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Belated anti-hybrid hype

Posted by Rachel Neumann at 2:12 PM on July 6, 2006.


What's the deal with marriage and isn't there a cheaper way for us to use less gas?

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Evan pretty much said what I was going to say about the homophobes who are somehow obsessed from keeping gays from getting married. (I'm not married, so I don't know, but my question to the married people out there: is it really that particularly special a thing that heterosexuals have to keep gays from doing it? And if it's related to love, isn't it still true that if you "give it away, you end up having more?") So instead, I'll just ask about something that's been bothering me ever since the Fourth of July.

I went with friends and my small child to the Alameda Fourth of July parade, which is your basic small town parade with veterans and saxaphones and old cars and waving elected officials and, sadly, not very many costumes. After waving our anti-war flags at the NRA and various other contigents, we got to the progressive section of the parade, where the Women in Pink and Impeach Bush bus were strolling by, followed by about twenty middle-to-upper-class folks driving by in their hybrids, all with signs that proudly stated their gas mileage. "I get fifty miles per gallon!" One sign said, to our slightly lackluster cheers.

I thought of my own car, over 10 years old, that probably doesn't get even half that. And I'm pregnant and transporting a small child a large distance, so biking isn't an option. Because of where I work, sadly, neither is public transportation.

But isn't it still environmentally better than going out and buying a new fancy hybrid, even if, hypothetically, I could afford one? The Washington Post recently asked if it was "moral" to drive a gas-guzzling vehicle. But if it's an old one, and the whole family fits, isn't it more moral than getting some corporate job, if you even can land one, to be able to make more money to buy an expensive new hybrid? And shouldn't changes in fuel emissions be a national priority, not a personal consumer choice, since we all have to breathe the air and put on the extra sunscreen? And does all the cheering for hybrids actually lessen the imperative to get all cars to use alternative fuels or have some kind of converters?

I'm not against hybrids. My mom has one and, because she can use the car pool lane by herself now, is much more likely to be on time to babysit. But is my mom in her new hybrid really saving more gas than an old jalopy filled with five people? And if so, isn't the situation dire enough that we should declare a moratorium on all non-hybrid driving and let everyone trade in their old cars for new ones, free of charge. Or, if it's clogged roads that are a big part of the problem and the whole car-trade thing is just too far-fetched, I'd be fine if my medium-sized city just got some decent affordable public transportation.

Digg!

Rachel Neumann is Rights & Liberties Editor at AlterNet.


No "Roe v. Wade for Men"
Turns out men don't have a "right to procreate," although they do have a right to prevent procreation.
July 24, 2006.
Bush personally stopped eavesdropping probe
Gonzales points the finger at the President.
July 18, 2006.
Just two questions
Does testing high schoolers for drugs make them do more drugs? Does being on the list of potential terrorist targets insure you'll be visited by terrorists?
July 12, 2006.
Death=innocence
When is a criminal conviction not a criminal conviction?
July 5, 2006.
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I had the same response to the bit about "progressives" (read: "adolescents")...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jul 6, 2006 3:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...flipping off drivers of SUV's, while stopped at a red light, from within whatever internal combustion vehicle they happened to be driving.

Economic pressures will certainly begin to force more people into migrating to alternative forms of transportation. The sooner lower-income working folks shed themselves of the autos, the sooner they will begin to reap the windfall: no more (shady) car insurance, no more gas bills, no more taking out loans from whatever PayDay loan company that Al Sharpton is shilling for--at 1,300% APR, no more car note, no more wasted money on phat rims and nerf bars...

As a bonus: getting those 1983 cadillacs, buicks and pickups off the road will do arguably as much for clean air as some magic fairy government godmother waving her wand and making every modern, comparatively "green" SUV dissappear. Better (modern) fuel injection, engine gas recirculation systems, and catalytic converters really do make a huge difference....not that I wouldn't appreciate being to see around the land whale in front of me, or not have to look for another parking space because two I-90Canyon Navigators are rubbing shoulders over the space that I'd like to occupy, for, mind you.

Then again, it's all relative. I do live in a city with a bus system. I rode the bus while gas was above $3.00--I suspect that the situation in my city mirrors the rest of country: public transport ain't up to snuff. Yet. But as more people divorce themselves of the cars, demand will increase, and I have a tendency to believe that public transport might get much, much better, maybe on par with the train/subway systems of Japan, the trolley of San Diego, or the subway in NY (from what I've heard--never actually been to NY). Maybe it will even be privatized.

Ok, just kidding. I know no one is ready to hear that.

But with the gay marriage issue, I've always wondered why the left/progressives/liberals never, ever seem to demand that republicans/conservatives explain the vague "homosexual attack on the family". Do conservative men and women really feel that if they are given the option of marrying someone of the same sex, that they would have the uncontrollable urge to divorce their heterosexual partners and marry someone with more (or less, depending) backhair and the same naughty bits?

I mean, huh? Do they feel that traditional marriages are so shaky, so delicate that two dudes or two chicks getting hitched would be their undoing?

Meh. It's a shame that--with all the other important things: war, the national debt, etc--that the cause to ban gay marriage has become the populist movement of the moment.

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Yes. Yes Indeed.
Posted by: eakthemonkey on Jul 6, 2006 3:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While also from Alameda, I did not attend the parade and therefore was spared viewing said signs. I do agree that it's more moral to drive an old clunker around town than to get a coroprate job so you can drive an expensive hybrid. The thing about hybrids... they aren't that great unless you do a lot of stop'n'go driving. So for me, it wouldn't work that well- I do a lot of steady, foot-on-the-gas-pedal driving.

Anyway, it should be a national priority to find new ways to conserve fossil fuels- coal is not the answer, and neither are hybrids.

And I'm not married, either, but from what I hear, it isn't that big of a deal that folk who are homosexual shouldn't be able to do it, too.

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Jim Hurt
Posted by: jimhurt on Jul 6, 2006 3:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Assuming your old car is in the 20 mpg range and is able to pass smog, I say yeah keep it.

I don't know if you caught that "state of the Union" special on ABC last week, but there was a scene where they has some conservatives in a room talking about Homosexuality and they were just discusted about the very thought of two men together. This is just an imotional hot button for many and it is way past reasoning about.

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If only the auto industry could go the way of the tobacco industry...
Posted by: Apostasia on Jul 6, 2006 4:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a sane world governments actually would invest in programs that would allow people to trade in their smog creating, cancer and respiratory illness causing automobiles. In a SANE world.

It's interesting though that while hybrid cars and other technologies that reduce our reliance on fossil fuels are widely acknowledged to be a good idea (even by a big chunk of the "global warming is a myth" crowd) there is nothing really being done to make it easier for the public to use them.
Unless you can afford to shell out a pretty penny for a new hybrid car of course.

This begs the question--if the tobacco industry can be sued into ruin by governments on the basis of their products causing mass health issues, why can't the auto industry?

Oh, wait, I'll answer my own question. Same reason Hummers are not going to be pulled from the market. Money.

On the topic of gay marriage. As a married woman I can't wrap my head around the lunacy of trying to prevent gay people the right to marry. It's a sad reminder that no matter how much we see ourselves as modern or civilized, many of the superstitions and prejudices of the past still plague us. If only true separation of church and state were possible in the US this would be a non-issue altogether. There is no argument against gay marriage that holds any water whatsoever until you start talking religion. Once you get into that kind of debate, reason and sense sadly don't stand a chance.

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Frugality is also Conservation
Posted by: sirossisofliver on Jul 6, 2006 4:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I drive a 23 year old VW camper bus with no A/C (in Texas!) which does about 22mpg and with 225K miles on the clock; a 21 year old Cougar (it has A/C, for when it just gets life-threateningly hot in Texas) which does about 18 mpg with 84K miles on the clock; and my wife drives a 15 year old Toyota which does about 28 mpg with 130K miles on the clock.

We both moved our offices to the home (also paid for and owned outright) which means we seldom use the cars at all (except for weekly 3 mile jaunts to the grocery---and when it's not 'full hell hot' here in Texas, I ride a bike with my trusty canvas shopping bag to the store).

All of the above vehicles are paid for and owned outright, in great mechanical shape; well-tuned, and I can work on all of them (I rebuilt the engine in the VW Bus, as well as the suspensions on the Cougar and Toyota). I save money on insurance and repair bills. When we travel, instead of spending money on motels, we take Das VW Bus, and live in that at RV parks, or overnight interstate rest areas. It's quite fun, intertaining, and we meet many like-minded people (yes, even in Texas).

What many 'progressives' (of the yuppie persuasion) seem to forget is that 'Frugality' is also a form of "conservation". I don't believe in the waste of buying new cars, when the ones I own outright are still quite serviceable with many more years left in them...don't get me started on 'leasing' cars.

I would love to have a new Prius, but simply cannot justify the damned near $30K expense, and $300/month car payments, not to mention the 'full enchilada' insurance premiums.

I'm fighting the fascists by being as debt-free as possible (choking the banker beast to death)....banks and financiers don't make money off of me. We pay cash whenever we can.

So it should be no secret....I'm also a third-generation Scot! ...the wife's a Kraut who 'maks der leetle lists', und keeps der money ;)

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» you go, guy Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» RE: Frugality is also Conservation Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Frugality is also Conservation Posted by: Logic's Edge
» Frugality is Freedom! Posted by: Loopylafae
The answer to Gay Marriage
Posted by: sirossisofliver on Jul 6, 2006 4:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My "wife' and I have been together for for 6 years. We're not 'formally married'....that is we're 'Fornicators, Living In Sin' (FLIS) ....simply because I was married to Satan's Younger Sister for 741 years; my wife was married twice before to a couple of ...well, you know.

We are 'part of the problem' according to the Taleban. AS such, my feeling about Gay Marriage (or my particular brand of sin) is:

If you don't believe in Gay Marriage, don't go to the wedding....otherwise just shut up!

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Your are almost correct.
Posted by: cmaukonen on Jul 6, 2006 4:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually hybred, purebred, or wheat bread. None of them make sense for city driving. What sense does it make if you're "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" gets 50 Mpg if you spend most of the time in a slow crawl during rush hour. Even the interstates here come to a near halt during rush hour. And the city streets are even worse.

Driving a car in the city makes no sense. What we need is good public transportain. I used to live in Cleveland and could get nearly anywhere I wanted on their transit system and a lot quicker than by car. And no parking hasles.

If there were a decient public transportion system here, my car would get very little use and if we had an inter city rail it would get almost no use.

Chris

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» RE: Your are almost correct. Posted by: sirossisofliver
» RE: Your are almost correct. Posted by: Utnapishtim
energy transfer, not savings
Posted by: evermind on Jul 6, 2006 4:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless you're buying a new (not used) car anyway, don't bother with a hybrid. There's a huge resource and energy cost in creating a new vehicle. Overall efficiency is much higher when you keep an old vehicle running in good condition.

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Prius, schmius. How about 200 mpg?
Posted by: attobuoy on Jul 6, 2006 7:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out https://www.revopower.com/home.html for a 1HP 2-stroke gasoline powered bicycle wheel that replaces the front wheel on your bicycle and gives 200 mpg for a $400 investment.

OK, so if you're pregnant you should wait awhile.

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Formerly married lesbian hybrid owner's 2 cents
Posted by: Bouldercreeker on Jul 6, 2006 10:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About hybrids: I've owned a Honda Civic hybrid for 3 years and get right around 50 mpg in mixed driving conditions. My one bumper sticker reads "Consume less. Conserve more. Feel better." I was a low income single parent and drove rattle trap gas hogs for years until my old International truck full of kids died in the middle of a busy intersection and nearly killed us all. I then and there broke my family tradition and bought a brand new compact vehicle and drove it 200K+ miles. When it expired 15 years later, I bought my hybrid--which cost $20,000, not exactly a luxury item as far as new cars go. I expect to drive it for another dozen years. Beware of either/or assumptions. Keep in mind that not everyone has accessible public transportation; for example, I have a disability and can't walk the distance to the nearest bus stop. Nor can I commute by bike. Remember that the beater you drive somebody once bought new; better that you acquire a hybrid than a guzzler. Know that hybrid owners may be yuppie big spenders or may be more like me: working 3 nonprofit jobs to make my car/house payments, to pay for my solar panels, to help out my kids and to donate to progressive causes (e.g. Alternet). I'm proud of the frugal ways I've learned from my Croatian/Scottish ancestors.
About gay marriage: It infuriates me that I could drag a stranger off the street into the courthouse and marry him and instantly receive more than 1000 legal rights but after eleven years with my female partner, I have none of these protections or perks. Social security spousal benefits alone are worth thousands . . . and, yes, I do think one of the fears of conservatives is that women will dump their husbands and/or marry women instead. I am living proof! And my book "From Wedded Wife to Lesbian Life" gives further evidence of this trend.

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It should go beyond hybrid engines
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jul 7, 2006 2:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"And shouldn't changes in fuel emissions be a national priority, not a personal consumer choice"

Yes, there is no doubt that it should. The real question is, "what will it take to get governments to actually move on this issue?"

Hybrid engines are only a stop-gap "solution" anyhow. Oil is used in plenty of ways; transportation is only one. If we want to avoid abruptly becoming a zero-emissions society (i.e. being thrown back into the Iron age), we'd better move into alternatives fast.

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It depends
Posted by: bttl on Jul 7, 2006 3:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your conumdrum is a difficult one faced by many. It is good to be frugal, car payments and insurance are pricey, and it costs a lot in terms of fuel and resources to manufacture a new car. So, perhaps in your case, keep the old clunker but drive it less. Look into a bike trailer for the kid(s) when you're no longer pregnant. Car-pool with others. Advocate for public transit. Keep the car maintained. I don't think hybrids should get to drive in car-pool lanes btw- that's obscene- only the relatively well-off can afford them. Car-pool lanes are for car-pools.

I just had my aging Toyota worked on- engine rebuild, etc- cost a lot- but it gets over 40 mpg- where would I find another car like that short of buying a hybrid I can't afford- much cheaper to rebuild the engine. You might also look for an aging small car- hard to find here in the US unfortunately. There will be lots of SUV's for sale (lots "stolen" and torched too if covered by insurance).

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Keep your old car
Posted by: dbenson on Jul 7, 2006 7:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just spent $2000 having the motor of my 14 year old 4 cyl truck overhauled and hopefully it'll last me many more years--much less expensive than buying anything new. During the time my truck was in the shop, I borrowed a family members enormous hulking SUV, of the sort I hate with a burning passion, to get me only where I absolutely had to go. I felt like SUCH a hypocrite and I was amazed at the hostility I got from other drivers--it was almost scary!

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50mpg. + Lots of Fun!
Posted by: aussidawg on Jul 7, 2006 2:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in the south (Texas) where the weather is warm for most of the year around. I used to drive a big Dodge Ram 4x4 diesel, and every three to four days wound up singing the blues at the gas pump. I used to own a small, compact car but never did like having to accelerate to merge on the freeway or pass slower vehicles on 2 lane roads because the little thing had the power of a 6 gerbil engine (i.e none to speak of.)

The solution...a motorcycle! This is the most enjoyable vehicle I have ever driven...lots of power and acceleration, no need for a/c, 50 miles per gallon, low insurance, inexpensive even as a new vehicle (Harley-Davidson to boot)and the best thing, lots and lots of fun!!!

Okay, gay marriage. Who cares. Live and let live for Pete's sake! The Bush Administration keeps harping on the threat gay marriage will have on conventional heterosexual marriage. Well, I can tell you first hand, if anything is a threat to marriage, it is Bush's economic policies that keep the price of living soaring out of reach for so many people in this country. Financial stresses are one of the biggest causes of divorce and animosity between married partners in today's society. Perhaps if married couples didn't have to worry about who is spending what so often in order to pay monthly bills, they coud devote more time to making their marriages functional and enjoyable rather than stressful and trying.

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old, high mpg
Posted by: mwildfire on Jul 7, 2006 5:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I drive a 95 Ford Aspire stickshift. It gets 43 mpg, and now has 202,000 miles on it (knock on plastic). No way would it make sense to spend money on a hybrid that only gets a little more. But if you're driving something in the 25 mpg range...
on gay marriage, i have been mystified by that one from the start. How can gays marrying possibly affect a straight couple? Are they afraid gay marriage will be solid and enduring and look better and more fun than straight marriage, maybe?

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More counterpoint to the latest fad...
Posted by: bleda on Jul 8, 2006 4:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ah, yes, hybrids, the latest technological gift to the environment. Of course, they are filled with all kinds of electronic gizmos which will eventually begin to fail (and probably after not too long), at which time the typical yuppie owner will probably junk it , and buy another. Gee, isn't this great for mother earth? It seems to me that if a Mazda 3 with 160 hp gets 35 mpg hiway, then a car with 2/3 the weight and 1/2 the power can get about 100. Naturally, this would require that all the science that went into the Mazda go into our new hypothetical reasonable car, which will probably not happen (I'll leave reasons why to your imagination). But this is all beside the point anyway, because a visit to just about ANY other country will show us the real answer to our oil problems - public transportation.

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Do what the Cubans do
Posted by: oldsmobile on Jul 9, 2006 4:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People in Cuba out of neccessity keep their old vehicles running for decades. Dispite the fact that they drive old 1950's gas guzzlers, they are by far the most ecological drivers in the world.

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Hybrids not even necessary
Posted by: Greenslader on Jul 10, 2006 2:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that hybrid cars will decrease in cost and become an affordable alternative to traditional cars. But often absent from American discussion of this issue (I live in Italy) is the fact that gasoline powered autos that get OVER 50 mpg already exist - it's just that no US company makes them.
Take the FIAT Panda, a peppy, nice little 4-seat job with AC, airbags, ABS, etc - very comfy, if snug. Yours for about ten grand -oops, can't even buy it in the US.
The US govt should raise mileage standards and offer incentives for trading in gas-guzzlers based on EPA mileage ratings: trade a Hummer for a hybrid and you get a big rebate; do the opposite and get a big surcharge. The auto industry would be moved to produce less thirsty cars (or import them) and, hopefully, silly consumers will slowly realize that bigger is not always better.

Richard Greenslade
Milan Italy - ITALIA CAMPIONI DEL MONDO !!

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Cheaper Gas!
Posted by: RWCowboy on Jul 10, 2006 8:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it rather humerous to listen to the liberals about the high price of gas because it is getting into their pockets, they want gas to be cheaper so they can afford to drive more miles cheaper. But on the other hand they like to chatter about how we need to be less dependent on gasoline. It must come from the Robert Kennedy school "travel around the country in your chauffeured limousine and private jet telling everyone else to drive smaller cars"!

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» RE: Cheaper Gas! Posted by: drmflorida