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Are Hillary and Obama Destroying the Dems' Chances in November?

Posted by Steven Reynolds, The All Spin Zone at 5:54 AM on March 20, 2008.


Obama's big national lead over Clinton has all but evaporated, and both Democrats trail McCain, according to a new Reuters/Zogby poll.
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Our Blondsense blogger and friend Peter of Lone Tree comments on a post concerning his prediction of what will happen if Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama keep going at it from here until the convention:

In recognition of the first notice I've seen that it's in the bag for McCain, I'm cross-posting a comment I made "over home" at Blondesense:
To Wit:

As I opined a couple of weeks ago, the two Democrats are going to spend so much time and energy beating the shit out of each other, that it will enable McCain to walk off with the election:

Reuters: "Democrat Barack Obama's big national lead over Hillary Clinton has all but evaporated in the U.S. presidential race, and both Democrats trail Republican John McCain, according a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday."

'Course, maybe Barack & Hillary are getting paid to take a dive.

I've said in the past that I'd rather have our guys front and center with John McCain begging to get on the stage. Heck, the polls aren't even as bad as Peter claims, at least according to this writer at DKos. There's plenty of time in September and October to ratchet up his negatives. But Peter's point is the prevailing view, that Obama and Clinton are going to make each other unelectable unless we can get a winner here soon. Worse, I suppose, is the way the Obama/Clinton race is effecting families. From Crain's New York:

Howard Graubard and his wife, Sabina Tyrk, were on opposite sides for months--he with Sen. Hillary Clinton and she with Sen. Barack Obama--when matters came to a head one night at their home in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn. Ms. Tyrk made it clear that her husband's advances would be for naught unless he switched allegiances.

"Sabina was unrelenting in trying to persuade me into voting for Obama, basically threatening me with a Lysistrata," says Mr. Graubard, referring to the ancient Greek comedy in which women withhold sex from their husbands to end the Peloponnesian War.

Yes, it is the silly season, isn't it. I'm not sure why this is news. Couples have been splitting their votes for decades. Heck, I'm married to a Republican, though she's changing her registration in order to vote for Anne Dicker in the primary here this year. No, this story has zero significance, though it is refreshing to see the word "Lysistrata" in a news story.

AlterNet is a nonprofit organization and does not make political endorsements. The opinions expressed by its writers are their own.

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Tagged as: obama, clinton, democratic party

Steven Reynolds is a regular blogger for the All Spin Zone


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View:
THE REPUBLICAN STRATEGY
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 20, 2008 7:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Divide and Conquer. The Repubs have absolutely nothing to run on. A failed presidency, war, a
nation getting poorer by the day. But they can destroy the opposition. They do not want what's best for the U.S. They want McCain elected. War is profitable. So the constant picking at Obama & Clinton is the same as campaigning for McCain. It's time to stop beating up on the Dems and stop Shooting ourselves in the foot. Thanks, ANNA

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uh, yeah!
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Mar 20, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
isn't that what all this 'race' and 'ready to command' nonsense is all about.

real issues for real voters, please.

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WTF?
Posted by: sui_generis on Mar 20, 2008 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's this "And Obama" stuff in the headline?!

Obama's not the one launching the negative attacks, or the one hanging in the race long after it's winnable. Obama is the one who is trying to keep things high-minded and be inspirational, instead of acting like a Repugnican.

"And Obama".....yeah, right.

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» damn it! Posted by: hurricane hugo
NO
Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 20, 2008 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HILLARY is hurting Democratic chances in November.

Note to the Clintons, Clntonistas, the duped and the overly inbred:
The Fat Lady has sung and the Clintons couldn't steal it.
It's a great day for America and the Democratic Party.

Now Billary can go back to misrepresenting whatever state she happens to be from this week.

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Inevitable
Posted by: QQOblivion on Mar 20, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A recent poll shows McCain beating Obama, and beating Hillary by more. While another poll shows the media-concocted "pastor-gate" has led to a wide lead for Hillary over Obama.
Hey, I not only think McCain will win, sadly, but I think it could be a landslide.
I have accepted that McCain will win, and that this will lead to war ON AMERICAN SOIL, perhaps even nuclear war.

Just close your eyes. It will be all over soon...

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» RE: Inevitable Posted by: anna132
The Lethal Cocktail, The Perfect Storm for defeat...
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Mar 20, 2008 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes Hillary and Obama are destroying the Democrats chances of removing the Republican horde and barbarians from the White House...

Without any doubt unequivocally I could say more but it would not be ideologically pure enough for most here to receive well..

Obama and Hillary are the "perfect storm" "the lethal mix cocktail" that will kill our chances as Democrats to be done with these ruinous Republicans..

"So it goes..."

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Can anyone suggest a sane country to move to
Posted by: Ellie1 on Mar 20, 2008 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if McCain wins in November?

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Hillary's "moment"
Posted by: jebpgh on Mar 20, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've said before and I will say it again, the Clintons had a windown open after the Potomac primaries and then again after Mississippi - the moment to announce she was suspending her campaign and supporting the nominee of the party for the sake of unity and victory in November. Instead she insisted on fighting about Florida and Michigan, promoting the race issue and indirectly lending support to the Preacher story. I'm afraid for our future and our party right now. I'm even more afraid that her selfish agenda will have led to the destruction of the republic.

It's not too late. She can stop now - but we all know she won't. She will beat this until there is nothing left. She may even finally win the nomination by sheer brutality. Hope is not a plan I guess - how right she was - hopelessness is the way.

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I Question the accuracy of the poll and when was it done...
Posted by: djnoll on Mar 20, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On two news reports just last night, the figures still showed that both Hillary and Obama could both beat McCain in November, with Hillary only 2 points ahead of Obama on that score against McCain. I would seriously question the Zogby poll since in recent months that poll has been very inaccurate, which is surprising since it is usually one of the most accurate. Could it be that it is showing its bias for Republicans?

I have watched this campaign since its inception in 1999 as Billy was getting ready to leave the White House and Hillary was establishing residency in NY. And, I said then as now that if Hillary were ever elected President, I would emigrate! But, I won't, I will instead work hard to see that she is impeached at the first opportunity by a Congress filled with Independents and Republicans. She will get stuck with just such a Congress because her husband likes Republicans (with all their bigotries and elitist attitudes and money) and with Independents who were voted in to make sure that she could not keep the powers Bush secured for the Presidency. She will create more gridlock in Washington because she is that divisive, and she will destroy the Democratic party and its chances of complete control of Congress. She will tear this country apart with racial hatred and poor judgment on social and military matters, and she will destroy us with her arrogance and her husband's co-presidency (which her campaign is really all about anyway.)

It is time for Hillary and Bill to leave the stage of Democratic politics and let a real President who can unite the people and win both the White House and Congress for the Democrats and the Independents move ahead. That would be the true sign of leadership - putting the good of the party and the nation ahead of personal ambition, arrogance, greed, and lust for power. Unfortunately, Hillary has shown that she has none of the qualities of a good leader, so she will not withdraw.

Note: If Obama's people are smart, they will challenge every change of party registration in PA before the primary. If any Republican changes party, their votes should be challenged in the primary as not being legitimate, just as they should be disallowed in Texas, Ohio, and Mississippi-and should have been on those primary days. The Republicans want Hillary as the candidate against McCain, because they know that a white woman with a husband who supports their various agendas (and always has)will be easier to beat than an African-American man with principles and judgment who appeals to people across all ages and races.

HILLARY GET OUT OF THE RACE NOW! YOU CANNOT WIN IN NOVEMBER AND YOU ARE DESTROYING THIS NATION BY CARRYING ON THIS CAMPAIGN!

http://www.standanddeliveramerica.com

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Polls in March mean nothing
Posted by: foreverhope on Mar 20, 2008 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Popularity polls NOW mean nothing in the general, that is silly. You think a poll in March means something about November? No.

Others have already pointed out it is not Obama that is tearing the democrats apart. Can anyone EVER make The Clintons take responsibility for their own actions?

Consider: the Clintons could have prepared for primaries and caucuses after February 5 – so-called Super Tuesday, when 24 states held their presidential nomination vote – as any careful candidate would. They chose not to do any of these things. Not because they are incompetent. But because they live to risk.

The Clintons destroyed the Party in the 90s and they are doing it again.

By 1998 under the Clinton co-presidency, the GOP gained 48 seats in the House, 8 seats in the Senate, 11 governorships, and 1,254 seats in state legislatures, and that during their tenure, 439 (out of 1,998 Democrats) became Republicans as opposed to 3 Republicans who became Democrats.

Hillary Clinton is so bent on winning the White House that she will put Obama and the entire Democratic Party under the bus if necessary. I mean, how sad is it to declare John McCain would be better for the country than her Democratic competitor?

When you ask for her taxes, you get compared to Ken Starr? how disingenuous is that?

Hillary rejected a bipartisan compromise on health care that had lots of support after her version had failed in 1993. It would have covered tons of people, if not everyone. But she killed it, all or nothing.

If she doesn't get what she wants, she torpedos any alternatives. Integrity doesn't matter. Character doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter. The democratic party doesn't matter. For The Clintons only getting what they want matters.

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the media's self-fulfilling prophecy
Posted by: batteredup on Mar 20, 2008 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media barks for weeks about how the obama-clinton feud will tear the Dems apart and lose the election ... how does that make sense? At the end of the day McCain is still a doddering old warhorse with an antiquated perception of how the world should be. They look for trends, try to predict trends and ultimately try to make them become reality; i.e., Dennis Kucinich is unelectable when his policies, ethical standards and programs are STILL miles more developed, practical and beneficial to the majority of Americans and the world as a whole. And when the primaries are finally over and the Dem nominee can focus entirely on proving McCain is not Abel to lead, only a Diebold-GOP vote-caging conspiracy can steal another election. Even the fear of Billary's vote for war can be turned around to a positive - at least she learned from her mistake -- McCain wants to continue it another 100 years. With political transvestite and jewish war monger Joe Liarman at his side. (how can connecticut be so damn stupid???) Their con that the violence in Iraq is lessening, allegedly proving the surge is working will fall to pieces by November. How much longer will al-Sadr continue his cease-fire as the Iraqi puppetparliment sells oil rights to chevron-bp-shell-exxon? How much longer will the various leaders of the insurgencies stay on the sidelines with the prospects of unending war in a McCain regime? And how much longer will the American media get away with lying about the erroneous success of the surge?
Then we have the economy. The Bush regime is equally inept at directing the economy as they are at running a war. Many people vote with their pocketbooks. Another disaster for the Gestapo On Parade.
So how does McCain lead Obama 46-40 and Clinton 48-40 in Zogby polls released yesterday?
Makes absolutely no sense unless they're polling in a republican vacuum. With Dems outvoting GOPs by 2-to-1 in primaries. American voters have shown themselves to be incredibly stupid, but this would be a new low. I smell a rat Roving about. What I really fear is McCain's running mate. Jeb? Liarman? Jewliani? A warmonger in the wings waiting for McCain to keel over from cancer. He's had two operations and has what looks like a tumor the size of a baseball on his left cheek. That ain't a wad of chewing tobacco aimed at getting the redneck vote out. He could challenge William Henry Harrison's record for short-term adminstrations; providing he can last till January.
I smell several rats.

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» RIGHT ON! Posted by: foreverhope
Here's the rub.
Posted by: luckypuck on Mar 20, 2008 10:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a sense around the country that many voters will vote Democrat in November not because the party is so good, but because the Republicans are so bad. That bodes ill for the United States no matter who wins the presidency.

One big swiftboating of either Democrat could send disgruntled, disappointed swing voters either to vote for McCain or stay home and watch reruns on TV. Many already are disgruntled and disappointed because the Democrats seem willing to sacrifice the election for the nomination.

Everyone who cares to vote Democrat already knows both candidates' positions on the issues, however vague and lacking in specifics. Anyone with a lick of sense also is aware of the issues they are ducking and, sadly for the country, why that's still better than the Republicans' platform.

None of the Democrat candidates gives any details for what they promise, and McCain's promises are clearly promises he CAN'T keep, probably doesn't have any intention of keeping. Lately, his proposed foreign policy has finally kicked up a notch from non-existent to ill-informed. His proposed domestic policies have settled into the comfort zone once described by Ronald Reagan as "smoke and mirrors," combined with the comfort zone of Geo. Bush, "Oh, really? That's interesting. I didn't know that."

What I think we all would like to see is Obama and Clinton stop this internecine bickering and, one, stick to the issues, defining and refining them for the voters right up to the election; and, two, they should combine to inform the voters of the reasons we shouldn't vote for McCain or any Republican ever again anywhere throughout the land. Not ever again. Just imagine if the two-party system should evolve into Democrats and Libertarians. A consummation devoutly to be wished?

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Corporatists In Charge
Posted by: Urgelt on Mar 20, 2008 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call me paranoid. I started to embrace the label after the 2000 election, in which vote tampering clearly stole the election.

We paranoids see a pattern here:

McCain - takes corporatist money.

Clinton - takes corporatist money.

Obama - doesn't.

Now, if you're a corporatist, and you have strings to two of the three remaining candidates, and Obama starts to look like a serious threat, what do you do?

You yank on Clinton's string and instruct her to take Obama down, even if it means her own candidacy crashes and burns. Because a McCain win, or a Clinton win, either is fine. An Obama win is not.

And that's how it's playing out. Clinton has gone low with her campaign, very low. Her tactics are repugnant; they make us recoil in disgust. She ramped up "identity politics." She trotted out rapid-fire dirty tricks that would make Nixon blush. She managed to blame Obama for disenfranchising Michigan and Florida - a decision he didn't make. She even compares McCain favorably to Obama.

Who benefits?

McCain, obviously. But you can be sure Clinton benefits, too. She might not take the Presidency, but the corporatists take care of their own.

The best-kept secret in America is the Clintons' tax records since Hillary's election to the Senate.

Being paranoid, and believing that corporists are deadly earnest about retaining their grip on American politics, I don't think that Obama will win. If he bests Clinton and looks strong against McCain, in spite of Clinton's best efforts to derail him, I think we'll see another assassination.

That's the sort of nation we've become, to a paranoid.

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oxheadone
Posted by: oxheadone on Mar 21, 2008 1:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain is a very angry man; he is trying to win the Vietnam war in Iraq. No matter what the democrats do, they should win an overwhelming victory in November as a proper public reaction to the Bush administration. If we fail to get this public rejection of the republicans, the US is well on its way to becoming a banana republic.

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