I had a discussion with a young woman at a local festival last Memorial Day holiday. She described herself as "pro-life", and attributed that position to the fact that she had been adopted. Failing to see the connection, I inquired further. She told me that, had her parents chosen abortion, she wouldn't be alive today.
I still couldn't see a rational connection, so I asked her whether she thought it should ever be appropriate for a woman to be forced to give birth to a child. She answered, "No, being pro-life is just a personal choice for me. I think women should always have access to safe abortion services."
So, I told her that her position was actually pro-choice... it was simply that she, herself, might not be inclined to abort. She looked somewhat surprised when, looking at another woman present for the discussion, she absorbed her affirming nod.

I sure hope this sort of misunderstanding is not out there in large part affecting political outcomes.

Aside from that, I often wonder why it is so hard to find an atheist woman to date... they seem so damned rare... and it simply baffles me. I don't want to date a slave... I want a free woman!

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I thought that this little blog was kind of interesting. This is a logical parallel to draw on--the relations of feminism and atheism-- but I felt that maybe the author klumped organized religion and spirituality together implying that they are one and the same. I would argue that these two concepts are not the same--I think religion and spirituality can complement one another, but I think that they are entirely different concepts.

I would imagine that maybe the number of women who adhere to Christianity--or other "patriarchal" religions-- may decrease as a result of feminism, but I do not think that spirituality within a feminist's life is all that different. There is a plethora of outlets for a feminist to find spiritual fulfillment, some in an organized setting, others through themselves or a more personal solitary sort of setting.

I was raised in a Protestant household, with "feminism" being a naughty word. I would say now that I am a feminist but I do not feel like my spiritual life has been affected. I may practice in a different way, but I would say that I am probably more spiritual since studying and embracing the concepts of feminism.

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Most of the traditions of oppression we are talking about began thousands of years before modern scientific knowledge. If you want to talk about Christianity specifically, many of their attitudes towards women began in Judaism, and stem from the laws of the Old Testament. Where laws are made, there is something occuring which is feared by someone. Look at women from the point of view of a man who has no scientific knowledge: Women can bleed heavily for a week without dying. In fact, they can walk around as if nothing were happening at all. If a man bleeds for a week, he's likely dead or in serious trouble. A woman has the ability to create new life in her body, and to bring a new person into the world. Talk to any man who's watched his wife give birth - especially if she went without painkillers - and you can see the raw awe in his face. Though we now understand that a man contributes half the genetics of the child, there is still no way for him to bear children. A woman's monthly cycles closely follow the cycles of the moon, as does her pregnancy - even seen from the point of view of a people who scientifically understand how the female body works, this is still mystifying. Imagine how it must have seemed to people in ancient times!

Now tell me: if you were a man living 2500 years ago, wouldn't what women do intimidate you? Maybe even seem supernatural to you? And it's not just a single woman here or there who has this power; it's your mother, your sisters, your wife, your daugthers! You're surrounded! So it shouldn't surprise us that men sought to demonize the capabilities of womens bodies, to declare their cycles "unclean", and paint women as little more than empty-headed vessels for bearing their seed. From an ancient man's perspective, if there was something supernatural about women, imagine the authority they might lay claim to if they ever had the slightest inkling of their own power! Indeed, there are a few very rare places in the world where sociologists still find remote tribes that live in a matriarchial community based off this idea, and where the men believe that women are rightfully in charge because of the powers of their bodies. So if a man felt his power or authority might be threatened, what else could he do but try to control the women who were that threat?

I think that the author makes a mistake when she says organized religion is the source of women's oppression. It's not the source. Fear is the source; religion is the tool used to implement it. This may explain the appeal of the reconstructionist Pagan religions: they give women (and men!) a new way of viewing women's bodies which is respectful of what women are capable of doing, acknowledges that they are an equal authority to men when it comes to the community, family, and faith, and invites women and men both to embrace a new way for women to engage in their spirituality in full authority of themselves, rather than having to practice her faith through the authority of a man. It's an interesting twist that these religions are gaining more and more adherents at a time when women are only just (within the past 100 years) starting to search for their independence and self-identity within their own faith. I wonder if the trend will continue.

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it often occurs that people of the atheist view tend to combine religion and spirituality. as a recovering mormon, i can easily understand that someone who feels hurt and betrayed by religion will want to throw the god/dess out with the religion. but there comes a point in life when one must keep going through 'the fairy tale' until one finds meaning for this existance...the essence. perhaps a step toward that meaning is in letting go of this religion/spirituality connection that has allowed religions to dominate, not only to dominate women, but also the whole idea of god/dess and spirituality. some organized religions are the furthest ones from god/dess. i think the author's article speaks mainly of her unresolved anger toward religion and not of rational deduction regarding feminists and non/god/dess beliefs.

one reason women turn to god/dess and/or religion more than men is because we have been 'allowed' to retain our humanness in the narrow confines of our gendered role, and therefore can account for feelings of service, tenderness and love for others. because the male stereotype has devalued these universal emotions, doesn't take away our human need and right for it. let us not take on the same ugliness by being ashamed and denying a needed motivator for positive behavior just because it is championed by women. let us not insult each other with assumptions that these feelings and actions are those of a dominated person.

the author's mistake in trying to comment on feminists and religion and spirituality showed her inability to understand belief in god/dess. that can offer light into why she also has trouble to see why spiritual feminists would or could be against the choice for abortion. had she considered that a belief in a higher being could cause a woman's respect for life to be such that she can never 'choose' to 'eliminate' a life developing in her body or anyone else's, she might also see the hope i, and feminist like me, feel in considering alternatives to the abortion debate.

we do have a RIGHT to choice before we become pregnant (and i don't mean the fairy tale of abstinence). unfortunately, the resources necessary to fight for everyone's right to BIRTH CONTROL have been distracted elsewhere and wasted on defending an impossible separation, that of our body and a child's life, which will only continue taking us in an endless cycle of self-denial.

we live in a very modern world technically speaking and there is no excuse for the fact that a woman should have to be pregnant when she doesn't want to be. that any women or girl should be denied that control is to force her into a situation/choice that she can never win is an outrage. wouldn't our money and resources be better spent in finding the way to make that human right possible for all? if every one had access and rights to real birth control on the obvious grounds that they are able to reproduce, (and i don't mean the worthless pill, instead some of the advanced techniques that are used in europe for example, like the mirena spiral which takes no effort and is extremely reliable, or something that is waiting even now to be revealed....) then we as women could take back the right not be put in a situation where we have to take life in order to have the right to our bodies.

i don't desire here to try and persuade anyone to abandon their philosophies, just to perhaps cause you to hesitate before stereotyping a group because your own understanding of their position is lacking. as a feminist, the author's lack of academy is embarrassing.... but i forgive her cause i know we're all doing the best we can.... :)

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Even though it's not as bad as it was millenia ago, most religions, including Christian, ARE still oppressive towards women.

BTW, I'm male, so don't assume I'm a Feminist.

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... whether femnism coincides with religions decline is quite irrelevant, the fact of the matter is, the new atheists are not reproducing, without a positive birthrate among the non-believers, you're still outbred in the end by those that do. Canada is importing immigrants from all over with their different faiths, so if anything it's quite irrelevant, whether canada will survive another 100 years I really doubt. The NAU (North american union) is coming, that I can gaurantee.

Once the original Canadian population dies out their values go with them.

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Interesting... that women are responsible for increased atheism. Great! Whatever works!

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