hypocrisy bubble and you got mad. i need to check out more george carlin.

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Feminists have no sense of humor or cannot accept the truth in it. What is wrong with being feminine and using your brain to further your status in the world? Why be a bitch and or act like a butch? George Carlin is right on!

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My mom was telling me the other day about a person she knew who was an old woman. She had had lots of problems including being raped by an intruder in her home.

MY mothers stories about things like this always have some kind of life lesson, often a shocker. What I learned from my mom about the rape of a very old woman is she may very likely not even live through it.

Old bones are very easy to break, as are blood vessel and other tissues. It is often just a brutal way to kill her with massive injuries.

I bet he thinks it is fun to kill things too, empowering.

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I didn't hear the routine you refer to, but I don't doubt that he made such jokes. He loved crossing lines and tipping sacred cows. There were times that I thought he went too far, but I didn't disregard him as a human or as an entertainer for such transgressions, just as I don't judge you or feminism for your distasteful and humorless rant. You had something that needed to be said, and so did he.

The big difference is I would pay an awful lot to hear what he has to say about anything just once more. Can't really say the same for you quite yet. So feel free to speak ill of the dead, but don't be surprised if nobody cares.

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What Carlin really said:

"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd.
See, hey why do you think they call him 'Porky,' eh? I know what you're going to say.

'Elmer was asking for it. Elmer was coming on to Porky. Porky couldn't help himself, he got a hard- on, he got horny, he lost control, he went out of his mind.'

A lot of men talk like that. A lot of men think that way. They think it's the woman's fault.
They like to blame the rape on the woman. Say, 'she had it coming, she was wearing a short skirt.'

These guys think women ought to go to prison for being cock teasers. Don't seem fair to me."

This is your support for calling George Carlin anti-feminist? Oh, that's right. The author has an ax to grind and wishes to selectively misquote Carlin. The feminists are OK. It's the sleazy one's I can't stand. If Bush pulled the same quasi-lying stunt, they'd be all over him.

Let's face it, whether we're killjoy feminists, or just regular people who want to empower women, the truth is that many people face incomprehensible acts with humor. You want to be angry over that fact, fine.

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I never heard Carlin's rape routine (or perhaps routines), but if Lamar's quote is correct, it does seem like more of a put-down of men who rape than of feminists. I also never heard his rant on feminism, so I can't judge that either.

I read one of his books and was not impressed; it seemed a quite a bit too negative for me. However, it's in the tradition of American humor to be irreverent in order to make points. Carlin was nothing if not irreverent. He attacked many established institutions and customs that are either oppressive or silly.

Of course he went too far sometimes, and he could be very offensive, but he did so much to shine a light on the aspects of our culture that leave much to be desired. He made us think, he made many people mad, and he also made a lot of us laugh.

I am normally appalled at name-calling, racial or ethnic sluts, or anything that even resembles mysogyny, so I surely don't condone this even in people I generally admire. However, no one is perfect, and in the big picture, I try to evaluate each person as to whether he or she brought more good to the world or more harm. In spite of his apparent shortcomings, I believe Carlin did a lot more good by opening our eyes to the ills perpetrated by the powers-that-be than the harm he might have done when his routines stepped too far over that line he liked to establish.

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I just listened to "Feminist Blowjob" . This bit is pro-woman, but anti-hipocracy of the feminist organization. There is a difference. He accepts the Cause, just not all the rhetoric. And he's funny to boot.

I'm with LeeAnnG. People say an awful lot during their lifetime, not all of it holds up under heavy scrutiny, but overall Carlin was a breath of fresh air, and he made many of us laugh, and feel better.

I would say if sentiment could send someone to heaven, judging by the responses here, George Carlin is hardly in feminist hell. He will be missed by this female.

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"Like a lot of people, Carlin confused state censorship with individuals who prefer not to be maligned or misrepresented. He criticized feminists for wanting to control language and to tell people what to think."

Please don't even try to tell us that at least some mainstream feminists, especially the anti-porn variety wanted to use state censorship.

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I watched some of Carlin's routines on You Tube yesterday morning and laughed so hard I had tears running down my face. I'd forgotten what funny really is. He was indeed irreverent. He was a good husband and father and I never got the impression that he singled out women to degrade any more than anyone else. Everybody and everything were his targets. No one left behind. ANNA

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Clearly, Suzie is not old enough to have been around when we watched George Carlin take comedy a huge leap forward. Bridging Lenny Bruce and SNL was Carlin, and did we love him for it. With his extraordinary body of work over 40 some years were definitely bits to offend everyone. Yeah, and while I don't recall the raps that offended Suzie, I don't put it past him, and as a rape victim, I probably might have tsk tsked him at the time.

But to curse such a brave soul, who cared more for truth and real goodness than most everyone in the public eye(and most of the rest of the human race)and made us laugh til we cried with his rich rich humor is to be so very narrowminded as to lose all credibility, and actually prove the point of those who reduce feminists to the grim rabid politicos with no sense of humor.

Careful who you assign to hell, my dear, because such misguided hatefulness may consign you to another room in this hell you believe in.

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What exactly is "feminist hell" anyway? Someplace hot, I assume, where you can't kind a cute pair of shoes, a tube of lipstick, or a razor to save your life?

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are you serious? Get a life, for cryin out loud. It's enough to make me anti-feminist. Before anything, we are human beings. G-d did not create feminists, but HUMAN BEINGS.

As George might say: what the fuck...

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There's a classic scene in All In The Family, when Archie--in black-face, having had to dash from a comedy routine at his lodge--rushes to hospital because his daughter Gloria has gone into labour. He enters the wrong room, and the patient cries 'Rape!' upon seeing him. His response was something like, 'Oh, shut up! Who'd want rape you anyway!' It was a very controversial scene, but given the times (many issues were well out in the open; something we lost with PC), it was a powerful message about various attitudes, but definitely funny, if cringe-inducingly so.

The writer has a point about the trivializing of such a horrible crime, but I don't get her interpreting Carlin as actually doing so. He's obviously gotten under many peoples' skin over the years, but one really has to understand him clearly in order to appreciate his humour. I say to this writer, come on! This wasn't Andrew Dice Clay, who really just shocked. Carlin was a comic genius, and certainly no woman-hater.

That chip looks awfully heavy!

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"But he had strong opinions, and he used language in hopes of getting people to believe as he did."

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - F. Nietzsche ('perspectives', so to speak).

What Rhetor would not "use language" to persuade others as to their "view of the world"? Many (if not most of the time these days, to BELIEVE).

It is sometimes astonishing to see and read expressions of antagonism toward issues (such as feminism and the position of the Female in organized societies and, thereby, cultures).

Misogyny and the utter depreciation and devaluation of the female (Form, Function, Substance, whatever) dates continuously at least since 2500 or so years ago -- check out the b.c. antics of such as the Delphics and especially Plato together with the vast activities of what are understood as the "Desert Fathers" or Church Fathers and such. This sentiment and reasoning about it occupies a very central and crucial and critical position in the entire historical development of what we call "The West" (curious it is grounded in more Eastern regions!) and "Western Civilization" and "Culture". It colors the customs, the morals, the values, the social arrangements, the economics and the politics of our society and has for a long, long, time.

Did Carlin seek knowledge?, truth?, 'happiness'?, Belief? Conversion? Or did he describe, from his own perspective, what he experienced and saw each and every day in the world around him and meet it all with the only perspective he found possible to meet it all with: humor? What single "Individual" could shoulder a 2500-year-old Habit and a very generalized Habit at that?

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increbibly bitter. Who are you actually angry at?

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I didn't realize until today George Carlin died. Yesterday morning, as I was pulling into work, I thought about the following bit by Carlin and again when I read Suzie's article and as I read people's comments:

Well I know, some people don't like you to talk about those things.
I know that. Some people don't like you to mention certain things.
Some people don't want you to say this. Some people don't want you to say that.
Some people think if you mention some things they might happen...some people are really fucking stupid!

Did you ever notice that? How many really stupid people you run into during the day?
Goddam there's a lot of stupid bastards walking around.
Carry a little pad and pencil with you. You'll wind up with thirty or forty names by the end of the day.

Look at it this way: Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.
And it doesn't take you very long to spot one of them does it? Take you about eight seconds.
You'll be listening to some guy...you say..."this guy is fucking stupid!"
Then...then there are some people, their not stupid...their full of shit. Huh?
That doesn't take very long to spot either, does it? Take you about the same amount of time.

You'll be listening to some guy..and saying, "well, he's fairly intelligent......ahht, he's full of shit!"
Then there are some people, their not stupid, their not full of shit...their fucking nuts!
Dan Quayle is all three! All three! Stupid, full of shit, and fucking nuts!

I wonder how many of you know this bit, I believe it was part of the same show that Suzie described. I am reminded about this bit because it can used to categorize a fair number of people (even if just for fun in your own mind) just like Suzie did to a narrow slice of George Carlin's 40+ years of comedy.

Thanks for being you (George Carlin) and keep 'em coming Suzie (and AlterNet, my favorite source of entertainment...and I actually like AlterNet, seriously, I mean if they cater to authors like Suzie, there's a chance for all of us to get published).

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Much More Than Seven Words
George Denis Patrick Carlin
May 12, 1937 – June 22, 2008

Although he really wasn’t
Everybody’s cup of tea
He was, a great comic
And he was, very funny.

He made fun of everyone
And of society’s flaws
He was arrested for it
They said, "You broke our laws!"

His, "Seven Dirty Words"
Are some, that some won’t say
But, a part of our language
And, always been that way.

His bit, played on the radio
And a man’s son, heard
But, his dad let him listen
And that’s kinda absurd.

He complained to the FCC
It went to the Supreme Court
George lost it, five to four
But didn’t stop, his retort.

A Grammy winner, actor
Author, and philosopher
He was true to himself
Said what he thought, for sure!

Considered the second best
Of all those funny men
I doubt we’ll see another
As good as him, again.

He surely was no angel
He doubted, "The Pearly Gate"
If there is, and he gets there
They’ll probably make him wait;~)

Del "Abe" Jones
06.23.2008

"Mankind’s greatest accomplishment is not the revolution of technology it is the evolution of creativity " copyright Del "Abe" Jones 1984

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Being Suzie.

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I am a feminist. Guess what? I love George Carlin.

And did you actually pay attention to anything the man said, or did you hear the word "rape" and immediately think OMG! It's a man who is speaking about rape! During a stand-up routine! He must think rape is FUNNY!

No, Suzie, that was not his point at all. Someone else included this quote, but I'm going to include it again, because I think you should read it several times and let it sink in:

"Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd.
See, hey why do you think they call him 'Porky,' eh? I know what you're going to say.

'Elmer was asking for it. Elmer was coming on to Porky. Porky couldn't help himself, he got a hard- on, he got horny, he lost control, he went out of his mind.'

A lot of men talk like that. A lot of men think that way. They think it's the woman's fault.
They like to blame the rape on the woman. Say, 'she had it coming, she was wearing a short skirt.'

These guys think women ought to go to prison for being cock teasers. Don't seem fair to me."

You see that? "These guys think women ought to go to prison for being cock teasers. Doesn't seem fair to me." He was actually making fun OF THE MEN THAT THINK THAT WAY. He was not making fun of the women being raped, but rather the men that do the raping.

He was also a genius with words. And obviously, his comedy worked -- because you're offended. I'm sure he'd be glad to know this.

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carlin was making jokes about everybody and anything. and that's what i like of him. you should take a time machine and go back to the intolerant pc 90's. give us a break, go fishing, smoke a dubbie, and laugh.
martina blastein, an ex-feminist and a very progressive person.

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oddly enough, I have heard feminists making all the same critiques of feminism you mentioned (privileged, white middle class careerists, humorless, focusing on politically correct language to the exclusion of bread and butter issues, etc.). There is something to it of course. The maid would probably rather get a raise than be called "Ms". And how many reactionary anti-progressive female Dem and Repub candidates have gotten support from Emily's List?

When it comes to humor, nothing is sacred. George Carlin wasn't that funny sometimes; neither is Tina Fey. Everybody is laughable sometimes, however.

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Carlin wanted people to think, to argue, to question, to study why they do things the way they do them.

He also wanted us to exercise our right to say and write what we want without censorship.

So, good for you for carrying on his legacy.

But, keep in mind, taking any comedian literally probably isn't wise.

Best,
Rhi B.

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This piece is twisted. On one hand it seems like a humorless feminist rant against George Carlin. On the other hand, it provides links to some amazing, decidedly pro-feminine, performances.

I can't figure it out. Is the author convicting him of anti-feminism or just pretending? Because it's obvious that he loved women.

If men don't turn you on, if hearing a man admit that he can't see a woman eating a banana without thinking about a blow-job doesn't turn you on, then just say so. Don't invite him to burn in hell, smile or no, it simply isn't nice, not to mention karmically unadvisable...

Either get a sense of humor or stop veiling your humor so well, it must give you a headache, it has certainly given me one.

George Carlin was THE MAN. He is immortal, his spirit lives on.

p.s. Thanks so much for the links, I had planned to do a youtube memorial and you got me started in a great way!

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George Carlin's routine on how being pro-life is anti-woman was marvelous. He was a passionate proponent of women's rights. I am a man, a feminist, and have a decent women studies education. I can understand how academic feminism can be hard to understand for those without love for complicated/often pretentious theory.

Carlins rant on feminism and language censorship should be seen in that light. He made some faux pas, and at times it was awkward, but how can you in good conscience deride someone who so passionately defended the need for fairness, for all people suffering oppression? He was good soul and was no misogynist. As far as comedians go, his ethics made him the Ghandi of his kind.

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News flash: there's no heaven or hell.

...back to your regularly scheduled rant.

jdfu!

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Roseanne Barr said of Carlin: "He really tipped over every sacred cow. He told the American people exactly the truth about themselves and their country and everything else. He was fearless."

Burn In Feminist Hell? Looking up from?
Feminist is not "down there" or "up there" it is right here on the earth. Humorless feminists (a minority) maintain Feminist Hell. They keep the fire burning by feeding it with their hate and lies. There souls long ago burned to a tiny cinder, so now, like zombies, they troll GWB's internets in hope of attracting converts to bite and turn into more zombies. George Carlin will live forever as long as people can read. For those left behind there is, of course, sadness. But he survived multiple heart attack and left us with 40+ years of unparalleled achievement and brilliance.
JERRY SEINFELD:
NYT June 24, 2008
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Dying Is Hard. Comedy Is Harder.

By JERRY SEINFELD
THE honest truth is, for a comedian, even death is just a premise to make jokes about. I know this because I was on the phone with George Carlin nine days ago and we were making some death jokes. We were talking about Tim Russert and Bo Diddley and George said: “I feel safe for a while. There will probably be a break before they come after the next one. I always like to fly on an airline right after they’ve had a crash. It improves your odds.”

I called him to compliment him on his most recent special on HBO. Seventy years old and he cranks out another hour of great new stuff. He was in a hotel room in Las Vegas getting ready for his show. He was a monster.

You could certainly say that George downright invented modern American stand-up comedy in many ways. Every comedian does a little George. I couldn’t even count the number of times I’ve been standing around with some comedians and someone talks about some idea for a joke and another comedian would say, “Carlin does it.” I’ve heard it my whole career: “Carlin does it,” “Carlin already did it,” “Carlin did it eight years ago.”

And he didn’t just “do” it. He worked over an idea like a diamond cutter with facets and angles and refractions of light. He made you sorry you ever thought you wanted to be a comedian. He was like a train hobo with a chicken bone. When he was done there was nothing left for anybody.

But his brilliance fathered dozens of great comedians. I personally never cared about “Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television,” or “FM & AM.” To me, everything he did just had this gleaming wonderful precision and originality.

I became obsessed with him in the ’60s. As a kid it seemed like the whole world was funny because of George Carlin. His performing voice, even laced with profanity, always sounded as if he were trying to amuse a child. It was like the naughtiest, most fun grown-up you ever met was reading you a bedtime story.

I know George didn’t believe in heaven or hell. Like death, they were just more comedy premises. And it just makes me even sadder to think that when I reach my own end, whatever tumbling cataclysmic vortex of existence I’m spinning through, in that moment I will still have to think, “Carlin already did it.”

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Please build a bridge and get over it. He was a comedian. I'm a blonde who laughs at blonde jokes. Doesn't mean I take them seriously. The man made a lot of sense. Too many feminists take themselves way too seriously. I am a feminist but that doesn't mean I've lost the ability to laugh at myself.

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Carlin CREATED CHARACTERS who sounded VILE

to DEMONSTRATE THE VILENESS OF THEIR BELIEFS & the THINGS THEY SAY.

he had a LOT of characters.

he portrayed a lot of UGLY characteristics to demonstrate a VARIETY of ugly logical fallacies & interpersonal cruelties.



IF YOU DIDN'T GET THAT, don't blame him.

Perhaps one of his later years, more direct for the MassMedia dumbed down audience might make a more direct path to Understanding??


George Carlin on the corporatism, consumption & the Ownership Class:

"money you don't have, on things you don't need".
"the owners of this country don't want that, the Real Owners... forget the politicians... you have no choice... they *own* everything... they spend billions of dollars every year to get what they want. & we know what they want...
... what they don't want: a population of citizens capable of thinking... well-informed people capable of critical thinking...
...they want *obedient workers*... "

I guess not everyone is good at observing Art & figuring out the intentions of the Artist OR contextualizing the Artist's Body of Work & putting those artistic contributions into perspective within decades offerings...

Did Carlin say awful things?
YES: to make a point about THE AWFUL THINGS WE SAY & & BELIEVE to JUSTIFY the awful things we do to one another

"shock & awe-ful thing"s: "Taking Liberties" & forced drugging of Non-Americans on US flights


===
Spread Love, not Corporate Dependence,

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian com
==
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
==
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
===

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I was gonna say "oh, lighten up, bitch," just for effect, but seriously, Suzie, what planet are you from?

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Look, I consider myself a feminist, but I harbor no illusions concerning my purity. I am also pretty damn sure that you aren't exactly 24k either.

George Carlin's cause was to make us laugh while we were thinking. He was really good at that. He was also intrinsically human, and demonstrated that over a period of 50 years in the public eye, working for "enlightenment through satire" and sometimes making a gaffe that could be latched onto and flown up the progressive flagpole for all to see.

He wasn't perfect, but he was always actively working on it.

Take your rage out on someone more deserving.

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