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Faith vs. Science: The Consequences of What We Teach Our Children

Posted by Daniel DiRito, The All Spin Zone at 4:59 AM on June 5, 2008.


Is America beginning to reap what it's sewn with faith-based education?
abstinence1
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Religious believers do so as a matter of faith. At the same time, many of these same people expect science to provide evidence that far exceeds the standards upon which they accept the words found in the Bible. This contradiction is troubling and merits discussion.

Commentary By: Daniel DiRito

Have you ever asked yourself what America and the world would look like if the abstinence-only advocating…intelligent design demanding…religious right had the power to enact the legislation they preferred? I don’t know about you, but the thought of this group at the helm of humanity is not only frightening; it could well spell the initiation of a period of irrational repression not seen since the Dark Ages. Even worse, I’m not sure they would possess the restraint to resist the application of Biblically mandated punishments.

Two articles in today’s news led me to ponder the possibilities. I think it’s obvious that there is a boundless commitment on the part of the religious right to impose their beliefs on others. That persistence makes them a formidable foe and it requires the rest of us to be vigilant in refuting and rejecting the tortured arguments they construct. Even worse, each time one of their efforts are rebuffed, they immediately move to craft a more refined replacement.

Pardon the ugly analogy, but this steadfast assault has all the makings of an inexpugnable infection…one that requires timely treatment lest it render the unsuspecting host into a state of perpetual decline. As such, one can never assume that a period of remission will be sustained. Like it or not, these inviolable interlopers are constantly searching for a vulnerability that can be exploited.

This analogy provides a seamless segue into the first article. According to a report in The Washington Post, there is concern that the insistence on abstinence-only education…education that frequently attempts to undermine the merits of condoms…is pushing us towards an expansion of teen sex, STD transmissions, and teen pregnancies.

From The Washington Post:

The nation’s campaign to get more teenagers to delay sex and use condoms is faltering, threatening to undermine the highly successful effort to reduce teen pregnancy and protect young people from sexually transmitted diseases, federal officials reported today.

New data from a large government survey shows that by every measure, the decade-long decline in sexual activity among high school students leveled off between 2001 and 2007 and the increase in condom use by teens flattened out in 2003.

Moreover, the survey found disturbing hints that teen sexual activity may actually have begun creeping up and that condom use among high school students might be edging downward, though those trend lines have not yet reached a point where statisticians can be sure, officials said.

“The bottom line is in all these areas we don’t seem to be making the progress we were making before,” said Howell Wechsler, director of the division of adolescent and school health at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, which conducts the survey. “It’s very troubling.”

“Since we’ve started pushing abstinence, we have seen no change in the numbers on sexual activity,” said John Santelli, chairman of the Department of Population and Family Health at Columbia University. “The other piece of it is abstinence education spends a good amount of time bashing condoms. So it’s not surprising, if that’s the message young people are getting, that we’re seeing condom use start to decrease.”

“We may be witnessing the beginning of a trend where we’re reaping the harvest of medically inaccurate and ineffective sex education, which is abstinence-until-marriage sex education,” said Michael D. Resnick, who studies teen sexual behavior at the University of Minnesota. “With a growing proportion of young people exposed to those curricula, I think we can begin to understand why we’re beginning to see a reversal of the positive trends that had been happening.”

The new data comes from the 2007 survey, which involved 14,103 students in grades 9 through 12 at 157 high schools nationwide. The survey found that the proportion of those who reported they had ever had sex, had begun having sex before age 13, had engaged in sex within the last three months and had sex with at least four partners all increased slightly between 2005 and 2007.

None of the increases were sufficient to convince statisticians that there is a real upward trend. But when the agency analyzed the numbers for The Post, statisticians found that every measure of sexual activity passed the statistical test for having leveled off between 2001 and 2007 and the condom use numbers passed the test for leveling off beginning in 2003.

“The longer any trend exists, the more confident we can be in it,” said Laura K. Kann, who heads the project at the CDC.

While the data indicates we’re on the precipice of an alarming trend, it would be inappropriate to call it conclusive. Then again, that is the exact type of opening that abstinence-only proponents are seeking. Those opposed to comprehensive sex education and contraception remain rigidly attached to their religious ideology and every effort is made to interpret the data such that it supports their preferred methods of sex education.

In other words, all data is open to manipulation because they aren’t working towards the verification or nullification of a reasoned hypothesis. On the contrary, they conclude that the science is simply a tool to be massaged so that it matches their unwavering moral imperative.

An example would be helpful. Not long ago, a similar report stated that one in four teenage girls had contracted a sexually transmitted disease. The alarming number garnered ample attention as both sides of the issue sought to draw conclusions. The following excerpts are from those who sought to downplay the data…those who didn’t want the data to be a tool in discrediting abstinence-only education.

From The National Journal:

But how useful or valid is that one-in-four number? Are 25 percent of America’s teenage girls really in imminent danger from HIV/AIDS, gonorrhea, and the human papilloma virus (HPV) that leads to cervical cancer?

A close examination of the CDC’s star statistic reveals several serious shortcomings that undermine its validity, as well as its usefulness to parents, legislators, health officials, and advocacy groups on the left and the right.

[…] The CDC’s study referred to “infections,” but most biological infections never turn into diseases; the body suppresses them before symptoms appear. This conflation of disease and infection was commonplace, in part because the headline on the CDC press release said, “1 in 4 Teenage Girls Has a Sexually Transmitted Disease.”

Other problems were numerous.

• The infections referred to in the study are not the ones that leap to people’s minds when they worry about sexually transmitted diseases. The data excluded the two most-feared diseases, HIV/AIDS and syphilis. The most common infection was from HPV, which can have serious consequences but in the vast majority of cases disappears on its own.

• The focus on “teenagers” covers a broad age range, from those who are 14 (only 13 percent of whom have had sexual intercourse, according to other studies) to women of 18 and 19 (70 percent of whom have had sex before their 19th birthday). CDC officials declined to describe to National Journal the infection rates in each of the two-year age groupings, even though they have the data.

• The one-in-four number was culled from a complex database that included only several hundred women under age 20. The finding carries a large margin of error, and critics won’t be able to review the study until it gets published in a peer-reviewed journal next year, at the earliest. CDC officials initially said that 838 girls and women participated in the survey. The data for the one-in-four number, however, came from a smaller core group of 615.

Perhaps most critical, the CDC’s March 11 news conference, and the materials distributed there, failed to put the numbers into historical context. Other CDC research shows that infection rates for most serious sexual diseases, including syphilis, gonorrhea, and chancroid, are sharply below 1990 levels–syphilis reached a historic low in 2000. The CDC’s tests showed that none of the 18- and 19-year-old women in the study were infected with HIV or syphilis, but officials did not mention this success in the press release. Teenagers’ exposure to STDs has also dropped because their sexual activity declined from 1998 to 2002. The decline was 20 percent among girls, and 40 percent among boys, according to the CDC report, “Teenagers in the United States: Sexual Activity, Contraceptive Use, and Childbearing, 2002,” last updated in March 2006.

Where to begin?! As I understand it, the difference between infection and disease isn’t the colossal oversight cited above. Yes, the body frequently overcomes an active infection such that the symptoms abate…but with HPV…one of the more concerning infections, the abatement of symptoms does not constitute the removal of the viral infection. In fact, a positive test for HPV exposure means that the individual (particularly women) will be vulnerable to cervical cancer at any point in the future. Think of it like a fever blister (cold sore). Once an individual has been exposed to the virus, it may remain dormant for extended periods of time but the exposure is still a threat to future health.

So here’s the thing. Those seeking to undermine this data would have their followers believe that since HPV’s symptoms (warts are typical) are often controlled without treatment, the infection doesn’t rise to the level of concern reserved for other STD’s that usually worsen in the absence of treatment (HIV, syphilis, and gonorrhea).

Their rationale may make sense to the average parent but it is devoid of a proper assessment of the long term implications of HPV. Yes, these other three STD’s frequently require aggressive treatment, and left unattended can have dire and rapid consequences, but the fact that HPV doesn’t function in the same manner isn’t comparatively relevant. HPV may abate without treatment…but it may also kill at some point in the future. Hence the effort to distinguish between infection and disease is intellectually dishonest.

As if that weren’t enough selective reasoning, these same apologists then pivot to suggest that a larger proportion of those infected were 18 and 19 year olds. That is an accurate observation but it is also an incomplete assessment. Logic tells us that the longer an individual is sexually active…and failing to practice safe sex methods…the more likely one is to eventually be infected. Therefore, extrapolating that the frequency of infection in younger girls is no reason for alarm ignores the fact that they are likely engaged in sexual practices that may eventually lead to infection.

To prove the argument they’re making, one would have to assume that 18 and 19 year old girls suddenly abandon abstinence while also beginning to engage in unsafe sexual activity. The likelihood that both actions appear simultaneously and virtually spontaneously simply doesn’t comport with human nature. In other words, making the the correlation of infection with a higher age the lynchpin of an argument that younger girls aren’t at risk necessarily ignore the activities that are required to result in the frequency of eventual infections in older girls. The truth of the matter is that sex must be happening in younger girls and it is likely performed with an inconsistent use of appropriate protection.

The purpose of this example was to illustrate the willingness to adapt the data to fit the ideology. The resistance to abandoning the principle of abstinence is so strong that those in favor of it are willing to distort the interpretation of the data as well engage in sustained self-deceit. As such, the example supports my contention.

Returning to my initial musing, one begins to see the world as it would exist if the ideologues were handed the reigns. Unfortunately, I doubt the deception would stop regardless of the disastrous outcomes that could be expected or predicted if science was properly respected. Instead, in a typical display of religious righteousness, I would expect that disease and death would be met with moral judgments…leaving science to function in a role that is subservient to the pursuit of ideological purity.

That leads me to the second article on the ongoing battle to introduce intelligent design (creationism) into the science curriculum in our schools. Having failed to successfully repackage creationism as intelligent design, the anti-evolutionists have adopted a successor strategy with a newly launched linguistic sleight of hand.

From The New York Times:

Now a battle looms in Texas over science textbooks that teach evolution, and the wrestle for control seizes on three words. None of them are “creationism” or “intelligent design” or even “creator.”

The words are “strengths and weaknesses.”

Starting this summer, the state education board will determine the curriculum for the next decade and decide whether the “strengths and weaknesses” of evolution should be taught. The benign-sounding phrase, some argue, is a reasonable effort at balance. But critics say it is a new strategy taking shape across the nation to undermine the teaching of evolution, a way for students to hear religious objections under the heading of scientific discourse.

Already, legislators in a half-dozen states — Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri and South Carolina — have tried to require that classrooms be open to “views about the scientific strengths and weaknesses of Darwinian theory,” according to a petition from the Discovery Institute, the Seattle-based strategic center of the intelligent design movement.

” ‘Strengths and weaknesses’ are regular words that have now been drafted into the rhetorical arsenal of creationists,” said Kathy Miller, director of the Texas Freedom Network, a group that promotes religious freedom.

The chairman of the state education board, Dr. Don McLeroy, a dentist in Central Texas, denies that the phrase “is subterfuge for bringing in creationism.”

“Why in the world would anybody not want to include weaknesses?” Dr. McLeroy said.

Evolution as a principle is not disputed in the scientific mainstream, where the term “theory” does not mean a hunch, but an explanation backed by abundant observation, and where gaps in knowledge are not seen as grounds for doubt but points for future understanding. Over time, research has strengthened the basic tenets of evolution, especially as advances in molecular genetics have allowed biologists to read the history recorded in the DNA of animals and plants.

Yet playing to the American sense of fairness, lawmakers across the country have tried to require that classrooms be open to all views. The Discovery Institute has provided a template for legislators to file “academic freedom” bills, and they have been popping up with increasing frequency in statehouses across the country.

Again, these efforts demonstrate the diligence that is displayed by those intent on adapting science to support religious speculations. Should these individuals ever achieve the political authority they seek, I not only fear they’re willingness to adapt science; I wouldn’t be surprised to see a concerted effort to ablate large swaths of it…regardless of the degree of substantiation it may hold.

In the end, I find it ironic that these purveyors of unpalatable ideology are as invasive as the infections they seek to ignore. At the same time, they embrace beliefs that emanate from the writings of men that pale in comparison to the scientists they seek to discredit. The mere existence of the Bible…absent a scintilla of the evidence that they insist be provided to support science…is sufficient for them to engage in an unyielding effort to conform the enlightened present to the unproven past.

They demand that the fossil record contain every chronological component in order to acknowledge the validity of the theory of evolution while at the same time accepting on faith the existence of each and every character, concept, and construct contained in the Bible.

I rue the day that these bellicose bloviators ever achieve the authority they envision. While they may believe their actions are in keeping with the instructions of an all knowing creator, I think it only fair to demand they provide the same level of evidence they insist be supplied by science. After all, why should I embrace their holier than thou hypothesis on any lesser terms?

Cross-posted at Thought Theater


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My comments to the Texas School Board
Posted by: bryangalt on Jun 5, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bringing faith into public education will lead to the downfall of the US as a world leader.

I send this email to the Texas BoE after reading that almost half of their members believe and state publicly that Earth is only 5,000 to 6,000 years old...arggh, I can't even type any further!

FROM MY EMAIL: "In your attempts to bring creationism into the classroom, have you ever considered the impact that this decision can have on our society in general?

I realize that some of you believe that the Earth is a mere 5K to 8K old (I won't even begin to go into how ridiculous you sound), but we don't have to go that far back for my point to be made.

Let's look at some well known historical facts: religious beliefs, when taught as facts to the general population, are used for oppression of expression, individual freedoms and the right to free thought. Religious beliefs, in every culture around the globe, throughout history, when expressed as the "facts" are used to keep the population in the dark, in effect, denying them the opportunity to realize that there is more life on this planet than we can count, denying them the feelings of awe that the Universe inspires in everyone because the Universe shouldn't exist according to the religious belief.

In America, the first Amendment guarantees the Freedom of Religion. I believe that this also means the Freedom FROM Religion as well. Each of you are charged with a role in shaping the lives of your young people by deciding what they should be taught in the public schools you represent. Ask yourself this question while you are thinking about how to slip in creationism: Am I doing them a greater service by showing them that my agenda to subvert the public school systems has paid off because I am now getting to subvert the Constitutional ban on church and state?

Or should I instead let the public school systems teach the kids (by the way, these kids are someone elses kids, not yours) the sciences (biology, chemistry, geology, etc) and I will spend my personal time encouraging them to attend my church, a place where many like-minded, ignorant people gather to discuss the lives of long-dead Jewish historical figures and try to apply meaning to our lives based upon their stories.

Please don't forget the old admanition "...be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." Your attempts to bring "creationism" into the classroom, if successful, will not lead to any type of utopian religious destination, instead it will only rekinkle age-old strife and discontent. Honestly, do your self and your Nation a favor: Stop while you still can."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Real Faithfuls should embrace science
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 5, 2008 5:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Long time Recover Catholic, have spent years claiming Atheism as my philosophy. But have found with in the last year I have become far more spiritual with not only the assistance of science, but the exploration of the Other Non mainstream Religions which have been around for Millenia- but have been intentionally silenced by those who have highjacked the Real meaning of Faith.
Science has caused me to re-evaluate my 'atheism' the immensity and sheer awesomeness which surrounds Us -that which not yet be understood, causes me not only introspection but a realization that We are just a minute element in the big scheme of things. Every new show regarding the Cosmos, biology, chemistry ...leave me Awestruck and amazed and Humbled.
I have come to realize it is Not a 'God ' I deny - it is those who wish to Play 'Middle management' which I abhorr. They have proven their Heretical Arrogance, by their Proclamation of Knowledge of which is Truely unknowable.Their attempt to Oppress mankinds Potential and true Responsiblity as the Only Species capable of Stewardship of all that exists. My new philosophy rejects external control- a conglomeration of ancient wisedoms, 'Gnostic' reality. I equate 'god' with Nature- interchangeable and worthy of submission and committment. I am one in a long line of Orgnaized Religions worst nightmares- I communion with the 'Almighty' without their interference and deceit.
The more I learn through Science the stronger my Faith and Reverence becomes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You and I . . . Posted by: Scientz
» RE: You and I . . . Posted by: Xynyx
» Nice assumptions . . . Posted by: Scientz
» devout atheist is Posted by: gregii
» And . . . Posted by: Scientz
All right come on...
Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Jun 5, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Is America beginning to reap what it's sewn with faith-based education?"

Is it SEWN or SOWN or...? Seriously, I begin to forget spellings as I age, but isn't literacy important if we are discussing schools?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: All right come on... Posted by: astockton
» RE: All right come on... Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: All right come on... Posted by: captcarole
Not boundless.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jun 5, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it’s obvious that there is a boundless commitment on the part of the religious right to impose their beliefs on others.

Whilst I disagree with the introduction of any faith-based notions into the teaching of science, I think it's clear the author has an unreasonable grudge against his target group.

"Boundless" they are not. They participate in the democratic processes to achieve what they feel is a better outcome for the nation. I disagree, but that does not make them fanatics who are willing to stone rape victims, carry out flavors of religious mob-style hit contracts (fatwahs), and etc.

I profoundly disagree with their opinions, but I respect the fact that their attempts are civil attempts.

Not boundless; civil. The difference is profound. Education is the answer for two problems, I would suggest.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Not boundless. Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Not boundless. Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Not boundless. Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Not boundless. Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: Not boundless. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Not boundless. Posted by: tom.trog69
» Challenges to science are challenges. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Yes, boundless. Posted by: dkm
» RE: Yes, boundless. Posted by: QuestionAuthority
Condensed Version
Posted by: Xynyx on Jun 5, 2008 10:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In other words, all data is open to manipulation because they aren’t working towards the verification or nullification of a reasoned hypothesis. On the contrary, they conclude that the science is simply a tool to be massaged so that it matches their unwavering moral imperative."

"They demand that the fossil record contain every chronological component in order to acknowledge the validity of the theory of evolution while at the same time accepting on faith the existence of each and every character, concept, and construct contained in the Bible."

"I think it only fair to demand they provide the same level of evidence they insist be supplied by science."

"After all, why should I embrace their holier than thou hypothesis on any lesser terms?"

You should not.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Creationist,Abstinence only parents
Posted by: cwilsondrum on Jun 5, 2008 10:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will be so busy dealing with their daughters' and sons' decaying health and complete inadiquacies in a global economy. they will have forgotten all of their bellicose philosophies. let them wallow in their ignorance.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» But don't forget Posted by: brer
It's more frightening than that
Posted by: annekarina on Jun 6, 2008 3:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget that they think the earth is 6000 yrs old,
these folks want to take the Jewish people back to
Jerusalem thinking that will bring about Armegeddon and then JC will come set his kingdom up on earth. Once the Jewish people are gone for good of course. Don't laugh, I've heard em tell it. Before 911, I listened to a prominent member of a prominent state refer over and over to Jerusalem as "ground zero". I finally told her to "STOP IT."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Strenghts and Weaknesses of American History & Politics
Posted by: Tombo on Jun 6, 2008 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I doubt these same people that want to explore all facets of evolutionary theory would be as open to exploring the myths of American benevolence and democracy and discussing the realities of American imperialism

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Sewn? What a stitch!
Posted by: soundman on Jun 6, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your headline reads: "Is America beginning to reap what it's sewn with faith-based education?"

So I assume you skipped the education part. Blogging is not a profession, just a way to show your ignorance.

As you sow, so shall you reap. Figure out how to spell it and then maybe I'll read your "blog" but I'll take journalism any time instead.

Lou

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abstinence-only doesnt take into account rape
Posted by: cyr3n on Jun 6, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What use is an abstinence-only education when men are defiling virgins in date rape scenarios as a selfish means of std-free sex? Thats the real message thats coming across. Condoms dont work, a girl on the pill/patch/ring is a dirty slut, find yourself a virginal plaything and you're 100% safe.

In the wake of these encounters, you have girls, unprepared for sexual activity because they never intended to be active in the first place.. at the mercy of peer hearsay: "oh you cant get pregnant if you put a condom on right before climax", "you're only fertile a couple days in the month its no big deal", "he's probably sterile because he smokes". Now devirginized, they are completely marginalized and regarded as a sexually active statistic... having to attend abstinence-only classes which not only dont apply to them anymore but preachs that all sex is consensual and holy so they must have wanted it. Doesnt anyone realize the kind of damage this has on the silent majority of date rape victims?

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religion is not scientific
Posted by: luzmejor on Jun 6, 2008 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..and the bible is simply a collection of writings that express ancient Oriental "wisdom" literature, nothing more.

The fact that so many people use it as an example of real religion and a credible substitute for moral ethics is simply an artifact of modern humanity's striving to be a modern substitute for the Holy Ghost.

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judp2001
Posted by: judp2001 on Jun 6, 2008 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate to be picky, but it should be "reap what we have SOWN, not sewn! We reap from the harvest of the seeds that are sown, not from the clothes that are sewn!

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Rev Wright
Posted by: master09 on Jun 6, 2008 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about the chickens coming home to roost this would be the same thing would'it?

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Religion is a mental illness
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion is caused by any one or more of about half a dozen mental illnesses.
The truth about religion can be found in these books:

"The Neuropsychological bases of god beliefs" Dr. Michael A. Persinger MD,
psychiatrist 1987 "Religious people are just like my temporal lobe patients"

"The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bi-Cameral Mind" Julian
Jaynes Professor, Harvard University 1976 "Religious people are just like
schizophrenic patients"

"The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice" Roger A. MacKinnon, M.D.,
Robert Michels, M.D. W. B. Saunders Co. 1971 "Religiosity is a common
symptom [of] schizophrenic patients"

"The God delusion" by Richard Dawkins. "Religion is caused by a kind of
computer virus that infects the living computer, the human brain."

"The Science of Good and Evil" by Michael Shermer, 2004 "Morality and Ethics
are now in the jurisdiction of Science and greatly improved thereby."

Many books in the new science called "Sociobiology": Morals and ethics are
instinctive and they evolved.

"God: The Failed Hypothesis" by Victor Stenger Scientific proof that god does
not exist.

"The God Part of the Brain" by Matthew Alper 1996. "The USA is anomolusly
religious because many early founder groups were religiously insane and fleeing
prosecution in Europe. Religion is a genetic disorder."

"The Accidental Mind" by David J. Linden, 2007 Belknap Press of Harvard
University Press. Religion is caused by the extreme klugeyness of the "designed"
by evolution brain. In particular, the narrative creation system cannot be turned
off. It generates false narratives that are believed by the generating person. This is
seen in experiments done in the laboratory. This book has the best explanation of
resistance to evolution: "There has also been an assumption that if one accepts the
idea that life developed without divine intervention, it necessarily follows that all
aspects of religious thought must be rejected. Those who take this line of
argument to extremes argue that when religious thought is rejected moral and
social codes will degenerate and "the law of the jungle" will be all that is left. It is
imagined by religious fundamentalists that those who do not share their particular
religious faith are incapable of leading moral lives." These suppositions are not
true many times over. Linden later mentions that the creationists [intelligent
design advocates] are exactly 180 degrees wrong rather than just a little wrong.
Being exactly wrong, they are unable to unlearn their error. See Sociobiology or
Sciobio.

"Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism" edited by Petto &
Godfrey, 2007. The ID and creationist crowd are trying to do away with science.
They see science as a "godless religion." Science is a process, not a religion.

"Manufacturing Belief" by Lewis Wolpert
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/05/15/lewis_wolpert/

"The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris

"Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon", by Daniel Dennett
Let's do scientific research on religion and find out what causes it.

"Origins of the Modern Mind" by Merlin Donald 1991 "So what did you expect
from a brain that is based on the Chimpanzee brain?

"Atheism, A Case Against God" by George Smith

"God is not Great; how religion poisons everything" by Christopher Hitchens, 2007

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religion is a scam
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a sophomore undergraduate student in Physics, your homework in Probability
and Statistics class may include figuring out when the second coming would be
required, assuming that the bible was 100% true in the year zero. That is, when
would the bible be down to 50% true? The popular and professors' answer in
1965 was the year 500. The true answer: A friend of mine was born and raised in
Budapest, Hungary. As an adult, he came here and stayed. After 25 years, he
visited his home town of Budapest. He was unable to communicate with his high
school classmates because the Hungarian language had changed so much. The
correct answer is less than 25 years. The first gospel was not written down until
50 years after the alleged events and then in a different language. The people who
told the story were at about the same level of civilization as "wild Indians", I mean
Native Americans before Columbus got here. We have all played or seen played
the game called "Telephone" in which a story is passed down a line of re-tellers.
By the Sixth re-telling, the story has no resemblance to the original. The gospel
story had to have been re-told at least 6 times before it was mis-translated the first
time. [Note that whoever wrote it down the first time was free to write whatever
he wanted to. The storytellers were illiterate and unable to check his written text
by reading it. Besides that, he wrote in Greek rather than Aramaic.] Conclusion:
There is no truth anywhere in the bible, and there never was. There is no way to
know what "jesus" or "mohammed" or any other such character actually said or
did.

ALL of the jurisdictions that were formerly in the jurisdiction of religion have
been taken over by Science. There is no longer a need to debate the issue.
Religion is an unfortunate side effect of having evolved from a chimpanzee-like
animal in a very brief 6 or 7 million years. "God" will not save us from the
consequences of global warming or an asteroid impact or a tornado because there
is no such critter as "god.". Ethics and morality are instinctive, not derived from
religion. Female instinct has greater force in morality than male instinct because
the female is in command of the sexual encounter. Look up "Sociobiology". The
origin of the Universe is the subject of Cosmology which is part of astronomy
which is part of the science of physics.
Religion is a SCAM. ANY religion, there are 10,000 to choose from at any one
time. People keep inventing new religions [for the benefit of the "prophet," of
course] and forgetting other religions. ALL preachers, priests, imams, rabbis,
iatolas, etc. belong in jail for "grand theft, bunko type".

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Attack back
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 9:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Daniel DiRito, it is time to stop merely defending. Forget the
taboo against attacking religion. That taboo was created by
preachers for their own monetary benefit. It is time to attack
back. Religion needs to be defeated, not contained. There are
growing atheist and secularist groups in the US now. Join them.
Religion has been superseded by science, not just paralleled by
science. Tax religion as a business. Push for teaching that
science has replaced religion. Push for teaching that religion is
nonsense. Demand laws that put preachers in jail for grand theft.

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forecast or analysis?
Posted by: gregii on Jun 6, 2008 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I fear that in predicting the outcome of faithbased decision-making you have failed to observe: your predictions have been in process for some time with the results all around us. America is slipping in science, math and all disciplines requiring logical, open, inquisitive, informed and disciplined minds. The latest space exploration is dependent upon the Japanese. Our education levels are falling in comparison to the standards of the world - shall I go on?

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End the ID nonsense
Posted by: rmirman on Jun 6, 2008 12:18 PM   
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That this nonsense continues shows the incompetence of the science community. Let us end ID nonsense forever. See chapter "Does word God exist?" in book
Our Almost Impossible Universe: Why the laws of nature make the existence of humans extraordinarily unlikely
and the blog
randomabsurdities.wordpress.com

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Strengths and weaknesses
Posted by: dkm on Jun 6, 2008 3:25 PM   
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Hasn't anyone noticed that it's only evolution that is supposed to be examined? No where does anyone suggest that maybe creationism/ID should also be examined for its strengths (?) and weaknesses? Maybe if a big point was made about looking at them, the creationists would have to go to plan D.

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happy athiest
Posted by: daniel w vermillion on Jun 6, 2008 8:53 PM   
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thank you all for all your intersting comments. i was watching a doc the other day about "revelation" and got a new take on these nutbags. amazing: not only must israel be destroyed b4 jc can return. first, the temple must be destroyed; before that the temple must be rebuilt because all that is left is the west wall of the original; but the temple can't be rebuilt because the site is in palestine with a golden mosque sitting smack dab in the middle. soooooooooooo now the christians must destroy the muslims so they can destroy the mosque, so they can rebuild the temple, so they can destroy it and geesus can rapture them. anybody see where this is going? war in iraq anybody? war in afghanistan? war in iran? god bless george bush or as rev wright said goddamn america. gee whiz! what should god do? maybe he's the original "decider."

no one can save us from these whackjobs but us. we are the people we have been waiting for. VOTE OBAMA 08! get all your friends to vote. everyone must vote this time. if we don't get our country back this time we may never have another chance. i have seen too many close elections in my time-this time needs to be a landslide.

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thou art god
Posted by: siamdave on Jun 6, 2008 8:59 PM   
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- as Valentine Michael Smith said in the famous book. For a look at a society which has gotten rid of all other gods (especially the newest and evilest of all, Capitalism) except We the People - Green Island

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monotheism-vs-safe, smart, informed, love-filled, sex.
Posted by: studiosus on Jun 8, 2008 8:27 AM   
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One single old, bearded white male GOD, one single brown male ALLAH, one single olive-skinned male JEHOVAH...even a celibate black Jesus...ALL these dudes leave little room for equality, balance, harmony,TRUE unconditional love, common sense.

I dont' want to see the spread of disease, but I also don't think sex is dirty and ugly and for procreating only. It's a beautiful, wonderful part of life itself and should be presented to all that way. Sexual repression is like a growing boil that once stretched to its limit explodes into violence and intolerance as we see in Muslim extremists and Christian extremist and Jewish extremists alike. Mostly young angry males feeling the need to blow something up and ignore the pleas of their peace-seeking grandmothers.

ALSO: When I first read the statistic: "1 out of 4 girls" and witnessed a discussion amongst the female teenagers hanging out in my home, no one was discussing the boys role in all of this. Seriously, the discussion went right to the new hpv shots and if any of the girls had gotten them. Where would girls be contracting the infections in the first place, why aren't boys accountable (i have a son, too) and does this one statistic also mean 1 in 4 BOYS have been infected?

"AND FURTHERMORE...I don't like your trousers.." (just kidding)

BUT FURTHERMORE! to any ANTI-ABORTIONISTS out there. Are you telling me you'd rather have GOVERNMENT CHOICE OVER INDIVIDUAL CHOICE???

Don't we trust our own mothers, sisters, and daughters to make their own decisions? You'd rather have a power-hungry-male-dominated-religious-right-lobby-influenced government make decisions for your family?????

And gay marriage and sex. YES!! LOVE in anyway shape or form is not a bad thing, it's a personal thing.

We need to connect our brains to our spines again.

ach. sunday morning vent. feels good. I shall now go make sweet love to my honey...

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No one wants to die...
Posted by: Smartcookie on Jun 9, 2008 7:51 AM   
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... and religion for all it's faults gives something for people to hope for. Most people have miserable existences on earth working and living under unfair conditions.

Secular people aren't having kids so their values will be less likely to be passed on, it's one thing to be progressive but if you don't have kids the religious people win by a "breeding war of attrition" which in the end is fundamentally all that matters.

One cannot deny the demographic trends, it's undeniable. Religious people have more kids, if we want to change the country the only thing we can really do is get busy!

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Progressive ideals?
Posted by: Dianka on Jun 24, 2008 9:30 PM   
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Actually, the political right-wing has been more successful in hijacking the public discussion than we want to believe, and we have embraced (often without analysis) much of this ideology. The greatest success can be seen in our social agenda, and the degree to which we've replaced the very soul of progressivism something more akin to neo-conservatism.

The soul of progressivism is its ideals of human rights, human worth and dignity, social and economic justice, etc. Before the '80's, American progressive goals were consistent with the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We cared enough to learn about the dynamics that that keep people in poverty, and we saw how severe economic disparities hurt everyone except the rich.

What do we do today when we learn, for example, that the life expectancy of the poor in our post-welfare "reform" nation has fallen below that of most Third World nations?
Or that the infant mortality rate among America's poor now exceeds that of some Third World nations? Put simply, people are dying because of these policies. We do nothing, say nothing, because the poor have successfully been dehumanized.

Barack Obama promises the poor more of the same, reciting the lines about "moving people from welfare to work" with no intent to work on any of the barriers to employment. I was especially dismayed to hear him repeat the reactionary idea that "there is no excuse for not working hard". Out here in the real world, there are people who are unemployable for very legitimate reasons. But we decided that those who aren't actively employed have no human worth. No excuses.

What I find especially scary is that our talk about the poor is increasingly too similar to the discussion in Nazi Germany. Few things are so dangerous as encouraging the dehumanization of any small, powerless segment of the population, and that is what we are doing. Many of us even know that the poor were stripped of a number of legal rights, solely because they are poor -- but you sure don't see the ACLU getting involved. To my knowledge, this is the first time in the long history of the progressive movement that we have accepted the dehumanization of any group of people, not finding them worth our concern. I think that's tragic.

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