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Bill Maher on Jesus Camp

Posted by Evan Derkacz at 3:33 PM on September 27, 2006.


The evangelical rift.

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In the clip to the right, Sandy Rios, a Fox contributor and "passionate conservative," agrees that there are disturbing elements in Jesus Camp -- a new documentary about a small evangelical summer camp on a mission to create a generation of God's Army.

Maher is surprised and off they go on the subject of religion, extremism, human nature, etc. Standard stuff, loosely related to the film. But Maher's comfort at hearing Rios, a conservative Christian, decry the subjects of the film is far more sinister than he appreciates. Rios is far more of an activist, and far more powerful, than anyone depicted in Jesus Camp.

In my interview with the directors, they reveal that Ted Haggard, the powerful pastor who appears in the film, wasn't happy with it. According to Greenfield, Haggard states his objection this way: "it makes evangelicals look 'scary' and that 'the filmmakers take the charismatic, evangelical jargon too literally and portray the children's and Fischer's 'war talk' as violent and extremist, when it's just allegorical.'"

The film's main subjects are disappointed because they feel that it was a good representation of their community and their mission. For those with a monolithic view of the evangelical community this may come as a bit of a shock, but friction arises every now and again in the ranks. Before we get into why, it's important to know who we're talking about.

Haggard is described in gleeful detail by Jeff Sharlet in Harper's:

Pastor Ted, who talks to President George W. Bush or his advisers every Monday, is a handsome forty-eight-year-old Indianan, most comfortable in denim. He likes to say that his only disagreement with the President is automotive; Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas Pastor Ted loves his Chevy. In addition to New Life, Pastor Ted presides over the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), whose 45,000 churches and 30 million believers make up the nation's most powerful religious lobbying group, and also over a smaller network of his own creation, the Association of Life-Giving Churches, 300 or so congregations modeled on New Life's "free market" approach to the divine.
Haggard, and others with high-level connections, do not like to be associated with charismatics and Pentecostals, the more "down home" denominations under the evangelical umbrella. They speak in tongues, writhe on the ground, cry, and otherwise express themselves more aggressively than unfamiliar Americans are used to.

As his notoriety grew, and media appearances poured in, Pastor Ted sent an email to his congregation, found by blogger Non Prophet, and confirmed by Associate Pastor Rob Brendle. A snippet:

The Lord has sovereignly placed all of us, as a congregation, in a position where we are representing born-again, Bible-believing Christians to groups outside our normal spheres of influence.
Here are a few tips:
1. If a camera is on you during a worship service, worship; don't dance, jump, etc. Secular people watching TV are touched with authentic worship, but jumping and dancing in church looks too bizarre for most to relate to. Remember, people watching TV news are not experiencing what you are experiencing. They are watching and thinking. Worship indicates sincerity, dancing and jumping looks like excessive emotionalism.
It's partly about shame, partly about strategy. Haggard seeks power, as do others who believe that they've found the One True Truth. More power=spreading it around. Christianizing the nation.

Back to Rios and the Maher clip. Rios doesn't want to be associated with the "excessive emotionalism" of Becky Fischer and her campers. But Rios is the former head of Concerned Women for America, founded by Beverly LaHaye, whose husband Tim LaHaye is the best-selling author of the 63 million selling "Left Behind" books and the cofounder of the Moral Majority with Jerry Falwell.

Be afraid, but be afraid by a well-funded, politico with makeup and not just by a few kids singing songs in Devil's Lake, North Dakota. I know, I know, her hair is like, perfect. But the tongues she speaks in are far more seductive.

Digg!

Evan Derkacz is a New York-based writer and contributor to AlterNet.


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Who Would Jesus kill?
Posted by: Chris Bennett on Sep 27, 2006 7:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jesus Camp scares the pants of me as much as the Popes recent comments do. Considering the history of the Catholic Church, dark ages, witch birnings, child molestations, who is he to criticize. Likewise with mainstream Christianity, have these people ever read a history book? They need to remember... George Bush talks to God... are we destined to repeat the horrors of the past.

I do have the answers to these folks, although it is not the one they are looking for. Could Jesus have been one of those pot smoking peaceniks that they feel so threatned by?

http://www.hightimes.com/ht/news/content.php?bid=31&aid=2

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cmonhank
Posted by: cmonhank on Sep 27, 2006 8:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank God (pun intended) that these people (i.e. Pastor Ted) are so totally stupid - the tell their congregation to appear sincere!!! That it's not about actually BEING sincere but it's about LOOKING sincere. They are not even aware of their constant ability to contradict themselves. And for Sandy Rios I would like to offer this challenge: Let's say there is a person that is a wonderful person, great parent, spouse, involved in their community, helps and gives to other people, everyone thinks they're very kind and forgiving and understanding...but this person is not a christian, they are secular. So, that person is going to hell. On the other hand there is this person who, for their entire life has been miserable, a horrilbe parent and friend, cheated people, hurt people, selfish (you get the picuture) - but on their death bed they repent and accept Jesus as their personal savior. Is this person going to Heaven? The christian MUST say "yes". And this is why (even though I was raised in a Baptist church in Indiana, like Pastor Ted) I realized I wanted nothing to do with Christianity. Anything that is based on scaring someone into believing it, as I was as a child otherwise I thought at the age of 10 that I would go to hell, I want nothing to do with. Clearly, this is not at all what Jesus had in mind. I believe that the christians are feeling their last days, that people are catching on to their hypocrisy and they are like an animal backed into a corner and they're going down with a fight. Unfortunately, many innocent people are going to go down with them.

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» RE: cmonhank Posted by: pcushniesr
» RE: cmonhank..sickofsleaze it is an.. Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: cmonhank Posted by: christee
» RE: cmonhank Posted by: Plexius
Not In Jesus Name
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 27, 2006 10:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The actions of these people is so far from the teachings of Christ as to be laughable to anyone who has bothered to read them in context. The sad truth is that Biblical Illiteracy is rampant in many evangelical congregations and many of the faithful rely upon what they are told rather than what is actually there.

The Jesus who charged to those who would follow him to care for the prisoner, the hungry, the naked, the sick, the feeble, the orphaned, the widow & the poor is NOT the Jesus being taught in these 'churches'.

Here is more, if you care to read on What Wouldn't Jesus Do

http://web.mac.com/davidgregory1/iWeb/Site/WWJD%20II.html

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Holy Rollers
Posted by: ccluelessfl60 on Sep 28, 2006 6:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets start calling the evangelicals what they are. Hey I grew up around "holy rollers" as my Dad called them and they are the phony of the phony. I was raised catholic but as soon as I reached the age of reason I realized all organized religion was a man made crock. I have my own religion and it is close to Christ's teaching. Do good for as any people as you can and wish no one harm. We were taught to strive for perfection but of course I fall very short of the goal. It is hard for me to love my enemies . but I will keep on trying. Hate is a very harmful emotion and I am afraid these "holy rollers " who demand so much do not realise when these kids grow up they will the army of the disenfranchised.

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Hide Behind the Cross
Posted by: makeadifference on Sep 28, 2006 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Plain and simple... I do not trust Christians anymore. In the past couple years I have found the greatest liars & swindlers among those attending the prayer breakfasts and displaying the sign of the fish on their vehicles. A ex-business associate, an ordained minister, openly lies and cheats clients, steals from contractors and hides behide the cross to do his dirty deeds. When someone approachs wearing a crucifix around their neck... I run! I don't know where this new culture is going, but the future doesn't look pretty.

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» RE: Ironically.. Posted by: Plexius
» RE: Ironically.. Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: Hide Behind the Cross Posted by: oldheathen
Huh!
Posted by: Domokun on Sep 28, 2006 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was very eager to watch this one (well, I'm always happy to watch Bill Maher) once I saw she was slated to be a panelist--only wish he'd gotten Gore Vidal to be her foil. I know she's done the teleconference in before back when she was prezzie of that cursed CWA (long time listener of their radio hour--just hateful, Rios was no better than that gasping LaHaye) but I was really suprised to see her offer herself up to be a panelist.

As you've pointed out, she stylishly avoided any association with that group, the film, Haggard, the works. Her quick denial really raised my eyebrows--what's this witch up to? Be afraid of a zealot who dismisses another zealot of equal value.

Are you going to have another entry where you harp on her absolutely absurd, reprehensible comment on having permanent bases in Iraq? "We've earned the RIGHT to have permanent bases there!"

I was aghast. I can't believe Maher didn't hammer her for that. Again, bring Gore Vidal on to handle people like her not...Bradley Whitford...come on!

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» Brad's insight... Posted by: Wells
» RE: Brad's insight... Posted by: Domokun
The woman panelist........
Posted by: tap17x on Sep 28, 2006 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...........said that religion doesn't kill, people do. That's the same as the old lie that guns don't kill, people do. Religion and guns provide the tools or excuses that help people kill.

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» RE: The woman panelist........ Posted by: mejsmith
What is it about...
Posted by: thehousedog on Sep 28, 2006 6:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...religious peoples anywhere in the world when they describe WHY they have their faith and what it makes them do - that they seem so stupid and child-like?

Religion answers the questions for which their are no answers. Frankly we'd all be a lot better off we we stopped trying to make more out of religion than what it is - codified superstition that exists only because people believe it.

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Try working in real estate with some of these so-called Christian
Posted by: bettyn on Sep 28, 2006 7:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
pastors wives! That will give you and eye and ear full! Selfish, scheming, lying hypocrites of the first order!

Absolute harridans! Worst women I've ever been around, anywhere!

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Since we're talking about religion in general...
Posted by: acme-instant on Sep 29, 2006 10:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is cleverly done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj9l3GfBWAU

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» that old-time religion Posted by: aislinnluv
Yup
Posted by: Gregor on Sep 29, 2006 6:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is it about this century where everyone is going nuts trying to prove they're right? Who the **&%! cares what you believe in? AND: "Just because you have silenced a man, does not mean you have changed his mind." So these groups can run around slaughtering in the name of Jesus, but in the long run, they will go the way of the Hitler Youth, the Red Guard, et.al. Man people are dumb. It is a freakin' embarassment.

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» RE: Yup Posted by: coolmom
Fairy Tales for Adults
Posted by: Marverick47 on Oct 4, 2006 9:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion is a positive force in some people's lives, a negative one in others. As as a society, however, we will make no progress until a substantial majority realizes that religion is just fairy tales for adults who are unwilling to face the reality of death.

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Disagree with the Muslim's comments
Posted by: renodante on Oct 10, 2006 10:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The statement that one religion is more violent than another is "bullshit" is in fact bullshit.

I'll give you an example:

name ONE instance in history, where Buddhists or Jains, in the name of their religion, citing religious texts, invaded another nation, pillaged a town, participated in a slaughter, etc. You will find very small-scale, isolated instances of this, such as a few Zen priests in Japan during WWII, Singhalese monks in Sri Lanka, etc. But at no time do you find such instances occuring in Buddhism, Jainism, Advaita Vedanta, different forms of animism and tribal religion, such events occuring, in frequency and in scale as you do in Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Why? Because IN THEIR HOLY TEXTS are ample injunctions to massacre, attack, kill, judge, betray, look down upon, those who are different from themselves.

The idea that all religions are on equal ground when it comes to a history of violence is complete bullshit. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are the leading players, by a long shot, and for good reason.

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