We all know all that about Mccain. Now let's see the Democrats SMASH this guy in the general election. Of course, now that the party's shown itself to be a panderbot for the past 28 years and show no signs of turning, they deserve to be PUNISHED PUNISHED PUNISHED for being cowards.

Don't believe me? Get this. My wife PUNISHED me for being a coward in my earlier days and I learned plenty of lessons about being able to stand up for oneself and not misuse the idea of negotiating for caving in to the opposition. There's a difference between negotiating and caving in.

Let's PUNISH both parties by voting RALPH NADER FOR PRESIDENT !!!!

votenader.org

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As a Flyboy, McCain didn't have to get his hands dirty. He was not a squadron leader and made no strategic plans and judgments. This was a man that graduated very close to the bottom of his class at the Academy. I'd trust a school principal to be a better leader and thinker.
Has there ever been fact-based documentation of his time as a POW? All I've seen is innuendo about selling out, and getting better treatment than the other POWs in his camp. Wes Clark could do us all a BIG favor by getting to the bottom of this and exposing McCain for the liar we can feel him to be. Military Hero, my ass!
Amoral stumblebum is more like it.

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Since when is a POW a military hero?

McCain is a coward seeking revenge on an enemy - any enemy. He has repeatedly explained that a prisoner will tell his captors under torture. Did he have anyone in particular in mind? You bet he did. How many American flyers were sold out by this coward? How many didn't live to tell the tale?

As Wesley Clark has stated, McCain's idea of settling international disputes is force, force, and more force. McCain is psychologically damaged. It would be very dangerous to put him in the White House with so much instability in the world: instability that was created in the first 2 terms of the Bush Administration.

All Obama has to do to win this election is to keep showing McCain answering a question with "Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!".

Stop backing off this guy! He is the first psychotic to be nominated by either party for President of the United States.

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There is no better judge of McCain’s behavior as a POW than the late Colonel David Hackworth, a much-decorated career Army officer who became a combat legend in Vietnam. During his 25 years in the military, which spanned the Korean and Vietnam wars, “Hack” received 78 combat awards, including the Distinguished Service Cross, Silver Star, Bronze Star and eight Purple Hearts.

Before his death in 2005 from cancer, Col. Hackworth wrote the following about McCain:

John McCain is being hailed by the press as a “genuine war hero.” But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn? Or is his “war hero” status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?

On a purely medal-count basis, he outweighs Murphy and Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy.

Yet in McCain’s own words, just four days after being captured, he admitted violating the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors “O.K. I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.”

A Vietnam vet detractor says, “He received the nation’s third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!”

The facts are that McCain signed a confession and declared himself a “black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate.” This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement.

Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs―all inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts. A former POW says, “No man witnessed another man during interrogations. We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell.”

The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses, less himself and his captors.

Our POWs in Vietnam were treated appallingly. The Viets would either break a POW or kill him. POWs provided info beyond name, rank and serial number or they didn’t come back.

Based on these stalwart men’s horrific experiences, the Code of Conduct has been changed. A POW says, “Now the training is to give them something… don’t risk permanent damage to health, mind or body.”

McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he “just followed orders.”

McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card.

----------------------------------------------

Here is Hugh Scott's take of Songbird McCain, based on my experience as a Vietnam vet, ex-USAF pilot and lifelong registered Republican:

There are numerous war veterans, including fellow POWs, who think Senator McCain crossed the line during his NVA interrogations and cooperated more than he should have. Many others believe he betrayed the families of American servicemen missing in Southeast Asia by abruptly halting the 1992 Senate MIA investigation and sealing their records. Assuming those perceptions are correct, they explain why McCain has flip-flopped this year on major issues, such as torture, Bush tax cuts and offshore drilling.

Clearly the senator’s core values are conflicted. Either that or he is not being true to himself and the American people. Whatever the case, John McCain’s obvious lack of integrity disqualifies him from becoming our next commander-in-chief.

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In an article published in June 2008 by Military.com, former POW Phillip Butler, a Navy pilot and Naval Academy graduate who spent over eight years in captivity, explained why he would not support John McCain for the presidency.

Here are some excerpts from Butler’s Internet posting:

Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President! John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every regulation in our four-inch-thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy.

I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800-man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60’s and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s age (72) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for four or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced firsthand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don’t see that John is the “straight talk express” he markets himself to be.

Butler ended his article this way:

In short, I think John Sidney McCain III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.

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One's character is often forged by the experiences they endure. McCain was confronted with a terrible experience, didn't ask for it but rose to the occasion and showed his leadership ability.

There are some uninformed people on here that take pleasure in spreading uninformed lies , similar to what was done to Kerry. That is just a continuation of the swiftboating and is the lowest aspect of party politics played by the lowest form of voter!

Regardless of McCains politics, there is no doubting his leadership ability or his sacrifices. Obama still has yet to prove that!

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On July 9, 2008, Senator McCain opened the door to public scrutiny of his “heroic” POW record during a sit-down interview with KDKA Political Editor Jon Delano.

In bragging fashion, McCain told Delano that he had recited the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive line-up to his North Vietnamese captors as aliases for the names of his Navy squadron mates.

McCain added that he recalls the football team whenever he thinks of Pittsburgh. “The Steelers really made a huge impression on me, particularly in their early years."
.
"When I was first interrogated and really had to give some information because of the physical pressures that were on me, I named the starting lineup -- defensive line -- of the Pittsburgh Steelers as my squadron-mates!"

Sounds good, but that wasn’t what McCain said in his 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers.

On page 194 of the hardcopy edition, he wrote, “Eventually, I gave them [his North Vietnamese interrogators] my ship’s name and squadron, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant. Pressed for more information, I gave the names of the Green Bay Packer’s offense line, and said they were members of my squadron.”

McCain supporters will probably claim he “misremembered” the NFL football team because he had been a POW nearly 40 years ago. But how do they explain what he wrote in an article for U.S. News & World Report, published on May 14, 1973.

In the incredibly-detailed, 12,000-word piece written by McCain when his memory was super fresh, he never mentioned using the names of NFL players during his interrogations. Songbird did admit, however, telling his captors, "OK, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

Also in the 1973 article, McCain did not describe the “military information” he divulged. Nor did he say anything about using NFL names which would have been mitigated his violation of the Code of Conduct by misleading the North Vietnamese about the real names of his squadron mates.

There is only one explanation for the 1973 omission: McCain NEVER mentioned the names of NFL players during his interrogations. That was a fantasy the senator created when he wrote his self-serving autobiography in 1999. It also explains why he later "misremembered" the Steelers. Far from being a principled patriot, McCain is a pandering politician who will say anything to win the White House.

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By his own admission in Faith of My Fathers, McCain violated the Code of Conduct for POWs by accepting special favors from the enemy -- such as hot tea, coffee and cigarettes during interviews with foreign dignitaries in posh settings.

In one case, while meeting with a Cuban psychologist, McCain voluntarily conversed in Spanish, even though he was obligated to be evasive during their conversation.

I am particularly sensitive to the issue of smoking enemy cigarettes. In 1964, while a pilot in the Strategic Air Command, I went through SAC’s infamous Combat Crew Survival School at Stead AFB near Reno, Nevada.

Part of the course involved POW training. It began with classroom instruction on how to behave after capture. For example, we were taught deceptive play-acting techniques for use during enemy interrogations, to avoid disclosing military secrets.

Later in the field, to practice the techniques during make-believe Q&A’s, we were required to say more than just name, rank and serial number.

In one exercise while being held “prisoner” in a mock Russian POW camp, I was taken to a small office for questioning, seated and left alone. Displayed on the table before me were three items: a cigarette, Zippo lighter and Styrofoam cup of hot chocolate. I knew the drill. I could drink the hot chocolate but not smoke the cig.

Accepting favors such as cigarettes while in captivity is a blatant violation of America’s Code of Conduct for prisoners of war. Food is different; a POW is obligated to eat all he can, when he can, and then share the information with fellow POWs so his rations can be divided among the other men based on the estimated calories consumed. This was especially important during WWII to fight starvation in German and Japanese internment camps. Conversely, cigarettes have no food value and are considered enemy gifts with a price tag attached―such as revealing classified information.

Section III of the Code of Conduct for American prisoners of war states, “I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.” Alone in the mock POW interrogation room, by lighting up with the Zippo, I would have been accepting a “special favor.” I also would’ve signaled weakness on my part, which is typical of persons addicted to one of the most powerful stimulants known to man: nicotine.

Even though I was a heavy smoker back then and had the craving like McCain, I avoided the temptation and grabbed the cup of hot chocolate instead.

Before I could drink the nourishing beverage, my “Russian interrogator” rushed back into the room and slapped the cup out of my hand. Later, during a critique of my POW performance, I was commended for not going for the weed.

In Faith of My Fathers, McCain admitted to smoking cigarettes provided him by his NVA captors. It’s reasonable to assume the North Vietnamese weren’t aware he was addicted to nicotine. Thus, if McCain had initially refused the tobacco favor, nothing would’ve been said or inferred.

On the other hand, when he took that first puff, his captors knew instantly McCain had a weakness that could make him more vulnerable to disclosing military secrets during interrogations, which he did.
In return for medical treatment at a civilian hospital, a privilege never granted to other injured POWs, McCain gave NVA interrogators classified military information -- such as the name of his aircraft carrier, how many Navy pilots had been lost, the number of planes in his flight formation, tactics used during bomb runs and the location of rescue ships in the Tonkin Gulf.

Because of the revelations which he repeated in propaganda radio broadcasts, the North Vietnamese contemptuously nicknamed him “Songbird.”

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Are they all great military leaders? I doubt it. And having been a POW does not qualify either. Been there , done that, happy to be a civilian.

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Of course McCain knows he/we lost in VietNam. That's why he does not want to let Democrats screw this up.

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Maybe mcloser is a war hero, maybe not. What's known for sure is that he's a clueless numbskull whose mind seems to be unraveling, a vainglorious bufoon, the "man" who called his own wife a cunt-in public yet-and a boorish ape. He's unfit for the senate, never mind the White House.

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what do you mean screw up , Iraq is a screw up, songbird will screw up the nation.

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1998:

"I know how to lead. I have been telling my fellow-Texans that I have a vision for a better tomorrow for our state. You can't lead unless you know where you want to lead. I'm a uniter, not a divider.


What shrub ment was that he would unite the Dogs of War and greed. 50% plus 1 as per greasy slime ball Carl Rove. And the way to get his pathetic nose under the tent was the US religious wackos.

That was always the plan. It didn't happen by accident.

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were Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern, and Daniel Ellsberg (among others). My first vote in a presidential race was for George McGovern- the best president the United States never had!

Referring to Senator McCain a "war criminal" might be pushing the truth too far- but he most certainly obeyed- without apparent dissent- the war criminals Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger.

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As the son and grandson of two four star US Navy Admirals, John managed to party his way through Annapolis and graduate at the bottom of his class. Then John used his family influence to become a Navy pilot and crash four fighter jets in training. Then he crashed (what missile?) a fifth single-seat fighter over North Vietnam and was captured by the NVA. Can someone please tell me where John McCrash gets to call this performance writing off five fighter jets leadership when it is hardly heroic.

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Those who consider voting for Nader are really casting their vote for McCain in the political climate that we currently exist within. Is that what you REALLY want?

Nader should have gone on the ticket with Al Gore. Then we wouldn't be in this mess!

Consider it carefully before you make your choice. The folks who voted for Nader in the last two elections helped get us W. Are you happy and better off? I'm sure not!

If you really want to make a change, work for campaign financing reform, voting and electoral college reform. It may take us a few more bogus elections for enough people to join in this effort, but we can't afford to wait.

Let's work together to end corruption. How about signing the petition to hold Karl Rove in contempt! Let's work to impeach this entire administration for war crimes and lying to the American people. Didn't they take an oath to serve the people and uphold the Constitution? Does McCain really want us to let go of the Geneva Convention protections for POW's? That door swings both ways.

Think twice about voting for Nader folks. Consider the real world we are living in and work towards changing it fast! I don't think we'll make it through another Bushtwin [McCain] term.

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