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Working Families Vote 2008

Christian Lunatics Issue Death Threats Over a Cracker

Posted by PZ Myers, Pharyngula at 9:32 AM on July 12, 2008.


Unlike those nutty Muslims who are always taking offense over cartoons, these people have serious grievances.
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Editor's note: University of Minnesota biologist PZ Myers posted this item on his blog last week. Since then, he's received deaths threats, been the target of a campaign to have him fired and was cited as a justification for increasing security at the upcoming GOP convention in Minneapolis.

There are days when it is agony to read the news, because people are so goddamned stupid. Petty and stupid. Hateful and stupid. Just plain stupid. And nothing makes them stupider than religion.



Here's a story that will destroy your hopes for a reasonable humanity.


Webster Cook says he smuggled a Eucharist, a small bread wafer that to Catholics symbolic of the Body of Christ after a priest blesses it, out of mass, didn't eat it as he was supposed to do, but instead walked with it.

This isn't the stupid part yet. He walked off with a cracker that was put in his mouth, and people in the church fought with him to get it back. It is just a cracker!

Catholics worldwide became furious.

Would you believe this isn't hyperbole? People around the world are actually extremely angry about this — Webster Cook has been sent death threats over his cracker. Those are just kooks, you might say, but here is the considered, measured response of the local diocese:


"We don't know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was," said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. "However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it."

We just expect the University to take this seriously," she added "To send a message to not just Mr. Cook but the whole community that this kind of really complete sacrilege will not be tolerated."

Wait, what? Holding a cracker hostage is now a hate crime? The murder of Matthew Shephard was a hate crime. The murder of James Byrd Jr. was a hate crime. This is a goddamned cracker. Can you possibly diminish the abuse of real human beings any further?



Well, you could have a priest compare this event to a kidnapping.

"It is hurtful," said Father Migeul Gonzalez with the Diocese. "Imagine if they kidnapped somebody and you make a plea for that individual to please return that loved one to the family."

Gonzalez said the Diocese is willing to meet with Cook and help him understand the importance of the Eucharist in hopes of him returning it. The Diocese is dispatching a nun to UCF's campus to oversee the next mass, protect the Eucharist and in hopes Cook will return it.

I like the idea of sending a scary nun to guard the ceremony at the next mass. But even better…let's send Webster Cook to hell!

Gonzalez said intentionally abusing the Eucharist is classified as a mortal sin in the Catholic church, the most severe possible. If it's not returned, the community of faith will have to ask for forgiveness.

"We have to make acts of reparation," Gonzalez said. "The whole community is going to turn to prayer. We'll ask the Lord for pardon, forgiveness, peace, not only for the whole community affected by it, but also for [Cook], we offer prayers for him as well."

Get some perspective, man. IT'S A CRACKER.



And of course, Bill Donohue is outraged (I know, Donohue is going to die of apoplexy someday when a gnat violates his oatmeal, so this isn't saying much).

For a student to disrupt Mass by taking the Body of Christ hostage--regardless of the alleged nature of his grievance--is beyond hate speech. That is why the UCF administration needs to act swiftly and decisively in seeing that justice is done. All options should be on the table, including expulsion.

Oh, beyond hate speech. Where does this fit on the Shoah scale, Bill? It shouldn't even register, but here is Wild-Eyed Bill the Offended calling for the expulsion of a student…for not swallowing a cracker.



Would you believe that the mealy-mouthed president of the university, John Hitt, is avoiding defending his student is instead playing up the importance of the Catholic church to the university? Of course you would. That's what university presidents do. Bugger the students, keep the donors and the state reps happy.



Unfortunately, Webster Cook has now returned the cracker. Why?

Webster just wants all of this to go away. Especially now that he feels his life is in danger.

That's right. Crazy Christian fanatics right here in our own country have been threatening to kill a young man over a cracker. This is insane. These people are demented fuckwits. And Cook is not out of the fire yet — that Fox News story ends with an open incitement to cause him further misery.

University officials said, that as for right now, Webster Cook is not in trouble. If anyone or any group wants to file a formal complaint with the University through the student judicial system, they can. If that happens, Webster will go through a hearing either in front of an administrative panel or a panel of his peers.

Got that? If you don't like what Webster Cook did, all you have to do is complain to the university, and they will do the dirty work for you of making his college experience miserable. And don't assume the university would support Cook; the college is now having armed university police officers standing guard during mass.



I find this all utterly unbelievable. It's like Dark Age superstition and malice, all thriving with the endorsement of secular institutions here in 21st century America. It is a culture of deluded lunatics calling the shots and making human beings dance to their mythical bunkum.



So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address.



Just wait. Now there'll be a team of Jesuits assigned to rifle through my mail every day.

Digg!

Tagged as: religion, silliness

PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris. He runs the science blog, Pharyngula.


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And You Wonder WHY there are Reagan Republicans
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JSquercia on Jul 12, 2008 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sorry but as a Catholic I take great offense in your referring to the Host as just a cracker . To Catholcs it IS the Body Christ . Now you might NOT believe that and I am PERFECTLY fine with That but your obvious condescending attitude towards Catholics might have some reason that Catholics deserted the Liberal cause To Become Republicans in spite of the fact that economcally they were being sold out.
Sadly the very people who preach tolerance for other lifestyles have so little of it themselves

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Get some perspective. Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Get some perspective. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Get some perspective. Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
» RE: I'd say... Posted by: UnEasyOne
» Hate speech Posted by: andabottleof_rum
Disrespectful
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fluffmuffinmom on Jul 12, 2008 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an ATHIEST I find it disrespectful that you refer to the communion wafer as "just a cracker" over and over again. While I personally don't believe that it is the actual body of Christ, I understand that millions of Catholics do hold that belief.

To make light of such a sacred cultural belief in such a disrespectful way is truly offensive - and AlterNet should be ashamed of publishing this piece of crap. Why not go ahead and publish the Dutch cartoons of Muhammed that Muslims found so offensive a couple of years ago? (Muslims believe that it is sacrilige to depict their Prophet in art.) After all...those cartoons are just silly drawings - pen and paper, nothing more.

Apparently it is politically incorrect to bash some religious beliefs but not others?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Disrespectful Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Disrespectful Posted by: Forrest for the Trees
» RE: Disrespectful Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Disrespectful Posted by: LindaB
» RE: Disrespectful Posted by: jallegro
» thanks Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
» RE: Bashing Religious Beliefs Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Disrespectful Posted by: herronsmith
» RE: Disrespectful Posted by: john mont
Who's disrespectful, hmmmm?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: WyrdSister on Jul 12, 2008 11:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Catholic Church is offended. Oh no.

I am offended that the Church took ALL of my Sacred days and made them their own...so, if you want the damn cracker back...how about returning the christmas tree, the advent wreath, candy canes or how about the Easter Bunny along with the colored eggs.

You're offended...give me a fucking break.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Right On Sister! Posted by: maddasein
» RE: ight On Sister! Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Who's disrespectful, hmmmm? Posted by: oregoncharles
Religious freedom, yes, imposition - and illegal acts - no
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ZPaul on Jul 12, 2008 11:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If people, whether religious or non-religious, do or advocate anything illegal, make death threats, etc., that's wrong. However, if you are a Catholic, you must abide by the rules of your religion, if you want to continue being a Catholic. I believe in respecting religions as long as those religions do not impose their beliefs on others who do not share those beliefs, especially through the government.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

as someone who grew up catholic...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lexicon on Jul 12, 2008 11:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am perplexed by this story.


Besides the predeliction for choosing ex-nazis for pope, and maybe the whole "let's subject our priests to such complete sexual repression that some of them snap in the presence of young boys" thing...

besides those things, the Catholic faith is, for the most part, one of the most "easy-going" about this kind of stuff.

Communion is a personal covenant between one's self, and jesus. It is nothing about the church. If you choose to make light of that covenant, well, that's your problem, isn't it?

OF all of them, Catholicism is a "private" faith...confession is private. prayer is private. hypocrisy is private.

So, I'm leaning toward...this is a little pocket of incestual idiots who haven't quite got a sharp knive among them all.

lexicon

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Catholics are Medieval
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Freticat on Jul 12, 2008 12:35 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was raised Catholic, and got so tired of having other people tell me what I could or could not believe got tiresome. Spiritually and intelectually, I left it by thime my age reacched double digits. My experience is that many Catholics yearn to return to the Dark Ages.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Catholics are Medieval Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Catholics are Medieval Posted by: riotoustanpdx
How come no one...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ianfan on Jul 12, 2008 1:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is mentioning the obvious parallel to muslim outrage over Mohammed cartoons? So if this is outrageous to you, how did you feel about that one when it happened?

What is sacrilege to a religion or person varies from religion to religion and person to person. Do people honestly think they have a valid opinion on this that one of these situations is a more valid complaint than another simply because it deals with their religion?

There is a difference between faith and truth. Faith trumps truth and does not require any proof. Duh...it's faith.

In our dealings with other people in society, truth is what matters. Feel free to be personally offended when someone commits what you think is sacrilege, but if you act on that or think that person should be legally acted on in some way (short of their sacrilege being actually illegal that is), then you are nuts.

If you believe your cell phones and flu shots work, and that airplanes fly all without the aid of magic, then in this case, yes this is just a cracker we are talking about. That is the truth of the matter.

Have all the faith you want that it is actually the body of Christ, but for his sake, don't think you have a valid POV thinking actions should be taken against this guy or that this is a hate crime or any other kind of crime.

Unless you want him arressed and charged with petty theft for stealing a cracker...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: How come no one... Posted by: jmhb
» RE: How come no one... Posted by: oregoncharles
Nut-Flavored Crackers
[Report this comment]
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jul 12, 2008 1:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Man, keep offending the easily offended! One good thing to come out of this, hopefully: the Republicans will be forced to spend even more big bucks on their convention!
(Although I am a little confused as to why exactly the cracker controversy leads to a "need" to improve security in Minnesota.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I'm offended too
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Cwood on Jul 12, 2008 2:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That our society tolerates this kind of thing. Death threats for stealing a cracker that a load of crazy people think is the body of a mythical being who supposedly died two thousand years ago.

Hey catholic church, once you've properly made up for the murders of untold thousands of women during the witch trials, and so many more lives during the inquisitions and crusades, as well as the sexual abuse of children by your clerics AND the covering up of that abuse by the church heirarchy, and the indirect spreading of HIV by preaching against condom use in developing nations, and finally your long history of inciting hate and violence...once you've made amends for all that, then you can start getting offended at things. Until then, all we should be hearing out of you is "we're sorry."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I'm offended too Posted by: moenbailey
» RE: I'm offended too Posted by: LindaB
» RE: I'm offended too Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I'm offended too Posted by: oregoncharles
REALITY CHECK
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BobNoxious on Jul 12, 2008 3:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regardless of religious beliefs, in the cold, harsh light of REALITY, even after being blessed, the Eucharist is just a cracker.
The Koran is just a book.
A Yamaka is just a hat.

Deal with it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: ALITY CHECK Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ALITY CHECK Posted by: kimbari
» RE: ALITY CHECK Posted by: zipoka
RE: think they haven't ever put those crackers in their soup?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lexicon on Jul 12, 2008 8:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put one in your soup??

PUT ONE IN YOUR SOUP?????


you've obviously never actually tasted one, have you?


Putting a eucharist wafer in one's soup would, er...not improve the soup.


lexicon

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Hey, this is Great!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: libertybill on Jul 12, 2008 9:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A really vigorous discourse on the taboo subject of RELIGION! How refreshing!

From reading all of the comments it is obvious everyone has strong opinions.

Seems most have remembered what they have been told in Sunday school but I can’t help wondering if some contemporary thought wouldn’t be helpful.

For those who can read and their brain hasn’t been embalmed in some religious dogma a more interesting dialog can be had after reading Sam Harris’ book, A Letter to a Christian Nation. It’s a small book and can be read in a couple of hours and can be purchased from amazon.com.

The subject of RELIGION is even more important than the subject of TERRORISM or maybe it’s the same thing.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hey, this is Great!! Posted by: particle
so...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jul 12, 2008 9:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what was the guy's motivation for taking it anyway?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: so... Posted by: particle
» RE: so... Posted by: kimbari
Disproportionate Outrage
[Report this comment]
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Jul 12, 2008 10:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, a lot of folks haven't accepted living in a pluralistic, secular society, even though it allows them to freely practice their minority faith. They believe that the host is literally the body of Christ; too bad it wasn't submitted to the biology lab for analysis.

The same people are rarely bothered by massive child molestation, wholesale slaughter of civilians, torture and other atrocities which are, according to their own theology, committed against people created in God's image. The student's stunt may have been disrespectful, but is it reasonable to become so much more outraged over it than atrocities of war?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Disproportionate Outrage Posted by: El Hombre Malo
So full of morons...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Jul 12, 2008 10:36 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an unbaptized atheist raised in a mainly catholic country and schooled in a catholic school, I can only say I am revolted.

I have been fighting the influence of religion on society ever since I've been able to. I vote, write, go on parade and sign whatever petition I have to, to keep religion out of the life of anyone who doesnt want it. And that means Catholic church, for the most part.

...And I never felt I needed to disrespect their beliefs or their rites.

While reading the article I could even understand why Cook smuggled it. Everyone's done a stupid thing, thats it. But Myers angle was vile.

No matter what the reaction from the church or congregation was... the whole article angle is to ridiculize catholic beliefs and rites, not only showing cheap schoolyard disrespect but also ignorance. Mr.Myers, if you fail to understand the importance of symbols in people's cosmogony, dont write about them.

And you are so utterly arrogant as to threaten to go beyond W.Cook and desecrate that symbol, a bravado gesture against...who? Against the clergy? Against the Pope?

...or against the millions of people to whom that symbol is important and sacred but to who you obviously feel so superior to? Who the fuck do you think you are?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: So full of morons... Posted by: goeswithness
» RE: So full of morons... Posted by: herronsmith
» RE: So full of morons... Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» here here! Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
One hand, two hands, three hands a dollar
[Report this comment]
Posted by: talkville on Jul 13, 2008 12:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the one hand, there is an issue of dignified respect, civility and overall tolerance regarding social relations in a constitutional country such as ours -- 300 million people live here.

On another hand, there are issues of proportion, myopia and dystopia, and overall truly bi-polar and schizoid-type reactions which are more and more frequent, sometimes prompted by issues such as this, but mostly prompted by scouring the society with the finest honed casuistic comb imaginable for any quark or charm or proton that is 'against religion' (read: Enemy is: 'secular humanism', science, 'relativism', you name it there's a Straw Man there to be constructed -- paranoids and schizoids do these things quite often). And all these pseudo-events and cries of persecution and truly fanatic and bizarre and utterly fantastic, obsessive to the point of absurdity is carried out by these 'foot-soldiers' of that more somber, solemn and dignified Madmen who are at the top.

The term Catholic can also be expressed with a small 'c' and it indicates UNIVERSALITY, application, without regard to time or space or circumstance to ALL and without recourse to question -- e.g. 'law'. When one or another individual, group or society makes a claim and makes attempts to impose a very particular, singular and idiosyncratic view and interpretation of the world, both physical and ethical upon ALL, by 'judicial reform', 'legal reform', 'reform' of all kinds, 'values debates', 'culture-wars' and over-all Kulturkampf of a 'no-holds-barred' tenor; well, then, what are Others to do? What does the 'secular humanist' do? what does the scientist do? what does the empiricist do? what do other religions do?

Their answer: Madness; All or Nothing; Full and Total War.

The phenomenon of 'death threats' emanating from such events is worthy of the most considered thinking regarding all this. We must remember that over such 'trifles' as this immensely destructive and devastatating wars have been launched, involving the most animalic behaviors conceivable by humans upon other humans. Many times, all it takes is one events to cross the Rubicon, to reach the Tipping Point.

And on many other hands, only humans are here involved and always have been. Interpretations and perspectives will vary, but proving otherwise inevitably leads to futility and worse. Fascist Kulturkampf needs to stand down; all war is civil war. Madness is not restricted to those of the lower orders of society. And madmen can make friends. And madmen with power are not the most salubrious answer to human dilemmas and advancement. Dogma wants to return; it is too late, especially in those Universal levels of discussions about the human condition.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

OK, where's the hate part of the "hate crime?"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Miki on Jul 13, 2008 12:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last I checked, when someone gives you something, freely, it's YOURS.

As a representation of the body of Christ, wouldn't carrying the Eucharist be better than say, a WWJD bracelet?

I've been looking around for the actual story, and it doesn't seem like there was any desecration. He walked with it. As a former Catholic, I say so what?

So now they put armed guards at this university church, who are going to do what? Shoot someone who takes something that was freely given, but does not follow the script? Make sure I genuflect properly? Make sure I stick some green in the collection plate and not just some change? Make sure I don't make paper airplanes and origami frogs out of the church bulletin? Make sure I properly offer a sign a peace? I suggest that the Catholic Church, and many other Churches would be better off focusing on peace.

God save us from your followers.

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The United States is thoroughly balkanized.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: andabottleof_rum on Jul 13, 2008 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both the political Right and Left are to blame, as both sides enjoy baiting groups of people that disgust them, thus satisfying their innate tribalistic urges.

I don't lament this turn of events, however. It might speed the decay of this empire by inciting internal conflict. Already the inability of factions to agree on anything important has crippled this country's ability to reform itself, thus rendering it a dinosaur with little hope for the future.

May this trend continue and grow worse. The rest of the world will be better off because of our own problems.

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PZ Myers Needs to Get Some Class.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: grumble-bum on Jul 13, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live here in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota, so I get to be exposed to Myers' increasingly crude pontifications on a variety of admittedly silly aspects of religious expression on a frequent basis. Well, actually just the silly things that purported Christians (of both the Mega-Church & Catholic varieties) do & say. If he's ever applied his schoolyard wit to any other organized Religion, or even a less dogmatic strain of Christianity, I certainly haven't seen it.

Frankly, the guy is increasingly becoming an embarrassment. It seems as though he's really warmed to being the center of attention in these sorts of cultural debates, to the extent that he'd like the debate to be about him.

While I've occasionally giggled along with, & sometimes even agreed with his pieces, the willfully ignorant, hateful, & juvenile tone of this article has pushed me rather firmly into the "Shut the Hell Up, Myers, Or Get Some Class" camp.

So, Myers is now going to gleefully, publicly desecrate an object that plays an important part in the religious rites of millions of people. What's the plan, "PZ" (gawd, that's annoying)? Cheese Whiz? Suppository?

Myers' attempted ascendancy to the exalted ranks of fellow self-worshiping New Atheist Superstars such as Harris & Dawkins began refreshingly enough, & his somewhat gonzo approach to defending the actual subject of his expertise from Right Religious pressure was, I imagine, a welcome one. Certainly a needed one, in this age of ID/Creationism. But one has to wonder if he finds much time to actually teach, you know, Biology, when he's apparently better occupied taking cheap shots at religious beliefs & doing so with the mouth of a sailor (or line cook). Really, I'm fairly amazed he's kept his university job, what with all the deliberate controversy entanglement & unprofessional, potty-mouthed rants.

Well, you go, Mr. Baddass. I just hope Myers practices proper scientific method & also needlessly desecrates other major religious symbols. Maybe use a yarmulke as a diaphragm or make a charming prayer-rug tea cozy.

I'd say it's about time for thoughtful Atheists, Agnostics & supporters of the non-dogmatic, rationality-inclined spiritual bent (such as myself) to kick this guy to the curb.

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So...
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Jul 13, 2008 10:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
which part of the "Body of Christ" did this cracker come from? HMMMM???

jdfu!

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» Which part? Hmmm . . . Posted by: meadowlake59
IGNORANCE AT BEST
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 13, 2008 10:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no other religion that is freely bashed with no consequences. Everyone else has to be "respected". Dirty old men raping 14 years olds are protected by their rights under the Consitution. There was nothing about this article that informed or enlightened. Someone is enjoying their right to free speech. Congratulations! Which religion do you plan to trash in your nest column. I wouldn't want to miss it. ANNA

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» No kidding! Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
Ancient Cannibal Cult
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Jul 13, 2008 12:58 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL! Catholics want all of us to 'respect' their cannibal cult.

Really.

Does that mean I also must respect priests diddling little boys, too? How about the Pope wearing red Gucci shoes? How about respect for their 'department of exorcism'? How about the fact that they ripped off as many pagan cults as they could to pull those people into their own little cannibal cult.

Please remember that we all (surprise: you too) live in the 21st century. We no longer respect cults or cannibals.

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Christian Lunatics Issue Death Threats Over a Cracker
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Posted by: martron3000 on Jul 14, 2008 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would have held that cracker for ransom in exchange for some of those priceless works of art The Vatican has gotten hidden in their secret vaults.

Though, personally, I prefer a nice Ritz cracker.

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Behold!!! Theeeeeeeee Cracker! Behold!
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Posted by: Dak on Jul 14, 2008 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the looks of it, it ain't the best cracker on earth either. Can't you have a better cracker than that? At least the image of the Cross on it or somethin'?!
Jeezzzz, if you're gonna tout the "Body of Christ," at least offer a respectable wafer!
Yikes! and THIS is a newsworthy story...?!
Dak!

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What Was Cook's Motive?
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Posted by: Dadster3 on Jul 14, 2008 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So why did Cook smuggle the wafer out of the service in the first place? Why did he partake of the ritual if didn't plan to go through with it?

I agree that death threats are unacceptable but what motivated Cook--apparently an educated if not particularly sensitive man--to do this?

You don't agree with someone's religious dogma? Fine. So leave them alone already. It is/was no skin off of Cook's nose what anyone else believes, so why go out of one's way to deliberately poke them in the eye?

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» RE: What Was Cook's Motive? Posted by: kww355
Wow, this brought out all the Religious Right Wingnuts.
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Posted by: james2021 on Jul 14, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Equal to the cartoons of Mohammed.

As George Carlin would say, " Keep thy religion to youself."

Best Advice on earth.

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Otto .
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Posted by: otto on Jul 14, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the author was being disrespectful and flippant, referring to the host as a cracker. And the person involved should have respected the Catholic traditional beliefs more. Life is full of mysteries, and the view that it is "just a cracker" is as much a belief as the view that it isn't. But I agree that the reactions on people's parts were also excessive. I follow the belief that there is a "real presence" of some kind in the host, but I also believe that Jesus can take care of himself and doesn't need body guards or death threats to others.

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Synbolic....Symbolic.....Symbolic
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Posted by: Babygoat on Jul 14, 2008 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wafer symbolizes the body of Christ. It is not the body of Christ! Get over it!

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» RE: Synbolic....Symbolic.....Symbolic Posted by: El Hombre Malo
STEVIE WONDER
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Posted by: bc430 on Jul 14, 2008 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
probably said it as well as it ever will be stated. Listen to the lyrics of his song "SUPERSTITIOUS"

Some people believe in LUCK.
Some people believe if a black cat crosses your physical path you will have something called bad LUCK.

Coming from an inland community in the U.S. seafood didn't loom large in our diet. As a result I grew up without developing a fondness for things fishy. Due to Roman Catholic political clout on Fridays for school lunch and even in the U.S. Military if you didn't eat fish....oh well. Many, many of us endured that second class treatment for many many years. And now another superstition is being upheld as sent to us at 6:am this morning by the inventor of the sun, and maker of the wetness of water. And by God there had better not be a contrary opinion. Say What? A bread product made by humans, handled and "blessed" and thereby made HOLY by humans who've been forbidden to have 'legal' sexual intercourse with a consenting adult human, as occurs in marriage, by some more ancient humans, becomes the body of God's imaculately conceived son in my unholy mouth. Thats what this is all about. Wow! With all due respect. When you believe in things you don't understand - you suffer. C'mon people.

Unless I missed something the greatest outrage that this article has generated comes from those who identify themselves as Catholic. (universal) You believe the host is the host because when you were a child someone you trusted and believed to have authority told you to call this object the host and to believe it to be HOLY. In your mouth this is Jesus. I got that, and I love you.

OK, now suppose I was told that something else blessed by the holy father became the host when it came in contact with my mouth. Whatever? In my mouth it's JESUS. Do you honestly and thoughtfully with an adult brain believe that God would excommunicate either of us for out growing our childhood catechism?

No wonder we are getting our ass handed to us abroad and faceing economic depression here at home.

The people who set these superstitions in motion have been dead for centuries. Why are we yet devouring each other over what they, as deep thinkers worthy of following, surely would not still be clinging to in 2008?

Do you walk under ladders? My work life involved building construction....I had to.

THINK. LOVE. LIVE LONG. PROSPER.

PEACE.

BC.

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» RE: STEVIE WONDER Posted by: herronsmith
» RE: STEVIE WONDER Posted by: El Hombre Malo
Deb
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Posted by: debmcd on Jul 14, 2008 9:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just asinine. Please. This is one reason I just don't believe in organised religion. It always becomes fanatical. The religion becomes more important than the individual. People lose all perspective when they become religious.

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Yet another reason....
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Posted by: manderson on Jul 14, 2008 10:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...why I do not believe in any codified religion, ESPECIALLY the Abrahamic ones. Damn crazy...

Robert A.Heinlein said "History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it."

Too bad "fiddling with it" includes killing people who don't want to learn to fiddle your tune...

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Laugh or Cry
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Posted by: curiousdwk on Jul 14, 2008 12:18 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know if I should laugh or cry at this article. But I do know I should cry at the pathetic responses to the article. Why are so many people saying that the Church is justified in being so way out of bounds in its reaction? Have we lost all sensibilities?

Okay, to some it is more than a cracker. But they shouldn't expect others to accept their perverted superstitions. To think he deserves death threats, or expulsion. If they are upset, let them pray by themselves to have god help them get over it. But don't carry it to the point where their actions are harmful to another individual who doesn't believe in the sanctity of the cracker.

I agree with the author that maybe they need to be confronted with different types of "desecrations" until they realize that it is "only a cracker" to non-believers, and it is more than a cracker ONLY to the superstitious.

Get over it.

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» RE: Laugh or Cry Posted by: El Hombre Malo
Amen
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Posted by: frank69 on Jul 14, 2008 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Jesus covered these kind of situations very well: "Do unto Me as You Would Do to the Least of My Brothers."
Or some words like that.
Death threats? Come on folks! Who would Jesus threaten?

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Astrotheology - The Real Origin of the Mythical Jesus
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Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jul 14, 2008 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was no actual real life Jesus, he is a combination of other religious belief systems. He was a Sun God.

The resurrection represents the resurrection of the sun as it halts its lowered movement from Dec 22 - 24th and begins its rise higher and higher in the sky afterwards.

The resurrection is celebrated in spring because that is when finally there is more daylight than darkness.


There is no God. If he existed he could easily come down and prove his existence to each and every doubter.


The truth is religion is a system of control. People worshiping one god are easier to control than different people worshiping many different gods.


Fuck Catholicism, stop being puppets.


The Catholic Church destroyed so much knowledge and wisdom that had existed for aeons on this world during what we call the Dark Ages.

They destroyed everything that didn't fit in with their bullshit religion.


The religious want tolerance of their beliefs, fuck tolerance of ignorance. Religion is ignorance. A sacred cow people are not supposed to cross.

Why do people get so defensive about their religious beliefs? Because deep down they know they are bullshit. They lack the courage though to admit it to themselves and throw off this mental slavery that was drummed into their heads at an age when they were incapable of thinking for themselves.

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» RE: El Hombre Malo... Posted by: jenergy
» RE: l Hombre Malo... Posted by: El Hombre Malo
The only thing better...
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Posted by: J. Bo on Jul 14, 2008 1:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...would be a big BOWLFUL of Holy Ritz with a side of onion dip.

W.W.J.N. (What Would Jesus Nosh)?

Irreverence in the face of bullshit is perfectly appropriate, and HIGHLY "Christian" (in the genuine sense of the word). Don't forget that Jesus freaked out with righteous outrage and overturned the moneylenders' tables in the temple.

Personally, I think he would be horrified at the way "The Church" has turned his small handful of philosophical ideas into a global system of superstition and oppressive social control.

Now, stop bogarting the crackers, and pass the sacramental wine, please...

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Religious scum can't take it.
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Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Jul 14, 2008 1:32 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For millennia the religious fools have used their superstitious, hateful fairy tales to oppress and kill those who do not agree with their narrow dogma. It is about time the tables are turned and disrespect is shown to the church and all religions. Funny how religionists can dish out hate and smug abuse toward gays, women, and anyone else who doesn't conform to their narrow world view, but when they are attacked they just whine and scream and can't handle it. Sorry, religious nuts, you dish out the hate and oppression and intolerance, you will get it right back. It is all right to be intolerant of intolerance. Especially of religion, the biggest con game in history.

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The Truth is Actually Simple
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Posted by: riotoustanpdx on Jul 14, 2008 2:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Truth that eludes this forum about "religion" is rather basic. Those Crimes against Humanity for which religions are blamed, particularly the Catholic Church throughout history were actually act in direct contradiction to the practice of the teachings of Christ, and the Church at the time. All the wars in the past, and all the petty bullshit in the present, are NOT consistent with the tenets, the Dogma, of the Church. People do what they want to do, and do it under the name of others, and they are wrong.

Consider it like an embezzler who deposits money "in the name of" his company, but commits a crime in the process.

On the other side, if you consider the simple truth of what is asked of those who actually practice the Catholic Faith as it is taught or written, if one billion Catholics actually lived by that rule then the world would be better place, much better than the alternative of "no rules" to live by.

If anyone knows of a better "set of rules" I would be happy to study them.

So, the real issue is human weakness, and the ability to be arrogant in thinking that WE are perfect and THEY are a global nuisance that ought to be eradicated.

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» RE: Libertarianism is a superior ethical system Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
In the words of one of the Catholic Church's historical targets:
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Posted by: meadowlake59 on Jul 14, 2008 3:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God with has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use.”
Galileo

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church/state issue here?
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Posted by: somegirl on Jul 14, 2008 3:36 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
UCF is a public university. they are using their armed police to guard the eucharist? i know it's florida, but could this go against church/state separation?

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leftbank
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Posted by: markw4786 on Jul 14, 2008 7:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the record, Catholics believe the wafer is not a symbol of the body and blood of Jesus rather it IS THE BODY AND BLOOD OF JESUS. There is a word that describes the eating of human flesh and blood...the word is CANABALISM. For some reason Catholics believe a man, even a pedophile, can turn a wafer of grain into flesh and blood. Odd, hah?

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» RE: leftbank Posted by: riotoustanpdx
As Frank Carson said....
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Posted by: goat starer on Jul 15, 2008 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"its a cracker!"

and who am i to argue with the legendary Irish comedian. After all he was awarded a Papal Knighthood by the pope in 1987...

presumably this means the pope would say "its a cracker" too!

"It's the way I tell 'em!"

but seriously i am with you PZ all the way. lets have an end to mumbo jumbo. The enlightenment happened a long time ago and it is time some people decided to really THINK about what is TRUE rather than take easy lies to explain the world.

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just a cracker, says torah just a roll of paper like toilet roll
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Posted by: kikatsa on Jul 15, 2008 5:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
had this deeply offensive academic said the torah was just a roll of paper like a toilet roll, he would now be washing cars for a living.

he should stick to whatever he is trained for and stay out of the business of offending people by making hateful posts like this.

he knew what he was saying as he referenced office holders and branches of the catholic faith.

i think he should be fired for being so hate filled.

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» RE: Maybe burned at the stake? Posted by: UnEasyOne
Gone from the site
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Posted by: dougo on Jul 16, 2008 2:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
my fox orlando has removed this little item from tha site.Onward Christian Solders!!!

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Cowboys for Christ....
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Posted by: Jenny73 on Jul 17, 2008 1:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an interesting video diary that I just found - part of which includes an episode on Cowboys for Christ and other dialogues on Christianity - check out episode #7

http://www.shootandrunproductions.com/rsrt2gallery4.htm

Regards.....

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Transubstantiation is symbolic cannibalism,..........
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Posted by: tap17x on Jul 27, 2008 4:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.........obviously, but let's keep in mind that Christianity also has symptoms of polytheism, human sacrifice, multiple failures on god's part, an incoherent holy book, and magic, and is tantamount to plain ol' superstition. It's a superstition long overdue for being tossed in the garbage.

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