and drawers, nor will you cure the mental illness that is fascism. Hope for the best - prepare for the worst.

Peace & good luck

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» I politely disagree Posted by: BobKincaid
» RE: I politely disagree Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Best defense is a good offense Posted by: louissepulvado@yahoo.com
the "Lone Wolf" in action
Posted by: willie.horton on Aug 15, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate groups love to demonize others -- grouped by race, by gender, by reproductive choice, by politics -- but they (usually) stop just short of advocating violence.
They don't need to directly promote violent acts: they know that there are angry people out there who are just looking for an excuse to hurt others, and that their demonizing hateful politics give those "lone wolves" the scant excuse they need to act out their fantasies.

Look at the anti-choice movement: all those church groups and Republicans screaming that abortionists were murderers, even publishing names & addresses of clinic workers. It was inevitable that a few angry losers would start shooting doctors and bombing clinics.
Of course, the "pro-life" church leaders and politicians faintly decried their actions... but the fact is they were counting on such people.

The current craze, blaming every one of America's problems on the liberals, is now achieving its intended result. As Bush's policies ravage the country -- a downward spiral that will continue, or even accelerate, as the next administration takes power -- there will be no shortage of pissed-off poor people with guns... and no shortage of targets. When Ann Coulter 'jokes' about killing liberals, she is really speaking to thousands of furious, dejected economic left-behinds who are "in" on the joke.

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Savage Attacks
Posted by: Urstrly on Aug 15, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a Unitarian Universalist, I went to the bookstore to see what Michael Savage, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly (whose books were found in the home of the Knoxville shooter) had to say about liberals.The results of what I found are on my blog:

http://www.progwoman.com/blogs

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» RE: Savage Attacks Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Savage Attacks Posted by: greenthumb
But none has mentioned the fact...
Posted by: chuckjs on Aug 15, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that all these right wing conservative hosts actually are anti-constitution, anti-freedom, and anti-american loving pencil D's.

They call for forced religious beliefs, no right to speak and no right to life if you do not agree with them or are a proven liberal? What happened to freedom of religion, freedom of choice, freedom of speech, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What happened to All men are created equal. Is that now qualified by "except if your liberal"?

What exactly is pro-American, or even remotely sounding like freedom for that matter, about what they say. Sounds rather like a control freak facist attitude to me.

All I keep hearing from them is "Agree with us or die" "execute them for their beliefs" or the best impersenation of an actual live person by a low life with "I have no problem with someone going to the gas chamber" just like the Nazi's did. Way to go whackedout Melanie! The German population was punished for that exact same attitude right after WWII. Naziism at it's finest!

Then there is the fact that most of what these losers say comes under the conspiracy law. After all they are communicating to other people for the purpose of causing a death! It is right in their words. Now only if you had a justice system that actually worked.

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I think you've jumped to a conclusion
Posted by: kegbot1 on Aug 15, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . unsupported (yet) by concrete evidence.

This was the first thing I thought of too: another right winger looking to 'kill some lib'ruls.'

But I don't think the connection has been established yet. I want to know why he singles out the Ark. Dem. party chair but right now I think the jury is still out on motive.

The graffiti he allegedly wrote on the Target wall does not seem like something a right winger would write. Generally they're into jocks and sorority girls.

So let's not jump before all the facts are in. It's just the journalist in me.

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Why are you suprised.
Posted by: fred_53_99 on Aug 15, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a person who has been Black for more than a day ,these fools are nothing new.For alsmost 100 years they terroized black folks in the south,then denied doing it. They Blew up abortion clinics in the name of God. Joining the GOP in droves after the 1965 voting rights act.In 2000 and 2004 since they couldn't convince Black folks to vote for thier type of bull shit , they supressed(took away and obstructed thier right to vote) thier vote. thes are our home grown facists. Thery are racist, fear mongering, sexist, homophobic jerks. Bin ladin(sp) has won bigger than he could have ever hoped . Who knows if the Soviet union fell after 70 years , perhaps neo con night mare will end as well. Yet at what cost in human life and possiblities? I guess ever great nation goes crazy at one time or other , maybe this is our time.

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LeeW
Posted by: LeeW on Aug 15, 2008 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please remove Keith Olbermann from your list of saintly liberals. His remark about someone taking Hillary Clinton into a back room "and only one of them comes out", (a' la' Thuderdome) counts as eliminationist to me.

Of course, it was only a joke, right?

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» RE: LeeW Posted by: Lauren
» RE: LeeW Posted by: Quannah
» RE: LeeW Posted by: Lauren
» RE: LeeW Posted by: greenthumb
» RE: LeeW Posted by: tennismom
» RE: LeeW Posted by: Quannah
» What-EVER Posted by: EinMD
» RE: LeeW Posted by: LionHeart
» RE: LeeW Posted by: Quannah
Crying "foul" is NOT taking action.
Posted by: newsound on Aug 15, 2008 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having left the U.S. a year ago, I am concerned for my friends and family who are still living in what appears to be a fascist plutocracy. From abroad now, I see a downward spiral of morality every single day on the news websites and can't help wondering if anybody is even paying attention. There is a pattern here folks and the election of a "liberal" president will not change anything.

Right now, with a Neocon in the White House, the Caustic Right basically have free reign. But, like an animal backed into a corner, just wait and see what they'll do to someone they consider a threat who is actually elected president. Maybe, they won't even wait for the election. What does it tell you that Jerome Corsi's book is on the best seller list? Crying "foul" and doing nothing will get you nowhere.

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Why Would Conservatives Be Angry at Liberals and Liberalism?
Posted by: Elurby on Aug 15, 2008 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#######
#######

Why would conservatives be angry at
liberals and liberalism? It's as
if leftists are unaware, or haven't
been in the U.S. these past forty
years--as if they're unaware of the
rapid decline in quality of life for
the progeny of British and European
pioneers who conceived and built
this nation;

unaware of the breakdown of family
and morals and civil society;

unaware of the proliferation of
family-destroying music, pornography,
radical feminism, and Hollywood bilge;

unaware of the FORCED integration of
black ghetto culture into white civil
society and resulting destruction of
America’s public education, dumbing-
down every aspect of American society
to accommodate that culture;

unaware of the vulture capitalists
who sell-out their country and
culture to increase the bottom line
by shipping jobs and technology to
Third World countries--to be fair;

unaware of the revolving-door criminal
justice system for rapists, robbers,
murderers, child molesters, muggers,
druggies and white collar criminals
(30 years of it, until conservatism
had reduced that civilization-wrecking,
Left-driven trend in the Nineties);

unaware of the confiscatory taxation
that enslaves the productive to the
needs of the unproductive, driving
this nation towards bankruptcy;

unaware of a tyrannical Congress and
courts hell-bent on destroying white
civil society for the benefit of every
minority ethnic group now invading
America from the Third World, who
receive special financial aid and
legal protection for their efforts;

unaware of nation-destroying multi-
culturalism, multi-racialism and
multilingualism;

unaware of the assassination of Mrs.
Randy Weaver and the mass murder of an
entire church community by Left-driven
federal thugs in Waco;

unaware of just how far from the
Founders' America this federal
government has strayed in setting
up its Marxism-sympathizing and
minority-serving social engineering
programs;

unaware of just how fearful and
hateful the tax-paying and law-
abiding majority of white citizens
has become toward its federal
government;

and unaware that the 1964 Civil
Rights Act was passed on the heated
promise that it would not lead to
quotas and discrimination against
white people (recall that Senator
Henry "Scoop" Jackson had promised
to eat his hat if it ever led to
discrimination against whites); and
unaware that the Immigration Act of
1965 was passed on the promise -
Marxist/Senator Ted Kennedy's stern
promise - that it would not be used
to alter America's racial mix from
its white majority to a non-white
majority.

Yeah, why would white men be angry?

#######
#######

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» Men will not be free until Posted by: Beepath
» RE: Men will not be free until Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: BobKincaid
» BOOHOOHOOHOO!! WAHHHHHH!!! Posted by: dbarber
» What planet did you say you're from? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» They'll never admit it. Posted by: gellero1
» RE: They'll never admit it. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: They'll never admit it. Posted by: Quannah
when "progressives" also call for blood
Posted by: scribbler on Aug 15, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When our own folk say they hope someone is shot, etc., we also need to say stop, even when they want to "off" someone we don't like...

Sometimes the apparent radical calling for blood may not always be as progressive/democracy loving as they claim: When Huey Newton was in jail in New Haven, a news article said someone was revving up a crowd outside the jail to attack the jail, kill cops, free Huey... one demonstrator stood in front of the crowd, shouted that the guy trying to make everyone storm the jail had an undercover agent's identity pin. He stopped people from being herded into violence that would only have helped increase repression. One way to spot the most likely undercover agent or neo-con observer in demonstrations is to listen to the person walking by who rants about being so angry at whatever that they want to blow people up, etc.

But we do it too, although not on talk shows, usually. Even when people sound cool or funny when they joke that they wish someone we don't like would be shot or otherwise incapacitated - and even when we want their respect - we need to be uncool enough to say stop to calls for killing, even when it comes out of the mouths of so-called progressives, democracy advocates, libertarians, radicals, humanists, whatevers. Shooting to death a small town bank guard who was a father and husband also killed off support for the Weather Underground.

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We need to draw the line on hate talk radio and gun misuse.
Posted by: jwverez on Aug 15, 2008 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course the NRA and the KKKonservative media will have none of it since they don't believe in moderation. Besides, America has sunk to TOTALLY AMORAL status. I guess since America has yet to learn what's killing them, let's just keep sucking up all those fossil fuels to the last drop and go nuclear with no regards to safety or the fact that the politicians can and will misuse for war purposes as if wars for oil wasn't bad enough, shooting anyone who's honest and truly helpful and the TN and AR cases have shown, keep poisoning ourselves with petro-manufactured bullshit from Big Pharma all the while outlawing harmless plants, keep choking on over-industrialized corn-fed shit instead of supporting small farmers and local grass fed petroleum free meat and veggies, allow the corporate/religious elites to kill innovations and inventions in science as if 3 decades wasn't enough, and finally keep ourselves divided while China, Saudi Arabia, Japan, etc ... take over ownership of this country all the while the wealthy/corporate elite get richer and "safer" at the expense of our utter ignorance. And when you all are finished "enjoying" and find yourselves broken beyond repair, join the club and try some moderation and reasoning for a change and let's take back the real meaning of freedom.

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» The NRA???? Posted by: gellero1
As a never-married, single, white male...
Posted by: truthteller on Aug 15, 2008 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Every time I hear about one of these things, it sends a shiver down my spine. I consider myself more leftist than liberal. I could see myself ending up being silenced in a way that makes it look like I'm a disaffected kook, instead of a knowledgeable radical. (Don't believe the lies the official history books tell you about John Brown's insanity, for instance.) I have come to believe that the only way to win against the corporate fascists in the long-run is to defeat them militarily - they must die. If that takes a guerilla movement, so be it. Random violence against people on the street accomplishes nothing. The right takes out people like Paul Wellstone "accidentally" (yeah, right).

We need a few leftists with nothing to lose (like a terminal illness) to help the cause and go after the big guys on the right. I am not by nature a violent person. I have never owned a gun, although I know how to use one. I have come to realize that classical liberal ideals are not going to defeat these bastards. The right has no compunction about wanting to totally suppress our rights, and this is not going to be resolved through the traditional "process", which has been completely hijacked and corrupted. We need to go back to the radical ideals of the founders of this Country, and heed Jefferson's call for overthrowing the status quo when it no longer meets the needs of the People.

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» Who are these Bastards?? Posted by: gellero1
» RE: Who are these Bastards?? Posted by: truthteller
A sign of hope for Senator Hope
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 15, 2008 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite efforts by the Pentagon to control photo coverage of Barrack Obama when he visited our troops in Kuwait and Iraq, it was obvious that the GIs loved him.

Now. according to C-SPAN which announced the numbers today, soldiers overseas are donating more money to Obama's campaign than Unfit McCain's -- by a ratio of six to one.

U-RAH!

*Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, lifelong registered Republican and ardent Obama supporter.
Seven Reasons to Vote Against Unfit McCain

*For the benefit of first-time AlterNet visitors.

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Innocents Killed
Posted by: Aged Liberal on Aug 15, 2008 12:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Before there are any more innocent people killed?"
According to neocoms there are NO innocent left wing loonies -- or hadn't you figured that out yet from their rantings?

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a new TV ad?
Posted by: launcher on Aug 15, 2008 12:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those quotes, strung together one after the other, would make a great TV ad for the Democrats.

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Can't they be charged with assault
Posted by: Jackster on Aug 15, 2008 1:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not a lawyer, but can't someone with some guts please step up?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Assault

as·sault(-sôlt)
Law
a. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another.
b. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

And while we are at it, why don't slander and libel laws apply for politians? Why is it okay to issue false statements injurious to a person's reputation if that person is running for an elected office?

Let's attack them exactly where their heart is - in their wallet. Can't slander and libel can be grounds for a civil lawsuit?

One of the most important family values that I ever learned was that it was wrong to lie! So, how come family values are SO important, EXCEPT for the value of honest?

Can a lawyer please respond why the rule of law does not apply to talk show hosts and internet bloggers?

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This is your proof?
Posted by: 6399 on Aug 15, 2008 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I don't think it is a coincidence that within a few weeks, another disturbed individual who had lost his job (at least by his own perception -- Target is denying they terminated him), chose to shoot someone associated with "liberals" and "Democrats."

Do you have one shred of evidence supporting your hypothesis that this man was actually spurred on by venomous talk show hosts? Any evidence to support the premise that he was shot because he was a liberal? So, the right way to go about making a persuasive argument is saying "I don't think it's a coincidence". Pretty thin, Alternet. Pretty damn thin, indeed.

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» RE: This is your proof? Posted by: reelectnoone
Digg this !?
Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 15, 2008 2:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I voted for this on Digg. While there I did a search on Micahel Savage. He appears to be nothing but a hate spewing dirt bag.

Read More...

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Where is the FCC when you need them?
Posted by: reelectnoone on Aug 15, 2008 2:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
True...they can't monitor everything in real time. But we can. When obvious hate is spoken on TV or Radio it is an FCC violation.

You can log in to FCC.GOV and post a complaint as soon as you hear this crap. Perhaps some organization should enlist volunteers to listen to these shows with the FCC Complaint page loaded in their browser. Flood FCC and their advertisers with complaints over and over.

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lynchers thought it was funny to kill Blacks, too
Posted by: deang on Aug 15, 2008 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course the right-wing hate show hosts know they're not kidding when they advocate murdering liberals, gays, dark-skinned people, and whoever else they've targeted. Their followers know they're not joking, too. Just like anti-Black "joking" years ago found its ultimate expression in lynching - murder was the punch line, as it were. I think that the Coulters and Limbaughs would love for these kinds of murders to become a widespread phenomenon.

A lot of right-wingers become police or go into the military, too, where they can kill with impunity. And a lot of cops and soldiers think killing people is funny. There needs to be more discussion about that fact. I think right-wingers should be kept out of the police and military.

It was Reagan's rescinding of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 that made shows like Limbaugh's and Savage's possible. Bringing back the Fairness Doctrine would make it much more difficult for these people to broadcast their murderous hate speech.

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allen
Posted by: pursah on Aug 15, 2008 3:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They CAN monitor hate speech all the time. If they can monitor kiddie porn, they can monitor hate speech.

Elect a liberal president, and he can use Bush's Patriot Act to declare all the right-wing nut hate speakers as Terrorists, which they are, and SHUT THEM DOWN.

Bye the way, these haters need to remember the cosmic law--YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE!

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Comprehending hatred in this country...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Aug 15, 2008 8:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... there's always been someone somewhere to hate!

the largest human bloodbath of the 19th century was fought over it...
the largest human death toll in known times happened in the 20th century because of it!
and there is still people with enough hate in them to see it last a few more times
before we finally get it!

call it what you want...
racism, nationalism, communism ...republicanism...
they all seem to end in a "ISM" are politically motivated and is about the "hatred" of something,
its the glue thats become the Raison d'être!

time to recognize it for what it is... hate!
and long past time to legislate an end to it... hate!

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The Middle of the Road is No Place To Be Free
Posted by: p.ray on Aug 15, 2008 11:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a loooong time social and political activist, life-long registered Independent, and, from its inception, an Alternet (and attendant comments) reader, this article compelled me to break my self-imposed silence. By way of the following anecdote, I decided the time was right to post a response:

In November of 2000, and in what feels like another lifetime, I attended a "Count the Vote" rally in Ann Arbor, MI. I was there to research an article for an on-line Progressive 'zine.

As I stood in the median of Grand River Avenue (to get a better view and in order to do a head count of the participants) a man and woman from "the Right" side of the street approached me. She held a sign that said, "Abort Chads Not Babies" and his read, "Only Republican [sic] Votes Count."

"What the fuck do you think you're doing!?" he bellowed. I said, "Hey, man, I'm just trying to see how many people are here." He replied, "If you're not with US, get the fuck outta here!"

I barely had time to register an "Oh, Shit" moment before he raised his arms and smacked me in the face with the board on which his poster was attached. I was knocked senseless and lay sprawled on my back in the middle of the street.

People from the "Left" ran over to give me aid. Blood gushed from a cut on my eyelid and I was temporarily blinded. A gal wiped my face with her bandanna and a local TV camera man helped me to my feet.

Still stunned, I shouted, "Where did they go!" The perps apparently rushed back to the other side and their cohorts closed ranks and held the pursuing Law Dogs at bay.

For decades before, my "We're All Pink on the Inside" POV served me well. I disavowed my association with the East Lansing chapter of the White Panthers when the dialogue centered on which ammunition we should stockpile (30-30 or 30-06). And, to any supporter of the military-industrial complex, I still say War remains lethal to children and all other living things.

Nonetheless, every time I look in the mirror (which is seldom - I'm too busy and even more arrogant to care), the scar across my left lash-line gives witness to the fact and serves to constantly remind me that, even when unprovoked,

THEY Will TRY To KILL US (however, only if we let them)!!!

By whatever buzz-word you choose to call THEM (i.e. neo-cons, corporatists, fundies, etc.) make no mistake... It's not fear we need fear - it's the reality of violence and damage wrought by power-mad, sociopath bullies and their bigoted, hell-bent on apocalyptic destruction, stooges!

In fact, the rampant divisiveness of our fractionated country and the hatred displayed by our citizenry against each other frightened me long before 9/11 inspired GWB's ensuing trumped-up hegemonic reign of terror!!!

Rational, thoughtful, compassionate people tend to become dismayed and, indeed, alarmed by the rampant stupidity and irrationality displayed by our fellows. Nonetheless, we must force ourselves to remember...

Although we all may be 'equal' in the end, in the interim, the "Power(s) that May Be" has endowed the majority of human beings with average and below capacity. Talk about 'social-engineering' - Dumbing Down the already dumb has proven to be a slam-dunk cake-walk!

POWER Belongs to WE the PEOPLE. I, for one, will Defend Our Right To Be Free by any means necessary - Never again will you see me standing (or kneeling) in the middle of the road!

Phala

PS - Emma Goldman and I share the same birth date (albeit a century apart - the more things change... ;-)

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ATH
Posted by: ATH on Aug 16, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Elurby:
You have been seriously mis-informed about what has lead to our current crisis. The neo-cons love immigrants, because they are able to exploit them by paying them less! If not, why,even after 9/11,were our borders not secured? But they have begun to take an anti-immigration stance now only because they have figured out a way around using immigrants: simply allow corporations to ship American jobs over-seas! These are all neo-con driven laws and actions! You talk about socialism. Why, if certain services that are socialized, like the fire-dept, and are now being privatized, have things gotten worse? This country has been controlled by conservatives for the last 30 years! Why are we now worse off than ever,when "liberals"--which means people who believe in Liberty--have had almost no control? It's President Bush and his regime that have passed laws like The Patriot Act, which, for example, allows the FBI to break into your house,search it, and never tell you they were even there! It's conservatives who have used 9/11 as an excuse to turn this country into a Police State. They want America to be the next China, with 1% of the population filthy rich, while the rest of us do all the work but get none of the benefits! That's their "free market" for you. And they claim to be Christians! yet they are the most un-Christian people one could imagine, obsessed with greed,judging others,caring only about themselves. Jesus was a Liberal, and they killed him too.

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ATH
Posted by: ATH on Aug 16, 2008 9:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberals need to start defending themselves.I believe free speech is more important than trying to reign in these hate-mongers,but I do think it should be against the law to make threats,like several that have been made about Obama, whether they laugh while making them or not.If he were the President, it would be against the law; I think Senators and Presidential hopefulls should have the same protections. There is a difference between expressing one's opinions, or blaming liberals (even though it's the neo-cons who've been in charge, and the press is definitely NOT liberal, but heavily biased towards the neo-cons, due to the fact that these networks are owned by corporations that make a killing off of killing-they're war profiteers)for everything wrong with the country, and making suggestions that someone should do something violent. It's a fine line, but even if they crosssed it, with Mukasey as our A.G. nothing would happen.Just like nothing will happen to Karl Rove. Why the democrats ever signed off on Mukasey's nomination I do not know.
I do know why Nancy Pelosi has declared impeachment "off the table" though. It's because she was briefed about the entire rendition/torture program and signed off on it, and if they brought Bush and Cheney down, they'd take her with them. It took me awhile to figure it out; it puzzled me for a long time. But that's the reason.
How intelligent people can't see what a massive cover-up was done to hide whatever truly took place on 9/11, I still haven't figured out.
That's what needs to be exposed. It is the event that has allowed this administration to pass laws that undermine our Constitution and especially American Civil Liberties as guaranteed in the Bill of Rights,which has been eviserated.Upon re-entry into the U.S., American citizens can be made to turn over any kind of information storage device to H.S. to copy all your personal and business files-for no reason they need to give.4th amendment-gone.
Liberals need to stop pressing for gun control and start arming themselves; grow a spine, because these people can't be reasoned with. Personally, I will not do so,because I have no desire to live in such a world. But for those with children,or who simply want to survive, either get out while you can, prepare to be a slave, or prepare to fight.

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ATH
Posted by: ATH on Aug 16, 2008 10:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One final thing, to put the neo-cons constant fear mongering about terrorism in perspective:
Each year, more people die in car accidents, in the U.S. alone, than die from ALL of international terrorism combined!
Yes, real terrorism exists, and is an ugly, abhorrent thing. However, we must never believe that it is more "moral" to kill with shiny missiles and high-tech weapons than it is to kill with home-made bombs.
One man's terrorist is another man's "freedom fighter." When we trained Osama bin Laden and flooded Afganistan with high-tech weapons, the Mujahadeen (which was the foundation of al-qaeda) were "freedom fighters"--an oppressed people using whatever they could to defend themselves against a far more sophisticated military force, until we helped them out with better weapons.
Now, they are terrorists. Yet, after 9/11 when all planes were grounded, except for a few military planes, the one flight that did take place was one that moved the entire bin Laden family, who have always been close allies with both Presidents Bush, out of the United States. They were not even subjected to polite questions, let alone interrogated.
Strange, huh? Kinda like 99% of the steel from the WTC buildings--including WTC 7, which was not hit by anything, yet still collapsed, and with the obvious foreknowledge of a great number of police, reporters, etc--which could have been used to determine the exact cause for the first 3 steel-framed buildings in history to have ever collapsed, was shipped all the way to China and melted down--against Federal laws prohibiting the disturbance of what was not only a Federal crime scene, but the scene of the largest mass-murder in U.S. history. And Guiliani, being a former prosecutor, knew this well, and had to have been given a green light from the very top to take such action.
Also, why hasn't Congress subpeoned the name of the individual who placed "put" options on United and American airlines, earning that individual 2.5 million dollars, yet who has not collected the money?

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ATH
Posted by: ATH on Aug 16, 2008 10:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, if you wonder where I got my statistics, it was from the National Security Council.

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so when are progressives gonna give up their anti-gun fetish
Posted by: jimsenter on Aug 17, 2008 10:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and learn how to defend ourselves? Even Gandhi, in discussing proper responses to Nazi Germany, recognized that nonviolence only works when you have a principled opponent who can respond to the call the conscience represented by nonviolent resistance. Do we need more proof that in the case of the right wing nuts we are not dealing with principled opponents? When I was raped I decided that I would never let that happen to me again. I will do what it takes to see to it that if someone is gonna get hurt, it won't be me. I have no problem with that.

Never start a fight, but make sure you're the one to end it. Sounds like good advice to me.

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» Gun-toting Progressives Posted by: BobNoxious
It's Opposite Day Everyday with Neocons
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Aug 17, 2008 2:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You all remember the game of Opposite Day from grade school, right?

Well Opposite Day is the name of the game from the very start with respect to Republican politics. Karl Rove perfected it with the Bush Regime.

Opposite Day with respect to Republicans can be seen at this VERY MOMENT in the McCain campaign. Take everything that's good about Obama and TURN IT AROUND. Instead of Obama being an obvious Christian - NO - he's a 'secret Muslim'. Instead of Obama's call for change - which is extremely popular by a populace ACHING for something different. Well, just tell everyone that it's not really popular - he's simply a celebrity - an air-headed celebrity. See how easy it is? Ted Haggard? He's not gay. He's really straight. Ted Stevens? He's not a senile idiot - he's 'good for Alaska'. Jesse Helms? He wasn't a right wing bigot. He was misunderstood by Yankees.

In the Republican black/white mythological bubble they live in, everything YOU and I know to be right is despised by them. I defy you to produce evidence of the opposite of THAT!

This methodology they use has been very effective with our brain-damaged society. We have some of the world's lowest test scores, are generally an anti-science population, have rampant alcoholism, have an excessive reliance on religious beliefs instead of rational thought, and are we're lazy. After all, name the FATTEST nation on the planet.

It all fits together. That's how you can tell what they really think! Take ANYTHING they say, turn it around, and that's what's so.

Example: McCain is more patriotic than Obama. Really? Just check McCain's record on 'patriotic' issues. There are your facts.

Example: McCain has more experience than Obama. That makes him more likely to be a tough leader. Really? Check his record on leadership. There is your reality. Oh, and a man who regularly forgets the names of nations, leaders and his very own voting record is not a leader. He is SENILE.

The list is endless. Just remember, all you have to do is know that whatever a right-wing talking head says, reality is the OPPOSITE of what that person said.

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Hate Speech Can't Hold The Blame Here
Posted by: ElleJay on Aug 17, 2008 3:07 PM   
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As someone who lives close to this situation, I can't agree that hate speech caused this. Something you may not be aware of is the shooter ALSO went into the Arkansas Baptist Convention building, which is a Southern Baptist (and VERY conservative) organization.

The full story, which has been reported in most Central Arkansas news outlets, seems to point to a man who had a psychotic break. He was fired by Target for writing statements such as "This hall is too ***** narrrow" and "Target is run by frat boys and sorority wh***."Also, the shooter had purchased several cars from Mr G's car dealership. There were no clear political motivations.

While I agree that the comments of so called "Conservative Talking Heads" are not only vile, but harmful, I just do not see this as an incident that was caused by such.

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We Make A Big Mistake
Posted by: Dadster3 on Aug 18, 2008 7:06 AM   
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when we equate Savage, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter and those like them with conservatives. They are not. They are neo-conservatives. They are facists. When the Left equates them with conservatism we play right into their hands by granting them a legitamacy that they do not deserve.

This neo-con movement is, in my opinion, perhaps the greatest internal threat this country has faced since its founding. Every day that responsible people on both sides of the isle let them serve up without protest more poison in the guise of patriotism and religion; every day that we allow them to slander progressive ideals of fairness and equality for all without answering them; every time we let them twist Good into Evil without challenge, we let them drive another nail in our collective coffin.

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Lilly
Posted by: Lilly on Aug 18, 2008 12:39 PM   
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From much hanging out on conservative websites I have learned the drill, which goes something like this: 1) Conservatives speak in what can only be called hate speech, sometimes freely inciting to murder. 2) This is protested, either by another poster's comment, an attempt to pass or enforce a hate speech law, the suggestion of a Fairness Doctrine, etc.. 3) The original speaker then responds that either a) You can't take a joke, we are just having fun, liberals don't have a sense of humor and/or b) a counter-protest is made in the name of free speech, ie, This was a free country until the liberals came along and now I'm not even allowed to call somebody a &^$$#(*))*& N----- or a *%$#@&0 F----- and suggest that he should be dragged out of his home at midnight, tied by a rope to a moving pickup truck, and dragged through the streets. I thought this was supposed to be America.

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Fair and Balanced?
Posted by: BobNoxious on Aug 18, 2008 1:34 PM   
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If any Leftie talk show pundits were calling for the murders of Neo-Cons, they'd all be in Gitmo.
But Righties call for the general public to kill people they don't like, and its OK!

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Does anyone doubt for a second
Posted by: bettyn on Aug 18, 2008 1:35 PM   
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that the Bush family and their fellow corporate pigs aren't encouraging these rightwingers and their violent HATESPEEECH? I don't...not one bit.
They're being paid BIG BUCKS to hound anyone who disagrees with them to death. If some fruitcake kills a bunch of people, so be it. They think the rest of us are SUBHUMAN CANNONFODDER anyway!

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Yours are wise words.
Posted by: J_Mo on Aug 19, 2008 1:20 PM   
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I really dislike guns personally, but I wholeheartedly support the 2nd Amendment. Why? Well, I think this article and the ensuing comments have made it pretty clear why.

I used to be a very good archer, and I've been considering taking it back up. I collect blades of all sorts...and...I'm even considering learning to shoot. These are scary times we are living in!

I consider myself a pacifist, and I abhor violence, especially violence against innocents. I have come to recognize more and more, however, that waving flowers and preaching love does not work with those incapable of FEELING love or UNDERSTANDING THE BEAUTY of flowers.

Great comments from my fellow Progressives!

Blessings!

~J-Mo

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Preventing random shootings without prejudice
Posted by: Tim V on Sep 9, 2008 7:08 AM   
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One thing is that the media should avoid naming mass killers as much as possible to avoid any contribution to their fame (Ex. say 'The TN Church Gunman' instead of using the name of this creep.)

Secondly, public messages should be posted encouraging those thinking of doing random violence to seek help and that suggest alternatives to violence.

People should also be careful when using terms like 'lunatic', 'insane' and 'nut case': A lot of the mentally ill are good people who are just having a hard time psychologically. Let's remember that the Americans With Disabilities Act also outlaws discrimination against the psychiatrically disabled (and rightfully so, in my opinion.)

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