until those wingnuts admit they were wrong will only result in you passing out. I thought the Iraq Study Group had many interesting points, i.e. talking to Iran and Syria and addressing the Palestinian crisis. Of course, the very next time I saw Shrub on the tube, he went back to his old '..no talking unless you stop enriching uranium' crap. Same old shit, he is incapable of learning, thinking. And of course he'll never make Israel face up to its illegal and immoral occupation. Same old, same old........I'm afraid not much will change when the dems have some power
DISCOURAGED IN SEATTLE

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No Iraqi wishes to leave their beloved country for no reason. However, many Iraqis are quitting the country because of the life of hell that now exists in Iraq.

The frightening fleeing rate of Iraqis from their country is a sign of the sheer disaster that has engulfed Iraq every since the US-led invasion-turned-occupation reached Baghdad, sacked its entire civil service of 3,000,000 serving Iraqis, and destroyed that state which had been functioning for some 80 years.

The reports coming from various European asylum centres show beyond any doubt the continued soaring number of Iraqi refugees escaping their homeland and now living in such centres awaiting the opportunity to find a country that can give then sanctuary from the life of hell in Iraq, many of whom don’t have the large sums of money to pay the smugglers for the 'journey of hell out of hell’. Those Iraqis often remain stuck in Jordan, Syria, Turkey and/or Iran as they wait for that moment when they can leave. Some never leave! Syria and Jordan are flooded with refugess.

The life of hell which has taken over Iraq can easily explain the recent estimate of the number of 650,000 dead Iraqis, and the killing process meanwhile continues. In the last month of October alone, the counted number of Iraqi dead is 3750. These terrifying statistics don’t express in anyway the social consequences of the invasion-turned-occupation. People’s lives have been destroyed along with their livelihoods. Iraqis now live in constant fear of the unknown which was created by the chaos that has reached every neighbourhood, every avenue, every home and every family. Over 2,000,000 Iraqis have fled their Iraq in the past 4 years and an average of 3,000 is leaving everyday. The invasion-turned-occupation along with its 'local lapdogs’ have managed to kill in three years more Iraqis than Saddam’s regime did in his 30 years!

As part of its strategy of 'divide and conquer’, the invasion-turned-occupation has been consistently pursuing a divisive policy of sectarianism, thus propping up a criminal faction whilst fighting those whom it sees as potential enemy. Thus, the occupation’s war propaganda has been spending billions of dollars, 'befriending’ the Shias of Iraq by propping up the Shia political factions and creating ally of their militias whilst exploiting sectarianism as a wedge to keep the Shia and Sunni people of Iraq. However, the ethnicity of the fleeing Iraqis makes a mockery of the occupation’s war propaganda and its government for Iraq. If the southern Iraqis are free from Saddam’s tyranny, as the occupation keeps reminding the Iraqi Shias, then one asks why are they leaving the south of Iraq in large numbers?

And if the Kurdish Iraqis of the north are living out their dream of "federalism and democracy", then why the continued increase in the rate of Kurds leaving Iraqi Kurdistan?

The constant flow of news of horrors which are confirmed by the official reports published by respected international asylum agencies clearly show that the average number of Iraqis fleeing Iraq for the fear of their lives is constantly increasing since the beginning of the occupation and that the greatest wave of fleeing Iraqis has been recorded in the past few months; that is after the establishment of a 'permanent Iraqi government’. Syria, Jordan and Turkey lead the list of countries receiving Iraqi refugees who are pouring into these countries and add to those Iraqis who had left because of the US-UK bombardment of Iraqi cities during the US-UK murderous sanction regime against the people of Iraq...

by jamal taqi
AlQuds AlArabi.

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It's been interesting spending some time in Egypt and reading the local news and news from the US, UK and other countries.

Despite Bush's reluctance to confer with Syria and Iran, both countries are dialoguing with other heads of state and states-to-be. Several conferences on middle east peace have and are taking place. The assumption that Arab nations and others (Iran) are sitting idly by while everything goes down the crapper simply isn't true. In fact, by all accounts that I've read, these nations ARE involved RIGHT NOW in negotiating and trying to influence the region. The accounts of bloodshed horrifies everybody and no one wants it to continue. However, the man on the street I've talked to believes that things will get worse if the Americans pull out.

The problem facing everyone is that the Americans have let this deteriorate for so long that no one has a clear answer as to what to do about it. 'Pull out and let them kill each other' doesn't sit right with anyone and many fear far more deaths and a spill over into their countries.

Even imams have called on sparing the lives of fellow Muslims but things are spinning out of control in Iraq in a beserker frenzy. No one is quite clear on what to do.

What IS actually happening is a major exodus from Iraq and other nations are absorbing the overflow. Sunnis are fleeing to Syria (which is busting at the seams given the Lebanon conflict) and Jordan (which has its hands full with Palestinians). It is of vital concern to all in the region to stabilize Iraq; problem is, again, no one is clear on how to do it.

Maybe that's Bush's strategy: Let others settle it and claim is was his 'stay the course' strategy that worked. I don't know. What I do know is that everyone is upset about it.

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this is not a civil war, foreign terrorists (al qaeda in iraq) committing most of the violence in the sunni triangle

this is the arabic language version

this is not a civil war, iran's government is exporting munitions and training iraqi militia to kill US troops and innocent iraqis

the sad part of this mess is that josh and his leftist friends "plan" for iraq is unconditional surrender to islamic extremist whether they be al qaeda or shia.

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I can't believe those yahoos still believe there's some mileage left in that lie. Either that or what they're really admitting is that they think that the mass murder of Iraqis is a good thing.

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its only considered 'bad news' by those people deluded enough to believe that the USA wanted to 'win' the war when the goal was simply to cause chaos and instability in the region and take off pressure to reform in Saudi, Qatar, Egypt, Pakistan, etc. Remember the way these people think. The neo-cons were used to fake evidence, push for war, and then screw it up. Now the oil money guys who could care less about any one nation can come in and 'solve the problem' along with having the fringe benefit of high energy prices, nice defense contracts, huge rebuilding contracts (even if nothing gets built), and a weakened dollar. Above them you have now the 'internationalists' who can come sweeping in to 'solve' the problem with various round-tables, treaties, UN highjinx, and gain more power to eliminate any nation's, or people's, soveriegn rights. After all there is so much terrorism that we really need to get rid of gun rights, Habeus Corpus, necessity of search warrants, etc.
Out of Choas Order.

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They're trotting out "the liberal media" story again - how predictable.

I'd say that the "Iraq Study Group" has one main goal - set up an alternate goalpost across from "Bush & Rumsfeld's War" - an attempt to frame the debate in terms that Big Oil finds comforting - it's just empty posturing. The Iraqi oilfields and the strength of the petrodollar are what this war and occupation have always been about - not that the corporate media would ever dare to raise that issue.

I mean, this is so friggin' pathetic... why are such large chunks of the American people so gullible? The educational system? In the sixties the hippies thought that dosing everyone with LSD would wake people up - let's see - wrong! (Probably didn't hurt, though - why are people so paranoid about hallucinogens when everyone's already drugged to the hilt on alcohol, cigarettes, cocaine, heroin, Prozac and Xanex?).

Free and independent media and reforming the educational system are the only things that will really work, I'm afraid.

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progressives have always undermined US attempts to stablize and democratize the world.

they undermined our efforts to stop the spread of genocidial communism during the cold war by claiming that the communist weren't really that bad and that the US policy was the "true" cause of the suffering in the world. note how vehemently they attacked Reagan for intervening in central America, a region that is now wholly democratic and peaceful

today in iraq, these deluded leftists are again providing essential aid and comfort to a brutal and dehumanizing enemy with rhetorical attacks on the US and our effort to stablize iraq.

to judge the veracity of the claims by progressives, look to areas of the globe where the US maintains hegemony: you will see peace, prosperity, and freedom. the Western hemisphere is the most peaceful, prosperous, and free region of its size in the history of mankind. formerly despotic and violent japan, europe, and pro-US areas in the pacific rim are peaceful, prosperous, and free.

note that the leaders, regimes, and regions that these progressives fawn over are ALWAYS despotic, impoverished, and violent.

judge for yourself: islamic extremism or America, progressives or truth.

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Soooooooooo ------ you are saying that you don't approve of the 'Left'. Sure took you a lot of words for such a simple statement. Go for it! Someone as on top of things as yourself really might do better writing a book. Dealing with this leftie blog must be a terrible bore for you since most of us are so lost in the wilderness of 'Left Wing Thinking". I have noticed, tho, that trying to fly with just a right wing has brought us to a crash. Could it be that both wings are needed to fly in a straight line? Most birds think so.

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Has anyone taken the trouble to check on the radiation levels in the various parts of Iraq, lately? Bombs and artillery shells are often encased in what's called "delpeted" uranium, because uranium is very hard and dense and penetrates armor and concrete very well. The trouble with this is that, although "depleted", the uranium used is STILL radioactive, and the sheer volume of munitions used in Iraq makes for a lot of radioactive dust for our military members and Iraqis to breathe. The dust is so pervasive that radioactivity from Iraq has been detected in the soil in the United Kingdom. Can you imagine what it's like in Iraq? Does anyone know more about this?

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THERE IS STILL TIME TO IMPEACH GEO W(THE WEASEL) BUSH...THERE IS ENOUGH " CACA" ON HIM THAT ONE COULD PLANT 10,000+ ACRES OF MUSHROOMS...AND,JUST LOOK AT HIS HANDS WITH THE BLOOD OF OVER 100,000+ IRAQI CIVILIANS, OVER 2800+ SOLDIERS, AND OVER 18,000+ DISABLED VETERANS/CIVILIANS, ETC...

INCIDENTALLY, IF WE COULD JUST STORE/SAVE ALL THIS SPILLED BLOOD IN A BLOOD BANK, WE COULD REALLY HELP THE POOR, ETC...

IMPEACH GEORGE , YES, BECAUSE HE WON'T BUDGE FROM HIS FETAL AND IGNORANT VAIN POSITION..."WE WILL SECURE A VICTORY..." HE STILL DOES NOT GET IT..." HE DIDN'T GET IN SCHOOL AT HAVARD, YALE, ETC AND HE STILL DOESN'T GET IT...LEGACY...??? WHAT LEGACY...??? THERE ISN'T ENOUGH TOILET PAPER TO CLEAN GEO'S BULLSHIT AND TURD BLOSSOMS HE HAS LEFT BEHIND...HIS NAME WILL LIVE IN INFAMY AND WORSE THAN HERBERT HOOVER...

S+JIM+RODRIGUEZ+
+++ECLECTICIST SPIRIT SEEKER+++

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Bush makes Warren Harding look like a great statesman!

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