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Where's the Debate Over Gun Control?

Posted by Liliana Segura, AlterNet at 1:10 PM on February 22, 2008.


As the Democratic party becomes increasingly pro-gun, not even campus bloodshed grabs the candidates' attention.

The campus shooting at Northern Illinois University may be old news by now, but forgive me for thinking it might have presented an opportunity at last night's debate for someone to ask Hillary or Obama about gun control. Can you remember the last time either candidate talked about it? The last time any Democratic presidential contender did? Thinking "Dems" and "guns" leaves me with images of John Kerry in a hunting outfit. Embarrassing.

Gun control used to be one of those bread and butter issues for Democrats, but recent years have seen the party's rapid evolution towards staunch protectors of the 2nd Amendement. When the Clinton-era assault weapons ban passed expired three years back, few in Congress leaped to renew it. The results have been deadly: As the Brady Campaign's Paul Helmke points out: "One thing the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shooters had in common was that they both used high capacity ammunition magazines that would have been prohibited under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban that expired in 2004."

Of course, easing up on gun control has been critical to the Dems courting voters in Western and Southwestern swing states; the more Democratic candidates have traded gun bans for wishy-washy pro-regulation positions, the more the NRA has rewarded them, upping their political contributions to the Dems. ''Certainly, we support more Republicans than Democrats," a public affairs director told the Boston Globe in 2005, "but we've seen in the last few years an increasing number of Democrats actively seeking the NRA endorsement and actually winning it."

As Salon reported following the Virginia Tech massacre last spring:

Today, a substantial portion of the party's new standard-bearers are pro-gun, or at least anti-gun control. Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor who now heads the Democratic National Committee and is the favorite of the new party power base emerging from the Internet, has long been an opponent of gun control. So has Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., the man whose squeaker victory in November gave Democrats control of the Senate and who was selected to give the party's response to President Bush's State of the Union address this year. Last month, one of Webb's aides was arrested on his way in to a Senate building with one of Webb's guns in his possession. Webb responded with a spirited defense of his right and need to bear arms. Even Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., the new Senate majority leader, is pro-gun.

So where do Clinton and Obama fall on gun control?

It's hard to say, they've said so little about it. As a Boston Globe editorial by Derrick K. Jackson pointed out this week:

Clinton has nothing about gun control on her website. The only reference to guns on Obama's is his plan for sportsmen, which includes "Protecting Gun Rights." That section says, "As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama understands and believes in the constitutional right of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting."

Not too promising.

Nor is it particularly surprising, given the Dems' deliberate shift in their gun control stance. But as candidates who promise "change" and "solutions," it's still disappointing. The Democrats may be playing it politically safe by keeping silent -- or pandering to the right -- on this life-or-death issue. But tell that to the families who are routinely affected by gun violence, whether in freak campus shootings or on city streets.

"As Clinton talks realism and Obama talks common sense," Jackson writes, "the senseless killings continue, aided tremendously by the American access to guns."

At the very least, it's an issue that's ripe for debate.

Digg!

Liliana Segura is an AlterNet staff writer and Editor of the Rights & Liberties section.


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View:
Those eeevil high capacity magazines
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on Feb 22, 2008 12:33 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who is well versed in the use of firearms doesn't need a high capacity mag to make said firearms deadly. Pretty stupid to suggest that renewing the Brady bill would have prevented the NIU massacre.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» The NIU guy had a shotgun ... Posted by: johnshadows
» It takes me all of Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: It takes me all of Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: It takes me all of Posted by: Xynyx
» What a maroon Posted by: war_on_tara
» It must take incredible dexterity Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» people who Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» straw man Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: straw man Posted by: intoleranttoidiocy
» Outlandish? Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» He tried to Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» You're at home 24/7? Posted by: war_on_tara
» No Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Outlandish? Posted by: YogiBear
It is no longer a federal issue
Posted by: tfinn on Feb 22, 2008 3:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but instead has become a state issue.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Slavery was a state issue Posted by: Romantic Violence
» RE: Slavery was a state issue Posted by: intoleranttoidiocy
mick3
Posted by: mick3 on Feb 22, 2008 6:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the US reduced to a rogue state by a bunch of murderous sociopaths, it's a wonder the entire population hasn't bought up every available weapon they can get their hands on. Martial law is coming, and this population are still "good Germans" or "peaceable Jews" waiting like sitting ducks for the SS squads--oops, Blackwater mercenaries---to start their home invasions and such. Apparently few Americans can envision being sent to one of the many detention camps now littering the land, to be disappeared, tortured, murdered.

NOw that Bush and Cheney have all their ducks in a row, this nation's "end times" is about to begin, and still no rumble of revolution. Is it due to the captive media, fluoride in the water, the decades of rightist propaganda, or just pure listlessness?

Well, for one thing, in the US neotony rules, with most US males apparently preferring to remain boys forever. Who wants to take up a man's responsibilities as a citizen when there are so many....well, games, for instance? Anyway, the time for saving ourselves has long since passed. As Ben Franklin said, it's our republic if we can keep it. Well, we haven't. The barbarians win, hands down.

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» RE: mick3 Posted by: Susan Kipping
More laws won't help; some existing laws hurt
Posted by: willie.horton on Feb 23, 2008 3:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, the author wants the Democratic Party to plunge back into what the right will (accurately) call "gun grabbing." Great: let's lose another presidential election! After all, it worked out so well for us over the last eight years...

You can pass all the "gun control" laws you want, and they won't prevent such tragedies: laws only affect the law-abiding. If the shooter had been restricted to ten-round magazines, he would have just carried more of them.
Illinois' strict "gun control" made this tragedy easier for the gunman: he knew he faced only disarmed victims.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» because they use Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» Nonsensical Posted by: YogiBear
» not the same Posted by: YogiBear
» Won't somebody think of the children?!? Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» rather Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» Works for me.. Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: And their KIDS love to play with guns... Posted by: intoleranttoidiocy
» Just Who is Holding the Guns? Posted by: MichelleH
Get Your Priorities Right
Posted by: redbridge on Feb 23, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You answered your title question with your last paragraph. Like it or not, this IS an issue out here in the sticks. It is, in fact, a deal-breaker for some of my close friends when they step into the booth. To be any better than Bushco, Democrats must 1) Get INTO the White House and 2) remember the congressional paralysis caused by failing to 'reach across the aisle'. Finally, we read - every day - of the corruption that has been the GOP. Do not underestimate them. If they can rally their cause by pushing gun control to the forefront of this campaign, they will. And at what cost - a couple dozen students? Forgive the ugly comparison, but a few staged shootings cost next-to-nothing compared to Iraq...

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» RE: Get Your Priorities Right Posted by: Knot_Rich
Schmuck
Posted by: Nebris on Feb 23, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it was not for us 80+ million gun owner and our 220+ million guns, the Fascist scum in this White House would have declared Martial Law years ago, so please, just STFU about guns already. We have more important things to worry about, like universal health care and the ongoing bloodbath in Iraq.

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» Yeah, right. Posted by: mbruton
I'm glad that the democrats aren't pushing Gun control
Posted by: rickiey on Feb 23, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because I'm one the few progressives that this would be a deal-breaker for.

The democrats already have my vote, (after 8 years of Bush hell, how could they not?).

But gun control could change my mind. I'm a big fan of the Constitution as written and intended.

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» Troll. Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Troll. Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» extreme exaggeration Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: extreme exaggeration Posted by: YogiBear
» My NRA Troll Credentials Posted by: meetmeineleusis
The NIU shooting sucks...
Posted by: sausage on Feb 23, 2008 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But that's no reason for the kneejerk liberals, after drying the crying towels, to start talking about "gun control."

It is, of course, a guaranteed method of keeping working middle-class males, mostly suburb and rural whites, aligned with the GOP and against their own best economic self-interests.

There are far too many gun deaths in this country. But there are far, far more deaths due to stupidity and carelessness behind the wheel of an automobile.

So how do our august state legislators deal with limiting the number of traffic fatalities?

By putting more restrictions and controls on the driver, not the machine, i.e. automobile.

In my state, the first time some one applies for a hunting license he or she has to take a hunting/firearm safety class. But if that same individual has no inclination to hunt but still wants to purchase a handgun or a so-called "black" rifle all he or she needs to do is pass the federal background check.

It is not the "gun" that needs to be controlled but the shooter. All shooters should be required to go through mandatory state-licensed firearms safety classes to receive a shooter's permit. Shooter's permits would also require proof of some sort of liability insurance before issuance to an individual. Treat the privilege of shooting firearms like the privilege of driving a car.

Wouldn't eliminate all firearm deaths, but I'll bet there'd be fewer of them.

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» RE: The NIU shooting sucks... Posted by: Romantic Violence
» RE: The NIU shooting sucks... Posted by: VZEQICVA
» CONTROL Posted by: YogiBear
» Damn yogi Posted by: meetmeineleusis
Guns aren't the problem
Posted by: snax on Feb 23, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Taking away one weapon just creates the opportunity to replace it with something else. This is a mental health and social issue, and gun use is merely the expression of that.

Seriously, who can't spend 1 minute on the internet and find another way to kill people without a gun?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

a voting citizen
Posted by: throck on Feb 23, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apparently no has noticed that since campuses have been declared "free fire zones" AKA "gun free zones" that mass killings have become popular. Neither democrats or republicans care how many people they kill to achieve their dictatorial goals and both feed equally on the blood of these victims. Until enough people take up arms and develop the skills to use them effectively These senseless killings will continue. We are our own defense. Period. The promises of others to "protect" us are nothing but lies to enslave us. Alternet readers must realize that liberty comes with a price and we must accept responsibility for preserving it.

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Divide-and-Conquer and keep them dopey. Works everytime for elitists.
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 23, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't expect the NRA or other elitist gun lobbyists to crack down on bad shooters. Sure, they'll say anything about guns not being the problem but let's face it. Their plans are just like the rest of Corporate America. Maximize profits at all costs. This means that by cashing in on tragedies, just convince more people that having a gun is "mandatory", never mind the fact that the lower, working, middle class voters will decimate each other first while the wealthy and corporate elite have plenty of field days to laugh at us all. This would be similar to the way the fate of the Native Americans took place. In addition to the imported diseases that decimated the population, the European immigrant elitists knew that they could dupe several Native American groups into killing each other off. When the groups finally woke up and joined forces, it was too late and I'm afraid the same thing is happening to this country.

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Guns were never the problem...
Posted by: Romantic Violence on Feb 23, 2008 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This piece is my response to an earlier post and I would like to clarify the meaning and purpose of the magical license that everyone seems to think will alleviate the problem of mass shootings. Licensing firearms has nothing to do with safety or security. A license, just like a driver license, has everything to do with selectively controlling entry into activity or controlling activities within an activity..plain and simple. It's codified regulation at its best and has historically served to separate the 'haves' and 'have nots'; licensing serves to subordinate the vast majority of society. If you don't believe this, sojourn to your nearest bureaucracy and attempt to acquire any license without enduring a bunch of shitty requirements that the average person doesn't fulfill thus making all of us ineligible. Have you ever wondered where gun control in America has its origins in the first place? If not, you should reference history before you make suggestions that will inevitably enslave everyone here because your leaders, not mine, tend to seek and garner support from the majority of the uninformed and naive or apathetic. Be careful of what and whom you support because what affects one group today will envelop and affect everyone tomorrow. Does Pastor Niemoller ring a bell? Look for my book, "To Oppress or Not to Oppress". And by the way, owning personal arms has nothing to do with the medieval privilege of hunting on the King's Commons or recreational shooting; self defense against predation, whether the predator wears blue jeans or blue uniforms is a natural right. Watch Animal Planet. IT'S A RIGHT. I've always said that if you scare enough people, they'll eventually 'vote' themselves into a padded concentration camp.

1789

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» RE: Guns were never the problem... Posted by: Romantic Violence
How about, "As AlterNet readers become increasingly pro-gun..."
Posted by: war_on_tara on Feb 23, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gee, I thought from reading Mark Ames' incredible article the other day that those killings were the result of NIU being a "glorified community college" where students got allergies from being in the cornfields and the shooter must have been ground down by his boring suburb and boring job, etc.

At any rate, we can always count on the gun stories to bring out the otherwise sane AlterNet misinterpreters of the Second Amendment, ever at the ready to protect us from our own army, police and apparently their conservative fellow gun owners against an oppressive 18th century government.

Now where can I get a musket?

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» Too bad you don't know any history Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Too bad you don't know any history Posted by: Romantic Violence
» not reassuring! Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: not reassuring! Posted by: Romantic Violence
» and a vast majority of them Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» Speaking of history... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Speaking of history... Posted by: Romantic Violence
Where is The Money In It?
Posted by: Gravitas on Feb 23, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe because the issues the candidates push first and foremost please their corporate backers. What we are trained to see as critical often have agendas behind them; everything from McCain wanting to stay in the war(read continued gravy train for the military industrial complex) to Hilary wanting to reduce obesitity among senior citizens (read government picks up the tab for more risky and ineffective weight loss schemes.) Are chubby senior citizens a bigger threat than a population shooting each other??? Of course not! Sadly, government is not about what is doing what is best for the population anymore. It has become a vehicle for every special interest to drive the people into the poor house. Politicians are the chauffers that take us there.

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Pay Attention, Progressives. It's MY gun.
Posted by: Brez on Feb 23, 2008 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want progress, Progressives please read the messages on this topic. They are overwhelmingly from Democrats and they overwhelmingly oppose further gun control for law abiding citizens. I own guns and I know how to use them, having been trained by the best (USMC). You need to get elected first, and that won't happen if you favor extremist gun control (means any more than we have now).

Just as a lot of Kansas Republicans pull the trig..., oops-lever..., oops-e-dot for the pro-choice candidate once the curtain closes, a lot of Democrats (me included) will not vote for a candidate who supports confiscatory or even arbitrary determination.(Means the local "sheriff" decides based on anything other than a felony conviction or commitment.)

I would NEVER vote for a Republican after the disgusting debacle of the last 7 years, but if one wins because I won't poke the dot for a candidate who doesn't respect my Second Amendment RIGHTS, well, too bad. Go ahead, anti-gun nuts, put Mad Mac in the White House.

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» UNBELIEVABLE! (No, really) Posted by: luckypuck
People are Afraid
Posted by: Southern Gal on Feb 23, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People in my neighborhood subscribe to the protect your home, property and hearth philosophy and that includes having and using guns if necessary.

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» RE: People are Afraid Posted by: Lauren
LIBERAL GUN GRABBER
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Feb 23, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LEAVE OUR GUNS ALONE.. DEFENSELESS POPULATION =SLAVES

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» RE: LIBERAL GUN GRABBER Posted by: harryf200
Ban Guns
Posted by: Username9 on Feb 23, 2008 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't own a gun and I don't thing they should be legal period. Guns are immoral. If we need a gun to protect our rights we have already lost our rights and our sanity for that matter. The power of a gun lies in the person it is pointed at not in the person pointing it.

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» RE: Ban Guns Posted by: tjg1984
» MOLON LABE Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Ban Guns Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Ban Guns Posted by: donl51
» RE: Ban Guns Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Ban Guns Posted by: DeeOhGee
Welcome to the Struggle
Posted by: here again on Feb 23, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Welcome to the struggle,

I've written two widely circulated articles on gun control in the past 4 months both widely distributed. One is called "Another Poster Child for the NRA," dealing with the off duty killings of a Wisconsin police officer, and the other, "Taking on the Lobby," talking about the need for Barack Obama to talk about this issue.

I'm glad to see others are finally catching on.

Thank you

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» RE: Welcome to the Struggle Posted by: YogiBear
Do you know why the Dems shifted?
Posted by: Lauren on Feb 23, 2008 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I told them to.

the Dems' deliberate shift in their gun control stance.

It was a good political move for them to make. The right wingers had been destroying them in the elections on this and late term abortions. i wanted the game to work, so I knew this was a needed change. I was very pleased they took my advise, it is saving the party.

Gun control HAS to be a state or regional issue, the nation has spoken. I thought Obama's statement was just fine. I am curious, what exact policy are you advocating for?

Training, background checks and gun locks in houses with children are the issues I would be calling for if I were you. You can't have a ban. What do you want that is achievable?

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» Banning handguns Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» ??? Posted by: war_on_tara
» They make these things called hacksaws Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» Wow you are a fucking tool Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» Just goes to show Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» I'm glad we agree on something! Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: They make these things called hacksaws Posted by: Romantic Violence
Like it or not
Posted by: tkwilson on Feb 23, 2008 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
all of you live your lives at gunpoint.
Every legal relationship in this country is backed by som