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A Democratic "Dream Ticket": Unavoidable?

Posted by Chris Bowers, Open Left at 3:10 PM on March 5, 2008.


Obama is the favorite, but Ohio and Texas made it clear he hasn't positioned a clear majority of the Democratic coalition behind him yet.
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Clinton and Obama

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We might be getting to the point where political considerations of party unity might force both Clinton and Obama onto the ticket for the fall. In fact, as was often suggested by her campaign before Obama's string of February victories, Clinton suggests that by voting for her, Democrats can get Obama, too:

Asked on CBS's The Early Show whether she and Obama should be on the same ticket, Clinton said: "That may be where this is headed, but of course we have to decide who is on the top of ticket."

To a certain extent, this feels like an attempt at placating Obama supporters. However, it also seems more apparent that neither Clinton nor Obama currently have a clear majority of the Democratic coalition behind them, and both might need the other to unite the party. Then again, after both candidates have decried the other's judgment and / or ability to handle national emergencies and major foreign policy decisions, does an Obama-Clinton or Clinton-Obama ticket make sense anymore? It is a little hard to swallow for a candidate to imply that someone would not be a good President, and then turn around and put that person in a position to become President.

This is a bit of a mess. One thing I will say is if Clinton wants to imply that she will pick Obama to be Vice-President, she should stop implying that Obama couldn't handle a national emergency. That is just disingenuous, since usually vice-Presidents become presidents in the case of a national emergency. If Clinton really wants Obama to be her VP, then she stop offering reasons why he would not be a good VP.

****

MOVING FORWARD: Obama Needs to Win Pennsylvania

I had a difficult time falling asleep last night, as I couldn't shake the feeling that something terrible had happened. On the one hand, there is still pretty much no way for Clinton to win without a protracted fight involving superdelegates, the credentials committee, and a Michigan delegation that can only be described as an abomination of democracy. On the other hand, there is also no way to justify her leaving the campaign at this point, since she did just win a popular vote victory of about 250,000 last night. In short, right now an extended campaign that eventually produces a clear outcome is the only way to avoid a large number of people viewing the Democratic nominee as illegitimate / weak. Inexorably, the campaign must now move on at least until Pennsylvania and, unless Obama wins in Pennsylvania, probably until at least June.

So, this could be bad. However, in the clear light of day, I realize that there is no reason for me to moan and wail. What is done is done, and we have to play the hand that has been dealt. Here is what needs to happen moving forward:

  1. The eventual nominee needs to be on a winning streak. Whichever Democrat is winning primaries and caucuses at any given moment will be the Democrat with momentum for the general election. Stumbling home to the nomination on the back of a string of defeats will make the nominee weak in the general election. This is what happened to Walter Mondale in 1984, who lost something like eight or nine of the final ten primaries and caucuses, and it killed him in the general election. Whoever wins the nomination needs to do so while winning primaries and caucuses, not losing them.

  2. Obama needs to improve. A close look at the delegate math shows that Obama is still the favorite for the nomination, since Clinton needs a string of contingencies to all fall into place just in order to draw even.  However, while Obama is the favorite, last night's contests should have made it clear that Obama has not positioned a clear majority of the Democratic coalition behind him yet. Further, despite the calls I have seen in some parts of the blogosphere, Clinton is under no obligation to drop out. If a candidate is still winning states, making delegate and popular vote gains, and still has a chance to win the nomination, it would actually be really bad for the party if that candidate dropped out. Just like a candidate who stumbles home to the nomination, it would create a perception of weakness and illegitimacy in the nominee among many voters for a candidate to drop out after a series of victories. So, in order to end the campaign and unite the party behind him, the pressure is on Obama to improve and deal the knockout blow that he was unable to deal last night, not on Clinton to drop out.

  3. This can't go on forever. To date, the lengthy nomination campaign has generally been a positive. It has generated massive press for Democrats, significantly enhanced our fifty-state and activist infrastructure, and forced both Clinton and Obama to improve as candidates on multiple occasions. However, there is also a point of diminishing returns, where the campaign can become too divisive, too nasty, and start drying up our general election advantages. While it is difficult to tell exactly when we turn the corner and the length of the campaign starts to become a negative, but allow me to humbly suggest that point is May 7th, the day after the North Carolina and Indiana primaries. Pennsylvania, Indiana, and North Carolina are actually all key electoral states at the presidential and / or congressional level, and as such I see mostly benefits from spending a lot of time campaigning in those three large states. Combined, they represent about 10% of the national population, and an even larger percentage of swing electoral votes and key congressional seats. Also, there are still six full months between May 6th and the general election, which is more than enough time to press our advantages nationwide.

    However, after the May 6th primaries, there are very few nomination events remaining. Further, if the campaign has not been decided by that point, there is probably no way to keep the decision from dragging out before eventually ending in a smoky backroom and angering a sizable number of Democratic voters. So, ending the campaign on or before May 7th seems fine, but if it keeps going after that point, we could be in some trouble.

Add these three propositions together, and it boils down to a single scenario: Obama needs to win Pennsylvania. If Obama wins Pennsylvania, he will go on to win Indiana and North Carolina, giving him the winning streak he needs for general election momentum. Further, given that Pennsylvania is probably even more demographically favorable to Clinton than Ohio (an older population and a closed primary), it will demonstrate great improvement on his party, and serve as a knockout blow (especially if he has drawn even on superdelegates by that point). Yet further, it will have allowed him to build a truly national infrastructure, and leave him plenty of time for him and other Democrats to press our general election advantages against McCain and Republicans. However, if Obama loses Pennsylvania, we could be in a world of hurt where the nominee stumbles home to the nomination and where our general election advantages do not have enough time to assert themselves.

That's how I see it. If Obama wins Pennsylvania, then everything is fine, and possibly even better than if Obama had wrapped things up last night. If Clinton wins Pennsylvania, then there might be no end in sight, no way for the nominee to unite the party, and our general election advantages disappear. However, it is up to Obama to pull this off, not on Clinton to back down and / or drop out. There are 48 days until the Pennsylvania primary.  

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Tagged as: clinton, obama, democratic party

Chris Bowers was a full-time editor at MyDD from May 2004 until June 2007. Some of his projects have included the creation of the Liberal Blog Advertising Network, the first scientifically random poll of progressive netroots activists, the Use It Or Lose It campaign, the nation's most accurate forecast of Democratic house pickups in 2006, and the 2006 Googlebomb the Elections campaign.


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This whole idea is compeltely silly~!
Posted by: sui_generis on Mar 5, 2008 3:19 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is ridiculous.

WHY ARE WE CHANGING THE RULES FOR HILLARY CLINTON?

Is it because people feel sorry for her? I'm sorry, but mathematically, there is no way for her to win the nomination without winning every single contest that's left by double digits, which is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Especially considering both campaigns agree that she's going to lose the next two, Wyoming and Mississippi.

So why is everyone so eager to give her a do-over? People are actually considering letting her go back on the pledge she signed when the entire Democratic party de-certified Florida and Michigan! People are actually considering that the media has "been too tough on her," simply for calling her on bullshit that's TRUE. People are actually considering voting for a phony, triangulating Democrat-In-Name-Only that uses slimy Republican tactics against her own fellow party members because she MUST win at ANY cost! And now, people are actually considering letting Hillary join Obama on a joint ticket, just to placate her supporters, who engage in "magical thinking" and don't see to be able to accept that there are RULES AND LAWS when it comes to elections?

I'm really very sorry for Senator Clinton and her supporters, but LOSING is LOSING. You LOST. Please GO AWAY instead of destroying the Democratic party. Goodbye.

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» Got Anger? Posted by: arieden
» No kidding! Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
The people of Ohio are Charlie Brown...
Posted by: truthteller on Mar 5, 2008 3:28 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Hillary is Lucy and NAFTA is the football. Hillary suckered the people of my native Buckeye State and pulled the football out from under them. How can the wife of the main proponent of NAFTA honestly argue that she has opposed it? She lies like a rug about most things. I'm not thrilled with Obama either. I already decided to vote Green if Kucinich or Edwards were not the nominee. I can tell you that if I had been inclined to vote for Obama, there is no way in living Hell that I would EVER vote for ANY ticket that has Hillary on it.

It has nothing to do with her being a woman. It has everything to do with her being a Clinton, and a DLC corporatist tool. Obama unfortunately falls under the same umbrella. There isn't a dime's worth of significant difference between them on most policy issues. I'm sure that I'm far from the only progressive who will refuse to vote for any ticket she's on.

So, it's close. My prediction, the delegate count stays at about the same ratio until PA. Hillary wins there narrowly. The super delegates decide to do the "adult" thing and fall in-line to give the nomination to Hillary - causing the greatest mass disappointment of the will of the people since Humphrey was the nominee in '68. Upshot - say hello to President McCain.

The upside could be the final fall of the DLC sell-out machine and the start of a true revival of a progressive Democratic party.

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The compromise I would like to see...
Posted by: arieden on Mar 5, 2008 3:38 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary at the top of the ticket with Obama as her VP. She promises she will serve 1 term ( I think at 65 she will have had enough) and then it's his turn. It will then be in his interest (and hers) to work together to make their administration a success. Obama will be 50 when he would run in 2012 (a very good age) and he will be more experienced and I believe more presidential. (I'm not knocking him - he's young)
I really do believe that they could make a great team and would complement each other very well.

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» 2nd place gets the top spot? Posted by: hurricane hugo
My HOPE exactly
Posted by: Rosasharn on Mar 5, 2008 4:22 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They will absolutely WIN if they're together. This is the ticket America has been waiting for . . . THE WINNING TICKET. Now, if the gentleman Obama would kindly take the back seat, the top spot could be his at a later date.

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» RE: My HOPE exactly Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: My HOPE exactly Posted by: wwittman
» RE: My HOPE exactly Posted by: Longdream
Interesting scenario, but...
Posted by: Frank J. Burris on Mar 5, 2008 4:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I for one won't be supporting any ticket with an Iraq hawk on it. If Obama wins, I hope he picks a running mate that also opposed the war before it became politically popular to do so.

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» RE: Interesting scenario, but... Posted by: fluffmuffinmom
These are good points
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier on Mar 5, 2008 10:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was thinking that it would be in everyone's best interest for Hillary to drop out now (including hers). The only way she can get the nomination now is by specious methods, which will surely cost her in the general election.

So as you say, if Obama wins Pennsylvania, it is the best case scenario here. I think he has a decent shot to do it. He has been at his best when there has been time for a constituency to get to know him. With Texas, Ohio, and Vermont all voting together, just two weeks after the previous primary, he was at a disadvantage. If he works his tail off in Pennsylvania, he should win it.

Of course, winning states is totally irrelevant (be they big, small, black or white).

I don't see a "dream ticket" under any scenario. Hillary says she's up for it now, but that's only because she's behind in the delegate count.

Fight the Youth

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She PROMISES?
Posted by: Longdream on Mar 6, 2008 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She promises she'll run for only one term?

"OK. I know the law says I can have eight, but I PROMISE I'll have only four if you'll just get out of my way, let me have the damned Presidency and stop making me look bad! Never mind what the law says, Barack! It doesn't really matter compared to my WORD, does it?"

(Apologies to Hillary Clinton, who never said any such thing.)

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A GOOD IDEA FOR BOTH AND US
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 6, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama & Clinton like each other and have many of the same ideas. I beleve they would be a good team and Obama could run at a later date. He was raised by a single mother, has a strong, smart wife. He's not used to being surrounded by women who stand there and smile and pretend to be stupid.The fighting going on now is 'politics'. It's what's expected of them. I don't want to lose either of them so I'll take both. Thanks, ANNA

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It is completely ridiculous
Posted by: andrushka on Mar 6, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for the two senators have huge egos oftheir own and they would constantly clash. Moreover, it would be a waste of talent for at least one of them.

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Why is everyone so nasty on this site?
Posted by: arieden on Mar 6, 2008 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So much anger, nastiness, stubbornness, extremism. What's going on here?

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Lose-Lose Ticket?
Posted by: QQOblivion on Mar 6, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A ticket with both Obama and Clinton on it may at first seem like a good idea to Democrats. But keep in mind that many people prefer Obama mostly because he is not Hillary, and many people prefer Hillary because she is not Barack.
And besides, if they run together the Republicans will simply re-run clips of them both attacking each other on the issues.

So perhaps, if they run together we should all get used to saying this two-word phrase:
President McCain.

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you're forgetting how Clinton won on Tuesday
Posted by: batteredup on Mar 6, 2008 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only reason Clinton won in Ohio and Texass was the Rush Windbagg-inspired republican lemmings crossed over to "bloody Obama" as their goatherder encouraged.

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» Update: Obama on track to win Texas Posted by: hurricane hugo
Odd
Posted by: Aaunk on Mar 6, 2008 4:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think its odd that Clinton and her supporters assume she would be the presidential nominee even though she is behind in delegates and is likely to finish behind.

Would Clinton agree that whoever has the most delegates, not including supers, FL or MI, after the last primary is the Presidential nominee and the other is the VP?

I can’t really see an Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama ticket having any hope of winning. There are not big differences on most issues, but the organization, style and strategy of the two campaigns are totally different. Trying to combine them sounds like a sure prescription for a dysfunctional campaign from day one.

My dream team - Barack Obama and Kathleen Sebelius.

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» RE: Odd Posted by: Frank J. Burris
» RE: Posted by: Aaunk
I don't want her.
Posted by: osd on Mar 10, 2008 8:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is she the best we can do? I'm sorry, she is not the best we could do. To much big money for to long. Bill sold us out for NAFTA what deals has she made? I'm tired of deals that leave WE THE PEOPLE sucking hind tit. I want my country back. The military has become a big monster that has a hunger that can not be stopped. We have got to say NO to the military. All the want and waste that goes on, and for what? So we can go squash other countries for there resources, for corporations. We have been doing that since the mid 1800's. This is just more Corp. welfare. The American oil companies got the bid for the oil, let then hire Blackwater to guard there sorry asses, out of the Billions of dollars in profits that there making now. We can't afford this war for oil. Enough is enough. So having Hillary in the White House will be just more of the same BAD politics with a Democratic name on it.

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