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Why the Right Will Oppose Getting Us Out of Recession

Posted by Matt Stoller, Open Left at 8:12 AM on December 4, 2008.


People that have money would prefer that they remain on top, and will oppose attempts to restart spending from a broad base.
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In a post about Depression Economics, Paul Krugman discusses deflation, or dropping price levels.  I'm seeing deflation in the local real estate market, as buyers are holding back because they think prices will keep dropping.  One theory is that deflation raises the value of money, which is true.  If one dollar buys more real estate tomorrow than today, the value of money goes up.  Presumably, this is expansionary since it is increasing the total monetary base in the economy, and has what's known as a 'real balance effect'.

But here's the rub.

Then add in the debt deflation issue: deflation redistributes wealth from debtors to creditors. If the debtors have a higher marginal propensity to spend out of wealth than the creditors, which is what Irving Fisher thought, then this could easily swamp the tiny real balance effect.

Deflation transfers wealth from debtors to creditors, which is another way of saying from people who have cash (the risk-averse rich) to people who don't (the poor, the middle class, entrepreneurs, risk-takers).  Unfortunately, the risk-averse rich don't spend very much of their wealth relative to everyone else, which is why they are risk-averse.  There also aren't that many of them, and they have probably become more risk-averse in this environment because of expected deflation and financial losses from substantial asset value declines.  

In order to restart the economy, the distribution has to work in reverse, part of the monetary base has to move to people who will spend from those who hoard through various monetary and fiscal arrangements (ie. government).  And here you see the political problem; people that have money would prefer that they remain on top, and will oppose attempts to restart spending from a broad base.  These people are known as 'conservatives', and they have their Beltway facing servants writing screeds about how the New Deal failed in the 1930s.  Economics is very dry and technical, but it is inherently political.  

It's useful to keep that in mind when considering how 'experts' frame seemingly apolitical arguments.  

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Exactly backwards
Posted by: NthnBrazil on Dec 4, 2008 9:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Stoller needs to work on his economic and reading comprehension. Deflation punsihes debtors - those who owe money - and rewards creditors - those who lend. Not the other way around. He has completely switched Krugman's terms and got it wrong in the process.

His whole argument is completely backwards if you think about it. If the value of money goes up, people with debt of any kind lose because the amount of their payments do not go down like the price of everything else. Cost of living goes down for all goods and services but your mortgage/credit card payment stays the same. Sounds great until you realize as costs drop, more layoffs, less jobs, wages retreat.

So in a country where most are saddled with huge mortgages and out of control credit card debt, deflation is a nightmare.

Inflation is painful in the short term, but long term makes your debt burden lighter as cost of living items get more expensive and you pay it back with cheaper dollars.

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» I retract Posted by: NthnBrazil
» RE: I retract Posted by: Xynyx
Restart the Economy?
Posted by: pdxjoe on Dec 4, 2008 10:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If that means re-starting the consumer-driven economy, no thanks. We need an economy that doesn't exist for its own sake, which is to say for the sake of consumption (whether of overt crap or other manufactured desires) and continual growth/profit. We need an economy sub-ordinate to the needs and aspirations of The People, not the other way around.

The New Deal may not have failed as the conservative pundits say it did, but by the 1970s profits were dropping as "regulated capitalism" strived to keep improving workers' standards of living (i.e. increase real wages). This was when workers' real wages stopped increasing and the contemporary credit industry/culture really began to take shape. It was also unavoidable, because workers in competition with the owning-class over profits always loses, because its the Capital (not the money) that keeps the cancer going.

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» RE: estart the Economy? Posted by: foius
Oil's A Lot Cheaper Because of the Recession
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Dec 5, 2008 12:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A part of me wondered if the global recession was deliberate.

Rumors of peak oil approaching around 2010 have been going on for a while now. The price per barrel of oil almost reached $150. This placed a lot of strain on the U.S. and it's citizens, the biggest oil consuming nation in the world.

Now with the global recession, demand has collapsed, price per barrel is around $45, and a gallon of gas is $1.89 rather than $4.00.

What was discussed in that Cheney Energy task force meeting?

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Gas Guzzlers on Trial
Posted by: jbpaz on Dec 5, 2008 2:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Human beings are not clever enough to arrange a global recession. The actors strive to gain enormous local profits. OPEC seeks to maximize profits by raising prices and holding back on production. Food manufacturers run small farmers out of business and hold the lock on commodity prices. Mortgage holders ran toxic credit to unqualified home owners.
Everybody knows how the stock market thrives with greed on the upside and fear on the downside.
The economics is a thrilling drama. Last night FOX aired the Big3 CEO's. It was dramatic and tension-filled Christians in the lion's den.

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It's All About The Cost of Energy
Posted by: Jarhead on Dec 5, 2008 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Energy is needed for everything we do. The price of energy drives everything. When oil prices started to rise steeply, it was only a matter of time before our economy and economies around the world began to suffer. If the price of oil remains low, our economy will rebound.

On the hand, we should not be dependent on foreign oil, or oil in general. Lets drill, lets build nuclear power plants (France is 85% nuclear), lets build solar and wind farms, lets invest in more energy research.

Let' not bail out failing companies. That's like giving money to the Oakland Raiders.

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Conservatives were right about the New Deal
Posted by: 2dogarage on Dec 5, 2008 12:04 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FDR was responsible for the biggest money grab from private citizens that this country has ever known-- until now.

Social programs are all well and fine but be sure to call it socialism, and don't try to hide it behind so-called capitalism. Sure it's capitalism for the big corporations but it's a nanny state and a big brother state for the rest of us.

FDR facilitated the transfer of wealth from the poor people to his rich banker blood kin who were responsible for the Great Depression (with some help from a dustbowl, I know, I know). He threw the American people the bone of social security and social works programs (can you say "Hoover Dam"?) that further enabled people to live in areas without adequate resources, destroying delicate ecosystems after absolving them of their private wealth in gold and the freedom from taxation for merely working to put food on the table.

God knows my viewpoints are at odds with many people considered great thinkers like Chomskey and Zinn and the staff at the Nation magazine...

I personally think that socio-capitalism has allowed people to breed out of control and without regard to their offspring's welfare since the government has co-opted those "welfare" responsibilities. It's no wonder why all those grandparents have nowhere to turn but to the government for their livelihood after they have abandoned their children to the whims of "Daddy Warbucks".

"Survival of the fittest" is a holistic endeavor that seems to favor violence in this medieval world that allows pre-emption, torture, race and class discrimination, etc. Some of us hope that this bankrupt paradigm will see it's destruction in the very near future and people can go back to taking care of each other and facilitating their soul's progression and happiness quotient by once more being called upon to care for their families and by extension, their fellow man.

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And one more thing...
Posted by: 2dogarage on Dec 5, 2008 12:20 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title to this article is completely misleading and no better than any of Bill O'Reilly's sensational spin...

I suspect "conservatives" are just as eager to end a recession, just maybe not in the way that the author advocates. Not all conservatives are obscenely rich like the truly big players in this financial meltdown. But supposed "progressives" are all about handing the top 1% of the nation's wealthy billions and possibly trillions (we'll never know)so that they can continue to enjoy lavish vacation junkets with the rest of the criminals who have just sold the nation down the river. Again.

That's why Gore Vidal calls this country the United States of Amnesia.

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DID YOU NOTE THAT RUPERT MURDOCH WAS DELIGHTED TO SEE THIS ALL HAPPEN. HE'S NO DUMMY.
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Dec 5, 2008 9:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He has money. He is planning on getting bargains. Sadly these bargains are at someone's expense.

Those people with money during a depression can buy "bargains". But your gain is someone elses loss. It doesn't take a mental giant to see this.

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