Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

Should a Woman Change Her Name When She Marries? 70 Percent of Americans Think So

Posted by Jill Filipovic, Feministe at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2009.


Another 50 percent believe it should be required by law.
weddingrings

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

Got a tip for a post?:
Email us | Anonymous form

Get Jill Filipovic in your
mailbox!

 

Apparently 70 percent of Americans believe that a woman should change her name when she marries, and 50 percent believe it should be required by law. While I would expect most Americans to favor name-changing, I didn't expect that it was that high, and I certainly didn't think that so many people believe it should be legally mandated. I was also suprised that only 5-10 percent of women keep their own names.

I'm not married and so I recognize that this is an easier calculus for me to make now, but I have never even considered changing my last name. I don't think I ever would consider it. My mom, like many women of her generation, took my father's name -- it's just what everyone did, and it was easier. My best friend, who was raised in a pretty religious home, took her husband's name when she got married -- I don't know that she really gave a lot of thought to the whole process. It was just what you did.

Where I actually felt the shock of the name-change was seeing a list of female names I didn't recognize on Facebook, then clicking through and realizing, oh, that’s someone I've known since the 5th grade. Except not really, because I always knew Jane Jones and now she’s Jane Brown. Or maybe she’s Jane “Jones” Brown with her former name in quotes -- because, I dunno, it's a joke? I suppose I'm sheltered, but I assumed that the majority of my female friends (and especially college friends and acquaintences) would keep their own names. I was stunned at how many women I knew changed their names when they married.

What throws me off even more is when I see feminist-minded or liberal women take their husband’s name, and then defend it with "Well it's my choice" or "My last name was my father's anyway" or "I don't care about my name." I can understand the name-change part, even if I don't like it -- it can almost be more of a hassle to keep your own name than to take your husband’s once you're married, especially if you have kids. People may criticize you for keeping your own name. In a lot of communities, it is what everyone does. Your husband may even be upset if you don't want to take his name (although I'd say that's a pretty good indicator that he's kind of self-centered and you probably shouldn't marry him).

What confuses me (and gets under my skin) is the justification -- or at least, the justification based on things other than the very real, tangible sexist reactions that married women face when they keep their own names. Things like, "Well, it was my father's name." Well, sure, but what does that mean? That no woman ever has her own name, unless she was born into a culture where naming is matrilineal? Or, "I like his name better." Ok, but do men regularly change their names just because their partner as a "better" name? I’ve come across maybe one man in my whole life who has done that -- I somehow doubt that it just so happens that 99 percent of people with the “better” name are male. Or, "I want our whole family to have the same name." Again, understandable, but how come he didn’t change his name? Or you can both change your names.

I wish we could have a more honest conversation about name-changing. Instead, women like me who find name changing really, really problematic are cast as simply mean and judgmental, and women who do change their names are just exercising their "choice." I'll cop to being judgmental here -- this isn't one of those situations where I think every choice is equally good and it's a simple matter of preference. That said, there are very real reasons why married women may change their names, and I can certainly understand and empathize with making certain compromises and just not having the desire or energy to fight every feminist battle. I don't think it calls your feminist creds into question if you change your name. But I admittedly do wish that more women would keep their names. I wish more women felt like it was a valid and accessible option.

Names and naming matters. It is bigger than just an individual, personal choice. While I certainly respect the rights of people to make their own choices when it comes to their names, and while I can’t fault women who decide that keeping their own name is not a battle they want to fight, let’s not pretend like these choices exist in a vaccum, or like they don’t have a wider impact when it comes to normalizing sexist cultural practices.

I've been to a couple of weddings in the past few months, some where the bride changed her name and some where she didn’t. I'll admit, on a very basic level, that I felt a little gut-punched when the name-changing couples were announced as "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith." The woman was totally erased; she entered into what I would like to think of as a partnership, and instead she was just absorbed into her partner.

I don't think I'm alone in that feeling. That's apparently what a lot of Americans believe a name-change represents -- they just think it's a good thing:

When the respondents were asked why they felt women should change their name after the wedding, Hamilton says, "They told us that women should lose their own identity when they marry and become a part of the man and his family. This was a reason given by many."

There is a loss of identity when you change your name. For a lot of people, name-changing in a non-marital context is entirely about changing who you are, or selecting a name that better represents the person you’ve become. It can be a great thing when it represents a personal evolution, or a more accurate reflection of who you've always been. But when it represents losing your own identity so that you can be absorbed into your husband and his family? No thanks.

Name-changing also reinforces hetero marriage practices -- after all, this would be a very different debate if people were allowed to marry any consenting adult, regardless of gender. And name-changing does help to reinforce cultural assumptions about marriage that make the fight for marriage equality even more difficult -- the assumption, for example, that the man is the head of the household and the woman is absorbed into him.

I'm not exactly on the marriage-and-babies track, but should either (or both) ever happen, my name is staying mine -- and if I'm the one giving birth, you can bet those kids are getting my last name as well.

Now start the countdown until a conservative blog describes me as a selfish shrew for wanting to do no more than what men have always done.

Digg!

Jill Filipovic is a New York-based freelance writer and a law student at NYU. More of her writing is available online at her blog, Feministe.


So the Stupak Amendment Sucks: Here's What You Can Do About It
Find out how your representative voted on and call their office, to thank them or to tell them that you'll be supporting a pro-choice democrat in the next primary.
November 10, 2009.
Word to the Wise: Never Date a Guy Who Reads Details Magazine
A few experts discuss the "trend" of women tricking men into impregnating them, without offering any hard information or statistics.
October 28, 2009.
You Don't Have to Dress as a Bigot or a Slut for Halloween: Here's Some Better Ideas
Here's some great DIY costume ideas for those of us who hate having to choose between Slutty Nurse, Slutty Cop and Slutty Cat every year.
October 21, 2009.
Women Should Cut Out the "Fat Talk"
The nasty comments women make about their bodies are uncomfortable and harmful.
October 19, 2009.
Advertisement
Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Tools: [Post a new comment] [Login] [Signup] View:
awakeallready
Posted by: awakeallready on Oct 26, 2009 11:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel like I could have read this in my high school newspaper. I mean it's well-written and all, but this writer's perspective is, shall we say, nascent? Should we expect an article to be written by someone with _some_ experience of the subject? Maybe I'm out of line with these comments, but that's how it struck me.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: awakeallready Posted by: EKSwitaj
» airball! Posted by: awakeallready
» RE: airball! Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
I didn't get an equal say in the wedding ceremony! Teh insduhtooshunal shexisms!
Posted by: franklyspanking on Oct 26, 2009 11:07 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Agggggggggghhhh!!!! Fetch me my torch and mob!

(Insert appropriate whining and gnashing of teeth here __________________)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

You don't have to wait
Posted by: Lendervedder on Oct 26, 2009 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, so I don't think you have to wait for the conservative blogs to call you a selfish shrew. There will be enough liberal ones to do that. You're not a selfish shrew for holding the opinion you hold. You're a selfish shrew for browbeating feminists into feeling bad beacuse they don't hold a similar one. Just because you feel one way as a woman doesn't give you the right to make other women feel bad for making a different choice.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: You don't have to wait Posted by: EKSwitaj
» RE: You don't have to wait Posted by: Lendervedder
» RE: You don't have to wait Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: You don't have to wait Posted by: pitipua
The correct answer is "if she wants to."
Posted by: ikonoklast on Oct 26, 2009 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's amazing how often that works. Let's give it a try.

Should a woman keep her maiden name? If she wants to.

Should she take her husband's last name? If she wants to.

Should she carry her child to term? If she wants to.

Should she have an abortion? If she wants to.

Should she go to school? If she wants to.

Should she pursue her career? If she wants to.

Should she become a stay at home mom? If she wants to.

It's that easy. The answer works so well for just about everything that we should just assume it as the default.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Some would disagree Posted by: njguy73
The Author is Trying to Make a Point
Posted by: terradea42 on Oct 26, 2009 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should a woman wear a Burka? If she wants to doesn't do it for me. Women follow tradition because it's tradition, not because it's right. Even if the tradition is silly (like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes), people act like lemmings and do it anyway. The author is asking women to THINK, not trying to tell them what is right or wrong.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Wow
Posted by: Robba29 on Oct 26, 2009 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm shocked that it is that high, too. My immediate reaction is to think that there is an over-sampling error of some particular demographic. This just doesn't make sense. I've lived in the conservative mid-west and on the more liberal west coast and from my experience there seems to be a common practice now of keeping your family name once married. I'm seriously blown away by this.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

NOT ABOUT FEMINISM
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 26, 2009 12:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With people relocating and making long distance moves, it's not a bad idea to keep the maiden name or hypenate and have a seperate telephone listing. A man can move across the country and pick up a phone book and find an old friend or class mate, a woman can't do that if names are changed. A friend form kindergarten might live three blocks away and you'll never know. You might not be found for a class reunion. Husbands should not be offended. We just don't want to 'get lost'. ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: NOT ABOUT FEMINISM Posted by: EKSwitaj
Good for you!
Posted by: LRayn on Oct 26, 2009 1:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did not change my name when I married. I have a clear identity in my town as an individual. I was also raised by a feminist mother who didn't have the option to NOT change her name when she married in the Catholic Church in 1964. I was shocked when my sister's husband whined until my sister agreed to change her name to his.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Third Way
Posted by: QQOblivion on Oct 26, 2009 1:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll never get married. But still, if I did, my preference (got to talk to the Mrs-to-be about this first) would be for BOTH of us to change our names legally to something else, a common name that neither of us yet possesses.

That kind of sounds romantic to me -- a new life together and all. And, in any case, my current last name is my parent's. Hey, my MOM is Mrs [my current last name inserted here]....

But -- if you want to talk about sexism -- it is MUCH harder for a man, at least in this state, to change his name for any reason (including marriage) than for a woman to do so because of marriage.
Fees (not cheap), court dates, paperwork, etc for the man, nothing like that for a women changing her name because of marriage.
I think there may even be grounds for a civil rights lawsuit here. But maybe not, because I wonder if there are more than just a handful of men -- it seems that there are definitely few -- who would change their names to their wives', or change each of their last names to a third name along with their wives.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The Third Way Posted by: cats.anon
» RE: The Third Way Posted by: kathy-me
» RE: The Third Way Posted by: adlibphotographer
PS: Third Way
Posted by: QQOblivion on Oct 26, 2009 2:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also I would like to say that it is not really surprising that about 50% of Americans support making its a legal requirement for women to change their names to that of their husbands.

Also, about 50% of Americans support torture. About 50% of Americans, of those who voted, voted for Bush -- twice.

About 50% of Americans voted for McCain/Palin.

My point, about 50% of Americans are COMPLETE imbeciles!
On top of that, a significant percentage has no opinion on the issues -- also not likely to be a bright bunch, generally.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I didn't change my name
Posted by: donna93 on Oct 26, 2009 2:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reasons I give for not changing my name are 1) because it was mine and I wasn't done with it yet and that 2) we both chose to keep our names and by the way 3) not your business.

It is interesting to me how many people think they have a stake in enforcing that every woman around them changes a core part of their identity - not just relationship - but identity if they should choose to marry.

I think the real reason had to do with growing up in a mostly female household - I was the youngest of four daughters with a mom and a dad. My sisters began to question things before I did - questions such as "why do all my friends with beautiful interesting names feel like they have to change them to boring names like Jones and Brown?" or "What happens when half the ethnicities that could be represented are merged out of existence, or virtually so?"

By the time I married, one of my sisters was divorced from an abusive marriage, and remarried (she chose to keep her original name the second time), one was married to something of a loser, whose name she did take, and one was fully adult, yet not quite thought of that way in the extended family since she had not chosen to marry. When it came to my own name as my marriage approached, I had believe that hyphenating both of our names was the best compromise. I still think this was a viable option, yet when it came down to it, my husband-to-be helped me make up my mind. He said that he would continue to use his birth name for professional purposes, as a musician. I also write, so I thought about what it would be like to use one name for personal and one name for business purposes, but somehow it just didn't make any sense to me. I realized that just dividing identities, or merging, as you will, wasn't quite as simple as it seemed.

When I talked to him then about not changing my name, I realized I really didn't know what he would say, even though we are both, you know, liberal-minded and all of that. But he accepted it easily; it was not a problem, which I took as a strong pledge of his love for me.

Over the years it has simply been normal for us both to have our own names. I don't get mad when people call me "Mrs." (which they do a lot since I'm now a teacher) instead of "Ms." and he doesn't get mad when telemarketers and such call asking for "Mr." by the wrong name. All the people who care about us know our names and don't mind writing both names on our Christmas cards.

I do enjoy it when students ask me if I'm "really" a "Ms.", "Miss," or "Mrs." The young are amazingly adaptable when I say, "I'm married, but I didn't change my name when I married, so I go by 'Ms.' " ; When asked who's name I have I say "My name." Who else's name would I have?

Oh, and our daughter's name? It's hyphenated. She should know that if and when she marries her choices are many.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

stop judging others- there are many reasons 4 name choice
Posted by: free2disagree on Oct 26, 2009 4:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, I do not know where and how and by whom this data comes from, but where I live, plenty of women keep their same last name after marriage.

However, I CHOSE to take my husband's last name, and use my family name as my middle name (NOT in quotes- I have never seen that) after careful consideration of my options.

-I didn't have a big career going that required name recognition for my paternal name.

-I did not want a long unwieldy hyphenated name to deal with.

-With it as my middle name, it's on my driver's license for previous identity purposes, but I do not have to use it in daily life anymore. This was useful when I was taking care of my parents and handling some things right before they died.

-I have always hated my family name, which has a negative adjective meaning as an English word. I do not want to tell it here, but take my word for it, I was teased.

-I was also physically abused by my father, and looked positively on leaving his name behind as a healing experience. It was, very much so.

-My husband's name starts with a V and has no other meaning in English, which I very much liked.

-I felt it was important for us and our son to all have the same name, like a team. I still enjoy that.

Frankly, I felt more pressure from some of my female friends to keep the name than change it, but I knew this was the perfect opportunity to easily change my hated name at last.

And by the way, my sweet husband was truly open to whatever choice I wanted, and "just wanted me to be happy".

The author claims she is not judging, but dismisses very real reasons as if they are trivial excuses to succumb to the patriarchy or something. You do not know what is going on in someone else's life, so do not assume conservatism when it might be any of several pragmatic and practical considerations.

I agree with the person above, that it is a personal choice.

As a strong feminist who chose freely to change my name, and also quit my job at a family planning clinic to be the primary caregiver for our son, I feel lucky that this was a choice that was affordable for me and our family, and not a requirement.

So it makes me sad when some women do not understand that to say that NO women should make the choices I have made is restricting freedom, just as saying ALL women must live this way.

There are many different right ways to live. Stop assuming and let people make their own choices, even if it is not the one you would make. Thanks.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

name game
Posted by: livewire on Oct 26, 2009 4:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been married twice (once in the 70s and again in the 90s) and didn't change my name or even consider it either time. It has never been the least bit of an inconvenience. Never once. I can not for the life of me understand why anyone would choose to do so. I don't think it makes it "simpler" if you have children. Everyone can get used to you having whatever name you have, what is inconvenient is learning a new name for someone. For the record, my son has his father's last name and my daughter has mine. It's really not that complicated. I do believe people should be allowed to choose to do what they want, but I think most women change their names because they don't really think about it, they just follow tradition. Well, they don't think about it until they get divorced, and then have to go through the hassle of changing it back. I'm always shocked when I hear people still following this ridiculous tradition. I think if men had to go through the inconvenience of a name change the tradition would fall by the wayside quickly.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

yes everyone IS named after some guy-welcome to reality
Posted by: free2disagree on Oct 26, 2009 7:25 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author says it like it is ridiculous, or is irrelevant, but it gets at the heart of why it doesn't matter for some women to change last names, and doesn't mean they are not a feminist if they do.

When you get married, it's NOT "my" name vs. "the man's" name.

It's your father's name, and his father's and his father's, that you didn't get to choose
VS.
your husband's name, and his father's and his father's, which you CAN choose if you want.
Other than that, either or both spouses can select a different name and legally change it, whether they are getting married or not.

So unless you are going with making up a new name, it's gonna be some guy's name.

Please do not assume that any woman who changes her name is a thoughtless stepford wife just following tradition and being "absorbed" into her husband's family.

Around here, I see plenty of stay-at-home moms, many with the same name as their husbands, who are fiercely progressive, and have the time to volunteer and help and care about social causes.
I have also seen a few of the "power job is everything, hand off the kids to day care at a few weeks old because we really NEED at least 250k of income a year to afford all our cars and jewelry and designer labels and credit card debt and mansion" kind of republican, who kept her name, but so what?

While this is definitely not always the case, I am trying to make the point that you cannot judge a book by its title alone. Making assumptions can alienate people who might be progressive in their actions and policies in life, which is a much better gauge of character, than something as superficial as a name.

Names are just tools, and whatever choice makes the most sense for someone is nobody else's business.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

rejinl
Posted by: rejinl on Oct 26, 2009 8:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few generations ago many women who married got married young, before having anything but a birth certificate in their name. Under those circumstances, taking the man's name may not have seemed like a big deal. But haven't things changed a lot since then? Now a name change often means changing a lot of records (driver’s license, bank records, credit cards, professional records, et c) and maybe divorcing yourself from your social connections and professional reputation. I don’t see why 50% of people think women (and only women) should be forced to go through this, especially in a society where 50% of marriages end in divorce anyway.
I kept my birth name when I married, and there has never been any confusion or inconvenience. (No, the mail carrier didn't refuse to deliver my mail. No, the school has never refused to let me pick up my child. My son does not ask why we have different last names - in fact our's is probably the least complex family he knows.) What has been confusing is when colleagues changed their names in the middle of the school year, esp. the one that divorced months later and went and changed back. Now That was confusing for the children.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why do you presume that the decision is yours alone?
Posted by: rickiey on Oct 26, 2009 9:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not your name. It's your name, your choice, obviously. It would be stupid to be otherwise.

I'm talking about the name of your children.

and if I'm the one giving birth, you can bet those kids are getting my last name as well.

Do you think the father of those kids should have no say in the matter?

What does that say about you and your understanding of what the term "equality" means?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: hyphenated names for kids Posted by: free2disagree
Let's read this blog post for what it is--a blog post, not an article
Posted by: ladyoracle on Oct 27, 2009 3:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That said, I think Alternet could dig a little harder and come up with a feminist of credibility to weigh in on this subject instead of syndicating a college co-ed. It's useful to know what a woman in her very, very early 20s is thinking, but think of ourselves at age 20 or 21. I said I'd never even get married back then, and I damned well meant it. Apparently I was also lying since now I am married. Kept my name, though. I am also a professor and have a publishing record, so maybe my experience would be more fertile and diverse for discussion, but I guess at least some dialogue on the subject is occurring.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Other countries other traditions
Posted by: Swatopluk on Oct 27, 2009 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Taking the husband's name (or that of his family) is by no means the only tradition. Iceland has, by law, no family names at all and in Spain it is traditional that a child has the family name of both father and mother (non- hyphenated double names). And the Bible seems to assume that a man originally joined the clan of his wife ("For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." Genesis 2:24).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why bother?
Posted by: Comrade Rutherford on Oct 27, 2009 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My wife and I married only for the insurance benefits (which we no longer have - no thanks to Bush and the GOP!).

We have been together for 13 years and now have three kids. We didn't see a need to get married, and we wouldn't be married today.

She definitely kept her last name, since changing names is such an archaic, barbaric practice. Our kids have my last name and her last name as their middle name.

What I can't stand are those stupid double-barrel pointlessly-hyphenated last names. How short-sighted! So what do these people that decide to double their last names do when they marry another double last name? Whose name gets dropped? And doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of double names?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why
Posted by: ProudLiberal1947 on Oct 27, 2009 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a woman chooses so okay however other then a complete absorption into the male partners identity and a total loss of her, own what purpose does it serve, the complete history of her family good, bad, indifferent or otherwise is completely lost on the woman's side.
One of my daughters was marries a few years back after a year or two of marriage my son in law asked me to talk to my daughter about submitting herself to his will, as he is the MAN and knows what is best. I looked at him quizzically and asked why, again his reply was I am the man I am in charge. I explained to him that I could NOT honor his request as my daughter (s) were reared to be individuals, they were taught they are to work with their partners as a example if one goes back to school discuss it look at the different problem then make a decision, the next time around it was the other partners turn. My daughters were taught a marriage is a partnership not a total submission and devotion to one persons will, needless to this man is past history my daughters are getting their BS degrees and they are quit content to have control of their own lives as a father i could not be more proud.This Anglo, Religious world wide thought that a woman is a possession and can not think or protect herself is antiquated, the person you choose and chooses you should have a RESPECT for themselves and their Partner, marriage for some reason needs a license that use to mean married today it means OWNERSHIP, check out the flimsy, excuses of the Christians, Jews, Muslims, buddhist any religion or society that relegates another to servitude is a religion or society of inferiority and needs to grow up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

rejinl
Posted by: rejinl on Oct 27, 2009 7:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm still having a hard time with the argument that you either have your father's name or or husband's, but in any case it's "some guy's name."
Um, I was not nameless (raised by wolves?) until my wedding day. I had years of history (records, documents, achievements, reputation) under my name. If you buy a house you think of it as your's before you even move in, but women should think of the name we had since birth as just our father's name?
Sorry, but choosing your name is not like choosing between two beat-up used cars, or two brands of soap: things that have no prior relationship to you but you need one so you just go ahead and flip a coin. No. One option has been part of your identity since birth, and the other is a part of someone else.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» However... Posted by: BlueTigress
I question this survey
Posted by: free2disagree on Oct 27, 2009 8:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know this just kept bugging me, because it was at such odds with what I see around me.

So I went to the NY Daily News article referenced, and it said that the survey was done by a survey group from Indiana University and had only an 815 person sample size, which is pretty small for an alleged national survey.

I found some more info about the study in an Elle magazine story online, which said that half the respondents were random U.S. and half from Indiana, and it was a phone survey.

From my college public opinion class, I recall that phone surveys are notorious for self sampling, that are a lot of people do not like them and hang up, and people who want to talk are more likely to hold extreme views.

Also, I found it interesting that the separate internet poll attached to the NYDN story (and already closed now, as the story is from August) reported 77 percent felt it was the woman's personal choice, with only single digits for "should always take man's name", "should be a law to take man's name" and "should always keep her name".

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Patriarchal
Posted by: RF on Oct 27, 2009 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it really is about choice!!!! I have been married THREE times -- and NEVER changed my name -- and it is ludicrous to watch women dragging around a train of names from former husbands -- confusion reigns. Two of my three sisters changed their names BACK to their original names after divorces -- and they rue the day they felt coerced to change it in the beginning. I think legislating women and forcing them to change their names would be a HORRIFYING step -- and I am astounded at all the young women who jump to take their husband's family name -- why? We only need one name -- and it is our moniker, our identity. We DO lose track of women and cannot find them years later due to name change. It is antiquated and it is a residue of patriarchal ownership of the wife -- and the religious admonition that a woman marries a man and they becomes ONE --- NOPE, it will always be two! I support choice -- even CHOOSING to wear burka, hijab, short shorts, bikinis -- whatever -- but it should always be a thoughtful choice? Hard to imagine why this practice of adopting a man's name in marriage continues unabated.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Patriarchal Posted by: luzmejor
Identity
Posted by: Kaija on Oct 27, 2009 9:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you "kids" out there realize that it took feminists in the late 1970s to put enough pressure on telephone companies to allow separate listings in their directories of married women's names, regardless of whether or not it was the same name or not as the "head of household." When they finally did start doing it, one had to pay a fee every month for the privilege.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Did I miss a mention of that old 50% chance?
Posted by: bearmom on Oct 27, 2009 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I married for the first time when I was 17. Yup. Young dumb preggers before the pill. I married again when I was 21 still young, not so dumb and definitely not preggers. What I found was that through the years having changed my last name twice was a true pain. College records have to be looked at with all three last names. Tax records, credit cards, passports college degrees. If I were to advise a young woman today, I would say,"Keep your name constant. Love the man but forget the hassles that come with name changes." Okay I always thought a girl in my hs probably would marry soon just to not have the last name of Outhouse but still changing one's last name is just an outdated hassle even when you are lovey-dovey-this-is-forever.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

stormy7
Posted by: STORMY78 on Oct 27, 2009 10:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hell No. I am my own person.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: stormy7 Posted by: luzmejor
Names are important
Posted by: talkingrrl on Oct 27, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's almost 2010 and women are still taking men's name and giving those names to their children !
I have never married and as an adult I did not want my father's name.I am not his property!I took a name that connected me to my matriarchal roots. Naming children is even a bigger issue ! When I had children I gave my son his father's last name but I gave my daughter my last name in hopes that she would follow my lead when naming her own children. Well, when she had a child her husband's family had a melt down when she wanted her son to have her last name. To resolve the issue the baby has both last names.
While feminism is about choice taking men's name is "dark age" thinking and shows how little progress we have made on changing sexism in relationships.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Choice
Posted by: Naumadd on Oct 27, 2009 5:58 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What an individual entering into a marriage with one or more others should do is what they WANT to do. No right to compel others in this matter can be reasonably justified. What an individual wishes to be called is a highly personal matter. They may, of course, consider cultural conventions, but it is wrong to compel them to conform to those conventions. Neither laws, cultures, groups nor individuals can have any rational argument for such demands.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

gilhowcan
Posted by: gilhowcan on Oct 27, 2009 10:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then they shouldn't complain that they don't have equal rights. Why is it important to doff any of your identity just because you marry? How about the men taking the wives' surname? With all the really important issues that need attention in this miserable world, we waste our time on this nonsense? Women of the world, stand up, put your feet down, or shut up! When you submit your very name, why are you complaining because you get paid less for the same jobs that your male counterparts do?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Personally, I enjoy the confusion:)
Posted by: eviltwit on Oct 28, 2009 12:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband didn't really care either way. I chose to change it. My married full name is Russian/French/Polish-Jewish. What people get is a short Indian woman:) Throws them off every time!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It seems so natural to keep your own name
Posted by: skyeapril on Oct 28, 2009 12:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been married for 37 years and kept my own name. My husband has never had a problem with that decision. I watched as my mother took a new last name each time she re-married and thought wow, so this is how you lose contact with people. They can never find you because you have a new identity.

IRS had the most problem with my decision. Each year I would receive a form letter stating that their records and my spouse's SSN did not match -- all because their computer system could not handle two different last names on a joint tax return. It did not seem to matter that I dutifully attached a note every year to our tax returns explaining that we were legally married, but that I had kept my maiden name. It took a decade or so for those form letters to stop.

I noted that when people who had hyphenated their name upon marrying then became divorced it was quite obvious because they suddenly dropped the hyphenation. That was too public of an invasion of privacy for me and reaffirmed that I had made the correct decision.

Our kids last names are hyphenated. Neither of them have married yet so I don't know what decision they will make. We will see.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

truelass
Posted by: Truelass on Oct 28, 2009 12:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My name is beautiful and I told my husband before we married tha I intended to keep it. He had no problem with that then or now and our children carry my husband's name. Oh and by the way are we not telling the world that we are in Afghanistan to help liberalize women from the yoke of male domination?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Both ways
Posted by: sswayze on Oct 28, 2009 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I changed my name in my first marriage (just easier), changed it back with my divorce, kept it with my second marriage. All in all, I prefer keeping the name on my birth certificate but understand those who don't do so.

An even more interesting question is - why do children automatically, and often by law, get the last name of their father? How about a more balance approach where girls get their mother's last name and boys get their father's last name?

NOW watch the nasty comments fly! :)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Both ways Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
I'm with author, the name thing is weirdly complicated
Posted by: snuggadee on Oct 28, 2009 11:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm glad the author wrote on this topic, I think its a worthy one with no final conclusions. And I have a hard time engaging people on it... friends who used to talk about it in our 20s are evasive of the topic in our 30s.

I agree that its fine if women want to change their name, and also fine if they don't. However, I don't think its appropriate to be annoyed that a woman chooses to change her name. I don't like the type of feminism that wants to create new chains for women "in her own best interests". Educate, inform of options, and let the woman choose, that's the beauty of women's equality to me.

I think feminist pushiness is like all other forms of pushiness: people feel that their own choices can't be valid unless they force everyone to choose the same exact thing. It's a replacement tyranny. Don't like this attitude.

Guess what? YOU can be right, *AND* THEY can be right. Doesn't have to be either/or. This is a perspective alot of folks just can't seem to get in life.

My personal choice: I'm keeping my name if/when I marry, because I am not a traditional or religious minded person, so I can't think of any appealing reason to change my name. I like it, I'm keeping it. Also, my bf and I are committed partners who probably won't marry, because we can't see the point. We're fine like we are, whether for the next 10 years or 50.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Names are important. Choose them wisely.
Posted by: Amy27605 on Oct 28, 2009 1:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been a fun discussion. I regret that I didn't have time to chime in earlier; fwiw here's my 2 cents now:

I was in my mid-20s, in the mid-1970s, when I met the first married woman I knew of who had kept her maiden name, Linda Jones (I'll call her). I thought that was the coolest thing. I had allowed my name to be changed, without giving it a thought, when I married at 19; I hated the name from the moment I first had to sign it and I changed it back the minute the ink was dry on the divorce decree 3 years later. I was sure that if I ever did marry again (I didn't think I would, and I haven't), I wouldn't change it again.

I lost track of Linda until about 10 years later when she turned up where I was working. I shouted, "Linda Jones, what a surprise!" at her; we caught up a bit, and then she said, "But it's not Linda Jones any more, it's Linda Brown." I was crestfallen; how could she? And she told me a story that brought tears to my eyes and informed my way of seeing a lot of feminist issues forever. She said she had never been close to her family of origin, never felt accepted or even liked by them. But from the time she first began to see Mr. Brown his family had welcomed her and made her feel like one of their own. So even though she was a mid- or late-30s professional woman with all the records baggage some here have commented about, when she decided to marry him it was the most natural thing in the world to her to take his--and his family's--name.

That's when I realized that my frequent dismay at some women's choices--name changing, concealing (or lying about) their ages, postponing careers for husband or children, whatever--is less about the choice itself than it is about choices made unthinkingly.

Names are important. A numerologist once explained to me why, so often, couples who have lived together successfully for years begin having problems soon after they marry--and the wife changes her name. The new name has a different numerological signature--a form of energy--that changes the energy dynamic in the relationship. It's not necessarily a negative change, but it is different. Consider that many successful public figures might never have become so using their birth names: Cary Grant, John Wayne, Marilyn Monroe, ....

Oh, and I ran into Linda Brown recently at a Progressive Democrats function; 20+ years later she is still blissfully married to Mr. Brown.

Peace.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

can we dsagree without put-downs?
Posted by: pitipua on Nov 4, 2009 3:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey hey hey, calm down! Look at the argument. The argument, the cold fact is, changing your name while your spouse doesn't IS sexist, whether you like it or not. If you "choose" the sexist solution for whatever reason, you have to be aware of what you're doing. If you can live with that, so be it. I can't. I never changed my name because I like it, thank you. I'm all for calling people on their crap. It is not browbeating, is confronting ourselves in order to become better human beings. This applies too to many so called "progressives" who act in not only sexist, but racist and eurocentrist ways too. You gotta walk the walk if you want to talk the talk.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]