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"Friends Of Israel" Envision "Final Holocaust"; "Jew Toast"

Posted by Bruce Wilson at 8:54 AM on March 14, 2007.


Bruce Wilson: AIPAC's Christian Zionist Allies Redefine "Friendship"

[also see PEEK story AIPAC's Anti-Semite and AIPAC Speaker's Illuminati Conspiracy Video [VIDEO]]

In previous installments of an ongoing series, I've examined the beliefs of Pastor John Hagee, founder of "Christians United For Israel", an ostensibly pro-Israel lobby whose members seek to trigger a Mideast conflict they hope will spiral into a devastating world war that will cause Global mass death and the death of 2/3 of Jews in Israel. Hagee, who calls for a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran and also states that will trigger the apocalyptic war he craves, has also warned in his sermons about a conspiracy of "Illuminati" and international bankers seeking to create a "New World Order". John Hagee spoke, before many US Senators and Congress members, to a cheering crowd, at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's annual convention last Sunday evening :

That leading US politicians now happily appear at public events with, cheer on, and consent to share the stage with a man who advocates a fringe conspiracy theory some would call anti-Semitic and urges a "preemptive" use of nuclear weapons in order to cause widespread nuclear war indicates the extent to which US political and religious culture has lurched far right, towards what some call an "apocalyptic death cult", over the past four decades since the era in which Lyndon Johnson's 1964 presidential campaign devastated Barry Goldwater's presidential hopes by airing just one time a 30 second TV commercial,  the "Daisy" ad, that effectively tarred Goldwater as eager for nuclear war. Now, for Republican politicians wooing a key bloc of evangelical GOP voters, public expressions of nuclear blood lust are no longer stigmatized or politically toxic ; they are an asset.

Pastor John Hagee's warmly received AIPAC speech illustrates the extent to which political leaders who espouse ideology that in the 1960's was considered to be scandalously close the  extreme end of the political spectrum can now expect to broadcast their views from a national stage.

Once upon as time a single 30 second TV ad, run only once, effectively destroyed the presidential chances of Barry Goldwater by alleging that Goldwater itched for nuclear war. But since the 1960's Christian apocalyptic religious ideology has spread so extensively in American popular culture that now, in 2007, direct advocacy for widespread nuclear war is no longer considered beyond the pale and, indeed, American enthusiasm for nuclear destruction is sufficient to support a national lobbying group.  And, Republican politicians, but some Democratic ones as well, are willing to appear at  "apocalypse lobby" public events, to share the stage with religious activists who are no longer content to merely predict the end-times but now actively work to make an apocalyptic nuclear inferno really happen.

What's also striking is the willingness of AIPAC partisans to embrace the political support of the Christian "Apocalypse lobby" while dismissing statement from CUFI's board members and from other Christian Zionists, that the hoped for catastrophic conflict will kill most Jews in Israel and that Jews who survive will have convert to Christianity or die. American fundamentalist leaders such as John Hagee have been saying that quite loudly for decades and now, more than ever perhaps, the attainment of such bloody and ultimately anti-Semitic goals seems within the bounds of possibility but Jews who are grateful for the political support CUFI and its predecessor organizations have given Israel seem almost schizophrenic in their willingness to dismiss the underlying ideology of totalistic religious warfare that's lurking under the cuddly philosemitic face, to Christian Zionism, which John Hagee has so zealously constructed.

But, Jews might do well to consider the implications of the fact that apocalyptic thinking has penetrated the United States military, to unknown effect, or the possibility that Christian Zionist thought is popular in the White House. Claims, by Jack Van Impe and Paul Rosenberg, of having been consulted by the White House on end-times prophecy, might by self serving hype but it's worth noting that back in 1998, with the gearing up of George W. Bush's 2000 presidential campaign, that John Hagee made of gift to Bush of one of Hagee's books, "Final Dawn Over Jerusalem".

In the end, even neoconservative boosters such as Michael Ledeen who have promoted the idea of turning the entire Mideast into a "cauldron" should have pause at this ; the oldest apostasy in the Judeo-Christian and Abramic theological traditions is the human presumption to divinity and that's what in effect the CUFI lobby presumes : to influence divinely appointed fate.

Even the most hard bitten of neo-conservatives might do well to dwell on the possibility that recent theological mutations in some streams of American Christianity might have led to a situation where, quite literally, key national decision makers both in the White House, The Pentagon, and the US Armed Forces, with control over nearly godlike destructive powers, might also think of themselves as quasi-divine and hold end-times views in which Israel is reduced to smoking rubble in a future conflagration that some Christian Zionists have described as "worse than Auschwitz". In light of such statements, the bargain AIPAC has made with John Hagee and his fellow Christian Zionist raises the question ; how lucky does Israel feel ?

In a June 22, 2006 Los Angeles Times story entitled " 'End Times' Religious Groups Want Apocalypse Soon" journalist Louis Sahagun relates an interview with Bill McCartney, co-founder of the Promise Keepers, in which McCartney talked about the goals "The Road To Israel", an apocalyptic organization he has founded since the Promise Keepers movement waned :

' "Our whole purpose is to hasten the end times", he said, "The Bible says Jews will be brought to jealousy when they see Christians and Jewish believers together as one -- they'll want to be a part of that. That's going to signal Jesus' return." '

Jews and others who don't accept Jesus, he added matter-of-factly, "are toast."

A number of leaders in the Promise Keepers movement have been attributed as religious influences on President George W. Bush.  

Such views are anything but unusual within Christian Zionism : McCarney's sputtering apocalypse booster organization has since been far outsripped by the meteoric rise of Texas megachurch Pastor John Hagee's "Christians United For Israel", and CUFI's name should be taken at exact face value. CUFI supports Israel, as Christian Zionists define Israel per their religious eschatology, but they envision a different fate for Israel Jews.

CUFI board member Jerry Falwell has written of the battle of Armageddon Christian Zionists long for as a "final holocaust" while CUFI board member pastor George Morrison appears to expect merely "another holocaust":

Millions of Jews will be slaughtered at this time but a remnant will escape and God will supernaturally hide them for Himself for the last  three and a half years of the Tribulation, some feel in the rose-red city of Petra.  I don't know how, but God will keep them because the Jews and the Chosen People of God." ( CUFI Executive Board Member Jerry Falwell, in a December 2, 1984 sermon)

As recounted by Terje Langeland, reporting for the Colorado Springs Independent in 2003, one of Pastor John Hagee's CUFI board members, George Morrison, expresses his sense of how Israeli and Israeli Jews will fare in the apocalytpic scenario Hagee and others long for:

"Morrison, whose casual, folksy manner belies his apocalyptic beliefs, already sees signs that the End is approaching. The European Union, he says, might be the alliance of nations that according to prophecy will join the Arabs to wage war against Israel during the final days.

"Great wars will begin to take place" Morrison says in a matter-of-fact voice. "Those wars are going to involve nukes."

The extent of the destruction will prompt Jesus to return in order to stop it, Morrison believes. Unfortunately, he says, many Jews will be killed.

"It's another Holocaust, if you will" Morrison says. "

Christian Zionist analogies about the bloodbath they expect (and hope) will be visited on Israelis go beyond "holocaust" talk and extend to comparisons to Auschwitz.  As Gershom Gorenberg, expert on Christian Zionism and author of End Of days: Fundamentalism and The Struggle For The Temple Mount relates, "Chuck Missler, another popularizer of dispensationalism, says in a cassette lecture that Auschwitz and Dachau were "just a prelude" to the Tribulation. Missler sees no contradiction between looking forward to that horror and backing Israel; in an interview, he told me that "there is more support for the State of Israel from fundamentalist Christians in America than from ethnic Jews.""

As the Christian Zionist author and popularizer, evangelist Kay Arthur

also, according to Stan Goodenough, has used "holocaust" and "Auschwitz" comparisons:

Kay Arthur appears on the dais at all major pro-Israel events in the United States, and was recently nominated to co-chair a new women's association of the Knesset Christian Allies Caucus. She has stated publicly that what lies ahead for Israel will make Hitler's Holocaust look like "a Sunday school picnic."

In her novel, "Israel My Beloved," Arthur has the heroine standing in a massively destroyed Jerusalem, dead and dying Jews littering the ground around her as she whispers in horror, "Auschwitz was never like this."

As stated in an October 6, 2002 CBS "60 Minutes" segment entitled "Zion's Christian Solidiers", Arthur blamed God for the destruction of Jews she envisioned:

Ms. KAY ARTHUR (Precept Ministries): The Jews need conversion. They need to know that Messiah is coming. And the Bible tells us what's going to happen.

(Footage of service)

Ms. ARTHUR: You're going to have to take the Word of God and get to know God so that a fellowship...

(Footage of "Precepts For Life With Kay Arthur")

SIMON: (Voiceover) Kay Arthur heads an organization called Precept Ministries in Chattanooga, Tennessee. She brings thousands of pilgrims to the Holy Land and has an answer for every question.

This is what confuses me. Here you are, a great friend of Israel...

Ms. ARTHUR: Yes.

SIMON: ...great friend of the Jews.

Ms. ARTHUR: Yes, and they would tell you.

SIMON: But what you're saying is that some of them are going to be destroyed and some of them are going to be converted.

Ms. ARTHUR: But see, I'm not saying it; God's saying it.

Such unbabashed predictions of another "holocaust" that will be "worse than Auschwitz", far from uncommon, are industry standard in Christian Zionist literaturem, with titles  such as "The Next Holocaust & the Refuge in Edom (Prophetic Updates)" by Chuck Missler, Israel's Final Holocaust" by Jack Van Impe, and The Road To Holocaust by Hal Lindsey.

Thomas Ice, who works closely with Rev. Tim LaHaye, lays out the stock theological view inherent to most of Christian Zionist apocalyptic thought:

What one believes about the future of Israel is of utmost importance to one's understanding of the Bible. I believe, without a shadow of doubt, that Old Testament promises made to national Israel will literally be fulfilled in the future. This means the Bible teaches that God will return the Jews to their land before the tribulation begins (Isa. 11:11-12:6; Ezek. 20:33-44; 22:17-22; Zeph. 2:1-3). This has been accomplished and the stage is set as a result of the current existence of the modern state of Israel. The Bible also indicates that before Israel enters into her time of national blessing she must first pass through the fire of the tribulation (Deut. 4:30; Jer. 30:5-9; Dan. 12:1; Zeph. 1:14-18). Even though the horrors of the Holocaust under Hitler were of an unimaginable magnitude, the Bible teaches that a time of even greater trial awaits Israel during the tribulation. Anti-Semitism will reach new heights, this time global in scope, in which two-thirds of world Jewry will be killed (Zech. 13:7-9; Rev. 12). Through this time God will protect His remnant so that before His second advent "all Israel will be saved" (Rom. 11:36). In fact, the second coming will include the purpose of God's physical rescue of Israel from world persecution during Armageddon (Dan. 12:1; Zech. 12-14; Matt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21).

"Blow The Trumpet In Zion" (Richard Booker (Shippensburg, PA: Destiny Image Publishers), actually makes explicit predictions about how many million Jews worldwide will die:

( pp. 112-118 )

"    The Jews' Final Holocaust

    What is this terrible tribulation that awaits the Jews? Moses said it would take place in the "latter days". It is the last seven years of this age just prior to the coming of Messiah Jesus to earth. The Bible says this will be a time of suffering such as the world has never known.

    The Antichrist

    The tribulation period begins when Israel signs a peace treaty with the one we know as the Antichrist. The word Antichrist not only means one who is against Christ but also one who takes the place of Christ. The Antichrist will deceive the world into believing that he is the Christ who can solve the world's problems and bring peace among the nations, particularly the Middle East.

    By this time hundreds of thousands of Jews will have come to accept Jesus as their Messiah. This will come about through the preaching ministry of 144,000 Jewish evangelists whom God will call especially for the purpose of preaching the gospel during the tribulation period. These followers of Jesus will know the Antichrist is not the Messiah.

    The Great Tribulation

    The Antichrist will march his troops into Israel and for a short period of time will occupy Jerusalem. Every nation will support his retaliation against Israel for their disturbing world peace. The Antichrist will kill two-thirds of all the Jews. THIS COULD MEAN THAT UP TO TEN MILLION JEWS WILL BE KILLED [Rawson: emphasis ours]. The Antichrist will plunder the beloved city of Jerusalem, and one-half of the citizens will be forced into exile."

This is a continuation of a running series on Pastor John Hagee and his new "apocalypse lobby," CUFI. For the last installment, see links below.

Holocaust For Zion: CUFI's Christian Zionism Made Simple

What Secret "Other Matters" Did McCain Discuss With "Apocalypse Now" Hagee ?

GOP House Minority Whip Roy Blunt To Help Nuclear War Advocate

Also see these Alternet stories by Sarah Posner:

Lobbying For Armageddon

"As Bush's War Strategy Shifts to Iran, Christian Zionists Gear Up for the Apocalypse"

"Apocalyptic preacher John Hagee says McCain is 'on target'"

"Can Giuliani Be the Armageddon Candidate?"

And here are some more recommended takes:

Max Blumenthal : Israel, the US, and the Christian Right: The Menage a Trois From Hell



Bill Berkowitz : Holy Warriors Set Sights

on Iran

Esther Kaplan : Christian Zionism all juiced up

Richard Bartholomew : Armey: Bush Believes in Tribulation, but not Trying to Make it Happen

Bruce Wilson : Dick Armey Denies Bush Administration Trying To Provoke "End Times"



More on Apocalyptic Christian Zionism :

Pastor John Hagee's beliefs are closely aligned with other Apocalyptic Christian Zionists such as Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, authors of the "Left Behind" book series. Writes author and senior analyst at Political Research Associates, Chip Berlet:

When White supremacists post websites demonizing Jews and gay people, they are condemned for the hatemongers they are.

When leaders of the armed citizens militias and their allies in the Patriot Movement in the 1990s urged their followers to form anti-government underground cells and battle global cooperation and the United Nations, they were condemned as dangerous guerrillas spreading divisive conspiracy theories.

When Timothy LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins write the Left Behind series of novels containing the same type of bigotry, they sell 70 million books and are interviewed by clueless journalists who use a double standard by not confronting LaHaye and Jenkins for spreading hate and conspiracism as well as promoting religious violence as a heroic duty....

This is the demonizing theology, ideology, and action plan being taught to millions of Americans by the LaHaye and Jenkins Left Behind series. We ignore this phenomenon at our own risk.



Chip Berlet, on the underlying ideology of the "Left Behind" Books:

"Left Behind Video Reflects Bigoted Apocalyptic Violence of Original Fiction Series," (6/12/2006)

"LaHaye and Jenkins: Why is the Criticism Left Behind? "

The World According to Tim LaHaye: A Series

Part One: Hunting Down the Enemies

Part Two: Pre-Trib Perspectives

Part Three: Satanic Secular Humanism

Part Four: Secular Humanism as False Religion

Part Five: The Secular Humanist Web

Part Six: The Council for National Policy

Part Seven: Humanists Attack the Family

Part Eight: The Age Old Conspiracy

Digg!

Bruce Wilson writes for Talk To Action, a blog specializing in faith and politics.


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Conveniently Forgetting
Posted by: Russ Wellen on Mar 14, 2007 10:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Left-Behind crowd is obviously not thinking this through.

Or they're conveniently forgetting that, unless they're close to ground zero -- and what 'gelical groups are based in the heart of major cities? -- they and their families may fall prey to unimaginable suffering. You know, blindness, skin peeling off in shrouds, all a la Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Just 'cause you're saved doesn't mean a nuclear death is gonna be quick and easy for you and your unsavory ilk.

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» Agreed! Posted by: activecitizen2007
LOL!
Posted by: activecitizen2007 on Mar 14, 2007 10:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people seem to be forgetting that there is a verse in the Bible that makes it perfectly clear that only God himself can decide when the world ends. These people aren't real Christians and never were. They are just a bunch of batshit crazy nazis who've somehow learned to reconcile their bloodlust with Christian doctrine. Their theology is twisted and evil. It saddens me that our nation has about ten million people who follow death cultists like Hagee.

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Any Jewish person who thinks, in their wildest dreams, that...
Posted by: fool-on-the-hill on Mar 14, 2007 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...these nutcakes are "friends" needs to sneak into one of those mega-churches and listen to what they are REALLY saying!

Jews aligning w/ fundie-wingnuts is as foolish (at least!) as the neo-cons aligning w/ the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, totally overlooking that what made the Islamist nutcakes hate the Russians is exactly what would make them hate US even more.

Similarly, the Christianist nutcakes, who seem to be courting the Jews, in truth hate everybody except themselves! Reference the opinion that Jews who don't convert to fundie-nuttiness "are toast." (Hitler would lo-o-o-ve that remark!)

One of the most chilling (and proven by history) admonitions of the Hebrew Bible is this: "FOR THEY HAVE SOWN THE WIND, AND THEY SHALL REAP THE WHIRLWIND." Hosea 8:7

The US has been sowing the wind since WWII. We really sowed the wind in Afghanistan in the 1990s. The inevitable harvest began in earnest on 9/11/2001. The final reaping is yet to come.

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Christian Zionist Cults
Posted by: herbal on Mar 14, 2007 2:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Bruce Wilson,

It is time that we realize that it is not enough for a few to charge cults with apostasy. Heretical Biblical interpretation needs to be confronted with the New Testament (beginning with the Sermon on the Mount Matt: chapters 5-8) and the mainline theologians. The real question is why the mainline churches either:

1) are being silent and non-confrontational and/or
2) are being shut out by the corporatist media

You are not speaking to the choir, the mainline Christians.
Your readers are not passing out their own Biblical literature on the steps of the apostatic churches. Are we to believe that the passing off of the extremist cults that have always risen and fallen with the forbearing patience of the reformation Protestant churches is going to continue to work? Not now, when the cults are now aided and abetted by the official US Administration "Faith Based" centrists? We need to recognize the novelty of the unquestioning popularity of cultists, Hagee, LeHaye, Robertson, etc. who would synergize their own anti-christian doctrine with worldly politics in a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You made a good point worth restating: "....the oldest apostasy in the Judeo-Christian and Abramic(sic) theological traditions is the human presumption to divinity and that's what in effect the CUFI lobby presumes : to influence divinely appointed fate." Let’s call this self-fullfilling prophecy, but know it is a call to murder. On the contrary, quote Acts1:6-7, “When will you restore again the kingdom of Israel and He said to them, ‘It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in his own power.” Also “as a thief in the night” (you shall never know when): 1Th 5:2, 2Peter 3:10, Rev. 3:3, Rev.16:15. Man rebuilding a temple to restore the kingdom of Israel is not Biblical.

How to confront apostacy of Neo-Christian cults? It needs to go like this:

An evangelical campaign is sorely needed to win back the souls of those followers of the anti-christian "Rapture believers" who would deny the first Commandment, 'Thou shalt not murder', and fail to follow Jesus' own sermon, "You have heard it said, 'Love thy neighbor and hate your enemy.', but I say to you, 'Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you; that you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven..." Matt. 5,43-45 Fight fire with tough love.

Like Peter Illyn, the Christian environmentalist who uses the Bible to preach man's responsibility for stewardship of God's Creation, we are able to arm ourselves with the words of the Bible; taking a positive approach.

Criticism has a chance be effective with the followers of the cultism only if it is biblically based. There is an incredible biblical tool that is very readable and that all interested people should buy, read and give to their relatives and neighborhood churches: The Myth of a Christian Nation , subtitled, How the Quest for Political Power is Destroying the Church, by Gregory Boyd, 2005, pub. Zondervan, (the Bible printers).

Look, the quotes of the cults you use in your essay above are mostly Old Testament and the quotes of the NT are spun to support the OT. This is reverse theology. In emphasizing the OT they deny the embodiment of Christ in the New Covenant, where He states that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law, (Matt.5.17)to complete or finish the story of the Old Testament. Jesus brought a new relationship of acceptance of man's fallibility, forgivable by God. When the Christian Zionists want to argue, simply quote Acts1:6-7, etc. above. Man building a temple to restore the kingdom of Israel is not remotely Biblical.

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Take it to the mainline Prtoestant and Catholic churches.
Posted by: herbal on Mar 14, 2007 2:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As Sir James Frazier, Joseph Campbell and Ruth Benedict pointed out, the mythology of a culture is deterministic of its social outcome and mental health. Western Civilization evolved to Democracy in the US on its New Testament ideas of brotherhood (and Iriquois native's catalyst). The new Hagee style cultists are perverting Christianity to gain personal power and destroy democracy. Those who claim to be followers of Jesus need to be measured accordingly with the Gospel. They must be held accountable, now. Push the mainline churches to get the lead out. Mr. Hagee's soul is damned to hell, lets work hard to save him and his followers and our own mortal selves.

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Surprising Origin of Rapture/7 Year Tribulation
Posted by: COinms on Mar 14, 2007 3:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi, first time posting here. (I also posted this same notice on another board). I am in a small protestant group (Bible Students) that have traditionally been supportive of Israel. The difference is we have never, ever lobbied or pushed the congress or military to go to war (we are pacifists). As a matter of fact, C.T. Russell (founder of the Bible Students) around 1911 had an audience of 5000 Jews come to hear him in New York to speak on Israel in Prophecy. But Russell did not try to bring the might of the U.S. to bear; rather, he encouraged them to go to Israel (as no doubt the Hebrew Scriptures teach), which at that time was in need of industry and population. Br. Russell was not a trinitarian, so was not received well by the churchmen of his day; nevertheless, he was published in hundreds of papers world wide.
Hagee and his ilk, I fear, have created a toxic mix of hyper-literal prophetic interpretation, right wing oil politics, and military action of the world's biggest superpower.

The "seven-year tribulation" theory has its roots in dispensationalism which in turn originated, not in historic Protestantism, but in the 1800's with J.N. Darby, the leader of the major segment of Plymouth Brethren, hardly representative of historic Protestantism.

Even more disconcerting is that Darby revived the counter-reformation views of a Spanish Jesuit named Ribera. A basic concept of the Reformation was that Papacy as a system was the Antichrist and that much of the book of Revelation was having its fulfillment during the history of the church. In 1590 Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation, as a counter-interpretation to Protestantism, in which he applied all but the earliest chapters of Revelation to the end time and that Antichrist would be a single evil person (not a system) who would rule the world for three and a half years during the end time. Darby picked up on these writings, probably in a library.

The main point is this: the 70 weeks of Daniel cannot be split by a 'church age' of underteminate length. It destroys all other time prophecys connected with it. No rational explanation has ever been given for doing so. It serves as a theological kewpie doll for -- over eager-- preachers and their ilk.

Dear God help us, the blind leading the blind.

So now we have John Hagee, a protestant, spouting filthy counter-reformation teachings from a 16th century Jesuit filtered and mutated through Darby. What's funny is that Pastor Hagee is always dissing Rome.

It's absolutely amazing that evangelicals now have no idea where all of this 'Left Behind' stuff came from.

How do you like the 50 x 10' full color graphic behind the sacred desk? :^)

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Rawson
Posted by: COinms on Mar 14, 2007 5:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Great Tribulation

>>> THIS COULD MEAN THAT UP TO TEN MILLION JEWS WILL BE KILLED [Rawson: emphasis ours].

http://www.israelsdestiny.com

The 'Rawson' here referred to in the above article is Pastor Kenneth Rawson. I know him personally, and the quote here is from his article on the above site explaining the evangelicals' hidden agenda'.

The way his name appears in the quotation might give the impression that he, and by extension, Bible Students, believe this nonsense. On the contrary, we have consistently warned Jews against the 'double edged embrace' of christian fundamentalists.

He has appeared on the Tovia Singer show to expose the proselytizing agenda of the theocratic right. He, and other Bible Students, are invited to appear in synagogues, yeshivas, etc. to give the presentation ISRAEL: APPOINTMENT WITH DESTINY.

As non-trinitarians, we are theologically less threatening. Our prophetic expectations are way different than LaHaye and Hagee, etc. et al.

thanks,
COinms

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Hagee & the Iran Nuclear Strike
Posted by: richards1052 on Mar 15, 2007 12:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Hagee, who calls for a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran"

I have read the same statement at another Christian Right watchdog site, Talk2Action, but I've never seen it documented. Does anyone have a link to Hagee actually writing or saying this?

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Your forgetting one thing though.
Posted by: activecitizen2007 on Mar 15, 2007 10:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A large number of John Hagees followers are people who don't have much more than a highschool diploma and many don't even have that. Almost all of them don't even read serious books on serious issues let alone read as a hobby period. They are vastly uninformed like most cultists. They wouldn't even know where to begin in researching the roots of John Hagees teachings. Most of them don't even ask questions let alone properly critique John Hagee and his inner circle. Their collective memories are also short which further compounds the problem. You also have to take into account that most of them didn't even stay awake in history class when they were going to school. Many of these folks see education as something to sneer at. The theocracy and kleptocracy has long since deteriorated into an idiocracy.

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» RE: No doubt about it... Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews
Posted by: josephq on Mar 16, 2007 3:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NETUREI KARTA...www.nkusa.org...is an international
organization of Orthodox Jews dedicated to the propagation and clarification of Torah Judaism. They do not support Zionism and condemn the mere existence of the State of "Israel" which is in direct contradiction to the teachings of the Torah which forbids the establishment of a Jewish state and commands the Jews to remain in exile until released from that exile by God Himself, without any human intervention, at which time all nations of the world will live together in peace. Their leading Rabbis note that the State of Israel has brought about the unabated ruthlessness and barbarity being committed against humanity, and do not in any way support the military conquest of Palestine.
I am not a religious person, and until I ran across the NETUREI website I assumed Zionism and Jews were one and the same...how wrong I was! It's well worth checking their website and reading their numerous and informative articles, beliefs, etc. Although I disagree with their condemnation of gays, I heartedly agree with their pacifist philosophy.

What doesn't make any sense is that despite their numerous, frequent and constant protests, speeches, burning of Israeli flags, carrying large signs stating such things as "State of Israel Does Not Represent World Jewry" "Judaism Rejects Jewish State" etc., they get no coverage in the mainstream media. For instance, last November 9, 2006, over 10,000 Orthodox Jews led by dozens of prominent Rabbis held a demonstration outside the Israeli Consulate in NYC to protest against the existence of the State of Israel and the atrocities it perpetrates. Some of the mainstream media was present, but
there was nothing printed.
Seems the heavy-handed "leaning" of AIPAC on the media to NOT print anything about these Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews knows no bounds. Wonder what the Zionists are afraid of?
Pancho

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I've said it before...
Posted by: bob t on Mar 17, 2007 9:40 AM   
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...and I'll say it again. Do not look for any help from the mainstream churchs like the Catholic Church, my church but not me. Catholics, the Popes(prior and present) and all the Catholic hierarchy are totally aligned with the Republican Party. This occurred before Reagan became president, this alignment continues to this very day. This alignment gave us Reagan, Bush41 and now Bush43.
Everyone must remember that the Catholic Church endorsed and supported Hitler and the Nazi Party, which gave us the Holocaust which in turn now gives us(and the world) the Neocons and their agenda of hate, war and US military domination of as much of the world as they can dominate. Now we have another Holocaust in the ME. That is what the Republicans and Bushies are all about.
The Bushies get their power from three sources and one of them IS:
Big Religion, both Catholic and Protestant Fundamentalists. Most Catholics are fundamentalists. Does anyone remember Rick Santorum, Sam Brownback, Tim Russert(Plamegate) Bob Navak(Plamegate), Laura Ingraham, Phyllis Schlafly, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Peggy Noonan(Reagans speechwriter) and so very many other right wing Catholic Republicans. Does anyone remember the Pro-Lifers who in reality are only Pro-Birth and Pro-Death via the Republican Party war machine of death for profit in the ME.
The Catholic Church, my church, has sadly once more made a huge mistake and aligned itself with a political party promoting death, torture and war for profit aka fascism.
Fundamentalism has got to be stopped, be it Islamic, Protestant or Catholic. All fundamentalism is dangerous and even deadly, it is not conducive to life.
True christianity is embodied in the ideas of Confucius, Hilel, Jesus Christ and even The Prophet all of whom spoke of what is embodied in the Sermon On the Mount, namely, Do unto others as you would have done unto yourselves. That is still a good message.Jesus taught love toward ALL mankind. He would NEVER approve of war and most especially a war for profit and political objectives. He forbade the merging of church and state as does our cherished Constitution. Still a wise and good admonition. The rightwingers and Republicans and their supporters will kill us all to save us, how totally oxymoronish is their thinking.
Antonin Scalia gave a speech in May, 2000 in which he advocated a higher law that must rule us(religion, although it's conflated as the law of God because he and his kind are totally convinced they KNOW the mind of God. They to like Bush talk to God and he speaks to them. No human being will ever know the mind of God in this life or the next because only God can know his mind. For any of us to think so is to place ourselves equal to God. Thats called the sin of PRIDE. The cure for that sin is the virtue of Humility and NONE of these people(Republicans/right wingers) have any Humility, nor for that matter does the Pope. They don't even try to tread the line between PRIDE and Humility they just happily vault over the line and keep on running, far into the realm of PRIDE which in reality is the realm of satan.
When Bush on four occasions claimed to be 'on a mission from /for God any true real christian should have dropped him like a molten piece of lava. Yet he gets voted into office again.

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