This touches on the fact the objection to rick Warrens invocation goe smuch deeper than merely his stance on Gay marriage and Abortion (plenty of other religions feel the same).
What makes Warren Soooo objectionable is his underlying doctrine.
First you must believe the apple of Knowledge was a bad thing. If eve had not taken the apple we would all have the mentality of dogs. No Imagination, no foresight, forethought, hindsight, no Art , No Monuments.We'd all be living in dens or caves. Honestly i like to think Eve took the apple as a sign of her willingness to have Humanity be God's Stewards of His Eden.She not only got the benefit of intellect, but the respsonsiblities too. I think a Noble act, not a sinful act.
Regardless of the Eve & apple Story, We ARE the only species on the planet who can be the Stewards, so the reason is really Irrelevant. We are By Design (or evolution) Physically and mentally superior to the rest. Why then would a God 'Design ' us this way and then expect us to ignore these special gifts. I think we are meant to use of Brains to best utlized Our unique Physique. To fail to use our Greatest gift would be a slap in the face to any creator I would guess...'I gave you a brain, use it!'
But there are far more disturbing aspects to these 'Evangelicals'. If there goal is to spread the 'Word', they would be better off doing so through their actions then thaeir mouths. Trying to 'convert 'someone is fundementally an insult to them and their way of thinking- Judgement.
Also not all Chrisitians hold the Evangelical St John's 'Revelations' in such High Regards. Not all Christians consider it something to strive for, or fantasize about. In fact this 'End of Days' theology is not purely a 'Christian' phenomena, There ahve been 'End of Dayers since the dawn of man.So hiding behind the Generaliaztion of Christianity' is actually a Travesty...Because Jesus was not One and in fact stated that 'Only the Father Knows' when the end will come.
Frankly I am surprised the other Christian Sects have not been more outraged that this Sect has held the limelight for about the last 30 yrs.And they have done nothing but create a major Riff in our UNITED States through their political manuevering and influence.
What difference does it make if a Democracy is usurped by the Catholic Church or a Evangelical Church. Such Attempts are Clearly and Strictly forbidden by our country's basic laws.
Rick Warren Does NOT Speak for Americans- socially, Politically or Spiritually.

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Wow. Who would have thunk?

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This Holy Soap Salesman is already cashing in on Obama's implied endorsement as America's Official Frothmiester -- flogging his wares on NBC's Today Show this Christmas morning.

Don't get me wrong, it's important for everyone to talk and heal, but the inauguration is not the appropriate venue for this character and only raises his profile and stature. Creationism is especially pernicious in undermining intelligent dialogue in general and good citizenship in particular. It provides much of the re-bar in the foundation of the right wing's belligerent, mindlessly obsessive war on reality in America.

I mean, Holy Macaroni! Fie on this G.D. crappola already! Get a clue Obamanistas. Warren is likable and personable -- valuable traits for a con man.

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This is maybe the third or fourth Rick Warren "expose" that I have seen on Alternet. Sure, the guy is a right wing religious zealot. His views on a whole host of issues are 180 degrees from mine and a lot of other Alternet readers. Like Joel Osteen, Rod Parsley and a few others, he is the pastor at one of those creepy mega-churches with thousands of worshippers every week. Back in the 80's Karl Rove found a way to tap into these congregations and built a Republican base stronger, more affluent and more reliable than the Democrat stalwarts: labor unions and African-Americans. One or both of them may come together for an election, like 2008, but the evangelicals come out for EVERY election.

Can an olive branch to the evangelicals be that bad? What drew us to Barack Obama in the first place? It was his story and his compelling speech at the 2004 convention. It was his consistent message of change and hope. It was his commitment to reunite "red" states and "blue" states. Let's not lose sight of that.

Barack Obama won handily on November 4th, but if you look at the electoral map, there are still a lot of "red" states out there. A Republican recently wrote in my local paper that John McCain got 46% of the vote, even in the face of all he had to run against (Bush's legacy, Obama's charisma and money, etc...). Another story on Alternet this morning states that "the religious right isn't going anywhere". Neither is the Republican Party. There were numerous stories after election day on the spike in sales of guns and ammo. The people buying them were convinced that a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress would roll back gun rights and they wanted protection. Right wing talk radio is no help. We have a lot of work to do if we are going to reunite this country and move forward.

Obama has made choices in his cabinet that, while not "progressive", are solid, consensus building, results oriented choices. Barack Obama knows that Don Quixote tilting at windmills is not going to bring the change we need. Most of the country, I believe 4 out of 5, approve of his cabinet, approve of his transition and approve of his tone as President-elect.

I trust Barack Obama and I believe him when he says that no matter who is in his cabinet, or what happens in Congress, or who give his invocation, that he will be the arbiter of change.

Let's grit our teeth, take a deep breath (or ten) and get past the invocation. It may help to allay some of the fears the right has about President Obama. I remember going to an Obama rally in Elkhart Indiana. The principal of the high school, who was also an ordained minister, gave the invocation. I did not know, or care, how he felt about gays or science but in that part of the state I could guess. He gave a lengthy prayer and I remember that he said thanks that prayer was "allowed" at such an event. Was that a general thanks or a reference to the common perception that the Democratic Party is too liberal for religion? Or that Obama may be a closeted Muslim. I do not know, but maybe then, and maybe now, we can reach out and cleanse that door of perception.

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I guess it's OK to be delusional and in a position of authority. It's even "better" if you encourage others to be delusional, too.

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I LOVE christmas carols. This morning I had the fun of sining along with them on the TV. It is fun to sing about the glory of christ's birth if you think it is the tree of life.

It puts a whole new spin on a bunch of those songs. Jesus christ is born! Time to celebrate.

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Happy Holidays!

Merry Christmas!

Happy Hanukkah!

Wonderous Winter Solstice!

Joyful Kwanza!

Boisterous Festivus!

Thanks to all of you for a very interesting year on AlterNet!!!

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This choice appears to be an abysmal failure of judgement or political opportunism to woo a certain consituency.

Since anyone who's read Obama's policy stands realizes he's not a progressive, his message of change has been one more of resuming integrity in government - and this choice brings that opportunity for change into question.

Excuse me if I am not right wing - I pray, too. I actually read the Bible. And I am offended that this man's considered representative of Christian America or of President-elect Obama's vision for the nation.

I am an Obama supporter, but I believe this is a poor and disingenuous decision.

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Such is the value of guys like Rick Warren. He lends value to atheism.

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Look dick wad, you have a few problems with your account of the creation story in the Bible.

First: If Adam named all the animals God brought to him, then that would have taken a very, very, long time, perhaps thousands of years, because there are millions of species, just on land.

Second: If God told Noah to build a boat to save his family AND "everything that has breath", then what happened to the dinosaurs? Every try to put 10 lbs. of shit in a 5lb. bag?

Tyrannosaurus Rex weighed about 8 tons and was 45' long, times two, because of the male female thing. And,the relatively new discovery of Ultrasaurus adds new problems to Warren's theory. This specie weighed about 35 to 40 tons and was about 110' long, again times two. And, don't forget about all the food and water that these animals would need for a period of 10 months. Plus what did Noah do with all the shit these animals produced. Your talking about tons a day!!! And, these are just a very few examples of what Noah had to deal with. There are literally millions of other species "that have breath", that Noah had to load into his boat.

This story is so impossible to have happened, that you have to unplug your brain to "understand" it. But, this is what Warren and his ilk try to make you believe when they try to jam their philosophy down your throat. Then they get despicable when they use "Jesus" to re-enforce their bullshit story, implying that if you don't believe the Noah story as told, then you will burn in Hell FOREVER!!! Yeah right.

Warren seems like a pleasant bastard, in spite of that stupid goatee he has. Is that a glue-on?

The problems with this Noah story are so deep, wide and profound, that it numbs the mind. You would have to be fool to try and apply this sort of physics to the real world that we all live in. The Noah story was never meant to be a literal event, but rather an allegory as with the Adam and Eve story.

So dream on, all you stupid motherfuckers who believe this ridiculous Noah story as told. But, on the other hand, you believers are in good company with the likes of Warren and his devoted followers, in that, you will believe ANYTHING. So, when these "ministers" tell you to "drink the cool aid", drink the cool aid, and reap the whirlwind, bitches.

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I'm not upset about Rick Waren giving the invocation. I'm upset that there will be an invocation.

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