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Updated twice: Mega-church preacher Ted Haggard admits to "some indiscretions" [VIDEO]

Posted by Joshua Holland at 1:41 PM on November 3, 2006.


Using the services of a gay prostitute or smoking meth? Updated: admits to "massage"; says he bought drugs but didn't use them.

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2 Updates below

Updating Lindsay's post from yesterday, local news in Colorado is now reporting that Pastor Haggard admits to at least some of the charges levied against him by former male escort Mike Jones -- presumably the ones that can be verified by voicemail messages Jones claims to have saved for posterity.

KKTV News:

A sudden about-face in the scandal facing New Life Church's pastor.

After Pastor Ted Haggard went public Wednesday night denying allegations of a homosexual affair, senior church officials told KKTV 11News Thursday evening, Pastor Ted Haggard has admitted to some of the claims made by a former male escort. The church's Acting Senior Pastor, Ross Parsley, tells KKTV 11 News that Pastor Haggard has admitted to some of the indiscretions claimed by Mike Jones, but not all of them.

Thursday morning, Jones went on a Denver radio talk show and said Pastor Haggard paid him for sex over the past 3 years. Jones also claims Haggard used drugs with him.

Questions remain. Is this concrete evidence that God has now foresaken the Republicans? And how does this bear on James Wolcott's theory that "all Republican political figures are gay, especially the men"?

One thing's for sure: there's nothing more entertaining than watching one after another of America's self-appointed moral scolds being exposed as hypocrites. Schadenfreude's sweet!

Update 1: Oh, this is rich:

The Rev. Ted Haggard, who resigned as one of the nation's top evangelical leaders, admitted Friday he had contacted male prostitute Mike Jones for a massage and bought drugs from him.

Haggard said he never had sex with Jones and never used the methamphetamine drug he bought.

He did not name the hotel. "I did call him," Haggard said. "I called him to buy some meth, but I threw it away."

Haggard spoke to the Denver TV station from inside a car, with his wife, Gayle, in the passenger seat.

"I was buying it for me, but I never used it. I was tempted. ...

"He told me about it. I went there for a massage."

Yeah, that's the ticket. The hooker just gave me a massage. I bought the meth, but didn't use it. I didn't inhale!

The sad thing is that Haggard's followers will probably buy all that. After all, they throw millions of dollars at these "spiritual leaders" who are transparent con-men of the worst sort. They support Republicans who pay them lip service but ignore them until the next election rolls around. 'It's all political,' they're saying to themselves now -- part of the Grand Liberal Conspiracy® to tear down people of faith.

Eh, there's one born every minute.

Update 2:

The "church" has decided there's enough evidence of sexual hi-jinks to cut the Pastor lose.

CBS:

The Rev. Ted Haggard agreed to resign as leader of the New Life Church after its independent investigative board recommended removal, saying he was guilty "of sexually immoral conduct."

"We, the Overseer Board of New Life Church, have concluded our deliberations concerning the moral failings of Pastor Ted Haggard," a statement from the church said. "Our investigation and Pastor Haggard's public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct."

Digg!

Tagged as: religious right, election06, haggard

Joshua Holland is a staff writer at Alternet and a regular contributor to The Gadflyer.


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Where the heck is the american churches headed?
Posted by: truthseeker99 on Nov 3, 2006 4:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is absolutely unbelievable, and downright shameful. First, it was Roberts Liardon, now Ted Haggard. Looks like some people are really not taking their religious professions seriously.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I hope you were kidding Posted by: LeaderofMen
» Religion is inherently un-serious Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Two-way street there, bub. Posted by: MatthewSavage
» Yes, it makes you Ridiculous? Posted by: grumble-bum
Not shock... not believing!
Posted by: Meaningful on Nov 3, 2006 4:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope the newsmedia people are sued for defamation of character without supporting evidence. As far as his pseudoname being "art"...give me a break! And one word describing the evangelical community response is not shock, it is unbelief!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Not shock... not believing! Posted by: paul scott
Karma is a B*tch & I'm Smiling
Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 3, 2006 5:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Christian faith (not the NeoCon,Fascist, Repugnican kind) teaches that people are to judge others as we would like to be judged, that we should extend grace to others and that revenge is God's business. Some in the Evangelical/Political Cabal movement either never learned that or conveniently ignored it. Most NeoCon Evangelicals act as if we are living in a theocracy.

Nothing is more repugnant than a closeted gay man pretending to be one of 'God's soldiers' that worries about what other consenting adults do in their own bedrooms. Like Randi says on AAR about the NeoCons-
Come out, come out, wherever you are! (ROTFLMAO)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Anybody notice
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Nov 3, 2006 5:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that when Foley went down how stereotypical 'gay' his voice sounded? I had never heard him before but once I saw clips on CNN and YouTube he spoke like a Hollywood-movie stereotype lispof a gay guy. Now, frankly, I've never heard of this latest guy in the story or heard him speak so I'm curious if he also has that affectation in his voice?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Anybody notice Posted by: Malamute
» RE: Anybody notice Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Anybody notice Posted by: VannaLaRoche
Join the List of Hypocrites!!
Posted by: DanR on Nov 3, 2006 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as the good Rev. Ted Haggard joins the list of preachy, hypocrite right-wing moralists, I ask you, which is your favorite right-wing hypocrite?

Bill "Falafel" O'Reilly
Bill "Slot Jockey" and "Spank Me" Bennett
Rush "Pill Popper" Limbaugh
Mark "Protector of Missing and Exploited Children" Foley
Ralph "Humpin' Around" Reed

I feel like I'm missing a few. Any other suggestions?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Join the List of Hypocrites!! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Join the List of Hypocrites!! Posted by: Steve Adair
» RE: Join the List of Hypocrites!! Posted by: paul scott
» RE: Join the List of Hypocrites!! Posted by: TheShrubbist
» RE: Join the List of Hypocrites!! Posted by: buffeliscious
» sorry, but no ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Join the List of Hypocrites!! Posted by: WyrdSister
He ADMITs some of it, yet you still don't believe it?
Posted by: paul scott on Nov 3, 2006 7:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, are you saying Ted is a liar?
He addmitts some of it, so he's either on drugs, or getting drugs for someone else (unlikely) or he is into the sex, or he is doing both. So get real. Ted is human and for some reason strayed away from what he preaches to others.
As Christians, we are supposed to stand by him, but not condone his actions. But being in denial, helps no one.

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» Just one thing to add... Posted by: MatthewSavage
Measured Response
Posted by: TheShrubbist on Nov 3, 2006 7:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mike Jones FAILED his polygraph...We know a little about Ted Haggard but nothing about his accuser.

This is starting to smell the rush against John Mark Carr...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Measured Response Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Measured Response Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Measured Response Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Measured Response...Ah Ah Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: Measured Response Posted by: jmooney
get damn real
Posted by: grant henry on Nov 3, 2006 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of course it is true.

all men love their own penis.
it is a given
that all men are curious about other men's penises,
so sometime in life
all men with experiment
with another penis.

the problem is that this hypocrite lied.

i'm here to admit.
i've touched other penises.
penis is good.
my penis.
it's a fascinating god given phenomenon,
a toy that doesn't need batteries,
a sucker that never goes away!

get real conservative christian hypocrits!

just get together for wednesday night supper,
turn the damn lights off,
drop your pants
and get it over with...

let's get real in this country
before we blow our damn selves up!

the truth shall set you free!!!

NOTHING HARDER THAN A PREACHER'S DICK!

www.sisterlouisa.com

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» RE: get damn real Posted by: hangman
Faux news stations propaganda
Posted by: brad on Nov 3, 2006 9:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fox news is still running a headline that claims it is an attempt to use the allegations as political payback, then down in the article it states breifly that he has admitted to the alegations. Faithbased news?

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Lemme guess...
Posted by: Sushi on Nov 3, 2006 10:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...he's has an "alcohol problem" and was molested by a priest. Either that or " the Devil made him do it." Not his fault. Blame the prostitute for tempting him with all those tasty "forbidden fruits", he'll cry, beg forgiveness and be back on the pulpit railing against gays in a year or so. You just watch.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Lemme guess... Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Lemme guess...yup Posted by: Captainmagic
» Sorry World. Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Lemme guess... Posted by: VannaLaRoche
The Power of God
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Nov 3, 2006 10:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is it possible that one after another priest, minister and preacher succumbs to the pleasures of the flesh?

Catholic priests - altar boy diddling
Swaggert - porn and prostitutes
Haggert - gay hustler
Witnesses - diddling all those hundreds of girls
Popes - with kids, married, etc.
My sister the fundie - pregnant at 15, three kids by 19.

The list is endless. GET OVER IT PEOPLE. Religious attitudes about sex are FALSE. They're false because the book they use to lie to us about sex is WRONG. Their book is WRONG and is FILLED TO THE BRIM WITH LIES.

The evidence is in. It's been in for centuries. If you believe that your religion has the correct or right attitude with respect to healthy sexuality, you seriously need your head examined.

Keeping your virginity is a mentally unhealthy thing to do, not to mention physically unhealthy. Abstinence is a failure and can't be adhered to. Homosexuality has always been a part of every culture, and in all ages of every civilization.

Don't let this present dominant political administration skew the facts. We already know that ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE who demands that YOU need to follow some sort of religious rule about sexuality that they are demented. The evidence is all you need to know that. Stop it with your BELIEF. Your belief is false and is irrelevant against facts and evidence.

Leave people alone. People will have sex in every way imaginable and NO ONE will ever stop it. If you pay attention you will discover that ANYONE who every states that sex is somehow sinful or needs to be curtailed or altered or changed is themselves 'guilty' of exactly what they're telling you to stop or change or curtail.

The facts are in. Your beliefs are false and we all know it.

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Haggard
Posted by: FedUp on Nov 3, 2006 11:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
admitted to some of the allegations: he sucked but he didn't swallow.
Bless his heart!

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» Hah! Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Haggard Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I just bet you did, squire ;-) Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Haggard Posted by: Astroboy
» RE: Haggard Posted by: NonnyO
Now He Just Has to "Be Saved"
Posted by: sofla100 on Nov 3, 2006 1:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember, GW was busted for DUI and it was hidden away not coming out till just before the "fixed" 2000 election. Guys like GW and now this guy, who feel "divinely inspired" when it comes to preaching their relgious beliefs and agendas, just demonstrate how bad the hypocrisy and sanctimonious nonsense has spread. They are all like the people in the back of the Church who always "repent" on Sundays for the past weeks bad behavior. But need we worry, our dear evangelical leader is going to be saved you know. Just like GW Bush was saved, and went on to be the great leader he is now.

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hurray sorta
Posted by: insulaparadigm on Nov 3, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm kinda mixed about judging this guy - on one hand - he's bad... but what comes next... after we lost jim and tammy Jerry Fallwell took over. The eyes of tammy faye is a good movie I saw in person with her introducing. She's nuts but that's part of her intense charm. Be carefull about these type of things. The bakers were corrupt but I'll take them over Jerry any day. I'm not too familiar with just how homophobic this twerp is but the question is will the followers get it? Or just search for a more reliable bigot?
Meth does immense damage to people's lives - seeing friends faces covered in sores or watching them age at a massive clip or get hiv from unprotected sex. I bet he chickened out and I'm glad for his sake he did. I keep thinking "wise blood" from early hs but can't rememebr enough about the plot.

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» RE: hurray sorta Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Beauty Secrets Posted by: Artkansas
JESUS LOVES A COCKSUCKER
Posted by: grant henry on Nov 3, 2006 1:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
people:

JESUS LOVES GAYS
JESUS LOVES ATHEIST
JESUS LOVES CRACKWHORES
JESUS LOVES LESBIANS
JESUS LOVES COCKSUCKERS
JESUS LOVES ATHEIST
JESUS LOVES HYPOCRITS
JESUS AIN'T ABOUT "NOT" SUCKING COCK
JESUS COULDN'T CARE LESS

I WOULD IMAGINE JESUS LOVES US ALL?

HAGGARD COULD STILL BE "KING HAGGARD",
FULL OF POWER AND GLORY
IF HE DIDN'T PREACH AGAINST SUCKING COCK
AND JUST ADMITTED HE LIKED IT!

may the
GLORY
of god fill the
HOLE
in your soul.

www.sisterlouisa.com

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» RE: JESUS LOVES A COCKSUCKER Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: JESUS LOVES A COCKSUCKER Posted by: MatthewSavage
It is just a way to make easy money
Posted by: james2021 on Nov 3, 2006 3:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are no requirements that you actually believe what you say, and there is no way of telling what you believe. This has been the same game that Religious Leaders have been playing since the days of Moses. He was the first to use GOD as a reason for the Cannanite Genocide in the first book of the bible, because Moses and the leaders wanted the Cannanite land. So Moses tell them that GOD is displeased with the Cannanites, and they have to to be eliminated. And the Damn fools do exactly what Moses said to do. The Religious leaders have always fleeced the faithful to live a lavish lifestyle. Hey, it beats plowing the fields. See the Movie, Leap of Faith, or Elmer Gantry for some historical perspective. Write a new book on how to get into Heaven, and the people will flock to the book stores to make them rich. Pat Robertson, Jerry Fallwell, James Dobson, and all the others are just parasites preying on the rest of humanity.

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» Elmer Gantry Posted by: mazel
Nothing New....
Posted by: CatDad on Nov 3, 2006 9:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sort of thing goes all the way back to J. Edgar Hoover...another self-loathing closeted homosexual who based part of his career on oppressing the rights of homosexuals for his own personal empowerment. Again we see the consequences of encouraging gay people to marry some unwittingly heterosexual to "change."

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Hordes of Haggards
Posted by: FedUp on Nov 3, 2006 9:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK - are we all in agreement that this is the 21st century; correct?
So why, after so many thousands of years are we still in the power of these snake-charmers; charlatans chanting some mumbo-jumbo over us?
Why is the very power of life and death in the hands of liars that incite their followers to commit atrocities - remember Matthew Shepard?
As other posters have stated; they come and they go, usually with small variations, delivering the word of god; a sock puppet for yahweh.
But you know? What we really need to fear are the soldiers that they so easily recruit to do their dirty work. Those soldiers are everywhere, ready willing and able to take up a bat, a firearm, a length of rope, or a tire-iron to implement the word of god, by force if necessary.
So, here we are, in the 21st century, having our lives structured.......and endangered by hordes of unstable fanatics!
How difficult can it be to say: "Hey, queer; Hey, Hindu; Hey Pagan; Hey Martian" "Live your life, and I'll live mine."?
If nothing else,we should make it our business to not allow stories like this to be swept under the latest Paris Hilton update.

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» Answer.... Posted by: CatDad
Closet Republicans Giving Gays a Bad Name
Posted by: justaperson on Nov 4, 2006 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stop it! Stop it! You guys are giving ordinary gay men and devoted gay couples a bad name. First one of you was found to be fondling pages in what could have been a story worthy of a sleazy novel. Now, Haggard, the King of Family Values, was dethroned before the cameras when he admitted to buying meth. He was defrocked too in a hotel room where he reportedly hired a gay escort, who openly admits to also being a prostitute. His curvy lipped smile did nothing to dismiss stereotypes either. It seems the more in the closet you guys are the more preverted you become. Us straight gay guys, meaning NOT preverted are suffering from your public exposure. All I want to say is," Stop it! You bad boys. It's time Congress came out of the closet--ALL of you.

Of course the Christian right will now turn on the forgiveness beams and shoot them across the country via evangelical tv. I guess it's nice to be an evangelical because if you are you can go to prison for embezzeling money from your church, then repent and come out and "sell" your repentence via a tell-all book. You can diddle pages and repent and then go into the rehab spa where you are joined by other fallen gods.

Repentance you guys is not a SENTENCE you know & a lot of what y0u have done is criminal. You can't just REPENT buying meth. You gotta do time like the brothers.

Hey, look. This whole parade of closeted perverts in Congress is giving me a headache. I have to go to work this morning to pay the rent for my family. My husband Tim hates it when politics get my panties in a bunch, but I just wanted to stay up late last night to read all the scandals surrounding Haggard.

Now I am all worn out. So stop it! Stop it!

Have MERCY! You guys are sick.

Your friend,
Hal

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can't get enough of this story?
Posted by: sarahdenny on Nov 4, 2006 6:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
check out the in-depth profile of Haggard in the May 2005 issue of Harper's -- "Soldiers of Christ" by Jeff Sharlet. It describes how more than 20 years ago Pastor Ted was "staking out gay bars, inviting men to come to his church." This tale of hypocrisy exposed was a long time in coming. The article also includes choice quotes from Haggard on his loves of free market globalization as a vehicle for the spread of Christianity and of ferocious, pre-emptive war, because "the Bible's bloody." Yikes!

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Haggard's ready for the Big Time now.
Posted by: symcokid on Nov 4, 2006 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Evangelist Ted Haggard has shown he has the mettle and requisites to become a great Politician. Like Nixon, he is no crook - he didn't have sex with, just like Clinton - same as Bush, he doesn't lie. Now, all he has to do is come up with some sort of catchy little slogan such as, "Read my lips", "One size fits all" or "Swing and sway the American Way".

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Con artists
Posted by: Doubtom on Nov 4, 2006 8:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know if this means that god has finally forsaken the Republicans but it should reveal to the world at large, that all these religious clowns are nothing but con men. Take the money out of religion and watch it dry up overnight!
The only thing more contemptible than these con artists are the sheep who follow and support them. And that's a lot of sheep!

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So much for needing to believe in "God," if any.
Posted by: tap17x on Nov 4, 2006 9:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Haggard thing hepls wipe out the claim by fundiethumpers that you gotta be religious to be good. Even though I don't closely follow the comical behaviors of moralistic right-wing leaders, I can think of Swaggart, Bakker, Hargis, Foley, Haggard, Bennett, Limbaugh, and a few others as blatant hypocrites who rail against the very things that they themselves do. I hope Bennett goes broke, Limbaugh dies of an overdose, and the rest of them get AIDS. I have no pity or concern whatever for any of them.

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Cherie
Posted by: Cherieerwin on Nov 4, 2006 10:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok...I have to ask: If you found out your kid had bought some meth but they said they hadn't used it would you believe them? Please get real...what did he do with it???Throw it away? Yeah, sure...or maybe sell it...don't even want to go there...stay tuned for more...

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» RE: Cherie Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Cherie Posted by: FunctionOverForm
Children ask the toughest questions......
Posted by: FedUp on Nov 4, 2006 11:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Haggard child: "Daddy, I asked Momma, What it tastes like?", and she said; "Ask your father!"

"Does it really taste like chicken?"

"Are we gonna move to San Francisco now?"

"Grandma said that she doesn't think that she can stand to be on one more committee; what's PFLAG?"

"Who is Tina?"

"Why did momma buy a whole case of mouthwash at Costco today?"

"Can you sing me some show tunes?"

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ain't nothing harder than a preacher's dick!
Posted by: grant henry on Nov 4, 2006 5:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
haggard,
a homosexual himself,
drug user,
now liar.

jesus would minister to this guy!

now is the time
for christians
to forget christianity,
stop worshiping their ministers,
sell their multi-million dollar structures,
and be christlike.

the path to world peace
is for all politicians/religious leaders
to gather together
for a day of reckoning,
strip naked,
touch every man and woman,
suck each other,
stick cigars in each other,
get "massages" from each other,
snort meth together,
whatever they need to do,
so they can all stand up proudly
and say:
"i have used drugs"
"i have had homosexual relations"
"i have sucked cock"
"i am human",

then,
go back to their prospective
cities and states
and get about the business
of marching together towards
world peace.

can i get an AMEN?

www.sisterlouisa.com

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His Sexually Immoral activity...
Posted by: Plenum on Nov 5, 2006 8:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...isn't nearly as bad as his claim to "know God"...

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Lieberman it's not funny
Posted by: Ozy on Nov 5, 2006 12:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to post an awesome YOUTUBE this one came up this morning! This video speaks for itself Connecticut and our Troops deserve better!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PpUIKD3-iw

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Vote Family Values
Posted by: rwa on Nov 5, 2006 1:19 PM   
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It makes little sense that well-qualified anti-war Green Party Senate candidates in states like Wisconsin, New York and California – where pro-war incumbent Democrats are projected to win by a huge majority – have failed to get much popular support. A strong showing by the Green nominees would send a powerful and badly-needed message to Washington without jeopardizing a Democratic victory.

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Lip Service
Posted by: Sparks56 on Nov 5, 2006 3:48 PM   
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"They support Republicans who pay them lip service but ignore them until the next election rolls around."
There's a lot more than lip service, no pun intended.
Its the scam from Tammy Fay and Jim Baker days; The churches march their member to the polls to vote Republican, and the Republicans keep the IRS off their backs as the millions roll in, a lot of those millions kicking back to Republican campaign coffers. Sweet racket. The suckers are the duped followers of these snake oil salesmen who get down on their knees to achieve grace and throw money at the preachers for giving it to them. These dopes still don't get it, even when their noses get pushed right into it.

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Joseph Campbell
Posted by: markusmark on Nov 6, 2006 5:56 AM   
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From Joseph Campbell's "Myths to Live By"
"The wicked thing about both the little and the great 'collective faiths', prehistoric and historic, is that they all, without exception, pretend to hold encompassed in their ritualized mythologies all of the truth ever to be known. They are therefore cursed, and they curse all who accept them, with what I shall call the 'error of the found truth', or, in mythological language, the sin against the Holy Ghost. They set up against the revelations of the spirit the barriers of their own petrified belief, and therefore, within the span of their control, mythology, as they shape it, serves the end only of binding potential individuals to whatever system of sentiments may have seemed to the shapers of the past (now sanctified as saints, sages, ancestors, or even gods) to be appropriate to their concept of a great society."
Peace! Vote!
Mark

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Charles Bukowski said:
Posted by: rollo on Nov 6, 2006 5:07 PM   
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"Humanity, you never had it from the beginning."

I think that one fits these days.

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A real danger to real people
Posted by: aviva1964 on Nov 7, 2006 12:31 PM   
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It's important to understand the state of mind of these people ... they truly believe that homosexuality is tool of the devil and that they must fight it tooth and nail. They view it as an affliction similar to drug addition or alcoholism. A "test" of faith if you will, in line with Job.

While living in Colorado Springs i was involved in a homosexual relationship with a member of the New Life Church who was struggling to get out of a physically abusive heterosexual relationship. We started out as friends, and she "confessed that she knew, at some point in her life, God would test her by leading her to a woman with whom she could fall in love". That this occured at the same time her husband was facing domestic violence charges was "proof" to her of God's genius. He was, she believed, testing her faith in the most obvious way (she believed that I was a pawn in all this as well). She percieved the fact that she did in fact love me as a failure of God's test.

She had at the time been seeing a mental heath proffesional for biopolar disorder, and was medicated.

When her husband discovered her indescretions, his response was to march her into Pastor Ted's office. Together they put together a mutipronged "battle plan". She and her wife-beating husband were to met with Ted Haggard weekly. She was assigned two sponsers - a "former lesbian", now happily married, and a "lifelong straight", also happily married. They all carried pagers, and in the event she was tempted to see or contact me, she was to page one of them.

They further had her sign a waiver and agree to stop seeing her "secular psychiatrist" and go off medication. Instead, she was to participate in daily bible based counseling sessions. When she showed me the waiver I almost fainted - it included words to the effect " ... I understand that bible based counselers are not medical professionals, and that there may be side effects of discontinuing my medication.."

You might wonder, why did she do it? Brainwashing is a powerful thing - religion confuses and women who are physically abused are that much more vulnerable. Her family insisted - they were terrified what people would think if their daugher was found out to be gay. Clearly that was more important than their daughter being beaten.

Her cell group repeatedy contacted me on her behalf, in an effort to first convince me to never contact her, and second bring me into the light and away from my own personal path towards damnation. Their words were not kind. That I was Jewish was completely irrelevant.

Her husband phoned me and visited me several times to ensure that if i ever saw her again, he would shoot me. He followed me and followed her to ensure we never saw each other.

It was a tumultous time in her and my lives. She wound up making two suicide attempts, and I wound up sleeping with a gun under my pillow. What's saddest is that we really loved eachother and made each other happy - not just "in bed", but as friends and equals. She is now living very far away, reconciled with the husband (yes, the one convicted of domestic violence).

I only hope she is emotionally strong enough to deal with this.

Folks like Pastor Ted must be held to a higher standard of accountablity. Religious leaders have life and death influence over their parishoners. "Please forgive me" in this case is not enough. He owes her and all the other people who's lives he's effected a better explanation.

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time to stop bashing evangelicals, folks, the election's over
Posted by: gerdhansel on Nov 8, 2006 7:59 AM   
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Now that the Democrats have captured the House and stand poised to take the Senate, I think it's time for the bloggers on this site to stop bashing all evangelical Christians for the misdeeds of one preacher who paid for sex.

One preacher's hypocrisy doesn't give anybody license to bash the entire flock.

Some of us evangelicals are progressives. Some are concerned about global warming and rampant corporate power.

Not all of us are right-wing wingnuts. Many of us see no conflict between faith and the theory of evolution.

Now that the Presidential race of 2008 has begin, like-minded progressives need to cease and desist with this mean-spirited trashing of people of faith.

You're gonna need our votes two years from now.

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