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Does the Right Want a Civil War?

Posted by Sara Robinson, Orcinus at 10:50 AM on June 13, 2009.


People are being shot dead at the rate of several per month now. And it's figures on the Right that are putting the killers up to it.

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Dear Conservatives:

Your fellow Americans demand an answer -- and we want it now. Just one simple question:

Are you deliberately trying to start a civil war?

Just answer the question. Yes or no. Don't insult us with elisions, evasions, dithering, qualifications, or conditional answers. We need to know what your intentions are -- and we need to know NOW. People are being shot dead in the streets of America at the rate of several per month now. You may not want responsibility for this -- but the whackadoodles pulling the triggers make no bones about who put them up to this.

You did.

The assassins themselves are ratting you out. They're telling us, straight up, that they were inspired to act by the hate radio talkers that you empowered -- one of whom is now the de facto head of the Republican party. They got it from media outlets owned by your biggest donors. They got it from bloggers who receive daily talking points faxed in from the GOP. They got it from activists representing causes that would have never become causes in the first place if the issues hadn't been politically expedient for you.

Beyond that: You've already admitted your own complicity.

When the Department of Homeland Security expressed their worries about right-wing extremist violence last April, practically every conservative pundit in the country went into a righteous fit. DHS never named anyone directly, so it was astonishing how many of you on the right were so quick to step up and claim that that memo was slandering you, personally and collectively. Since you were so eager to claim that that memo was all about you, now that the violence has come to pass, we're well justified in holding you to that.

And please don't insult our intelligence by saying that these acts are the work of lone wolves, and that you don't have anything to do with this, and that it's all the fault of the left. It's true that there have always been crazies in our midst. But by choosing to gain power through a politics that only motivates through hate and fear, you've recruited a good-sized army of those crazies, armed them up, and turned them into paranoid monsters that are now running loose on the American landscape.

We know you have absolute and utter contempt for the intelligence of the average American, but trying to blame the left for creating this situation is a fabrication so vast that it tells us you don't even have so much as a shred of respect for yourselves. Even you seem to know that your word is worth nothing to most Americans now -- and you don't seem to care.

You don't seem to give a damn about the future of this country, either. You're just in it to win the next election, increase profits for the next quarter, or boost your ratings in the next book. As long as selling hate accomplishes any of these goals, you'll do it -- without regard for the cultural sewage you're creating, without regard for the way you've polluted the political landscape, and now apparently without even a moment's regard for the innocent lives that are being lost because you seem bent on destroying every shred of trust required for our democracy to function.

But the bodies are piling up. We are demanding an accounting from you. We are demanding that you take responsibility for the situation you've created. We are looking you straight in the eyes and demanding a straight answer:

Are you deliberately trying to start a civil war?

If your answer is yes, then stop this cowardly half-assed screwing around. You speak the language of war and honor; but the honor code of the warriors you pretend to revere demands that you declare your intentions. If you really believe that the only way to get the America you want is to negate a fair election, shred the Constitution, and violently cleanse the country of everyone who doesn't agree with you, then man up and get on with it. If it's a shooting war you want, do not doubt that there are plenty of progressives who will oblige you. If this goal is so important that you're really willing to kill for it, please don't forget that you will also need to be willing to die for it. Because, like martyrs Greg McKendry and Steven Johns proved, we are willing to do whatever is necessary to stop you.

If your answer is no, then you have just one other choice. Knock off the tantrums, grow up, rebuild your party, come back to the table, and sit down and govern with us. (We know this will be a stretch, but we think some of you are capable of it.) You will need to learn, many of you for the first time, to get your way as adults do -- without fear-based politics, polarizing rhetoric, on-air threats against those who disagree with you, and repeating outrageous lies in the face of stone facts and irrefutable evidence.

And most of all: you need to stop feeding the crazies. You need to disavow them in every way possible -- sincerely, emphatically, and with full awareness that every time one of these people acts, it destroys the credibility of "conservatives," "Republicans," and "the right wing" in the eyes of the country. You cannot assassinate your way back to power. And don't doubt for a moment that the majority of Americans -- even those who agree with your ideas -- will abandon your cause forever once it realizes that's what you're trying to do.

Since you're the ones funding the violent radicals on your flank, you need to stop sending them money. Since you know far more about their activities than any one else, you need to be the ones who turn them in. Since you're the ones who make heroes and martyrs out of them, you need to be the ones who call them out as criminals. Until you do this -- consistently, wholeheartedly, and responsibly -- we can only conclude that these assassins are operating with your support and approval, and that you are intentionally trying to start an armed revolution in America.

That's your choice. Are you deliberately trying to start a civil war? Or are you willing to work for real civility, and return to your seat at the table, ready to help us choose the country's future?

Yes or No. Right now. The window is closing fast behind you. And once it closes, none of us -- not you, not us, not anyone -- will have the choice to avoid the catastrophe that will follow. It's your decision. And you need to make it now.

Digg!

Tagged as: civil war, conservatives, extremism

Sara Robinson is a Fellow at the Campaign for America's Future, and a consulting partner with the Cognitive Policy Works in Seattle. One of the few trained social futurists in North America, she has blogged on authoritarian and extremist movements at Orcinus since 2006, and is a founding member of Group News Blog.


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Sara is stating the obvious but it needed to be said
Posted by: Paul_C on Jun 13, 2009 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I particularly like her statement that these causes did not exist until right wing think tanks started organizing and funding them.

We hear nothing of these think tanks, more properly war rooms in their declared war on the left, the largest of which pull in over $100 million a year in corporate "grass roots" money.

Make no mistake, this is war for the right, and they are heavily funded and single-mindedly committed to win at all costs.

That is why I laugh when I hear naive Obama claim he will work with them. How do you compromise with someone who has declared open war against everything you stand for?

Let's get real people and understand the enormity of the challenge before us.

peace,
Paul

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» RE: If you notice.... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: If you notice.... Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: If you notice.... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Sara is -Jesus Posted by: trusetufree
» This cracks me up. Posted by: Dillinger77
» RE: This cracks me up. Posted by: Morell
» Civil War IS coming Posted by: BambiB
Great article, I agree a LOT of that needed to be said
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Jun 13, 2009 1:04 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Especially the stuff about the financial ties. Compare that to the way Islamic people have been accused of being terrorists for contributing to their mosques.

I'm not sure I agree with the 'sky is falling' last bit though, that threatening stuff was a little over the top for me.

But hey, we are women, sometimes there is good reason for us to get a little hysterical. These are those times. Speaking of which I found a bit I wanted to share,

Commander Maps New Course in Afghan War
U.S. Gen. McChrystal Departs From Special-Ops World With Focus on Diplomacy; 'Decapitation Strategies Don't Work'


I'm worried about our troops, all I know is this guy runs torture camps and is really good at killing people. What are they doing there? It makes NO sense to send more of them. Is he just a killing machine?

I keep asking but I never hear any answers.

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This is exactly why we need to have an anti-hate law enshrined
Posted by: Bearzerker on Jun 13, 2009 3:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Freedom of speech they espouse as a constitutional guarantee and gun ownership as a fundamental right put down by the founding fathers!
but every other right is slowly being eaten away by laws they themselves enshrined and by fear mongering and actions they themselves initiated worldwide!

here's my rebuttal to the gun control lobby wanting to protect the current laws on gun ownership...
1.)mandate liability insurance for all gun owners... failure to comply will result in immediate confiscation of the weapons till compliance is met, a 3rd offense means forfeiture and destruction of the weapon seized...
2.)the manufacturers of guns should be mandated to provide this yearly paid insurance, and they should also be required to take ballistics of all weapons they manufacture and...
3.)Under their plans,make their insurance registries available: to law enforcement to check ballistics; and to pay liability coverage to victims of gun violence.

Ownership isn't an issue with this idea... the weapons that have been used in violent crimes are being addressed and law enforcement and victims both... now have actions and relief from this rather simple plan... plus the gun manufacturers have another pot of money they can dip their profit engines into. it works for everyone.

lastly the guaranteed freedom of speech has to be protected, but protection must include protection of our youth and the weak in our society by bringing up and enforcing upon them, the dangers that hate brings upon society as a whole... we can have anti-hate laws that enforce the protection of the 1st amendment and not degrade it...it's been adopted before and can be again... anti-hate is the law in many other countries with exception of the "Land of the Fee"

the current people/plutocrats controlling the United states is making a mockery of the rights our founders enshrined in the constitution!
the current politicals are as cesspool of greed graft and cronyism with lobby interests at the heart of all problems as I see it!

President Obama promised changes but I only see the maintenance of the status Quo...

A civil war?
I can clearly see the dangers, that current political mismanagement and hatred is bringing. A civil war is a certainty unless we take action now!

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Hmmmmmmm
Posted by: talkville on Jun 13, 2009 3:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A bit of nuance might be in order in these days -- we're not out of the woods just yet by any means.

"Civil War" is a conception that has force, it has a charge, it has depth and it has extension. Physically and materially, we are fortunate that the tensions, contradictions and struggles occurring within our social relations have so far not reached that ugly state of affairs called "war" -- in many ways all these tensions and contradictions have so far been transported outwards toward such places as Iraq and Afghanistan and a host of other places. That's on the physical level.

On a symbolic and language level, however, and with strong and deep emotional and psychological investments, we have been in a 'civil (really not so civil!) war for a long while -- since at least the '60's and on many 'fronts' -- ideological ('kulturkampf'), economic (neo-liberalist privatization and globalization) and political (neo-conservatives, ultranationalism, 'values', 'culture', total security, total control).

These last two episodes (the killing of the doctor and the killing of the guard at the Holocaust Museum) are definite material and physical indicators of all these tensions, struggles, contradictions and pressures 'surfacing'.

It's pretty difficult these days, but especially the left must take to reasoning and responding rather than reacting to the incessant provocations of the right-wing. It's a profoundly serious and organized as well as obsessive right wing that is currently at work on our social, economic and political front.

Rather than 'civil war', I prefer what it has always been: class struggle. Defend with reason!!

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» RE: Hmmmmmmm Posted by: scott@alter
» RE: Hmmmmmmm Posted by: Quannah
» D E F L E C T I O N ? Posted by: Dillinger77
» RE: Hmmmmmmm Posted by: talkville
"Peace" does not mean I won't defend myself
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 13, 2009 4:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have two stickers on the back of my car the eclectic "Peace" symbols and 'Obama '08'. I can no longer guess at how many times I have had some idiot, for no apparent reason, ride my ass.Left lanes wide open. Often happens at night. So I have taken to carrying a foot long wood Horse twitch which has a looped chain on the end next to my drivers seat. In fact one person had his nose so far up my ass,that when I raised it in the glare of his headlights through my back window- he must have seen clearly what it was and immediately backed off.
I will not start the battle, nor throw the first punch- but if threatened this peace loving lefty will kick the shit out of any SOB who poses a threat to me and mine. US lefties have had enough of this shit for the last 3 decades- been putting up with your hate &fear mongering 'Holier than thou'BS since Reagan.Don't underestimate the size or ferocity of Our Base.

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» RE: Here's what YOU'RE missing. Posted by: Longdream
What's the difference?
Posted by: CaliJim on Jun 13, 2009 4:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What’s the difference between the need for Islamic and Muslim moderates and the spokespersons, either official or unofficial, of their mainstream religious/political organizations to denounce the use of hatred and violence in promoting the agendas of their extremist elements and the need for Republican and Christian moderates and the spokespersons, either official or unofficial, of their mainstream religious/political organizations to denounce the use of hatred and violence in promoting the agendas of their extremist elements? NONE.

Failure of the moderate mainstream of all religions and nations to step up to condemn and attempt to restrain their extremist fringe groups from using violence in their disagreements with opponents is one of two things, moral cowardice or implicit support for those actions.

Here are a few quotes from a 2002 speech by George W. Bush that are relevant to the issue:

“…The hatred of a few holds the hopes of many hostage. The forces of extremism and terror are attempting to kill progress and peace by killing the innocent….”

“…There is simply no way to achieve that peace until all parties fight terror. Yet, at this critical moment, if all parties will break with the past and set out on a new path, we can overcome the darkness with the light of hope….”

“…I've said in the past that nations are either with us or against us in the war on terror. To be counted on the side of peace, nations must act. Every leader actually committed to peace will end incitement to violence in official media, and publicly denounce homicide bombings….”

“…Leaders who want to be included in the peace process must show by their deeds an undivided support for peace….”

Statements by Republican and “Christian” leaders that vilify their opponents, give credence to the concept of secession from the United States, falsify or distort the truth in a way to inflame followers or convey the concept that the violence is somehow justified and approved of by their god (“God sent the killer” and similar sentiments were recently observed following the cowardly and vicious murder of Dr. George Tiller) are actions that are no different than the same actions committed by the Taliban, Al Qaeda and others who act in the same fashion.

I’ve said for years that we are in a cultural war…not between Christians and Muslims, Democrats and Republicans, American citizens and citizens of other nations, but, between the extreme religious/racial based bigotry and total lack of acceptance and tolerance shown by fundamentalists of all types and the scientific/humanist/freedom based tolerance of differences and individual rights that is the basis of all civilization and the core of the values of United States of America.

Those of you who share beliefs with the violent extremists and don’t speak out or take action against their violence are equally culpable – particularly if you have knowledge of illegal activities or plans, but fail to notify the appropriate authorities.

So…what is it? Are you supportive of a United States of America with freedom, liberty and the rights and privileges that promote the pursuit of happiness for ALL members of our society, or are you aligned with the dark and violent forces who will not be satisfied until our society has literally been purged of all people who don’t think, act and believe EXACTLY as you do? Are you (as appears to me to be the case) following the same path as the slave states in insisting on “my way or the highway”? As the author says “That's your choice. Are you deliberately trying to start a civil war? Or are you willing to work for real civility, and return to your seat at the table, ready to help us choose the country's future?”

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» but once again, reason fails Posted by: jcalhoun
» WHY does someone always suggest Posted by: aislinnluv
» Give them? Posted by: EinMD
» "They"???? Posted by: Dillinger77
republicans have had it both ways for too long.
Posted by: lionsdenmother on Jun 13, 2009 6:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they are such hipocrits

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» RE: It was the white man's rule Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» It always comes back to this.. Posted by: cheryljohns
» WTF Posted by: EinMD
» RE: WTF Posted by: Sister_Lauren
DON'T HELP THEM. THE REPUBLICO-WHIGS MAY JUST BE COMMITTING
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jun 13, 2009 9:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
suicide. They somehow think that more of the same piled higher and deeper will somehow work. It was Einstein that suggested that if you tried the same solution over and over expecting a different result you could be classified as insane.

The republicans beleive that 6 months is a lifetime in politics. I suppose that 6 months before the 2010 elections that they will somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat. After all Reagan dealt against the U.S. government arranging for the Teheran embassy to be held past election day. You or I would have been shot at sunrise. They will cut a deal with some nasty dictator behind our backs. They have done it before.

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The chickenhawks "sow the wind." They have no guts.
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jun 14, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of their nutjob followers, unfortunately, have guts aplenty and not much brain.

Could anyone see the likes of Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity or Savage manning the barricades?

They will never admit that fomenting violence is their goal; they hide behind the first amendment like they hid from selective service, wording their calls for violence carefully enough that they believe that they have successfully skirted the law.

They will continue to shift blame for what they incite - and they will continue to incite. When they do "reap the whirlwind," I fully expect it to come from the very wackjobs they are now inciting as they are forced to crawfish back from all the incitement by simple self-preservation - the one "principle" they all rigorously adhere to.

This "betrayal" will anger the loonies even more than Obama - or we on the left - have succeeded in doing, and when the hot lead really starts to fly (which it will very soon unless they start dialing the rhetoric back immediately) the one that comes "out of the blue" will have been aimed from the right - not from anywhere left.

When it happens - and it will - there will be crying and moaning from some. Decent folks in the media will decry all the violence, and declare themselves saddened by same. Me? I'm gonna giggle a lot.

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can we please just stop calling the "GOP"?
Posted by: wwittman on Jun 14, 2009 9:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Old" I will certainly grant you

but there's nothing "Grand" about them, unless you mean by weight.

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» Grumpy Old Pussies fits Posted by: Hiroak
» RE: Grumpy Old Pussies fits Posted by: mary-alias
God Yes They Do
Posted by: Lilly on Jun 14, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Does the right want a civil war?" Don't think you can answer that question unless you've spent some time reading their posts to conservative websites. I keep advertising townhall.com because I get the impression that the mainstream US doesn't have a clue how trigger-happy these folks are, and I feel like the canary in the coal mine.

Posters to townhall have two central themes: 1) I am angry and 2) I am armed. The right-wing media feed them crazy stuff then the good folks add further distortions assisted by personal pathology and they end up with Obama as Science Fiction Monster (building concentration camps and gulags, sending thugs to confiscate their weapons, seducing our kids into a Hitler Youth Corps, using his personal army to shoot citizens, etc). And to them, the resulting Bizarro World is a true place where good citizens have no moral choice but to attack.

Meanwhile their media drop not-so-subtle hints that anxiety need not be tolerated and that happiness can be restored by taking action (using phrases like Rise up!, not going to take it any more, new American Revolution, action as patriotism). Right-wing posters love to brag about their guns, arsenals, and caches of ammunition. They love to threaten that they are "ready for" any who may oppose their intent. They often fantasize about a shootout, a showdown, a combat action against the government, liberals, Washington, various enemies of Real Americans. Yesterday there was a long thread about getting the US military to refuse to take orders from a Commander-in-Chief despised by the Right---so the fantasy also includes subverting the military to the right-wing cause.

Recently Sean Hannity allowed on his website a poll as to whether Americans would rather overthrow the Obama government by military coup, secession, or an armed uprising.

Frank Rich this morning (NYT) pointed out that conservative intellectuals aren't stepping up to debunk the craziness as McCain did when he told the lady that no, Obama is not an Arab. Their silence recalls the famous words "Will no one rid me of this tiresome priest?" that ended in the murder of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

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» Well I got news for them Posted by: EinMD
There is certainly an element of the Republics that would gladly
Posted by: Quannah on Jun 14, 2009 6:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
see this country go down the tubes if they can't be in control. They are the ones to be wary of.

Look at the Republics who make up the leadership in Congress. They aren't people who are willing to accept their loss of power, let alone work with the opposition. The House Republics will give Obama zero votes on important legislation. The Senate Republics are quick to threaten a filibuster if they don't get their way -- even on Supreme Court nominations.

Their silence is deafening. They can't even stand up and denounce the rantings of lunatics like Rush Limbaugh! It's clear to see who's running the show in the Republic camp. And, make no mistake...

the lunatics are running the asylum.

Civil War may not be inevitable, but it certainly is within the realm of possibility considering these fools operate under the assumption that they have nothing to lose.

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The Sound of One Dick Swinging
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Jun 15, 2009 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA

PROSECUTE DICK CHENEY FOR WAR CRIMES

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Yet another hysterical article trying to reinforce the left-right paradigm...
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 15, 2009 1:02 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and decrying our 2nd Amendment.

There were some good points in the article, but:

A well-armed citizenry is a necessary check & balance against tyrannical government. (Think back to Hitler merely 70 years ago. Was there a reason he kept the populace disarmed?)

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» An "armed militia" may be needed Posted by: grindermonkey
» You should learn some history Posted by: ReallyBearish
» You should learn the present Posted by: YogiBear
Show me your data.
Posted by: jmjohnson39 on Jun 15, 2009 1:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Statements like this, require data to back them up. What is the percent of increase in shootings "in the street" over the last 10 years. Is it significant? Or are you using tragedies to attempt to make your point. Show us the data!

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» RE: Show me your data. Posted by: kindmuse
» RE: You sound awfully defensive Posted by: Sister_Lauren
...our Constitution as an "enemy document"...
Posted by: Plenum on Jun 15, 2009 1:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They work within, and work with the tools that our Democracy offers, to overthrow what has become a battered Constitution and corrupted Constitutional government. Their aim uses, as well, the Christian fundamentalists as a basis for inciting and justifying violence. They obviously regard the Constitution as an "enemy Document" except in that it is a tool to further their aims. With a great majority of the media on their side, little can be done except through articles like this, true as they are to a minority, us.

This all has been in the process since the Reagan years - the Christian absurdity, the divisive violence, the warped and illogical policies (foreign and domestic), the endless wars and war-making - all for the aim of maintaining economic power (primary goal) and towards the construction of a theocratic United States of America (supportive and ultimately the BIG FAT LIE that will keep the system running).

Personally, I don't think it can be stopped. Any moral and any physical resistance is far to disorganized. Their war is less against you and me except that we appear to them to stand in the way of the ultimate wars against the non-Christian lands of Asia, and ultimately China.

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» YEAH! Posted by: EinMD
DON'T CONFUSE THE NEW WORLD ORDER WITH CONSERVATIVES
Posted by: joeocho88 on Jun 15, 2009 2:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The New World Order wants to restore the monarchies of the world and control the rest of us as peons and slave labor and depending on them for every scrap we may or may nor get...

Conservatives want to keep things the same as they always have been...

Right-wingers are called NAZIS -- they are in reality the ORIGINAL EUROPEAN -STYLE SOCIALISTS. NATIONAL SOCIALIST WORKERS PARTY which in German becomes the acronym NAZI.

And people say that the Left-wingers are Socialists and Communists... Again, who is the REAL SOCIALIST here?

We are seeing the wreckage of the American economic system and a lot of people's hopes and dreams with it. When I was getting out of school, Jimmy Carter ( cursed be he) was trying to wreck our country's economy and that moron only lasted ONE term. There were NO jobs for folks just graduating from anywhere and I actually saw PhDs doing janitor work and Master's degreed people driving cabs and people with bachelor's degrees fighting high school graduates for the burger-flipping and pizza delivery jobs.

And it seems every time I get on my feet, another damned recession knocks me out of my job and I have to start looking again for a job I do not have the training to do since mine have become technologically obsolete.
WHEN YOU GET OLDER IT GETS HARDER TO FIND A JOB!
And by the time I have obtained these jobs skills, nobody wants to hire me --they say I do not have enough experience even though I have state of the art skills.

SO TELL ME HOW THINGS NEVER CHANGE AND HOW THEY STAY THE SAME.

IT IS ALMOST AS BAD AS CARTER UNLESS BARACK OBAMA CAN DO THE IMPOSSIBLE AND REVERSE THIS SEWER THAT BUSHES AND CHENEY AND THEIR DEAR FRIEND CLINTON TURNED OUT COUNTRY INTO.

WORKING NOW? NOT FOR LONG! STAY TUNED.

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The right are cowards egging one another on
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 15, 2009 2:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's like the whole right wing is saying, "Confiscate our guns--please!" ;)

In my view, the talk of civil war is just frustrated white guys venting their feelings.

The Right in America are having a whopping big temper tantrum, that's all. They are in no way brave enough, tough enough, nor organized enough to start a real civil war.

Think of the Right wing in America as a bunch of cowards provoking one another--a bunch of chickensh*ts daring one another to take the first shot. Once in a while, one of them takes a shot. It's dangerous; it's unhealthy; but it's not civil war.

Actually, America has been in a state of undeclared civil war ever since the Republicans stole the 2000 election. If Democrats had any moxie, they would have been out on the streets when that happened. This suggests that neither the left nor right are tough enough for a shooting war at this point. Both left and right seem more into sneaking around playing dirty tricks.

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SECEDE.... NOW!!! I'm beggin ya!!
Posted by: rugger on Jun 15, 2009 3:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, stop this nonsesne, get out of our conutry, start your own nation of Dubmfuckistan, and get the hell out! We won't stop you this time. Please accept our apologies for winning the first civil war, this could be another Glorious Revolution. Jefferson even thought we needed a revolution now and then.

GET THE FUCK OUT!!!

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» Furwitchistan Posted by: Hiroak
cherry pick to fit you goals
Posted by: fantasypoliticsusa on Jun 15, 2009 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The writer has cherry picked a couple of psychopaths to prove a very invalid point. No one wants a civil war, and no one is calling for one. Are you trying to claim a war between Repugs and Demothugs? That is just ridiculous and the writer themselves is doing nothing more than stirring up shit. What about the Muslim guy that shot up the recruiting office, and killed the army recruiter? Why are you not looking for some crazy point counter point from that incident? And why did you ignore that incident, oh because it didn't help prove you totally invalid point. This is a pitiful expose coming from a high school level at best, and the comments so far are no better. I thought Alternet was forum for progressives, not children.

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» Bill O'Reilly is murder's front man. Posted by: grindermonkey
Conservatives want to be left alone
Posted by: lisafrequency on Jun 15, 2009 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A real conservative is not looking for war they want limited government and a non intervention foreign policy.

The real conservatives denounce the babble of Limbah,Hannity, and others who merely claim to represent us.

The ideals of the Constitution are still good and valid. It is the politicians that are trampling it.

These crazy people who are out shooting others because they hate them or who do not have the same view do not represent me or the people who believe as I do and we are not funding them in any way.

If we are going to label these people as conservatives then I am not one.

Many people get shot every day so far I have only seen 2 persons political affiliation mentioned.

Conservative is not a bad word. Conservatives want to conserve in the real sense of the word. Conserve life, money and resources.

A conservative wants the government out of personal decisions such as abortion and marriage and thinks the government ought not be funding or regulating them. Don't do it with our tax dollars is all we are asking.

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» your main point is valid Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: your main point is valid Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: Conservatives just wanna have fun Posted by: timenotonmyside
» RE: Conservatives want to be left alone Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» Whatever Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Whatever Posted by: lisafrequency
» RE: Whatever Posted by: Quannah
I'm seeing some inconsistency here...
Posted by: kogwonton on Jun 15, 2009 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole 'right wing' is capable of being cohesive enough to organize and wage a covert war with the total support of the 'corporate media' shock jocks, through funding and manipulation of right wing hate groups in the U.S. (If you don't believe me, Josh Holland wrote an article about this specifically)

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8424

Isn't this exactly the sort of 'conspiracy' Alternet so condescendingly debunks on a daily basis? Aren't people who believe such conspiracies 'right wing fanatics' who are not only anti-Semitic, but gun-toting terrorists as well? There have been a dozen Alternet articles saying as much in the last two weeks. But the right-wing political and financial handlers of these militant right wing terrorists are also completely incompetent. They started the Iraq war based upon lies, and had NO exit strategy. Iraq was (obviously) a miserable failure. Forget for a moment that these folks actually expressed their intentions for the region years before they even 'took' office in 2000.

http://www.newamericancentury.org

/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

(remove the space)

They were clear about their intent to create a permanent military presence in Iraq, and to justify it through the fomenting and nurturing of a continued 'insurgency'. It would seem they are 'incompetent' only if you assume that they actually intended to 'win' a war in Iraq, and then leave.

Then there is the bankrupting of the nation by the DoD contractors, the war profiteers, energy companies, and the whole banking system - then the subsequent extortion of trillions more from the Federal bailout. More incompetence, right?

Obviously these guys are too incompetent to form any kind of 'conspiracy' to take advantage of a little 'blow back' to get the ball rolling on all of this, such as the attacks of 9/11. Certainly they would have done something to prevent that if they could have. Everyone else who already saw the conduct of the 'right' as covert warfare, as 'revolutionary', are just crazy, right?

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One thing you forgot, Palin and her ilk
Posted by: maryyooch on Jun 15, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree totally with your post. One thing you left out, kind of, is the rhetoric used by republican politicians. Just listen to how Palin slams Obama every chance she gets with her nonsense. "Trying to control the people with bail outs". How does that even make sense? Palin and her ilk are arousing the most hateful crazies that are out there. They cry about big goverment all the time, but will do anything they can to be in control of it.
In this time of economic turmoil, there should be programs that help out the unemployed, people losing their homes and the homeless. They need to bring AFDC back. If there were a safety net, maybe half these people wouldn't be as stressed out as they are.
But, then we'll still have the crazies. You are right about how hate speech is the prime motivator. But how do you get around "Freedom of Speech"? Yes, they do/did twist every argument/debate their way and get away with it. Can't they be sued with each bullshit utterance for libel or slander?(Regarding hate radio/T.V.) Just the publicity of a law suit would make some people think a little harder.

I do believe that they want some kind of revolution. But it would only destroy Democracy that Bush himself declared he advocates. What a joke!

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I would say, yes.
Posted by: EinMD on Jun 15, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right wing wants a war. Because all of their rhetoric since the late 70's early 80's has been geared specifically towards taking this country over and remaking it into some sort of Jesus theme part with them at the helm.

Once one side of a conflict decides on a war, there's going to be a war. Apparently they didn't learn from the first civil war and think that because they have more factories and rail lines now (paid for by federal money I might add) that they'd somehow be able to win and the "South will rise again".

So let Texas and the rest secede because it will drive the point home that much further when we invade them and forcefully take back the states one at a time and once it's all done the Republic of Texas can spend their time paying back all the damages they cause in their question for Jesusland.

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» RE: I would say, no Posted by: Evelyn
» RE: I would say, yes. Posted by: TheNamelessCity
All this is just a symptom of our weak and ineffective leadership in Washington.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jun 15, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama and most Democrats in Congress are giving no priority to truly progressive/liberal ideas such as legalizing cannabis, restoring our civil liberties, ending the occupation in Iraq, fighting for single payer health care, etc ... Instead, they're too busy bailing out Wall $treet and getting ready to put more mercenaries in Iraq and bomb Pakistan, Afghanistan, and possibly Iran. When the electorate feels dejected and left out from their supposed representation, what's to stop them from resorting to things like buying guns and ammo out of anger? Preach all you want but until government stops selling us out and putting us in tears and anger, don't expect the rightwing to die down.

PEACE

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» RE: You are exactly right Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: You are exactly right Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
Dreaming
Posted by: Aquinas on Jun 15, 2009 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sara, if you expect the "current" Republican party to act responsibly and put the nation ahead of its interest, you want what never was and never will be. The Republicans need a thorough remake of their leadership to get rid of clowns like McConnel and Boehner, before the American public will ever take them seriously again.
The Republicans have disgraced the term "loyal opposition" and have become the "treacherous opposition" as they scream hysterically, pout and stamp their feet, in their attempt to bring the government to a complete halt, because they want to be in charge, even though the people have voted them out of power. Such intransigence is not only in very poor taste, it is very dangerous to the health of the nation.

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It was never about the Left
Posted by: jebpgh on Jun 15, 2009 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How ironic that the folks who won the election have gone out of their way to show how reasonable and balanced they are on nearly every critical issue yet the very act of doing so seems to merely raise the level of hate speech on the Right. Clearly, the Right created and invented the Left in order to attack it. The Left is a broad, generally undefined collection of folks with liberal to progressive tendencies that cover a wide array of issues and concerns. The Right, on the other hand, is a narrowly focused and primarily reactionary cadre of individuals and media-based leadership that have only one real goal in mind and that is simply to control the nation at both the social and political levels. It should have been obvious of course when Rove was building his cynical manipulation of the crazies - both religious and otherwise - to sustain power.

What is startling, though it shouldn't be, is how compliant the MSM is in reflecting the message and carrying out the goals of an inherently fascist element in our politics. We need to keep isolating this cancer in our democracy as much as possible without losing our humanity - but we better recognize it for what it is - a cancer.

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» Of course not. It's us and them. Posted by: grindermonkey
You're either with us or with the haters
Posted by: dover23 on Jun 15, 2009 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is worse than most realize. These right-wing nutjobs threaten our way of life. We need a new national priority, a new War On Hate so to speak. Rights still protected under law need to be temporarily suspended to allow law enforcement to take the action necessary to find out who the haters are and then lock them up. It is our patriotic duty to support this War On Hate and anyone that objects should be viewed with suspicion and considered a potential hater themselves.

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» Paid Troll Posted by: EinMD
» I hate faux freedom lovers Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Paid Troll Posted by: iolanthe
» Good one Posted by: CUnknown
a shooting war
Posted by: Evelyn on Jun 15, 2009 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If it's a shooting war you want, do not doubt that there are plenty of progressives who will oblige you."

No, I don't think this part is true. I don't want to kill conservatives. I don't even want to kill right-wing extremists, and neither does anyone else I know of on the left. That doesn't mean we are defenseless against the crazies, but to make it sound like both sides are equally willing to let this degenerate into a shooting war is simply not true.

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» RE: a shooting war Posted by: MT512
Dumb limp dick viagra chompers
Posted by: frankly1 on Jun 15, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If brains were dynamite the American conservative movement could'nt supply enough for a single bomb!

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» Too true Posted by: frankly1
Those behind movement conservatives don't want civil war
Posted by: sausage on Jun 15, 2009 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That right wing "think" tanks are well-funded is a given. That right wing radio and television is well-funded is a given.

But, ask yourself, would the moneyed backers of reaction really want a civil war to erupt in the United States?

I think the answer is no.

Like the author of this blog op-ed I too am tired of the coordinators of the reactionary right, your GOP politicians, your radio bloviators etc, prattling on and on how the "second amendment" is really the first and how Thomas Jefferson said the tree of liberty needs a fresh infusion of blood fertilizer from time to time. But the guys who sign the paychecks and campaign checks for the Glenn Becks, Sean Hannitys, John Boehners and Mitch McConnells of this country really don't want all the neo-Nazis, Ted Nugent-fans and all the other various and assorted gun totting kooks, crazys and survivalists actuallty taking it to the streets.

And the reason is simple: If a new civil war were to break out in the United States eventually the poor rural and urban whites, who are the foot soldiers of reaction, would wake up to the idea that they in fact are being used and eventually turn on their bourgeoisies puppet masters and coordinator class officers. That doesn't mean your average fetus-hugger, gun-nut, snake handler or holy roller would suddenly get enlightenment like the Buddha beneath the baobab tree or Saul/Paul on the road to Tarsus and turn the United States into a social-democratic paradise, they won't. If those assholes ever got in charge we'd have some kind of nightmarish "free market" theocratic, authoritarian regime similar to Afghanistan under the Taliban.

That's why the country's upper one percent and their coordinator/managerial class lap dogs do this balancing act, too keep the gun-totting unwashed yahoos of the right wing street on a very short leash. Obama's naive reaching across the aisle to placate Congressional Republicans is part of this balancing act.

As long as the perceived outrage of poor rural and urban whites, who are the backbone of reaction, is misdirected toward anything and everything away from the moneyed upper one percent and their coordinator class lap dogs the status quo in this country will, however precariously, be maintained.

That's what Obama wants. That's what Congressional Democrats and Republicans want. That's what Wall Street wants. And that's what the nation's wealthiest one percent want.

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ba
Posted by: mnstra on Jun 15, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A very thought provoking article. Some of the things i hear on the Neal Bortz show are tantamount to terrorism and provocation to violence an should lead to an arrest at least.......Not going to happen.
You must look at the sponsor of those programs.
One in particular was Dodge trucks, another is Trane Air conditioning to name a few.What kind of companies promote that kind of violent talk show are they?
So if you buy a Trane AC installed by the local company in Atlanta that sponsors Bortz, every time you turn on your thermostat, you encourage violence!!!!!!!!!Every time you use a sponsors product you are complicit it the vitriolic.

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What was the political persuasion of the Viginia Tech Killer?
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Jun 15, 2009 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I remember correctly he was a progressive whom hated the "Rich Kids" who had silver spoon opportunity and came from old money. So he murdered as many as he possibly could.

My point is that Cho was obviously a mentally disturbed person who saw these murders as an answer to his sick and twisted dilemma.

Obviously Tillers Killer and this Nut job at the holocaust museum were as mentally unstable as Cho.


Its unfortunate that we get so caught up in trying to label these people and use the victims deaths to forward our own agendas, That we overlook the fact that there are mentally ill people that need help and victims that need respect, (Not Exploitation).

I wager that we all work, shop, and communicate with people every day whom we disagree with 100% on many key issues. However we don't murder them for thier differing views and they don't murder us.

There is no ideological war on our horizon.

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» Maybe no PERCEIVED ideological war Posted by: grindermonkey
» Useful comparison Posted by: westomoon
» RE: Useful comparison Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
EMOTION NOT LOGIC
Posted by: sowles on Jun 15, 2009 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The writer seems to have her facts mixed up. Over 99% of the "killings" in this country are done by the criminal element. Politics has nothing to do with it. There is no "vast right wing conspiracy" as HC and her ilk would have you believe. These so-called 'right wingers' are too busy working for a living; paying their mortgages and raising thier families to be bothered with such tripe. All his hoo-hoo makes for good TV and rag material. Get a job, get a life and get over it!

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» "Criminal element"? LOL! Posted by: westomoon
» RE: MOTION NOT LOGIC Posted by: MT512
» Well Said! Posted by: CaliJim
» RE: MOTION NOT LOGIC Posted by: kogwonton
» That vast conspiracy? Posted by: westomoon
The Illuminati/NWO/globalists have taken over the world gradually, incrementally...
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 15, 2009 9:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
over the past few centuries.

I don't think Ron Paul and other good people can undo all the entrenched treachery in merely a few years. If Dr. Paul moves too quickly, all sorts of anarchy & chaos could break out, financial markets could implode, we could have an extremely severe depression, starvation, etc., etc.

I think slow & careful is the best policy in overthrowing the Illuminati/NWO/globalists, and I believe that's what Dr. Paul is doing!

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The mask slips...your comment damn you!
Posted by: crisp on Jun 15, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hate by the Marxist posters tells all.

The mask has slipped. Real Americans will not be fooled, nor will we stand for a Red tide and all the blood that comes with it. Socialist revolutions have spilled more blood and killed more people than any other cause at any other time in history. Period, proven fact.

Americans will not stand for this murder of our country by the communist killers. Want to thug it up in the hood? Bring it. We will raise the standard of counter revolution...The Stars and Stripes and clean house. Our house, not yours. You gave up your right to call yourself Americans when you decided to tear up the Constitution and force your Marxist ideals on your fellow citizen.

See you in the streets.

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» Free manna and Kool Aide all around Posted by: grindermonkey
» Hey, crisp... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: The Cold War never ended... Posted by: kogwonton
» RE: The Cold War never ended... Posted by: kogwonton
» Read the Constitution, wouldja? Posted by: westomoon
Bring it on !!!!
Posted by: Hiroak on Jun 15, 2009 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know many right wing dipshits who provide a good front for being Republican but there are actually only two reasons:

1. You are besotted of Jesus and dumb hence the reason the South has become the new base for the R's

2. All you care about is mammon and this country is a haven for selfish, self centered people who don't care where they live as long as they can manipulate the government into moving money upwards. They also don't care about their fellow citizens hence the focus on killing single payer health care, all a good Repuke cares about is himself and his money, curious they have usurped the Jesus fools as their God is supposed to be the God of mercy, charity, and selflessness, it would be funny if it weren't so sad.

These people are punks and it would be a short war and give us a chance to offer them Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana (except for the free city of New Orleans)and Oklahoma as a haven and get them the fuck out of our faces.

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» BYOBB Posted by: crisp
» We Don't Do That; You Guys Do Posted by: iolanthe
Show me
Posted by: willymack on Jun 15, 2009 10:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone who'll kill at the urging of some hateful blabbermouth, and I'll show you someone with a screw or two loose.

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» Behold Fox News Posted by: grindermonkey
Suppress the right
Posted by: Jill 2 on Jun 15, 2009 11:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sara Robinson queries "If the right wants a civil war?"

We all know that if an indigenous home grown 'real' left –with a liberatory anti-fascist programmatic– agenda was as deeply entrenched as the psychopathic right wing in America today, it would be ruthlessly eliminated by police and military action, without batting an eye. If left wing hit squads were busy assassinating scabrous ilk like Dick Cheney, John Yoo, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage or even the repellent Joe Lieberman (all to great applause!) Obama would come down on them with extreme prejudice.

The manufacture, distribution and possession of lethal weaponry in America, (as so many other things, (i.e) socialized medicine), should not be subject to debate. The present situation is beyond the pale and unconscionable, but is at fundament ,what makes America what it IS and what it has ALWAYS been. Rampaging right wing lethality on the domestic front, is but an extension of a militarist Pentagon/CIA Predator drone terror in foreign policy: They are conjoined, at the hip. You can't end one fascist excrescence, without ending the other and vice versa.

When America operates from an essentialist, more or less permanent bias favoring fascism, it is not going to auto suppress itself. The right SHOULD be suppressed, but that would be ending America as we know it. America does need a civil war, but against the right. But as we know, what would remain, would be just another variant of what was suppressed. Obama's continuation of Bush torture and state terror policies, albeit sugared with rhetorical finesse, is but one example of the American demiurge:It remains almost neurologically
hard wired into a rightist, fascist psychology

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uncivil war
Posted by: maxsmart on Jun 15, 2009 12:19 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War is uncivil...but as a society gets stressed you never know what wars might reappear. The North vs the South, the Mexican American War, the Spanish American war, the Vietnam war, class warfare, prohibition...US vs Canada...War is a dualistic paradigm and a yes or no answer and a dominance and submission and a search for an unconditional surrender...it doesn't recognize an interdependent world...it is a fantasy because each war creates conditions for the next one to follow in it's footsteps...

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joe citizen
Posted by: jwc1480 on Jun 15, 2009 12:42 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And if they are, what can YOU do about it? YOU and your ilk have disarmed yourselves, you fools.

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» RE: joe citizen Posted by: CaliJim
» Thanks for that calijim Posted by: grindermonkey
Call a spade a spade.
Posted by: westomoon on Jun 15, 2009 1:02 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is terrorism. At best, these people are "insurgents", that synonym for "bad guy" we have become so comfortable with. What we are seeing is not civil war, it is terrorism.

We have paid so heavily, in lost liberties and loony inconveniences, for the existence of the "laws that keep us safe", like the so-called "Patriot" act and its progeny, it seems a shame to waste them now that we have violent terrorists on the streets of America.

We finally have an occasion where Americans are dead through ideological violence. There is clearly violent terrorism at work; the perpetrators are calling for greater violence from their jail cells; and there is open incitement to more violence from commercial, political, and religious pulpits.

It is maddening that our elected government -- the first in 8 years -- is so skittish about calling these people by their proper name. Fearful of unleashing the full power of these crazy laws? That's my guess. But the best way to get the crazy laws a sane reconsideration, IMHO, would be to use them on the folks who so enthusiastically wrote them, and who are now becoming the forces they were supposed to protect us against.

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» No, I do not forget. Posted by: westomoon
» What a strange minstrel Posted by: westomoon
» Oh. So what about the rope thing? Posted by: grindermonkey
» Nah. Research has shown... Posted by: westomoon
I DON'T THINK THEY WANT A WAR
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 15, 2009 3:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because they are cowards. But they do want control. They sytematically kill individuals who represent what they disapprove of. Most recently, Dr. Tiller. I saw a physician interviewed who know him. He also performs abortions. He said he considered the murder of Dr. Tiller to be a victory for them. Roe Vs. Wade will not be overturned, but if enough providers are killed, no one will perform abortions, even thought it's legal. He made many points worth thinking about. While we may have the laws and the courts on our side, they'll just send some old geezer out to do the dirty work. Now he's too sick to stand trial. But the clinic is closed. Their strategy seems to be seemingly isolated murders that send their message loud and clear. It's not possible to put an entire group of people on trial for one murder. So they send one lamb to the slaughter for the cause and he becomes a hero. ANNA

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» RE: I DON'T THINK THEY WANT A WAR Posted by: timenotonmyside
Why do so many progressive commentators
Posted by: kishoripapa on Jun 15, 2009 3:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
try to give tips to repugs on how to re-engage with the american people?? To hell with conservatives - the American people have spoken and progressivism is ascendant. I for one don't want "conservatives" back at the table in any shape or form. Let them become a lunatic fringe that further alienates the public, then maybe they will become extinct.

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Hold the funder$ of hate-mongering & hate acts responsible
Posted by: noratoo on Jun 15, 2009 3:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author's article is great, but doesn't go far enough.

If a group that has hate-based criminal goals, surely those who fund that group and its criminal activities should be held culpable when that group's goals are REACHED! The funders of hatecrimes are no different than the person who hires a thug to do some crime, like kidnap or murder. I see no difference. The funders share in the responsibility for what transpires!

The source of the funding for hate-criminals needs to be dried up permanently. Get tough on both the criminals and those who fund (hire) them!

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Every day that Nazi radio and tv are on is a day closer
Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Jun 15, 2009 5:09 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to the American version of "Crystal Night".

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» Exactly. Posted by: Dillinger77
what a raving lunatic
Posted by: scott@alter on Jun 15, 2009 6:01 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sara,

You need professional help.

Scott
Phx, AZ

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» For telling the truth?? Posted by: iolanthe
» What a raving lunatic Posted by: tonkawabill
» RE: what a raving lunatic Posted by: trusetufree
War is Not the Answer
Posted by: radical53 on Jun 15, 2009 6:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right wing is self-destructive by nature. If they can't have it their way, they have no problem with wars.

Progressive, positive people need to rise well above the provocations. Rightly or wrongly, we think there is still a chance to make things better without turning back the clock several centuries.

Challenging the Right to a war is self-defeating. It is all too obvious how a civil war could be started so let's not encourage these lunatics.

The big mistake was allowing the lunatic fringe to have a taste of power. They should have been kept on the margins where they belong. Putting the genie back in the bottle won't be easy. It will take patience and positive progress toward solving real problems.

It's our turn now. Let's not squander the opportunity.

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» RE: War is Not the Answer Posted by: CaliJim
There are decent law-abiding people with mental illness.
Posted by: TimV on Jun 15, 2009 7:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this ignorant, hateful talk about
"lunatics", "nut-jobs" and "crazies" can't erase this fact.

A lot of people here better check themselves in the mirror before they label other people as haters. (Though a lot of the right-wingers that they so label are indeed hateful.)

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Sara Robinson
Posted by: tonkawabill on Jun 15, 2009 10:01 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading her garbage, I realized she would have made a wonderful understudy to Joseph Gerbils, Hitler's propaganda minister.

This woman relates the RIGHT as being responsible for a few deaths??

More like the CENTER, is wanting/needing to defend themselves from characters like Sara, Pelosi and Reed. Obama needs to be removed as well. President my butt...

Thanks to the LEFT and current Republicans, the US has become a cesspool that needs flushing.

Bill Brown RN
Cordova, Alaska

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» JOSEPH *GERBILS*????? Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Sara Robinson Posted by: Quannah
» RE: RN...? Posted by: CaliJim
» Not sure about any "Gerbils" Posted by: Dillinger77
Does the Right Want a (Second) Civil War?
Posted by: yesman on Jun 15, 2009 10:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes. Obviously they do. They want to translate their "culture war" into actual bloodshed and are already engaged in doing so. There's no need to ask these silly questions. They've already answered with their actions.

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the "right-wing" answer to Sara
Posted by: scott@alter on Jun 16, 2009 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See this link for a masterfull answer to Sara's tirade.

www sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot com/2009/06/of-civil-wars-apaches-and-social.html (you'll have to put the .s in)

I defer to his response to Sara's frothing at the mouth incoherence.

Scott W
Phx, AZ

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» ?????? n/m Posted by: Paul_C
If it's a shooting war you want, do not doubt that there are plenty of progressives who will oblige
Posted by: Dillinger77 on Jun 16, 2009 8:06 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Swing and a miss there, cupcake.

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You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
Posted by: Dillinger77 on Jun 16, 2009 8:18 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is that most of America is sick of LIEberalism.

The truth is that most of America just wants to be left the hell alone.

The truth is that no one trusts Obama, because he's done nothing to earn said trust.

The TRUTH is that we will be in economic disaster in a matter of months, and "civil war" will occur at the point the government can no longer ensure adequate food and other necessities.

Time to flush the turd that is LIEberalism and wipe, wipe, wipe!

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Funniest Piece Yet from the Left
Posted by: BambiB on Jun 16, 2009 10:02 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If it's a shooting war you want, do not doubt that there are plenty of progressives who will oblige you."

Har-Har-Har. My bet is that the looney left is outgunned 50-1, and the lefties who DO have guns are probably like anti-gun activist Carl Rowan, who decried the private ownership of firearms, but used his to shoot a teenager who had the misfortune of choosing Rowan's pool for a midnight skinny-dipping session.

That a few killings a month has you so panicked is a good sign. Some leftists are finally figuring out they've gone too far.

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» RE: Funniest Piece Yet from the Left Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Funniest Piece Yet from the Left Posted by: Captain Moroni
The Right only wants to secede why don't the Left prevent a war and just let them go.
Posted by: peace4usa on Jun 17, 2009 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-

The Right only wants to secede why don't the Left prevent a war and just let them go.

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CIVIL WAR IS ABOUT TO OCCUR
Posted by: Captain Moroni on Jun 18, 2009 2:23 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To think that persons who beleive that we who fight for the liberties guaranteed in tha Constitution are dangerous tells you much about the lack of education of so many people who don't seem to realize just how PROGESSIVE the Constitution is. It is by far the most progressive political document ever written in the history of mankind.

Every dictatorship the world has ever had (and most of history shows liberty a rare thing), the dictatorship was able to do this because the citizens weren't armed. We have our free Republic today because the colonists in the Revolution were ALL armed.

Yes, there will be a civil war as soon an Obama's long form original birth certificate is made public and shows him to have been born in KENYA. The civil war, however, will not be started by Constitutionalists but by race wars and progressives who fail to see what we're losing here in the land of the free.

BTW, Occidental College where Obama received his undergraduate degree shows him to a citizen of Indonesia. His scholarship was a foreign student one.

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» RE: CIVIL WAR IS ABOUT TO OCCUR Posted by: TheNamelessCity
FASCISM OF THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT
Posted by: Captain Moroni on Jun 19, 2009 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see that many here appear to have no idea of the differences among Communism, Socialism and Fascism. Both Socialism and Communism are the goals of Progressives while Fascism is the goal of both Obama and Bush, just in different ways.

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IS RON PAUL A RIGHT WING NUT?
Posted by: Captain Moroni on Jun 19, 2009 3:50 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America is about liberty, not Fascism by the right or the left. Yes, Bush was a Fascist of the right wing and Obama is a Fascist of the Left Wing.

Ron Paul is a true "conservative" as he promotes liberty and small government as set forth in the Constitution.

I PLEAD WITH EVERYONE TO STOP CALLING NAMES AND MAKING AD HOMINUM ATTACKS. IF YOU CONTINUE TO DO THIS, THE PTB FASCISTS WILL BE HAPPY BECAUSE THEIR DIVIDE AND CONQUER STRATGEY IS WORKING. LET'S FOCUS ON WGERE WE AGREE AND GO FROM THERE. OK?

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Does the right want a civil war?
Posted by: Carl Drega on Jun 19, 2009 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not that I am a representative of the "right wing"..... this is one of the most nonsensical and outrageously stupid articles I have ever read. As if there is one unified "right wing" presumably "conservative" republican supporting movement, goose stepping towards a common goal.
A misinformed and delusional elderly fringe lunatic commits a horrible act and all of a sudden, not only did the vast right wing put him up to it and therefore, the Orwellian Department of fatherland security's report is now completely vindicated. The hysterical author of this piece if not an outright propagandist, has been duped into jumping on the band wagon against the boogieman du jour, as so many did during the Bush regime. Notwithstanding the horrible crime of the sick, evil old anti-semitic bastard and others of the like, which should be condemned, they are actually extremely rare. Moreover they are a part of a wider phenomena indicative of the burgeoning economic chaos. In the example of the elderly Nazi, it is a dysfunctional, violent reaction to it by a delusional, misinformed fringe malcontent, but there is an increase in violent crime which is much more diverse in nature than can be described as just a phenomenon of (white) right wing, hate driven crime motivated by the fact that we have a (half)black president. The comical component of this piece is the challenge to the "right wing" to essentially piss or get of the pot and if their intentions are a fight, that many "progressives" i.e. socialists will oblige them. Seriously now.... As if. By and large, progressives (who have presumably progressed so far in their cultural intellectual and moral superiority, therefore) are so progressive, so trusting of government institutions, they by and large HAVE NO GUNS, much less believe in them, are somehow willing and capable of putting up more than a smug protest to the vast "right wing" peril.... In reality, the sum total 37 "progressives" in America who actually are armed, will get their asses kicked. Hence the reason so-called "progressives" support the victim disarmament/gun control policies of the most infamous totalitarians from the 20th century. But I digress. The author, like too many Americans seems to still be trapped inside the binary republic vs. democrat, liberal vs. conservative, right vs. left paradigm.....( and lumps the so-called "right" hardly a cohesive unit into one presumably dangerous, maladjusted group.) This paradigm is flawed and distracts us from the real issues, real solutions and real choice. Our problems are not the fault of the "liberals" or the "conservatives", they are the fault of terminally corrupt political establishment. There is not a nickels worth of difference between the democrats and republicans as they benefit pet special interests at the expense of everybody else. They are in collusion and perpetrate an astonishing level of continuity in policy despite the "hope" & "change we can believe in" from Obama as the most recent example. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss; albeit Obama can complete full sentences and does not come off as an idiot savant as did his predecessor.

If our government followed the constitution, politics wouldn't matter because the sacred rights of the people would be protected and the power of government to lord arbitrary authority would be limited. Personally, I believe that our government is completely out of control, and the dissent, dissatisfaction and in some cases, dysfunctional/violent outrage are boiling over. Violent crimes need to be punished, but we need to be very careful about assigning blame for our very complex problems. The government, which is increasingly concerned about its sustainability, continuity etc is trying to stir things up and neutralize who they see as threats. Apparently the author of this article is a willing participant in this activity.

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The Right wants more money and the World War Three
Posted by: myersqi on Jun 23, 2009 2:10 PM   
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The right has the most money of the world already. Now they want to rape 100% money of the world, so they need the world war three and become the kind of the world. They hate President Obama doesn't think the same way as they do, so they try their best to kick out of president Obama and go to the world war three. President Obama needs to control all troops well and prevent the civil war.

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