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Israel's Ground Invasion of Gaza Continues

Posted by Siun , Firedoglake at 9:00 AM on January 4, 2009.


Updates: Conditions worsen; Civilian causalities include women and children; American International School destroyed; Is Israel using cluster bombs?
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Updates will appear on this page as more information becomes available. These updates will be clearly marked.

Update #4 -- Cluster Bombs:

e9ea0def-904b-4b3d-870f-52e2c2536738.jpg

There’s more evidence today of Israeli use of cluster bombs, originally noted by Laura Doty at Oxdown. The Times of London features a photo in it’s coverage (see Gaza Conflict slide show) with the following description:

An artillery round sends out bomblets above Gaza City, which continues to be attacked by Israeli forces

(h/t Brandon of VoteVets who points in email to this description of the weapons seen).

The use of cluster bombs - which have a large footprint when initially dropped and then remain a threat for decades - in a location like the Gaza Strip which is so packed with people is horrifying.

Conditions in Gaza continue to worsen:

Since the beginning of the Israeli invasion, 500 people in Gaza were killed, of which approximately 70 children and 27 women. By now, a total of 2,650 Gazans are injured of which more than 270 children and 650 women. Despite the Israeli recurrent discourse, facts are clear and Israel’s war has mainly been conducted against civilians.

The medical and health situation in Gaza is on the edge of collapse, facing a severe lack of vital medical supplies. Surgeries are now made without anaesthesias or sterile equipment, as anaesthetics, sterile medical gloves or needles are sometimes no longer available.

The heath sector in Gaza was already qualified as ‘in crisis’ before the beginning of the Israeli attacks and is now overloaded with severe injured and traumas resulting from the air strikes and ground operation. Before the beginning of the recent crisis, 105 medicines for severe and chronic diseases were reported lacking. All basic medical supplies are lacking, and the situation has worsened since the main warehouse stocking medicines in Gaza was bombed last week.

The 13 governmental hospitals from Gaza provide 1,500 beds and chronic patients such as suffering from hearth problems or cancers were sent home. Half of the 60 ambulances available in the Strip are out of order, struck by Israeli strikes.

And as the International Middle East Media Center notes:

It is worth mentioning that the official number of casualties could be much higher than reported, as dozens of wounded residents who suffered mild or even moderate injuries were release without registration due to the overcrowded hospitals as the Israeli offensive continues.

It’s also important to remember that while sources identify a large number of the dead and wounded as men, by no means are all men Hamas fighters. Many are just like Laila Al-Arian’s grandfather and Laila El-Haddad’s father:

I see the number on my caller ID; my heart races. I answer my cell phone.

"We ...are under..heavy bombardment. Heavy bombardment" says my father in terrified, articulated syllables.

"They are bombing the Legislative Council building next to our house. They are bombing just down our street."

"Baba...are you safe, are you both safe??" I ask, not knowing what else to say.

"I have to go now..I have to go...i just wanted to tell you that..but I have to go..." he stammers. And the line goes dead.

And today, both are looking for safety under a rain of cluster bombs, dropped by Israel, bought and sold by us. Last night, the US blocked – once again – a call for a cease-fire at the UN Security Council, today Senate “leaders” Harry Reid, Dick Durbin and Mitch McConnell were “standing solidly behind Israel's ground operation against Hamas.”

Let’s make sure they hear where we stand.

A very big H/T to Michael Braymen who made the map above - it is the best I've seen for understanding just how small Gaza is - and so how vulnerable the 1.5 million people who live there are.

Update #3 -- Nowhere to Hide:

As Israel’s attack on Gaza intensifies, we are left with few ways to get direct information since Israel continues to refuse reporters permission to enter.

The invasion according to Defense Minister Ehud Barak "..won't be easy and it won't be short," and the amount of Israeli firepower - continued air strikes, tank fire and intensive artillery shelling - is massive.

Human Rights Watch has already warned of the extreme danger of the use of artillery in such a densely populated area:

Israel's renewed use of artillery in Gaza poses an increased risk to civilians if the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) adopts the same reduced "safety zones" that resulted in many civilian casualties there in 2006, Human Rights Watch said today. The IDF had put a moratorium on the use of artillery in Gaza after an artillery attack on Beit Hanoun on November 8, 2006, killed 23 Palestinians and wounded 40, all of them civilians.

Laura Doty over at Oxdown asks Are Cluster Bombs Falling on Gaza Today? and quotes Sameh Habeeb of Gaza Today.

In reviewing the footage starting to come out (CNN's shows the same but is not yet online in embed format, this is from Italian tv, the same is seen in a Ha'retz tv video), we do see explosions in the air with multiple projectiles - you can see this in the video. I asked markfromireland, who is quite familiar with such weapons, if these are cluster bombs and he replied:

"Hard to tell exactly what shell they're using but yes thats what they look like. If you're asking is that what a cluster looks like then the answer is yes."

Each report we see and hear repeats, as I just did, the words “densely populated” and that repitition too easily jades us to the meaning behind those words. Gaza is packed with people – the majority under the age of 17.

It is hard to realize how very small the Gaza Strip is, "about 41 kilometers (25 mi) long, and between 6 and 12 kilometers (4–7.5 mi) wide, with a total area of 360 square kilometers (139 sq mi)."

To get a better sense of that density, look at this map.

In such a small area, there is no place to run when air strikes, tanks and artillery hit at the level we are now seeing in the footage from CNN.

As a Gulf News story recounts:

One man from the Al Shata refugee camp received a phone call from an Israeli soldier urging him to leave the area because his home would shortly be shelled. He left for his brother's home.

Three hours after the first phone call the man's brother got a similar message - they both left for a new location.

Thousands of others left their homes after the start of the strikes and the psychological warfare, but many have now returned since all their "safe places" became targets.

From Ha’aretz we already see the cost of this invasion:

A family in Beit Lahiya said that an Israeli artillery shell had hit a house there, wounding many people. Ambulances could not immediately reach them because of the resulting fire, they said.

Meanwhile, Israel Air Force warplanes stepped up airstrikes on Gaza, bombing the main road that runs throughout the strip in three different spots, making travel from one side of the Strip to the other close to impossible.

Maan News reports that airstrikes have destroyed the American International School in Gaza City:

The American International School in Gaza (AISG) in Beit Lahiya was founded by Americans in 2001. An elite private institution, AISG stressed teaching English as a second language and instilling progressive, enlightened values in its students using an American curriculum.

“I have no idea what will happen to us,” said Rawan Al-Masri a first grade teacher at the K-12 school. “Where will the students study? Now there is nothing.”

The school, according to its website, has a mission to teach such ideals as “An understanding and appreciation of global interrelationships to face the opportunities and challenges of a constantly changing world,” and “Engage social consciousness,” is culturally distant from Hamas’ political Islam.

Explosions cracking in the background, Al-Masri expressed despair for the children at the school who have known only war. “They didn’t live their childhood,” she says.

“But they do know the difference between an F16 and an Apache,” explaining that Gazans of all ages have learned to differentiate between the sounds of the American-made jets and helicopters that have rained fire down on them. She says they have come to prefer the thump of helicopter blades, knowing that the supersonic jets will be less accurate with their missiles.

“It’s a disaster,” she adds, “Their target is now the civilians. They won’t finish until they kill all of us.”

AFP reports that the air strikes continue:

Thousands of Israeli troops and tanks had encircled Gaza as Howitzers lobbed shells across the border hours earlier. F-16 jets roared over the enclave where at least 460 people have been killed in eight days of attacks.

Gaza militants fired more rockets into Israel on Saturday, slightly wounding three people, and the exiled Hamas leader threatened a "black destiny" for Israel if it launched a ground invasion.

In one of the deadliest single strikes of the campaign so far, an Israeli jet fired at a mosque in the northern town of Jabaliya, killing at least 16 people among more than 200 people at prayer, medics and witnesses said.

Four children -- two brothers aged 10 and 12 and two cousins under 16 -- were among the dead at the Ibrahim al-Maqadna mosque, medics said.

Dozens of wounded were dragged from the rubble.

Sameh Habeeb from Gaza Today reports:

Breaking News: 4palestinians killed in Rafah City in Israeli bombings.
Breaking News: Israel bombing Al Uma University and hundreds of shell rain on all Gaza areas now.
Breaking News:heavy strikes across Rafah and many houses damaged.
Breaking News:Israeli tanks advanced some meters from Eretz crossing in the north.
Breaking News: Shells landed between civilians' houses east of Gaza City, Toffah, shijaya and sha'f areas.

Update #2: From Ha'aretz

Israel launches ground operation in Gaza Strip

Large numbers of forces are taking part in this stage of the operation including infantry, tanks, engineering forces, artillery and intelligence with the support of the Israel Air Force, Israel navy, the Shin Bet security service and other security agencies.

Meanwhile, the cabinet has authorized an emergency call up of tens of thousands of IDF reservists.

The invasion was preceded by the firing of artillery shells into the strip from military preparation sites dotted along the Gaza-Israel border.

The artillery fire aimed to detonate Hamas explosive devices and mines planted along the border area before troops marched in.

Palestinian witnesses said the artillery barrage caused a large explosion in Gaza City as well as a series of blasts stitching the nearby frontier with Israel.

Channel 10 television quoted a witness as saying that Israel was shelling targets along the entire length of the shared border.

Update #1: Jerusalem Post:

The IDF said that a large amount of Armored Corps, Engineering Corps and Infantry troops entered the territory with the purpose of destroying Hamas infrastructure and preventing rocket fire by taking control of launching pads in northern Gaza.

The IDF warned that terrorists using civilians as human shields would bear full responsibility for their fate.

Original post:

Israeli forces have begun the ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. AFP and more are reporting that Israel has begun heavy shelling of the northern sections of Gaza and there are unconfirmed reports that the tanks are rolling. CNN reported an hour ago that Israel was warning Gazans to leave their homes and the northern sectors of the Strip:

Leaflets signed by the commander of the Israeli military were dropped over northern Gaza on Saturday morning, warning residents to "leave the area immediately" to ensure their safety.

Amidst appeals from the UN and protests around the world calling for a cease fire, the White House signalled its ok for a ground invasion.

The Israeli press has reported that the mission was approved as a short but major operation. Some idea of the actual Israeli plans may be seen in this translation from Missing Links of an Israeli Channel Two report from March 2008 following a visit from Condi Rice:

...Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak has gotten the green light from the Security and Political Council of Ministers, which met yesterday to decide how to end the problem of the Qassam rockets, to initiate implementation of the new plan aimed an ending the problem of the Palestinian Qassam rockets aimed at southern Israel.

The televised report cited high-level security sources as saying Barak intends to plan for the removal of tens of thousands of Palestinians from the northern Gaza Strip, namely from the region that the resistance uses for the launch of these rockets, and to move them toward Gaza City and to confine them there. The Israeli reporter added that Barak is turning to legal advisers in the Defence Ministry, in order to obtain legal authorization for the removal of the Palestinian civilians...

The reporter said that once [or if] the plan becomes operational, it would start immediately: In the first stage there would be a drop of leaflets advising residents to leave their homes, in addition to special radio announcements in Arabic directed to the residents, and in the event residents didn't obey the warnings, the occupation army would begin bombing the inhabited areas, in order to compel them to leave their homes and go to Gaza City.

The Council [of Ministers], which met yesterday after the departure of the American Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, stressed that they did not agree with previous army planning for [only] a partial end to the Qassam rockets. And the Council decided to target the leaders of Hamas, political and military alike, and to destroy every symbol of Hamas authority in the Gaza Strip.

This report was confirmed by the Jerusalem Post at that time (h/t markfromireland). We know, from reporting in Ha'aretz, that the Israeli leadership began planning for the current attacks before entering the Egyptian negotiated cease-fire which expired on December 19th and used the cease-fire as an opportunity to prepare. Add in two months of forced starvation for the people of Gaza which seems now to have been designed to weaken their resistance and it seems all too likely that what we are watching today is the culmination of those plans made back in March right after consultations with Condi Rice.

Such a plan would be a violation of the Geneva Convention (pdf) that "Parties to a conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare civilian population and property. Neither the civilian population as such nor civilian persons shall be the object of attack. Attacks shall be directed solely against military objectives."

Such a plan of forced evacuation would in fact be the very definition of ethnic cleansing:

The United Nations Commission of Experts, in a January 1993 report to the Security Council, defined “ethnic cleansing” as “rendering an area ethnically homogenous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area.”

Col. Pat Lang at Sic Semper Tyrannis (a must read in these times) points our that the Israel (and US?) plans may not go so smoothly however:

Muslim militiamen of the Hizbullah, Hamas, Jeish al-Mahdi, etc. varieties have a major advantage in fighting the Israelis. These Muslim fighters all believe in an afterlife in which they will be rewarded for their shihada, their testimony, their martyrdom in what they believe to be the path of God. If you do not think that they believe that, then you are truly clueless. There are not many Israeli Jewish soldiers who think the same thing. Some, but not many. This makes for a wildly disparate attitude towards casualties. In Lebanon the Hizbullahis wore body armor and dug in well. They did that because these men were valuable assets, not because they were not willing to "be all they could be."

"More difficult than many people anticipated." Really? Were Feith and Wolfowitz involved in the planning?

Meanwhile the casualty count in Gaza is already 425, possibly more. How many more before this ends?

Digg!

Siun is a regular blogger for FireDogLake.


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January 11, 2009.
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January 6, 2009.
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What a joke...
Posted by: mjabele on Jan 3, 2009 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Leaflets signed by the commander of the Israeli military were dropped over northern Gaza on Saturday morning, warning residents to "leave the area immediately" to ensure their safety."

The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated territories on earth, with approximately 1.4 million inhabitants living in a confined space of 360 square kilometers. Where are they supposed to go? Will Israel graciously let them in, as the adjacent territory with the longest contiguous border? Or will it try to salve its conscience - assuming it still has any - by dumping the responsibility on Egypt, which has a much shorter border with Gaza, and which had nothing to do with the planning or timing of this particular attack?

These leaflets were dropped in an attempt by Israel to 1) persuade the international community that it "cares about" civilians in Gaza, when in fact the mere existence of such a crowded ghetto with no exits and virtually no economic opportunities for its inhabitants amply demonstrates the fact that it doesn't, and 2) possibly avoid causing so many civilian casualties among the general population that the subsequent media documentation, however much Israel may try to suppress it, will increase the level of outrage among its critics beyond what's already the case.

It may be that members of the Israeli government feel some remorse about killing Palestinian civilians - perhaps the same level they'd feel if they accidentally ran over a dog or a cat while driving along the highway. The dog or cat are innocent bystanders, after all. But let's be clear, it's not quite the same thing as accidentally hitting and killing a human being.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What a joke... Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: What a joke... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: What a joke... Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: What a joke... Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: What a joke... Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: What a joke... Posted by: sunnywater
» Yes, "land grab"... Posted by: mjabele
» In India Posted by: Von
» RE: What a joke... Posted by: mrjaylu
Unholy War
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jan 3, 2009 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, the US has okayed the expansion of this unholy slaughter to the next level?!

Let me be clear, I do not want terrorist attacks to take place anywhere on earth. And, selfishly, I am most fearful of terrorist attacks taking place on American soil. But after hearing the pro-Israeli propaganda coming out of the White House over the last few days, even as literal genocide is being carried out by the Israelis against an innocent people, I would not blame anyone for wanting to carry out terrorist attacks against Americans.

Let me state that such terror attacks would be evil, as all terror attacks and military operations against civilians are, but I would understand the motivations of the terrorists, sad to say.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Unholy War Posted by: Quannah
» to sick lauren feel better. Posted by: mikeben1
» To lauren apologies Posted by: mikeben1
» Laura ? Posted by: Von
» Dear Lauren Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: A blackhawk heicopter? Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Lauren Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Lauren Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Lauren Posted by: Quannah
» Innocent People? Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Innocent People? Posted by: Quannah
» OHHH I get it... Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Innocent People? Posted by: Von
» So which do you want? Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Unholy War Posted by: Vik
old news
Posted by: cbishopp on Jan 3, 2009 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a shame that any government can justify destroying a civilian population in the name of defense. If anyone criticizes the Israeli government they are automatically labeled an antisemite. The US is guilty of the same crimes and it would not surprise me that US officials had a hand in implementing this offensive.
What is the point? Is there no other way to negotiate with Hamas regarding these rockets? Have the rockets that are being shot at Israel caused a fraction of the damage suffered by Palestine during these recent attacks (much less the entire occupation over the last 60 years)?
Is this just a nice way to keep the entire region destabilized so that western powers can have access to abundant natural resources?
I realize there are many injuries to both sides and that this conflict is complex and deep rooted but at times it seems like both Israelis and Palestinians are being used by greater powers to ensure that those who have access to the largest oil reserves on the planet don't get the opportunity to nationalize the industry. This is why Iran is dangerous, this is why Iraq was attacked. Saddam started selling oil in Euros and this violates the "agreement" Kissinger struck with OPEC which took the value of the dollar off gold and pegged it to oil.
Presently, America has one functional industry, making war. Without Israel we lose our best client.
Final question...is there a way to revitalize this country's economy without creating death and destruction for countless others?
If not, then what good is the present financial structure?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: old news Posted by: hilaryuk
» The 'rain of rockets' Posted by: weathered
» am i on the right website?? Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: old news Posted by: Quannah
» RE: old news Posted by: Quannah
» RE: old news Posted by: Lauren
» RE: old news Posted by: Quannah
» RE: old news you are right. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: old news you are right. Posted by: Quannah
» RE: old news Posted by: Von
» RE: old news Posted by: cbishopp
» RE: old news Posted by: Von
» RE: old news Posted by: mrjaylu
Perpetual War
Posted by: gellero1 on Jan 3, 2009 12:32 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as there are instigating factions in the Muslim world that believe Israel must be destroyed, and are willing to provide arms, training, and soldiers, there will NEVER be peace, even if Israel pulled back to its' pre-1967 borders.

It is truly unfortunate innocent civilians are caught ( and used as shields ) in the middle.

Read the radical Muslim view here:

MUSLIM VIEW IN THEIR MEDIA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Perpetual War Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Perpetual War Posted by: gellero1
» RE: Perpetual War Posted by: Von
» RE: Perpetual War Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: Perpetual War Posted by: Von
» to von grow up Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: to von grow up Posted by: Von
» Gulf of Tonkin Posted by: Von
» AMEN Posted by: robbie.seal
Great updates, thanx!
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jan 3, 2009 12:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For months there's been no news allowed anywhere near Gaza, thanx to the Israeli jackboots. All aide has been stopped for a few years. People aren't allowed to leave, often under threat of being shot.

This is by far the most relevant news about what's going on I've seen in a week. Nice work.

Oh... I thought this line was funny...
"points our that the Israel (and US?) plans may not go so smoothly..."

And the US? That's a question? Well, Condi Rice was there, as the article mentioned! Just because Washington labels it's contribution to Israel 'aide' doesn't mean it isn't bombs. *chuckle*

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» RE: And the US? They knew. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: what are you on about? Posted by: Ghoulman
One Question... (repost)
Posted by: Quannah on Jan 3, 2009 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Leaflets signed by the commander of the Israeli military were dropped over northern Gaza on Saturday morning, warning residents to "leave the area immediately" to ensure their safety."

And where are they supposed to go?

Gaza has the third most concentrated population in the world... not a lot of open areas, or safe areas they can go. 139 square miles. Roughly 1.5 million people. They are packed in a small area. Casualties are going to skyrocket.

And yet Israel is continuing it's air assault, firing artillery into Gaza, and the ground forces are moving in to conduct armed combat house to house, street by street.

Israel has closed it's border with Gaza. Egypt closed it's border with Gaza. The Israeli Navy is patrolling the shores. There are NO OPTIONS for Palestinians.

THIS IS INSANE.

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» RE: One Question... (repost) Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: One Question... (repost) Posted by: Quannah
» You actually believe Posted by: improperly_sedated
» RE: One Question... (repost) Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: One Question... (repost) Posted by: Quannah
LEAVE THE AREA??
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 3, 2009 3:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraqis got the same warning. Why does anyone think that millions of people can 'leave the area' even if they wanted to. We couldn't evacuate New Orleans and they had 3 days warning and no one was shooting or dropping bombs. Do pamphlets clear their conscience? Israel has become brutal and has good reason to be paranoid. They usually prevail, but this time around is different. The entire world is against them. And NEWSFLASH, we don't matter any more. We no longer call the shots. ANNA

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» RE: LEAVE THE AREA?? Posted by: weathered
These Israelis are not men
Posted by: True2Blue on Jan 3, 2009 5:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It'd be beneath my dignity as a man to drop bombs on those people, or to drive a tank down their streets and shell their houses. They've got nothing to start with, and cannot get away. Of course, that's how Israel wants it.

And back in Israel, they're holding hands and dancing.

What goes around, comes around, my friends.

Israelis are land-thieves and (expletive) cowards.

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» The rockets red glare Posted by: weathered
» RE: These Israelis are not men Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: These Israelis are not men Posted by: True2Blue
RE: XTORTION
Posted by: Lauren on Jan 4, 2009 4:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, will wonders never cease? NOW I know why I heard a very strange comment the other day on TV. That the far left was joining forces with the far right. Honestly, I didn't see this one coming. As a Hippie, I thought Stormfront was with the bad guys.

I can't believe who my new friends are!

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RE: XTORTION
Posted by: hilaryuk on Jan 4, 2009 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Gazans have certainly not asked the Israelis for millions of dollars - they are not stupid. What they may ask for is the end to the deliberate starvation of Palestinians, the cessation of random attacks from Israel when the mood takes it (they have never stopped in the West Bank), and the right to have their electoral choices respected. After all, none of our wonderful leaders seem to mind Palestinians getting murdered in order to help Israeli politicians fight an imminent election.

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RE: XTORTION
Posted by: Quannah on Jan 4, 2009 12:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not according to Shimon Peres this morning on Stefanopolous' show. He said the Israeli government isn't interested in any ceasefire.

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Do I understand correctly?
Posted by: Sojourner on Jan 3, 2009 7:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of this is over the refusal of Hamas to acknowledge Israel's sovereignty and the border between Gaza and Israel?

Yes, I know there are additional issues of provocation, but the one where Hamas refuses to budge is Israel's right to exist?

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» Nice try, Ahmed Posted by: IPF
» Nice try, Schlomo Posted by: True2Blue
» RE: Nice try, Schlomo Posted by: weathered
» RE: Nice try, Schlomo Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: Nice try, Schlomo Posted by: Lauren
It's our tax dollars raining down on the heads of people in cluster bombs from our own F16s and Apac
Posted by: humanity101 on Jan 3, 2009 7:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We, the American People hold some responsibility for the assault on the Palestinians. We are complicit in this crime against humanity. If the Israeli Government called Hamas a terrorist organization, they certainly show themselves to be just that in killing innocent civilians. Stop the killing NOW.

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» AIPAC will be Obama's undoing Posted by: weathered
» stop the killing now. Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: stop the killing now. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: stop the killing now. Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: stop the killing now. Posted by: Lauren
Israeli terrorism continues
Posted by: troy on Jan 3, 2009 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the Israeli government guilty of war crimes or terrorism? Alas, they qualify for both!
They need to be brought to trial in the International Criminal Court.
Call your local televison station and congress representative telling them to support a trial at the ICC.

TRC

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» Your miscalculation is..... Posted by: mjabele
» to mjabele Posted by: mikeben1
» to Gisele Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: to Gisele Posted by: Lauren
» RE: to Gisele Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: to mikeben Posted by: Gisele
» RE: to mikeben Posted by: mikeben1
» I'll pass on that Posted by: True2Blue
» RE: I'll pass on that Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Israeli terrorism continues Posted by: Smitty1973
» Your Utopianism is showing Posted by: robbie.seal
go to youtube and type "protesting israel"
Posted by: Von on Jan 4, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
:

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It's Called Blitzkrieg Folks
Posted by: AlteredStates on Jan 4, 2009 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Jews have learned their lessons well from their former oppressors, the Nazis. "Hit them fast and hit them hard", was the hallmark of the Nazi war machine.

Another technique they are using came from us, the U.S. of A. And that is, to use overwhelming force on a lessor enemy (Iraq), and kill everything that has life in order to achieve their goal. I hope the Israelis are proud of their achievements, in that they have successfully killed over 450 civilians (and counting), and still have not stopped the rocket attacks from Hamas. I just wonder how they are going to justify this slaughter. Bush used Jesus; the Jews have Yahweh; the Muslims have Allah; but, wait, aren't they all the same God? I wonder what God thinks; the creator of them all? I wonder who is going to claim that it was God's will to have this war?

Don't the weapons we sold them work well? The Jews have learned how to kill efficiently, just like the Nazis. But, just like Germany (who thought they were going to "win"), the Jews are a little too sure of themselves, and are forgetting what 5700 odd years, (according to their calendar), of war and captivity has gotten them; the title of being called the Chosen People. Many Jews say; "Chosen for what"? And, ask God to "Choose someone else".

Read the Old Testament to see what ancient Israel went through and read the New Testament to see how this all ends; that's if you believe in Bible prophecy as a point of reference to the events that are happening in the Middle East.

However this latest conflict ends is none of my concern, just as it seems that it is no concern to God.

P.S. When God visits us here on planet Earth, we call it an "act of God", (hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc.), so what does he think of war? He doesn't. He is off somewhere playing solitaire.

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» to AlteredStates Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: to mikeben1 Posted by: Lauren
» RE: to mikeben1 Posted by: mikeben1
» RE: to mikeben1 Posted by: Lauren
» RE: to mikeben1 Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: to mikeben1 Posted by: Lauren
» RE: to AlteredStates Posted by: AlteredStates
» A little off on your "Facts" Posted by: robbie.seal
How about some un-biased reporting for a change
Posted by: IPF on Jan 4, 2009 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How Alternet - let's just portray one side of this, and ignore the facts.

Palestinian Hamas has been bombing the sh_t out of Israel for years, pushing and pushing until Israel retaliates. The whole time, all you publish is anti-Israel stories - helping to increase the violence by justifying terrorists and their murderous, violent rampages.
All the while, ignoring the facts of where, when and how this conflict started - almost 100 years ago, with a mufti incited rioting Jeehad - calling for death to the Jews - and causing death to many.

This web site calls itself progressive, but in reality is nothing more than pay-per-view and totally biased without even a hint of honesty or proper research in reporting.

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» Excellent piece! Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: xcellent piece! Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: xcellent piece! Posted by: Smitty1973
Sad
Posted by: RTTEch82 on Jan 4, 2009 5:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pretty sad. WE have Dictator Bush killing Iraqi civilians by the millions and now this. Seems the entire world has gone completely mad!

Jess
Privacy Center

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» Yes, How sad Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Yes, How sad Posted by: Von
» AMEN!!! Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: AMEN!!! Posted by: Von
Look at the language being used and you see an evil muslim...
Posted by: Bobsays on Jan 4, 2009 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
campaign underway to justify the campaign to destroy Israel. By calling a reasonable strike back against Gaza for its years of rocket attacks a 'genocide' is the sort of pathetic hyperbole typical of muslim victimhood ideology. Pretend you are the innocent one, when in fact it is Islamic hotheads who have been lobbing rockets at Israel, detonating suicide bombs (30 killed today alone), launching attacks against western countries, it goes one...

There would be peace across the muslim world if they wanted it. Just do two things: stop trying to destroy Israel, stop trying to destroy the West. That's all.

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» Never said it was... Posted by: robbie.seal
Mr. Jones
Posted by: Mr. Jones on Jan 4, 2009 7:28 AM   
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How many thousands of yearsof war and suffering been waged over this area? The world should let these two religions and thats the problem fight it out in a contest not unlike a UFC match, winner takes all, land that is and the history that pains them.

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» RE: Mr. Jones Posted by: hilaryuk
Chosen for what?
Posted by: Knowmad on Jan 4, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone once told me the reason for the ongoing strife between Muslims and Jews. It was stunningly simple:

Both their religions tell them that they are the chosen people.

Since there can only be one "chosen people", any others are obviously frauds and liars and must be disciplined and reformed. Yet another telling example of the impact and danger of organised religion.

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» RE: Chosen for what? Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Chosen for what? Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Chosen for what? Posted by: hilaryuk
Israel Has Learned WELL From The Germans
Posted by: rgoalierob on Jan 4, 2009 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Quick strikes, tanks rolling in, propoganda leaflets falling from the sky, and.....
A PEOPLE TARGETED FOR GENOCIDE.

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» I say again... Posted by: robbie.seal
No more calls, we have our winner!
Posted by: weathered on Jan 4, 2009 8:04 AM   
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IPF slide up and take a bow.

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Let's consult a Rabbi on this question
Posted by: GuitarBill on Jan 4, 2009 10:03 AM   
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Personally, I'm not Jewish, but I think it's a good idea to consult the experts on this matter. So let's listen to what an Orthodox Rabbi has to say about all of this:

Judaism and Zionism Part 1 of 5.

Judaism and Zionism Part 2 of 5.

Judaism and Zionism Part 3 of 5.

Judaism and Zionism Part 4 of 5.

Judaism and Zionism Part 5 of 5.

Judging from the content of the above mentioned videos, it appears that the Jewish community is divided on the issue of the existence of the state of Israel.

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» The State of Israel is a DISGRACE Posted by: tony_opmoc
What's the harm?
Posted by: dockboy on Jan 4, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So Hamas wants to lob hundreds of missiles at Israeli civilians? So they're the ones who continually start the conflicts? So what if Hamas terrorists hide among their own civilian population? So they're the ones who refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist?

What's the harm in that?

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» RE: What's the harm? Posted by: Smitty1973
» RE: What's the harm? Posted by: True2Blue
» RE: What's the harm? Posted by: dockboy
Cluster Bombs
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jan 4, 2009 12:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember when the US was one of the very few countries not to sign a ban on cluster-bombs?

I remember this little fact from that debate:
The group Handicap International says that 98%(!) of cluster-bomb deaths are of civilians.

Cluster bombs are banned by many countries because the bomblets sometimes don't explode. But then later, sometimes years after a conflict has ended, children or other people may pick up the bomblets, causing them to explode.

Keep in mind the Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on Earth, making the problem of un-exploded bomblets particularly serious.
(Hell, the problem of bomblets exploding when they first are suppose to explode is a particularly serious problem in a populated area!)

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» Cluster Bombs Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Cluster Bombs Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Cluster Bombs Posted by: sunnywater
» Apology Accepted Posted by: robbie.seal
My Reply To: "It's Called Blitzkrieg Folks" posted by "dockboy"
Posted by: AlteredStates on Jan 4, 2009 1:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The following comments were delivered to "dockboy". I want to share them with "Alternet" readers.

What's the difference...between Islam and Judaism? According to the Pope and Christianity, they are both defunct religions, not worthy of a second thought.

How many wars of "liberation" has the Holy Land seen in the last two thousand years? Why is this land so important to these three religions? This small patch of land has nothing but rocks and sand. If everyone really knew what the New Testament has to say about Jerusalem,(And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Rev. 11:8), true Christians wouldn't be involved in that battle for the "Holy Land".

Your comment about "win terror groups" shows you don't know world history very well. Two cases in point; the American Revolutionary War, and Viet Nam. In both cases, the "terror groups" won. The Continental Army (U.S.) used gorilla warfare to defeat the British. The same thing happened to the U.S. in Viet Nam. We lost; if you didn't know. And, the same thing happened in Palestine in 1948 when the "terrorists" won and their leader later became President of the new country called Israel (Menachem Begin, http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-begin.html).

Terrorism is a much more potent tactic than you think, and with over two billion Muslims in the world today, I think their movement is worth more than a passing glance.

As far as your assessment of what they might do "when they control" me is concerned, no one has ever controlled me, for very long, anyway; not any religion, not any person or ideology. Control is a myth invented by military and government leaders. The only ones who believe their shit are fools waiting to be slaughtered.

Terrorist Muslim groups will NEVER "win", because they have no central controlling authority. They are not fascists, because they don't control any industry like the "state" does in a fascist government (contrary to what Washington says they are).

Anyway, my point was that, the Israelis are trying to kill a gnat with a sledgehammer. Don't you think that what they are doing is overkill?

P.S. This forum has a spell check, try using it next time. Also, brush-up on your typing skills, they need attention.

P.P.S. Thanks for your comments. No hard feelings.

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» Well put, but one question... Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Well put, but one question... Posted by: sunnywater
» Spawned? Posted by: robbie.seal
For The Slow At The Back
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 4, 2009 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Are all ranting in front of your computer screens.

It ain't going to change anything.

The only way to achieve or - even stand a reasonable chance of helping us forward

Is to at leat maybe think about

INFILTRATION

You see that's what the real hard bastards have been doing for years

Like - you are almost totally convinced that all religions are a complete load of shit - designed by rich and powerful arseholes to control us peasents

And God is Within US

Not Those CUNTS

But They are in Control and have been for about the last 10,000 Years

Using The Sun and Earth and Moon and Horus and Christ and the Seasons

To keep us working for

THEM

And you see this evil bunch of red eyed slimy lizard like sausages that look like shit - think they are GOD

But God is Us - So when your friend sends you a letter ad he actually believes in the full monty....

Don't let him down - recruit him

You might both believe completely different stuff

But it Doesn't Matter

You Bothe Love Each Other as Friends -Because You Love The Rest of the Human Race as Friends

Except Those EVIL Pieces of SHIT

I think we may have to collect them all together

And do a competetion between

The Major Competing Technolgies In The Different Countries Across Our Planet Earth

To Come Up With The Best Solution

To Keep This Piece of SHIT ALIVE

And Cast It Out In To

Outer Space

So It Can Infect

ANOTHER PLANET

Oh We Are Just So Nice On Earth

Tony

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» RE: For The Slow At The Back Posted by: AlteredStates
Why is Israel bombing in the Gaza? It's the
Posted by: beijaflor on Jan 4, 2009 2:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
upcoming election! Duh! And yuppers, Quannah is totally correct.
It is amazing to me to witness the level of general ignorance about the history of this region by Alternet posters, with the exception of a few well informed folks.
A little research might also be in order in the choice of language and the naming of groups in this hellacious ongoing conflict. Israeli and Zionist, for starters. Look 'em up! Using 'Jew' or 'Muslim' tends to the pejorative, and references a religious orientation, not race or nationality.
Does what is currently going on in Gaza make me mad? Sick at heart? Hell yes.

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» It's all about the 'Livni' Posted by: Bobsays
To The Most Wonderful INDIAN Guides at Dudhsagar Falls on FRIDAY
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 4, 2009 2:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I simply couldn't have done it on Thursday

Thursday Was

The First of January 2009

And I Had a Really Heavy Case of Recovering

But on Friday The Second of January 2009

These completely Wonderful People also took 4 Northern English Blind People Up The Falls

As well as me

And my Wife and Daughter

And so after this 45 min trek - over really rough territory - beyond the most heavily polluting mines and lorries and water table plooution corruption I have ever seen

I ask him - if it's his?

He say - no I'm just the driver

We are on a rotation system - this is my first job in 3 days - I get paid 150 rupees (About $3)

And well

He was just totally lovelly

There is no way I could have made it without him

Actually I think it was New Years Eve - we Saw a Couple of The Blind Guys Again Today at the Airport

Tony

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The Reason I Post Here Is Because The Posters Are Brilliant
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 4, 2009 2:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And You Educate Me

I NOW Read Books

I didn't use to do that much

I am currently reading

"Seeds of Destruction"

Thank You for allowing me to post here especially when I am wasted

Tony

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Why are so many more men dying than women?
Posted by: SalB on Jan 4, 2009 3:23 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems like the women are doing a better job of surviving these attacks, why don't the men use those tactics to live? Maybe the women use men as sheilds? That is a little bit unfair.

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If You Have Got a Minor Physical Disability - You Fight It and Fake It So Most People Don't Notice
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 4, 2009 4:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What You don't do is What

The Beggars Do

They Highlight Their Phsical Weaknesses such that some on the Beggar Class in India

Smash Their Perfect Childs Foot - and Turn Him Into a Cripple

So That He Can Make More Money Begging

And I will not give to Beggars

My Mental Response Was The Same as The Dogs

FUCK OFF AND DIE

Tony

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RE: eturn To Paradise
Posted by: True2Blue on Jan 4, 2009 5:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wait--tell me again--what country receives the greatest dollar amount of US aid?

Oh yeah. Israel.

I'm sure that's because they're the model of efficiency and productivity.

LOL

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RE: eturn To Paradise
Posted by: hilaryuk on Jan 5, 2009 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For Gazans paradise would be to move around freely, have the means to live, have the opportunity to work, and not have their bodies and infrastructure torn apart because Israel has an election pending. Your possibly facetious comment is obscene in the present context.

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Cheap Airline Travel Is Good Because It Allows People From All Over The World To Meet Each Other
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jan 4, 2009 6:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have been doing this in Europe - well all my life.

And Beyond.

So working class Americans do this?

Its all in fucking peace.

Us Northerners Might Be a Bit Pissed But We Know What's Right From Wrong.

I Come From

OLDHAM

We Travel the World

Tony

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Watching from New Jersey
Posted by: gfbmpa on Jan 6, 2009 4:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shame, Israel. Shame on you. The current campaign of collective punishment and extinction which you are perpetrating in Gaza is horrible and pitiful beyond measure. It seems to prove that your leaders have adopted a Third Reich mentality, including 'the Big Lie.' Where is Mr. Obama on this matter of conscience? Let's cut off all US aid to Israel. And list it as a terrorist state. NOW.

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Crazy
Posted by: mmorpg on Jan 6, 2009 7:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sad to think not everyone realizes the atrocities going on over there. gaming

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