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How Dennis Kucinich May Save the Health Reform Battle

Posted by Joshua Holland, AlterNet at 2:34 PM on July 17, 2009.


A proposal by Kucinich that would allow states to create their own single-payer systems is gaining steam in Congress.

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Editor's note: this originally appeared on AlterNet's blog, PEEK.

No time today for a lengthy analysis of the Tri-Committee health bill. My quick-and-dirty take is this. Those who think the bill is a wonderful progressive victory with a robust public option are wrong, and, on the flip side, the charge that it's a "bailout for the insurance industry" is totally divorced from what the bill would actually do if passed.

It is the most progressive, comprehensive and significant health care legislation to come down the pike since Medicare was passed in 1965. If it were enacted as written, it'd go a long way to solving a lot of our problems (but by no means all) and wouldn't break the bank in the process.

But it also fails some of the basic criteria that most progressives have long said is a red-line that can't be crossed. First and foremost, it doesn't have a public option that can compete with private insurers and result in significant cost savings. 

It has a public plan in which -- as far as the statute goes (it can be expanded in 2015 but there's no mandate to do so) -- only 9-10 million people will be eligible to enroll by 2019. Similarly, the publicly-administered exchanges are projected to cover about 30 million by that year. (These relatively small insurance pools will be able to bargain in concert with Medicare to some degree, so their power will be magnified, but still...)

That greatly limits the potential for cost containment. What it does is bend the curve of projected cost growth downwards, and cover about 2/3 of the uninsured. But we'll still have 3-6 % of the population uninsured and being treated at the ER. And while bending the upward curve down a few notches is a very good thing, it doesn't get us where we want to go -- not when you consider that we pay $2000 upwards of $4,000 more for every American than the OECD average each and every  year.

But it's more than just the costs or the people left out. Crucially important is that the public plan won't be big or effective enough to serve as a living example of the kind of large-pool public exchange models federal employees now enjoy. And that means it won't be a back-door to a European-style health care system. This is really key. As I wrote last week about the divide between single-payer advocates and those pushing a public insurance option:

The divide that does exist in progressive circles is tactical, not ideological. Most of those pushing the public option would, if they had their druthers, enact a single-payer system. But they recognize that the two commercial enterprises that have spent the most on political lobbying in recent years are the "disease care" and insurance industries. 

Like single-payer advocates, they believe that a large insurance pool with extensive government regulation and some subsidies afford the greatest potential for (near) universality and cost containment.

And they think that given the choice -- given a demonstration that this approach works better than having a fragmented system of private insurers -- most people will eventually opt into the public plan, and we'll end up achieving something approaching a single-payer system -- although an American-style variation -- through the back door.

Obviously, a public insurance plan for which 10 million are eligible to enroll isn't going to serve as an example of the efficiency that comes with a single-payer type system. And the fact that they designed a pretty good public option for which most of the public will be ineligible to enroll (and that wouldn't have as much potential for cost savings as one would hope) was enough to make me consider opposing it. Howard Dean told me recently that he thought a bill without a robust public option wasn't worth passing, and I agree.

And that's where Kucinich, a supporter of single-payer, comes in. He's trying to save the whole promise of this project.

On Friday, an amendment he authored was added to the House bill that allows states to create their own single-payer systems instead of adopting the federally-run exchange system. The original bill allowed states only to enact their own exchange system -- it was a nod to federalism -- with the proviso that if a state (think a deep red one in the South) refused to adopt the plan, the feds could step in and set it up.

The Kucinich amendment is really key. If it were to survive the legislative sausage-making and be enacted into law, the we might expect a progressive state to take advantage of the opportunity and enact a single-payer system in the coming years. And, if those of us who have been pushing such an arrangement are correct, the result will be greater access and better outcomes at a lower price tag for that state's residents. 

And then we can move from an often ill-informed argument over the Canadian or British systems to a debate in which we can hold up a model in which millions of real Americans see very tangible benefits from an actual single-payer system in action.

Thanks, Dennis! Now let's see what comes out of the Senate.

Note: I'll have more next week on the good, the bad and the ugly in the new health care bill.

 

Digg!

Tagged as: kucinich, health reform

Joshua Holland is an editor and senior writer at AlterNet.


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Right ON
Posted by: mom'z the word on Jul 17, 2009 3:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All I can say is I trust Kucinich with my life. Whatever he says is good enough for me. The man has proven his worth many times over. He knows what he is talking about and he walks the walk. If Congress had just one ounce the courage Kucinich has to get things done Things would get done and for all the right reasons. You have my vote again Dennis.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Well said, mom'z! Posted by: dazzle59
» RE: Well said, mom'z! Posted by: kungfuma
» RE: ight ON Posted by: gordonkob
» RE: Right ON Posted by: AlterEg0
I so agree with the last comment.
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 17, 2009 4:58 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dennis Kucinich is an intelligent, noble man. No wonder he is a Democrat.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» No Posted by: vertical
» RE: No Posted by: wwittman
» RE: I so agree with the last comment. Posted by: photon's feather
miki
Posted by: ralphjohansen on Jul 17, 2009 5:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"an amendment he authored was added to the House bill that allows states to create their own single-payer systems instead of adopting the federally-run exchange system. The original bill allowed states only to enact their own exchange system -- it was a nod to federalism -- with the proviso that if a state (think a deep red one in the South) refused to adopt the plan, the feds could step in and set it up.
The Kucinich amendment is really key. If it were to survive the legislative sausage-making and be enacted into law, the we could expect a progressive state to take advantage of the opportunity and enact a single-payer system in short order."

----------------------------------

States have spending limits: they can't engage in deficit spending, nor does a state, I would assume, given its largely property-based taxing capacity, have the flexible tax base among the affluent to pay for it - that is, to launch and underwrite a change like this. In a deepening depression, to count on a 'progressive' state to lead the way, buck the medical-industrial complex and enact a stand-alone model single payer system doesn't sound at all hopeful. Nor does talk of 'controlling' costs or 'lower' costs cut it, where they include the profit-driven private insurance system. That's the problem with Massachusetts's alternative. I would be interested in comments from the writer of this piece as to how he defends it. Maybe Kucinich answers this somewhere? I'd also like to know what the writer means by targeting, gratuitously and unnecessarily, 'often ill-informed argument over the Canadian or British systems', when virtually all of what I have seen is spot-on and stands unrefuted.

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» RE: miki Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Please explain Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Please explain Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Please explain Posted by: kogwonton
» RE: Please explain Posted by: Joshua Holland
» So, what do we do? Posted by: Tim Brown
» RE: So, what do we do? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» the missing piece Posted by: james108
» Vermont Posted by: mpower9
» County hospitals Posted by: tatamchwh
PRIVATE FOR PROFIT HEALTHCARE IS AN OXYMORON
Posted by: jacksmith on Jul 17, 2009 5:41 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AMERICA’S NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY!

It’s official. America and the World are now in a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. A World EPIDEMIC with potential catastrophic consequences for ALL of the American people. The first PANDEMIC in 41 years. And WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES will have to face this PANDEMIC with the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed World.

STAND READY AMERICA TO SEIZE CONTROL OF YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

We spend over twice as much of our GDP on healthcare as any other country in the World. And Individual American spend about ten times as much out of pocket on healthcare as any other people in the World. All because of GREED! And the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare system in America.

And while all this is going on, some members of congress seem mostly concern about how to protect the corporate PROFITS! of our GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT NATIONAL DISGRACE. A PRIVATE FOR PROFIT DISGRACE that is in fact, totally valueless to the public health. And a detriment to national security, public safety, and the public health.

Progressive democrats the Tri-Caucus and others should stand firm in their demand for a robust government-run public option for all Americans, with all of the minimum requirements progressive democrats demanded. If congress can not pass a robust public option with at least 51 votes and all robust minimum requirements, congress should immediately move to scrap healthcare reform and request that President Obama declare a state of NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY! Seizing and replacing all PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance plans with the immediate implementation of National Healthcare for all Americans under the provisions of HR676 (A Single-payer National Healthcare Plan For All).

Coverage can begin immediately through our current medicare system. With immediate expansion through recruitment of displaced workers from the canceled private sector insurance industry. Funding can also begin immediately by substitution of payroll deductions for private insurance plans with payroll deductions for the national healthcare plan. This is what the vast majority of the American people want. And this is what all objective experts unanimously agree would be the best, and most cost effective for the American people and our economy.

In Mexico on average people who received medical care for A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) with in 3 days survived. People who did not receive medical care until 7 days or more died. This has been the same results in the US. But 50 million Americans don’t even have any healthcare coverage. And at least 200 million of you with insurance could not get in to see your private insurance plans doctors in 2 or 3 days, even if your life depended on it. WHICH IT DOES!

If President Obama has to declare a NATIONAL STATE OF EMERGENCY to rescue the American people from our healthcare crisis, he will need all the sustained support you can give him. STICK WITH HIM! He’s doing a brilliant job.

THIS IS THE BIG ONE!

THE BATTLE OF GOOD Vs EVIL!

Join the fight.

Contact congress and your representatives NOW! AND SPREAD THE WORD!

(http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/publicoption) (http://www.actblue.com/page/healthcareheroes)

God Bless You

Jacksmith – WORKING CLASS

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» that's the only reason... Posted by: james108
an acid test
Posted by: Ripcord on Jul 17, 2009 6:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for Congress and Obama.

Again, Kucinich is right
(he still plugs to get troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, prosecute Bush and Cheney for war crimes)

From the "Examiner:"
"A single payer health care plan is the best and most tested way to provide health care for everyone while increasing quality and controlling costs,"

Three House committees are concurrently drafting health care reform legislation. Kucinich spokesman Nathan White said their efforts will be put together in a joint bill that will hopefully contain Kucinich's amendment. In the Senate, the measure would likely have support from single payer health care backers like Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

"The congressman still wants a national single payer plan, but that's been taken off the table by the administration," said White. "This is a way to keep it as an option for states that want to implement it."

Two-bits says that Obama will overlook it.
And most of the media will overlook it.

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» RE: an acid test Posted by: kogwonton
» One thing that'd do it for me Posted by: james108
» The only thing... Posted by: james108
A class act Obama missed to our detriment
Posted by: weathered on Jul 17, 2009 6:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kucinich belongs in the Cabinet, send Emanuel back Chicago. We desperately need leadership and integrity.

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» THANK YOU ! Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: No! Posted by: photon's feather
msg from Kucinich
Posted by: Ripcord on Jul 17, 2009 7:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Friends,

With your support, your phone calls, your emails, we won a major legislative victory today for a state single payer health care option in the House of Representatives in Washington, DC. The House Education and Labor Committee approved the Kucinich Amendment by a vote of 27-19, with 14 Democrats and 13 Republicans voting yes.

The amendment propels the growing single payer health care movement at the state level. There are at least ten states which have active single payer efforts in their legislatures. They are California, Colorado, Illinois, Minnesota, Montana, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Washington. The amendment mandates a single payer state will receive the right to waive the application of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA), which has in the past been used to nullify efforts to expand state or local government health care.

Under the Kucinich Amendment a state's application for a waiver from ERISA is granted automatically if the state has signed into law a single payer plan. With the amendment, for the first time, the state single payer health care option is shielded from an ERISA-based legal attack. Now that the underlying bill has been passed, as amended, by the full committee, we must make sure that Congress knows that we want the provision kept in the bill at final passage!

The state single payer option was one of five major amendments which I obtained support to get included in HR3200. One amendment brings into standard coverage for the first time complementary and alternative medicine, (integrative medicine). Another amendment drives down the cost of prescription drugs by ending pharmaceutical industry's sharp practices manipulating physician prescribing habits. An amendment stops the insurance industry from increasing premiums at the time when people are not permitted to change health plans; and finally an amendment imposing a requirement on insurance companies that they disclose the cost of advertising, marketing and executive compensation expenses (which generally divert money from patient care).

Please make sure you post this message on your social networking site, ask all your friends to get involved and encourage everyone you know to sign up at www.Kucinich.us so we can build full momentum behind this movement for real health care.

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» RE: msg from Kucinich Posted by: popham
» RE: msg from Kucinich Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: msg from Kucinich Posted by: assrocket
» RE: msg from Kucinich Posted by: progressiveview
» RE: msg from Kucinich Posted by: BobCP
Kucinich/Sanders 2012
Posted by: notinKansas on Jul 17, 2009 8:47 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A message to current officeholders: If you can't produce results, get out of the way.

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» RE: Kucinich/Ventura 2012 Posted by: sasquuatch55
Please support Rep. Kucinich's Amendment TODAY!
Posted by: foreverhope on Jul 17, 2009 9:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert Andrews NJ01 202-225-6501
Yvette Clarke NY11 202-225-6231
Joe Courtney CT02 202-225-2076
Marcia Fudge OH11 202-225-7032
Phil Hare IL17 202-225-5905
Rush Holt NJ12 202-225-5801
Dale Kildee MI05 202-225-3611
David Loebsack IA02 202-225-6576
Carolyn McCarthy NY04 202-225-5516
Joe Sestak PA07 202-225-2011
John Tierney MA06 202-225-8020
David Wu OR01 202-225-0855


Rep. Dennis Kucinich proposed a crucial amendment today for single-payer healthcare and we urgently need you to call one or more of the 12 Democrats on the House Education and Labor Subcommittee. Our message is simple:

Please support Rep. Kucinich's Amendment today in the HELP Subcommittee to allow states to create single-payer healthcare systems. The federal government should give states the freedom to fix our health care crisis.

You can call any time and leave a voicemail if no one answers. If you do speak with a staffer, please post their reply here:

linked text

You can also urge your Senators and Representatives to support a nationwide Single Payer Health Care plan (H.R. 676) by signing our petition:

linked text

The Kucinich Amendment would let individual states create single-payer healthcare systems even if Congress fails to create a nationwide single-payer system.

That's exactly how Canada evolved towards single-payer: one province at a time. Given the corporate-funded resistance to single-payer in Congress, the U.S. may have to follow the Canadian path.

Progressive activists in California and Pennsylvania are leading the way for single-payer systems and the Kucinich Amendment would remove the legal roadblocks they face.

The fate of the Kucinich Amendment rests in the hands of the 12 Democrats above. Please call as many as you can.

________________

Follow Activist Alerts:

linked text

Forward this message to everyone you know!

Subscribe to email Activist Alerts by creating a free Democrats.com account:

linked text

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No Thank You
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 18, 2009 12:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We Need A SINGLE PAYER, COMPREHENSIVE COVERAGE, UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM. What a state-by-state system will condemn us to is an unequal system where the redneck states have a crappy, poorly done system laced with cronyism run by the good old boy network, while other states have better systems. Since I live in the Blue Tick state of Arkansas, where people working at Wal-Mart who live in trailers consider themselves Republicans- I think I'll pass.

All for one and one for all...

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» RE: No Thank You Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: assrocket
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: wbblack
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: poetac
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: No Thank You Posted by: assrocket
Does this health plan exclude illegals?
Posted by: goldengrain on Jul 18, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it only for Americans?
Does it include legal aliens?
Does it include illegals?

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» What's your point? Posted by: tatamchwh
» RE: What's your point? Posted by: assrocket
Joshua's got it right on s-payer and the PO
Posted by: kip sullivan on Jul 18, 2009 3:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks, Joshua, for your comments about the Kucinich amendment and the worthless "public option" provisions in the House bill and the Senate HELP committee bill.

Preserving the right of states to implement single-payer systems is essential. The worst possible outcome of the current debate in Congress would be an insurance industry bailout (which is what both the House tri-committee bill and the Senate HELP bill are) that also extinguishes the right of states to impliment single-payer systems. Canada created its single-payer system province by province, starting in 1947 in the province of Saskatchewan. The US needs to be free to take the same path if that turns out to be necessary.

Your comments about the House bill's "public option" are correct as well. It will at best be too tiny to make a difference. The only thing I would add is that the number you used -- 10 million people enrolled in the public option -- is probably optimistic. That number (as I know you know) is from the Congressional Budget Office, and CBO made a point of saying its estimate is highly uncertain. I believe the more accurate statement is that the "public option" in both the House and the Senate HELP bills will die in the cradle in most states and perhaps nationwide.

You confuse me with your correct analysis of the "public option" in the House bill and your incorrect statement that this bill is the "most progressive bill" to come down the path since Medicare and that it will lower costs. It's an awful bill for several reasons, some of which you identify. There is nothing in the bill that will cut costs. Moreover, the bill attempts to recycle the HMO experiment, but using language that is different from that invented by the captains of the HMO juggernaut.

I hope we have an opportunity in the near future to discuss the Second Great HMO Experiment called for in the House bill, and specific criteria that a public program must meet before it can be considered "robust," to use the mantra favored by "public option" advocates.

Kip Sullivan

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Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» RE: It is a hard choice for me... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» universal fee schedule Posted by: james108
» RE: universal fee schedule Posted by: kogwonton
» RE: Bullseye Posted by: kogwonton
Don't bother with another meaningless struggle
Posted by: Moonray on Jul 18, 2009 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Commenter NoPCZone is right in saying "no thank you." From now on all discussion on the issue is wasted anyway. In fact, our unending discussion -- our psuedo-democratic process -- ensures that the yammering continues indefinitely and nothing ever changes significantly.

You see, that's how they continue to screw us. Our government process is so completely controlled by big-money interests and corrupt politicians that attempts at reform are quickly co-opted into more opportunities for the corporations to gouge us. Entering into a long fight over whether states could create their own single-payer systems would delight the big-money interests because it would merely add to the yammering.

When Obama was elected I hoped that America was turning around, but that obviously is not the case. What little democracy we have is slipping away, down the black hole of corporate greed and growing militarism. I have been putting off getting a passport, but it's time.

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Unaccounted for healthcare dollars have not been totalled, anywhere.
Posted by: warrior woman on Jul 18, 2009 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Healthcare costs are not appropriately accounted for in any analysis.

Kucinich said that the cost of healthcare (from ins co's) is about 2.4 trillion of which 800 billion or 25% of it goes to administrative costs. This was in the commentary in the Progressive this last month.

What is not accounted for is the emergency room or alternative healthcare costs. These are costs that each state must pay in medicaid or medical assistance payments- this number is HUGE. No one has accounted for costs absorbed by drs and hospitals for those who are not insured- this number is HUGE. No one talks about the amount of healthcare dollar spent by individuals which is either within a deductible or just plain their uncovered portion that they have to pick up- this number is HUGE.

SO, when you do account for these things and add them all together (wonder of wonders), you would find that SINGLE PAYER would be a fantastic savings overall- BUT, they don't want us to know this.

The Dem's and Repugs work for the same corporate elite. Go look at industry donations.

We would be better off not to SETTLE for the shit they want to give us because, if we wait, more people will figure it out and get pissed. THEN, we might have a chance to force their hand. Settling now would be an extreme mistake and simply put, another wealth transfer. It would be no different than Medicare Part D was, this is the best we can get so we have to settle BS.

Afterall, no one has said what our mandatory premiums would be, have they?? NOPE. Well then, how about we trade our food and housing portion of our income for healthcare. Great trade, huh? Another corporate lock on middle class income. JUST SAY NO!!!!

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» I agree it's more fuzziness Posted by: james108
» RE: Damn right Posted by: kogwonton
I thought states already have those rights.
Posted by: CarlaWaters on Jul 18, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where in the Constitution does it say that states don't have the right to create their own single payer healthcare? Don't get me wrong. I think that it is a great idea that each state should have its single payer health care system in place but in the end we're still going to need a national one despite the odds. Otherwise, I don't mind Kucinich's amendment.

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thanks, author
Posted by: meronkun on Jul 18, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was a really good, informative article.

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» and thanks to Kip Sullivan Posted by: Ripcord
We Are About To Make History on US Health Care Reform
Posted by: drricklippin on Jul 18, 2009 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know that it is not football season yet but we must move this health care reform ball over the goaline now.Obama is pushing

Kucinich can help him.

We must drag the moderate Dems and Pubs kicking and screaming with us. But, nevertheless. drag them we must.

(The conservative Pubs have become hopelessly marginalized)

FOLKS- THIS ISSUE IS A MAJOR TEST OF OUR NATION'S COMMITTMENT TO BASIC FAIRNESS

We must not delay a day longer.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa

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13 Republicans voted for Kucinich's amendment
Posted by: markg8 on Jul 18, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I stayed up til 1 Thursday night and watched them pass this amendment. Creepy Tom Price (GA-06) was licking his chops knowing full well if this provision is included in the final bill GOP lawyers can tie the whole thing up for years, all the way to the Roberts Supreme Court, which will certainly rule for states rights in the end effectively gutting any reform. If you want a decade of litigation instead of healthcare reform I'm afraid this amendment opens that door.

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» Repubs are people too. Posted by: -matti
JT Barrie
Posted by: rimchamp77 on Jul 18, 2009 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biggest problem is that in "socialist oriented" Europe price is not an object for anyone talented enough to learn how to be a competent doctor. New doctors are not burdened with a fortune in student loans in order to gain a medical license. We have a "shortage" of medical care in this country because it is too damn expensive to enter the medical care field. We do not lack for talented people who want to become doctors because of the "burdens of government induced bureaucracies and rampant malpractice suits".
There is no "free market" in medical care in this country. If there was then there would be an influx of new doctors to meet the demand caused by demographics. We have a contrived shortage of medical care to protect the interests of those already there. Those in medical care and insurance make out like bandits because of the lack of competition.
Our newest growth industry is training and education. It's not there because we lack highly skilled workers. It's there because we are told that skills are not enough. We need credentials and licenses which increasingly involve invasions of our life like background checks [with "privileged" information that can derail "free thinkers"], fingerprints, drug tests [that have absolutely nothing to do with safety], and a period of indentured servitude to enhance the incomes of those already in place.
While the interests of consumers are not addressed in this "vetting" process the interests of those in charge are. We don't empower anyone who is likely to speak out on consumer oriented changes.

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» they come here Posted by: james108
The committee that is congress
Posted by: freshlemon on Jul 18, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is like any committee, the IQ level of individuals immediately drops 10 to 20 points. It becomes a battle of egos and self-interests more than a group working to solve a problem.

Voters put these people in office because they made promises that we expected them to keep.One of those promises was a better healthcare system. Unfortunately self and political interests is once again "trumping the right thing to do".

Kucinich is a beacon in a desolate field of bone-headed democrats and republicans.

Perhaps the healthcare plan enjoyed by members of congress at our expense should be rescinded. Let them get their own insurance. Other employers don't have any problem doing that so why not?

We should also be prepared to expel congress members who accept any contributions from lobbyists in the health care industry or any other industry that claims to provide service to the American people. They are not serving, they are fleecing.

It's time to get big business out of of the law-making process. Big business and honesty are not compatible. Most Americans prefer honesty and fair dealing.

Kudos to Dennis Kucinich and his "eye on the prize" common sense.

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» Big business Posted by: tatamchwh
Jerry
Posted by: jtpayne@indaw.com on Jul 18, 2009 10:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I totally support the idea of single payer for all no matter how we have to achieve it. My question about the Kucinich amendment is:If we let states adopt this on a state by state basis, will each individual state be forced to adopt the same identical Plan similar to the way Medicare works now or will each state have a plan with different benefits and eligibility rules similar to the way Medicaid now works. This is very important in my opinion because you loose a lot of bargaining power for negotiating with providers and suppliers if the plan isn't the same for all states. This is why Medicare the Single Payer for our Seniors 65 and older is so cost effective and Medicaid isn't. Canada experienced this problem when they first started their Single Payer plan back in the 50's. They started out by letting each province adopt thier own plan but soon realized it wasn't going to work without uniform benefits and rules nation wide so they changed their plan to a National plan rather than Province by Province. We don't want to make that same mistake when we first start up or the Republicans, Drug Companies and Insurance Companies will beat us to death with all the problems we would incur.

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» RE: Jerry Posted by: kip sullivan
Iowa US Representive on committee voted with Kucinich
Posted by: sausage on Jul 18, 2009 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But our rich kid Democratic governor isn't even on the Obama "public option" bandwagon!

"Iowa's Democratic governor is urging congress to pass a health care reform package by the end of this year, but Governor Chet Culver is reluctant to express support for a "public option" that would let Americans choose from a private insurance plan or a government-run plan similar to the policy for members of congress."
http://www.radioiowa.com/ July 14.

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Iowa US Representive on committee voted with Kucinich
Posted by: sausage on Jul 18, 2009 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But our rich kid Democratic governor isn't even on the Obama "public option" bandwagon!

"Iowa's Democratic governor is urging congress to pass a health care reform package by the end of this year, but Governor Chet Culver is reluctant to express support for a "public option" that would let Americans choose from a private insurance plan or a government-run plan similar to the policy for members of congress."
http://www.radioiowa.com/ July 14.

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Go Dennis not the menace
Posted by: kib on Jul 18, 2009 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like Dennis's plan it allows people to see for themselves the benefits of both private and single payer health care plans from a state economic perspective. Southern Democrat

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» Flint of wood. Posted by: Sinibaldi
hmm. Does anybody know?...
Posted by: james108 on Jul 18, 2009 12:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much money do states' peoples give to the fed and how much they get back for health care?
I've seen bills where a State has the "option" of single payer but they don't get the money for it. In general, does this one let the State's peoples keep their money to pay for this? Do we still have to pay what we would otherwise for federal taxes? I'm trying to figure out how much we pay to the government for health care in terms of federal taxes, and how much the state would have with that back for single payer.

Is there a general formula or way to do any State?

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caronome
Posted by: Bayardtom on Jul 18, 2009 4:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As usual, Dennis comes up with the right idea about everything. If only the rest of Congress were up to his level. He should be our president. He really has the welfare of the people at heart.

Obama should listen to what Dennis has to say about everything. If he were really intelligent he would. We should tell him to do that. I will. Dennis should be in the cabinet except that we need him in Congress to hold Obama's feet to the fire.

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Republicans may be people too
Posted by: markg8 on Jul 18, 2009 4:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But I assure you the Republican congressmen who voted for Kucinich's amendment didn't do it because they want single payer. They'd love nothing better than a loophole to derail real reform with 50 different state experiments in health care. Single payer wouldn't work at the single state level. The powers arrayed against it would be too great. I suggest you read the House bill. It's got all kinds of great cost saving measures and regulations in it, not just on the insurance side, but the provider side too.

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Just say
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jul 19, 2009 3:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The next time someone tells you both parties work for the bankers--as they love to do, over and over--just say "Dennis Kucinich." :)

Of course, if both parties really worked for the corporations, they wouldn't be fielding a health-care bill in the first place, but never mind. We each create our own reality. Enjoy your kidneys flambeau.

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I'm right, no, I'm right, no you aren't, I'm right..........................
Posted by: sirios on Jul 19, 2009 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This country doesn't deserve a leader like Dennis K. because the populous is still only interested in being right, not the political right but the obsession with error free living and then blaming the "other side" when things go wrong, type of right. If we want this scenario, then the only possible outcome is defense of our "rightness" verbally and eventually physical conflict. It is not that there is a missing combination of ideas that we have not tried, but that the knowledge for resolution can NOT be found in the present level of the collective consciousness. Dennis seems to understand this by virtue of presenting a third point of view based on unifying the two" right' groups. this third view is seen as an affront on the rigid belief of the two [really one] party system and those that are intwined in their own self created limitations. Kucinich and his like will be heard and accepted when we listen to something deeper in ourselves. until then, puff yourself up and prepare for battle.

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The Raping of America by the Insurance Companies and Your Elected/Bribed Officials
Posted by: mikebppa on Jul 19, 2009 11:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That should be the name of a book that explains heathcare in America.

"GREED is a good thing", said Gordon Gekko in the movie Wall Street. However, when it comes to the common good, the general health of the American people, there should be no place for GREED.

When Congress and Franklin Roosevelt passed legislation in the 1930s, much of it was with the best interest of the American people.

We had the Glass Steagall Act, which separated banking, investment houses, and insurance companies. Unfortunately, Clinton with a Republican/Greedy Congress repealed this act. Anyone that knows the history of banking should prepare for the great economic collapse that leads to total anarchy as a result of this action by Clinton and the Republicans.

When Blue Cross Blue Shield was establish, it was the intent of Congress and the president to provide quality healthcare without the element of profit. After all, is it not in our best interests as a nation to have a healthy populace? Of course. However, there are Gordon Gekkos everywhere, including the executive ranks of the Blues plans in America, who only want to make profit so they can go from their $600,000+ incomes to the multi-million dollar payouts because of the huge profits being made, like other industries.

What Kucinich is telling America is that you will NOT see a national single payor health system. And he is right, you will not see that. The lobbyists in Washington, largely the insurance companies, have complete control of those people you have elected to represent you.

50 million people in America without healthcare, and another 50 million that have healthcare that isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

And oh yes, ILLEGAL ALIENS receive 100% paid healthcare, courtesy of the federal program Medicaid.

And yes, most of the citizens in America are sheep and believe what they are told to believe, that is why we are in Iraq, to spread something that no longer exists in America.....that's right democracy. Your elected officials get put into office by your vote, and then they carry out what the lobbyist bribe them to do.

Believe me when I tell you the differences between Russia and the USA in terms of governance are dwindling with each passing day.

Would it be wise for the farmer to make the fox the CIO of his farm? The answer is obvious. Then why do elected officials insist on giving a seat at the table for discussions regarding healthcare to the insurance companies?

Simply put, we could easily have a national single payor system that greatly reduces cost with some fundamental changes.

If it is true that 70-75% of the healthcare cost for the average person occurs in the last 3 months of life, then once it is determined a person has reached that point, that person should go into a hospice program.

Limit high cost procedures, i.e. transplants which often run over $1 million per event (I know someone that had five transplants for the same organ and died seven years subsequent to the first), and other high cost procedures. Regarding pharmaceuticals, restrict high cost NEW pharmaceuticals if there is a cheaper drug that can serve the same purpose. I know someone on a maintenance drug that cost $540 per month when a drug that cost $5 per month would create the same effect.

So, what would the program entail? And the bigger question is how do we make the insurance companies happy, and we have to keep them happy or WE the PEOPLE get bumpkis.

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The Raping of America by the Insurance Companies and Your Elected/Bribed Officials Part II
Posted by: mikebppa on Jul 19, 2009 11:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The single payor program should provide a set of procedures that focus on preventive healthcare, and these procedures are for everyone for medical and dental. If you get sick, emergency care, true emergency care, you are taken care of properly. However, the insurance companies get to offer you supplemental coverages that go beyond what is provided by the single payor program, literally PLANS A through ZZZ if necessary, and every company offering a plan provides the same benefits. The only variable is cost.

And by the way, ILLEGAL ALIENS would NOT be covered by this program, and Medicaid benefits would no longer be available. The influx of illegals into America is one major factor that will destroy this country. And elected officials are only doing the bidding of big business, who want the illegals, for it is driving down wages.

Illegals are not only those people that are standing on the corner of a McDonald's waiting for someone to come along and offer work for cash, they are now well entrenched in construction, in manufacturing, etc, and they do this using professional firms so that they can have deniability and say I did not hire any illegals.

There are nearly 30 healthcare programs funded by the federal government. When you add up the people funded by these programs, state programs, and state and local government employees, most of the people in America are receiving healthcare through your tax dollars. Why then do we deny one third of our population healthcare while providing it to illegals? Do you really think you have representive government?

The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different outcome. You keep electing the same people to return to Congress each year with very few changes, and yet you expect change.

The reality is you will NEVER see a national single payor system unless big insurance business determines a way to make even more money.

Remember the nearly 30 federal programs? Well there is a huge administrative cost for having all those programs, and that cost keeps the insurance companies very happy. It is not hard to determine what a national single payor healthcare system would look like, that is once one removes the Gekko GREED of the insurance company executives.

Wake up America!!!!

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» 100%, totally false Posted by: Joshua Holland
Renting vs owning
Posted by: Jeanne on Jul 19, 2009 12:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paying for health "insurance" every month versus a federal (or a state) single payer option seems to me comparable to renting vs owning a home. With private insurance, you "rent" your coverage month-to-month. Miss a payment, violate the terms of your rental agreement (by getting a truly serious illness, or having a pre-existing condition) your contract can be cancelled -- no recourse. With public/single payer, we all own the policy. It's paid for by taxes (plus a small premium that everyone pays every month -- like Medicare for the 65+). It's there, it's yours and no one can kick you out (or off). Your shelter is not owned by someone else who has the legal (if not moral) right to deny it to you, because by doing so, the value of their ownership (profits) goes up.

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My heart still goes out to Kucinich for his valiant efforts despite even life treating him badly. :(
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 19, 2009 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kucinich may not be "perfect" but he's one rare gem of a Democrat and I applaud his moves. Yesterday, I stumbled across an earlier heartbreaking article of the death of Frank Kucinich, brother of Dennis Kucinich and also an honorable Vietnam War Veteran who founded some of the greatest veteran organizations. I have seen a lot of criticism on states and single payer on this thread but I would like to remind everyone that we reap what we sow. If it's going to take states to pass single payer first before Washington can finally be forced to come clean, then so be it. I have more sympathy for the Kucinichs than even the Kennedys. I may feel angry enough that Kucinich was persecuted by the media and even his own party last year in the party but I can't help but wonder what it will take until society realizes that by marginalizing the valiant efforts of a true hero like Kucinich, society will have to bear the results of karma.

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» yeah Posted by: james108
» not to belittle Posted by: james108
» RE: not to belittle Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
Well done Dennis-Could you help with Accountability for Torture, as well?
Posted by: JohnHKennedy Denver CO on Jul 19, 2009 1:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rep, Kucinich has done a lot of good. We in the impeachment movement appreciated his efforts. After the election Rep. Conyers broke his promise to hold real impeachment hearings, but Dennis tried to stop Bush from pardoning his fellow criminals.

We hope he will find the time to help get enough investigations going in Congress to put all of them behind bars.

THIS is about violating Our Federal Laws and nothing else. See the Law

SIGN THE PETITIONS
Demanding both a Commission of Inquiry
and a Special Prosecutor For All Their Crimes at ANGRYVOTERS.ORG

You should also
contact AG Holder directly &
Demand a Special Prosecutor.


Department of Justice Switchboard - 202-514-2000
Office of the AG - 202-353-1555

Email: AskDOJ@usdoj.gov

U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001


NOTE: IF your group has a related petition, send me the url and I'll include it on our website.

We have all the petitions for investigation and prosecution of the criminals in the Bush Administration in one place
where you have quick and easy access. Takes just a few minutes to sign them all.

.

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» He's trying. What your Congress man/woman? Posted by: FULLPROOF BULLETPROOF
Republicans complain about $1 trillion in ten years
Posted by: Changling on Jul 19, 2009 2:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While we spend over $1 trillion yearly on our external empire! Why don't we pare that back by 90% and just see if we have the money for it. They don't complain, along with all of those Reddog Democrats over the $ trillions spent on our police state and military adventurism and occupations without a word of comment but if it comes to helping those who need help to live they fight tooth and nail against it. We see who their constituents are and it isn't us.

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I HAVE YET TO SEE DENNIS FAIL TO COME DOWN ON THE SIDE OF
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 20, 2009 12:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the angels.

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No way will this amendment survive the Senate
Posted by: jarbo on Jul 20, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those old rich white bastards will never let it happen.

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Buying Power
Posted by: mom'z the word on Jul 20, 2009 9:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This special interest/lobbyist thing is a real problem for the public interest when it comes time to vote on legislation like health care, sending our troops to war or bailout money. I think the term is undue influence. A simple solution might be that if any member of Congress is shown to have accepted one dime from a special interest group that would benefit from the legislation that is being voted on then that member who accepted money from that group can not vote on that legislation.

Voters should be the only 'special interest' that Congress is concerned with. Instead 'special interest' is all about the buying power that non-voters have.

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Don't states already have the right to create singe-payer?
Posted by: drcyflowers on Jul 20, 2009 12:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aren't states already free to start their own single-payer healthcare system? But they don't, for the same reason the federal government doesn't. Our democracy's been derailed by insurance corporations.

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Maple Leaf
Posted by: rws on Jul 20, 2009 1:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kucinich for President !
Yeah that's the ticket not some Wall St. whore.
Besides cutting the health care parisites and fat out of this cursed American denial of service system make the insurance companies bottom line get rich by any means model
is the omission of effective paradymn shifting alternatives to the petrochemical pharmicuetical allopathic cut , burn , posion options.
Revive the development of the highest quality Rife type light microscopesand light tube radio frequency super generators.
The Warburg model of reversing and healing disease conditions through establishing optimal nutrative enzymated / mineralized / alkaline / oxygenated / physiological states.
Prevention of all disease is ultimately a cooperative ,collabertive ,cultural scientific creation of the will of the people (or the ultimate cut your losses by doing the best for human health ethic).
Intention (motivated creative potential) + Attention (practiced cultured enviornmental activity)= Coincedental Manifestation (spontaneous balanced function)

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» RE: Maple Leaf Posted by: mom'z the word
world heath comm
Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 21, 2009 9:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]