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Rules and Bylaws: The Meaning of Michigan

Posted by Emptywheel, Firedoglake at 4:12 AM on June 2, 2008.


Struggling to determine a "fair reflection" of the voter's will.
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I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I thought it worthwhile to post a recap of the RBC meeting yesterday.

First, the outcome: The Committee decided FL and MI will be seated--with both elected and super delegates seated at half strength. The FL delegation will be based entirely on the results of their January primary. And the MI delegation will be based on what the MDP thought would be the best approximation of a fair reflection of the will of the voters--which works out to be a 69-59 split (though each delegate votes at half strength).

A review of the importance of "fair reflection" may help folks understand why the RBC chose to accept a seemingly arbitrary number from MI.

Article Two Section 4 of the Democratic Party Charter requires that delegations to the National Convention "fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the Presidential nominating process." That means you've got to make sure the delegates to the Convention actually match what people who "participate in the Presidential nominating process" want. This is a concept that Hillary's top advisor, Harold Ickes, emphasized when he argued that MI's delegation should be based on our January 15 Clusterfuck--he said repeatedly that this principle was as fundamental a principle as the First Amendment. And basically, Ickes' arguments were all premised on his judgment that the Clusterfuck was a meaningful measure of the preferences for President.

But it was on the basis of this "fair representation" concept that the MI presenters, Mark Brewer and Carl Levin, made their ultimately successful arguments. Brewer (who is a big numbers geek) basically looked at several reasons why the Clusterfuck could not be considered a "fair representation:" because Obama's and Edwards' names weren't on the ballot, because an exit poll showed that Hillary and Obama would have taken something like 45% and 35% of the vote (the results of the Clusterfuck were 55% Hillary, 40% uncommitted), and the high number of write-ins that were thrown out that reflected a desire to vote for Obama or Edwards. In other words, Brewer threw out a load of data that proved that the Clusterfuck did not measure a "fair reflection" of the preferences of those who participated in the Clusterfuck. And given the results, this argument must have been persuasive to the RBC committee.

I'd add one point that Brewer did not make. The Clusterfuck can't be said to be a fair reflection of the preferences of those participating in the presidential selection process because Michiganders largely understood that the Clusterfuck was not part of the presidential selection process. We were told--even by Hillary--that our vote wouldn't count, and whether people went to the polls or stayed home, we based our decisions on that understanding. So to retroactively declare it part of the presidential selection process when, by reasonable estimates, Democratic performance was around 15% lower than what we should expect it to be this year (based on Dem performance in all the other primaries run before McCain had sewn up the Republican nomination), would unfairly leave those voters out. In other words, if 15% of the people who would have participated in the presidential selection process didn't, you can't really then declare it part of the presidential selection process and pretend it measures real preferences.

Anyway, like I said, Brewer's presentation must have convinced RBC members that the Clusterfuck results, by themselves, were not a fair reflection of the preferences of the voters of Michigan, and on that basis, they did not accept Ickes' argument that the delegation had to be seated based on the Clusterfuck.

There have been arguments--with which I have some sympathy--that the RBC exceeded its authority in then choosing to accept MI's 69-59 compromise. But even if you accept the argument that the RBC didn't have the authority to do what it did, that does not mean the delegation should have been seated based on the results of the Clusterfuck. If the RBC had determined they did not have the authority to accept MI's 69-59 split, then they should have deferred the decision to the Credentials Committee, which does have the authority to make such judgments. But it's important to note that even Hillary's campaign did not choose to pursue this option yesterday, though Hillary has reserved her right to do so in the future. The entire RBC--including Harold Ickes--decided that MI's delegation should be seated (indeed, Hillary's campaign has been most aggressive in calling for the RBC to seat the MI delegation). Call it a politically expedient solution. But once the RBC decided the MI delegation should be seated and once it agreed with Brewer's argument that the Clusterfuck was not a fair reflection of the preferences of MI voters, then they were bound to come up with what observers might find to be an arbitrary solution.

You'll hear lots of arguments about how the RBC took delegates away from Hillary to give the primary to Obama. But the real issue--the real disagreement--is over whether our Clusterfuck results can be considered a "fair representation" of voter preferences. Harold Ickes after the fact declared them so, largely by ignoring both the circumstances of the election and the data showing it was not a fair representation. The leadership of the MDP--relying on a lot of data and a close understanding of what happened during the Clusterfuck--disagrees with Ickes. Any dispute comes down to whether you think Ickes or the leadership of the MI Democratic Party was right about whether the Clusterfuck was a "fair reflection" of MI's preferences.

And frankly, I think a large number of MI voters agree with the MDP leadership, not Ickes.


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The Clinton Machine STOLE Michigan!!
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 2, 2008 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I voted in that BS 'Primary' and Our State 'leading Dems' have Plenty to answer for - I am ready for Recalls and Prosecution for Voter suppresssion and election Fraud to be levied On Their ASSES!
They Knew (Sen Levin) what would befall th evoters of this State when they pushed for the Change- so they did it intentionally to be used as an ACE in Hillary's Pocket. They influenced (controlled ) the Media to recite the LIE "Clinton the only Dem on the Ballot' to reduce the number of Non supporters from coming Out on the FREEZING Jan Day.Then they 'scrambled' the ballots candidate listing- just WHO was placed in the First Top Spot! MIne Read- Kucinich, Clinton, Dodd, Gravel, Uncommittted. When I bitched they told me it was within the legal Regualtions to do so- Except these 'scrambled' ballots were then fed into Pre Programmed SCAMtrons- Do you think they had Each districts machines Uniquely Proprogrammed to account fro this Change in the Top name Listed. NO that worked so that every mark on the first line was added to a Clinton Vote. At the Very least they wasted OUR money on numerous Varied Ballot styles AND on the cost of individual Pre programming. BS!!
Give Me a Break - I was born & raised in this State- We Bleed Blue (unions/blue collar), Our demographics also have numerous metropolitan regions. IF the voters we NOT told the Primary would Not count, that Hillary was the 'Only Dem' on the Ballot, Edwards and Obama would have left her eating their Dust! Consider the 'Benefit' of NAFTA on OUR STATE- You think we 'Love' the Clintons anymore????We are the Buckle to the Rust Belt! The Canaries in the F*cking Coalmine. WE began gasping for fresh air decades ago, NAFTA was so TOXIC we are damn near dead!
She did NOT WIN THIS STATE and every time she claims she did an dADDS US to her 'Popular Vote' Claim I damn near put my fott through the TV Screen! Not to mention the detriment she has been to the Women's Equality Movement- What a self centered, arrogant BITCH (I'm being Kind by using THAT word instead of the one I am thinking)

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» RE: And You are How Old??? Posted by: Purple Girl
I wish someone
Posted by: PJAW on Jun 2, 2008 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in the Democratic Party would show some stones and just tell the Clintons to go home. I know, they still wield some power and influence and are using it to maximum advantage to intimidate the party they claim to be a part of into giving them the nomination or they will wreak havoc. It's the most disgusting display of craven political ambition since Bush and his cabal stole the 2000 election.

I think the most laughable declaration of this entire mess is Bill bemoaning the fact that Hillary is not getting the respect she deserves. WHAT!?! That asshole can sit in the oval office getting his knob polished while his wife is elsewhere on the premises and now he complains that other people are being disrespectful to her!?!

I'm so sick of these people I could crap. I didn't like Bill as a Presidential candidate in '92, but voted for him in preference to Bush the 1st and tolerated his stupidity for 8 years while he greased the skids for the Republicans to take complete control in 2000.

The mess that is Michigan is the result of Hillary going back on her own promise to remove herself from the ballot there, and now she wants to declare that bit of dishonesty as some kind of victory that might give her the Democratic nomination? Boundless hypocrisy!

40 years ago the Democrats stepped on their own dick when they railroaded the nomination to hapless Hubert Humphrey when all the country and the party were screaming for change (which is the last thing Humphrey represented). That resulted in Nixon winning the Presidency, which was pretty much the entry point for a lot of the corrupt players that are still fucking the country up. If they put Hillary on the ballot, it will be pretty much of a rerun of that election.

I have to go shower, I feel filthy just talking about the Clintons and what they're doing.

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» RE: I wish someone Posted by: blackie4aces
FL voter perspective
Posted by: drmflorida on Jun 2, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Florida voter, several things struck me about that proceeding. First of all, I think that the political apparati of Florida and Michigan did their respective constituants a disservice by moving up their primaries, not only because of the legal consequences, but because I would bet a LOT of Hillary voters would love to change their mind now, given the ugly spectacle her campaign has become.

I am sure that the Clintonistas like to think they are fighting the same battle as was fought in the 2000 election, and they are, but they are on the wrong side. Sure, they are chanting "count every vote" (when what they mean is "count every vote for Hillary"), but with their thuggish attempts to dominate and subvert the process, they DEFINATELY reminded me of the rent-a-riots from Broward Country. Their rhetorical contortions to explain how an election with one (major) name on the ballot is fair reminds me of the Republican blow hards smirkingly contended that a bunch of elderly jewish people wanted to vote for Pat Buchanan, or that hundreds of thousands of people didn't really want to vote for President, and deliberately invalidated their own ballots.

They are ugly and ruthless, and an embarassment to the party as far as I'm concerned. Before Saturday, I would have looked favorably at some sort of concession for unity, such as a cabinet or ambassador post for Clinton, but now I would not trust her to scrape gum from the bottom of my desk.

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» RE: FL voter perspective Posted by: blackie4aces
Look at the brite side...
Posted by: jcalhoun on Jun 2, 2008 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The clintons don't OWN the DNC any more - the likes of Ickes and MacAuliffe can't control outcomes any more - it is OVER for them - and the vote this weekend pretty much proves it.

Now Obama has only to maintain his integrity (the main difference, along with character, to vote for him over her!) and refuse to make her VP....

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» RE: Look at the brite side... Posted by: drmflorida
The Hillary Bashing continues
Posted by: jeanmo on Jun 2, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
at least half of the Democratic voters have cast for Hillary - why the constant bashing?

You show no respect for people who believe in this woman, her strength and knowledge and determination.

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» Because Posted by: blackie4aces
» RE: The Hillary Bashing continues Posted by: drmflorida
» It's not "bashing". Posted by: PJAW
WILL YOU CALM DOWN (for God's sake)?
Posted by: gregii on Jun 2, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I understand how demos can differ over candidates. I don't understand the excess of rage that is heaped on HRC and lately, more and more on her husband? Once again: the Republicans spent $ gazillions to trash Bill & Hillary Clinton just as they did Jimmy Carter, Al Gore and John Kerry. The slickest advertizing seen in the history of mankind. Those who repeatedly fall for these high tech lynchings are weak minded to the borderline of retardation - and they deserve the democracy they voted for. The rest of us (and our decendants) do not deserve it. I will vote for the Democrat nominee. I am supporting OB. Please calm it down? If you want to conduct hateful politics, join the right wing Republicans. They will love you - in their sick way.

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» Olbermann a shill? Oh please! Posted by: foreverhope
Majority does not rule
Posted by: ToddSmith on Jun 2, 2008 11:28 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it very interesting that Hilary Clinton has become the enemy of those who have pinned their immature dreams on to an empty suit.
She has the majority of the votes from registered democrats. Grow up.

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» RE:Sissy Posted by: blackie4aces
» RE: Majority - is being silenced Posted by: blackie4aces
» RE: Majority - P.S. Posted by: blackie4aces
» Party elites? Posted by: foreverhope
» OBAMA WON IT FAIR AND SQUARE! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: Majority does not rule Posted by: ToddSmith
» RE: Majority does not rule Posted by: blackie4aces
Wow! The MSM should talk to you!
Posted by: mogelsberg on Jun 2, 2008 4:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never would have guessed that Michigan would have gone for Edwards or Obama from what has been said in the mainstream, or the non-mailstream media, for that matter. Very interesting perspective. Will MI go for Obama in the general?

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The Party first, America second!
Posted by: carbon-based on Jun 2, 2008 7:33 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what a mess.. and we are supposed to believe that democrats can run the country... they can't run congress and can't even run their own party.. and who gets screwed, the American people.. we are held hostage to this crazy two party dictatorship..

time for a strong independent.

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