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Incredible New Poll: 90% Want Bush Crimes Investigation

Posted by Beau Friedlander, Air America Media at 12:10 PM on February 23, 2009.


Sign a petition to show Obama that an investigation of possible crimes committed by the Bush administration is the will of the nation.
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Air America conducted a poll that asked a question raised by Time Magazine's Joe Klein: "Should Obama pardon George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney?" The idea: a pardon would brand them for crimes without the agony of a trial.

Air American's aren't buying the Klein solution. They want the whole lot thrown in jail. No trial necessary! A whopping 90% of our 9000 respondents want to see Bush and Company pay for their crimes with either hard time in the pokey or hard time in the pokey after enhanced interrogation techniques. (Shocking!)

In an interview last year with Philadelphia Daily News reporter Will Bunch, Barack Obama said something that seemed to signal the presidential hopeful might prosecute George W. Bush and his staff for crimes committed during the eight-year death march also known as the 43rd presidency of the United States of America.
It was one of the many moments that whipped up my own private Obama fervor. But did he say what I thought he said? Not really.

"I would want to find out directly from my attorney general--having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now--are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies."

That's as strong as it got. There was never any statement of positive intent regarding the prosecution of George W. Bush. Obama never ventured beyond the milquetoast, "We'll look into it." This is the equivalent of a disappointed soon-to-be ex-lover eliciting a "maybe" from a wholly disinterested wished for-former one. It's meaningless.

Last go around we had Bushisms, those zany journeys into the what-the-f-isms of linguistic barbarism. This time around we learn another language lesson among many to come in what seems to be an emerging mode of communication in the Obama camp. Call it Obama-speak. The defining characteristic is an NPR-like far-sightedness, and long form intelligence. Our president has the uncanny ability to perform advanced political calculus on the fly and express the results of those many wondrous equations in simple, if somewhat involved, communications.

A year ago people in the know saw a financial bump in the road. The mortgage crisis was apparent. And while no one in the mainstream media foresaw the immensity of the economic collapse that began last fall (lots of fringers make claims of clairvoyance), a clear-headed leader (yes, Obama) could at least see the clouds on the horizon and so we had the pleasure of listening to a man (Obama) who seemed to understand that over-promising anything at this juncture in history was ill-advised. It's one of the many reason's Obama prevailed in November. He had an appreciation of the profundity of our last error-prone (and possibly malfeasant) president, an idea of the mess that the Bush administration would be leaving behind, and a responsible vision for cleaning that very messy house.

So what do we get? We don't know yet, because unlike George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, our president doesn't moonlight as over-promiser in chief. Whether or not caution of the variety being exercised in Obama's White House will win the day is an open question, and will remain so for quite some time. It's a boon of the tortoise approach--we have to wait. A boon to Obama. That is one of the advantages of Obama-speak. It slows things down to a sane pace.

The issue we need to face now, more than anything else, is the economy. Can an investigation and a trial of Bush and his cronies help the economy? Perhaps in a small way. It would generate a few expert-class jobs inside the Beltway. Media companies would benefit because everyone would want to know the latest news. What else?

It's hard to say how to place a value on the national conscience, but that is the issue here. What's at stake is finally our democracy. We need to investigate the Bush years for possible crimes because too many of us fear the worst from an administration that never gained our trust. The divide between bad policy or criminal acts dressed up like official declarations and government contracts is clear. The air is not.

Joe Klein's question is valid, and clever to boot. There is enough to go on to green-light an investigation. Only criminals get hurt. We create a few taxable dollars by way of new jobs, and we set a whole array of fears to rest. (A recent USA Today/Gallup poll said more than 60% polled wanted their consciences eased regarding Bush-era crimes.) Indeed just looking at the Iraq quagmire with all its sweetheart contractors lining up at the Bush gravy train would make one wonder how there could be any hesitation. Pull a thread and the veil falls apart. It was always a see-through veil, etc...

Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont has a petition to show Obama that an investigation of possible crimes committed by the Bush administration is the will of the nation. You can sign it here.

Let us know what you think.

Digg!

Tagged as: bush, cheney, obama, air america, rumsfeld, poll, crimes


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It's like Fox News
Posted by: 2thepoint on Feb 23, 2009 12:46 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
asking the question, "How bad to you think Obama is doing and 90% saying pretty bad.

Air America is all we need to hear. Next fake poll please!

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» RE: It's like Fox News Posted by: donl51
Onlv if prosecution includes Pelosi, Reid and ALL others, not just Bush/Cheney
Posted by: DCostello2 on Feb 23, 2009 2:23 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they want to investigate and prosecute, they need to do it to everyone. If Bush and Cheney are guilty of war crimes than Pelosi, Reid, and a bunch of others are just as guilty and need to be prosecuted as well.

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» Yawn NOT Posted by: LMNOP
Onlv if prosecution includes Pelosi, Reid and ALL others, not just Bush/Cheney
Posted by: DCostello2 on Feb 23, 2009 2:23 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they want to investigate and prosecute, they need to do it to everyone. If Bush and Cheney are guilty of war crimes than Pelosi, Reid, and a bunch of others are just as guilty and need to be prosecuted as well.

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Let us know what you think...
Posted by: bimasta on Feb 24, 2009 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this may be the most poorly reasoned article ever published on Alternet. And that's quite an achievement. The author proposes prosecutions, with "no trial necessary!" So where's the prosecution, if there's no trial? And he proposes "harsh interrogation techniques": i.e., torture. His proposal is simple: "hard time" in prison, without a trial, but with torture.

Beau Friedlander should form the Taliban Party of America. Why not just behead them?

He goes on to say, ridiculously, that this will "create jobs" for lawyers and torturers, and thus help the economy. Does this absurd notion need further comment?

To critique the whole article, riven with inconsistencies and internal contradictions, is a waste of time.

Beau Friedlander should himself be subjected to extreme torture: he must be forced to take a course in Logic.

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» RE: Let us know what you think... Posted by: peacefullaim1
Waste of time, unless we re-investigate 9/11. And Alternet isn't interested.
Posted by: pfgetty on Feb 24, 2009 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a waste of time yapping about trying to make Bush/Cheyney pay for crimes. Why? Because in most arguments about the things they did, if you really believe the official 9/11 story, then most of what they did actually seems justified. I think if you bring out the horror of that day and the shock all Americans were under, it seems reasonable to go after the perpetrators in many ways that were seen as unAmerican before 9/11.

Face it..........we'd lose the case when they bring out the horrible threat of 9/11 and the terrorist threat we were under.

UNLESS you bring to light the preponderance of evidence that shows the official story of 9/11 to be bullshit. And it would be very easy. The work has already been done by great patriots like David Ray Griffin and Steven Jones and Richard Gage and Kevin Ryan. But Alternet doesn't want to bring out this information. It is part of the conspiracy to keep the truth from the American people. Why? We don't know. Threats and pressures I guess. But Alternet and the rest of our media has determined that it is in their self interest to ensure America remains in the dark about 9/11. And in so doing, it has determined that not only will Bush/Cheyney not ever be brought to justice, but their crimes will continue under Obama ....... wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, torture, rendition, grabbing innocent people from countries far away and incarcerating them for years without evidence, wiretapping, the Patriot Act, etc etc.

In over seven years Alternet has never really brought us one story about the massive evidence of lies, contradictions, improbabilities, impossibilities about the official 9/11 story that told us 19 men from the Middle East brought us 9/11. 9/11 was an inside job, and was covered up. Those are facts. Alternet doesn't want us to know. And as long as Alternet is part of the conspiracy, we probably are doomed to a future based on hideous lies, and that cannot be a bright future.

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» RE: Consider this... Posted by: peacefullaim1
Abide by our laws
Posted by: Redhead5050 on Feb 24, 2009 3:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, we need to start this investigation with the events of 9-11. That commission was hog tied and information was hidden from them and the public. Moving forward...to cover the abuses of law and illegal activities of the Bush regime is the only way we are going to find the truth and prosecute all involved.

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crimes of treason
Posted by: jstuv on Feb 24, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should the crimes, by the Bush/Chaney Administration, be overlooked, then these crimes of high treason will be repeated in future administrations. The Allies conducted the Nürenberg Trials (in 1945 to 1949) for several reasons:

A) To make aware that these crimes were actually committed,

B) To examine HOW these crimes were able to be committed,

C) Who committed these crimes and

D) To punish the criminals.

Should the guilty not be punished, then, their Criminal Acts would be absolved and could easily be repeated. There would not be any justice.

“The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”

Should the Bush/Chaney Administration (alleged) criminals not be prosecuted, not be brought to trial and not found guilty, then, like the Ronald Reagan Republican group, they will be glorified, deified and praised.

With ALL the evidence available: Eyewitnesses, Documents, Dead Bodies, Remnants of Death Camps, Newsreel clips, piles of clothes, piles of shoes, piles of hair, piles of eyeglasses, piles of gold teeth –COLD HARD EVIDENCE-, there are Holocaust Deniers being celebrated, glorified and believed.

So, too, these (alleged) criminals will be praised and glorified for future generations.
We will have not have learned from history –and the American society will repeat this debacle.

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» RE: crimes of treason Posted by: peacefullaim1
Bush and Cheney for more terms
Posted by: saadasim on Feb 24, 2009 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
10-20 in Leavenworth or Gitmo would be fine by me.

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» RE: Bush and Cheney for more terms Posted by: peacefullaim1
law and order
Posted by: dbaker on Feb 24, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
these folks invested in privatized prisons

let em try them out

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"Looking ahead"
Posted by: motamanx6 on Feb 24, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Looking ahead" and not backward is Obama's facile way of saying he isn't very interested in persuing indictments on the criminal cabal that was our former administration.

In saying this, Obama is dead wrong. Nothing will be gained by sweeping the treasonous acts under the rug and everything will be lost. Looking ahead IS important, and it entails prosecuting the alleged guilty members of the Bush gang. Someone mentioned that Pelosi and Reid should be in the dock also. I concur.

A true 9/11 investigation will probably be the most painful this country has ever faced--but it must be done. The Plame business, and the wiretapping and the cherry picked Iraq information is just the tip of the iceberg.

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» RE: "Looking ahead" Posted by: WeimMom
» RE: "Looking ahead" Posted by: winchelenator
» RE: "Looking ahead" Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: "Looking ahead" Posted by: peacefullaim1
uncle donald goes swimming
Posted by: remo on Feb 24, 2009 11:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
911 was an inside job.
Until 'the system' can deal with that, until 'justice' can find its way to deal with THAT....it deals with NOTHING.It is flapping. It is an empty thing over-run by criminal cartels who have understood and utilized methods of law, the control of evidence streams, FEAR and the psychology of establishing FACT. 'They' have also changed the laws of physics. Until that black network can be unraveled, until our heads can comprehend the enormity of inversion undergone that fateful day, we are fish in the barrel of limited imaginings and grotesque acceptance.

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» RE: uncle donald goes swimming Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: uncle donald goes swimming Posted by: peacefullaim1
When did they know it?
Posted by: folkie on Feb 24, 2009 11:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before Bush admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Democrats could have been excused on the grounds that they were in shock, believed the lies, were spineless, etc.

Once Bush admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, any Democratic who voted to fund that war became complicit in war crimes.

If you give money to someone without knowing that they're going to use it to buy a gun with which to kill innocent people, you aren't guilty of that crime. But if you give money to someone KNOWING that they will use it to buy a gun with which to kill innocent people, you are not just complicit, but equally guilty in the eyes of the law.

It doesn't matter if it is one gun, or millions of guns and bombs. You become guilty of a crime when you know that it is a crime and you pay for it anyway.

As for Afghanistan, the Bush administration sent the Taliban over $40 million dollars just a few months before 9/11, when they were known to be harboring Osama bin Laden, who was on our terrorist list. I don't know if the Democrats were complicit in that one, but it certainly makes Bush and Cheney guilty of funding known terrorists. Of course for those who remember Iran-Contra, or before that WWII, that sort of thing seems to run in the Bush family.

President Obama cannot stop supporting the war in Afghanistan because we're building an oil pipeline there. He took the lead in pushing through the bailout before the election when 90% of Americans were opposed to it, so he isn't likely to let himself be influenced by any potential loss of votes or by public opinion even if, once again, 90% of Americans opposed his agenda, or even 95%. He solicits input from citizens, but his agenda, perhaps coincidentally, favors his biggest campaign donors like the military-industrial complex and the banks.

The wealthy elites constitute no more than 5% of this country, and as long as he has their support, the President's (any President's) agenda is likely to favor the 5% above the 95%. Step out of line and you're a dead President. People petition. The wealthy just take out a contract and order a hit.

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A truth commission is not a criminal investigation...far from it.
Posted by: garella on Feb 24, 2009 11:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before you sign Senator Leahy's petition, take a close look. He proposes, in vague terms, "a truth and reconciliation commission, to investigate the Bush-Cheney Administration's constitutional abuses so we make sure they never happen again."

Missing from his language is any mention of the possibility of prosecution.

This approach may be appropriate in countries that are emerging from civil conflict, delicately trying to rebuild a peaceful society and desperate to avoid renewed war.

But it's not appropriate in a country with well-developed legal structures and an operational judiciary, where all the tools exist to conduct criminal investigations, to indict those with substantial evidence of criminal activity against them, and to put them in the dock to face their accusers.

Assuming we live in the latter kind of country, Leahy's proposal seems to be designed to put perpetrators of the most serious crimes of our time into a special category: above the law. After all, the rest of us don't get to face a truth commission if we're accused of a crime. We face a court of law, and the possibility of prison. Even death.

Or are our institutions so weak that we must compromise justice in hope of escaping civil conflict?

Senator Leahy seems to think so. If he is right, then as a senator he shares responsibility for the collapse of our civil society.

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Owning class disconnect
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 24, 2009 12:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, but for the owning class, we could actually become a nation of laws and walk like one insteada just talkin' like one.

Obama won't do it. He's owning class. They don't harm each other, they cover each other. That's how those rich assholes roll...

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BUSH AND WAR CRIMES
Posted by: pfm on Feb 24, 2009 12:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can only speak for myself and what I want is full open disclosure not only about George W Bush and Cheney but those in his administration as well as those elected representatives of the people, i.e. all members of the US Congress and Senate ...... exempt NO one .........

Paul F. Miller
striving to promote sustainable awareness

BLOG SITE NAME ... AUTHENTICALLY WIRED

BLOG SITE ADDRESS ... http://waterman99.wordpress.com/2009

... everyone has the right to clean & accessible water, adequate for the health & well being of the individual & family, and no one shall be deprived of such acess or quality of water due to individual economic circumstances ... Article # 31 - United Nations

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You look backward in a rowboat to move forward so we must...
Posted by: paulmagillsmith on Feb 25, 2009 6:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...investigate, prosecute, and incarcerate, or perhaps even execute when appropriate. This sends a message to the world there are certain things Americans just will not tolerate. Any who stand in the way are guilty of obstruction of justice.

I should point out here we must do this IMMEDIATELY because the statute of limitations expires on crimes from 2003 in 2010. Certain war crimes & crimes against humanity have no such limitations, so we might have a loophole here, or Congress could extend the statute, but with GOP obstructionists in the Senate that is wishful thinking.

The clock is ticking so we must press the issue NOW. Do I need to remind everyone the false flag attack on 911 is the root cause of all our present financial mess?

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90%! JUST THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN A DEMOCRACY.
Posted by: LMNOP on Feb 25, 2009 6:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a post of mine from a few months back"

"What remains to be seen is whether America has the guts, the stomach and the respect for law and justice sufficient to indict and prosecute those who broke the law, which of course goes all the way up to Bush and Cheney. I think that it is overwhelmingly unlikely that there will be any interest in doing anything like this from Obama, who has shown little interest in such things in the past. Personally, even though I still respect Mr. Obama and hope that I am wrong about his intentions there, I have contempt for that attitude that I would consider that a major stain on his legacy. That's doesn't preclude his ability to be a great president if he can do right by the country everywhere else, but there is no good reason not to take action and very good one for doing so.

"America did that in 1974 - just looked away - following Watergate when Nixon was pardoned instead of prosecuted. Big mistake. It was said that the nation had been through enough and needed to heal. But that's bullshit. The nation had been through enough? When is that ever an acceptable answer for anything? Private Jones in Iraq says that he's been through enough and wants to go home. Prisoner Smith has been through enough and needs to be transferred. Mrs. Johnson has three difficult children and says that she's been through enough and needs a six-month break. Too bad. If you have responsibilities, you've had enough when you've met them, not sooner. So America had had enough and had been through enough, huh? That doesn't sound like the land of the free or the home of the brave to me.

"The result is that Nixon defiled the office of the Presidency and the American people when he shat on the Constitution and America's response was . . . nothing, because they had been through enough you know, the poor dears. We didn't even fire the prick - he quit. We did nothing to him.

"That was the moment of truth, because the office of the Presidency had still been untarnished for 200+ years at that point. It was only the man - the particular President at a particular time like a few before him - that was irreversibly tarnished, not the office. To defend the honor of the office and the nation, all that was necessary was to invoke the rule of law and to demand justice, to demand that the appropriate penalty was paid by the offender, exactly as if he had raped a woman and we wished to let the world know that that behavior is unacceptable, and that that woman has value. Now, if a bull rapes a heifer, well, that doesn't require action because her honor doesn't need defending. She has no value except in terms of her milk, meat or offspring, so we don't do anything about it.

"But in the case of the rape of our sisters, or of Lady Liberty or any other woman, it is understood that it would be necessary to indict, try, convict and punish the perp if she has intrinsic worth to us and her dignity is of value.

"But we just let Nixon go because we'd "been through enough." We effectively said that America isn't valuable enough to go after her defiler, that her honor means nothing more than that of the bull-raped heifer, and that the rule of law is just words. It means that we don't really have a principle here, no burning passion to defend justice (remember her, the one with the blindfold and the scales?), that she is as precious to us as any other heifer or crack whore. Nixon raped our sister, America, and we took it because we were too fatigued. And we sent the message to future presidents that our sister is easy and that we wont defend her Frigging contemptible.

[CONT]

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90%! JUST THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN A DEMOCRACY pt II
Posted by: LMNOP on Feb 25, 2009 6:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[CONT]

"And so Bush and Cheney gang-banged her again. And again. And again. For eight years. Where Nixon only did her mouth once, Cheney and Bush tied her in the basement for eight years doing her arse, and then for fun, gouged out an eye and f*cked the empty socket. And here she lies today, bloodied and drenched in their bodily fluids. So what's America going to do about that? What are you going to do, Barack? Let me tell you what. No, better yet, ask Bush and Cheney.

"So what’s the message? If you're the president, feel free to shit all over America. Take a dump right on her face if you like. She's a party country, and she doesn't fight back. She likes it. In fact, she's asking for it. And Bush and Cheney obviously heard that message in 1974, which played out from 2001-2009. Would they have been so arrogant and so flagrantly disrespectful of America, its constitution, its government and its citizens if they thought that they would likely be prosecuted once out of power? Hell no. They're cowards. You can be sure that they have always been confident that they would and will get away with doing whatever the f*ck they wanted, because they realized that America is a pussy and doesn't have the stomach or the commitment to principles sufficient to do anything about it. Will Obama and the nation will just pretend like this NSA stuff and the rest never happened? I’d love to bet money on this.

"Either we are a courageous nation of principles, or we are just talk. Either one is acceptable because we are what we are, whatever that is. But the walk and talk need to match. Cowards like us need to STFU, because what’s not OK is upright talk and a cringing walk. If Americans are satisfied to see their country just take it in the butt and eye and not even file a report, well, that's their prerogative.

"But if so, we have the right and duty to ridicule any talk about being “a nation of laws, not men” or of their being “liberty and justice for all.” Those words are only for great nations and great people, real beacons on the hill, not wannabes that don't have the stomach (let alone the passion) for justice, who just look the other way as I think is likely this one will do. It has a reputation for that already, earned in 1974.

"But I'd love to be wrong."

Ninety percent sounds like the American people have the right stuff, which a phrase that I haven't had occasion to utter in over twenty years.

But does Mr. Obama and his AG that called me a coward last week have the balls and the integrity to do the right thing? I hope so, but I'd be surprised.

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