I see NO problem with the idea that the Universe is so complex that there is a higher power behind it . To me this in no way changes the Scientific evidence of Evolution and
I sometimes wonder if the cries against Intelligent Design are not "our" equivalent of the War on Christmas .

I agree that if they want to talk about the earth being only 6,000 years old I will gladly man the barricades .

There is certainly room in science for belief in a higher power that set the rules . As I understand it ( and I certainly don't ) the Big Bang Theory has no explanation as to WHAT caused the Big Bang .

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...that the church is engaging in retro stances related to the evolution-creationism debate.

I don't totally disagree with JSquercia ("No Problem) with respect pondering the cause prior to the Big Bang and that there was a first (?) cause.

My issue is that the church, actually since the Second Vatican Council, and beginning with the church's with the Reagan administration, took a sharp right turn and has decended into the black hole of Christian fundamentalism ever since. This newest instance is just a part of that slippery slope. All one has to do is pay attention to the Christian Right and the Catholic church's cheerleading and alliances with same in this country.

It's a shame. There is indeed a great need to allow deeply needed dialogues between theology and science which may promote the enhancement of both rather than regarding them as polar opposites on a spectrum. But as long as institutionalized Christian fundamentalism (and I include Catholic fundamentalists here) insists on groping its grab bag of examples set in the Middle Ages, that in and of itself shuts off dialogue and creates needless controversies.....and threatens absolute freedom of inquiry.

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may influence impressionable minds unwilling or unable to think for themselves, but neither can alter universal truths.

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people who do ancient things to embrace modern things.

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My father in law is a crazy Chinese inventor. Stereotypical mad genius type (he even has an organ in his lab which he sometimes plays); he does some teaching of computer science, mathematics and physics. Most of his money comes from consulting though; he's an inventor by trade. He is unquestionably a very smart man.

He's also quite socially conservative, and staunchly Roman Catholic. However, like most Roman Catholics, he doesn't listen blindly to everything the Pope says. It saddens me that the RC church is moving away from science again, but it's a pendulum. It'll swing back after a time.

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Confession: I went to Catholic school for 13 years, and though I no longer consider myself to be a practicing Catholic, I am something of a Catholic apologist.

Now, I'm studying Evolutionary Biology as an undergraduate, and having read this, I'm begining to feel quite depressed. I've always appreciated the Church's liberal positions on science, social justice, labor, and war, but I fear that they're slipping backwards. From the Church's reaction to Romero's assassination, to John Paul II's draconian position on condoms, to Ratzinger's ban on homosexual preists, to this new idiocy, I find myself becoming more and more ashamed of Catholicism.

I apologize for any spelling errors. It's been a long day.

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Considering the fact that we think of God in our own image, the "higher intelligence" that fundamentalists believe in could not possibly have created and controlled each and every aspect of the universe. After all, humans are part of the universe; and we as a subset of that "intelligence" are not smart enough to take care of even our own little world – or, judging by the way we merrily murder each other, ourselves.

Although there may be, in fact, a Higher Intelligence beyond the universe, it could not possibly be concerned with what happens on this tiny little interstellar rock called Earth, human conceit notwithstanding. We could not be the result of "intelligent design"; we must have been produced accidentally out of the chaos of evolution.

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Definitions in Religion: quotable quotes by Ambrose Bierce

"Faith", n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

"Christian",n. One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.

"Religion",n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.

"Sabbath",n. A weekly festival having its origin in the fact that God made the world in six days and was arrested on the seventh.


I dreamed I stood upon a hill, and, lo!
The godly multitudes walked to and fro
Beneath, in Sabbath garments fitly clad,
With pious mien, appropriately sad,
While all the church bells made a solemn din --
A fire-alarm to those who lived in sin.
Then saw I gazing thoughtfully below,
With tranquil face, upon that holy show
A tall, spare figure in a robe of white,
Whose eyes diffused a melancholy light.
"God keep you, strange," I exclaimed. "You are
No doubt (your habit shows it) from afar;
And yet I entertain the hope that you,
Like these good people, are a Christian too."
He raised his eyes and with a look so stern
It made me with a thousand blushes burn
Replied -- his manner with disdain was spiced:
"What! I a Christian? No, indeed!
I'm Christ."

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His High Holiness is directly threatened by the notion that we may outgrow the need for his institution.

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The Catholic Church is not going to start endorsing Creationism or Intelligent Design (in the Discovery Institute sense) any time soon. What the Catholic Church rejects is not evolution, but the philosophical argument that evolution proves the nonexistence of God.

That article is simply misleading. It draws conclusions that do not necessarily follow from the available evidence. A few of the posts in a thread on talk.origins explain it better than I can.

The Pope could be a little more cautious in his choice of words, though. I don't think he really understands the terminology of the Creationism problem in the United States, so he doesn't realize how his theological arguments can be misinterpreted as statements of political or scientific matters.

The day Catholic schools start teaching Intelligent Design (DI-style, as opposed to the benign theological version that is currently confined to classes on religion) is the day I shoot myself in the head.

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