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On Oppresion and White Christian Heterosexual Men (First in a Series of Nasty Posts)

Posted by Echidne, Echidne of the Snakes at 2:45 PM on November 9, 2008.


To expect that the oppressed are saintly creatures is really very insulting.

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There will be more nasty posts in this new series, which is based on the idea that I got of collecting all the things that keep irritating me like a pebble in my shoe, things which keep happening over and over without anyone correcting them much, things which are like frogs leaping out of the mouths of otherwise intelligent people (this being a reference to fairy tales).

I recently read a comment somewhere about how the oppressors are white Christian heterosexual men and how everyone else should join forces against them and that way we would win. This is terribly simplistic for several reasons:

First, we all have the ability to be oppressors, given the opportunity to be so. There was a time when the Irish attacked the shores of Britain to capture slaves for themselves. Then later the British enslaved the Irish and so on. History can tell us that the once oppressed can quickly become oppressors when the tables are turned.

This is why I find the victim-focused or the oppressor-focused approaches insufficient without a long and hard look at what makes people oppress other people in the first place. True, writing boring theory is -- boring -- but I see no way around that problem.

Second, being oppressed doesn't necessarily make a person good, kind and otherwise fascinating. Being oppressed can also make a person bitter and vindictive or most likely just down-trodden, passive and hopeless.

To expect that the oppressed are saintly creatures is really very insulting. Should women have equality ONLY if they are much, much better people than men? Yet I read a lot on the web based on the idea that all victims are very good people. Many of them are, of course, and many also learn from their own oppression to have empathy towards others who are in pain. But many are just plain nasty and still deserve not to be oppressed.

Third, and this appears a large surprise to quite a few if what I read on the net reflects reality: The different groups of the oppressed are perfectly able and often willing to have prejudices about each other. It's not exactly secret that the women of Palestine are treated as lesser creatures by the men of Palestine, for example, and it's not exactly the case that a feminist can never be a racist or homophobic and so on.

This point came up rather sharply when Proposition 8 passed in California last week, thus banning same-sex marriage, when it turned out that the decisive votes for its passing were those given by African-American voters, three quarters of whom supported it. Several blog comments threads on this topic turned out into odd debates about who it was who should really be blamed for the passing of Proposition 8, in terms of race and religion, mostly, and to me the discussions looked like an attempt to get back that thinking where all the oppressed are together and fight against not only their own oppression but that of all the other groups, too.

Which isn't exactly how the world works, sadly. For instance, study revolutions from the French Revolution onwards, and note how women participated in those revolutions and how very quickly (like in a second) the post-revolution setup pushed women back into their old oppressions or something not much different.

None of this cynicism is intended to argue that groups shouldn't build alliances or work together, because those are good ideas. What's not a good idea is naivete about what lies behind these alliances.

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Tagged as: oppression

Echidne of the Snakes is a minor Greek Goddess.


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Interesting. I thought this was going to be another politically religious...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 9, 2008 5:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...post, in search of scapegoats, devils, and excuses.

Instead, it was thoughtful affair. Never judge a post by its title? I look forward to reading more introspective commentaries from the author.

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Oppressors reluctant to see selves as oppressors often seek justifications.
Posted by: aouie01 on Nov 10, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I nearly didn't get past the first paragraph as I was merely checking to see if there was going to be even more deviation into relatively thoughtless and hateful ("nasty") articles. Luckily, I read further into the article that was relatively thoughtful and not "nasty".

I strongly agree that even the oppressed who are far from being good, deserve to not be oppressed. A lot of times people like to see the oppressors as mean oppressing people who deserve to be hated. It would be a nicer world if people can lower their expectations of others and exhibit compassion towards and understanding of the "selfish" self-centered oppressors, as being self-centered is part of the nature of the living (selfish ("excessive" self-centeredness) is a subjective term). Nothing in the previous sentence is meant to reduce the importance of working towards ending oppressions by those so motivated, able and willing.

Some times the oppressors seek superficial justifications and at other times find more elaborate justifications that tend to further push their own values and beliefs towards whatever position would justify the continued oppression. Both kinds of justifications hinder the improvement of societies. Promotion of and training on critical thinking will help us watch out for the tendencies in ourselves and others. As an example, think of the way animals are often treated in the world by otherwise compassionate, caring individuals. It is not about who is the most saintly, but hopefully more about trying to be more of all that is good (which often helps one feel pretty good (and in a possible future world, societies will be rewarding people based more on goodness than their ability to accumulate wealth (and, yes, goodness is subjective too))).

Sincerely,
Aouie

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strange thought on opression
Posted by: mevoh on Nov 10, 2008 7:09 AM   
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I have seven horses and 5 dogs and anyone who has a "group" of animals will recognize some of what this author is taking about -- but in the animal kingdom. Each animal has its place in the pecking order and each animal is not the least shy about oppressing the animal beneath it should that animal "get out of line." I guess this evolved or safety and/or order within a particular group. I am not saying that I like it but I do not interfere with it because I know I cannot permanently change it. Since I am the "top dog" with each group I can effect a change in the order but only while I am present. Now humans should not act like the animals do. I certainly have noted what the author notes and I do not like it. But I wonder if in some or all humans there is some small remnant of the behavior seen in animals. And then how do we change that? This post is really thought provoking and I look forward to more.

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Echidne of the Snakes
Posted by: redfrog on Nov 10, 2008 11:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your moniker made me laugh delightedly and your article made me think. I have added your site to the ones I want to visit at least once a week.

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